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747400sp
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Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:10 pm

With the to price of gas, more people seems to like to travel on mass ground transportation vehicles like trains and buses. Now flying can be very costly, and not every town has an airport, and there are those who have a good amount of vacation time, and they may want to see the country. Now I believe that there is room for a new larger rail vehicle, that size wise, would be to a train, like a bus is to a car. I believe such a vehicle could give passengers a very affordable way of traveling, due to the higher amout of passengers it can carry. It could give passengers free wi fi and 5 abreast seating, it would be powered by ultra giant clean diesel or CNG locomotives. I know there would have to be new rail roads built or the nations railways would have to be redesigned for this vehicle, but I believe in the long run, it would be worth it. Now this may look like a crazy ideal, but I think it could work down the line, so what your thought on this ideal?


PS, please let us not have any negitive comments thank you.        
 
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Tugger
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:33 pm

There's always SuperTrain!  http://members.tripod.com/nbc_supertrain/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/supertrain_publicity_01.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertrain


Tugg
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KaiGywer
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:25 pm

The beauty of a railway though, is if you need to increase capacity, you add extra cars at the end. No need to reinvent the wheel. And 5-abreast seating with free Wifi is exactly what I rode here in Norway the other day. But to continue your idea, if you're inventing a whole new train network, why not go electric?
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johns624
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Why it's a bad idea---
1. Clearances
2. Cost
3. No ridership
You'd have to build entire new roadbed on newly acquired land Who would pay for this? Why do you think that it would be cheaper and attract more riders
 
PPVRA
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 3):
You'd have to build entire new roadbed on newly acquired land Who would pay for this? Why do you think that it would be cheaper and attract more riders

As Warren Buffett once said: "Does management think the tooth fairy pays for capital expenditures?"

But as said before, the nice thing about rail is that there is a ton of capacity even on current tracks. I think even freight rail won't begin to think about wider trains for a long, long time to come.

[Edited 2014-08-08 12:49:17]
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bohica
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:52 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 2):
is if you need to increase capacity, you add extra cars at the end.

The only limiting factor is the length of the platform.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 3):
Why it's a bad idea---
1. Clearances
2. Cost
3. No ridership

You forgot #4. Environmentalists.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:34 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 5):
The only limiting factor is the length of the platform.

This is true, and granted I have never taken Amtrak in the US, so I can't speak for them. But on a smaller scale, there is one subway line in Oslo, Norway that was initially made as a tram line back in the 1800s with short platforms. When new subway trains were purchased, they came in three car sets, rather than the single cars used in the past where they could add cars as needed. What this meant is that the last car will not reach the platform and passengers are advised to use the first two cars for these stops.
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bunumuring
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:52 am

Wow! I have never heard of that TV show. I wonder if it ever aired in Australia. Would love to see footage of it...
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Aesma
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 2):
The beauty of a railway though, is if you need to increase capacity, you add extra cars at the end.

Or an extra trainset, what's done with the TGV, you routinely get two paired together. And of course two decks instead of the original single one.

In the US what is needed is a high speed network, there is no hope outside of that. Riding a train is not that cheap, so it has to be faster than a car/bus or it's not worth it.

[Edited 2014-08-09 05:44:53]
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Braniff747SP
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:45 pm

A Superliner is pretty damn big, and it's restricted to operate only in certain areas (the vast majority of which are on the West Coast) due to clearance issues.

This would be a multi-billion dollar project in a nation that can't be bothered with Amtrak as it is. There are many things that Amtrak needs before new cards; most notably, new engines to replace the P40s (and derivatives of).
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PHX787
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:59 pm

i was actually thinking about doing what Japan does-

Cape gauge rail. And using a special, reinforced rail to minimize space and maximize speed.
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Boeing717200
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:40 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 7):

It was a long time ago. Probably kept on tape and has likely deteriorated to crap. Like the show was....
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:10 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
There's always SuperTrain!  

LMAO at Supertrain   That and the rights to the 1980 Summer Olympics almost bankrupted NBC.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 7):
I wonder if it ever aired in Australia.

One of the biggest bombs ever on television so probably not. It might be pirated on YouTube but I doubt any legit streaming service would touch it.

Anyhoo the only new rail I see going in for now is in California and that is getting very iffy with the cost. I know there was a move to protect the right of way for the abandoned Yuma-Phoenix rail line to tie in to a future HSR in California but not sure if that happened. Amtrak ended service here in Phoenix 20 years ago when that line was cut. Maricopa is the closest station now. The line is used as a spur coming up from Casa Grande area to at least Buckeye for now so I don't think it is immediate danger of being paved over with homes and businesses. I think it just became too much to maintain it west of there since mainline freight was probably causing traffic problems in town.
 
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speedygonzales
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:33 am

A certain megalomaniac man with a small mustache had plans for a 3 m gauge railway with 42 m long, 6 m wide and 7 m tall double decker coaches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
Riding a train is not that cheap, so it has to be faster than a car/bus or it's not worth it.

Recently intercity rail in the Midwestern US has become very cheap. I can buy a ticket for $20 to ride between Chicago and St. Louis and thats only three days in advance. I would much rather take the train around than drive, the issue however isn't that its more expensive, it's that the train doesn't go everywhere I want to.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
Cape gauge rail. And using a special, reinforced rail to minimize space and maximize speed.

Does Japan really use that small a gauge?
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flyingturtle
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 13):

That was infamous. It was Hitler's pet project, and he prescribed a third rail from which the power is taken instead of overhead cables. The locomotives were supposed to be powered with 50'000 volts, or even 100'000 volts, which would have needed quite a large safety area. Construction railway stations was impossible that way, and so they "solved" this problem by shunting the waggons into and out of stations by shunting locomotives.

The new stations located in Berlin were integral part of the "World Capital Germania", and in order to prepare and clear area for the pompous avenue in Berlin, they already have relocated about 15'000 bodies from a cemetery...

The Breitspurbahn was also an part of the "living space" in the East. Railway waggons were planned to move all the peasants who should farm on the vast conquered lands of Asia.


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Max Q
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:06 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
There's always SuperTrain!

Supertrain rocks man



Nuclear powered train with an average speed of 78 mph, one word.



AWESOMENESS.



Why was this just a dream ?            
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PHX787
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 14):
Does Japan really use that small a gauge?

Quite effectively. Sure the whole stereotype is very crowded trains, but the vehicles themselves are quite large. The speed though is usually around 130kmh/ 80mph. However, in the Hokuriku area, the speed is close to 160kmh/100mph.

Shinkansen/Bullet trains run on standard gauge, but there have been proposals and studies to operate shinkansen vehicles on cape gauge tracks. Google "Super Tokkyu"
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prebennorholm
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
It could give passengers free wi fi and 5 abreast seating

Does anybody remember a non wi-fi intercity train? 3-4-5 abreast seating has been the norm for 150 years depending on class. And don't forget dining cars with own kitchen and a la carte menues, sleeping cars, transport of your own private car.

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
it would be powered by ultra giant clean diesel or CNG locomotives.

No locomotive. Electric power under the floor has been the norm for how many decades...

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Now I believe that there is room for a new larger rail vehicle, that size wise, would be to a train, like a bus is to a car.

Impossible. Think about the bridges, tunnels and railway stations which would have to be rebuilt. Much of it, and certainly the stations, are within towns, and endless parts of the towns would have to be torn down to make extra room. That mess would last for decades and be so costly that train travel would be unaffordable.

And the airports: Most large airport terminals would need to be partly torn down and rebuilt because they have a train station in the basement.

For capacity you just increase frequency. How many trains with 500 or even 1000 passengers can pass on a track per day?

All you ask for, and much more, is already there. Just use it.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
PHX787
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 18):
No locomotive. Electric power under the floor has been the norm for how many decades...

That's how the Shinkansen work. But not the Acela express.......
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prebennorholm
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:43 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
That's how the Shinkansen work. But not the Acela express.......

You are right - no rule without an exception. Quote from Wiki:

"The Acela trainset is a unique train designed specifically to satisfy specific U.S. governmental rolling stock requirements. This includes a requirement to be able to collide with a freight train at speed without collapsing, which necessitates that the passenger cars be built with massive amounts of extra steel and weight.[53] These requirements are significantly different from anywhere else in the world, including other countries that have highly functional high speed rail networks, which use modern signalling and computer controls to emphasize crash prevention".

That requirement doesn't work well with heavy underfloor power systems in passenger cars. Therefore separate locomotives.

Acela is a US way to (decades late) catch up on more advanced train infrastructure such as in Japan, France and Germany. They still have a long way to go, especially when talking the fixed part, which happens to be far more expensive than the moving part, the trains.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Ken777
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:04 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
I think even freight rail won't begin to think about wider trains for a long, long time to come.

I don't see freight needing wider trains. They can carry containers today that can quickly be moved to a truck so the width of the roads the trucks will travel are more important than increasing rail width.

Capital investments in more efficient engines as well as current rail maintenance would IMO deliver better returns on the investments.
 
747400sp
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:23 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Capital investments in more efficient engines as well as current rail maintenance would IMO deliver better returns on the investments.

Let not rush into new more efficient locomotives engines, the current EMD 2 stokes and GE EVOs, work well and sound great. New trucks has already become too quite, and I love that even new locomotives, are loud.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:07 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 9):
A Superliner is pretty damn big, and it's restricted to operate only in certain areas (the vast majority of which are on the West Coast) due to clearance issues.

Not true. Superliners can operate anywhere west of the Mississippi, and most areas in the east south of Washington DC. The Capital Limited Chi - DC and the Autotrain Lorton VA - Sanford FL are Superliners. Most Amtrak trains in the east are Amflets & Viewliners because most of them go north of DC.

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iFlyLOTs
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
Shinkansen/Bullet trains run on standard gauge, but there have been proposals and studies to operate shinkansen vehicles on cape gauge tracks. Google "Super Tokkyu"

Interesting! Guess you learn something new every day!
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
Ken777
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 22):
Let not rush into new more efficient locomotives engines,

Airlines have benefitted from ongoing competitive R&D by aircraft engine companies. I see no reason why rail cannot look forward too ongoing improvements in the future.
 
PHX787
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RE: Could A Larger Rail Vehicle Work?

Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 20):
You are right - no rule without an exception. Quote from Wiki:
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 20):
satisfy specific U.S. governmental rolling stock requirements

Good ol gov'ment     

I think Texas has it right. Build a literal Shinkansen-style train from scratch.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 24):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
Shinkansen/Bullet trains run on standard gauge, but there have been proposals and studies to operate shinkansen vehicles on cape gauge tracks. Google "Super Tokkyu"

Interesting! Guess you learn something new every day!

I'm doing personal research on this with the hopes of introducing this to Arizona.
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