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Ken777
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Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:55 pm

Quote:

Police said Friday a man recently fired from a food processing plant in an Oklahoma City suburb beheaded a woman with a knife and was attacking another worker when he was shot and wounded by the owner of the company.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/...a-3f6e-59ee-948d-a8259d7db65d.html

No black ISIS flag and this cannot be considered a planned attack, but the influence of ISIS is clear with the beheading.

As a side note, Moore OK was recently devastated by a tornado and is still in the rebuilding process. They certainly didn't need this.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:06 pm

He might have been inspired by IS but I doubt it was planned. To me it looks more like revenge for being fired. At least he wasn't killed so the police will be able to find out what exactly happened and if there is an IS movement in the states.

/Lars
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
No black ISIS flag and this cannot be considered a planned attack, but the influence of ISIS is clear with the beheading.

But apparently he IS a Muslim and was trying to convert his co-workers...

http://www.kjrh.com/news/state/moore...-workplace-attack-that-left-1-dead
 
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pvjin
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

Not very surprising, I'm sure there are a lot of sickos, especially those of Muslim faith who are getting inspired by high media publicity beheadings committed by ISIS.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:18 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
But apparently he IS a Muslim and was trying to convert his co-workers...
http://www.kjrh.com/news/state/moore...-workplace-attack-that-left-1-dead

Well, let's be fair Dreadnaught, he doesn't look Iranian and to me he looks 100% African American and homegrown. His name isn't Islamic either so he clearly wasn't born one.

http://www.koco.com/news/moore-polic...-active-shooter-situation/28250834

Let's hear your propaganda on Iran again. "Leading State Sponsor of Terrorism"...

I don't remember the Ayatollahs cutting off anyone's head in the past 35 years.
 
Ken777
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 4):
Well, let's be fair Dreadnaught

I believe that he is being fair as the reports identify Alton Nolen as a Muslim.

Because of that there are fair questions on how much of an impact that ISIS has had on the guy, are there local groups "motivated" by ISIS and are there radical Imams that influenced the guy.

We really don't know - Alton Nolen may have simply been a nut who thinks ISIS is neat an decided to behead the woman after killing her simply because he thinks it would be neat.

I personally feel sorry for any defense attorney signed by a judge to represent this guy. Oklahoman's have little sympathy for brutal killers and I don't see any dense attorney rushing to get the publicity of defending this guy. Clearly a task for a judge to assign.

While Oklahoma might have had a problem with a previous execution I have no doubt that the Warden will ensure everything is set up properly for Mr. Nolen.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:07 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 4):
Well, let's be fair Dreadnaught, he doesn't look Iranian and to me he looks 100% African American and homegrown.

I don't consider being Iranian a problem, or being black. Islam, particularly the fundamentalist sort, is the problem.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I don't consider being Iranian a problem, or being black. Islam, particularly the fundamentalist sort, is the problem.

Yup pretty much, But straight away you get the apologists flocking. Its never anything to do with Islam even though every single perp in this trend is always a muslim. Its just some "rogue man". Like the 2 guys that beheaded the soldier in London, Like the man the other week who beheaded a grandmother in London. Like the plot to behead an Australian the other week. No no no no it is Not worth discussing, These guys have nothing in common at all. In fact is is all our fault because we enjoy freedom and the chance to live normally without some vengeful sky fairy commanding our every turn. Its a religion of "peace" dont cha know. The longer the moderates stay quiet the worse it will backfire on them in the long run.
 
Okie
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting giancavia (Reply 7):
Its just some "rogue man". Like the 2 guys that beheaded the soldier in London, Like the man the other week who beheaded a grandmother in London

It will be considered work place violence the same as Hasan killing 13 and wounding 32 at Ft Hood or Muhammad killing 2 at the recruiting office in Little Rock.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 3):
Not very surprising, I'm sure there are a lot of sickos, especially those of Muslim faith who are getting inspired by high media publicity beheadings committed by ISIS.

They go for their 15 minutes of fame same as the school shootings it makes the news.


Okie
 
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seb146
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RE: Beheading In US

Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Islam, particularly the fundamentalist sort, is the problem.

One could also substitute the word "Christian" for "Islam" and it would still be a true statement.

I think it is a shame that this one person sets back millions of other peaceful Muslims in this country. Much like Pat Robertson sets back millions of other peaceful Christians in this country. No, Pat Robertson is not calling for beheadings but he is calling for at least a three class system: heterosexual men the top and most powerful group, heterosexual women subservient and everyone else picking through their garbage.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:12 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I don't consider being Iranian a problem, or being black. Islam, particularly the fundamentalist sort, is the problem.

My point isn't on Islam its that he's not an outsider, he's 100% American, probably born here too. In other words, natural born Americans are apparently able and willing to cut off each other's heads. This is very disturbing to me. I only know of 5 places where something like this has happened. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Algeria and the United States.

And Americans think Iran is backwards? Both government and private citizens in Iran are inundated with Islam 24/7 and I have never heard of this kind of behavior. You get a stoning every 3-4 years in some isolated village but that's more tribal behavior that pre-dates Islam.
 
AR385
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:07 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14):
My point isn't on Islam its that he's not an outsider, he's 100% American, probably born here too.

I don´t think what you say holds if the guy is mentally ill. If he is, his nationality or religion is irrelevant. Do we know that yet?

About 2 months ago a young man in Argentina stabbed to death in the middle of the day a young lady in a bank. She had the misfortune of being there to cash a check. He was a "functioning" schizophrenic that stopped his meds. He was white, and Christian.

In today´s incident, did he kill the person and then beheaded her, or was beheading the method of killing? Because I read somewhere the beheading came afterwards. That speaks of a rather ill person more than someone acting on IS orders or imitating them.

Anyway, this sort of stuff (workplace violence) has been happening in the US for a while now. They used guns though. I think this is an outlier case of a real nut finally going off the deep end.

[Edited 2014-09-26 23:13:11]
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:10 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
I don´t think what you say holds if the guy is mentally ill. If he is, his nationality or religion is irrelevant. Do we know that yet?

His religion is not irrelevant, His facebook page is full of sharia crap. He was trying to convert people at work and had been warned.

This is everything to do with religion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-Sharia-law-coming-Facebook.html

"He apparently celebrated terrorism on Facebook in months before attack"
"He posted image of Pope Benedict XVI, saying: 'SHARIA LAW IS COMING!'"
"Also uploaded photo of 9/11, writing Statue of Liberty is 'going into flames' "

http://www.examiner.com/list/oklahom...lton-nolen-s-social-media-postings

It is pretty clear he was a Islamic fanatic, Why try to hide it.. feel free to click those links and look at what he was up to.
 
Fiesta13
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting giancavia (Reply 12):

His religion is not irrelevant, His facebook page is full of sharia crap. He was trying to convert people at work and had been warned.

This is everything to do with religion.

It has everything to do with the perversion of religion. Judiasm and Christianity have had their own people like this throughout the centuries, and Islam is no different. Crusades; pogroms; inquisitions. You name it, and it's happend In The Name Of God.
 
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seb146
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting giancavia (Reply 12):
This is everything to do with religion.

Much like Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, and Pat Robertson on the Christian side.

It is a shame that people point to a few nut jobs and say "I told you Islam is awful!" but think Westboro Baptist should be left alone because "America is a Christian nation."
 
Fiesta13
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Quoting giancavia (Reply 12):
This is everything to do with religion.

Much like Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, and Pat Robertson on the Christian side.

It is a shame that people point to a few nut jobs and say "I told you Islam is awful!" but think Westboro Baptist should be left alone because "America is a Christian nation."

Bingo!

Now, to be fair, our Christian loonies haven't taken it to the extreme of the Islamic loonies, but they're more alike than either would care to admit. One reason I don't want to see a Republican in the White House.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):

Quoting giancavia (Reply 12):
This is everything to do with religion.

Much like Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, and Pat Robertson on the Christian side.

It is a shame that people point to a few nut jobs and say "I told you Islam is awful!" but think Westboro Baptist should be left alone because "America is a Christian nation."

That is a pretty poor example. I don't think many people are saying WBC should be left alone because they are "Christians" but rather because they are not worth giving media attention to/have first amendment rights.

A better example would be the extreme megachurches who preach hate and promote things such as gay conversion therapy. They might not be advocating physical violence outright, but the things they preach promote emotional and psychological violence against others.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Much like Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, and Pat Robertson on the Christian side.

It is a shame that people point to a few nut jobs and say "I told you Islam is awful!" but think Westboro Baptist should be left alone because "America is a Christian nation."

I don't disagree, I personally find all belief in imaginary sky beings nonsensical. One of them is standing supreme amongst the others in the current day though when it comes to murder, hatred and being used as a tool of violence and oppression.

The problem is it isn't a "few nut jobs". Look how quickly Isis recruited an army of cretins, Half of them seem to have been hiding amongst our populations. What do the moderates say? "oh we didnt know" "oh he was a good boy" "oh USA and Israel is to blame" instead of attacking the fanatics they stay quiet or search for excuses which just allows this all to breed and continue.

I want to live a simple life, Go to work.. enjoy my free time .. without the threat of some psychotic loony destroying where I live because his imaginary super hero doesn't like boobs, bacon, music or freedom. Ive made my point in enough threads though.. does get rather repetitive so I shall digress.
 
HOMER71
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:41 pm

No surprise here: another thread about an atrocity by a possible radical Islamist and the usual suspects coming out and letting everyone know that it applies to Christians as well  
Quoting okie (Reply 8):
It will be considered work place violence

Yes, it will be...now back to Ferguson and charging the cop with a hate crime/capital murder/terrorism

Sincerely, the DOJ
 
Superfly
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 4):
Well, let's be fair Dreadnaught, he doesn't look Iranian and to me he looks 100% African American and homegrown. His name isn't Islamic either so he clearly wasn't born one.

What does Iranian have to do with any of this? Islamic terrorist come in all colors from every continent. Race or ethnicity has nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with Islam.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Islam, particularly the fundamentalist sort, is the problem.

  

Quoting giancavia (Reply 7):
Yup pretty much, But straight away you get the apologists flocking. Its never anything to do with Islam even though every single perp in this trend is always a muslim.

These left-wing apologist will defend these terrorist even if it kills them.
Solarflyer22's comments trying to frame this as a racial issue underscores the lack of understanding (or denial) of the seriousness an gravity of Islamic fundamentalist.


Luckily a God fearing, gun 'nut' prevented a 2nd. beheading from happening.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...d-Already-Beheaded-One-In-Oklahoma

Will outgoing Attorney General Eric Holder reassign the 40 FBI agents from Ferguson, Missouri to Oklahoma?
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
don´t think what you say holds if the guy is mentally ill. If he is, his nationality or religion is irrelevant. Do we know that yet?

I mean the guy had a job until being fired that day, he obviously wrote and communicated on Facebook and prostelizing. That doesn't fit the definition of a schizophrenic unless he was medicated.

Quoting giancavia (Reply 12):
His religion is not irrelevant, His facebook page is full of sharia crap. He was trying to convert people at work and had been warned.
This is everything to do with religion.

To extent. Again, I don't see anyone in Iran buying the " Let's go convert and/or kill Infidels and behead someone" . The US has a number of uncultured, ignorant, disaffected and naive people. When you have that in significant numbers in your population something is going pop. Its a dream come true for the Islamists people doing to converting. If you look at these people too , they often bounce between religions. Sometimes born again Christians, sometimes Islam, sometimes a cult like David Koresh.

Sunni Islam in particular spouts some deadly stuff. The Shia don't espouse this because they''re already heretic, technically speaking. This ideology has not taken root in the majority Shia countries of Iran, Azerbaijan and Bahrain. I have never heard of infidel slaying or beheading in those nations.

You are in a long term struggle with Sunni Islam and it's desire to kill or convert infidels from the Levant to Oklahoma unfortunately. And the largest Shia, Non-Arab nation in the world doesn't like you or trust you either. You are in quite a pickle.
 
Okie
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting homer71 (Reply 18):

Yes, it will be...now back to Ferguson and charging the cop with a hate crime/capital murder/terrorism

Sincerely, the DOJ

Nolan will be charged with state charges of 1st degree murder today. Leaving the first building arming himself and entering the second building to commit murder and behead pretty much meets any requirement of premeditation.

It will be interesting to see if the DOJ gets involved to protect him from state trial.
Some local spinup groups are calling for an DOJ investigation into Nolan's civil rights being violated when the reserve sheriff shot him while beheading the victim and stabbing the second.

So far it appears they are not getting much traction here but we will see if the DOJ intervenes.

Okie
 
PHX787
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:51 pm

This is seriously pathetic.

So much for the "peaceful" religion. I highly doubt that any of the moderates have any power to control their own anymore.
 
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seb146
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RE: Beheading In US

Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
So much for the "peaceful" religion. I highly doubt that any of the moderates have any power to control their own anymore.

This is exactly what I am talking about: because one idiot in Oklahoma sees another idiot in the Middle East, blame the whole system. That is not how it works. If it did, that means that ALL Christian sects believe in turning their backs on gays unless they convert and that ALL Christian sects follow the all gays are filth and slime.

Likewise, not all Muslims will behead non-believers.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:03 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
What does Iranian have to do with any of this? Islamic terrorist come in all colors from every continent. Race or ethnicity has nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with Islam.

I'm referring to the fact Iranians are run by a Islamist regime and surrounded by extremist on 3 sides (Taliban, Saudi Wahabbists, ISIS). In the shit show that surrounds Persians, and has for a while, I don't see anyone buying this Islamic BS and cutting off heads. What I do see, being Iranian myself, is a backlash toward Islam.

The reason isn't race, its culture. The US has significant numbers of ignorant, uncultured citizens vulnerable to stupid ideas like killing infidels or mass spree shooting at schools etc. Educated, history loving, cultured people (i.e. Persians) don't fall for the Islamic propaganda in the first place or they figure it out pretty quick.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Solarflyer22's comments trying to frame this as a racial issue underscores the lack of understanding (or denial) of the seriousness an gravity of Islamic fundamentalist.

Lol, yeah I'm Shiite Iranian-American with experience working and living in America and in Saudi Arabia. Pretty well versed on all 3, thank you. It's a pretty simple idea I'm communicating:

SHIA MUSLIM DON'T ADVOCATE THE DE-CAPITATION OF INFIDELS BECAUSE WE'RE INFIDELS TOO.

The "Islamic Extremism" you are fighting is a SUNNI phenomena, that's who puts out these YouTube videos, who preaches and recruits on the Internet and that's who got inside the head of this idiot in Oklahoma. Ever notice that ISIS, Taliban and Al Qaeda are all SUNNIs ? America certainly hasn't though its hardly rocket science.

I'm not in denial of Islamic Fundamentalism and its threat, I'm specifying for you and others who and what the threat is and where its coming from. I am also stating there are a lot of other Morons out there in America that are vulnerable to this type of propaganda because its not a particularly educated or cultured society in general (In my opinion and in the opinion of many Persians).

So you have a big problem basically, and you're natural ally in this confrontation, Shia Persian Iran, is going to sit back and enjoy the show. Pity, I know many of us would love to just roll in a crush ISIS like the camel milk drinking bedouins they are.
 
Fiesta13
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:49 am

Quoting okie (Reply 21):
It will be interesting to see if the DOJ gets involved to protect him from state trial.
Some local spinup groups are calling for an DOJ investigation into Nolan's civil rights being violated when the reserve sheriff shot him while beheading the victim and stabbing the second.

If you believe the DOJ will somehow protect this criminal, you've been watching FOX News way too long.

And do you have a link to these groups you mention? I'd be interested in seeing them.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 24):
The "Islamic Extremism" you are fighting is a SUNNI phenomena

Therein lies one of the problems the U.S. and the West have had in dealing with the Middle East: they haven't studied in-depth the history of the internal Islamic strife that has been in the region for centuries. A few posters on here obviously have the inclination that "well, one Muslim is the same as the other", but the Shia and Sunni sects, and other smaller sects have been at each other for generations. The fact we don't understand that is one reason why we're in this mess George W. caused back in 2003.

Not all Muslims are extremists, and not all extremists are Muslim.
 
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seb146
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 24):
Educated, history loving, cultured people (i.e. Persians) don't fall for the Islamic propaganda in the first place or they figure it out pretty quick.

To translate: Not all Muslims are Shia just as not all Christians are Mormon. Calling the group in Syria and Iraq "Islamic State" is a misnomer since they are a sect of Islam and do not represent the entire religion.

Not that Fox or MSM will change that. That fear if Islam is what sells.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:06 pm

I am surprised the NRA and 2nd Amendment lover are not all over this supporting the plant owner who had a usable gun and used it to likely prevent further deaths.
 
PHX787
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:30 pm

Look at what you said:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
If it did, that means that ALL Christian sects believe in turning their backs on gays unless they convert and that ALL Christian sects follow the all gays are filth and slime.

the vast majority do.....and none of them as a group, from what I know have done anything violent against homosexuals in the last 10 or 20 years. If they have, they were charged rightly....or so I hope they were. Timothy McVeigh was executed for what he did in OKC those years ago. His trial, from what I know, was swift.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
This is exactly what I am talking about: because one idiot in Oklahoma sees another idiot in the Middle East, blame the whole system

Because Islam is currently the only religion right now producing these terrorists....

or let me specify....the only terrorists we are currently seeing are Muslims, and crazy, mental "mystics" from Africa.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 27):
I am surprised the NRA and 2nd Amendment lover are not all over this supporting the plant owner who had a usable gun and used it to likely prevent further deaths.

I saw quite a few posts on my right-leaning pages on FB about this.
 
Ken777
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 21):
Some local spinup groups are calling for an DOJ investigation into Nolan's civil rights being violated when the reserve sheriff shot him while beheading the victim and stabbing the second.

Federal prosecutors in Oklahoma are generally pretty reasonable and responsible attorneys and I don't see them spending too much time on this case.

Quoting okie (Reply 21):
So far it appears they are not getting much traction here but we will see if the DOJ intervenes.

DOJ intervention isn't going to happen.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I highly doubt that any of the moderates have any power to control their own anymore.

Moderate Christians have no chance of "controlling" the anti-abortion radical Christians that bomb abortion clinics or murder doctors.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 27):
I am surprised the NRA and 2nd Amendment lover are not all over this supporting the plant owner who had a usable gun and used it to likely prevent further deaths.

I can see the NRA looking for ways to leverage this event with the gun manufacturers funding the advertising that follows.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:05 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...errorist-attack-inevitable-isis-eu

Seems like things in Europe are going as badly as I've feared. I'm sure this same threat is also exists against the US, even if it's not as large in scale.

I wish Europeans would finally wake up and realize that the idea of multicultural Europe doesn't work when you add bunch of uneducated people from very backward cultures into the mix. We need more border control and stricter immigration policy, otherwise we will face ever increasing amount of terrorism against anyone who disagrees with values of conservative Islam.

Oh well, at least I live far away from any likely targets.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:37 pm

Islam has a problem of optics in the United States in as much as it doesn't have a single authoritative figure that can speak for all Muslims like the Pope does for Catholics, and influential regional leaders are complete unknown and get no air time in our media market, otherwise we'd all know that most Muslim leaders have condemned ISIS as a bunch of thugs, thieves, and dictators-in-waiting who are hiding behind their faith but are no more Muslim than the Pope himself.

Quoting giancavia (Reply 17):
Look how quickly Isis recruited an army of cretins

Most of these cretins fight for ISIS because it is the best-paid job they have had in years! A better way to stop fundamentalists would be to let a few choice individuals know in Qatar and Saudi Arabia that the next penny they spend financing such group is their last. Now, it's too late, ISIS is (sadly) well-managed and no longer needs outside financing, but at least we could stop the next group...

The really sad thing is fundamentalism usually is born out of despair and lack of opportunities in places like Iraq. Of course we could blame Nouri al-Maliki...
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting giancavia (Reply 7):
Its never anything to do with Islam even though every single perp in this trend is always a muslim.

Not really, God told a very white Kiwi male to chop the heads off two women with a samurai sword in 2003.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...sword-trial-Gods-orders-questioned

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 15):
Now, to be fair, our Christian loonies haven't taken it to the extreme of the Islamic loonies

May I remind you of George W Bush, not many muslim loonies have the blood of 1 million or so people on their hands, he does.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
not all Christians are Mormon

Which is logical since mormons aren't christian.
 
Fiesta13
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
May I remind you of George W Bush, not many muslim loonies have the blood of 1 million or so people on their hands, he does.

I am no fan of George W, but I do believe there is a bit of a difference in what he did and what bin Laden did. I really do. I think Bush should have been impeached for taking us to war on bogus information. And I believe his VP should have been tossed as well. But I still don't equate the two on the same scale.
 
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seb146
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 33):
I am no fan of George W, but I do believe there is a bit of a difference in what he did and what bin Laden did.

They both used propaganda to get people to kill.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
Because Islam is currently the only religion right now producing these terrorists....

or let me specify....the only terrorists we are currently seeing are Muslims, and crazy, mental "mystics" from Africa

Who are using Islam as a basis for war and killing and terror. As in: "my version of God tells me that you all must do X in order to achieve what my version of God wants and the proof is in this holy book that says Y about it."

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
from what I know have done anything violent against homosexuals in the last 10 or 20 years.

Not beheadings but things like conversion "therapy" and turning us away. Have you seen suicide rates for gays?
 
Fiesta13
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RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):

Not beheadings but things like conversion "therapy" and turning us away. Have you seen suicide rates for gays?

Not to mention you've had so-called "Christians" who want to hold LGBT in Concentration camps;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...carolina-gay-idUSBRE84N1L520120524

And even that it would be OK to stone them, because of course the U.S. follows Old Testament law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...tt-esk-stoning-gays_n_5486678.html
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Beheading In US

Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 24):
SHIA MUSLIM DON'T ADVOCATE THE DE-CAPITATION OF INFIDELS BECAUSE WE'RE INFIDELS TOO.

No, they just blow up buses full of tourists (e.g., Hezbollah).

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
Calling the group in Syria and Iraq "Islamic State" is a misnomer since they are a sect of Islam and do not represent the entire religion.

Not that Fox or MSM will change that. That fear if Islam is what sells.

Islamic State is what they call themselves, not some vast right-wing conspiracy by Fox, but thanks for playing.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
May I remind you of George W Bush, not many muslim loonies have the blood of 1 million or so people on their hands, he does.

Again, for the umpteenth time, Muslims in Iraq blowing themselves up in mosques, marketplaces, schools, police stations, etc. is NOT Bush's fault.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24174
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
Muslims in Iraq blowing themselves up in mosques, marketplaces, schools, police stations, etc. is NOT Bush's fault.

Which did not happen until Bush lied us into invading Iraq.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
they just blow up buses full of tourists (e.g., Hezbollah).

So, Israel invading and building on land promised to another ethnic group is the same as religious nut jobs?

And, yes, every chance MSM/Fox gets to point out how bad Islam is, they will.
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 10203
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RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 31):
Now, it's too late, ISIS is (sadly) well-managed and no longer needs outside financing, but at least we could stop the next group...

Current air strikes on refineries are a good start at impacting the financial position of ISIS and I can see expansion of air attacks as well as other actions. Go after the money and go after the radicals who are recruiting for ISIS, including Imams.

Over time we will be getting more information on leadership targets and funding targets - and can go after both.
 
Fiesta13
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:28 pm

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:12 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):

Again, for the umpteenth time, Muslims in Iraq blowing themselves up in mosques, marketplaces, schools, police stations, etc. is NOT Bush's fault.

In Syria? No. In the West Bank/Gaza? No. In Iraq. Absolutely 100% without a doubt it is the fault of George W. Bush. There was no sectarian violence in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was ruling there. He was a SOB, but like Tito in Yugoslavia, he kept the parties from tearing everyone to shreds in his nation.

This entire conflict is directly tied to an invasion of Iraq under false pretenses by the United States. It was a war started on a lie; it was a war that, for what we know now, was probably going to happen because the Neocons surrounding Bush wanted it as far back as 1991. It can be traced to his decision to invade that nation.
 
AR385
Posts: 6937
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:54 am

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 39):
He was a SOB, but like Tito in Yugoslavia, he kept the parties from tearing everyone to shreds in his nation.

I can agree with your analogy to a certain extent. But, one has to recognize that when Tito died Yugoslavia came apart and we all saw through the 90s how that went. Savagery on a scale that what ISIS is doing today is not really that horrible if you remember what was done in Sarajevo and Srebrenica. And this right smack in the middle of Europe.

Saddam was an SOB but the same was going to happen at some point. And his heirs, Udai and the other were psychopathic SOBs. without a single functioning neuron. Saddam at least was just merely an SOB. But an intelligent SOB. My point is that whenever the stability and nationhood of a country depends on a totalitarian regime led by one person, things are going to go bad when that person disapppears. Wether they die naturally or are deposed.

What Bush did was bad and criminal, but the way Iraq came apart at its seams would have happened anyway, whenever Saddam was gone. As happened in Yugoslavia. In Iraq, It just happened sooner and the US is having to foot the bill.

You see this in Syria. Sure, Assad is another animal, but if he had been able to keep Syria together and crush the civil war when it just started, ISIS would never had come into being. Sometimes you need to support the bad ones if you don´t want the nightmarish ones to show up.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Current air strikes on refineries are a good start at impacting the financial position of ISIS and I can see expansion of air attacks as well as other actions.

I wish they would identify those individuals in Saudi and Qatar that are directly writing blank checks to them and bomb their palaces as well.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:43 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 29):
Moderate Christians have no chance of "controlling" the anti-abortion radical Christians that bomb abortion clinics or murder doctors.

Thats why they get arrested, prosecuted and jailed.
 
Fiesta13
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:28 pm

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
Saddam was an SOB but the same was going to happen at some point.

No doubt, but the U.S. IS directly responsible for how it unfolded, and that cannot be denied. Had Saddam just lived to a rotten older age, we would have sat back and said "Those dumb Arabs, killing each other", and not had any blame for it. But we do, and that cannot be changed.
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 10203
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
I wish they would identify those individuals in Saudi and Qatar that are directly writing blank checks to them and bomb their palaces as well.

My preference is to leave those folks to "wet teams" - let them deliver their own version of terror and see how the terrorists like it,

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 41):
Thats why they get arrested, prosecuted and jailed.

Some of them. Th radical Christians can strike again at any time though these days they prefer to go after women via lapdog state legislators.
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2689
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:49 pm

So pretty much, with a few exceptions like Turkey, Muslim countries need dictators to keep the population in check and to prevent civil wars and violence. What a peaceful religion that is.
 
AR385
Posts: 6937
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 44):
Muslim countries need dictators to keep the population in check and to prevent civil wars and violence. What a peaceful religion that is.

I don´t see it as a problem with the religion. It is a problem with how the region was divided and States invented arbitrarily by the former colonial powers when they left.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Beheading In US

Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 44):
So pretty much, with a few exceptions like Turkey, Muslim countries need dictators to keep the population in check and to prevent civil wars and violence. What a peaceful religion that is.

The Muslim countries you are speaking of were created by the British and their borders were chosen specifically to create unstable entities so that the British could control them easily by playing one side off against the other.

BTW
I don't understand the focus on this guy's religion, murders spun from people getting fired or demoted/transferred are common occurrences in the US. Just in the last few days we had a uniformed (ex)UPS employee murder some of his (ex) co-workers - in Chicago a disgruntled worker burned down the regional ATC center. Both of these guys were Christians, and there are dozens more (christians) just like them that go off every year in the US.
 
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falstaff
Posts: 5744
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RE: Beheading In US

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 46):
I don't understand the focus on this guy's religion, murders spun from people getting fired or demoted/transferred are common occurrences in the US. Just in the last few days we had a uniformed (ex)UPS employee murder some of his (ex) co-workers - in Chicago a disgruntled worker burned down the regional ATC center. Both of these guys were Christians, and there are dozens more (christians) just like them that go off every year in the US.

Because this killing may have been motivated by his religion, which makes it relevant. Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, murder each other over all kids of things that have nothing to do with religion. When somebody murders a person the investigators want to know why. Maybe the guy was mad because he was fired than is why he did what he did. Maybe he killed in the name of Jihad. We don't really know so it is important to see if this guy was motivated by religion. If the guy who burned the ATC center in Chicago was motivated by his religion (do we even know what it is)? Regardless of his motivation we want to know why he did what he did.

The Islamic apologists get on here are and don't like it when people whitewash Islam, but they do the same thing. I can't tell you how many times I have read something about an isolated Christian extremist and people want to paint all of us Christians to be like him.

Are there extremist Christians: you bet there are and some of them have done some nasty things, but at THIS POINT IN TIME there seem to be a lot of Islamic terrorists and they outnumber the other religious extremists.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 39):

In Syria? No. In the West Bank/Gaza? No. In Iraq. Absolutely 100% without a doubt it is the fault of George W. Bush. There was no sectarian violence in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was ruling there

If Saddam was still in power a bunch of lefty human rights people would be complaining about him.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 39):
This entire conflict is directly tied to an invasion of Iraq under false pretenses by the United States. It was a war started on a lie;

I think Saddam started the lie. He used chemical weapons against the Kurds, so the possibility of him using them again was a possibility. Even if Saddam had no chemical weapons he likely wanted his neighbors to think that he did. I think we may have bought into his lie. Bush and his gang may have honestly believed he had the weapons because Saddam wanted everyone to think that.
 
Fiesta13
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:28 pm

RE: Beheading In US

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 47):
If Saddam was still in power a bunch of lefty human rights people would be complaining about him.

Yes, he was a friend at one time or Reagan and Rumsfeld and Cheney, that's true, isn't it? But what's the old saying about the devil you know? He was a bastard, but I think if you ask most people who have Iraqi citizenship what they prefer: what's going on today or Saddam, I think the vote might be quite surprising.

And if for some reason, Falstaff, if you're ever captured abroad and held because you're an American, you may end up thanking those "lefty human rights people" for helping to save your butt. Just food for thought.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 47):
I think Saddam started the lie. He used chemical weapons against the Kurds, so the possibility of him using them again was a possibility.

Saddam wasn't the one sending the U.S. to war, was he, so what he did is irrelevant. The lie sold to Congress and to the American people was done by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, Colin Powell and a host of dozens, and it's one of the most dishonorable acts in the history of the nation. It cost over 5,000 American lives, thousands of Iraqi lives, billions of dollars, and our good name in shambles. So try to deflect to Saddam. The Administration knew it was peddling bullshit, and the President, Vice President should have been impeached over it. Impeachment over something that had a profound effect on the nation, you know, not over such "high crimes" as a blowjob or using the Executive Order option less than any President in history, as Republicans have done in the past, and are threatening to do again.
 
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falstaff
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Beheading In US

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 48):
The Administration knew it was peddling bullshit, and the President, Vice President should have been impeached over it. Impeachment over something that had a profound effect on the nation, you know, not over such "high crimes" as a blowjob or using the Executive Order option less than any President in history, as Republicans have done in the past, and are threatening to do again.

So you know they knew it was BS. Do you work for the state department or the CIA?

Obama is President now, get over Bush and get on with life. You seem to hate Bush, but probably think that people that don't like Obama are some kind of crazy nuts. The hatred for Bush is as strong for some as the hatred of Obama is many of us right wingers.

Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 48):
Falstaff, if you're ever captured abroad and held because you're an American

That isn't what I was talking about.... I recall Saddam was doing all kinds of terrible things to its citizens and humans rights people where up in arms about it. Those people didn't get him to stop. The human rights people bitch about China, but they are still abusing human rights. The human rights people think Detroit should give free water to people, well they aren't getting free water. They can bitch and moan, but they accomplish little against tyrants who don't care.



Quoting Fiesta13 (Reply 48):
He was a bastard, but I think if you ask most people who have Iraqi citizenship what they prefer: what's going on today or Saddam, I think the vote might be quite surprising.

Probably depends on the person. There are plenty of Iraqis who didn't like Saddam.

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