Years a go, I was a bartender in Texas when going to college in Austin and NBA player, Tim Duncan, frequented my bar with his family and was famous for giving less than 5% tip on hundreds of dollars worth of food and drink. This clown, LeSean McCoy is about on the same page.

Because I was a waiter and bartender in college, and make a descent wage now, I always leave 15% even if food and service is terrible. I can vent on Yelp but I refuse to screw over a kid trying to pay his way through college.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...lly-burger-joint-article-1.1932597

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter): I refuse to screw over a kid trying to pay his way through college.

If the lack of service is beyond the waitstaff's control, I agree with you. However, if the lack of service is directly attributed to the waitstaff, then they deserve what they get/don't get

Depends on how many divorces this guy has been through, or child support owed. He may not be able to afford much else.

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter): Years a go, I was a bartender in Texas when going to college in Austin and NBA player, Tim Duncan, frequented my bar with his family and was famous for giving less than 5% tip on hundreds of dollars worth of food and drink.

But in what context? If I walk into a trendy bar with some friends of mine, and we order a couple buckets of craft beer, a bottle of premium wine and a few rounds of shots, ultimately yielding a bill over $1000, what is a fair tip? Giving a waitress $200 for a minimal amount of work just because I ordered high-priced alcohol (and 20% is a standard) seems really silly.

It amazes me how many of my conservative friends believe $7.20/hour to work at McDonald's or Walmart is too much, yet think a waitress bringing a bottle of $150 wine to our table deserves $15 (ironically, that bottle of wine can be purchased for just $15 outside the restaurant) for that few seconds of work... but when the bill comes, they punt the tip to someone else...

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter): I always leave 15% even if food and service is terrible

Nope! If the food is bad it is not the fault of the server thus he/she gets at least the minimum 15%. Bad service means that the waiter did not do the job well so I do not see why I should care whether he has money for his studies or anything. If the waiter cared about their education they would have provided an acceptable level of service.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): But in what context? If I walk into a trendy bar with some friends of mine, and we order a couple buckets of craft beer, a bottle of premium wine and a few rounds of shots, ultimately yielding a bill over $1000, what is a fair tip? Giving a waitress $200 for a minimal amount of work just because I ordered high-priced alcohol (and 20% is a standard) seems really silly.

I had the same discussion with some colleagues. I do not think that I woul go with percentages all the time. Percentages based on the amount of the bill make sense in "quantitative" terms, like a big company requiring extra work for all items/courses/drinks. If the bill amount is high just because of an expensive wine or alcohol then I would hesitate to just hand a waiter $100-200. It takes so much more time and effort for me to earn that money than the time it takes a person to carry a bottle of alcohol from the kitchen/bar to my table. I have spent a lot of time waiting tables, it can be a hard and tiring job but in my book nobody deserves that much money to carry food and drinks from/to a table.

A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

Honestly, this story just reminds me how dumb our system of waiters and waitresses being dependent on tips to get by is. Anymore, restaurants have moved towards the busboy bringing out your food (a practice I abhor). It's a silly system, having to throw extra money on top of your bill because you know the server is dependent upon it. Even if one is exceptional at their job, they're only making a surviving wage at best. Jobs in which your salary is a gamble should only apply when the earning ceiling is well above an average living.

I would love it if someone opened up a restaurant, paid their service staff $15/hour and posted a "no tipping" sign on the door. I would gladly patronize that place - no pressure on the waiters to be exceptional, just relax and do the job right.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5): A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

Thank You.

-Nick

Maybe he thought standard tip is 15-20 cents, not 15-20 percent...

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5): A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

In the U.S., with the niggardly wages waiters and waitresses get, which are FAR below what our niggardly minimum wage is, it's a matter of livelihood. It is about bettering service, but I've rarely had a waiter or waitress that didn't deserve a decent tip-certainly not 20 cents.

I've heard a lot of pro athletes in the U.S. are really awful about tips. Former Chicago Bulls star Scottie Pippin was infamous in the Windy City for the paltry tips he left, even at really upscale restaurants. If you know he's coming, and you know how he tips, I'd give him crappy service anyway, because you know those guys won't tip worth beans.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 9): In the U.S., with the niggardly wages waiters and waitresses get, which are FAR below what our niggardly minimum wage is, it's a matter of livelihood. It is about bettering service, but I've rarely had a waiter or waitress that didn't deserve a decent tip-certainly not 20 cents. I've heard a lot of pro athletes in the U.S. are really awful about tips. Former Chicago Bulls star Scottie Pippin was infamous in the Windy City for the paltry tips he left, even at really upscale restaurants. If you know he's coming, and you know how he tips, I'd give him crappy service anyway, because you know those guys won't tip worth beans.

For menial jobs, wages in the US have been stagnant for a long time and employers continue to squeeze productivity; during the Great Recession, many employers could be selective for even the most undesirable jobs. A grocery chain local to me is installing sensors that keep track of the number of carts employees collect per hour - while earning minimum wage and working in all types of weather (heavy rain, snow, hot & humid, frigid cold). People scrub toilets for $7.50/hour. FedEx hires employees to load trucks for $10/hour. Any of these jobs are on par with serving tables -- loading trucks at FedEx is way more brutal. And yet, for some reasons, servers want to earn college/apprenticeship-type wages without any marketable skills.
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We went to a mid-range seafood restaurant midweek, ordered a bucket of king crab for $90 (the most expensive item on the menu) and a bottle of vintage champagne for $215. The extent of the service was to take our order, bring it to the table (we preferred to pour it ourselves) and check-up on us. For that, I left a $30 tip, which seemed fair to me for the service performed while we dined for 60-minutes in an otherwise empty establishment. When we returned several months later and repeated the same order, the (same) waitress wrote the amounts out for 18%/20%/22% & highlighted it, apparently dissatisfied with her previous tip (her amounts also included tips on tax). So we left her $15, far less than the $60 she was seeking. Cheap? Not at all. But don't expect $50 for walking to my table with a bottle...

I'm certain many of the 'tip shaming' done amongst professional athletes is for similar reasoning: they purchased high-ticket food & drinks and left large tips that didn't equate into the 20%+ the wait staff was seeking.

Why should people be guilt tripped into paying a tip for bad service?


If the person waiting your table does a terrible job, then they don't deserve a tip.


I will tip for good service, and usually in cash to the waiter/waitress. I will not tip via my credit card, because some restaurants don't give the full tip to the waiter/waitress. They will skim 50% off in some places.


Last month, I stayed at the Kingsway Hotel in London. I was feeling parched so went into the bar for a drink. I ordered a Lime and Soda water.

I was charged £3 or $4.83 for the drink (which itself is expensive - Most places I've been too charge £1.20 - £1.50)

I was automatically charged 15% tip £0.45 or $0.73

Now that gets my goat up.... Being automatically charged a service charge. It's not right in my opinion and should be left to the discretion of the customer. If I felt the barman did an exceptional job of pouring my soda water, I will leave a tip. Its not like he had to carry it to my table. I was standing at the bar.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1): If the lack of service is beyond the waitstaff's control, I agree with you. However, if the lack of service is directly attributed to the waitstaff, then they deserve what they get/don't get

  

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5): A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

I don't disagree with you, but, quite unfortunately, the tip gets rolled into the compensation of the wait staff.

There is a restaurant somewhere in the region, maybe outside Cincinnati, that has done away with tipping, increased the wages of the staff and increased the price of the meal. As an incentive to the staff, they also add a percentage of the revenue generated with each ticket to the server. The assumption is that customers that are having a good time will stay longer and order dessert or coffee or drinks or whatever.

I would love to see that become the norm.

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 11): Being automatically charged a service charge.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): But in what context?

Generally, I agree. Though, it seems to me that when I'm in a high brow type place, I tend to get more attentive and responsive service than at O'Charley's. Keep my glass full of whatever I'm drinking, be close enough and available to attend my table when I need something and don't bother me while I'm eating and you'll get 20%-25%.

If you expect a big tip just because your place charges a lot, without the level of service justifying the size of the tip...well, you're going to be out of luck. But, the floor tends to be 15%.

I agree with those who feel gratuities should be at the discretion of the customer, however my general rule is 20% unless the service was abysmal.

Having said that, I'm irritated by takeout places that include a "tip" line on the receipt, and really galled by tip jars left out at fast food places. I'll tip if the service is worth it, but don't have the equivalent of a passive-aggressive palm out waiting for me to grease it.

After spending a month in a summer camp in Quebec Canada, I had to catch a US Airways flight to Tampa (Via Rochester,and change at Pittsburgh) to meet up with my parents.

Anyways I had to catch a bus from one part of Toronto (Domestic to International?) airport to the other, and the Bus driver wouldn't open the doors until I put a "tip" in his tip basket.

Looking back, It wasn't a tip, it was a ransom fee.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 6): I would love it if someone opened up a restaurant, paid their service staff $15/hour and posted a "no tipping" sign on the door. I would gladly patronize that place - no pressure on the waiters to be exceptional, just relax and do the job right.

Come to Australia, where this already happens - $15 per hour would be below minimum wage here. Not unusual for people to be earing $40-$50 per hour on a weekend with penalty rates (normally 1.5x on Saturday & 2x on Sundays & public holidays). You have the situation here where some venues impose a surcharge on Sundays & public holidays to allow for the higher rates of pay, conversely, you'll see quite a few venues here in MEL that will offer discounts to those eating out mid week (Tuesday/Wednesday)

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter): I always leave 15% even if food and service is terrible.

If service is terrible, and it is clearly driven by the waitstaff, the tip will be reflected. If the food is terrible, I expect to not pay for it.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1): If the lack of service is beyond the waitstaff's control, I agree with you. However, if the lack of service is directly attributed to the waitstaff, then they deserve what they get/don't get

Total Agreement.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3):

Going out and ordering bottle service is kind of ridiculous to start with, though I do agree that paying someone $15 to bring you a triple marked up bottle of Grey Goose is kind of ridiculous.

I personally think the high end bar industry that thrives on bottle service should be the poster child for inclusive service. As it is, waitstaff in such places are pushed to sell bottle service. They should be essentially paid a commission on the bottles, and the tips should be trinkgeld.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5): A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

I tend to agree, and that is definitely the case in Germany and France, but the system has been built in the US and Canada to be different.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 6): Anymore, restaurants have moved towards the busboy bringing out your food (a practice I abhor).

Its called food running. The reason they do it is to facilitate more orders being taken quickly and more consistent quality. You have a lot less issues with orders just sitting around, getting cold, when you have someone who can pick that food up and get it out.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 9): In the U.S., with the niggardly wages waiters and waitresses get, which are FAR below what our niggardly minimum wage is, it's a matter of livelihood. It is about bettering service, but I've rarely had a waiter or waitress that didn't deserve a decent tip-certainly not 20 cents.

You like using outdated terms to see if people will flinch?

Anyway, there is a point here. Outside just 6 states that are all interestingly in the west and split down the political divide (California, Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Montana and Nevada), plus one state, Hawaii, that is within 25 cents, there is a different minimum wage for jobs where there is an expectation of tipping. That said, there is also the requirement that business owners tabulate the tips earned by their staff and make up any difference in hourly rate up to the federal minimum (called a tip credit). Of course, they often don't.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13): Having said that, I'm irritated by takeout places that include a "tip" line on the receipt, and really galled by tip jars left out at fast food places. I'll tip if the service is worth it, but don't have the equivalent of a passive-aggressive palm out waiting for me to grease it.

Totally. I despise the tip jar culture. It spun off Starbucks and other coffee shops, where tips maybe deserved where a drink takes skill (of course, Starbucks no longer takes any skill, but that is a different topic).

I don't necessarily think the tip line on the receipt is always intentional. Those credit card machines may well be programed as such, as they are often one-size-fits-all.

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 14): Anyways I had to catch a bus from one part of Toronto (Domestic to International?) airport to the other, and the Bus driver wouldn't open the doors until I put a "tip" in his tip basket.

That seems idiotic. I'd have called the police.

Quoting melpax (Reply 15):

And this is a huge reason Australians are notoriously poor tippers when they leave Australia.

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter): I always leave 15% even if food and service is terrible.

It really is true, a fool and there money are easily parted. Sorry but tipping when the serivce and food is terrible it daft.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5): A tip should be about bettering service, not about the livelihood of the waiter...

Well said.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 9): In the U.S., with the niggardly wages waiters and waitresses get, which are FAR below what our niggardly minimum wage is, it's a matter of livelihood.

I would much rather pay more for the food then give someone a tip.

Service in the US is generally pretty average, I believe this is because tips have become expected rather than earned people don't give as good a standard of service as expected for 15-20% tip.

I had a town car driver in the US a few years back, he spent the trip telling me about his car (brand new) and how it had improved his business, I paid him then he had a go at me for not tipping, the idiot was an owner operator, he could have charged me $20 more and I would have paid. Why does someone who owns the service deserve a tip? The sence of entitlement in some people is amazing.

Well...he IS a football player so maybe he doesn't know the difference between 20 cents and 20 percent!   

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16): Going out and ordering bottle service is kind of ridiculous to start with, though I do agree that paying someone $15 to bring you a triple marked up bottle of Grey Goose is kind of ridiculous. I personally think the high end bar industry that thrives on bottle service should be the poster child for inclusive service. As it is, waitstaff in such places are pushed to sell bottle service. They should be essentially paid a commission on the bottles, and the tips should be trinkgeld. ... I don't necessarily think the tip line on the receipt is always intentional. Those credit card machines may well be programed as such, as they are often one-size-fits-all.

Depends on your perspective. From a monetary standpoint, drinking and/or dining out is ridiculous. Ultimately, you're paying for service, atmosphere and ambience. I'm always bemused by the number of posters on websites like slickdeals who declare 'paying $15-18 pp including tax/tip for a chicken breast dinner at Causal Chain Restaurant is foolish since you can replicate the same meal for less than $2 at home' ... yet just have to have the latest iPhone, iPad, Macbook, etc. every single year and don't think nothing of the significant loss in depreciation in selling their year-old equipment. Simply put, life's about individual preferences.

And several causal chain restaurants have experimented with all-inclusive pricing, especially as Millennials continue to increasingly shun them for lower cost, fast casual options. A Red Lobster near me converted its former smoking section into a fast casual-type atmosphere, in which you ordered, paid & picked up your food from a traditional fast food counter. You'd then bring your meal to a table you selected and ate it there. But the problem was the serving staff would print the receipt with the tip line (and yes, they had the option); at your table, they'd offer to bring you drinks, take your used service items away ... and then bring out the tip-thingy with mints on it. Obviously, it didn't last long.

Has anyone else noticed this? The receipt is now on e-bay, with a current bid of $100,000.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331318749411

I can afford 20%, and I give 20% in any sit down restaurant I frequent. I tip at any fast food joint that can accept tips. I cannot remember the last time I was treated poorly in a restaurant. I cannot remember the last time I received such poor service, that I would reduce the tip. My wife and I eat out for lunch or breakfast almost every day. I am not a fool, and I am not easily parted from my money. I do realize my ability to help those who serve us. I would not do it, I cannot do it, because of certain people who think and act certain ways. I would be fired.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 21): I can afford 20%, and I give 20% in any sit down restaurant I frequent.

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if the prices in resturants were higher, the staff paid minimum wages and tax also included in the price, rather than the current stupid situation where you tip, pay a low price for the meal and have to work out tax on top. The US has got this all wrong IMO.

The worst thing about tipping is Americans tipping when overseas, it's a horrible thing to do, now wellpaid Norwegians are starting to expect tips.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17): I would much rather pay more for the food then give someone a tip.

Agreed.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 21): I can afford 20%, and I give 20% in any sit down restaurant I frequent.

Same here. When I could not afford to go out and pay for my food, including the tip, I did not go.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22): Wouldn't it be better for everyone if the prices in resturants were higher, the staff paid minimum wages and tax also included in the price, rather than the current stupid situation where you tip, pay a low price for the meal and have to work out tax on top.

The staff is paid minimum wage. If the base salary combined with the tips does not meet the minimum wage, then the establishment makes up the difference. It is a crappy system, but it's what we have. As I stated, there appears to be a slow movement to change it and I hope it picks up momentum.

As for the tax; I really can't explain it, other than the retailer probably doesn't want to be associated with the higher price, so the price list, in any type of establishment, omits the tax. We all know to add it in. It's really a PITA when you're buying high dollar items.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 23): then the establishment makes up the difference

But do they?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24): But do they?

The law says they do. Do you have evidence to say they don't?

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 19): From a monetary standpoint, drinking and/or dining out is ridiculous.

Not necessarily.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20): Has anyone else noticed this? The receipt is now on e-bay, with a current bid of $100,000.

Best tip ever.

My mom was a cocktail waitress in Vegas for 25 years. Those girls would make special drinks for the jerks that didn't tip, or were known as cheap. I think she said Visine had an ingredient that worked like a major laxative, and worked pretty quickly. To this day, she never once regrets it, and I doubt her coworkers regret it either.

I was a skycap. I had a famous musician show up with over 30 pieces of equipment and luggage. She told me she was going to take care of me, and gave me a wink. I tagged all her equipment, and saved her a few thousand dollars. She handed me a signed CD, and walked off with her crew. I opened the CD, thinking she stashed cash inside. Nothing! The passengers behind her were in absolute disbelief. It was a JFK flight. I made a record in tips from the passengers behind her, as the New Yonkers were not quiet about it! LOL! Love my New Yorkers!

Anyways, I closed up my podium after the flight closed, and snuck up to the gate. I confronted the musician, and reminded her that I had taken care of all the excess bags and equipment. She smiled, reached in her purse, and turned her back to me. She then turned around, and handed me another autographed CD. I opened the CD in front of her, and conveniently tossed it in the garbage in front of her. I told her to have a nice flight, and walked away.

I was pissed! So pissed, I went to the bag room, and had a quick chat with the rampers who loaded her stuff on a cart. I handed him a crisp $50 bill, and told him to give her garbage some good treatment. Long story short, the TWA Station Manager came to visit me the next night. She asked me if I handled ABC? I told her I did. I got a lump in my throat, as she looked me in the eyes. She then asked, "she didn't tip you, did she?" I nodded my head. She smiled and said that she hated that bitch, and laughed. She then patted me on the back and thanked me for having this woman sign waivers for limited reliability for damage due to weight and size of the equipment.

I then went to my ramp buddy and asked how bad they handled her stuff. He laughed and said the ramp crew looked like gorillas on the ramp tossing her stuff.


Now, I know some of you will frown on this story. I expect that. Some will applaud it as well. This is a clear example of what can happen to a celebrity or sports star with a reputation of being rude, and not tipping well. Once you get a reputation, always question if that run to the bathroom, or damaged equipment was because of your reputation.  

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 29): I was a skycap. I had a famous musician show up with over 30 pieces of equipment and luggage. She told me she was going to take care of me, and gave me a wink. I tagged all her equipment, and saved her a few thousand dollars. She handed me a signed CD, and walked off with her crew. I opened the CD, thinking she stashed cash inside. Nothing! The passengers behind her were in absolute disbelief. It was a JFK flight. I made a record in tips from the passengers behind her, as the New Yonkers were not quiet about it! LOL! Love my New Yorkers!

Lets get this straight, you defrauded your employers to the tune of a few thousand dollars and expected a large tip in return. You should have just felt lucky that you still had your job.


With regard to the original thread starter, a tip is by any definition a voluntary payment no matter what part of the World you are in, yes the USA has a tradition of tipping in the region of 18 - 20% unlike most other Countries, but its still up to the customer, if they decline to do so the staff should just accept the situation whilst reserving the right to not serve the person again, after all its a two way thing.

Quite a few have mentioned that waiting staff shouldn't be penalised tip wise for poor food, just poor service, but are the tips exclusively for the waiting staff, or are they shared between all employees ? if the kitchen staff get a share, its right to cut the tip for poor food, likewise how do you reward exceptional food ?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 30): Lets get this straight, you defrauded your employers to the tune of a few thousand dollars and expected a large tip in return. You should have just felt lucky that you still had your job.

You obviously have no clue about tip jobs. I bet you have had plenty of bags never arrive after not tipping your skycap. Back in the days prior to 9/11, we were given permission when asked to waive fees by airline managers. In this case, I was given the okay to get this equipment checked.

Word to the wise. Piss off a skycap or a server.... You may just have a lost bag, or a stomach ache.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 29): You obviously have no clue about tip jobs.

If I ever find one of my staff giving my services away in exchange for a tip, their last duty will be to close the door behind themselves on the way out.