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zkojq
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New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:39 pm

Given that New Zealand politics is starting to spill over into other threads, it makes sense to start a seperate thread.

The campaigning is now over and the polls will open not long from now. In previous months, the National led government has had incredibly high support, but due to various scandals, that has declined. On the other hand, the opposition block is very divided, which has made the overall race quite tight (though favouring the current government). This election, voting rules have been changed to make it much easier to cast votes early. I voted a few days ago; much nicer not having a queue, like there occasionally is on election day.

Some important election issues have been:
-Economy.
-Housing Affordability.
-Immigration.
-Education.
-Child Poverty.
-Surveillance.
-Judith Collins.
-Dirty Politics.

A recent opinion poll from 3 shows the following.

Party standings:
Labour: 25.6 percent
National: 44.5 percent
NZ First: 7.1 percent
Greens: 14.4 percent
ACT: 0.1 percent
United Future: 0.1 percent
Maori Party: 1.1 percent
Internet Mana: 2 percent

Translated into seats in parliament:
Labour: 33
National: 56
NZ First: 9
Greens: 18
ACT: 1
United Future: 1
Maori Party: 3
Internet Mana: 3

New Zealand has the MMP system, whereby everyone gets two votes; an electorate vote and a party vote. To enter parliament, a party must win and electorate or >5% of the party vote. To form a government, a party needs 63 seats; if they can't achieve that on their own, they can form a coalition agreement with other parties. Based on the above numbers, this would be possible with a National-ACT-NZFirst-UnitedFuture coalition (center-right government) or with a Labour-Greens-NZFirst-Maori one (center-left government).

http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/poll...-of-power-2014091717#ixzz3Dlo8v0qX

Will the ACT party remain in parliament? United Future? Will the Conservative Party manage to cross the 5% threshold or win the East Coast Bays electorate? Can Internet-Mana coat tail their way into parliament through the Te Tai Tokerau electorate? Will the Civilian Party win against all odds and finally grant us independence from Hamilton? Who will Winston coalition with, if anyone? Who do you want to win? Who do you hope gets booted out of parliament?

Discuss. Oh and if you're a Kiwi, you might wish to vote.  

[Edited 2014-09-19 07:42:03]

[Edited 2014-09-19 08:22:46]
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
-Child Poverty.

This ones a crock of shit, according to statistics published recently child poverty is lower in NZ than it's ever been.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289902

Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
-Housing Affordability.

Huge issue mainly in Auckland, mostly due to foreign investment in housing and absentee home owners. I don't know how this is resolved, probably the only way is for the bubble to pop, some will suffer but it will help many lower income families into property

Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
-Judith Collins.

Done and dusted, she's gone, I don't think this is an issue worthy of changing the govt over.

Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
Oh and if you're a Kiwi, you might wish to vote.

Would like to vote but haven't lived in NZ in the past 3 years only visited.

Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
National: 56

I think they might end up with more, maybe even squeak home with 50% of the vote.

I can't see the left being able to cobble together enough seats to form a govt, especially with Cunliffe as PM, he has no support from the electorate. The Greens have pretty much killed any chance for Labour to ever hold power in NZ, a lot of labour voters have gone green, the rest of us do not want them anywhere near the reigns of power, they would screw the country beyond repair quick smart.

I would like to see some govt some day put there balls on the line and abolish the maori seats, maori are able to be elected on the general roll, no need for special representation, we are one country, we don't need an artificial maori electorate.

I would also like to see MMP go, FPP worked better in my opinion, all we've since it came in is ineffectual compromised govts.
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
I would like to see some govt some day put there balls on the line and abolish the maori seats, maori are able to be elected on the general roll, no need for special representation, we are one country, we don't need an artificial maori electorate.

Fully support this! I'm sick and tired of hearing about Maori rights. Were one country and one population - not two populations.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
-Child Poverty.

This ones a crock of shit, according to statistics published recently child poverty is lower in NZ than it's ever been.

Yet its still a major issue. If it wasn't then why are we still hearing about children going to school with no breakfast/lunch or not even having shoes/basic warm winter clothes?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Quoting zkojq (Thread starter):
-Judith Collins.

Done and dusted, she's gone, I don't think this is an issue worthy of changing the govt over.

Yet the attitude of John and Judith over the issue raises concerns. She was on her final final warning and no inquiry will be done till after the election.

Will certainly be voting after I wake up this afternoon as I'm working night shifts currently.
 
CPH-R
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:53 pm

Out of curiousity, has the recent Kim Dotcom/Edward Snowden/Glenn Greenwald revelation lovefest had an effect on the polls? Saw some headlines where John Key claimed that it was all misleading and that he'd release the classified documents that would prove it.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Yet its still a major issue. If it wasn't then why are we still hearing about children going to school with no breakfast/lunch or not even having shoes/basic warm winter clothes?

It's been made a major issue because the govt has done a pretty good job, there isn't much to ding them on so this crap came up. We don't have real poverty in NZ, it's an insult to all NZer's to say we have.

Look at the parents of many of these children, most of them should never have had children, a lot spend money on booze and smokes, I'm a firm believer in food stamps, a lot of beneficiaries are not capable of handling cash responsibly.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Yet the attitude of John and Judith over the issue raises concerns.

Look at the alternatives, like Scotland what choice does a sound thinking person have, Labour supported by the looney Greens is not a good solution for NZ.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):

They talked it up as this "moment of truth" to bring the Prime Minister down and probably had the opposite effect.. It was a good laugh.
 
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Aesma
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Look at the alternatives, like Scotland what choice does a sound thinking person have, Labour supported by the looney Greens is not a good solution for NZ.

Corrupt politicians seen as better than "the left", you would fit right in the French right-wing !
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:12 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):

Corrupt politicians seen as better than "the left", you would fit right in the French right-wing !

They is nothing much to separate the sensible left, the NZ Labour Party from the sensible right the NZ National Party, they are both centralist parties, it's the idiots which would have to go into coalition with Labour to form a govt that scare off many traditional Labour voters, the NZ Greens are a bunch of complete nutjobs who would systematically dismantle NZ as we know it today if they ever got in govt.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:14 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
They is nothing much to separate the sensible left, the NZ Labour Party from the sensible right the NZ National Party

there is nothing sensible about NZ politics, it's a joke. They're all not worthy of leading this banana republic
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:56 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Out of curiousity, has the recent Kim Dotcom/Edward Snowden/Glenn Greenwald revelation lovefest had an effect on the polls? Saw some headlines where John Key claimed that it was all misleading and that he'd release the classified documents that would prove it.

After running an appalling campaign, the Kim Dotcom funded Internet Mana Party failed miserably in the election today, with 1.3% of the vote.

No representation for them, even under this wretched MMP system with its list candidates who are chosen by the party. A list candidate can attain a seat in the Parliament without one single person ever voting for them.

John Key and the National Party, on the other hand, had a splendid night and could arguably govern in their own right.

Somewhat sadly, though, Kim Dotcom's Internet party took Hone Harawira down, too, who - very foolishly - aligned his Mana Party with them and lost his seat in the Parliament tonight.

mariner
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
It's been made a major issue because the govt has done a pretty good job, there isn't much to ding them on so this crap came up. We don't have real poverty in NZ, it's an insult to all NZer's to say we have.

Then what do we have in the Far North Maori communities for example?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Look at the parents of many of these children, most of them should never have had children, a lot spend money on booze and smokes, I'm a firm believer in food stamps, a lot of beneficiaries are not capable of handling cash responsibly.

I also would support a more restricted benefit system like this. I've seen first hand the food stamps system in the USA and its excellent. A person I know in Michigan, hasn't had much success with jobs over the last few years, even though she is certified in special needs education. I've gone shopping with her and her young daughter and she has fully explained to me how the food stamps system works. You want smokes or beer? Then cough up your own money!

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
NZ Greens are a bunch of complete nutjobs who would systematically dismantle NZ as we know it today if they ever got in govt.

Some of them are weird, but IMHO having a country with better public transport wouldn't be a bad thing. Another good thing would be to remove the majority of the long distance trucks of our roads and put the freight onto trains. Alaska is a good example for this. Local delivery trucks full for deliveries are loaded in Anchorage onto flat bed train units and transported to the nearest major town/city for night time deliveries in the local region. This removes those big truck and trailer units off the roads which would normally drive to the local regions and then the local delivery trucks would be loaded up. This is also done in several other USA states and Canada and is very effective.


I like National's road of importance plan - especially since its enabled Transmission Gully in Wellington to finally have construction started last week. I remember doing a project on transmission gully in college in 2002 and even back then it was seriously needed. National's roading plans have also enabled the Link road through the Kapiti Coast (North of Wellington) to finally be built. Construction on this started last year. Both of these new roads will remove several bottle neck spots during rush hour/public holidays and enable SH1 to open days or even hours after Wellington's overdue severe earthquake, compared to the current SH1 route
 
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zkojq
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:13 pm

Interesting result. Mainly because all the polls were so far off! Cool little electorate interactive below.
http://data.nzherald.co.nz/electorates

That National can govern alone is a big worry. The party has been very factionalised (though not as much as Labour) between those who want Judith Collins to succeed JK and those who want the successor to be Steven Joyce. With Collins out of the picture and the added bonus that he was the campaign manager this election, Joyce looks set to be National's next leader and, in the interim, get a lot more influence within the party. Because of this, we can sadly expect plenty of blind ideological madness; he is a true buffoon. The party itself has also been very good at getting its supporters to vote strategically, which has burdened the nation with the ACT party for a decade too long. John Key has an incredibly strong brand/image and the reasons why seem somewhat perplexing. He gets away with so much, exemplified by all those times he fakes memory loss. Personally, I really liked the guy up until the end of 2010, but nowdays a lot of my views can be summed up by this http://bit.ly/1tFfwRh. He mentioned in recent times that he very nearly quit in 2013, because he was sick of the job. It wouldn't surprise me all that much if he did so towards the end of the next term. Unfortunately that could result in Steven Joyce replacing him, which would be a disaster.

Oh and the National MP I voted for won her electorate, so I guess that is good. Not all that surprising though, given its probably the bluest electorate in the country (with the exception of the blue electorate that keeps voting yellow).

Labour is in disarray. I think the party has a toxic image to a lot of people in the middle class. Lots of people won't support the party in principle even though they might agree with some key policies. In part, I guess that party has suffered from the mainstreamisation of the Greens. As the Greens move a bit over two the right, they eat away Labour's support. Cunliffe is the party's biggest asset atm. He's an awesome guy and a very capable leader. Given that he's actually reasonably conservative, I often wonder how he ended up as Labour's leader. I hope he doesn't resign as he would make a good prime minister one day. I do have serious doubts though about his party's ability to run the country.

Watching the Greens leader's speeches was hilarious. The polls had them doing really well with expected gains of 2-4 seats. And yet they actually lost one! The leaders were very embarrassed.

The Conservatives loss was rather pleasing. I hate parties that try to get into parliament by getting allies to not run candidates in the appropriate electorate. Throughout the campaign, Winston said that 'a vote for the Conservatives is a wasted vote' and look who was right. Best of all, Colin Craig spend more than a million dollars this election cycle trying to get some seats in parliament, on top of the 1.4 million (?) he spent on the previous cycle and however much it was he spent trying to become mayor of Auckland. It looks like he will never learn. I was hoping that having the Conservatives run Christine Rankin in Epsom might do something to split the vote, but apparently not.

That ACT retained the Epsom electorate yet again is very disappointing. If the left had half a clue, they would have got the local Labour and Greens supporters to vote for National's Paul Goldsmith. Had they done so (and voters obeyed), Goldsmith would have been elected and ACT would have finally been booted out. Similarly in Ohariu, if the Greens got their supporters to give their electorate votes to Labour, United Future would have been kicked out.

Internet Mana was in trouble as soon as Winston supported Labour's Kelvin Davis. Bit awkward for Dotcom now, given that his toxic image has cost Hone Harawira his seat in parliament (massive gain for the taxpayer, given how much he spends with his parliamentary credit card).

Great night for us at New Zealand First. Three more seats in parliament and the party doesn't need to choose to coalition with the left or the right (either of which would alienate a decent portion of the voters). Things were fantastic at the party's election party I even ended up on tv a few times, though I'm not sure if the interview I did with TV3 was aired or not. Great closing speech by Winston too; he's an incredibly popular guy and more so than ever now. Oh and I got to do the elevator thing whereby the presence of me (as well some other members) in the elevator stops journalists getting in and antagonising Winston.

Voter turnout was 67.7%. Shameful. Last time around it was 74%, which was itself disappointing.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Huge issue mainly in Auckland

And Christchurch, where the earthquake destroyed lots of the housing stock.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
I would like to see some govt some day put there balls on the line and abolish the maori seats, maori are able to be elected on the general roll, no need for special representation, we are one country, we don't need an artificial maori electorate.

I agree completely. From Maori seats to Whanau Ora, race based policies are stupid. From memory, there are 18 Maori MPs (or 18% of MPs are Maori) as of the previous election, which means that Maori are well represented in parliament. The following article is interesting, given hindsight.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10534713

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Out of curiousity, has the recent Kim Dotcom/Edward Snowden/Glenn Greenwald revelation lovefest had an effect on the polls?

The media didn't report it very well. They centered reporting on Dotcom (and that there weren't any revelations about him) and completely glossed over what Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald had to say which was disappointing. I don't think the revelations had much of an effect on the government, but they certainly didn't do Dotcom and his Internet Mana party any favours.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Saw some headlines where John Key claimed that it was all misleading and that he'd release the classified documents that would prove it.

The media also had very little focus on how the prime minister was selectively declassifying certain GCSB documents for his political benefit which was disappointing.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
I don't think this is an issue worthy of changing the govt over.

Well it depends on how wide the issue is. Thankfully, the inquiry that the Prime Minister announced was nice and narrow, so we will probably never know. If the Justice Minister has been trying to harm the head of the Serious Fraud Office on behalf of a mate who is being paid by a guy under investigation, then that's a massive issue. Leaking private details of a public servant to a blogger is also unacceptable. Five years I used to quite like Collins...not so much now, though at least she's better than Joyce.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Fully support this! I'm sick and tired of hearing about Maori rights. Were one country and one population - not two populations.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
If it wasn't then why are we still hearing about children going to school with no breakfast/lunch or not even having shoes/basic warm winter clothes?

  

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
the NZ Greens are a bunch of complete nutjobs who would systematically dismantle NZ as we know it today if they ever got in govt.

They've got better in recent years. Still not my cup of tea by a long shot.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 8):

I'm young and optimistic, but give it a decade or two and I could well come around to your way of thinking.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Some of them are weird, but IMHO having a country with better public transport wouldn't be a bad thing.

     

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Another good thing would be to remove the majority of the long distance trucks of our roads and put the freight onto trains.

   KiwiRail has been successively run down by various owners for ages. Its in a terrible state.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
I like National's road of importance plan

Ditto. Especially the 'Holiday Highway'. Makes my journey between home and the farm much quicker. An honourable mention goes to the new Kopu Bridge. Crazy that the old single lane one wasn't replaced for so long. I think Transmission Gully will be good for Wellington too.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):

Then what do we have in the Far North Maori communities for example?

No idea, but the area is isolated with bugger all jobs, sensible people would move away.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
Voter turnout was 67.7%. Shameful. Last time around it was 74%, which was itself disappointing.

We should do what Australia does and make it mandatory, fine those who don't.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
With Collins out of the picture and the added bonus that he was the campaign manager this election, Joyce looks set to be National's next leader

He'll have to wait a while, Key is still fairly young, 53, I get the feeling he would like to be NZ's first 4 term PM.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
He's an awesome guy and a very capable leader.

Really? I think he often comes across as a real twit and is often looking lost.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
cost Hone Harawira his seat in parliament

The only good thing that came from Kim's dalliance in NZ politics.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
An honourable mention goes to the new Kopu Bridge.

When I was a kid the annual camping holiday to The Glades Motorcamp in Pauanui was always held up for several hour here, I hated that bridge with a passion.

Next thing I'd like to see is the term increased from 3 years to 4, 3 years is too short, especially when about 1/3 of it is spent setting up the govt after the election and getting ready for the next.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Yet its still a major issue. If it wasn't then why are we still hearing about children going to school with no breakfast/lunch or not even having shoes/basic warm winter clothes?

  

I have a mate who is a school teacher in Otangarei, the poorest district of Whangarei, In view of the debate about literacy/numeracy:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11319907

"NZ pupils struggling to speak

Fewer children starting school can speak in sentences, prompting an investigation by education chiefs"


I asked my chum what his first priority was with the children that he teaches. He replied "to make sure they are fed."

But even more than that, I'd love to see the country get serious about the appalling rates of child abuse, and even infanticide.

mariner
 
wstakl
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
The only good thing that came from Kim's dalliance in NZ politics.

Why? It has always amazed me how peoples opinion of Hone gets them so fired up. In the eyes of many New Zealanders I believe it's because he is outspoken and Maori. The good old Kiwi past time of thinking anyone with a strong opinion MUST be negative!

What people forget is a MP's job is to represent the interests and concerns of the electorate in parliament and to be honest Hone has done an excellent job at doing this. Sure, some of the stuff he says is a little 'out there' but good on him for saying what he truly believes in and representing the people of the North. At least we heard from him, unlike many of the clowns (including list MP's) that once voted in seem to go silent or puppy dog to their dear leader........Simon Bridges anyone?

Actually, what is more farcical is that parties like ACT, United Future and the Maori Party get people into parliament despite getting nowhere near 5% of the party vote.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
Cunliffe is the party's biggest asset atm. He's an awesome guy and a very capable leader.

This I can't agree with, well maybe the awesome guy bit as he does come across as an alright kinda bloke, more so than the other dude who is getting another 3 years! The fact many people voted for their Labor candidate but not the party suggests that something is seriously wrong with the leadership.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 8):
there is nothing sensible about NZ politics, it's a joke. They're all not worthy of leading this banana republic

Co-sign
 
wstakl
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
Things were fantastic at the party's election party I even ended up on tv a few times, though I'm not sure if the interview I did with TV3 was aired or not. Great closing speech by Winston too; he's an incredibly popular guy and more so than ever now. Oh and I got to do the elevator thing whereby the presence of me (as well some other members) in the elevator stops journalists getting in and antagonising Winston.

Yep, Winston was on fine form as ever. Thought he could of busted out another '2 wongs don't make a wight' joke again but not to be (best joke of the campaign and WAS funny) Saw a TV1 interview by a party member who got a little defensive when asked if NZFirst was a party for the blue rinse brigade. He suggested a camera should pan around and see all the younger people in attendance. That TV3 reporter was determined to have her question answered by Winston while he was waiting for the elevator. How many ways can you you reword the exact same question?!

[Edited 2014-09-20 14:37:03]
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting wstakl (Reply 15):
. Thought he could of busted out another '2 wongs don't make a wight' joke again but not to be (best joke of the campaign and WAS funny)

It was a very long way from original, though.

It was first used by Arthur Calwell, the Australian Minister for Immigration back in 1947, and has been used as a slur on Asians ever since.

Clever? Certainly. Divisive? I think so. Funny? Well, if you like that kind of thing.

mariner
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:53 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Then what do we have in the Far North Maori communities for example?
No idea, but the area is isolated with bugger all jobs, sensible people would move away.

How can many people move from the Far North to a more better area when the region has the lowest income, massive unemployment and worst education record? If your not educated and have little money then how do you move away to help yourself?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):With Collins out of the picture and the added bonus that he was the campaign manager this election, Joyce looks set to be National's next leader
He'll have to wait a while, Key is still fairly young, 53, I get the feeling he would like to be NZ's first 4 term PM.

Hopefully his memory serves him better and he learns what his department is doing. He is the PM, so his answers in relation to the official information requests and many other things over the dirty politics saga is simply pathetic! He says he is telling his MPs to pull their heads in for the 3rd term so clearly he is concerned by his MPs attitudes. Especially after Judith Collins and her final final warning, I would certainly be concerned also.

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
I asked my chum what his first priority was with the children that he teaches. He replied "to make sure they are fed."

When a teacher says that, then it is clearly obvious that the Government has FAILED, and yes this Government has failed the lower income areas. So its perfectly ok for Paula Bennett to buy her own home on the DPB, yet she removes all hope for other people who need the DPB? Yes some people are cheats on the system, but there are others who generally need to the DPB.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 14):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12): The only good thing that came from Kim's dalliance in NZ politics.
Why? It has always amazed me how peoples opinion of Hone gets them so fired up. In the eyes of many New Zealanders I believe it's because he is outspoken and Maori. The good old Kiwi past time of thinking anyone with a strong opinion MUST be negative!

I for one am glad he is gone considering his family and their history. His attitude and language is shocking. I know many Maori who are tired of him. They refuse to call the white population Pakeha, yet he loves the word
 
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zkojq
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RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:18 am

Why did the Greens bother running any electorate candidates? None came close to winning and there were some* of cases where their presence divided the left vote, letting National (or the National endorsed candidate) win the seat. Given that there's no chance in hell of the Greens allying with National, what's the point?

*Auckland Central (seriously, the electorate most dependent on public transport voted for the candidate least supportive of it), Ohariu, Epsom.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
We should do what Australia does and make it mandatory, fine those who don't.

  
If you don't like politics, you can always vote for the Civilian party. Or strike the ballot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHxqk2Xfyns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfSza...E-eQ&list=UUfQAuw8w_Nj0kTDTdD6WidA

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
He'll have to wait a while, Key is still fairly young, 53, I get the feeling he would like to be NZ's first 4 term PM.

He nearly gave up during the second term. When the going gets tough, I don't think there will be a lot stopping him moving on. He could make a lot more in the private sector.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
Really? I think he often comes across as a real twit and is often looking lost.

He has the perfect balance of kindness, assertiveness and smarmyness. Who would make a better Labour leader in your view?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
When I was a kid the annual camping holiday to The Glades Motorcamp in Pauanui was always held up for several hour here, I hated that bridge with a passion.

Ditto, but to The Coromandel.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 14):
Actually, what is more farcical is that parties like ACT, United Future and the Maori Party get people into parliament despite getting nowhere near 5% of the party vote.

Agreed. Stuff like this makes MMP, which is far superior to FPP, loose credibility. Given that the Right Wing parties do 'strategic voting' all the time, so why don't the Left Wing parties even attempt it?

Today the Prime Minister said that he would like to coalition with United Future, ACT and the Maori Party to make a coalition with broader support. But this is BS, since the only reason these party's got seats in the first place was because of Key telling National supporters to give them their electorate votes. In the case of United Future, even the morons at Legalise Cannibis Party got more votes.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 14):
In the eyes of many New Zealanders I believe it's because he is outspoken and Maori

My gripe with him is this. Oh and the racism.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10906845

Quoting wstakl (Reply 15):
Saw a TV1 interview by a party member who got a little defensive when asked if NZFirst was a party for the blue rinse brigade.

Wouldn't of been me. I mainly talked about how stupid it was that people have to pay GST on rates. Tax on a tax = crazy.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 15):
He suggested a camera should pan around and see all the younger people in attendance.

There were quite a few of us!

Quoting wstakl (Reply 15):
'2 wongs don't make a wight'

He got internally sanctioned quite harshly for that. If he was going to do it, he could at least bothered to make reference to the sirname of the ACT party leader.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
Clever? Certainly. Divisive? I think so. Funny? Well, if you like that kind of thing.

It was unhelpful and unnecessary, but I doubt it changed the way anyone voted.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
How can many people move from the Far North to a more better area when the region has the lowest income, massive unemployment and worst education record?

Through neo-conservative magic?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
Hopefully his memory serves him better and he learns what his department is doing. He is the PM, so his answers in relation to the official information requests and many other things over the dirty politics saga is simply pathetic!

Agreed and the media have been partly complicit for letting him get away with so much on the memory front. Cunliffe would never have been able to get away with so much. With the debates, you could always tell who won by the frontpage of Stuff or The Herald afterwards. If Key won, there would be a large article on how well he did, if Cunliffe won there would be nothing at all relevant (bar all the National Party ads which both websites were plastered with) http://bit.ly/1v5z1RH.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
He says he is telling his MPs to pull their heads in for the 3rd term so clearly he is concerned by his MPs attitudes.

I hope they comply!

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
I for one am glad he is gone considering his family and their history. His attitude and language is shocking. I know many Maori who are tired of him.

His mother, Titewhai, is horrible and incredibly divisive. Though a bit less so now, since she is old.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
Voter turnout was 67.7%. Shameful. Last time around it was 74%, which was itself disappointing.

Correction, it was 77%, so I retract the above comment.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 11):
Voter turnout was 67.7%. Shameful

In this election not voting was the best option. Not voting is a democratic privilege as much as voting. New Zealand actually needs an abstained vote option. I would rather abstain my vote and voice my disgust than vote for someone I thought was no good, or indeed not vote at all but that was the only option left to me. I suspect with an abstained vote, more people would have voted, and also more of those who voted would have abstained.

All MPs have failed NZ yet again - yes we pay lipservice to democracy every 3 years but for the other 2.5 years they fuck around and bicker and muckrake, don't turn up to Parliament to vote (on behalf of their electorate not their own opinion), ignore any referendum that comes their way.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
We should do what Australia does and make it mandatory, fine those who don't.

Why?

I dislike MMP - I didn't vote last time and almost didn't vote this time. I only did so because I liked one particular candidate.

I'll vote for a person, but I will not vote for a party. They could fine me up the wazoo, I don't care, it doesn't change that.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 18):
It was unhelpful and unnecessary, but I doubt it changed the way anyone voted.

I've no idea if it changed the way anyone voted, but it was smart-arse and pointlessly divisive.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
In this election not voting was the best option. Not voting is a democratic privilege as much as voting. New Zealand actually needs an abstained vote option.

  

mariner

[Edited 2014-09-21 04:06:43]
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13688
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting wstakl (Reply 14):
In the eyes of many New Zealanders I believe it's because he is outspoken and Maori.

He could be white and I'd still dislike him.

Quoting wstakl (Reply 14):
Actually, what is more farcical is that parties like ACT, United Future and the Maori Party get people into parliament despite getting nowhere near 5% of the party vote.

You'll get no argument from me on this one, MMP is a stupid system, MP's should be directly elected by the electorate and accountable to that electorate.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
How can many people move from the Far North to a more better area when the region has the lowest income, massive unemployment and worst education record? If your not educated and have little money then how do you move away to help yourself?

Catch 22, there isn't an answer, but why should taxpayers in the rest of the country have to support these people when they aren't making an effort to support themselves.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 18):
Who would make a better Labour leader in your view?

I have no idea, most are career politicians, I don't like the idea of a career politician, MP's should have some time in the real world before being elected to office.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
I'll vote for a person, but I will not vote for a party. They could fine me up the wazoo, I don't care, it doesn't change that.

That is your right, but you should at the very least turn up to a polling station.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
That is your right, but you should at the very least turn up to a polling station.

If I don't intended to vote, that seems quite pointless.

mariner
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:42 pm

I was so disgusted by the outcome of the election that on Sunday morning I gave serious consideration to selling all my stuff and moving overseas.

I am deeply ashamed of my fellow kiwis, our 'clean green' environment is a lie and this government will only make it worse, there is a growing underclass who desperately need help, the number of homeless is growing... and people voted on the basis of "I'm fine and I don't give a shit about anyone else" .... we used to care about people ... clearly now the average kiwi is only out for their own short term interests. I am relieved that I don't have children, I would hate to have to explain to them down the track why they can't swim in the ocean anymore, or what happened to the Maui dolphin, or why they can't go hiking in the Karangahake Gorge.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13688
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 23):
there is a growing underclass who desperately need help, the number of homeless is growing

No there isn't. Even the numbers of children living below the poverty line is lower than it's been since 2007. You've been buying into the lefty green side of things.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 23):
I would hate to have to explain to them down the track why they can't swim in the ocean anymore, or what happened to the Maui dolphin, or why they can't go hiking in the Karangahake Gorge.

You've got to be kidding?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
No there isn't. Even the numbers of children living below the poverty line is lower than it's been since 2007. You've been buying into the lefty green side of things.

I have been back in New Zealand since 2010... the number of homeless people I see every day on the streets is far higher than it was when I left in 2004. You can choose to believe official statistics if you wish, I believe what I see.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13688
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:13 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 25):
I have been back in New Zealand since 2010... the number of homeless people I see every day on the streets is far higher than it was when I left in 2004.

You're looking back with rose tinted glasses.

The problem for Labour is they are pretty much aligned with National on all but a few issues, for them to come into power they have to have support from the greens, the average Kiwi is pretty iffy about the greens, so as long as Labour will need the greens to get into the hot seats they will not win an election, the voters will stick with National.

IMO most of what National has done over the past 6 years Labour would also have done, it's pretty much a continuation of what Helen was up to in her 9 years.
 
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zkojq
Topic Author
Posts: 4731
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:54 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 23):
I was so disgusted by the outcome of the election that on Sunday morning I gave serious consideration to selling all my stuff and moving overseas.

It would be tempting to move across the ditch permanently, if it wasn't for the fact that their PM is just a more charismatic and religiously minded version of Steven Joyce.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 23):
I am deeply ashamed of my fellow kiwis, our 'clean green' environment is a lie and this government will only make it worse

Yet the only time the PM has ever been properly taken to task for this was in the BBC Hardtalk interview. For the record, I'm not blaming the govt for the problem, but something more substantial has to be done to fix these issues, particularly the filthy rivers.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
I don't like the idea of a career politician, MP's should have some time in the real world before being elected to office.

  

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
Even the numbers of children living below the poverty line is lower than it's been since 2007.

So why did the government have to start a school breakfast program then?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...brekkie-for-low-decile-school-kids

And now they are open for other suggestions.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...535794/Child-poverty-on-Key-agenda

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):
The problem for Labour is they are pretty much aligned with National on all but a few issues, for them to come into power they have to have support from the greens, the average Kiwi is pretty iffy about the greens, so as long as Labour will need the greens to get into the hot seats they will not win an election

The underlying problem for them is that the left is more divided than the right. Overall though, I think its great that there are so many different parties in parliament - even if ACT and United Future shouldn't be there.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13688
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 27):
So why did the government have to start a school breakfast program then?

Simple feel good politics, the lefties were going to do it so the Nats stole there thunder.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 27):
Overall though, I think its great that there are so many different parties in parliament

I think it leads to ineffective govt where minority parties have significanlty more say than their percentage of the vote should allow.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:46 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):
You're looking back with rose tinted glasses.

On the contrary, if you think things are fine back here in NZ then you are the one wearing the rose coloured glasses. Next time you visit I suggest you take off your blinkers and look at the number of homeless and beggars. We are creating a growing underclass and if this is not fixed we will inevitably reap the results in the form of increased social unrest.
 
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zkojq
Topic Author
Posts: 4731
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):
I think it leads to ineffective govt where minority parties have significanlty more say than their percentage of the vote should allow.

Compared to FPP where every viewpoint other than those of the largest two parties gets squashed.  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):
Simple feel good politics, the lefties were going to do it so the Nats stole there thunder.

Right...

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 29):
We are creating a growing underclass and if this is not fixed we will inevitably reap the results in the form of increased social unrest.

The most affected are the working classes and working poor. These are the ones that are most affected by the GST rise, ACC levy hikes etc.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13688
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 29):
On the contrary, if you think things are fine back here in NZ then you are the one wearing the rose coloured glasses.

My family and friends are all doing fine. You don't see people in NZ begging like I see in Norway, Roma gyspies on every street corner, even in the small town I live in. We don't have hundreds of homeless camping rough in city parks, like we do here, I've never seen a homeless human poop in front of the House of Parliament in Wellington like I saw in Oslo a couple of years ago. So no as far as I'm concerned we don't have a homeless problem.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:13 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
My family and friends are all doing fine.

... and that sums up the problem with the recent election... kiwis no longer care about other people 
 
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zkojq
Topic Author
Posts: 4731
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:37 pm

National has (predictably) formed a coalition agreement with ACT and United Future.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...f,-act-sign-up-to-support-national

Meanwhile, it looks as though there is going to be a pretty big battle for the leadership of the Labour Party. Will be fun to watch.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
You don't see people in NZ begging

Um, yes you do. But yes, it is much less prevalent here than in much of the rest of the world.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
We don't have hundreds of homeless camping rough in city parks, like we do here

Might want to take a look at Grafton Gully. Loads of tents there now.   Whether or not that can be attributed to government policy, I guess is another argument.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10192576/Aucklands-hidden-homeless
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:43 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
John Key and the National Party, on the other hand, had a splendid night and could arguably govern in their own right.

Unfortunately Mariner......

The final tally has come in and John Key and The National Party can no longer govern alone as the final election results left them with one fewer seat than on election night.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337042
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:16 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):
Unfortunately Mariner......

The final tally has come in and John Key and The National Party can no longer govern alone as the final election results left them with one fewer seat than on election night.

LOL - Key's a pragmatist, he covered his arse by bringing in coalition partners before the special votes were counted, so he got the deals on his terms.

I didn't vote for him, but I think he's a clever politician.

Given the chaos of the Labour party, I think it's probably the best result - none of the major parties here are extreme, they're all centrist, there's no chance of rabid right wingers swinging their handbags, as in Australia.

Hopefully - hopefully - Key resists the call to send troops to Iraq, but the usual suspects are calling on him to do it.

mariner
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: New Zealand General Election 2014

Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:19 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Hopefully - hopefully - Key resists the call to send troops to Iraq, but the usual suspects are calling on him to do it.

Gosh I hope you are right !

And good on NZ if you sit this one out.

I feel extremely disheartened that we (Australia) have become involved yet again. For some strange reason the pervious 2/3 Gov's have jumped right on in behind the US, no questions......

Yet !

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