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747400sp
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Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:01 am

I was think about, how many taxi cabs, are now Toyota Priuses, but there are still a good amount of Ford Crown Victoria and Chevy Impalas cabs on the road. I also thought about people who would want a full hybrid electric full size car, but do not want to pay the price of a Tesla Type S. So is it time for a affordable full hybrid electric full size car? Such a car could likely sale very well, and have a large contract with a taxi cab company like Yellow Cab.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:15 am

From my experiences in New York the taxi cab vehicles are:
Ford Crown Victoria
Ford Escape (hybrid and non-hybrid)
Ford C-Max Hybrid
Toyota Camry Hybrid
Toyota Prius
Ford Fusion Hybrid (possibly also non-hybrid)

I'm sure there are some missing but thats what I saw from personal experience. The thing about hybrids is they're built to be efficient, economical, and practical. Part of that is having a hatch and the ability to fold down the rear seats for extra cargo and most hybrids that I know of are built like this. A full-size sedan hybrid might sell well with taxi operators, but the general public I'm not sure.
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BMI727
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:43 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I also thought about people who would want a full hybrid electric full size car, but do not want to pay the price of a Tesla Type S.

A Tesla is not a hybrid.
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Aesma
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:55 am

In Europe I'm not even sure we have the concept of a "full size" car and they certainly are not numerous on the roads so that's not a priority for a manufacturer. The chevy volt and opel ampera sedans are already extremely rare, while I see Prius and Renault Zoe every day. I've seen several Prius+ taxis (the minivan Prius).
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:05 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

Is there a hybrid S-class Mercedes?

People that want space & comfort aren't concerned about gimmicks such as hybrids.
Modern V8 engines today are very efficient - and so are modern 4-engine jetliners.  
Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
In Europe I'm not even sure we have the concept of a "full size" car

Here are a few European full-sized cars;

Mercedes S-class
BMW S-series
Jaguar XJ
Audi A8
Maserati Quattroporte
ZIL-41047
Rolls Royce

Not sure if there is a hybrid version of the S-class, A8 or 7-series.
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na
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:45 am

What exactly is "affordable"? That is very personal.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Is there a hybrid S-class Mercedes?

Sure. Introduced in 2011, on the IAA. I sat in it on its premiere.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:03 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
So is it time for a affordable full hybrid electric full size car?

A manufacturer does not just wake up and say 'ok, time to make this technology affordable' and then start putting out a product.

Affordability of new technology, or even some old technology, depends on investors, early adopters, innovation, streamlimed production, efficient supply chains, market penetration, among many other factors. It's a business problem.

So, while it may be time (in your opinion) for an 'affordable' (there's a loaded, subjective word) full electric car, it still has several technological and business hurdles to leap over.

How long did it take big-screen LED/LCD TV's to become 'affordable'?
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yowza
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:40 pm

The Tesla X is set to come in at around $35K. That's affordable and looks to be a very comfortable car.

YOWza
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 7):
The Tesla X is set to come in at around $35K. That's affordable

That is still not affordable for large segments of the population.
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Aesma
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Mercedes S-class
BMW S-series
Jaguar XJ
Audi A8
Maserati Quattroporte
ZIL-41047
Rolls Royce

That was kind of my point, mostly expensive cars, certainly not someone average would buy. When an hybrid exists, it's even more expensive, and not really economical. There are smaller and cheaper sedans but they're still not big sellers, not what I'd expect to be a priority for hybrids, especially considering the battery size challenge. For example the Peugeot 508 hybrid is the 508 RXH, based on the station wagon not the sedan (and expensive to the point of uselessness).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
People that want space & comfort aren't concerned about gimmicks such as hybrids.

And in Europe, they buy minivans or SUVs or crossovers or SWs, not sedans.
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
In Europe I'm not even sure we have the concept of a "full size" car

I read that as you not being sure what a "full-size" car is.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
mostly expensive cars, certainly not someone average would buy.

Those are full-sized cars that just so happen to be luxury cars.
Ford, GM & Chrysler makes full-sized sedans that are not expensive luxury cars.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
And in Europe,

Not sure if this tread was even about Europe. The cars mentioned by the OP were never even sold in Europe.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
When an hybrid exists, it's even more expensive, and not really economical.

Hybrids are for people with extra money to burn. It's to make them feel like they're doing something good for the planet. It's sort of like paying for indulgences during the Roman Empire.
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IH8BY
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
For example the Peugeot 508 hybrid is the 508 RXH, based on the station wagon not the sedan (and expensive to the point of uselessness).

There is a 508 diesel hybrid sedan as well which is considerably cheaper than the RXH. I don't think the problem is that it's a hybrid. The problem is the type of car it is. In Europe the mainstream family sedans and station wagons aren't as dominant as they used to be. Families are smaller, more people are using public transport, and those families who still have a 'family car' are embracing crossovers or smaller cars, as they are in the US. Wagons are just about holding in there, but sedans are only really seen in the 'executive' car market. Only a few sell in decent numbers, and even the likes of the Mondeo and the Insignia are becoming rarer sights. As for mainstream larger sedans, the disappearance of the Ford Scorpio, Opel Omega, and Peugeot 60x tells its own story...
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teme82
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Mercedes S-class

There is also E-class hybrid   I drive one at work  
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compensateme
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:59 pm

FWIW, we have a Chevy Volt.

The maximum range I can get from the battery is in the high 50s (miles); that number can only be achieved in high 60+ degree F temperatures and in city traffic. Using the radio will shave a couple miles off as will using the air conditioning on low speed (anything higher will have a more significant impact). In the winter, the range is much shorter -- when temperatures dropped well below 0 F this past winter, I was only getting into the high teens (non-highway), and that was with the heater on just low. Had it been on medium... I probably would've been lucky to get into the low teens (non-highway). Obviously this past winter was the harshest on record in many many years.

Highway speeds devastate the battery. Just as an example... I'm pursuing my post-graduate degree in Detroit, and the campus is about 30 miles south of my home. The commute is mostly highly, at speeds of 70 MPH (and average speed closer to 80 MPH) and I can make it from my house to the parking garage in about 35 minutes traveling at posted speeds (assuming no traffic). However... the battery will die before a few miles before I make it to campus (and that's in the summer). Alternatively, I can travel city roads, which adds 15-20 minutes extra to my commute - but I can make the round-trip on battery only (again, in the summer). I typically do this, but the extra commute is negated by heavier traffic on the freeway in one direction, so ultimately it only "costs" me 15-20 minutes extra.

The Volt comes with a Level 1 (120V) charger take takes about 10-12 hours to charge the battery; a Level 2 (240V) takes 3-4. A quality 240V charger can be found for as low as $500, and the cost for electrician about $1000 in most areas. Plus there's the cost of permits and inspection, which will average $100.

Including taxes and fees, in my area, it costs about $2 per charge. However, my utility offers special rates if you have a L2 charger and link the car to its own meter (which cost about $200 to install); the reduced rate is from 11PM-6AM Monday through Thursday and the entire weekend from 11PM Friday to 6AM Monday. It averages out to 75 cents per charge off-peak and $3 per charge peak. Over the past two years, my Volt has averaged 40 miles per charge, virtually all of it off-peak; a similar car would average 25 MPG, with gas averaging $3.65/gallon in my area. So yes, quite a savings.

There are plenty of public charging stations in my area, most currently free, but unless you're going to be parked awhile, they're not of much help (although Nissan has installed 440V charging stations in several spots--but you need a special adapter, which the Volt does not use). Additionally, the public charging stations are almost always located in spots conveniently located closest to the entrance (adjacent to handicap) to reward "green" drivers but... non-electric cars are almost always parked there instead, even if the adjacent spot (with no charging station) is vacant. God forbid you have to walk an extra 5 feet! And thus far, there's no enforcement of non-electric cars in these spaces.

Bottom line... while there's plenty of benefits of electric cars, you're still paying to go green, and electric cars are not yet ready for the mainstream.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:14 pm

As part of an Economic Analysis course I took, I was assigned to compare any four vehicle options for a fictional company. They gave me the details and specs they wanted (at least 5 seats, "X" space). I decided on a hybrid sedan, a regular sedan, a hybrid minivan, and a regular minivan. The result? The conventional sedan would end up being the most economic option (assuming you're not going for a luxury vehicle...there's no way a regular Mercedes will be more economical than a Toyota Prius, for instance, at least in the short term).

So while this is a bit discouraging, in reality it's up to how each person uses their car. I have short commute to work (no more than 20 minutes depending on traffic conditions) so I really didn't have a need for a Prius no matter how much of a treehugger I may be. That being said, a Prius would definitely help me whenever I go to downtown St. Louis and surrounding areas which are over 30 minutes away on the Interstate...at 60-70mph. Should we experience another oil shock a la 2008, my Rio will probably be traded in faster than Concorde's cruising speed.

It's only in places where gas prices are above the national average or in places where you really have to commute that a hybrid or electric car really becomes a more economic option in the long run.
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Rara
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Not sure if this tread was even about Europe.

I guess not. As some others have mentioned, full size cars never really existed in Europe.

In a way, bringing a hybrid full size car to market is a specific American challenge. In Europe, customers associate large cars with high prices and a premium equipment anyway, so the price of hybrid engines doesn't factor in as much.
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting teme82 (Reply 12):
There is also E-class hybrid I drive one at work

The E-class is a mid-sized sedan.

Quoting Rara (Reply 15):
In a way, bringing a hybrid full size car to market is a specific American challenge.

No challenge at all. No one would want it. That would be a waste of time, money & effort for any manufacture to make one. Only the environmentalist worry about this sort of nonsense an they're already happy with their little Prius.
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teme82
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:21 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
The E-class is a mid-sized sedan.

Actually the C-class is mid-sized sedan.  
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:51 am

Quoting teme82 (Reply 17):
Actually the C-class is mid-sized sedan.

Nope.
The C-class is a compact.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
BMW S-series

Correction;
That is to say BMW 7-series.
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Rara
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
No challenge at all. No one would want it.

Well that makes it a challenge then.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 15):

I guess not. As some others have mentioned, full size cars never really existed in Europe.

The Bentley Flying Spur and Mulsanne as well as the Rolls Royce Ghost and Phantom might disagree. If we go on the Continent, you have the Audi A8, the VW Phaeton, (formerly) the Peugot 607, and the Citroen C6, off the top of my head.
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Rara
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:26 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 20):
The Bentley Flying Spur and Mulsanne as well as the Rolls Royce Ghost and Phantom might disagree. If we go on the Continent, you have the Audi A8, the VW Phaeton, (formerly) the Peugot 607, and the Citroen C6, off the top of my head.

There are large cars, of course, but these are all luxury automobiles. The market segment of a very large car without luxury equipment (a.k.a. full-size car) doesn't really exist in Europe.
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:35 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 19):
Well that makes it a challenge then.

Not a challenge at all if no one wants it an no manufacture is attempting to make one. I guess you can call it a non-existent challenge.  
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 20):
The Bentley Flying Spur and Mulsanne as well as the Rolls Royce Ghost and Phantom might disagree. If we go on the Continent, you have the Audi A8, the VW Phaeton, (formerly) the Peugot 607, and the Citroen C6, off the top of my head.

  

Quoting Rara (Reply 21):
The market segment of a very large car without luxury equipment (a.k.a. full-size car) doesn't really exist in Europe.

How did this thread turn in to a thread about Europe? The OP clearly is talking about models as well as taxi companies in North America. Totally different continent. Totally different market.

Just hush it with this Europe nonsense.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:02 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Ford, GM & Chrysler makes full-sized sedans that are not expensive luxury cars.

Do Ford, GM and Chrysler make full size cars? I was under the impression the last full size car was the Crown Vic, they don't make them anymore, they haven't replaced it either. So the question to be asked is there a market for a fullsized family car in the US, I think the answer is no.

Quoting Rara (Reply 21):
The market segment of a very large car without luxury equipment (a.k.a. full-size car) doesn't really exist in Europe.

I don't think that marklet exists anywhere anymore, hence the reason why Ford never replaced the Crown Vic.The market did exit in Europe but died in the 70's after the first oil crisis, it just took the US a lot longer to kill off their dino's.

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 11):
As for mainstream larger sedans, the disappearance of the Ford Scorpio, Opel Omega, and Peugeot 60x tells its own story...

They don't exist anymore because the premium Germans A6, E Class & 5 series, killed the market for non premium large sedans and wagons.

Quoting teme82 (Reply 17):
Actually the C-class is mid-sized sedan.

No it's not, it's a compact sedan, like the A4 and 3 Series, mid size is E Class, A6 and 5 Series.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Do Ford, GM and Chrysler make full size cars?


Yes. Chevrolet still makes the Caprice, although it's for sale to police departments only. The Impala is a full-size, though, and it's available to consumers. Otherwise you have the Buick Park Avenue, the Cadillac XTS, the current generation Ford Taurus, the Lincoln MKS, the Chrysler 300, and the Dodge Charger.

[Edited 2014-08-14 08:58:21]
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Rara
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Not a challenge at all if no one wants it an no manufacture is attempting to make one. I guess you can call it a non-existent challenge.  

If no-one is attempting to make one, I guess it's too much of a challenge then.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
How did this thread turn in to a thread about Europe? The OP clearly is talking about models as well as taxi companies in North America. Totally different continent. Totally different market.

Just hush it with this Europe nonsense.

If you keep responding, you can turn any thread into a thread about Europe. Aesma brought the subject up in reply #3, true, but you jumped right onto it.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):

I don't think that marklet exists anywhere anymore, hence the reason why Ford never replaced the Crown Vic.The market did exit in Europe but died in the 70's after the first oil crisis, it just took the US a lot longer to kill off their dino's.

If affordable full-size cars don't exist anywhere anymore, then it's a moot point discussion whether they be equipped with a hybrid engine.
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 24):
Chevrolet still makes the Caprice, although it's for sale to police departments only. The Impala is a full-size, though, and it's available to consumers. Otherwise you have the Buick Park Avenue, the Cadillac XTS, the current generation Ford Taurus, the Lincoln MKS, the Chrysler 300, and the Dodge Charger.

I think you meant to say Buick Lucerne - the replacement for the Park Avenue.
Of the cars you mentioned, I doubt any of those buyers would be interested in a hybrid version.
Chrysler talked about making a 300 hybrid a few years ago but I guess decided it would be foolish to go forward with a 300 that doesn't live up to 300 standards.
Not really a "challenge" as one member would say considering these are smarter buyers that are well aware of what a hybrids shortcomings are.

Quoting Rara (Reply 25):
If no-one is attempting to make one, I guess it's too much of a challenge then.

Some people are just really bored an like to argue I guess.   

Quoting Rara (Reply 25):
If you keep responding, you can turn any thread into a thread about Europe. Aesma brought the subject up in reply #3, true, but you jumped right onto it.

...and you jumped in an kept going an going an going. Stay on topic.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
I was under the impression the last full size car was the Crown Vic,

Nope. That was just a larger full-sized car built with a traditional body-on-frame construction. The interior dimensions of Taurus is still considered a full-size.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):

I think you meant to say Buick Lucerne - the replacement for the Park Avenue.

Nope, I meant the Park Avenue, 'fly. Buick no longer makes the Lucerne (2011 was the last model year), but brought back the Park Avenue nameplate. It's only for sale in China currently, though.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Buick_Park_Avenue_China_2012-05-27.JPG/1280px-Buick_Park_Avenue_China_2012-05-27.JPG

Of the nameplates I listed, the only one I could see buyers wanting a hybrid version of might be the Taurus and I think that's a stretch considering Ford offers the Fusion in both a gasoline-electric and plug-in hybrid versions. I am a little surprised that of the Big 3, Mopar hasn't touched the hybrid market at all. Part of that, of course, could be their financial woes following the split with Daimler-Benz, the sale to Cerberus, and the subsequent sale to Fiat.

[Edited 2014-08-14 11:48:07]
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Kiwirob
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 24):
Otherwise you have the Buick Park Avenue, the Cadillac XTS, the current generation Ford Taurus, the Lincoln MKS, the Chrysler 300, and the Dodge Charger.

They aren't really full size, they aren't 60's & 70's fullsize. Compared to what went before they are midsize. The Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Chrysler 300 are all around the same size as A6, E Class & 5 Series, which makes them midsize.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
The interior dimensions of Taurus is still considered a full-size.

Is it interior or exterior dimensions which determine a vehicles size. I would go with external.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):

Is it interior or exterior dimensions which determine a vehicles size. I would go with external.

Nay. By definition it's internal. Per the US Code of Federal Regulations (2014 40 CFR 600.315.08):

§600.315-08 Classes of comparable automobiles.

(a) The Secretary will classify automobiles as passenger automobiles or light trucks (nonpassenger automobiles) in accordance with 49 CFR part 523.

(1) The Administrator will classify passenger automobiles by car line into one of the following classes based on interior volume index or seating capacity except for those passenger automobiles which the Administrator determines are most appropriately placed in a different classification or classed as special purpose vehicles as provided in paragraph (a)(3) of this section.

(i) Two seaters. A car line shall be classed as “Two Seater” if the majority of the vehicles in that car line have no more than two designated seating positions as such term is defined in the regulations of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Department of Transportation (DOT), 49 CFR 571.3.

(ii) Minicompact cars. Interior volume index less than 85 cubic feet.

(iii) Subcompact cars. Interior volume index greater than or equal to 85 cubic feet but less than 100 cubic feet.

(iv) Compact cars. Interior volume index greater than or equal to 100 cubic feet but less than 110 cubic feet.

(v) Midsize cars. Interior volume index greater than or equal to 110 cubic feet but less than 120 cubic feet.

(vi) Large cars. Interior volume index greater than or equal to 120 cubic feet.

(vii) Small station wagons. Station wagons with interior volume index less than 130 cubic feet.

(viii) Midsize station wagons. Station wagons with interior volume index greater than or equal to 130 cubic feet but less than 160 cubic feet.

(ix) Large station wagons. Station wagons with interior volume index greater than or equal to 160 cubic feet.
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Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:53 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 27):
Nope, I meant the Park Avenue, 'fly. Buick no longer makes the Lucerne (2011 was the last model year), but brought back the Park Avenue nameplate. It's only for sale in China currently, though.

Glad the Park Avenue nameplate is back. That looks like a dressed up Caprice.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):
Is it interior or exterior dimensions which determine a vehicles size. I would go with external.

I thought the same too. It's by internal dimensions. Hard to believe but a lot of the down-sized large cars of the 1980s had more interior room than the 1970s predecessors.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:01 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
Glad the Park Avenue nameplate is back. That looks like a dressed up Caprice.

And they are both Holden Statesman's.
 
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:23 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 27):
Nope, I meant the Park Avenue, 'fly. Buick no longer makes the Lucerne (2011 was the last model year), but brought back the Park Avenue nameplate. It's only for sale in China currently, though.

Good God, that's just a Holden Caprice with a fancy grill on it! Although it does appear that the China are models are built in Shanghai.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
And they are both Holden Statesman's.

Holden Caprice now. Holden retired the Statesman badge in 2011.

In the past they had used Commodore as the base model full size, Calais as the luxury full size, Statesman as the base model long wheel-base, Caprice as the luxury long wheel-base. They simplified the line to just Commodore and Caprice. I would guess the Caprice badge was kept just to keep it in use, as it is a trademark associated with General Motors for decades.

Of course this is somewhat moot as they are going to stop building them in two years. I wonder if they will continue to market the Chevrolet Caprice to the police, or just let that die along with the Australian models? (the cop cars are built at the soon-to-be closed Melbourne plant)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:39 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
And they are both Holden Statesman's.

  

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Good God, that's just a Holden Caprice with a fancy grill on it! Although it does appear that the China are models are built in Shanghai.

Correction.
I think you meant to say; Good God, that's a gorgeous Holden Caprice with a Buick grill on it!
That has been the case for decades with General Motors in the United States. The Buick was a more dressed up Chevrolet. The Cadillac being the most dressed up. The Pontiac being the more sporty version and the Oldsmobile somewhere in between but used to be the experimental division of GM.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Of course this is somewhat moot as they are going to stop building them in two years.

Not moot at all. Those cars will be around for a very long time after that factory closes.
Speaking of Aussie cars, a former co-worker of mines is selling his 1975 Ford Falcon XB sedan. It's gorgeous but it only has the base 250 inline 6. I want the 351cu".
That would be a cool car to drive around Bangkok.
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Aesma
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:19 am

I brought up Europe because here we're really trying to reduce our CO2 emissions. Gasoline is too cheap in the US for hybrids to really make sense there.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:26 am

Have fun with that.
Give us your Jaguars, Rolls Royce, S600s & Porsche and we'll give you Al Gore in exchange.
That's what I call fair trade.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
The Pontiac being the more sporty version

Not any more, 'fly. As you note, Olds is gone, but Pontiac went dark back in 2010. I'm not sure who's taken the "sporty" badge over in the GM lineup. GM, at least domestically, consists only of Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC. Gone are Geo, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Hummer.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:46 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):
Have fun with that.
Give us your Jaguars, Rolls Royce, S600s & Porsche and we'll give you Al Gore in exchange.
That's what I call fair trade.

You're supposedly in Thailand, where the coastline is receding, and the capital is sinking, but I guess a big car is worth it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 36):
Not any more, 'fly. As you note, Olds is gone, but Pontiac went dark back in 2010. I'm not sure who's taken the "sporty" badge over in the GM lineup. GM, at least domestically, consists only of Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC. Gone are Geo, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Hummer.

Well aware of the above.
Chevrolet would be the "sporty" an "econo" brand at GM.
Good riddance to Hummer an Saturn.
Bring back the Concorde
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
Well aware of the above.
Chevrolet would be the "sporty" an "econo" brand at GM.
Good riddance to Hummer an Saturn.

Apologies, 'fly - given your penchant for cars of 40-50 years ago as well as your relo to Thailand, I wasn't sure how closely you were following the American auto industry of the last 4-5 years.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:27 pm

Superfly should love this car. The mileage isn't great, but I'd love to see this thing.


Shelby Daytona with 1000 foot pounds of torque.

http://jalopnik.com/the-renovo-coupe...shelby-with-1-000-lb-ft-1621969757




The Hybrid market's sweet spot will always depend on a high price of gas transition for high mileage drivers. The added costs to support the Electric and Gas hybrid is not going to be cost effective. The end market for a competitive eco mobile is still with a fully Electric Car.

Electric cars still have an issue with mileage, charging, and cost. As these barriers erode, the electric cars will help the market out, and interestingly enough will probably enhance the beauty of owning a gas car as the reduced demand for gasoline will drive down the costs.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
You're supposedly in Thailand,

Been here 4 years now. I can even eat durian fruit.  
Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
the coastline is receding, and the capital is sinking, but I guess a big car is worth it.

Oh well. Too bad so sad.  
At least most people here including my building has boats to get us around when it floods. It's worked before.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 39):
Apologies, 'fly - given your penchant for cars of 40-50 years ago as well as your relo to Thailand, I wasn't sure how closely you were following the American auto industry of the last 4-5 years.

I still pay a lot of attention to the auto industry. I know a lot of people in the automotive sector in the Eastern Seaboard.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 40):
Superfly should love this car. The mileage isn't great, but I'd love to see this thing.


No vinyl roof?
Bring back the Concorde
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
Oh well. Too bad so sad.  

Same-same.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
my building has boats to get us around when it floods

Are they full size, V8 powered boats ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 42):
Same-same.

Haha!  
Quoting Aesma (Reply 43):
Are they full size, V8 powered boats ?

There are a few around.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Correction.
I think you meant to say; Good God, that's a gorgeous Holden Caprice with a Buick grill on it!

I'll go with that   It's definitely a good looking car
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
747400sp
Topic Author
Posts: 3900
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 36):
Not any more, 'fly. As you note, Olds is gone, but Pontiac went dark back in 2010. I'm not sure who's taken the "sporty" badge over in the GM lineup. GM, at least domestically, consists only of Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC. Gone are Geo, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Hummer.

Well aware of the above.
Chevrolet would be the "sporty" an "econo" brand at GM.
Good riddance to Hummer an Saturn.

Go riddance to Geo and Saturn with the exception of the Sky, I liked that sport car. Hummer was a good high end brand for GM, too bad they could not sale enough trucks to save them.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Do Ford, GM and Chrysler make full size cars? I was under the impression the last full size car was the Crown Vic, they don't make them anymore, they haven't replaced it either. So the question to be asked is there a market for a fullsized family car in the US, I think the answer is no.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 24):
Otherwise you have the Buick Park Avenue, the Cadillac XTS, the current generation Ford Taurus, the Lincoln MKS, the Chrysler 300, and the Dodge Charger.

They aren't really full size, they aren't 60's & 70's fullsize. Compared to what went before they are midsize. The Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Chrysler 300 are all around the same size as A6, E Class & 5 Series, which makes them midsize.

You are right about todays full size cars, being the size of a midsize car from 60s or 70s in length and width, but not in height or body thinkness. Todays full size cars are taller, with a thicker body line, that could cover your sholders. Yes, the Crown Victoria was long, but it only had a 114 ft wheel base, and Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger have a 120+ ft wheel base. Drive a 300 or a Charger, and you will know that you are driving a full size car.
 
Superfly
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:49 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 45):
I'll go with that It's definitely a good looking car

Yes! I wish it could be sold in the US as a Buick.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 46):
Go riddance to Geo and Saturn with the exception of the Sky, I liked that sport car.

  
Typical GM. Once they get something right, they kill it.
Saturns were all plastic, goofy looking cars. Once they got the Sky, they finally had a decent looking car.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 46):
Hummer was a good high end brand for GM,

I dunno if I'd call them high-end. I never understood the reason for Hummer. I saw them as low-class, gangster rapper vehicles. They were just compromised Suburbans with lots of plastic cladding.



Quoting 747400sp (Reply 46):
Yes, the Crown Victoria was long, but it only had a 114 ft wheel base,

That allowed for tight turning radius which is ideal in city driving.
The Lincoln Town Car 'L-series' had a 6" longer wheel-base.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 47):
I wish it could be sold in the US as a Buick.

I wish we could have Buick here in Australia! I really do like pretty much their entire US model range.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Affordable Full Hybrid Electric Full Size Car?

Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:46 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 48):
I wish we could have Buick here in Australia!

I wish Australia would export their Holdens an Fords here to Thailand.
The lucky ducks I know at the Australian Embassy here in Bangkok get to have their cars imported for free without paying any shipping or duties. Those c-nts all brought over Mercedes, BMWs an Toyotas - cars you can get an another country!   
When I asked if any could bring over Holdens and Fords, they acted a bit snobbish an had a derogatory B-word for Aussies that drive those kind of cars. They were just as arrogant an snobbish as our US State Department people from DC that also get the same perk at the US taxpayers expense.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 48):
I really do like pretty much their entire US model range.

I've always liked Buick an in some cases were better than the more elite Cadillac.

BTW, is there much value for a 1975 Ford Falcon sedan?
Bring back the Concorde

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