ltbewr
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NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:21 am

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup...tor-sprint-car-race-new-york-state

Alleged videos that have been posted have been pulled down.

I expect Stewart to be immediately and indefinitely suspended by NASCAR, his sponsors pull out, his team face financial ruin. There will be a terrible cloud over today's race at Watkins Glen.
 
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pvjin
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:38 am

Based on the videos it looks like the person who died just stood in middle of the track with cars passing nearby, I don't get why anyone would do such a dumb thing, it's like an accident waiting to happen. Probably the dark gear he was wearing didn't make noticing him any easier.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=969_1407652422

[Edited 2014-08-10 03:38:55]
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zanl188
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:45 am

Quoting ltbewr (Thread starter):
I expect Stewart to be immediately and indefinitely suspended by NASCAR, his sponsors pull out, his team face financial ruin. There will be a terrible cloud over today's race at Watkins Glen.

If it was intentional I expect it's manslaughter and a matter for the justice system.

This is more than "rubbin' and racin' "
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KFLLCFII
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Thread starter):
I expect Stewart to be immediately and indefinitely suspended by NASCAR, his sponsors pull out, his team face financial ruin.

Let's see...

Black suit against a black track in a dimly-lit tight corner when the driver is probably preparing his entry for the straightaway. And NOT expecting something so ridiculous as someone putting their life in immediate danger by walking to the very center of a drifting lane on an active turf track.

Any claim that this was even remotely intentional is absurd.  

And any claim that points to Stewart's car's rear end "kicking out" just before the impact as an indication of intent to do harm, I challenge you with this: Have you ever driven at higher speed on dirt? If Stewart even saw him out the corner of his eye at the last instant and he reflexively tries to corner just a little more to the left to avoid, guess which way the rear is going to "kick"? And if Stewart hadn't even done that, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say the guy wouldn't have had any legs left below the knees from a direct nose-on impact.

So I would counter-claim that all indications point to Stewart actively and reflexively making an attempt to avoid hitting him...not the other way around.
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zanl188
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:57 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):
Any claim that this was even remotely intentional is absurd.

Seems clear to me that the dead guy thought Stewart spun him out intentionally.. If so it stands to reason Stewart might give him a close shave on the next lap.. just for shaking his finger at him.

Rubbin' and Racin' gone wrong so to speak.
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yfbflyer
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:44 pm

I can't say that it looked intentional to me.

Getting out of your car and walking into traffic on a race track. I think we have a 2014 Darwin award nominee
 
photopilot
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:55 pm

Ok, a couple of things.

It would be quite natural for Stewart coming around to look at the car up against the guardrail that he had just collided with. That appears to have been just a pure racing incident.

There was a blue car that passed very close to the hit driver, only a fraction of a second before Stewart hits him. Did the blue car "unsight" Stewart so that he couldn't see that the guy was on the track until the last second. Then tries to swerve left, back end breaks right and clips the kid.

It's really hard to tell from the angles of the videos just what Stewarts view would have been, if any.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Thread starter):

I expect Stewart to be immediately and indefinitely suspended by NASCAR, his sponsors pull out, his team face financial ruin. There will be a terrible cloud over today's race at Watkins Glen.

I guess that's why he'll be racing today.
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ltbewr
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:35 pm

Stewart has announced a short time ago that he is not driving today, his car will be driven by another driver:

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup...race-hitting-killing-kevin-ward-jr

Apparently the light of day, realizing the gravity of his actions, probably in no way able to safely drive himself, likely advice from his PR, managers and others caused this. Of course, he may still face criminal charges, and very likely a major civil lawsuit, and his chance of getting into the Chase was poor anyway, so better to not drive today.
 
D L X
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:08 pm

That was really not smart of the guy getting out of his car, at night, wearing all black, and going out of his way to confront him. He literally walked right into Stewart's path.

What a sad, completely avoidable accident.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:12 pm

That guy should not have ran towards Stewart. I've never driven a sprint car (the off-road car, not the NASCAR) but from what I heard, the visibility on those things is a lot less than in a NASCAR, especially at night. That driver should've remained in his car. I don't think Stewart can be faulted as much on this as people say he should.
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:15 pm

Just saw the video on ESPN, and I don't see how anyone could place the blame completely on Tony. I think some of the blame can be placed on the other driver, as he got out of his car before [1] all of the others were slowed down completely for the caution, and [2] the safety crew arrived to assist him.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):
And any claim that points to Stewart's car's rear end "kicking out" just before the impact as an indication of intent to do harm, I challenge you with this: Have you ever driven at higher speed on dirt? If Stewart even saw him out the corner of his eye at the last instant and he reflexively tries to corner just a little more to the left to avoid, guess which way the rear is going to "kick"? And if Stewart hadn't even done that, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say the guy wouldn't have had any legs left below the knees from a direct nose-on impact.

So I would counter-claim that all indications point to Stewart actively and reflexively making an attempt to avoid hitting him...not the other way around.

You make a lot of sense in this post. A winged Sprint Car on dirt behaves much differently than your street car on asphalt. There may or may not have been negligence on the part of Stewart, that's not up to us to decide, but, as you said, the fact that the rear end kicked out doesn't tell us much. Just watch a sprint car race, the rear wheels kick out when power is applied and the wheels are turned. It's just a characteristic of the cars.

Also, consider that the wing on top of the car makes visibility out of the right side very poor. It doesn't help that the driver was wearing a dark suit, at night, on a dark track.

My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Kevin Ward Jr.
 
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Aesma
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:22 pm

It's good PR but also natural human behavior to not race just after a deadly incident, it doesn't indicate any responsibility.
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Mir
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:29 pm

It goes without saying that what Ward did was not very smart. However, Stewart is known to have a temper, and while I don't think for a moment that he wanted to injure the guy, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he was intentionally trying to send a message and things got out of control, in which case you could be talking about a manslaughter charge. It's clear in the video that Stewart revved his engine right before hitting him - was he trying to get clear of him quickly, or was there another reason for it?

In any case, not racing today was definitely the right thing for Stewart to do. That would have been extremely bad PR for him and NASCAR in general.

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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:11 pm

Disgusting that Smoke considered racing at Watkins Glen today. Also, they weren't racing Sprint Cup cars, how hard is it to maneuver around obstacles or stop at an Arca race? Has anyone read if the DA is looking at a homicide case here? ESPN is still showing the full video, but the youtube clip stops just short of the accident. Smoke has a long history of being a hot head. What a tragedy.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
It's clear in the video that Stewart revved his engine right before hitting him -

While there is indeed a sound of a car "revving" how do we know that it was Stewart's car? The mic that recorded the sound is on the camera looking across the track, the infield, then the outer track. We cannot see the close-side track (front straight) to know if the sound came from there or the backstretch. Hearing the clarity and volume of the "rev" on the audio, I actually think the sound came from much closer and another car.

Also, watching the "hit" over and over, it's clear that the rear end of Stewart's car kicks LEFT, that is to Stewart's left which is the opposite side to the guy who was hit. Watch it frame by frame and you can clearly see this.
So..... did the car kick because of the impact, or perhaps the loss of traction from the right-rear wheel going over the body?

[Edited 2014-08-10 09:28:37]
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):

Apparently the light of day, realizing the gravity of his actions, probably in no way able to safely drive himself, likely advice from his PR, managers and others caused this. Of course, he may still face criminal charges, and very likely a major civil lawsuit, and his chance of getting into the Chase was poor anyway, so better to not drive today.


It was an accident, getting out of your car to go after other drivers get you a vote for the Darwin Awards. He almost got hit by the car just ahead of Tony. Tony may never have even seen him. Seems to me that Wards temper got the best of him...

Hyperbole much on criminal charges???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ing-killing-driver-saturday-night/

“This is right now being investigated as an on-track crash and I don’t want to infer that there are criminal charges pending,” Povero said. “I would only say that the investigation–when it is completed, we will sit down with the district attorney and review it. But I want to make it very clear there are no criminal charges pending at this time. This is an ongoing investigation.”



Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
It's clear in the video that Stewart revved his engine right before hitting him - was he trying to get clear of him quickly, or was there another reason for it?

Revved or downshifted? Don't see how you could get that from the video anyway. All you hear is multiple engines revving.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 18):

I'm pretty sure the guy getting run over made the car kick. It's a dirt track. Doesn't take much to lose traction.

[Edited 2014-08-10 11:03:01]
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mham001
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 18):
Also, watching the "hit" over and over, it's clear that the rear end of Stewart's car kicks LEFT, that is to Stewart's left which is the opposite side to the guy who was hit. Watch it frame by frame and you can clearly see this.

That's what I saw the first time I watched it. I'm not getting the outrage. They steer these cars with throttle, it looks like he tried to kick his rear wheels around the Darwin award winner.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:21 pm

I suspect that NASCAR and other forms of racing may put in rules and penalties to encourage drivers involved in crashs that they must stay in or near their cars and not put themselves anywhere near any moving traffic as well as banning in-race taunting or finger pointing for all parties safety while the race is continuing, even under yellow.
Too bad, as too often with airline crashes, it takes another person getting killed or seriously injured before safety is improved.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:08 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Based on the videos it looks like the person who died just stood in middle of the track with cars passing nearby, I don't get why anyone would do such a dumb thing, it's like an accident waiting to happen.

Drivers do it all the time when they feel they've been wronged. Go on YouTube and check out Robby Gordon and Michael Waltrip's incident years back. Robby was ticked and threw his helmet at Michaels car.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 3):
If Stewart even saw him out the corner of his eye at the last instant and he reflexively tries to corner just a little more to the left to avoid, guess which way the rear is going to "kick"?

The problem is though if he revved his engine it's going to kick hard towards the guy who was hit. Those things have no transmission and a ton of power. Doesn't take much to make them slide.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
but from what I heard, the visibility on those things is a lot less than in a NASCAR, especially at night.

They have terrible visibility, but a Nascar cup car isn't much better. That's why they have spotters. You're pretty much in a body cast for 400 miles.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 14):
Also, they weren't racing Sprint Cup cars, how hard is it to maneuver around obstacles or stop at an Arca race?

Huh? This was Sprint cars, not ARCA. They have poor visibility and I doubt on dirt they handle real well.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
I suspect that NASCAR and other forms of racing may put in rules and penalties to encourage drivers involved in crashs that they must stay in or near their cars and not put themselves anywhere near any moving traffic as well as banning in-race taunting or finger pointing for all parties safety while the race is continuing, even under yellow.

I'm going to disagree with you there. NASCAR is in the entertainment business. When they can get a clip on Sportscenter of a driver getting out of a car and flipping off the driver who spun them out it is gold. NASCAR tries really hard to show they allow "Boys have at it." Even though for the most part it's crap.
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
I suspect that NASCAR and other forms of racing may put in rules and penalties to encourage drivers involved in crashs that they must stay in or near their cars and not put themselves anywhere near any moving traffic as well as banning in-race taunting or finger pointing for all parties safety while the race is continuing, even under yellow.

I don't watch NASCAR and I don't know enough about it to anticipate what they'll do, however I watch F1 and in it, all those things are forbidden and can net you huge fines and grid penalties or even bans. All FIA sanctioned events are the same, even doing doughnuts at the end of a race is illegal ! But since a couple of years a few drivers have done it without sanction.
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Okie
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
I suspect that NASCAR and other forms of racing may put in rules and penalties to encourage drivers involved in crashs that they must stay in or near their cars and not put themselves anywhere near any moving traffic as well as banning in-race taunting or finger pointing for all parties safety while the race is continuing, even under yellow

If you notice none of that takes place until after the cars are safely lined up single file behind the pace car.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
That driver should've remained in his car. I don't think Stewart can be faulted as much on this as people say he should.

Short of a fire or some other uncontrolled circumstance the driver should stay put until the field is lined up behind the pace car. The sprint cars idle about 35 mph give or take.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
I'm pretty sure the guy getting run over made the car kick. It's a dirt track. Doesn't take much to lose traction.

I have to agree. I am afraid the kick to the right was Ward getting caught under wheel/car.
The cars are set up to run circle track, the outside tires are larger diameter than inside, "gassing" the car would have made the car turn left not turn right.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
It was an accident, getting out of your car to go after other drivers get you a vote for the Darwin Awards. He almost got hit by the car just ahead of Tony. Tony may never have even seen him. Seems to me that Wards temper got the best of him...

  

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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:04 am

Yeah, I'm not seeing it being "Tony's fault". The driver that got out of his car and walked into the oncoming racing cars is at fault. He should have stayed in his car until it was safe and barring that cleared the track immediately. But he didn't, he chose to do the exact wrong thing any racer let alone a professional racer should do.

Do you blame the driver of the car on a freeway for killing someone that was running across it? No.

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Gatorman96
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:16 am

Ward is a complete fool for standing in the middle of the track after he spun out. I understand that adrenaline is running high, but what in the world does getting out of your car and pointing at another driver going to accomplish?

The only question I have, after watching the video, is whether Stewart turned into Ward, or if the force of the impact "pulled" Stewart's car to the right? Not sure if this can be proven or not, but again, the lion's share (if not all) of the fault falls on Ward for playing Frogger in the first place.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:10 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 22):
Yeah, I'm not seeing it being "Tony's fault". The driver that got out of his car and walked into the oncoming racing cars is at fault. He should have stayed in his car until it was safe and barring that cleared the track immediately. But he didn't, he chose to do the exact wrong thing any racer let alone a professional racer should do.

Do you blame the driver of the car on a freeway for killing someone that was running across it? No.

The blame on Tony Stewart comes from the popular belief by the entire internet that Tony Stewart intentionally revved his engine and got close to Ward to give him a scare.

Obviously the guy shouldn't have been walking on the track, but the question out there is whether Stewart made it worse by trying to taunt him. Tony Stewart is known to be a hot-head and his past only fuels the internet lynch mob.

As far as I'm concerned we simply cannot tell from the video and it's not up to us. Just saying people have their reasons to blame Stewart.
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Flighty
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:27 am

Goes like this. Young man calls Tony Stewart out with extreme swagger. Stewart sees this as a challenge to his manhood. Stewart decides to shave right next to the guy and spray him with dirt, and teach him a lesson. Both men fully enraged. I.e., road rage situation, but not intent to kill. But still, 10% chance of death, and Stewart knew that. Death occured. That's the Tony Stewart is responsible narrative. He wasn't oblivious to what was going on. The two men were actively fighting.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:56 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
Huh? This was Sprint cars, not ARCA. They have poor visibility and I doubt on dirt they handle real well.

I meant the type of car. It was a open wheel cars that run at Sprint or Nationwide. Huh yourself. Visibility or track suit whatever. This is gross that Smoke killed a fellow racer.
 
Mir
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:35 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
Drivers do it all the time when they feel they've been wronged. Go on YouTube and check out Robby Gordon and Michael Waltrip's incident years back. Robby was ticked and threw his helmet at Michaels car.

Big difference between throwing your helmet and walking into the middle of the track.

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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
I'm not getting the outrage.

NASCAR has a way of polarizing people that rivals the NFL.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
Goes like this. Young man calls Tony Stewart out with extreme swagger. Stewart sees this as a challenge to his manhood. Stewart decides to shave right next to the guy and spray him with dirt, and teach him a lesson. Both men fully enraged. I.e., road rage situation, but not intent to kill.

You were absolutely correct up until there:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
But still, 10% chance of death

Not even close. if it were a 10% chance of death, you'd hear about this happening twice a month.

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):

Big difference between throwing your helmet and walking into the middle of the track.

Bingo.
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 3):
Black suit against a black track in a dimly-lit tight corner when the driver is probably preparing his entry for the straightaway. And NOT expecting something so ridiculous as someone putting their life in immediate danger by walking to the very center of a drifting lane on an active turf track.
Quoting yfbflyer (Reply 5):
Getting out of your car and walking into traffic on a race track. I think we have a 2014 Darwin award nominee
Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
That was really not smart of the guy getting out of his car, at night, wearing all black, and going out of his way to confront him. He literally walked right into Stewart's path.
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 23):
Ward is a complete fool for standing in the middle of the track after he spun out.

If you do something that stupid and consequently get run over and then consequently die then it serves you right...
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 28):
Not even close. if it were a 10% chance of death, you'd hear about this happening twice a month.

Oh I mean the unusual event of the man being on foot in the middle of a track. Isn't it true that they were escalating a rage situation to a level rarely if ever seen?
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 26):
Huh yourself. Visibility or track suit whatever. This is gross that Smoke killed a fellow racer.

Yeah it is gross. But it doesn't mean it was intentional.

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Big difference between throwing your helmet and walking into the middle of the track.
http://youtu.be/guX8i5r7Knk?t=43s He did both.
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:47 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 31):
http://youtu.be/guX8i5r7Knk?t=43s He did both.

And this isn't only time this type of incident has happened in my memory and I'm just a casual NASCAR fan.
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:28 am

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 32):
And this isn't only time this type of incident has happened in my memory and I'm just a casual NASCAR fan.

At what point is it the racetracks responsibility (or NASCAR/the race authority)? I know they throw the yellow flag etc. to warn drivers but should there be more? A warning light in the car? Something else that would let drivers know of a situation like this (exposed person on the rack). Not saying it is something they must do but technology exists and it is not difficult to do.

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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:46 am

In the video there is a blue and white car just ahead of Stewart that has to swerve so he doesn't hit Kevin Ward himself. I think Stewart didn't see him until the last second.

[Edited 2014-08-10 21:49:40]
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:01 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 33):
Something else that would let drivers know of a situation like this (exposed person on the rack).

I think that in lieu of another system, it is absolutely incumbent on the driver to STAY IN THE DAMN CAR.

The angry driver that wants to show bravado is the least cost avoider.
 
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:28 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Based on the videos it looks like the person who died just stood in middle of the track with cars passing nearby, I don't get why anyone would do such a dumb thing, it's like an accident waiting to happen.

Drivers do it all the time when they feel they've been wronged. Go on YouTube and check out Robby Gordon and Michael Waltrip's incident years back. Robby was ticked and threw his helmet at Michaels car.

NASCAR vehicles are safer than those sprint cars because they don't have those tires jutting out like that.
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moo
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 20):
even doing doughnuts at the end of a race is illegal

No, doing doughnuts on the validated race track, as defined by the white lines on either side of the tarmac, is illegal for a number of reasons.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 20):
But since a couple of years a few drivers have done it without sanction.

Vettel was penalised the first time round because he did his doughnuts on the race track prior to proceeding to parc ferme -all subsequent times he elected to do his doughnuts on run off areas, which is perfectly acceptable.

Back on topic - this sport needs to take some rules from the FIA pretty much completely, such as drivers or stewards not approaching or crossing the track unless specifically allowed to by race control. Any attempt at blatant showmanship, which is what jeering and giving the finger is, should be dealt with harshly as it involves interacting with participants still in the race.

This person put himself in danger and paid the ultimate price - whatever else comes out, that fact should be heavily noted.
 
4holer
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
Goes like this. Young man calls Tony Stewart out with extreme swagger. Stewart sees this as a challenge to his manhood. Stewart decides to shave right next to the guy and spray him with dirt, and teach him a lesson. Both men fully enraged. I.e., road rage situation, but not intent to kill. But still, 10% chance of death, and Stewart knew that. Death occured. That's the Tony Stewart is responsible narrative. He wasn't oblivious to what was going on. The two men were actively fighting.

^^This.^^
I'd heard some reports that Stewart was wearing a GoPro camera on his helmet. Is that true? If so, or if other drivers did, that would be a very telling video.
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casinterest
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 34):
In the video there is a blue and white car just ahead of Stewart that has to swerve so he doesn't hit Kevin Ward himself. I think Stewart didn't see him until the last second.

It will be interesting to see other angles, but I tend to agree that Stewart couldn't see him. There is a big down tilting wing on the right side of Sprint Cars. The blue and white car's wing would have obscured quite a bit of Stewart's forward view until the last second. Especially if Stewart was directly behind or lower than the blue and white car on the track.
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mham001
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):

Goes like this. Young man calls Tony Stewart out with extreme swagger. Stewart sees this as a challenge to his manhood. Stewart decides to shave right next to the guy and spray him with dirt, and teach him a lesson. Both men fully enraged. I.e., road rage situation, but not intent to kill. But still, 10% chance of death, and Stewart knew that. Death occured. That's the Tony Stewart is responsible narrative. He wasn't oblivious to what was going on. The two men were actively fighting.

Except he doesn't do that. There is no evidence he "shaved" him, that would have required an earlier steering action or a rear right slide. Neither happened. He was also one car width from the inside line, so nowhere close to the spun car. Nor is there evidence they were "fighting", could be but you don't know that, there was no contact at the spin and choking off the line is a perfectly legal racing tactic.

I think the little rear kick to the left was the impact of the driver attaching himself to the right side of the wing, the cars weigh 1200 lbs. It takes 30-50 feet for him to disappear and reappear, that was not time spent under wheels.
 
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fxramper
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 31):
Yeah it is gross. But it doesn't mean it was intentional.

ESPN is saying Smoke has a history of violence with this driver and also aggressive driving style. I wouldn't be surprised if a charge was brought against Stewart...
 
Maverick623
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
ESPN is saying Smoke has a history of violence with this driver

I don't know how much of a racing history a 20-year old hothead would have with a veteran NASCAR driver.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
and also aggressive driving style.

Uh, yeah.... that's how you're supposed to race? What does that have to do with the kid getting run over?

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
I wouldn't be surprised if a charge was brought against Stewart...

I would be. You need a hell of a lot more than some ESPN ratings jockey making a claim that Stewart is "aggressive" and "has a history with a driver" to charge someone with a crime.
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Okie
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:08 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
ESPN

After hundreds of hours of endless banter about Labron James, Johnny Manziel, and Tiger Woods, ESPN has finally come up with a new topic Tony Stewart.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
ESPN is saying Smoke has a history of violence with this driver and also aggressive driving style.

Racing is a competition, they do not hand out trophies for all the participants.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
I wouldn't be surprised if a charge was brought against Stewart...

I would be seriously surprised if they did. Ward was the one out of his car taunting the other drivers, the car before Stewart's had to dodge him as well. All appearances is that Ward had lost his composure.
We do not know what goes on in the drivers meeting before the race but I suspect there is some conversation about staying in your car until the safety equipment arrives and the other cars are in line behind the pace car.
I have attended quite a few dirt track races and seen plenty on the tube and I sure cannot remember anyone getting out of their racing equipment until the track workers arrive or the other cars are lined up behind the pace car.



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Boeing717200
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
Goes like this. Young man calls Tony Stewart out with extreme swagger. Stewart sees this as a challenge to his manhood. Stewart decides to shave right next to the guy and spray him with dirt, and teach him a lesson. Both men fully enraged. I.e., road rage situation, but not intent to kill. But still, 10% chance of death, and Stewart knew that. Death occured. That's the Tony Stewart is responsible narrative. He wasn't oblivious to what was going on. The two men were actively fighting.

Kid stays in the car and he's alive today. It's a slick track and the view of his feet is blocked. He could have slipped at the worst possible moment for all we know.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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777Jet
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:23 am

Perhaps it is time for the misleading title of this thread to be changed to something more appropriate, such as, "Stupid driver who had temper tantrum and walked onto racetrack towards oncoming vehicles during race gets run over and dies"...???
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jetblueguy22
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 41):
ESPN is saying Smoke has a history of violence with this driver and also aggressive driving style. I wouldn't be surprised if a charge was brought against Stewart...

ESPN is the tabloid of the sports world. He does have an aggressive driving style. So did the late Dale Earnhardt, but it doesn't mean they are criminals. He isn't violent. Does he have a temper? Yeah. But it's the result of having a Type-A personality, like many sports stars.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42):
I don't know how much of a racing history a 20-year old hothead would have with a veteran NASCAR driver.

I would wager almost none.

The Sheriff said today he doesn't foresee any charges being brought against Tony and they don't believe ,at this time, there was criminal intent. It's just an unfortunate situation.
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LittleFokker
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:18 am

I don't follow racing much at all, so don't call me an expert. The video is certainly inconclusive and a further investigation should be done. The little I do know of Tony Stewart, well, I'll just say that his reputation is not going to help him out here.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
ltbewr
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:44 am

Why did Ward want to confront Stewart ? Very simple, Stewart caused a wreck of Ward's car that in turn caused Ward to likely lose a number of weeks pay in damage to his car by a guy worth millions.
 
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moo
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RE: NASCAR's Tony Stewart Kills Other Driver In A Race

Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 48):

Why did Ward want to confront Stewart ? Very simple, Stewart caused a wreck of Ward's car that in turn caused Ward to likely lose a number of weeks pay in damage to his car by a guy worth millions.

That doesn't justify running out into the middle of an active race track...

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