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Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 pm



        

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbwTMJroTbI

Wow... Just straight out coldcocked her....

And such care and tenderness with her limp body afterwards....

Also indefinitely suspended by the NFL. Way to late for them to be praised, but hopefully will end the thuggishness we sometimes see the players display with others. Well deserved cutting and longer suspension.

Wonder if his wife will stand by him now that he is unemployed (and likely unemployable)....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...more-ravens-cut-ray-rice/15291729/

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/0...o-shows-ray-rice-punching-fiancee/

Tugg

[Edited 2014-09-08 12:20:06]
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:49 pm

What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:52 pm

Look at that video. Then look at it again. It is hard to watch when you realize it's not a movie, it's real life.

I for one will never think about the term "domestic violence" again the same way. When I hear that phrase, I won't think of the PG way it is described in movies and TV, with a cut here, a bloody nose there. I'll think of this. Knocked out, her unconscious body dragged around.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

I think you'd be surprised. There are studies about just how "loyal" (for lack of a better word) abused women are to their abusers.

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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

Money........ it solves and causes a lot of problems.

There is also the fact that some people don't see the abuse, and ignore it. Even when they are the victim of it.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 4):
There is also the fact that some people don't see the abuse, and ignore it. Even when they are the victim of it.

Part of being a victim is the mental side of it - many probably think they are to blame.

I mean, I'm not in their shoes, so I obviously don't know everything there is to know about their relationship. She wants to marry Ray Rice, Rihanna wants to date Chris Brown, OK, whatever. I just hope they are able to view everything objectively and make sound decisions.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

                 
Which is why I wonder if she will stay. Which is both sad and bad in and of itself if I am right.

Quoting d l x (Reply 2):
Look at that video. Then look at it again. It is hard to watch when you realize it's not a movie, it's real life.

I for one will never think about the term "domestic violence" again the same way. When I hear that phrase, I won't think of the PG way it is described in movies and TV, with a cut here, a bloody nose there. I'll think of this. Knocked out, her unconscious body dragged around.

Her head freakin' hits the rail in the elevator! Not that it makes it any more acceptable that he didn't but it could have killed her.

He is lucky. Even though he lost his job and will likely not play again and will not earn money like he has (hope he's got good investments because he ain't gonna live on his "star power" after this), he is lucky.

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):

I mean, I'm not in their shoes, so I obviously don't know everything there is to know about their relationship. She wants to marry Ray Rice, Rihanna wants to date Chris Brown, OK, whatever. I just hope they are able to view everything objectively and make sound decisions.

Look, everyone deserves a second chance, and it is her decision to give it, but judging by the power of that hit, I have to think this is not the first time she has given Ray another chance.

Hopefully the abuse has ended, and if it hasn't, hopefully she gets out of the situation.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Also indefinitely suspended by the NFL. Way to late for them to be praised, but hopefully will end the thuggishness we sometimes see the players display with others. Well deserved cutting and longer suspension.

I'm bothered by both the initial two game suspension, and I'm also bothered by this subsequent punishment. First, the initial suspension was too light, and should have been suspended at least the whole season, if not longer. Second, does this video change anything about what we already knew about the case? The suspension was because he abused his wife very severely and the fact that the video was leaked to the public doesn't change that. Did the NFL/Ravens not get an opportunity to watch the video privately earlier?

The initial suspension was bad in its over leniency, now this indefinite suspension makes the NFL look worse.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 8):
I'm bothered by both the initial two game suspension, and I'm also bothered by this subsequent punishment. First, the initial suspension was too light, and should have been suspended at least the whole season, if not longer. Second, does this video change anything about what we already knew about the case? The suspension was because he abused his wife very severely and the fact that the video was leaked to the public doesn't change that. Did the NFL/Ravens not get an opportunity to watch the video privately earlier?

The NFL states that no they did not, and officially they probably did not. However someone is saying they did. Still bad.

As to what the video changes.... well it removes all doubt that she may have in some way - attacked him in the elevator, hit and hit sand hit him, slipped of her feet and knocked herself out, whatever - contributed to her situation. Not that it would have excused him in anyway, but doubt is just that and we often don't want to believe the worst.

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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 7):
Look, everyone deserves a second chance

You know, I've never really bought that line. Everyone may deserve forgiveness, but a much smaller subset does the actual affirmative corrections to their behavior to warrant a second chance.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 10):

You know, I've never really bought that line. Everyone may deserve forgiveness, but a much smaller subset does the actual affirmative corrections to their behavior to warrant a second chance.

People do deserve second chances, but certain thresholds of transgressions require different levels of trust reestablishment. What these thresholds are and what the grounds for regaining trust are will vary from person to person and situation to situation. It is the nature of life and relationships.

I don't know where this situation falls, and none of us do. Only Mr and Mrs. Rice do.

I know of folks that would have been out of there in a second, had their family/friends give Rice a piece of mind/fist, and they would be gone. I know of other folks that have been and some still are subjected to horrendous abuse because they continue to choose to put themselves there, even after police interventions have been required.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 10):
Quoting Casinterest (Reply 7):
Look, everyone deserves a second chance

You know, I've never really bought that line. Everyone may deserve forgiveness, but a much smaller subset does the actual affirmative corrections to their behavior to warrant a second chance.

And the truth of it is if you are to get a second chance you must earn it. No one owes you ANYTHING, second chance or otherwise. You had better pick up your pieces and do and be and live they way you should and earn that chance. And remember that no one must give you that "second chance". You may never get it but that doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't/don't live your life as best as possible. People may be receptive to you and give you that chance but not everyone will or has to, we all live with this.

Honestly I hope that in time Ray Rice does do something somehow to "redeem" himself but he has earned this repudiation. I never like to see a wasted life.

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):

What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

Maybe because he is (was, now) a rich athlete, money was part of it. But I have a dear friend that was in an abusive relationship for a long, long time. A lot of time it's because of low self-esteem brought on by a host of things in that person's life. Fortunately, she got out of the relationship before he killed her, and I'm quite certain he would have one day, and has successfully raised thier two kids on their own.

But it's a deep-rooted psychological issue for many women and men. And not easy to overcome.

Quoting d l x (Reply 10):
You know, I've never really bought that line. Everyone may deserve forgiveness, but a much smaller subset does the actual affirmative corrections to their behavior to warrant a second chance.

I respectfully disagree. And perhaps someday if you need that second chance, you'll think differently. I will modify the saying that "everyone deserves a second chance" to "almost everyone deserves a second chance." A murderer, a rapist, perhaps does not.


And I agree with the sentiment that the NFL can't be given any kudo's on this action. They didn't change the policy on domestic abuse until after the pathetic 2-game ban handed down to Ray Rice. They have a boatload of egg all over their face today.

The guy who deserves the plaudits is Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens management. Ozzie is a First Class guy, and I'm sure he didn't think twice after seeing the video.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 3):
I think you'd be surprised. There are studies about just how "loyal" (for lack of a better word) abused women are to their abusers.

This guy is obviously an animal and deserves what he got. I do have a question, and it is something I´d like answered without being flamed.

I don´t understand, then, the role of courts. This happened in a private outing between the two of them. Not in the field, not in the Ravens franchise installations.

So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question. How many, say, Home Depot male employees hit their wives or fiancees at home or in a hotel and will not get fired? Isn´t this a matter for private life? Isn´t the Ravens and the NFL becoming judge, attorney, defense attorney and jury?
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 13):
I respectfully disagree. And perhaps someday if you need that second chance, you'll think differently.

I'm not sure I conveyed what I meant with the necessary clarity. If I do something where I need a second chance, I'm also going to work hard to earn that second chance. I'm going to do whatever possible to right my wrong, and show the world that I am again worthy of its trust. I don't think I should just get a second chance just because.

That's why I'm not in favor of lifetime bans (or life sentences in the criminal world) without a chance for redemption. Without the chance for redemption, there is no motivation for the offender to make right. Condemnation leads to evil.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 13):
A murderer, a rapist, perhaps does not.

If they do something to right their wrongs, and show rehabilitation, those guys have earned a second chance. All I'm saying is that a second chance should not be handed out without earning it.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 13):
They didn't change the policy on domestic abuse until after the pathetic 2-game ban handed down to Ray Rice.

Maaaan, they didn't change the policy until the public told them it wasn't enough! I have a very difficult time believing that the NFL didn't make a $$$-based decision here, and I have a very difficult time believing that the NFL hadn't seen the whole video. If anything, I don't think the NFL asked the necessary questions that would have revealed obvious answers.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question. How many, say, Home Depot male employees hit their wives or fiancees at home or in a hotel and will not get fired? Isn´t this a matter for private life? Isn´t the Ravens and the NFL becoming judge, attorney, defense attorney and jury?

It's a legitimate question.

I believe the answer is that in some very public fields of employment, that's the price you pay. The qualifications for fame-based employment is simply different than for you and me. If a hardware store employee beats his wife, and no one knows, it doesn't reflect poorly on the hardware store. Thus, the hardware store cannot be seen to have endorsed such behavior. By continuing to give Rice and others millions of dollars when they've done heinous wrongs, the NFL and the teams can be seen as believing that it is not that big a deal to have such a person on their payroll.

Add to this, there was a boycott forming: not just amongst viewers and fans, but from actual players who said they would not play against Rice OR WITH HIM. These players had decided that Rice was a despicable person that they did not want to be associated with. Good on them--and good for them, they have the rights they do to assert themselves in that way.

At the end of the day, there was simply no way the Ravens could keep the guy (and no way any other team could pick him up). It's just sad that it took the video surfacing for that to happen.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
I don´t understand, then, the role of courts. This happened in a private outing between the two of them. Not in the field, not in the Ravens franchise installations.

So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question. How many, say, Home Depot male employees hit their wives or fiancees at home or in a hotel and will not get fired? Isn´t this a matter for private life? Isn´t the Ravens and the NFL becoming judge, attorney, defense attorney and jury?

No court here other than "the court of public opinion" and all players in the professional leagues have a "morality clauses" and another that speaks to not bringing bad publicity etc. upon the franchise or league. If you breach either you can and will suffer consequences (though often it depends on your starpower, just how popular you are, and most importantly: the public's reaction).

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 6):
He is lucky. Even though he lost his job and will likely not play again and will not earn money like he has (hope he's got good investments because he ain't gonna live on his "star power" after this), he is lucky.

Just today the NCAA lifted its ban on Penn State two years into the original four year period. It makes you wonder how long this ban will be. In the case of Rice, he's a single player in a position that traditionally doesn't have a lot of longevity, and of course his actions are reprehensible so chances are he doesn't play again. In the case of Penn State, the claim was that we shouldn't be punishing the current players for the past sins of the staff, but that doesn't hold water to me. The punishment of four years was meant to send a message and it should have been served in full, IMHO. The message being sent by the NCAA is we act tough when the camera lights are on but once the spotlight is off we want our TV audience back.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 16):
all players in the professional leagues have a "morality clauses" and another that speaks to not bringing bad publicity etc. upon the franchise or league.

Good that you included that phrase, because it's an important detail. The kinds of jobs that have morality clauses are high profile jobs -- the kinds of jobs that can bring great scrutiny to the company due to being in the public eye. Nobody cares that the mail clerk is a pedophile but the people that come in close contact with him. But if the CEO is, it's a huge image problem -- everyone is socially connected to the CEO.

EVERYONE in the NFL is high profile. So, the rules are different.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 18):
But if the CEO is, it's a huge image problem -- everyone is socially connected to the CEO.

Yep, just look at the CEO of Centerplate that lost his position after the elevator video of him kicking and choking his (probably ex)friend's dog that he was watching came to light.

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Wonder if his wife will stand by him now that he is unemployed (and likely unemployable)....

That brings up one of the core issues when you have society punishing someone. The family automatically gets punishment right along with the offender. Happens when you send someone to prison, or when the NFL takes "action".

Because Ray Rice married this woman all punishments deal out by the NFL will be against her as much as Ray. That could end up being a punch in the gut that hurts her far longer than than anything Ray dished out.

The NFL faces some real challenges. Then need programs that the public finds acceptable. They need to address aggressive behavior in a sport that is based on aggressive behavior. And they need to ensure that their actions do not further hurt the original victims.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 10):
Quoting Casinterest (Reply 7):
Look, everyone deserves a second chance

You know, I've never really bought that line.

I don't really buy it either.

People can earn the opportunity to have a second chance. But I certainly don't think everyone automatically deserves one.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
Because Ray Rice married this woman all punishments deal out by the NFL will be against her as much as Ray. That could end up being a punch in the gut that hurts her far longer than than anything Ray dished out.

That's no different than a husband getting fired from his job for whatever reason. It affects the family. Hence, said husband should likely not have done whatever led to his firing.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question.

Because it reflects bad on his employers, in this case the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL. It's the same thing that led to Donald Sterling's ouster from the NBA. Something like this can tarnish the league and the team for a long time.

Quoting d l x (Reply 15):
If I do something where I need a second chance, I'm also going to work hard to earn that second chance. I'm going to do whatever possible to right my wrong, and show the world that I am again worthy of its trust. I don't think I should just get a second chance just because.

  

I think in that regard we are on the same page.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):

What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

Without sound and background information, it looked to me like she was the aggressor and maybe she agrees.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):

What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

Without sound and background information, it looked to me like she was the aggressor and maybe she agrees.

It is one thing to defend yourself, to fend someone off. It is another to hit so hard that you knock someone out in one hit.

All Ray Rice had to do was hit another floor button and get off the elevator and leave his fiance if she was being "aggressive". Instead he chose to strike her hard enough to knock her down and knock her out.

His choice, his actions.

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:43 am

One can hope that the reason she married him was because she didn't remember he punched her (your immediate memories aren't usually transferred during a blackout event and thus aren't stored) and he told her that he pushed her and she hit her head. If you look at the video, she does clearly hit her head on the brass rail. But he also clearly punched her and was not concerned with her well being.

What's also unfortunate about this whole thing is the continued excuses spouted for the wife's behavior by the MSM. Victim mentality, hard to leave abuser, etc. woman never to blame in any way tripe.

It takes a weak mind to abuse a woman. It takes an equally weak mind to marry an abuser. And keep returning to them.

Been going through this with my sister in law. She's been ignoring court orders and probation terms to continue to allow her husband to see her and her son and abuse her. Despite her family trying to get her out if there for two years. She is clearly also at fault. She was making the weak willed choice rather than the harder, braver one. That is a choice. She could have done something about it. We offered her a place to live 2 years ago but it's only now after him going to jail 3 times that she's finally taking responsibility for her own life.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Part of being a victim is the mental side of it - many probably think they are to blame.

And at the press conference she did apologize for her involvement in this incident. Also an NFL official commented that they are considering mandatory counseling for ALL new team members as part of the new player orientation program.
To do otherwise would be considered racist. If you punish everyone, guilty or not it is accepted.

I think in a few weeks the NFL will think this over and welcome back Ray Rice with open arms again. Just like they did with Michael Vick a few years ago.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:28 am

Ban him for life from the NFL and whoever the ACY DA is should be fired and they should reopen this face. That's a felony assault and battery.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:13 am

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Wonder if his wife will stand by him now that he is unemployed (and likely unemployable)....

Some team will pick him up if he is reinstated by the NFL.

He is a talented player and will get another shot, remember this is the same league that game Michael Vick another shot and has given second chances to players whom have killed people from DUI's.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 8):
I'm bothered by both the initial two game suspension, and I'm also bothered by this subsequent punishment. First, the initial suspension was too light, and should have been suspended at least the whole season, if not longer. Second, does this video change anything about what we already knew about the case? The suspension was because he abused his wife very severely and the fact that the video was leaked to the public doesn't change that. Did the NFL/Ravens not get an opportunity to watch the video privately earlier?

Many people were outraged because there are 3-4 players facing much longer suspensions for drugs like pot that are not performance enhancing and the tide is turning on whether or not pot is really that bad of a thing to do. This forced Roger Goodell to change the suspension guidelines for incidents like this to 6 games for a first offense to indefinite for a repeat.

If Roger Goodell did in fact see this video beforehand and gave a two game suspension anyways then he should be fired as he has consistently demonstrated to play favorites way to much when punishing/fining players.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question. How many, say, Home Depot male employees hit their wives or fiancees at home or in a hotel and will not get fired? Isn´t this a matter for private life? Isn´t the Ravens and the NFL becoming judge, attorney, defense attorney and jury?

If those said home depot employees appeared on their local news with a report on what they have done then they would be fired.

Also as said he is a public figure, a big star for the Ravens and has agreed to follow the NFL's conduct policy which many companies have now (I can get fired for trashing the image of my employer on Facebook).

Quoting fxramper (Reply 27):
Ban him for life from the NFL and whoever the ACY DA is should be fired and they should reopen this face. That's a felony assault and battery.

I don't agree with and outright ban because the NFL reinstated Vick whom was running a dog-fighting ring. Give him a chance to sort his s*it out and give him another shot.

Regarding the legal obligations. IIRC he plead out the charges accordingly and whether or not this video was part of the legal proceedings is irrelevant because he is protected due to Double Jeopardy.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:35 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):
remember this is the same league that game Michael Vick another shot
Quoting type-rated (Reply 26):
Just like they did with Michael Vick a few years ago.

Not until after he had paid his debt to society, AND working visibly to end dogfighting. His second chance did not come for free.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):
If Roger Goodell did in fact see this video beforehand and gave a two game suspension anyways then he should be fired as he has consistently demonstrated to play favorites way to much when punishing/fining players.

I agree, but for a different reason. I don't think Goodell plays favorites. I think he plays $$$s.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:57 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):
The NFL states that no they did not, and officially they probably did not. However someone is saying they did. Still bad.

Again, even if it's true that Goodell didn't see this video prior to giving out the two game suspension, is there anything about it that contradicts or supplements what was already known about this? We knew already that he beat her up in the elevator and Rice confessed to as much. Other than being a visual aid, the story didn't change. Essentially, Rice is being further punished for a video being leaked, an element he doesn't control. That I disagree with. The fact that he was under punished initially doesn't make it any better.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):
If Roger Goodell did in fact see this video beforehand and gave a two game suspension anyways then he should be fired as he has consistently demonstrated to play favorites way to much when punishing/fining players.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that it doesn't matter if Goodell saw this tape before or not. This video didn't change the nature of the story, so Roger shouldn't dole out extra punishment just because the video was leaked.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:24 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 30):
Again, even if it's true that Goodell didn't see this video prior to giving out the two game suspension, is there anything about it that contradicts or supplements what was already known about this? We knew already that he beat her up in the elevator and Rice confessed to as much. Other than being a visual aid, the story didn't change. Essentially, Rice is being further punished for a video being leaked, an element he doesn't control. That I disagree with. The fact that he was under punished initially doesn't make it any better.

I don't see it as that. I see that there was doubt as to exactly what happened in the elevator. Whether there was any incitement by the victim and something, anything, that could have created a situation where this happened. And we weren't willing to say much since the victim herself was saying things that made us wonder. This video removed all doubt and proved Rice to be the one totally at fault. And so the reaction was "OK you fooled us, now you will face the consequences."

No forgiveness.

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:24 am

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 13):
What I don't get is why she married him after that vicious encounter. Most women would see that as a deal breaker.

Intimidation and perhaps a case of low self esteem? I mean, look at the marriage of Mike Tyson and Robin Givens for a while back then - she stuck with him despite his reputation for violent behavior and wife beating.

Sometimes, you're in so deep (emotionally) that it is difficult to let go, despite the circumstances. "Perhaps he'll change", "He doesn't really mean it", "Deep down, he really does LOVE me", etc.

Well - then there's O.J. Simpson, if you want the extreme example.

I have a very good friend who stays with his wife despite proof that she is cheating on him - we have talked about the situation a lot and every time, it comes down to my friend not wanting to end a 25-year marriage and lose the person that he has raised a family with.
It is not exactly the same as the original thread post, I know, but in principle - sometimes, you don't want to disrupt what you have in hand and have grown accustomed to - and you just tolerate the bad parts in a relationship.
It shouldn't be this way, but sadly it is, in so many cases.

Well - to anyone in such a situation - all that I can say is that there is always an option out - no one should have to just "put up" with abuse just because it is the price to pay for whatever benefits that you think that your relationship is providing you with.

-Nick
"We all have wings, but some of us don't know why..."
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:40 am

Worth a read, as it sums everything up perfectly:

http://www.arizonasports.com/212/176...er-Goodell-cant-be-trusted-further
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:54 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33):
Worth a read, as it sums everything up perfectly:

http://www.arizonasports.com/212/176...rther

And Goodell is paid $44million a year for his excellent skills and services....

Tugg
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Type-Rated
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:11 am

The NFL knew that the elevator video existed. Why did it take a rag like TMZ to actually get their hands on it? The NFL should have had a copy of it by then. If the NFL is going to do these kinds of investigations they need to tighten up the ship a little bit.
I must have missed something, what was Rice's excuse for having a passed out wife in the elevator before the video became available? Drunk? Fainted? Other?
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ltbewr
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:17 am

There are some serious questions being brought up by the disclosure of this more extensive video recording.

One series is who saw this, when they saw it and did someone hide it. It is possible some at the NFL did have it months ago, the local prosecutor had it or even Rice's defense counsel and were trying to hide it for a variety of reasons.

Another is how this more extensive video came out now. Was it someone at the NFL, the hotel security, the local prosecutors office or even Rice's defense attorney who for various reasons felt it needed to come out or needed/wanted the $$$'s from selling it to TMZ.

Of course it brings out that the local prosecutors let Rice get off easy as far too often happens to celebrities and rich persons, realizing they would have a long and expensive fight on their hands or had pressure put on them by the NFL, the Ravens team, team fans to allow Rice to get the pre-trial deal of counsuling.

Some blame the woman hitting him first. While Rice does have a right of self-defense, he used way too much force to do so.

One has to wonder if the NFL didn't want to tick off the NFLPA at a time of serious negotiations over the punishment of those caught using drugs including pot, where the NFLPA wants shorter terms of suspension or not at all for minor pot violations or even using Performance enhancing drugs.

Now you have a serious reaction by the NFL and the team but is it for PR due to it's affects on female and many male fans. There has been far too little done as to violent acts and illegal behaviors by NFL (as well as other sports) players from DWI's to murder. They have a multi-billion $ business seeing multiple threats on it's income, taxpayers no longer wanting to subsidies them, executives making way too much money and no long in touch with real fans. I do hope this does cause a change for the league for the better.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:42 pm

He will be back somewhere next year, look at Michael Vick. Realize that the NFL is comprised of a bunch of slow witted dolts and supported by fans with more money than brains.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:42 pm

The key thing to remember is that it is OK to hit women. Knocking them out cold is OK too.

Or at least that is what Janay Rice is saying/implying now:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/09/us/ray...fl-janay-rice/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I mean come on, it was just an honest mistake, he won't do it again.... where it can be seen. (She still loves him and needs the money to live the lifestyle she wants you know!) I just don't get it sometimes.

She is a shining example to other women......

Tugg
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 36):
It is possible some at the NFL did have it months ago, the local prosecutor had it or even Rice's defense counsel and were trying to hide it for a variety of reasons.

The NFL absolutely saw it back then.

And Rice's lawyers had it because of the legal obligations through the discovery process.

No one should be naive enough to think Goodell didn't see it.

Keith Olbermann's take was spot on and I agree with him fully---everyone involved in this is complicit and should either resign or be removed.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 36):
Some blame the woman hitting him first. While Rice does have a right of self-defense, he used way too much force to do so.

The way he treated her afterwards is the worst thing imo.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 38):
The key thing to remember is that it is OK to hit women.

Yes, sometimes it is necessary. Men are not the only abusers, I was married to a BSC woman myself once who often turned to violence. Trying to be gentle with her was useless, she just kept coming because I was a victim of the mind-numbing propaganda that only men are baad.. In hindsight, she needed to be taught a lesson but eventually ended up bitter in jail. We don't know their background but we can see she is clearly attacking him and this is probably one reason why the DA didn't press charges.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Part of being a victim is the mental side of it - many probably think they are to blame.

And having people go "it's her fault for being with him anyway" or "its the money" doesn't help.

https://www.ted.com/talks/leslie_mor...estic_violence_victims_don_t_leave
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:36 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 41):
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Part of being a victim is the mental side of it - many probably think they are to blame.

And having people go "it's her fault for being with him anyway" or "its the money" doesn't help.

Y'all got that right.

Maybe it is for the money, maybe it isn't. Maybe she feels it was her fault, maybe she doesn't.

We all weren't there, and aren't privy to their relationship. I just hope she knows that she has options, and doesn't have to stay with him.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):

Without sound and background information, it looked to me like she was the aggressor

We don't see what sparked the initial fight. By the time the camera captures them, they're in a full blown verbal altercation. Once on the elevator, he got in her face and she shoved him back. That's when he swung and knocked her the eff out.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 40):
Yes, sometimes it is necessary. Men are not the only abusers, I was married to a BSC woman myself once who often turned to violence. Trying to be gentle with her was useless, she just kept coming because I was a victim of the mind-numbing propaganda that only men are baad.. In hindsight, she needed to be taught a lesson but eventually ended up bitter in jail. We don't know their background but we can see she is clearly attacking him and this is probably one reason why the DA didn't press charges.

There's a video on YouTube of an experiment. Two actors were playing a couple, and went to a park and took turns playing the role of "abuser". Every single time the guy grabbed her, bystanders rushed up to "save" her from the abuse.

When the female played the abuser, the vast majority of the time nobody intervened, and some even laughed as they walked by.
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 8):
I'm also bothered by this subsequent punishment.

Let's not be naive about this. The NFL didn't suspend him indefinitely for hitting his wife, their opportunity to do that has come and gone. He was suspended for being dumb enough to get it caught on tape.

It is a well known fact that the public reacts differently when seeing violence in action, as opposed to being told about it. With the video out for everyone to see, there's no doubt that the 2-game suspension would have seen as plainly insufficient by most fans, and especially by the largest pool of potential new fans the league has left in the US market: women!
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):
There's a video on YouTube of an experiment. Two actors were playing a couple, and went to a park and took turns playing the role of "abuser". Every single time the guy grabbed her, bystanders rushed up to "save" her from the abuse.

When the female played the abuser, the vast majority of the time nobody intervened, and some even laughed as they walked by.

This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u3PgH86OyEM

Yep, both sexes abuse. Men are on the receiving end almost as much as women (40% according to the video posted here). Neither is right nor should one be any more acceptable. I don't care it is a punch or the verbal psychological version, both are wrong and need to be addressed and stopped.

The biggest problem is that the abuser often allows it to continue, they come back for more, they keep coming back to the person "that loves them/that they love". It is sick and unhealthy. But it does not ever excuse the abuser, male or female for the harm they cause the other. We can't and shouldn't discount or laugh off either. But it is often tough to discern between a heated argument and an action/reaction and actual abuse. However it is easy to see someone hit someone else (when you do see it) and its effects. And men are both more often viewed as the dangerous one (men are stronger on average) and men also more often use physical actions versus psychological ones (thought men most certainly do).

Simply put abuse is wrong and both the abuser and the abused have responsibilities to do something. The abuser must not allow it to happen, must stop it before it happens or get treatment immediately (and not expect forgiveness), but equally, I think, the abused person, the victim, has a responsibility to get help, to remove themselves from the situation as quickly as possible. Apparently neither is as easy as it sounds.

I am in no way blaming the victim.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:35 am

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 22):
So why is he being fired and then suspended indefinitely? Legitimate question.

That's a good question but having been on many team sports growing up I can tell you the Ravens did the right thing by cutting him. No one needs the distraction in the locker room. Its really poison for the entire team, I've seen it first hand. The league action is pure CYA but also understandable. If your employer can fire you for any reason this is what happens. I don't know if the player's collective bargaining people will even fight this but the players are well represented from league overreactions.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 46):
If your employer can fire you for any reason this is what happens. I don't know if the player's collective bargaining people will even fight this but the players are well represented from league overreactions.



The NFLPA has no recourse in the action of the Ravens cutting him as contracts in the NFL aren't guaranteed. Tom Brady could be cut tomorrow if the Pats wanted him gone.

The union might try to fight the league on the fact that they changed the suspension to even higher than their newly announcecd 6 game suspension for domestic violence. As this is the same offense then he should get six games under the conduct policy.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 34):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33)
Worth a read, as it sums everything up perfectly:

http://www.arizonasports.com/212/176...rther

And Goodell is paid $44million a year for his excellent skills and services....



I think Goodell has ruined a lot of of the game such as changing the rules to tailor to offense, making it the "No Fun League" be penalizing basically all TD celebrations and saturating the week with football.

However he represents the owners and profits for the NFL have never been higher and the only way that he is going anywhere is if the owners turn on him. The fans like me who remember the game in the 90's and even before miss the football of those days.
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Acheron
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:39 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 45):
Simply put abuse is wrong and both the abuser and the abused have responsibilities to do something. The abuser must not allow it to happen, must stop it before it happens or get treatment immediately (and not expect forgiveness), but equally, I think, the abused person, the victim, has a responsibility to get help, to remove themselves from the situation as quickly as possible. Apparently neither is as easy as it sounds.

In the video I posted above, she mentions that the abused seems to think they are the only one who can "save and change" their abuser. On the other hand, she also mention that 70% of those who are killed in domestic violence altercations, died after dumping them, so you also have that.

Reminds me of the Christy Mack beating. She had dumped him around May when the guy came beat the crap out of her and intended to rape her and kill her.
 
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RE: Moron Ray Rice Cut By Ravens After New Video

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:57 pm

Once again, The Onion satirizes the situation perfectly:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nfl...olerance-policy-on-videotap,36885/
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