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Cadet985
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:54 am

The Liberty incident was a tragedy for which Israel apologized and compensated the families of those killed.

But that has no bearing on this thread.

Marc
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 49):
You should read up on it yourself. Especially a little incident involving the USS Liberty. Then you might understand why Israel doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

I don't think it's fair to insinuate that the attack was deliberate. If anything, it appears to have been gross incompetence by the Israeli military. Wrong and inexcusable, but I wouldn't dive into conspiracy theories or anything or hold it over Israel's head after decades and decades
 
johns624
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 50):
But that has no bearing on this thread.

Why not? You brought up the 6 Days War. Doesn't it fit with your image of the upstanding, righteous Israel? We should have cut them loose right then. It wasn't an accident; it was deliberate. Everyone knows what a US Navy ship looks like, especially if you're in the military.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 48):
Sobhi51, I suggest you read up on the Six Day War

Why? I was involved in it, so i must know much better than you about this subject. Remember i am an old man as you said

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 48):
Since 1948, Israel hasn't lost one war against the Arabs. How can you even think they'll end up weak?

England at one time ruled the world, they don't anymore. The Nazi's conquered Europ then they lost badly, should i continue?

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 48):
I mean, do you know what the Israeli government does for Jews who move there from the diaspora? I'm not asking this as a smart ass question...I'm serious here. If you don't, I can enlighten you.

What are you trying to prove here?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:22 am

Well all this discussion of who was where first is very fascinating and I guess the acceptable answer depends on which side you support. But it should be evident even to blind Freddie that various people have lived there since time immemorial.

The argument that all the Palestinians came from Jordan is false. Although some people did migrate to growing towns in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, former Israeli President Yithak Ben-Zvi wrote that many (obviously not all or the majority) of the Palestinians were in fact descended from Samaritans who had undergone forced conversion to Islam. At one time or another, some had converted to Christianity. The number of actual Samaritans (i.e. those who retained their beliefs) is very small. If many Samaritans converted, is it not possible or probable that some Jews did likewise? So today we have a situation where one line of the Children of Israel are denying the inheritance of another line of the Children of Israel.

But this perambulation down memory lane doesn't actually get us anywhere. Uri Ariel's views are clear but are his views accepted by all? At the end of the day we are left with the question: will there be a two state solution or a single state? Given the present position it seems it will be the latter but at what cost and what will be its character?
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
Cadet985
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:24 am

If you were involved in it, then I don't need to remind you that Israel kicked your butt, and can easily do it again.  

Note: "You" refers to Arab countries.

Marc
 
johns624
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:27 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 51):
I don't think it's fair to insinuate that the attack was deliberate. If anything, it appears to have been gross incompetence by the Israeli military. Wrong and inexcusable, but I wouldn't dive into conspiracy theories or anything or hold it over Israel's head after decades and decades


I'm not insinuating anything. I came right out and said it. It was clear conditions and the ship wasn't disguised. They claim that they thought that it was an Egyptian ship but they had nothing remotely similar. If Israel's military was "grossly incompetent, they wouldn't have won the war so quickly. They didn't want anyone watching what they were doing.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:29 am

Quoting windy95 (Reply 44):
Get over it.

Not on your life will I get over it.

As long as Israel creates further instability in the region, I will continue to draw peoples attention TO THAT FACT !

Each and every time, Promise.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 44):
yawn....

Yeah, yawn all you like.

Its not going to go away !

Quoting windy95 (Reply 44):
Did you miss in 67

Yo gotta be kidding... 1967

Its now 2014 in case you hadn't noticed. A whole 50 years on from then !

And you guys are still continuing to steal land, evict innocent people from their houses. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Nothing more than common thieves, that's all !!

But in a way, its good that Israel carries on like this in front of the entire world to witness. It dose you no favors at all, in fact, it only makes more and more people question the legitimacy of Israels agenda, full stop.

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 50):
The Liberty incident was a tragedy for which Israel apologized and compensated the families of those killed.

Most certainly does...

Shows Israel for what it is !

Act now, consult later.......dumb, real dumb, especially towards your most ardent of supporters !

Oh, but they said sorry.... geeeee big deal !

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 53):
What are you trying to prove here?

This should be good ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 55):
If you were involved in it, then I don't need to remind you that Israel kicked your butt, and can easily do it again.

Remember your own History, when David defeated Goliath, strength is not everything, you are what 5-6 millions and surrounded by over a hundred, just beware and peace is the best path for Israel.

Remember the Yom Kippur war? Only the 24 hour air bridge from the USA and the satellite pictures saved your butt.

When i say your i mean Israel.

[Edited 2014-06-07 20:35:40]
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:33 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 55):
If you were involved in it, then I don't need to remind you that Israel kicked your butt, and can easily do it again.  

Wow, your arrogance is overwhelming. Let's hope such a conflict never happens, and I do think Israel would come on top if the conflict happened today, but to pretend that they'll have an advantage forever (therefore they can screw over anyone as they please in the meantime) is wishful thinking. They're a group of people, they're not invincible. I know it is written that they are "God's chosen people" but said book also said the world was made in 6 days and that is demonstrably false.

Just because they won in the past doesn't mean they'll win forever and ever. All that is moot, they should be doing the right thing regardless if they could womp their neighbors...
 
Cadet985
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:35 am

Israel is David in this instance. They can and will reign victorious.

Marc
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 60):
Israel is David in this instance. They can and will reign victorious.

Really, who is acting like Goliath this days?
Let me repeat myself

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 58):
Remember the Yom Kippur war? Only the 24 hour air bridge from the USA and the satellite pictures saved your butt.

When i say your i mean Israel.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:39 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 60):
Israel is David in this instance. They can and will reign victorious.

What if God randomly punishes Israel like he did more than once in the Torah?  

If you're gonna abandon reason and use an old book as your basis for your argument, at least open the book and read it. Israel didn't win every war they fought. Maybe God will punish them for the settlement building?
 
johns624
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 60):
Israel is David in this instance. They can and will reign victorious.

Not if they lose their international backing. Without arms and oil, they're goners.
 
windy95
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 52):
. It wasn't an accident; it was deliberate.
Quoting johns624 (Reply 56):
. I came right out and said it. It was clear conditions and the ship wasn't disguised. They claim that they thought that it was an Egyptian ship but they had nothing remotely similar

It was an accident. Read a book or two. No less than six US government investigations have come to the same conclusion.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 57):
As long as Israel creates further instability in the region, I will continue to draw peoples attention TO THAT FACT !

How about the instability created by all of the Arab countries? You are a one trick pony with a specific Axe to grind. Israel is one of the only stable countries yet you continue to call them out for creating instability just by existing.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 58):
Remember the Yom Kippur war? Only the 24 hour air bridge from the USA and the satellite pictures saved your butt

And the same could be said for the Arabs and what they received from the Russians. One again giving concessions and returning won land almost cost Israel in the Yom Kippur war. Why should they eve trust the Arabs again? How about the Arabs getting off their A$$ and abosrbing the so called refugees and then recognize Israel and get on with life. They will never do that because they agenda on the street in the ME will always be the destruction of Israel.
 
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johnboy
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:57 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...out-brutality-palestine-occupation


Good article describing Israeli soldiers' reactions to the awful treatment of the Palestinians.
 
johns624
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 64):
It was an accident. Read a book or two. No less than six US government investigations have come to the same conclusion.

I have read a book or two. The survivors have different recollections than the reports. It wouldn't be the first time that there was a government coverup.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 64):
No less than six US government investigations have come to the same conclusion.

I wonder if that's how you feel about Benghazi, considering that all investigations have led to the same conclusion...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 64):
How about the instability created by all of the Arab countries? You are a one trick pony with a specific Axe to grind. Israel is one of the only stable countries yet you continue to call them out for creating instability just by existing.

No one trick pony windy95

Just that Israel receives so much of the worlds support and attention, they receive assistance both military and financial from the West and the US. Israel shares confidential intelligence with most of these countries too and vis a versa. The West/US does not have enjoy this type of relationship with most other Arab nations.

We cant expect to expect anything from these countries (arab) then, why should we ?

So I guess I feel it should be held to a higher standard.

The sad thing is we don't, at least not yet

I mean, if Israel is going to benefit from this, they why shouldn't we hold them to a higher standard.

This has much to do with stability in the region. The failure of negotiations only creates more instability. Israel could stop throwing petrol on the fire for a start, by stopping the building of settlements in disputed regions.

But no, they continue down this path.....

Why Israel continues to do this when knows full well it only stirs the pot, God only knows ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:43 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 22):
A peace agreement with a terrorist government that does not even agree to your right to exist.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 44):
What about hundreds of tanks flowing out of the West Bank and the Golan in order to destroy the Jews?

I know you guys hate the liberal drivel in Haaretz, Gideon Levy, Neturei Karta et al, but the point most level-headed people make is true: if these people are going to be neighbors in perpetuity, the only solution is to treat them better than the PLO, Hamas, and others have. That is the key to lasting partnership and allegiance. Give people an economic toolbox to improve their standard of living, and even the feeble-minded will follow.

Settlements and increased defensive posture are not the answer, and will never get anywhere. Anyway how ridiculous does it look to continue the same policy for decades with no change in outcomes? Just like a drunk going to only half their scheduled AA meetings...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
victrola
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:09 pm

What about hundreds of tanks flowing out of the West Bank and the Golan in order to destroy the Jews? Did you miss that part? Did you miss in 67 the fact that Jordan controlled the West Bank and moved Tanks into the Zone in order to participate in the Arab leagues following of Nasser into war with Israel?


What about the part where up until the migration of aliens into this land (whatever you want to call it) was predominantly Arab for over 1000 years? Jews were a very small minority at this time. The Arabs, unfortunately were under the domination of the Turks at the time of this migration and had no say in the matter.
 
windy95
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 69):
the only solution is to treat them better than the PLO, Hamas, and others have

Arabs in Israel are far better off than Arabs underPalestinian Authority or Hamas control. So the do what you are saying here. Israeli Arabs would not trade their position with their relatives on the other side of the border.

Quoting victrola (Reply 70):
What about the part where up until the migration of aliens into this land (whatever you want to call it) was predominantly Arab for over 1000 years? Jews were a very small minority at this time. The Arabs, unfortunately were under the domination of the Turks at the time of this migration and had no say in the matter.

People have migrated across this planet since the beginning of time. The Saudis, Turks, Egytians and the Franks all have migrated to and controlled this area. If the land that is occupied by Israel and the jewish population was at this time controlled or occupied by Egypt or Jordan there never would of been a Palestinain crisis or the call for a Palestinian homeland. This only persist because it is a non Muslim entity controlling the land. If Jordan, Syria and Egypt had won no Arab countriy or leader would be calling for the destruction of these other countries occupying "Palestine".
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 71):
If the land that is occupied by Israel and the jewish population was at this time controlled or occupied by Egypt or Jordan there never would of been a Palestinain crisis or the call for a Palestinian homeland. This only persist because it is a non Muslim entity controlling the land. If Jordan, Syria and Egypt had won no Arab countriy or leader would be calling for the destruction of these other countries occupying "Palestine".

Wow, you have too many (if) here. Why would any Arab country wants too occupy Palestine? Israel wanted this piece of land for religious reasons only, granted, but they did not have to kick the original inhabitants out of there land and homes to make space for new immigrants.
BTW as you are in Israel do the Knesset still have the " From the Euphrate to the Nile thats your land Israel" slogan on the wall?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 70):
in 67 the fact that Jordan controlled the West Bank and moved Tanks into the Zone in order to participate in the Arab leagues following of Nasser into war with Israel?

How does this excuse Israel from its wrong actions?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 71):
Arabs in Israel are far better off than Arabs underPalestinian Authority or Hamas control.

How does this excuse Israel from its wrong actions?


Just a bit of advice, when your justification for something is "well the other side is worse," you probably need to rethink you're flawed argument. It's isn't convincing us. I'm sure you both hate it when people respond to your criticisms about Democrats by saying "well the Republicans were/are worse." What kind of argument is that?! Don't do the same thing with Israel
 
Alfons
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 5):
Yeah, Israel again.

The only country where the housing minister is involved in, uh, foreign relations.


David

I know a crapload of Swiss ministers who push themselves year-in year-out into foreign relationship themes.  
Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
an you believe it !

Israel unveiled the plans yesterday in what housing minister Uri Ariel described as a......

...and the show must go on, by TheCommodore, on a.net.  

Enjoy guys, won't disturb your hobbies.

Regards,
Alfons
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:58 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 71):
Arabs in Israel are far better off than Arabs underPalestinian Authority or Hamas control. So the do what you are saying here. Israeli Arabs would not trade their position with their relatives on the other side of the border.

People remember not what you say or do, but how you make them feel. They are still used as a political football and have significant economic disadvantages. The onus is on Israel to set the example and make waves in all this mess.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:13 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 74):
.and the show must go on, by TheCommodore, on a.net.  

Enjoy guys, won't disturb your hobbies.

What's wrong with that? It's an open forum, and as long as we respect the rules, i see nothing against expressing your feeling.
There is other forums if some here do not like a posting, or they can start a new topic.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting Alfons (Reply 74):
...and the show must go on, by TheCommodore, on a.net.

Yes it must go on....

We are currently looking for new performers, and I think you'd be a great performer, come and join the show ?

We'd love to welcome you on board... excuse the pun !

Quoting Alfons (Reply 74):
Enjoy guys, won't disturb your hobbies.

Oh, don't be a party pooper, come join the fun  
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 75):
People remember not what you say or do, but how you make them feel.

  
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
BestWestern
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:09 pm

Quoting daviation (Reply 38):
Of course, I retired at 55 because I was so successful in my career that I can simply spend my money now and travel the world. So I'm not sure I really need a lecture from someone younger than my kids.

I wish I was as successful as you.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
victrola
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:01 pm

Whether Israel is justified in settling the West Bank or not does not address the main issue now. There are now so many settlements scattered over this territory that a 2 state solution is not going to happen. The Jews and Arabs are now stuck with each other.

Are you going to give them full Israeli citizenship with all the rights and obligations that entails? I'm looking forward to see how many deputies Hamas will manage get elected to the Kenesset. If Jews as citizens of Israel are allowed to move to the West Bank, are Palestinian residents of the West Bank, going to be allowed to move to Tel Aviv? What if, the Arabs become the majority?

I have yet to see a defender of Israel's settlement program on this website answer these questions. I suspect because they have never given this any thought. The Israelis don't have the guts to say what they plan to do about this.
 
daviation
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 78):
I wish I was as successful as you.

Save and invest!

Quoting victrola (Reply 79):
The Israelis don't have the guts to say what they plan to do about this.

I don't think it's a matter of guts. The people and government of Israel are not one homogenous block that believes in any hardcore principle. You have the left-wing Meretz Party and others, and the right-wing parties, and many in-between. You have people like Minister Ariel who wants to annex the West Bank, while you have Minister Livni who wants to have a peace agreement.

One thing I do know, however, is that most of the Israeli Jews want to have a peace accord, but they're afraid from bitter experience that if they give up their security, they may pay the ultimate price.

That's my observation from being there each year and having family there. I have nothing else to say, and I won't get into a pissing match.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 71):
Arabs in Israel are far better off than Arabs underPalestinian Authority or Hamas control.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 71):
Israeli Arabs would not trade their position with their relatives on the other side of the border.

Yes. That's what they always tell me. I have yet to meet an Arab in Israel that is considering moving to a traditionally Arab country.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 69):
Give people an economic toolbox to improve their standard of living, and even the feeble-minded will follow.

I stood on a hill in Sderot and looked across at the vast and numerous greenhouses Israel built for the Palestinian Arabs so that they could grow fruits and vegetables in large quantities. That way they would have their own food supply and the advantage of doing business with the vast European produce market.

They were all destroyed because "Jews" built them.
You can do Google Earth and see them. An ocean of modern greenhouses----smashed and destroyed.
So much for the "economic toolbox" theory.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting daviation (Reply 80):
but they're afraid from bitter experience that if they give up their security, they may pay the ultimate price.

And I don't blame them for being scared, they absolutely should be. If a peace treaty with the Palestinians was reached tomorrow I don't doubt there would still be violence. This conflict will take decades to subside even if we "ended" it now

I do think there is a happy balance between Israel holding select pieces of strategic land for defense and doing nothing

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 81):
Yes. That's what they always tell me. I have yet to meet an Arab in Israel that is considering moving to a traditionally Arab country.
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 81):
numerous greenhouses Israel built for the Palestinian Arabs so that they could grow fruits and vegetables in large quantities. That way they would have their own food supply and the advantage of doing business with the vast European produce market.

Yes, we get it, Israeli Arabs enjoy many things their brethern don't. How does that excuse any wrongs Israel does? Once again, you are ignoring a wrong and either going on about how the Arabs are worse or how Israel does something nice in another area so it must somehow even out. No. A wrong is a wrong is a wrong
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 78):
I wish I was as successful as you.

I dont !

Quoting daviation (Reply 80):
The people and government of Israel are not one homogenous block that believes in any hardcore principle.

Really ?

You guys are doing a pretty good job of suppressing a race of people, despite you assertions .

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 81):
I stood on a hill in Sderot and looked across at the vast and numerous greenhouses Israel built for the Palestinian Arabs so that they could grow fruits and vegetables in large quantities. That way they would have their own food supply and the advantage of doing business with the vast European produce market.

        

We have been over this before. Don't you ever learn ?

Sure the Israelis left them, but as it turns out, due to the numerous restrictions on imports placed on the Palestinians by Israel, these so called "greenhouses" were not viable for them to operate. Even things like plastic tubing has restrictions. This is needed to operate the greenhouse for irrigation.... no water, no vegetables I guess ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 81):
They were all destroyed because "Jews" built them.

They were build on stolen land !

Israel stole that land. So why should the Palestinians accept anything from Israel, whether its been "left" behind or not ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
Alfons
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 82):
Yes, we get it, Israeli Arabs enjoy many things their brethern don't. How does that excuse any wrongs Israel does? Once again, you are ignoring a wrong and either going on about how the Arabs are worse or how Israel does something nice in another area so it must somehow even out. No. A wrong is a wrong is a wrong

Tell me, what's bothering you more; the wrong that Israel is doing, or the right that it's doing?

@TheCommodore
sorry, had to let this one out.  
 
daviation
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 83):
I dont !

And it appears that you aren't very successful. So your wish came true.
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daviation
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RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 82):
I do think there is a happy balance between Israel holding select pieces of strategic land for defense and doing nothing

I can certainly agree with that. And that's what successive peace frameworks have tried to achieve. And with Oslo, Clinton, and Wye, they have come close. So there is always hope.
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DeltaMD90
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 84):
Tell me, what's bothering you more; the wrong that Israel is doing, or the right that it's doing?

The wrong that Israel is doing... What kind of question is that??? Are you one of those people who think those against Israel must have some irrational beef against them and want them to fail and are upset when they do well? Give me a break.

I fully support Israel's right to exist. I believe that they should be able to keep some buffer as defense since they are not well liked in that region. I am generally against the US getting involved in foreign conflicts, but I could see myself supporting Israel in the event of another invasion. Although I disagree with some of their policies, I do commend them for being the only democracy in that region. I don't think the Israelis are bad people (nor the majority of Palestinians even if they make boneheaded moves.)

So don't give me that "I'm mad that Israel is successful" crap. What a cop out from real debating
 
victrola
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:37 pm

Sti

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 75):
Arabs in Israel are far better off than Arabs under Palestinian Authority or Hamas control. So the do what you are saying here. Israeli Arabs would not trade their position with their relatives on the other side of the border.

I used to hear a similar argument by White South Africans concerning Blacks during Apartheid.

So how is Israel going to handle the Arab population of Judea and Samaria? You defenders of Israel have yet to answer this question.

Will you set up an Apartheid state?
Will you expel the Arab population?
Will you exterminate the Arab population?
Will you give the Arab population full rights as Israeli citizens?

If Israel wants to keep the land, it can't avoid answering these questions.
 
Alfons
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:17 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 87):
The wrong that Israel is doing... What kind of question is that??? Are you one of those people who think those against Israel must have some irrational beef against them and want them to fail and are upset when they do well? Give me a break.

I fully support Israel's right to exist. I believe that they should be able to keep some buffer as defense since they are not well liked in that region. I am generally against the US getting involved in foreign conflicts, but I could see myself supporting Israel in the event of another invasion. Although I disagree with some of their policies, I do commend them for being the only democracy in that region. I don't think the Israelis are bad people (nor the majority of Palestinians even if they make boneheaded moves.)

So don't give me that "I'm mad that Israel is successful" crap. What a cop out from real debating

With the little difference, that "real debates" normally conclude to some added-value insights and some mind changer.

When it's coming to Israel, in a bulletin board, there's no constructive debate. It's mostly monologues from those ones who have stone-set (does that expression exist?) opinions, against monologues from other stone-set opinion ones. Because the ones you could still influence as they don't know yet where to go, you won't find them here as they are not interested.

So if you think my comment was cop-out (what does that mean anyway), I will tell you it fits to here. It's a 2000 year old issue, not since 1948. Ask your grandfather, or the grandfather of anyone else who lived before '48.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 87):
Are you one of those people who think those against Israel must have some irrational beef against

Oh, yes I do. As much like the amount of energy, and time of a day, being spent here to notify everybody about his/her disagreement to some policies of a single country, as you say.

But let's continue with the "debate".

Regards,
Alfons
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:39 am

Quoting Alfons (Reply 89):
With the little difference, that "real debates" normally conclude to some added-value insights and some mind changer.

When it's coming to Israel, in a bulletin board, there's no constructive debate. It's mostly monologues from those ones who have stone-set (does that expression exist?) opinions, against monologues from other stone-set opinion ones. Because the ones you could still influence as they don't know yet where to go, you won't find them here as they are not interested.

Speak for yourself. I've changed my mind on this issue. I don't know what your experience in debates is but from almost all the ones I've seen, change is very slow. It takes a while and a lot of debates to change positions

Just 4 years ago I was asking around and seeing if I could volunteer (as an American) to serve for the IDF for a while (as an allied soldier, no such program exists I found out, unless I missed something.) So it's not like my positions are concrete

Quoting Alfons (Reply 89):
So if you think my comment was cop-out (what does that mean anyway)

By addressing my arguments as "oh you must be mad that Israel is doing well at something"

Quoting Alfons (Reply 89):
I will tell you it fits to here. It's a 2000 year old issue, not since 1948. Ask your grandfather, or the grandfather of anyone else who lived before '48.

Er ok?

Quoting Alfons (Reply 89):
Oh, yes I do. As much like the amount of energy, and time of a day, being spent here to notify everybody about his/her disagreement to some policies of a single country, as you say.

But let's continue with the "debate".

How can we continue with the debate if you assume that I have some irrational hatred of Israel? It's not like I foam at the mouth all day thinking about it. There are about 20 topics in non-av about it (none started by me) and as much as I'd like to say screw it and ignore them, I don't want to close my mind off and stop listening to other views. I don't want to stop putting my views out there if it can help something.

And yes, as an American, I am more inclined to talk about Israel. A HUGE percentage of foreign aid (paid partially by my tax dollars) goes to Israel, Israel is strongly supported (less so these days) by the US, and terrorist groups target the US (including 9/11) using US' support for Israel as A reason (not THE sole reason) for the attacks. So yeah, Israel is not just some random country I just picked out of the blue.

So I don't know what to tell you. I don't hate Israel or Jews, I don't even see myself as being unfair to them. I already listed a bunch of things I believe about Israel a couple posts up, I just see them as *gasp* not perfect and doing things that don't help the peace process (and it's hard for me to believe that ANYONE thinks that building more settlements helps the situation out whether you think it's legal/right or not.) If you don't believe that I don't have some hatred for them, well, I guess we're done. IDK what to say if you just refuse to believe me, there's nothing I can say. Hopefully this helps you understand my views
 
daviation
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 90):
I was asking around and seeing if I could volunteer (as an American) to serve for the IDF for a while (as an allied soldier, no such program exists I found out, unless I missed something.)

Yeah, you missed something. It's called the Lone Soldiers Program, and volunteers come from around the world (although mostly from America, Canada, and Australia) to volunteer in the IDF. How could you have missed that?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 90):
A HUGE percentage of foreign aid (paid partially by my tax dollars) goes to Israel

Yes, Israel receives a lot of U.S. aid, although nearly all of it comes right back to the U.S. But aid to Israel pales in comparison to the 28,000 troops we have stationed in Korea, or the investment America has made in NATO, which enables many Europeans to enjoy support from their governments that would otherwise go to the military.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 90):
terrorist groups target the US (including 9/11) using US' support for Israel

It's hard to take you seriously after that statement. Muslim terrorists blow up places all over the world. Did terrorists attack London or Madrid or 100 other places because of their support for Israel? It's a red herring.

DeltaMD90, I have read your comments with some interest because they are not the usual diatribes that one reads here. But your comments above are just bumper stickers. As much as I'm hooked on some of these threads, I have to train myself to not look because there is nothing here.
PlaneFlown:717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC8,DC9,DC10,L1011,F100,A300,319,320,321,330,340,CRJ,ERJ,E190,Av85,DH8,Beaver,ATR
 
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Asturias
Posts: 1977
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:00 am

I salute the brave settlers who are willing to risk their lives for the future of Israel.
Tonight we fly
 
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SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:18 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 92):

I salute the brave settlers who are willing to risk their lives for the future of Israel.

It is thieves and not brave.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting daviation (Reply 85):
So your wish came true.

He/she/it is insignificant anyway.   

Quoting Alfons (Reply 89):
you won't find them here as they are not interested.

   Yeah. This seems to be the amature propagandists preferred blog. 
Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
How could you have missed that?

Oh, he has a habit of "missing" things. 
Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
But aid to Israel pales in comparison to the 28,000 troops we have stationed in Korea, or the investment America has made in NATO, which enables many Europeans to enjoy support from their governments that would otherwise go to the military.

  

Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
t's hard to take you seriously after that statement

I used to. Not any more. He has shown his true colors many times now. 
Quoting Asturias (Reply 92):
I salute the brave settlers who are willing to risk their lives for the future of Israel.

  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
TheCommodore
Topic Author
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting daviation (Reply 85):
So your wish came true.

Did actually, big time

I won $3,5 million 29 years ago now, haven't worked a day since then, and its done very nicely thank you !

Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
But aid to Israel pales in comparison to the 28,000 troops we have stationed in Korea, or the investment America has made in NATO, which enables many Europeans to enjoy support from their governments that would otherwise go to the military.

That's right.... digress from the real issue !

Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
I have read your comments with some interest because they are not the usual diatribes that one reads here.

Oh, you mean like your blinded comments ?

Quoting daviation (Reply 91):
As much as I'm hooked on some of these threads, I have to train myself to not look because there is nothing here.

So.... Why are you ?  
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 94):
This seems to be the amature propagandists preferred blog.

And one that you subscribe too  
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 94):
He has shown his true colors many times now.

Funny, I was just thinking that about you earlier on today !

BTW

Did you and daviation go to the same propagandists school by any chance, only you sing from the same book....?

[Edited 2014-06-10 22:17:39]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
PhilBy
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:47 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 87):
I believe that they should be able to keep some buffer as defense since they are not well liked in that region.

I think that the IDF should withdraw from the disputed territory and hand policing it to the UN. Give the job to the Chinese. They'd love to have a foothold in the region and have no historical preference or dispute with either party - the ideal disinterested arbiters. They also wouldn't be averse to firm policing of either party where needed.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 92):
I salute the brave settlers who are willing to risk their lives for the future of Israel.

I question their motivation for moving to a territory that is under dispute.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4524
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:59 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 41):
As the posting was deleted, i can't say who did write it but i am sure you can guess who

How charming of him. Who would have thought that the one who plays the race card the most actually has strong racist tendencies. I Imagine that there would be quite the firestorm if any of us who voice criticisms of Israel said the same about Israelis. A certain someone might even start a thread about it.  Wow!
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 43):
PM sent. Obviously can't repost them but I saved a copy in case anyone wants to see it

Cheers.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 81):
I stood on a hill in Sderot and looked across at the vast and numerous greenhouses Israel built for the Palestinian Arabs so that they could grow fruits and vegetables in large quantities. That way they would have their own food supply and the advantage of doing business with the vast European produce market.

They were all destroyed because "Jews" built them.
You can do Google Earth and see them. An ocean of modern greenhouses----smashed and destroyed.

      We've debunked this in three different threads over the last several weeks! And you miss the bit about where 2,500 homes in the Gaza strip were demolished during Israel's withdrawal because some people can't bear the thought of having a dirty Arab living in their former home.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3136516,00.html

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 90):
I've changed my mind on this issue.


Ditto.
First to fly the 787-9
 
victrola
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 88):

Will you set up an Apartheid state?
Will you expel the Arab population?
Will you exterminate the Arab population?
Will you give the Arab population full rights as Israeli citizens?

If Israel wants to keep the land, it can't avoid answering these questions

I see that the proponents of Israeli expansion still have not come up with a response to these questions. You may be able to avoid them on this website, but Israel can't avoid them in the real world.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Israel To Build 1,500 West Bank Homes

Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 97):
because some people can't bear the thought of having a dirty Arab living in their former home.

Is that how YOU feel?
Because I would have to read some sort of reliable source before I believed a statement like that.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 97):
debunked this in three different threads over the last several weeks

If it's been "debunked" prove it.
If it is just YOUR opinion or the opinions of others at least be honest enough to admit it. 
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"

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