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slider
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:55 pm

It's great that we don't have a travel ban for anyone coming from Ebola-stricken countries.

This dude in Dallas had it figured out--now he gets free medical care, thanks to us dopey taxpayers.

Don't look now--there are a hose of REALLY shitty diseases all crossing our southern border every day and we do nothing about that either. Our government won't protect us. Protect yourself.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:05 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
Also when the patient first wen to the hospital they didn't diagnose the Ebola and instead sent him away (i.e back out into to public) with just some meds ("Take two and call me in the morning", the hospital is understandably slightly defensive about this...). IT was only after he returned even worse that they made the connection and diagnosis. Due to this I do not think another episode will be missed.

To be fair, none of those doctors have ever seen a case of ebola and it's not as if this is something that should have been on their mind. I'm impressed that they made the diagnosis as fast as they did.

That's something that I, as a physician, worry about. We are in the middle of a measles epidemic (and that's a virus that actually SHOULD be cause for concern because it is *highly* transmissible by the respiratory route) and I've never seen a case of measles. Nor have I ever seen polio, rubella, mumps, or diphtheria. I'm not sure I'd recognize a case if I saw any of these.

Some ten years ago my Sierra Leonian ex returned from a trip to Freetown with her children. Her son fell ill after returning to Germany, but the pediatrician only treated for a flu-like virus infect, even though she got told that they had just returned from West Africa. When the son still stayed ill a few days later, we went to hospital with him, where the doctors caried out various tests on tropical diseases. Surely they found something: He had contacted malaria tropica, and was subsequently treated stationarily with anti-Malaria medications.

Jan
 
aircatalonia
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:26 pm

In other news...

A Spanish nurse who treated two victims of Ebola in Madrid has tested positive for the disease, thus becoming the first person in the current outbreak known to have contracted Ebola outside Africa.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920

To add to the article, the woman contracted the disease from the second patient to arrive in Madrid, who died on Sept. 25. She showed the first symptoms on Sept. 30 and she was told by doctors to go back home (since she was on holidays). Today (7 days later) she was finally admitted to hospital where she tested positive for the disease.

It's estimated that she was in contact with 30 people during this period.

[Edited 2014-10-06 14:26:50]

[Edited 2014-10-06 14:27:54]
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 53):
It's great that we don't have a travel ban for anyone coming from Ebola-stricken countries.

This dude in Dallas had it figured out--now he gets free medical care, thanks to us dopey taxpayers.

Don't look now--there are a hose of REALLY shitty diseases all crossing our southern border every day and we do nothing about that either. Our government won't protect us. Protect yourself.

wow...scare much?

Seriously, because someone on a tourist visa got sick, suddenly he is a drain on the taxpayer? Clearly you don't live in a international tourist destination, they show up in hospitals very often sick.

Your second part has nothing to do with Ebola therefore not germane to the conversation.

Please turn off the Fox News/Ultra-Right Radio and turn on your brain (if able).
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ebola In The US

Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 53):
Don't look now--there are a hose of REALLY shitty diseases all crossing our southern border every day and we do nothing about that either. Our government won't protect us. Protect yourself.

Please name those diseases. I'm dying to know.
 
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seb146
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RE: Ebola In The US

Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:09 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 53):
This dude in Dallas had it figured out--now he gets free medical care, thanks to us dopey taxpayers.

yep. I am positive that is the only reason he went to the Ebola ghettos... smh...
 
slider
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RE: Ebola In The US

Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 56):
wow...scare much?

Seriously, because someone on a tourist visa got sick, suddenly he is a drain on the taxpayer? Clearly you don't live in a international tourist destination, they show up in hospitals very often sick.

Your second part has nothing to do with Ebola therefore not germane to the conversation.

Please turn off the Fox News/Ultra-Right Radio and turn on your brain (if able).

So you tell me, who's paying for it? He isn't. That's already been established. And if you are trying to draw a correlation between a tourist that gets sick whilst on vacation and a guy who brings Ebola stateside, you're intellectually disingenuous.

Oh, and I don't watch Fox News at all. But thanks for trying to brand me. Cloward-Piven much? 
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 57):
Please name those diseases. I'm dying to know.

Happy to, Doc. It’s a growing public health concern but one that our benevolent Federal government doesn’t seem too interested in. We’re seeing massive statistically significant surges in diseases that have long been since eradicated from the US. TB is probably the most prominent one in terms of seeing a comeback. Just TODAY, on Drudge there is a link to this. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...roblem-illegal-immigrant-families/

But we’ve got…
Tuberculosis
Scabies
Lice
Chicken pox
Swine flu
Dengue fever
Chagas disease
Measles
MRSA staph
Enterovirus

There is ZERO health screening, zero quarantining going on, and the Feds are knowingly shipping and distributing illegals with infectious diseases throughout the United States. Border towns in TX are already being impacted and have been for some time. Doctors and health officials at the “processing camps” here (such as at Lackland) are facing retribution dare they speak out about it. And the children who are coming don’t have immunization records yet are put in the same schools as mine (meanwhile, I have to produce documentation of home ownership, residency, immunizations, et al) while the illegals skate by aided and abetted by a criminal government that not only allows it, but also encourages it. Disgusting.

It very much IS a public health crisis, one that adds MORE cost burden to a medical system that is already under duress. Now you have ebola, that might be transmitted more readily than once expected. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...estions-20141007-story.html#page=1 There are a lot of unknowns, but there should be public policy based on WORST CASE scenario right now until we have more concrete info. Instead, just as with our border, we’re allowing anyone and everyone in. no questions asked. No medical screenings, no quarantine. Just roam free. And then we’ll pay for it. That’s reprehensible.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...reading-tb-ebola-dengue-swine-flu/
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...-Rules-for-Sick-Illegal-Immigrants
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/20...-diseases-are-appearing-in-the-us/
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...illegal-aliens-diseases-go-to-jail
http://www.abc15.com/news/national/i...ts-bringing-diseases-across-border
http://toprightnews.com/?p=3650
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Ebola In The US

Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:04 pm

Some people, ^, are paranoid. I hope Duncan makes it, he's receiving kidney dialysis now.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:52 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...age=1

From that LA Times article, we learn that virus researcher Charles L. Bailey believes that

Quote:
no one has ever done a study [disproving that] coughing or sneezing is a viable means of transmitting," he said. Unqualified assurances that Ebola is not spread through the air, Bailey said, are "misleading."

Skinner of the CDC, who cited the Peters-led study as the most extensive of Ebola's transmissibility, said that while the evidence "is really overwhelming" that people are most at risk when they touch either those who are sick or such a person's vomit, blood or diarrhea, "we can never say never" about spread through close-range coughing or sneezing.
 
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OA260
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:34 pm

Thomas Duncan has passed away according to CNN and Sky News.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 62):

Sad news.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Tuberculosis

Incidence is low, but hardly brought by foreigners. If not, it would already be widespread.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Scabies

Care to bring up a case caused by introduction by a foreigner?

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Lice

Not a disease, and not something uncommon.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Chicken pox

A disease spread more in nurseries and preschool (I got a case back when I was a kid). Hardly fatal and if a child gets it, it's hardly a surprise, provided they don't have a suppressed immune system.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Swine flu

Spread through air, could have been easily mistaken for the common cold. When it broke out in 2009, there was no way to screen a passenger unless you were to deny boarding to ANYONE with a fever or cough or allergy regardless of what the disease was.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Dengue fever

Tropical disease spread by mosquitoes, not contact with a person.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Chagas disease

A disease caused by a bug.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Measles

The vaccine is available. Whoever gets measles in the states actually wanted to get the disease.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
MRSA staph

Caused by bacteria that grew resistant to antibiotics. Overprescription and misuse of antibiotics to blame.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Enterovirus

First identified back in 1962...long before we had the accessible travel options we do now, and long before an immigration problem.

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
Now you have ebola, that might be transmitted more readily than once expected.

So far, the only way Ebola is spreading is direct contact with a person. Because Ebola was never found in the states, it's logical to assume that hospitals here are not ready to deal with Ebola patients and don't know what the symptoms are until they become apparent.
 
slider
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 60):
Some people, ^, are paranoid.

Has nothing to do with paranoia. It has to do with calculated risk.

Why is it that the anti-vax people are branded as unsafe kooks who are endangering their kids but some of the same loud voices denounce the illegal invasion and the legitimate health issues they pose??

It's not paranoia--paranoia is fear for no reason. This is completely justified. Our Federal government has very few enumerated responsibilities or powers: one of them is to provide for a common defense. That means securing borders and the welfare of the American people from enemies. They're failing. Deliberately.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 64):
Incidence is low, but hardly brought by foreigners. If not, it would already be widespread.

Not if the majority of our people are immunized. Are you trying to be obtuse here?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 64):
Care to bring up a case caused by introduction by a foreigner?

Go read the link. I'm not your researcher. Either debunk my claim or prove otherwise. It's happened plenty of times.
 
D L X
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 53):
This dude in Dallas had it figured out--now he gets free medical care, thanks to us dopey taxpayers.

This dude also got dead.

I think there may be something wrong with your premise.
 
AR385
Posts: 6937
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 59):
But we’ve got…
Tuberculosis
Scabies
Lice
Chicken pox
Swine flu
Dengue fever
Chagas disease
Measles
MRSA staph
Enterovirus

Oh boy. I wonder why the border patrol hasn´t been issued with Haz Mat suits to do their jobs.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 65):
Why is it that the anti-vax people are branded as unsafe kooks who are endangering their kids

Because they are.

Quoting Slider (Reply 65):
but some of the same loud voices denounce the illegal invasion and the legitimate health issues they pose??

Because the solution to being unvaccinated is to pull you head out of your ass and get vaccinated. The solution to this "illegal invasion" you're so terrified of is far less straightforward, since you're not willing to spend the $$$ needed to prevent illegal immigration before it occurs.

Of course this narrative is one that has been around forever, starting with the lynching of Jews after outbreaks of plague in Europe. Blame the outsider, and it's a good excuse to get rid of them. It makes no more sense now than it did then.

The story is usually the same as the one the conservative media have chosen this week, namely: these people are dirty. They don't wash, don't understand hygiene, can't use a toilet etc. Honestly, do you genuinely believe that's the case? Have you any idea how absurd that sounds?

Isn't it more probably that the conditions we are housing the immigrants in- the detention centers etc- are overcrowded and underfunded, and disease outbreaks are inevitable as a result?

If you want to stop this, start by calling for better conditions in the detention centers and give up your impotent quest for "securing the borders". It will never, ever happen. Ever.

Quoting Slider (Reply 65):
Not if the majority of our people are immunized. Are you trying to be obtuse here?

Most people in the USA aren't immunized against TB. More than 90% of people in Central America are. In fact the vaccination rate at birth in Mexico is 99%. You are a FAR, FAR greater danger to them than they are to you. Ditto measles- an American is less likely to be vaccinated than a Central American, and MUCH less likely to be vaccinated than a Mexican,

Quoting D L X (Reply 66):
This dude also got dead.

I think there may be something wrong with your premise.

If it weren't so tragic the absurdity of it would be hilarious.
 
AR385
Posts: 6937
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Most people in the USA aren't immunized against TB. More than 90% of people in Central America are. In fact the vaccination rate at birth in Mexico is 99%. You are a FAR, FAR greater danger to them than they are to you. Ditto measles- an American is less likely to be vaccinated than a Central American, and MUCH less likely to be vaccinated than a Mexican,

I´d like to add to this that by law, in Mexico, all children have to be vaccinated. And all vaccines are free. We don´t have this hippy parents who babble against "big pharma" and have the choice of not vaccinating their children. We don´t have children dying of encephalitic measles. Parents have NO CHOICE in the matter. Maybe in some very backwards, rural areas, of which there are less and less, and the Health Ministry reaches even most of those too, some children may not get vaccinated but as correctly stated, our vaccination program is one of the most solid in the world.

Every single school in Mexico is required to ask the parent for their child´s vaccination card, which is a government document that lists all the vaccines the child has received, and is given by whomever immunized them. No card, no admittance to school. And then the parent is going to have to explain to authorities why the child has no card.

"Todos los niños, todas las vacunas" is the current slogan.

I do not know how it works in Central America.

[Edited 2014-10-08 13:30:04]
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:39 pm

There's a possible second case in a Dallas suburb of an individual who had contact with the deceased patient zero. HuffPo and NBC DFW reporting.
 
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OA260
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 67):
There's a possible second case in a Dallas suburb of an individual who had contact with the deceased patient zero. HuffPo and NBC DFW reporting.

Yes the Police officer that went in initially un protected to the dead Mans apartment. According to Sky News.
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):


As "The Onion" Reported (and it's amazing how often they are a better news source than the MSM), Ebola is "50 White People Away From a Vaccine." If/when Americans start getting infected, the vaccine will be made. As long as it's poor Black people in Africa, the drug companies have absolutely no reason to spend all that money on approval and manufacture.

Absolute rubbish.

They've been after a solution for decades. The problem is it's rare, unpredictable, and unlike many viruses it doesn't grow in a Petri dishes where it can be mass dublicated and tested. Moreover one vaccine can be completely useless against a strain. It's totally unpredictable and it such a badass virus that it's treated like a biological warfare agent by the military.

Maybe people should stop eating bushmeat, best defense available hands down.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:15 am

First, all visuses need a living organism to procreate and to live in. For many virii researchers use chicken embryos, but for some they need special cell cultures of a certain species or tissue.
Then, the last thing the military want as a bio weapon is some completely unpredictable disease. One reason why bio weapons never became popular is that, once released, they might infact one's own troops and civ pop as well.
The reason why the US military do alot of research on Ebola and related virii is that terrorists might use these diseases, but terrorists, especially those of a religious persuation, have an attitude to kill everybody in sight and then let whatever invisible sky pixie they believe in to sort the victims into good or bad.

Jan
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 56):
But we’ve got…
Tuberculosis

Given that all babies born in Mexico and points south get BCG, few are actually carrying transmissible disease

Quote:
Scabies
Lice

Hardly major public health problems, easily treatable and endemic to the US

Quote:

Chicken pox
Swine flu

There are vaccines for these freely available in the US.

Quote:

Dengue fever
Chagas disease

Dengue is rare in Mexico, it's more of a SE Asia thing. I'm not aware of any outbreaks of either associated with immigrants across the Mexican border. Both are insect-borne, not human-borne.

Quote:
Measles

We have a vaccine

Quote:
MRSA staph

That's endemic to the US, not a Mexico thing

Quote:

Enterovirus

The latest outbreak of that originated in the Midwest.

So I accuse you of xenophobia.
 
Caryjack
Posts: 423
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:29 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 12):
Remember, these are politicians who complained how "more troops were sent to fight Ebola rather than ISIS"

Your proof is mykeystrokes.com?? According to the US president there are no US troops fighting ISIS but he did send US troops to fight Ebola.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Because the solution to being unvaccinated is to pull you head out of your ass and get vaccinated.

I gave up on vaccinations after Jimmy Carter pushed the swine flu shots....More people were stricken by the shots then the actual bug.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Blame the outsider, and it's a good excuse to get rid of them.

The "outsiders" are in Africa. Nobody wants to get rid of them, they should just stay where they are until they are not infected.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
these people are dirty

Many of these people live in grass huts with dirt floors.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
They don't wash

Many of these people struggle to get water to cook and drink. Few shower.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
don't understand hygiene

No. Tribal customs and superstitions trump modern science and medical procedures.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
can't use a toilet

Many have never seen a toilet.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Honestly, do you genuinely believe that's the case?

It should be obvious to any one paying attention

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Have you any idea how absurd that sounds?

Your post? Yes I do.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
give up your impotent quest for "securing the borders". It will never, ever happen. Ever.

I don't know what this means. Are you saying that the US in not in charge if its own borders?

Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
Quoting Slider (Reply 53):
This dude in Dallas had it figured out--now he gets free medical care, thanks to us dopey taxpayers.
This dude also got dead.
I think there may be something wrong with your premise.

I don't. I think he knew he had the disease and his best hope was in Dallas. If you were in his place, where would you go if you could?

Quoting AR385 (Reply 66):
Parents have NO CHOICE in the matter.

It's different in the US. Here parents have nearly complete control over their children's health care, nutrition, schooling, clubs, volunteer groups,, etc. There are certainly minimum standards but parents have broad latitude (private schools, new age health care, etc) for compliance.
Thanks,  
Cary
 
AR385
Posts: 6937
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:53 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
It's different in the US. Here parents have nearly complete control over their children's health care, nutrition, schooling, clubs, volunteer groups,, etc. There are certainly minimum standards but parents have broad latitude (private schools, new age health care, etc) for compliance.

Yes. I understand. Here it is nearly the same. It is only on the vaccination part were parents don´t have a say. The State considers its duty to vaccine every child. Other than that, mostly everything is up to the parents. Except for sex ed and distribution of contraceptives.

One may argue the State is intervening in the privacy of the family and parental rights. It´s a valid debate. However, in my opinion, I preferr it that way.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:57 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 71):

Doc, your posts on FB about these diseases has enlightened me quite a bit.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 71):
So I accuse you of xenophobia.

I wouldn't say xenophobia... i would just say sheer ignorance.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:51 pm

Interesting Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital is located right next to Preston Hollow the Dallas neighbourhood where former President George W Bush and Laura have a home.

Hope they aren't in any danger.....

[Edited 2014-10-09 06:55:20]
 
slider
Posts: 7760
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 71):
So I accuse you of xenophobia.

Nice. Thanks.

I'm a global traveler. I've been to all but one continent, nearly 50 countries, speak 3 languages and love all that travel brings.

But I'm an American first. We should protect our borders, keep our citizens safe from basic harm from diseases that are brought in unchecked.

That makes me a xenophobe. You're crazy.
 
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zckls04
Posts: 2785
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:42 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
I gave up on vaccinations after Jimmy Carter pushed the swine flu shots...

This level of critical thinking may explain why you've managed to completely miss what it is we're discussing.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
The "outsiders" are in Africa. Nobody wants to get rid of them, they should just stay where they are until they are not infected.

No they aren't. They're in Central America. Did you read any of the links Slider posted?

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
Many of these people live in grass huts with dirt floors.
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
Many of these people struggle to get water to cook and drink. Few shower.
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
No. Tribal customs and superstitions trump modern science and medical procedures.
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
Many have never seen a toilet.

We're talking about illegal immigrants coming from south of the US border. How many Mexicans do you know who fit the profile you've described above?

Africans have nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. This is a tangent relating to a news story posted by Slider.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
It should be obvious to any one paying attention
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
Your post? Yes I do.

Probably smart to read the discussion before getting snarky, wouldn't you say?

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
I don't know what this means. Are you saying that the US in not in charge if its own borders?

I'm saying what you and I both know- that the US does not have the will or the desire to fully secure its borders. Never has, and never will, at least not in our lifetimes.
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22289
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 76):

But I'm an American first. We should protect our borders, keep our citizens safe from basic harm from diseases that are brought in unchecked.

That makes me a xenophobe. You're crazy.

When you start accusing immigrants of bringing in diseases that they aren't bringing in or of bringing in diseases that are a non-issue, then I would argue that I am not making a baseless accusation.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 12):Remember, these are politicians who complained how "more troops were sent to fight Ebola rather than ISIS"
Your proof is mykeystrokes.com?? According to the US president there are no US troops fighting ISIS but he did send US troops to fight Ebola.

I can't tell if you're supporting my statement or were attempting to ridicule it. But since it's vague, I'll clarify:

mykestrokes.com

Essentially, more resources have been placed to fight ISIS than Ebola, but your fellow conservative will complain about how more emphasis is being placed on ISIS and not Ebola, even though they were begging for action.
 
lxa333
Posts: 278
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RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:06 pm

In an unrelated noted, my parents are back in Macedonia, the motherland on vacay! Of all places- possible Ebola case in Macedonia!!!!! Thank you to the brits for the greatest things in the world SMH. What are brits doing in Maceedonia anyways! Not much to see there!
 
Caryjack
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 9:45 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 77):
Did you read any of the links Slider posted?

I checked the pages but saw nothing specific to ebola.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 77):
This is a tangent relating to a news story posted by Slider.

The thread topic is ebola.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 77):
Probably smart to read the discussion before getting snarky, wouldn't you say?

Always....But my post was related to the thread subject, yours was not.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 77):
I'm saying what you and I both know- that the US does not have the will or the desire to fully secure its borders. Never has, and never will, at least not in our lifetimes.

I agree. Nothing will change until the current political climate changes.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 79):
I can't tell if you're supporting my statement or were attempting to ridicule it. But since it's vague, I'll clarify:

mykestrokes.com

Essentially, more resources have been placed to fight ISIS than Ebola, but your fellow conservative will complain about how more emphasis is being placed on ISIS and not Ebola, even though they were begging for action.

Thanks for the clarification. More troops are being used against ebola but there certainly more resources being used against ISIS.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 82):
The thread topic is ebola.

Threads go off on tangents. This tangent is pretty closely related to the subject at hand.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 82):
Always....But my post was related to the thread subject, yours was not.

Then don't reply to me. Slider made a point, I was answering it. If you want to talk about post 1, then reply to post 1.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 82):
I agree. Nothing will change until the current political climate changes.

More completely- nothing will change ever. Securing the border is too expensive and Americans will never be willing to spend the money to do so, no matter how far to the right the government.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Ebola In The US

Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:53 pm

Looks like one of the nurses who treated Thomas Duncan has most likely contracted ebola:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola/index.html

Quote:
A female nurse at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas has tested positive for Ebola after a preliminary test, officials said.

Confirmatory testing will be conducted Sunday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Test results are expected to be announced later in the day.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 84):
Quote:A female nurse at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas has tested positive for Ebola after a preliminary test, officials said.

Confirmatory testing will be conducted Sunday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Test results are expected to be announced later in the day.

The nurse, while treating Mr. Duncan, was wearing full protective gear.

The nurse's dog is also being monitored.

Will the US "put down" the dog like Spain did regarding their nurse that got infected???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-worker-tests-positive-Ebola.html

A second person who had close contact with the burse has been put into proactive isolation.

The Texas Hospital has ---stopped--- receiving emergency patients.

---All--- of those who treated Duncan are now considered potentially exposed due to ---- a breach or protocol in removing their protective gear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Professional Hospital staff at US hospitals can usually follow *most* of the protocols that are in place.
Just like professional airline pilots and crew usually follow *most* of the protocols in place.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 85):
Will the US "put down" the dog like Spain did regarding their nurse that got infected???

I'm expecting the nurse's dog will receive a humane anesthetization if her infection is confirmed by the CDC. After all, Mr. Duncan's apartment was basically stripped down to the studs, with its contents burned in a show of "abundance of caution" and a public display of the authorities being on top of the situation (according to an analysis of the situation I heard on the radio yesterday).
 
AR385
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RE: Ebola In The US

Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:17 pm

Killing the dog will not be smart, in my opinion. Since Ebola is a zoonotic virus, it´s very important to understand the mechanisms it uses to jump species, particularly to the human species. This dog, if infected, would be a good candidate to study that.
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2763
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:02 pm

Nurses Union Threatens to 'Picket Every Hospital in This Country' over Ebola Hazmat Suits

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...-in-this-Country-Over-Hazmat-Suits

The nation's largest union and professional association of nurses said it will rise up in protest if hazardous-material suits are not in every hospital soon.

"I'm angry about this," said RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of National Nurses United. "We want the first line of defense to be the most prepared. Our hospitals are resisting us. The CDC doesn't say that we need hazmat suits. If this doesn't change dramatically, we will picket every hospital in this country if we have to."
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:42 pm

It might prove necessary that 'best practice' is to be in a fully-contained biohazard suit and not just gloves, apron, mask, goggles. Another issue is that CDC's guidelines are not as strict as the WHO's guidelines in dealing with ebola patients.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Ebola In The US

Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 89):

The process definitely needs to be better. The Spanish nurse and the Texas nurse both got it while caring for people with Ebola. So far, and let's hope this sticks, they are the only ones to get it. I have no doubt due to the care they were probably providing, they had a bit more propensity for contamination. However with better procedures hopefully this won't happen again.



On the plus side, it appears another vaccine is going into trials in the US.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014...art_clinical_trials_in_humans.html
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:59 am

The LA Times reports that a national conference call with reporters was held Wednesday, Oct. 15th, where a statement outlining a litany of damning assertions was read by Deborah Burger, co-president of National Nurses United, regarding Thomas Duncan's second trip to the Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, when he arrived by ambulance.

None of the nurses from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital spoke or was identified to reporters, so they could air complaints anonymously and without fear of losing their jobs.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...-dallas-20141014-story.html#page=1

All of the nurses that contributed to the statement worked at Texas Health Presbyterian and had been involved in Duncan's care or had direct knowledge of what had occurred after he arrived by ambulance Sept. 28.

The nurses' statement alleged that when Duncan was brought to Texas Health Presbyterian by ambulance with Ebola-like symptoms, he was “left for several hours, not in isolation, in an area” where up to seven other patients were. “Subsequently, a nurse supervisor arrived and demanded that he be moved to an isolation unit, yet faced stiff resistance from other hospital authorities,” they alleged.

Duncan's lab samples were sent through the usual hospital tube system “without being specifically sealed and hand-delivered. The result is that the entire tube system … was potentially contaminated,” they said.

The statement described a hospital with no clear rules on how to handle Ebola patients, despite months of alerts from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta about the possibility of Ebola coming to the United States.

Nurses were essentially left to figure things out on their own as they dealt with “copious amounts” of highly contagious bodily fluids from the dying Duncan while they wore gloves with no wrist tape, flimsy gowns that did not cover their necks, and no surgical booties, the statement alleged
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 89):
It might prove necessary that 'best practice' is to be in a fully-contained biohazard suit and not just gloves, apron, mask, goggles. Another issue is that CDC's guidelines are not as strict as the WHO's guidelines in dealing with ebola patients.

Did you ever wear one of these NBC suits, especially in hot weather? You'll turning into your own sauna within less than 15 minutes and hard physical work is almost impossible for more than an hour or so. You also need a second person to help you to get it on and off (this other person needs to be protected as well. From what I understand both Ebola cases in Spain and the US happened when the nurses were removing their equipment. In the case of the Spanish nurse, according to a witness she accidentally touched her face while still wearing gloves (subconscious movement e.g. to brush her hair out of her face?).
The advantage of a full NBC suit is that one can be completely doused in desinfectant (the German military and civil defence use chlorinated lime because it kills most bacteria and deactivates viruses, and at the same time also oxidises and destroys chemical agents, but it is very aggressive)
I have been wearing one of these and it is no fun to carry out any physical activity while wearing it.
http://www.nachhim.himgorodok.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/DSC_0001s.jpg
This suit is used by NBC decontamination units of both the German military and the civil defence.
Normal soldiers and civil defence workers get the socalled "Overgarment", a suit made from impregnated fabric with an inner layer of activated charcoal. It is a lot lighter and allows for some breathing, but it is not as protective. It has been basically designed for one time use (though it can be decontaminated using hot gases wih special equipment).

This is the civil defence version in orange. The military version comes in olive drab and camouglage colours.
They are not cheap either I have heard that one set costs about € 400.

I have some old East German army NBC suits, which I use for dirty and wet work, e.g. I wash the bottom of my Landrover every spring with a power washer to get rid of the road salt residues. I simply dress up in the NBC suit (like a boiler suit with a hood and attached rubber Wellington boots) and mask and use a crawling board to get beneath the car. I'll still be completely dry when I'm done with the job.

Jan
 
slider
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:15 pm

Oops- I forgot this one.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/1...positive-for-tb-at-texas-hospital/

TB alive in well in Texas. Strange coincidence huh? All these diseases aren't occurring in Canadian border states.

Yet the sky is falling because of ebola....
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 95):
All these diseases aren't occurring in Canadian border states
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/01/1..._tb_test_after_possible_exposure_/

Dr. Stephen Sears, the state epidemiologist, said Maine sees about 16 cases of active tuberculosis a year, and this is not the first case of 2014. He emphasized that only people with active tuberculosis – those who are coughing and ill – can spread the disease. Others might contract latent tuberculosis from someone with an active case, but can spread the disease to others only if it develops into active tuberculosis.


http://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/cdcs/tb/documents/tbcounty.pdf

But rather than nit and pick with links from *every* Canadian border state, let's rely on the CDC. Per the CDC, the incidence in 2013 of TB in each state that shares a land border with Canada:

AK - 71
WA - 210
ID - 11
MT - 6
ND - 12
MN - 151
MI - 141
NY - 872
VT - 5
NH - 15
ME - 15

In fact, tuberculosis was "alive and well" in every state in the US last year except one - Wyoming.
 
D L X
Posts: 12730
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RE: Ebola In The US

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 72):
I don't. I think he knew he had the disease and his best hope was in Dallas. If you were in his place, where would you go if you could?

That has nothing to do with Slider's argument that a freeloader would contract ebola to get free healthcare.
 
slider
Posts: 7760
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Ebola In The US

Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 95):
In fact, tuberculosis was "alive and well" in every state in the US last year except one - Wyoming.

All the more reason to then take reasonable measures to secure borders--to not make a problem worse and exacerbate the stress, costs and resources of our medical system, wouldn't you think?
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22289
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RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:09 am

To bring the conversation back to Ebola, a number of GOP politicians are calling for travel bans from West Africa.

Now, first of all, in any crisis of this sort right before an election the party in power has a political need to demonstrate leadership and the party not in power has a political need to show a lack of leadership on the part of the party in power. So politics are relevant here.

But it's not a good idea. Banning travel from Africa sounds like a common-sense and reasonable approach at first until you stop to think about the logistics. It's shockingly easy to carefully take the relevant page out of your passport. Yes, a page number will be missing, but how likely is an immigration agent to notice that? It's too easy to hide the fact that you were in Africa. And with that, it makes it harder to track people who might have been there because now they will be actively trying to hide that fact.

So at present a travel ban is doomed to make the problem worse, not better.

A more effective solution might seem to be to stop all travel in and out of the US to any other country, but that would be very extreme, damaging, and difficult to implement along our two borders. Even if we start building a "Great Wall" across the borders, we can't have them built in a timescale relevant to an ebola outbreak.

Ultimately, we need a vaccine. And we need it fast. A Canadian vaccine just started human trials today and it has so far been shown to be highly effective and safe in animals. However, the current trial is only phase I, which is to assess for safety in humans, not efficacy. Typically, the development of a vaccine takes 5-10 years, but even with every regulatory measure taken off, science takes time. Phase III clinical trials in Africa are at least a year away.

I very much hope that when the vaccine does come to the rescue the politicians take some serious note and make sure that they do restore adequate funding to the NIH. There are other serious diseases like Marburg virus and even Dengue that have the potential to lead to epidemics and, as we've seen, just because they happen "over there" doesn't mean that they can't have some serious repercussions here.

I'll also add that for now, we need to handle healthcare workers who come into contact with ebola patients better. ANY sign of illness in such a worker should be considered ebola until proven otherwise. It will be very inconvenient for those workers, but we can't have another Frontier Airlines event.

[Edited 2014-10-16 18:11:22]
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8740
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RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 94):
TB alive in well in Texas. Strange coincidence huh?

Two things we need to do:
1. Texas needs to do something about its uninsured citizens
2. Let's seal the state lines with Texas so that TB doesn't jump to other states.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14425
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 100):
But it's not a good idea. Banning travel from Africa sounds like a common-sense and reasonable approach at first until you stop to think about the logistics. It's shockingly easy to carefully take the relevant page out of your passport. Yes, a page number will be missing, but how likely is an immigration agent to notice that? It's too easy to hide the fact that you were in Africa. And with that, it makes it harder to track people who might have been there because now they will be actively trying to hide that fact.

True, and the fact of the matter is that you have to get a buy in from all countries, and account for the fact that someone may have made a run from another border without being checked.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 100):
Ultimately, we need a vaccine. And we need it fast. A Canadian vaccine just started human trials today and it has so far been shown to be highly effective and safe in animals. However, the current trial is only phase I, which is to assess for safety in humans, not efficacy. Typically, the development of a vaccine takes 5-10 years, but even with every regulatory measure taken off, science takes time. Phase III clinical trials in Africa are at least a year away

So this is where I have to wonder. Do we have that time to wait ? Currently the numbers are low, but let's assume this virus starts does not come under containment and continues it's exponential distribution. With a >50% death rate from this bad boy, at which point do you have to take a rather big gamble with the vaccine? It is one of those cases of , maybe a
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22289
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Ebola In The US

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:24 am

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 102):
So this is where I have to wonder. Do we have that time to wait ? Currently the numbers are low, but let's assume this virus starts does not come under containment and continues it's exponential distribution. With a >50% death rate from this bad boy, at which point do you have to take a rather big gamble with the vaccine? It is one of those cases of , maybe a

That's exactly what's being done. Caution is being thrown to the wind on this. It probably won't be approved for civilian use in the US (restricted to healthcare workers and first responders, most likely). It also appears that it is effective as post-exposure prophylaxis. But in Africa, I can see it being fast-tracked into wide use without the sort of safety studies we'd normally do.

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