Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
fxramper
Topic Author
Posts: 5839
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:15 pm

The monarchy is so high on bringing a fresh new look to all news outlets worldwide; i've been on business in the UK and to Sydney and they are still so high on the Prince William & Kate fascination. Given that, Juan Carlos of Spain, left early so his son could rule with fame, does it seem likely that England monarchies could follow?

[Edited 2014-06-10 13:22:47]
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13361
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:26 pm

never, she will die on the throne, she's made of sterner stuff then those pansies on the continent  

When she ascended the throne she said she would dedicate her life to serving her people, unlike prison in Norway, when Liz said life, she meant life, as in until she dies!
 
ab486
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:26 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:43 pm

Nope, it will never happen. Like KiwiRob says above, HM The Queen once said: "I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong".
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:43 pm

KiwiRob has it right, she means it, the only exception might be if her mental ability declines with increasing age, as carrying out her Constitutional roles and responsibilities, such as viewing and signing off on legislation, being a confidant, totally discreetly, for the Prime Minister, are examples of her real job.
The openings, tours, meets and greets etc are just the visible face of the Monarch.

Remember too that as a child, she saw up close the Abdication crisis of the 1930's, that might have ultimately brought her to the throne but it was still seen as betraying the institution and the country, a cop out, cowardly, about the worst thing to do.
That left a deep impression, a scar really.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:27 pm

Not cat in hells chance of a serving British Monarch abdicating
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8641
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:17 pm

She's close to breaking Victoria's record reign. If I were a sovereign on the verge of surpassing the longest reigning monarch of my country, I'd have to have a terminal illness for me to even consider giving up the throne.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
Not cat in hells chance of a serving British Monarch abdicating

Well it did happen before. Remember Edward VIII?

I hope she stays. In fact, I hope she outlives her son Charles. I just can't see that dope ever being king.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Remember Edward VIII?

Edward's abdication was nothing to do with early retirement. While the abdication for love myth remains popular, the underlying reasons go deeper and include Edward's sympathy for Hitler and his "achievements" in Germany prior to the abdication. The earlier method for dealing with recalcitrant monarchs was far more brutal.

Addressing both Houses of Parliament during her 60th Jubilee Year, the Queen said: "I have been privileged to witness some of that history and, with the support of my family, rededicate myself to the service of our great country and its people now and in the years to come."

This was (is) a clear message that so long as her health permits, the Queen has no intention to go off to a sunset home for ex-monarchs. Should Her Majesty become incapacitated it would be expected that Charles would become Prince Regent. There is precedent. George Augustus Frederick, Prince of Wales, served as Prince Regent from 1811 until 1820 after his father, George III, became unfit due to mental illness.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23406
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:24 am

Godfried daniels, I think the monarchy is the only point Dreadnaught and I agree on in the whole history of a.net!!!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:38 am

No never no never.
I doubt that even mental illness or dementia or anything like that would see QE2 abdicate. Charles would become Regent if that were the case until his mum passed away. I think that there have been similar cases over the past half a millennium or so... But I may stand corrected!
And yes, Australia does still seem to be in some kind of royal stupor after Wills and Kate...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 9):
Charles would become Regent if that were the case until his mum passed away. I think that there have been similar cases over the past half a millennium or so... But I may stand corrected!

The last Regency was 1811 to 1820, when George III became physically and mentally infirm and his son became Prince Regent - later George IV, when his father died. He had no children, so the throne went to his brother, William IV, and he had no children, so Victoria, his niece, got the guernsey.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 9):
And yes, Australia does still seem to be in some kind of royal stupor after Wills and Kate..

I'm not sure it's stupor, or just William/Kate nor Prince George - "the Republican slayer":

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201.../support-republic-20-year-low-poll

"Popular support for a republic flags to a 20-year low, new poll shows

But in a blow to the republican movement, which hopes to cut ties with the royal family, more people aged between 18 and 35 oppose a republic than support it, the poll shows."


I think the shannigans in Canberra over the last several years may have had something to do with it.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:10 am

I have a question:

I know that during World War 2 she was a truck mechanic and drove trucks (or ambulances?). So, is she also considered a World War 2 veteran?
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
I know that during World War 2 she was a truck mechanic and drove trucks (or ambulances?). So, is she also considered a World War 2 veteran?

She was in uniformed service, so I expect yes. Of course she was only 18 at the end of the war.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:04 am

Considering that her mum lived to about 100 and still in pretty good shape she will likely will be Queen for many more years. Charles and William are already doing many appearances and duties that QEII would and has done but at her age will be more selective in them.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:20 am

I can see her serving until death unless there is something totally unexpected, like Alzheimer's. It would be a situation where she understands what is ahead for her and she sets a point where a date is put onto a paper that has already been signed.
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:02 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I hope she stays. In fact, I hope she outlives her son Charles. I just can't see that dope ever being king.

That's the nature of a monarchy unfortunately. You don't get to pick 'em!

I actually quite like him though. He was one of the first people in the UK to be speaking about the environment during the excesses of the 80s; he was one of the first people to champion preservation of beautiful buildings from the onslaught of modern architecture.

Is it purely this ludicrous Diana obsession people still have? Would anybody really have wanted that mental vacuum to be Queen?
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting ab486 (Reply 2):
Nope, it will never happen.

I wouldn't say never, but I have a better chance at winning the lottery than seeing Queen Elizabeth abdicate soon.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 9):
I doubt that even mental illness or dementia or anything like that would see QE2 abdicate.

I do think she would abdicate if she became seriously ill - physically or mentally. As mentioned above she saw her uncle badly damage the Monarchy. She saw it kill her father. She has also seen her own actions distance the royal family from the people. She has taken those lessons and worked very hard to make her house strong and establish a solid legacy.

Any illness, physical or decreased mental capacity, would diminish the House of Windsor. She doesn't want that. She wants to leave the throne as a strong institution.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see her leave the throne even without a physically or mental illness on her 90th or 95th birthday - certainly no longer than her 100th birthday.

Not beyond the realm of possibility - her mother lived to over 100.

Another possibility is that if Prince Philip dies before her - she might choose to leave the throne then.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 7):
include Edward's sympathy for Hitler and his "achievements" in Germany prior to the abdication.

Remember Edward's father and the Kaiser Wilheim II of German were first cousins - both grandsons of Queen Victoria. Even though Edward served in the British armed forces in WWI, he had strong ties to Germany. The Kaiser was still alive then, and he, along with others, hoped Hitler's rise would allow the monarchy to return to Germany. Edward was born the royal son and heir to the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

Only in 1917 was the House of Windsor created - to avoid reminding the British people that their royal house was largely German.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:07 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
She has also seen her own actions distance the royal family from the people.

Which actions did you have in mind?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...y-at-all-time-high-poll-shows.html

"Confidence in British monarchy at all-time high, poll shows"

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:01 am

she made an oath at a coronation, which is a religious service - unlike that of the continental monarchies - a religious service involving the ancient consecration and the anointing by oil. She takes that very seriously, and she would never contemplate abdication.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:17 am

KiwiRob, same could be said for Obama. Then the Nobel committee gives him the Peace Prize less than a year into office.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
steman
Posts: 1668
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:08 am

Long live the Queen.
I like her a lot, mostly because she represent the United Kingdom, a Country that I love a lot.
And I like that the Monarch is a woman. It has a motherly figure to it.
I was sad when the Queen of Holland abdicated. We still celebrate Koninginnendag in Berlin, even if now it should be Koningsdag  
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13361
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:26 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
KiwiRob, same could be said for Obama. Then the Nobel committee gives him the Peace Prize less than a year into office.

Agreed that wasa very stupid decision on behalf of the Nobel Committee, but I don't think Obama and GWB can be compared on an interlectual level, one was barely smarter than a 5 year old the other went to Harvard. One is clearly an idiot, he couldn't even say nuclear properly, I guess his stupidity appealed to an electorate full of his equals, I can't think of any other reason why he was elected.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:02 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
does it seem likely that England monarchies could follow?

Please not.
I would rather be seeing her any time rather than Charles or William.

She is 88 and doing well. May she live to 110 and older and keeping her health and good spirits as she is now.

I am no Royalist here but I wish her a very long and healthy life keeping all her intellectual capacities - she's got lots of that.

Queen Elizabeth II is the world's second oldest reigning monarch after Thailand King Bhumibol Adulyadej (reign 67 years on 9 June 2013).

May they both go on living and reigning many years more!!!

              
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
I know that during World War 2 she was a truck mechanic and drove trucks (or ambulances?). So, is she also considered a World War 2 veteran?

Yes, in an organisation called the ATS, she maintained and drove large vehicles.
By that stage, the level of civil conscription to support the war effort, to free up as many fighting age men as possible, saw this also in farm work as well as factories,
One of the very few 18 year old or more young women in 1943, who was not involved in any of this work, in fact avoided it before taking her place at university, was one Margaret Roberts, later Thatcher!

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 15):
I actually quite like him though. He was one of the first people in the UK to be speaking about the environment during the excesses of the 80s; he was one of the first people to champion preservation of beautiful buildings from the onslaught of modern architecture

The problem with Charles is that while he can be cranky, eccentric, tends to comment on this he knows little about, there is also a genuine concern about many issues, his Princes Trust has helped many young people for instance.
But he has stuck his nose into politics too, his notorious memos to Ministers, mostly from around 10 years ago, complaining or lobbying about issues.
His obsession and lobbying about Olde Worlde styles of building design don't help either.
These memos are subject to legal action, a newspaper citing the UK's own Freedom Of Information laws is contesting a government clamp down on these being released.

The Attorney General has admitted that if they are, they could in his own words undermine the political impartiality of the Monarchy once Charles becomes King.
What was he thinking? While the government won the last round the appeals continue, even if for now they stay secret the pressure to end this will become much more intense and from a far wider group demanding they are released.
It's one thing to make an ill judged public remark about Putin when you are surrounded by cameras, mics, journalists, but to attempt to lobby or change government policy is about the worst thing a British Royal can do.
The Queen understands this, her Son does not.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
KiwiRob, same could be said for Obama. Then the Nobel committee gives him the Peace Prize less than a year into office.

Another rather remarkable attempt to shoehorn an obsession about Obama into a thread about, in this case, a very different kind of Head of State.

Amazing how an obsession about Obama can attempted to be shoehorned into a thread about an entirely different kind of Head Of State.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:40 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
I would rather be seeing her any time rather than Charles or William.

I think Charles might be a very good king - he;s been a great father.

No one knows what a person will be like in high office until they assume that office. Few people gave tuppence for the chances of the Queen's father, the Stutterer, when he came to the throne.

And yet George VI proved to be a very fine king, and burnished the crown with honour.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 13):

Considering that her mum lived to about 100 and still in pretty good shape she will likely will be Queen for many more years. Charles and William are already doing many appearances and duties that QEII would and has done but at her age will be more selective in them.


Except HMQEII is a smoker. There's a good chance that could play a role in her future health...
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 25):
Except HMQEII is a smoker. There's a good chance that could play a role in her future health...

I'm pretty sure she isn't.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3830
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
I wouldn't say never, but I have a better chance at winning the lottery than seeing Queen Elizabeth abdicate soon.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see her leave the throne even without a physically or mental illness on her 90th or 95th birthday - certainly no longer than her 100th birthday. (...)
Another possibility is that if Prince Philip dies before her - she might choose to leave the throne then.

Aren't you contradicting yourself, she is 90 in less then 2 years, which I would consider 'soon'
She will stay on the throne, period. Her (grand)son can be regent in times of illness. Of course international trips will be taken over completely by Charles and William very soon, and even things like the annual Queen's speech can be taken over when she isn't able to do that any more.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 25):
Except HMQEII is a smoker.

No way. she saw her father and sister die from chain smoking, I just can't imagine her smoking, at least not in the last 30 years, plus I never read any proof or witnesses of that.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:17 pm

What a nice patriotic thread to come across!

I think William and Kate are more in favour with the public, but I feel sorry for Charles; he gets so much 'abuse' for nothing really. He has had his fair share of tragedy in his life, and looking after 2 teenagers who lost their mother.

God Save The Queen!

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
jetblue777
Posts: 1204
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:13 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:39 pm

This thread reminds me of this:



      
It's a cultural thing.
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 25):
Except HMQEII is a smoker.

Ummm, not sure about that....?

I have never seen a picture of her Maj lighting up, but I could be wrong.

Her sister Margaret was a smoker, and a heavy drinker, and a party girl, that certainly played a role in her early demise.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:29 am

Pretty certain that Her Maj is not a smoker.

One of her main Constitutional roles;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27693589
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:32 am

Maybe she has quit the habit then. A friend of mine looked after her horses and saw her smoking on occasion about 10 years ago.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8641
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:26 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 15):
Would anybody really have wanted that mental vacuum to be Queen?

Diana would not have been queen by any means. Only Charles would have been king. Diana could have been given the title Princess. Elizabeth's husband is not king, he's the Duke of Edinburgh. She would only pretty much be considered a queen consort, but with no powers whatsoever.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
Diana would not have been queen by any means

Wrong. If a male heir to the throne marries a female BEFORE he becomes King, his wife becomes Queen. If someone who is King marries a girl after, then the girl doesn't become Queen. So if Charles became King whilst still married to Diana she would have been Queen. That is how Kate can become Queen if/when William becomes King.
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:37 pm

Quoting a320ajm (Reply 34):
If a male heir to the throne marries a female BEFORE he becomes King, his wife becomes Queen. If someone who is King marries a girl after, then the girl doesn't become Queen. So if Charles became King whilst still married to Diana she would have been Queen. That is how Kate can become Queen if/when William becomes King.

Isn't it technically Queen to the King ? How would it work as to Camilla with Prince Charles when/if he becomes King ?
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:40 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 27):
which I would consider 'soon'

I don't. The implication of the OP in my opinion was an abdication this year - which I don't see happening.

I do doubt she would abdicate at age 90, though 95 would not be surprising IMHO.

Of course she may fool us all and abdicate on Feb 5, 2028 - after celebrating her 75th year on the throne at age 102.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
CXB77L
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
does it seem likely that England monarchies could follow?

In my opinion, not a chance in hell. Her Majesty the Queen will remain on the throne until the day she dies. Even if she were incapacitated, she would still be Queen, although Prince Charles would effectively "take over" her duties.

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
I think Charles might be a very good king

I think so too. I don't understand why people don't want Charles to be King. Yes, he's made his share of mistakes, but that's no indication that he wouldn't be a great King. And even if he weren't - would he be so bad that he would destroy the Monarchy? It is an establishment that has survived for nearly a thousand years (albeit with a brief recess in the sixteenth century when England became a republic), I do not think that one man, even if he were King, would be able to single handedly bring down such an established institution.

Laws relating to succession are very clear. Charles will be King, unless he predeceases his mother. Let him be, then let history judge his kingship.

Quoting a320ajm (Reply 34):
Wrong. If a male heir to the throne marries a female BEFORE he becomes King, his wife becomes Queen.

But she becomes Queen consort, not Queen Regnant. There's a difference. Her Majesty may have the title, but none of the powers that a Queen Regnant would otherwise have. So from that point of view, she is Queen only in title.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:46 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 37):
I think so too. I don't understand why people don't want Charles to be King. Yes, he's made his share of mistakes, but that's no indication that he wouldn't be a great King. And even if he weren't - would he be so bad that he would destroy the Monarchy? It is an establishment that has survived for nearly a thousand years (albeit with a brief recess in the sixteenth century when England became a republic), I do not think that one man, even if he were King, would be able to single handedly bring down such an established institution.

You are probably correct in all this, however there is also little doubt that the current popularity of the Monarchy is in large part due to the Queen.
Charle's mistakes, the lobbying in particular, are just so much more prominent in the mass communication age, an age also much less marked by habits of deference, which is generally a good thing.

The positive effect the Queen has, will likely be more marked and subject to change when she is gone in the Commonwealth.

It will be a strange time when she is no longer Queen, being on the throne since 1952 means most people in the UK have known no other monarch, on every coin, banknote, her image is with all of us, every day..
Today saw the annual Trooping of The Colour, it's hard to imagine anyone else taking the salute, nodding in approval at the appointed times though still largely inscrutable.
Only showing real pleasure at the fly past, usually at the sound of the Merlin engines of the RAF's Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight, that link to the past also much in evidence at the D-Day commemorations last week, she is of those veterans generation after all.

When Charles opens Parliament in that other great ceremony, we will have an idea of his views on a number of subjects, again very different to the current Monarch.

The Republicans will get a boost when Charles takes over, though I doubt it will be nearly enough to make for instance a referendum on the future of the Monarchy politically inevitable.
If Charles as King was to reverse that by his conduct, back to the levels of support they now enjoy,that would be a real achievement by him.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:58 pm

Trooping the Colour 2014

videos

Great video with the marching bands and the public

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2M9p--Rd5c


The Royal family on the balcony with the flypast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTRlIFI4n2k

        
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:13 pm

Can I rant for a moment?

I am AMERICAN.

Why do I have to hear about Britian's monarchy? I don't have to hear about any other monarchy......just them. Now I realize that a.net this is a world forum.......but I'm talking about US media in general. If the queen farts....I HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT IT!!!!!

Live coverage @ 5am eastern for Charles & Diana wedding, Diana's funeral, Will & Kate's wedding. Why?????

The day that baby was born ABC's evening news spent the first (not kidding) 20 freakin minutes on it!!! Why?????!?!?!???!!??!??!



RANT OVER !!!   
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 38):
When Charles opens Parliament in that other great ceremony, we will have an idea of his views on a number of subjects, again very different to the current Monarch.

We'll have no idea whatsoever. As in your own link, the monarch's speech is written by the government of the day:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27693589

Quoting GDB (Reply 38):
The Republicans will get a boost when Charles takes over, though I doubt it will be nearly enough to make for instance a referendum on the future of the Monarchy politically inevitable.

The republican movement ebbs and flows. It flowed quite strongly in the mid-19th century when Albert, the Prince Consort, died and Victoria retired to Windsor, in mourning, not to be seen in public for many years.

But by the time Victoria died, the republican movement had ebbed to almost nothing.

It flowed with the death of Diana and Rupert Murdoch's campaign against the Queen. But the Queen was playing a longer game - she doesn't think in headlines, she thinks in generations. She knew that the future health of the monarchy depended on the emotional health of the two bereaved boys.

And looking at how those two boys have grown up, who can now say she was wrong?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3150
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 40):

Turn the TV off then. The British Monarchy has been a very influential entity in the world for a very long time, and in the age of the 24 hour news cycle, we're hearing about it with the same proportion it would've been heard about previously.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:49 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 37):
But she becomes Queen consort, not Queen Regnant. There's a difference. Her Majesty may have the title, but none of the powers that a Queen Regnant would otherwise have. So from that point of view, she is Queen only in title.

You said:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
Diana would not have been queen by any means.

So she still would have had the title of 'Queen'.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Isn't it technically Queen to the King ? How would it work as to Camilla with Prince Charles when/if he becomes King ?

I think Camilla technically could become Queen, but she can turn the title down as far as I know.

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:10 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
We'll have no idea whatsoever. As in your own link, the monarch's speech is written by the government of the day:

But in some instances we will know he disagrees, he might not even be able to keep a measure of distaste out of his voice.
This was a man remember, who on holiday with William and Harry, being filmed and photographed in a press event, muttered his dislike of the BBC Royal Correspondent (a fair and generally sympathetic one who was there), to his sons, not realising there were these modern things called microphones in close proximity.
The Queen would NEVER do that.

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
And looking at how those two boys have grown up, who can now say she was wrong?

Agreed, though I think the British Army was the making of Harry, gave this rather errant, somewhat troubled young man a real sense of duty and purpose, which he has taken across the range of his role and duties.
Still likes a good time, though after his service it's now a part of his appeal and popularity, especially with the younger generation.

I have some sympathy with 727Lover, knowing how US TV news tends to trivialise so much!
Many here don't like it when reporting on the Royals descends into soap opera territory, when some UK channels do as well.
We perhaps also hear too much about US elections too soon in the story as well.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7145
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:48 am

Kingdom is all about traditions. In some kingdoms it is a tradition that old monarchs abdicate, in others it is not. The UK and the Scandinavian countries belong to the latter group, while the Netherlands is a prominent example of the first group.

For instance the Danish Queen, who is some ten years younger than QEII, has already gradually for most practical things retired and left the duties to the Crown Prince, and that beautiful Australian girl, the Crown Princess. The Queen has now more time for her painting, and her husband more time for writing poetry, while the younger generation is forced to do the really hard work such as opening new motorways and what else such things we have them to do.

Queen's birthday is, however, one serious duty which is hard to prematurely hand over to next generation.

Some people compare monarchs to presidents. Few things are less relevant. Modern monarchs and all their family are people who are born to do certain ceremonial duties in order to eliminate the need to discuss who else should do it.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting a320ajm (Reply 43):
I think Camilla technically could become Queen, but she can turn the title down as far as I know.

Camilla's actual title is Princess of Wales, but she doesn't use it because there would have been uproar at the time about the dead Diana. So she uses her other marital title, Duchess of Cornwall instead.

The wife of the King is always "Queen" but not in the sense of Queen Regnant (reigning). Elizabeth is Queen Regnant - her mother was Queen Consort - usually just called the Queen, and subsequently, the Queen Mother.

There used to be a lot of talk about Camilla using Princess Consort when Charles becomes king, but you can blame the Diana worshippers for that.

I think it's silly. When Charles is crowned king, Camille will be the queen.

In the case of the husband of a reigning queen, he is the consort, so Philip is the prince consort. The Queen has never given him the formal designation Prince Consort, presumably because she doesn't think it's necessary - he is that already.

It only happened with Prince Albert because Victoria launched a furious campaign to have him named King, but there is no such thing as a non-reigning king - you're either king or you're not - so Victoria finally accepted the compromise of Prince Consort - which he already was, but now formalised with capital letters.

The only exception to this was with William and Mary - joint reigning monarchs - which Parliament refused to give to Albert, because he was outside the direct bloodline.

Quoting GDB (Reply 44):
But in some instances we will know he disagrees, he might not even be able to keep a measure of distaste out of his voice.

People can read into it whatever they want - and I have no doubt many will - but the speech itself will contain nothing of Charles and everything of the government of the time.

I find it difficult to criticise him for something he hasn't yet done.

mariner

[Edited 2014-06-14 19:04:00]
aeternum nauta
 
wstakl
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:51 am

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:22 am

Yes she should, and while she is at it disband the entire monarchy. In this day and age I find it pathetic that a country like New Zealand is 'ruled' by someone on the other side of the world.

It was an embarrassment that during the recent Royal tour it cost the New Zealand taxpayer NZD$1million plus, yet up until recently there were still people using port-a-loos in the eastern suburbs of Christchurch City following the devastating February 2011 earthquake.

Unfortunately, for this country at least, we have a government telling us that it was money well spent and it greatly benefited NZ financially by having them here. Well not in my back pocket it didn't. All I got out of it was being bombarded with wall to wall media coverage of what Kate was wearing, who the designer was and seeing politicians getting photo ops during an election year.

Oh and one other thing, upon flying back to London on QF, why did they use pseudonyms despite having 90 pieces of luggage and having the entire F cabin to themselves. I don't get it. Was it to try and fool the crew? Come on!

[Edited 2014-06-14 19:24:29]

[Edited 2014-06-14 19:25:43]

[Edited 2014-06-14 19:26:44]
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13361
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:27 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 40):
Why do I have to hear about Britian's monarchy? I don't have to hear about any other monarchy......just them.

Not many other english speaking monarchies in the world.

Quoting mariner (Reply 46):
Camilla's actual title is Princess of Wales, but she doesn't use it because there would have been uproar at the time about the dead Diana. So she uses her other marital title, Duchess of Cornwall instead.

I get sick and tired of all the Diana crap, she ended her life as a play thing for rich men, she wasn't much of anything at the end.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 47):
In this day and age I find it pathetic that a country like New Zealand is 'ruled' by someone on the other side of the world.

Ceremonial only, what would you replace her with? She doesn't cost us anything except when she visits, a President would cost the taxpayer more and wouldn't provide any additional benefit.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 47):
It was an embarrassment that during the recent Royal tour it cost the New Zealand taxpayer NZD$1million plus

1m Kiwi is a drop in the bucket, 1 million dollars is nothing, it's a few minutes tax intake, if we have a President we will have to pay for it 24/7 365 days per year, a president would be much more expensive and people would still have been using port-a-loos in Christchurch.
 
GDB
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Will Queen Elizabeth Abdicate?

Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:54 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 46):
I find it difficult to criticise him for something he hasn't yet done.

But he already has, a lot!
This is before his notorious 'black spider' (after his handwriting) memos are released, which they likely will eventually will be, apparently they were often written in anger.
He has lobbied, sometimes successfully, to have building projects stopped, now some of them many people will say 'good riddance' to but others were just not in the faux old world style he seems obsessed with.
His adviser on this is a man who thought Albert Speer was the greatest architect on the 20th Century!

He has a right to an opinion but not to interfere, getting the Qatari Royals involved as he has done with the Chelsea Barracks redevelopment is way beyond his remit.

One thing is for sure, once he is King this will have to stop, can a man who embodies the term 'set in his ways' do that?

wstaki, NZ is a democratic country, if there is such feeling towards the Monarchy surely you'll have a referendum, you might get the chance once Charles ascends to the throne?
Or could it be that there is not much in the way of public support for having this?

The Republicans here are usually a small bunch who have small, rather miserable boycotts of major events like the Jubilee or the bash London had when the most recent addition to the family was born.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: davidjohnson6, vrbarreto and 23 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos