Jews Expelled From Muslim Countries

zrs70 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:51 pm

Over 900,000, between 1920 and 1970. Staggering statistics. Amazing to read about the boycotts, denationalization, and pogroms.

http://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsio...ngoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/

Kiwirob · Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:53 pm

How many Palestinian refugees are there?

DeltaMD90 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:07 pm

Before commenting, this is obviously bad. Indefensible.

What I have a problem with most of these articles is that it always ties it to the Israel-Palestine conflict. That wouldn't be bad if it was highlighting the plight of these discriminated Jews, but it always appears to try and distract from the conflict or justify it but waving other injustices.

The correct thing to do, IMO, is to speak out against the Jews being discriminated against but not use that as a pass in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I don't see it ok for Israel to do something bad as long as enough Jews have been discriminated against elsewhere, I'm gonna condemn any bad action when I see it.

Just my 2c

zrs70 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
What I have a problem with most of these articles is that it always ties it to the Israel-Palestine conflict. That wouldn't be bad if it was highlighting the plight of these discriminated Jews, but it always appears to try and distract from the conflict or justify it but waving other injustices.

Agreed. But I do think seeing the bigger picture is always important. So many posters wax poetic about how Israel's treatment of the Palestians is equal to the worst offenders in history.

No one ever asks about what happened to Jews in Muslim countries.

One does not justify the other. But we can't pretend that the jewish communuties of the Middle East were safe in the countries where their families had lived for centuries.

n229nw · Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Before commenting, this is obviously bad. Indefensible.

What I have a problem with most of these articles is that it always ties it to the Israel-Palestine conflict. That wouldn't be bad if it was highlighting the plight of these discriminated Jews, but it always appears to try and distract from the conflict or justify it but waving other injustices.

The correct thing to do, IMO, is to speak out against the Jews being discriminated against but not use that as a pass in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I don't see it ok for Israel to do something bad as long as enough Jews have been discriminated against elsewhere, I'm gonna condemn any bad action when I see it.

This sums it up perfectly.

What I don't like is that these types of threads are only posted or campaigns only started by people whose primary goal seems to be claiming that no one can criticize Israeli policy.

No whatabouterry. Condemn atrocities in the past (and by the way nearly the same number of Jews were driven out of Palestine in 1948--and while some of them left because of Arab propaganda, many, many, were simply forced out violently)--but let us all take care of our own dirty laundry in the present.

zrs70 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:40 pm

No problem criticizing Israel. And no problem looking at things in proportion.

SOBHI51 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:42 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):

Over 900,000, between 1920 and 1970

Of course the study forgot to mention how many of those 900,000, immigrated to the promised land by there own free will.

While i was living in Egypt, i did have a couple of Jewish friends in my classroom for 5 years till 1967, there parents did have good job, they must as the school we attended did have a high fees, and i never heard they were discriminated against. One of them did immigrate to Israel after 1967 via France, the other i lost contact with since.

Cadet985 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:43 pm

So can someone tell me why many countries were allowed to expel Jews, but Israel can't expel the Muslims? What's good for one...

Marc

einsteinboricua · Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 14):
So can someone tell me why many countries were allowed to expel Jews, but Israel can't expel the Muslims? What's good for one...

For one thing, the land Israel is in was supposed to be equally split between a Jewish state and an Arab state. The fact that Israel is now taking more land meant for the Arab state doesn't help its cause. Give back the land and give the Arabs their side. Then talk about expelling Muslims all they want.

BTW, if your argument is that Israel existed long before Palestine, I'm guessing Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt have to give up land too? After all, those are areas that belonged to an ancient Israel...

Cadet985 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:38 pm

That's hysterical. I'm seriously laughing. There was never a country of Palestine.

Marc

mariner · Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 21):
That's hysterical. I'm seriously laughing. There was never a country of Palestine.

So I wasn't born anywhere?

mariner

SOBHI51 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 24):
I am a Zionist and will defend Israel from Muslims/Arabs at all costs.

Are you okay with Arab Christians? Just curious.
Your problem is you are mixing up a political movement similar to communism with a religion, i am sure that the Jewish religion does not allow people to steal lands and homes from others under any pretext.

Cadet985 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:09 pm

Any Arab who does not seek to attack Israel is ok. Any Muslim that claims to not be anti-Israel/antisemitic is highly suspicious.

mariner · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 24):
I am a Zionist and will defend Israel from Muslims/Arabs at all costs.

And obviously from people who are neither Arab nor Muslim but who were born in Palestine.

I may be one of the last of my kind, but it is both illogical and intemperate to deny my existence.

mariner

Scorpio · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:19 pm

cadet, you're painting one seriously ugly picture of yourself here, and you're not helping your cause one bit - quite the contrary...

SOBHI51 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 28):
Any Muslim that claims to not be anti-Israel/antisemitic is highly suspicious.

I am a Muslim and i am only anti Israeli policies but for sure not antisemitic, so where do i stand in your opinion.

[Edited 2014-06-06 15:29:42]

skyservice_330 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:27 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 28):
Any Muslim that claims to not be anti-Israel/antisemitic is highly suspicious.

So, to turn that around, are you saying you believe all Muslims hold anti-Israel/anti-semitic views and, therefore, any Muslim that claims to not hold them is suspicious?

mham001 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
I am a Muslim and i am only anti Israeli policies but for sure not antisemitic,

But do you support your government and their policies and how many of those policies are anti-Semitic?

SOBHI51 · Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 35):
But do you support your government and their policies and how many of those policies are anti-Semitic?

Really? Lets see few years ago King Abdullah (crown prince at the time) announced a peace plan, in the understanding that things will be discussed in negotiations, the strange thing is that Israel did not have the courtesy of a response. Now could you stop with this anti-Semitic accusations, and please remember we are Semitic also.

Kiwirob · Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
and please remember we are Semitic also.

I'm sure there will be a number of members choking on this

zrs70 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
Currently I'm holding Gill's Imperial Geography from 1894 on my hand, it shows a map of Palestine, not a map of Israel although the name is mentioned there. It also says this: "Palestine is now inhabitated by the Arabs"

Who was the leader (inherited, elected, or otherwise)?

AyostoLeon · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:02 am

Yes, it is sad that for reasons of political expedience groups are set apart and discriminated against, to the point of violence against them. While it is often argued that the expulsion of Jews from the Arabian peninsula, through northern Africa and into the Maghreb were a response to the creation of Israel, that is not so. It was a part of a pan-Arab nationalism, although the scale may have varied from individual country to country. In some instances, Jews leaving one Arab state did not automatically move to Israel, hoping to re-establish themselves in a neighbouring country where they may have had relatives or connections to the local community.

I met such a person attending a wedding in Sun City. We are of a similar age. Like me she was born in Tripoli before her family moved to Alexandria for a few years, until it became impossible to remain there. Today she lives in Tel Aviv. Yet the heartening thing is that despite her experiences, she does not hate the people of those countries. She is able to recognise that the actions of governments are not necessarily the actions of people. Even where some people can be whipped into a frenzy, she says, there is good and bad in every country. A sensible woman.

YYZatcboy · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 40):
Who was the leader (inherited, elected, or otherwise)?

The Ottoman Empire

Quote

In 1832 the region was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840 Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The turbulent period of Egyptian rule experienced two major revolts (the 1834 Arab Peasants revolt and 1838 Druze revolt) and a significant demographic change in coastal areas, populated by Egyptian Arab peasants and former soldiers of Ali. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration and the revival of the Hebrew language. Jewish immigration throughout the century boosted relatively large Jewish concentrations in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Jaffa.[4] The British government issued the pro-Zionist Balfour Declaration of 1917 during World War I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

Second Source:

In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan (see map above. For earlier history of the term see article). From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.

http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.php

mham001 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Really? Lets see few years ago King Abdullah (crown prince at the time) announced a peace plan, in the understanding that things will be discussed in negotiations, the strange thing is that Israel did not have the courtesy of a response.

What "things in negotiation" are you talking about?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Now could you stop with this anti-Semitic accusations, and please remember we are Semitic also.

I'm not surprised by that as it is thought your King has Jewish roots, but why is it then your Kingdom will not allow known Jews in the country?

[Edited 2014-06-06 18:31:00]

mariner · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:33 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 42):
Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.

And under the Sykes-Picot agreement between Britain and France in 1916, the area called Palestine was to become the eventual homeland of the Jewish people, as defined by the Balfour Declaration:

In which case, present day Israel would have incorporated both Israel and the West Bank, called the "International Zone" on the map to indicate that it was not under British or French control or influence.

mariner

[Edited 2014-06-06 18:36:49]

mham001 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:35 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):

Those Europeans do know how to create a long term mess, don't they?

AyostoLeon · Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:36 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 45):

They have had plenty of time to do so. The US is still in its infancy by comparison but don't worry. It's catching up fairly rapidly.

On a serious note, discussions of what country existed prior to 1948 miss the point. After all , prior to 1948 neither Israel nor Palestine existed as independent and sovereign states. The pertinent fact is that the area has been inhabited since time immemorial. Yes, Arabs lived there, yes Jews lived there, yes there were observers of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. This was why at one stage there was a proposal that Jerusalem be an international city that was neither part of a Jewish state nor of an Arab state. But in all the discussions prior to 1948, the views of the people who lived in the area were largely ignored.

A democratic state was created on the basis of denying democracy. Neither the British nor the Jewish Agency (until 1929 known as the Palestine Zionist Executive) would countenance the notion of self determination based on one man one vote. We had the peculiar position where one of the principals espoused by those who established the League of Nations was openly contradicted by the terms of the Mandate. How could it have been otherwise? Few, if any, other modern states were originally founded on the principals of democracy.

Mir · Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I don't see it ok for Israel to do something bad as long as enough Jews have been discriminated against elsewhere,

Because if Israel had license to do bad things in proportion to bad things that have been done to the Jews, that would be a very large license.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 3):
But we can't pretend that the jewish communuties of the Middle East were safe in the countries where their families had lived for centuries.

No we can't. Which is why Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is so strange. One would think that Jews, of all people, would know what it feels like to be second class citizens and thus would not seek to impose that upon their neighbors.

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 7):
So can someone tell me why many countries were allowed to expel Jews, but Israel can't expel the Muslims? What's good for one...

...is not good for the other. It was a different world from 1920 to 1970 - countries didn't get involved in other countries' affairs nearly as much. If it didn't threaten the US or have anything to do with the spread of Soviet influence the US wasn't going to do a thing about it - after all, we let Germany run all over Europe during World War II and it wasn't until we actually got attacked ourselves that we decided to take a side. The world has changed now, and it's very doubtful any country would be able to get away with expelling a group of any religion or ethnicity without someone raising hell about it.

-Mir

SOBHI51 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:04 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
What "things in negotiation" are you talking about?

Politics 101, whenever you want to start any negotiations you come in with the highest demands then you start negotiating.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
I'm not surprised by that as it is thought your King has Jewish roots,

We are all from the same roots being Semitic.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
but why is it then your Kingdom will not allow known Jews in the country?

Define known Jews, please.

einsteinboricua · Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Really? Lets see few years ago King Abdullah (crown prince at the time) announced a peace plan, in the understanding that things will be discussed in negotiations, the strange thing is that Israel did not have the courtesy of a response.

What "things in negotiation" are you talking about?

Le sigh...

Quote:

BEIRUT, March 28 (AFP) - The official translation of the Saudi-proposed Arab peace initiative adopted at the annual Arab summit in Beirut, as published on the Arab League internet site:
The Arab Peace Initiative
The Council of the League of Arab States at the Summit Level, at its 14th Ordinary Session,

- Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab Countries, to be achieved in accordance with International Legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli Government.

- Having listened to the statement made by His Royal Highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in which his Highness presented his Initiative, calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land for peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian State, with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel.

- Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1- Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2- Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

a. Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights to the lines of June 4, 1967 as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

b. Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian Refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

c. The acceptance of the establishment of a Sovereign Independent Palestinian State on the Palestinian territories occupied since the 4th of June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab Countries affirm the following:

a. Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

b. Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the Government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab Countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighborliness and provide future generations with security, stability, and prosperity.

6. Invites the International Community and all countries and Organizations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the Chairman of the Summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the Secretary General of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim States and the European Union.

Google does wonders when you try it...

It's interesting though...people justify Israel's land taking because Arabs rejected the Partition Plan. Does it mean that because Israel has not accepted this it's not interested in peace?

Caryjack · Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:57 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 29):
UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

From UN # 194: "Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date,"

This is the right to return clause which some Israels say would destroy their country.

PhilBy · Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
Those Europeans do know how to create a long term mess, don't they?

Yep. Look what we did in the 'new world'.

sfbdude · Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:53 am

Quote:
Quoting cadet985 (Reply 24):
I am a Zionist and will defend Israel from Muslims/Arabs at all costs.

A self admitted terrorist and racist, how cute. With all the garbage you post and get away with, it makes me wonder how you're still a member here.

Cadet985 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
and it wasn't until we actually got attacked ourselves that we decided to take a side.

That's a complicated one, Mir. We did have the Flying Tigers - although officially they weren't part of the US military. We were also sending supplies to the British. Both of these were well before 7 December 1941.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 28):
Define known Jews, please.

I'm a known Jew. All you have to do is look at my passport. While religion isn't listed, my middle and last names are both Jewish, and five Israeli entry/exit stamps would only exacerbate that.

If I wanted to apply for a job in Saudi Arabia, or any Arab country, or even visit Dubai (which in all honesty is something I would like to do), my last name would arouse suspicion, and although I carry a US passport, UAE customs (or whatever the agency is called) would see my Israeli stamps and not admit me.

Someone from an Arab country on the other hand (excluding Jordan and Egypt) is free to enter Israel. Certainly Israeli Customs would have a lot of questions for them, especially if they've never been there before. But anyone is free to enter Israel.

It boggles me, actually...ANYONE is allowed to visit the Western Wall. All they have to do is go through security, which is just a metal detector. It's not like the airport where they question everybody; pass through without setting off an alarm (or have a valid reason as I for for setting off the alarm - I have metallic implants in my ankle), follow the rules - men on one side, women on the other, no cell phones or smoking on the Sabbath or holidays, etc., and anybody can visit. I've seen Jews, Catholics, and yes even Muslims there.

Yet Islam/the WAQF will not allow me anywhere near the Dome of the Rock...ever. I wouldn't go there to pray, as I know that it's a Muslim shrine. But as an enthusiast of art and architecture, I would LOVE to get close and look at what I've been told is amazing artwork. Amazing artwork in/around the Dome of the Rock does not surprise me in the least. I've heard that it's very colorful and beautiful.

Marc

AyostoLeon · Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:37 pm

Cadet985
You should be able to travel to the UAE without a problem on business or to visit. On the UAE Embassy in the US website FAQ page, the following questions appear:

Q: I am an American traveling to the UAE, do I need a visa?
A: Americans with US passports valid for more than six months are welcome to enter the UAE, and do not need to obtain a visa to enter the country, if the duration of stay is less than one month. This includes travel for business, tourism or in transit. This also includes US citizens with visas or entry stamps from other countries.

Q: I am an American traveling to the UAE, will the UAE allow me entry if I have an Israeli stamp in my passport?
A: Yes.
http://www.uae-embassy.org/embassy/faqs/passports-visas

SOBHI51 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 33):
UAE customs (or whatever the agency is called) would see my Israeli stamps and not admit me.

When i apply for my USA visa i am asked if i visited Cuba, Pakistan or North Korea, reasons to deny a visa, same thing here, each country have the right to have it's own rules.

As far as i know, a Jewish name is not a reason anymore to deny a visa to a lot of Arabic countries.

As an Arab i don't think i can show up at EL AL desk in JFK and buy a ticket to TLV. I should get a visa first, do you think they will accept to give me one one the grounds i am a tourist?

BTW i like your last posting, it's very civilized, keep this up.

If you ever apply for a visa to KSA make sure you don't mention

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 32):
Quoting cadet985 (Reply 24):
I am a Zionist and will defend Israel from Muslims/Arabs at all costs.

[Edited 2014-06-07 07:57:22]

BTW as a Muslim am i allowed to visit the Buraq wall?

[Edited 2014-06-07 08:01:15]

DeltaMD90 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:56 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 33):
Someone from an Arab country on the other hand (excluding Jordan and Egypt) is free to enter Israel . . . But anyone is free to enter Israel.

Therefore Israel should be able to get away with anything they want?

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 33):
It boggles me, actually...ANYONE is allowed to visit the Western Wall . . . Yet Islam/the WAQF will not allow me anywhere near the Dome of the Rock

Therefore Israel should be able to get away with anything they want?

Two wrongs don't make a right

Mir · Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 33):
although I carry a US passport, UAE customs (or whatever the agency is called) would see my Israeli stamps and not admit me.

That has nothing to do with you being Jewish, but that you go to Israel a lot. You'd have the same issue if you weren't Jewish but had business ties to Israel and thus traveled there frequently. I'm not defending the policy, but it's a diplomatic issue between two countries, not something against people of a certain religion.

-Mir

Cadet985 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:02 pm

[Edited 2014-06-07 07:57:22]

BTW as a Muslim am i allowed to visit the Buraq wall?

Yes. ANYONE is free to worship there, provided they go through security, which consists of a metal detector and x-ray machine (if you're carrying anything). Even as a Jew, I avoid the Wall when I'm in Israel during the Sabbath and holidays, as crowds can be huge, though the area is not.

Marc

windy95 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
How many Palestinian refugees are there?

Actually very few. Most of them have grown old and passed on. The next generations would be citizens of the country that they had been born in. There actually was more jewish refugees from the wars then there was Arab . Go look at the Un numbers from the time. Many more Jews had been kicked out fo Arab countries after 47/48 with loss of property and living. The only differnece being that the Jews had been absorbed into other countries. Somehow the "Palestinains have become one of the very few refugees in history that have been given this special staus. the only reason they have this status is because of the anti-semitism thaqt exists in the UN and on this board.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 6):
Of course the study forgot to mention how many of those 900,000, immigrated to the promised land by there own free will.

Those are not they ones that left freely. Also most of the Palestinians fleed freely or under order from the Arab league so the armies could crush the Jews. But "The Disaster " happened and the Arab league has been stuck with the "refugees" ever since.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
For one thing, the land Israel is in was supposed to be equally split between a Jewish state and an Arab state.

But the Arabs did not go along and persued war. The lost. So sorry. Move along

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
The fact that Israel is now taking more land meant for the Arab state doesn't help its cause

It is on land that it won during the Arabs continued war for agression. They stupidly gave back land after conflicts twice only to be attacked again. Never again should they return any land for negotiations.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
Really? Lets see few years ago King Abdullah (crown prince at the time) announced a peace plan, in the understanding that things will be discussed in negotiations, the strange thing is that Israel did not have the courtesy of a response

How about all of the Arab countries recognize Israels right to exist first. Then maybe they could get some actual talks going. How about the King visit Israel and set up a consualte in Tel-Aviv and begin talks?

Cadet985 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:12 pm

Windy — what "all?" There are TWO, and they both share borders with Israel.

Hint: I am not talking about Syria and Lebanon. Every other Arab country wants Israel — and the Jewish people — destroyed.

Marc

TheCommodore · Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 40):
Windy — what "all?" There are TWO, and they both share borders with Israel.

How funny.....

You guys cant even get your story straight !

How many countries again ???????

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 40):
and the Jewish people — destroyed.

Yeah right....

Just like you ( and I have a copy of your previous post) want to "destroy" every Palestinian !!

SOBHI51 · Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 39):
How about all of the Arab countries recognize Israels right to exist first. Then maybe they could get some actual talks going. How about the King visit Israel and set up a consualte in Tel-Aviv and begin talks?

Your understanding of politics is very shallow, usually you need at least two side to sit and negotiate, when one one of the side does not respond then he is not interested in finding a peaceful solution, now if you have a negotiation, you will or will not get a resolution, if you get one then you start by recognizing each other and starting diplomatic relation.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 29):
BEIRUT, March 28 (AFP) - The official translation of the Saudi-proposed Arab peace initiative adopted at the annual Arab summit in Beirut, as published on the Arab League internet site:
The Arab Peace Initiative
The Council of the League of Arab States at the Summit Level, at its 14th Ordinary Session,

- Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab Countries, to be achieved in accordance with International Legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli Government.

- Having listened to the statement made by His Royal Highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in which his Highness presented his Initiative, calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land for peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian State, with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel.

- Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1- Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2- Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

a. Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights to the lines of June 4, 1967 as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

b. Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian Refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

c. The acceptance of the establishment of a Sovereign Independent Palestinian State on the Palestinian territories occupied since the 4th of June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab Countries affirm the following:

a. Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

b. Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the Government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab Countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighborliness and provide future generations with security, stability, and prosperity.

6. Invites the International Community and all countries and Organizations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the Chairman of the Summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the Secretary General of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim States and the European Union.

Please read 3 a and b.

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 40):
Every other Arab country wants Israel — and the Jewish people — destroyed.

Don't know where you have been lately but there is a peace treaty between Egypt, Israel and Jordan, surprise surprise.

Cadet985 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:23 am

As I mentioned in another thread, Jordan and Egypt are the only two countries in the Arab world that don't want to destroy Israel.

Marc

AyostoLeon · Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting cadet985 (Reply 43):
the only two countries in the Arab world that don't want to destroy Israel.

If recognition of a Palestinian State is identical to the destruction of Israel, I guess you are right. However ...

During January 2014 the Israeli Minister for Water and Energy, Silvan Shalom, visited Abu Dhabi where he attended a meeting of the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), of which Israel is a member.

This did cause a bit of a stir, with Kuwait announcing it would not attend, but the UAE stated that as a member of IRENA Israeli was entitled to send a delegation. Other Arab countries attended, as did Iran.

The UAE Foreign Minister, Anwar Mohammad Gargash, made it clear that the attendance of Shalom did not mean a normalisation of bilateral ties, which Israel has been seeking. At this point the UAE maintains that ties will not be normalised until Israel agrees to adopt the Arab Peace Initiative, which does recognise both Israel and Palestine.

Shalom is not the first Israeli Minister to have visited the UAE. A previous Minister for Water and Energy, Uzi Landau, attended a conference on 16 January 2010, becoming the first Israeli Minister to visit. Of course, three days later the murder / assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh occurred and once more Israeli's were persona non grata.

Despite that, we read in the US cables published by WikiLeaks that under Ehud Olmert Israel's then Foreign Minister, Tzipi Livni, had a good working relationship with her Emirati counterpart. Hardly evidence that the UAE is out to destroy anyone, let alone Israel, although there are plenty of hate sites that wish it so.

TheCommodore · Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:37 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 44):
Despite that, we read in the US cables published by WikiLeaks that under Ehud Olmert Israel's then Foreign Minister, Tzipi Livni, had a good working relationship with her Emirati counterpart. Hardly evidence that the UAE is out to destroy anyone, let alone Israel, although there are plenty of hate sites that wish it so.

And she's one of the few of Israels cabinet ministers, who thinks Isarel is going down the wrong track when it comes to the peace negotiations...

Pity know one there is taking notice and listening to her !

Maybe once Bibi get the ass, which I hope will be soon ?

As a foot note...

I'd bet the only reason Israel was there (in the UAE), is because of its shortage of water, not to rub shoulders and repair bridges and make friends with the other attendees.... just the water !

AyostoLeon · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 45):
I'd bet the only reason Israel was there (in the UAE), is because of its shortage of water, not to rub shoulders and repair bridges and make friends with the other attendees.... just the water !

Given the UAE's shortage of water, maybe. The UAE is in the top ten water scarce countries. Israel can certainly share its experience in water efficiency with the UAE given the latter's need and current wasteful expenditure of water.

Shalom attended a meeting about energy. The UAE may have plenty of oil today but it is interested in developing alternatives. Both Israel and the UAE can trade expertise in the development of gas, for example, given that both countries are developing new fields. Perhaps the UAE can obtain advice about nuclear energy, now that Australia is committed to supply the UAE with uranium. Then there is the development of solar energy. So many opportunities ....

And behind the scenes, if the opportunity arose to discuss other issues, why not?

TheCommodore · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:37 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 46):
Perhaps the UAE can obtain advice about nuclear energy, now that Australia is committed to supply the UAE with uranium.

Lets hope Iran or another helpful neighbour can give the UAE any advice it may need on Nuclear.

Israel has no Nuclear capabilities remember, either power plants or weapons if you believe them !!!

Pants on fire......

seb146 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:15 am

As an American, I find it horrible that humans are expelled.

However:

Different countries have different laws. I may not agree with them but I don't want my morals forced on their country.

Maverick623 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:17 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 48):
I may not agree with them but I don't want my morals forced on their country.

I'd be more willing to bet that you do not want their morals forced on you, and as a compromise you won't force yours on them.

That only works if:

a) they agree with your compromise, otherwise they're going to do it anyways, and;

b) their morals closely align with yours... otherwise you really don't believe in your morals.

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