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tommy767
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Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:46 pm

Both were groundbreaking for NBC and were proven cash cows for the network. Both seemed to mature and got funnier as time and seasons went on.

Seinfeld had a better ceiling for laugh out loud comedy, but Cheers had more emotional and topical episodes. In the end Cheers had better character development than Seinfeld.

While Cheers had good guest stars, Seinfeld had even better guest stars and were deemed funny through the script itself.

Cheers had more main characters, Seinfeld had more stable and funnier supporting characters.

Cheers had about another season or two before it became old and dry. It probably could have gone on until 1995. Seinfeld stopped at it's absolute peak. It definitely could have easily continued through 2002-2003.

Cheers final episode was one of the best in TV history. Seinfeld was one of the worst, IMHO.


My brain tells me "Seinfeld" but my heart goes with "Cheers." These are my thoughts. What do you think?
 
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casinterest
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:01 pm

Cheers was better in my opinion due to it's heart. Seinfeld's many jokes were based on the lack of heart.


However they were both great.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:19 pm

I find Seinfeld to be funnier. But then again, I grew up with Seinfeld. It's my all-time favorite sitcom (possibly my favorite TV show).

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
In the end Cheers had better character development than Seinfeld.

Well, keep in mind, one of the underlying things about Seinfeld was that the characters didn't really develop - they were just as childish/whatever in the last episode as they were in the first episode.

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Seinfeld stopped at it's absolute peak.

I'd have to disagree there. I think it was starting to slide in the last season.
 
desertjets
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:21 pm

I don't think I can say one is objectively, hell even subjectively, better than the other. They are so different as shows that a comparison is hard. Seinfeld, being a show about nothing, is kind of the anti-thesis of Cheers. In Seinfeld the main characters are to varying degrees kind of loathsome people -- selfish, narcissistic, somewhat stupid. At least on Cheers, in as much as you'd see in a sit-com of that era, there is character growth and on going story arcs.

Both shows were impactful on the larger scene of TV sit-coms. So both have a pretty solid legacy in that regards as well. The one bonus for Cheers is that it had a very successful and original spin-off in Frasier.
 
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:07 pm

I liked Cheers better, especially when Shelley Long was on the show.

I liked all the characters on Cheers, but I don't really like George all that much on Seinfeld. I still identify with cheers characters because I like to hang out in bars and every neighborhood bar has great bunch of regulars.
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:56 pm

Tough call - both great in their own right.

I must admit my fondness for Cheers started because I had an adolescent crush on Shelley Long way back when she did a local TV magazine show in Chicago. So when I saw she made it to network TV a few years later I had to tune in and I got hooked on the story and the characters - great writing team, great actors, all around winner of a show

Seinfeld was a completely different animal but talk about tremendous writing! Larry David is a comic genius. The acting wasn't as good a Cheers, especially early on, but the groundbreaking subject matter and how they pulled it off more than made up for it. The lines and phrases that have made their way into today's culture could fill a book - not that there's anything wrong with that.

One thing I will add - a tip of the hat to NBC for giving both of these shows time to find an audience. Neither was a ratings blockbuster when they started out. You don't see networks do this often anymore
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 5):
not that there's anything wrong with that.

A coworker who's a big Seinfeld fan literally just said that to me.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 5):
Larry David is a comic genius.

   One only need watch an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" to realize how influential Larry David was on Seinfeld.
 
IADCA
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:47 pm

To each their own, but I found them both catastrophically unfunny classics of the American laugh-track comedy genre.
 
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:10 pm

Personally Seinfeld's neurosis put me off, and I also found Cheers to be a bit too banal for me. I preferred Taxi to both of them, at least before they went all-in on Andy Kaufman.
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Cheers had about another season or two before it became old and dry.

Not so sure - I think it jumped the shark with the whole Sam and Rebecca trying to have a baby story arc. And the Robin Colcord character and Rebecca's romance/obsession with him was pretty lame.
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 5):
One thing I will add - a tip of the hat to NBC for giving both of these shows time to find an audience. Neither was a ratings blockbuster when they started out. You don't see networks do this often anymore

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Top-Rock-Inside-Rise-Fall/dp/0307739767

It's the whole reason why I started the thread -- my internet was out this week and I finished the book in 3 days. Warren Littlefield tells how it was working on Cheers and Seinfeld. He did mention that it took a while for both shows to mature but Cheers was a hit after an abyssmal season 1 and Seinfeld wasn't. It took Seinfeld even longer since inital testing was so poor but finally they got there and it just blew up and took control.

A very fascinating book. Goes on about how Don Ohlmeyer was the worst person ever to work with (Don was the exec from NBC who canned Norm MacDonald from SNL.)
 
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seb146
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:22 am

I didn't watch each very often but I always thought Cheers was better because they expanded on the characters and their families. Every character could be someone we all know. Seinfeld felt more like a TV show; like we were just watching actors. Seinfeld did have clever writing but Cheers was more endearing to me.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:58 am

I tried to watch Seinfeld a few times, I could not tolerate the constant whining. I guess that means I liked Cheers better.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:31 am

I always preferred Seinfeld. Stories seemed to have more variety and I liked the characters betters. I got bored with Cheers after a while.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:28 am

For the Cheers fans, which cast did you like better? The cast that included Shelly Long and Nicholas Colasanto (Coach)? Or the cast that included Kirstie Alley, Woody Harrelson, and Bebe Neuwirth (Lilith)? For me it's the later cast, I started watching cheers just as Shelly Long was about to leave so Cheers with the second cast is better for me.
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:48 am

Dragons wings-- later cheers for sure. Things only got more interesting when they introduced Frasier and Woody. Diane was stale compared to the San Diego daddy's girl that Rebecca was. Frasier's character evolved so much through the series that it was the only cast member up for a sequel (a sitcom was aimed for Norm and Cliff but they couldn't make it work).
 
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting IADCA (Reply 7):
I found them both catastrophically unfunny classics of the American laugh-track comedy genre.

I didn't find it catastophically unfunny, I just didn't enjoy watching them week on week. I didn't find the characters likeable or engaging. However the interesting thing is perhaps I prefer Frasier as a series to both.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 14):
The cast that included Shelly Long and Nicholas Colasanto (Coach)?

"Hey, let's burn 'em in effigy" Coach: "hey better yet, let's do it here in Boston!"

"Hey Mr. Peterson what's shaking?" Norm: "Four cheeks and couple of chins"
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 17):
"Hey Mr. Peterson what's shaking?" Norm: "Four cheeks and couple of chins"

that's my favorite Norm line of all time
2nd is:
"What are you up to Norm?"
"My ideal wight if I was 11 feet tall."
 
ltbewr
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:07 am

Each were good in their own ways for their times. Both had great ensemble casts, good writing and good settings.
Cheers key problem was the changing attitudes towards heavy alcohol drinking as the main characters did. Seinfeld didn't ever, as far as I recall, ever show any alcohol consumption of the characters.
Cheers cast changed a bit but at least 4 central characters were for the whole run, some of the changes were from the actors dying in real life (Coach) and Shelly Long trying for movies. Bringing in Frazier and his soon wife was a great move to show a bar with a mixed cliental, although Rebecca's character not so much a good move.
Seinfeld never really lost any main characters. There was one episode that did go wrong and you will never see again unedited - the one where they got stuck in a parade (the Puerto Rican day one). Don't think there were any such problems with Cheers.
One problem both shows had was almost no other than white European main or even 'guest' characters. Seinfeld did have the Black lawyer character in a somewhat weird way, but in NY you were bound to have other than white people in your building and neighborhood. As to Cheers, well Boston was and still is a very segregated place so a bar with a mixed race cliental was not normal.
 
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:28 am

I'm kinda young for both, but when I went into a bar for the first time during the day/for a happy hour, I kinda expected it to be like "Cheers," and was slightly disappointed. I was also surprised that on shows like "Cheers" you could actually talk in a bar, when in reality it's usually too loud.

Seinfeld...except for one episode, I could never get into. The Bet. That is all.

Marc
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:37 am

Cheers - if for no other reason, this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU&list=PLEA771F690CFCF65C
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 19):
Seinfeld didn't ever, as far as I recall, ever show any alcohol consumption of the characters.

there was definitely drinking on occasion - the episode where they went to India for a wedding is one example. Elaine was pounding schnapps and was quite drunk. There were a couple times George and Jerry shared a beer in Jerry's apartment and of course the episode where George puts a mickey in his boss' drink at a bar.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:36 am

You know what I always wondered about Cheers, what did they drink? Was it alcohol free beer? Or something that just looked like beer?
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 19):

Each were good in their own ways for their times. Both had great ensemble casts, good writing and good settings.
Cheers key problem was the changing attitudes towards heavy alcohol drinking as the main characters did. Seinfeld didn't ever, as far as I recall, ever show any alcohol consumption of the characters.

Your post is filled with nerosis. Rarely would any of the characters on Cheers be blackout drunk, and the changes in personality had to do with evolution of the characters in the show -- not alcohol.
 
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:54 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 9):

Not so sure - I think it jumped the shark with the whole Sam and Rebecca trying to have a baby story arc. And the Robin Colcord character and Rebecca's romance/obsession with him was pretty lame.

Cheers was a great show but after Coach died and then Diane left, just was not the same for me.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 19):
Cheers key problem was the changing attitudes towards heavy alcohol drinking as the main characters did. Seinfeld didn't ever, as far as I recall, ever show any alcohol consumption of the characters.

Oh they did. There was the episode with Kramer drinking Hennigan's whiskey but you did not smell, Elaine drinking schnapps at her friends wedding in India and I know there were other episodes with drinking.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):

Seinfeld...except for one episode, I could never get into. The Bet. That is all.

Really and are you the master of your domain?

Quoting ER757 (Reply 22):
Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 23):

You know what I always wondered about Cheers, what did they drink? Was it alcohol free beer? Or something that just looked like beer?

It was near beer which was revealed on the anniversary show where they had the producers and actors answering questions from a reporter a few years after the show ended.
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 25):
Cheers was a great show but after Coach died and then Diane left, just was not the same for me.

Disagree. I just watched some season 8 on Netflix last night (1988-1989) and they were hilarious. Basically shifted a lot of the action to Frasier, Sam, Woody, and Rebecca. The Frasier episodes were among the best, IMHO.

Cheers was just more basic and very '70s sitcom-ey formulaic with Coach and Diane (remember the writers came from Taxi.) It got modernized and in a way a fresh start with Woody and Rebecca.
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 25):
Cheers was a great show but after Coach died and then Diane left, just was not the same for me.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):
Disagree. I just watched some season 8 on Netflix last night (1988-1989) and they were hilarious. Basically shifted a lot of the action to Frasier, Sam, Woody, and Rebecca. The Frasier episodes were among the best, IMHO.

I've had way more laughs from the Woody Boyd era. I don't understand why Coach was such a great character. It's sad that the actor died so soon into the show, but I just don't get what made his character so memorable. And I find Shelley Long's voice to be nauseating and grating, so I never fell in love with Diane. Granted, Kirstie Alley isn't that great herself, but Woody is way better than the other three combined. Plus, I think Woody made Cliff and Norm better characters with the way they interacted. Bottom line, I don't understand the love for Coach, I really don't.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 27):
Quoting brilondon (Reply 25):
Cheers was a great show but after Coach died and then Diane left, just was not the same for me.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):
Disagree. I just watched some season 8 on Netflix last night (1988-1989) and they were hilarious. Basically shifted a lot of the action to Frasier, Sam, Woody, and Rebecca. The Frasier episodes were among the best, IMHO.

I've had way more laughs from the Woody Boyd era. I don't understand why Coach was such a great character. It's sad that the actor died so soon into the show, but I just don't get what made his character so memorable. And I find Shelley Long's voice to be nauseating and grating, so I never fell in love with Diane. Granted, Kirstie Alley isn't that great herself, but Woody is way better than the other three combined. Plus, I think Woody made Cliff and Norm better characters with the way they interacted.

Observation: assuming that everyone's age profiles are true & current; it seems that those that like the Coach & Diane era were actually old enough to watch the episodes when they first aired on NBC.

In comparison, those that like the Woody & Rebecca years better weren't old enough to see how the show originally progressed. Cheers reruns started airing just when the 6th season (the first w/Rebecca) was starting on NBC.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 27):
Bottom line, I don't understand the love for Coach, I really don't.

2-word answer: Father Figure. While certainly not in the patriarch sense, the Coach character represented the one individual who saw Sam up close & personal through his baseball career, his downfall (due to alcoholism) & his recovery. In short, he likely knew Sam the longest.

Additionally, Coach was also viewed as Diane's sole ally at the bar. At the beginning of the show's 3rd season, he's the one who gets Diane back to work at the bar, Sam back on the wagon (he relasped after his breakup at the end of Season 2) and convinces Fraiser (who is introduced in this epsisode) that having Sam & Diane working together won't impact her relationship w/him (Fraiser).

Personally, I view Cheers more of a parallel to M*A*S*H in terms of structure more than Seinfeld.

Similarities:

Both shows ran for 11 seasons (and started in a XXX2 year ('72 for MASH, '82 for Cheers)).

Both had cast changes in Season 4 (Coach to Woody vs. Trapper John & Henry Blake to B.J. Hunnicut & Sherman Potter).

Both brought one occasional character into the main cast line-up in Season 5 (Fraiser vs. Father Mulcahy).

Both had cast changes in Season 6 (Diane to Rebecca vs. Frank Burns to Charles Emerson Winchester III).

Both featured a longer (in running-time), movie-like finale.
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 28):
Additionally, Coach was also viewed as Diane's sole ally at the bar. At the beginning of the show's 3rd season, he's the one who gets Diane back to work at the bar, Sam back on the wagon (he relasped after his breakup at the end of Season 2) and convinces Fraiser (who is introduced in this epsisode) that having Sam & Diane working together won't impact her relationship w/him (Fraiser).

Frankly, I never cared about Diane having allies in the bar. She was awful, and having Frasier come in and be ruined by her is a modern portrayal of how men get screwed by women when they play by all their demands (see Frasier/Lillith season 11 as well.) Not to sound sexist, but it's so true.

By the final episode, the audience has bascially been coached to hate Diane in favor of the other characters (no pun intended.) That is in conjunction with most of the actors and production staff who apparently couldn't stand her when she left.
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 28):

Good analysis of the Cheers/MASH similarities. I think Cheers weathered the cast changes much better than MASH. Was never a fan of BJ or Winchester - show really lost steam when Trapper John and Frank left - Col. Potter was OK, filled the Henry Blake void IMO. But I've drifted off topic a bit so I'll stop there
 
rtalk25
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:44 am

Cheers was from a totally different era. Back when TV shows had TV theme songs! In actuality, there were 4 years where the two shows overlapped but 90's TV, when Seinfeld originated, was very different from the two decades prior. Seinfeld might have started the trend for TV shows to not have theme songs but instead have short jingles. Friends and Charmed just used songs that were already in existance.

Seinfeld remains more contemporary and is still seen on TBS, while Cheers is on Me-TV, which airs much older programming.

I liked both series but didn't like the final seasons of either. As for Cheers, I liked it when they introduced Bebe Neuwirth, but she wasn't a regular in the last season. I also thought Rebecca was becoming too weird in that final season.


The Frasier/Lilith divorce did segue for a Frasier spinoff however, with Frasier being a single man. I didn't get into that show but would watch when Lilith would guest star.
 
jetwet1
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:59 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
Personally Seinfeld's neurosis put me off, and I also found Cheers to be a bit too banal for me. I preferred Taxi to both of them, at least before they went all-in on Andy Kaufman.

Funny there were two shows from the late 70's / early 80's that came to mind when I saw the title, watching Taxi was my secret love, my mother would have freaked.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 28):

Personally, I view Cheers more of a parallel to M*A*S*H in terms of structure more than Seinfeld.

And there is the other, M*A*S*H was so well written, even my pre teen brain could understand it, I laughed, I cried, I laughed some more.

But back to the original question, Cheers, I grew up with it, in the UK at the time we had 3 TV channels, going to 4 in 1982 with CH4, that happened with them came a lot of American TV, but (very foggy memory here) I don't remember seeing Seinfeld in the UK. I did leave in '89 so I stand to be corrected.
 
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NOLAWildcat
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:14 am

Not many people in my age bracket that remember Cheers as anything other than the show with the catchy theme song that their folks watched when we were in preschool. I didn't catch up on it until college, when I found myself devouring it and Frasier wholesale during the long winter nights.

I'm going to have to vote for Cheers. Although I will admit the sheer ridiculousness of several of George's and Kramer's great ideas and the jokes they set up elicit more belly laughs from me than Cheers' jokes do. Actually I prefer Frasier to both of those shows despite it being a bit more formulaic than Cheers or Seinfeld. There's something about the way Kelsey Grammar portrays Frasier's personality skewing between the elitist one of his brother Niles and the practical, cut-though-the-bs one of his dad that gets me every time.

IMHO, dumping Shelley Long was the best thing that ever happened to Cheers. Too bad we never got to see Coach and Woody working together behind the bar though--that would have been a hoot.
 
tommy767
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:35 am

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 31):
Friends and Charmed just used songs that were already in existance.

Friends used the 1995 released song, "I'll Be There For You" by the Rembrandts. It's one of the most famous songs in TV sitcom history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'll_Be...here_for_You_(The_Rembrandts_song)

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 31):
I also thought Rebecca was becoming too weird in that final season.

I think she was going through a drug problem then. Ditto Kelsey Grammar who when they were casting him for Frasier was in an orange jumpsuit picking trash up on the side of the road (not kidding.)

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 33):
IMHO, dumping Shelley Long was the best thing that ever happened to Cheers. Too bad we never got to see Coach and Woody working together behind the bar though--that would have been a hoot.

It would have but crazy to think that for a year or two Frasier and Coach even overlapped.
 
nickh
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 33):
Too bad we never got to see Coach and Woody working together behind the bar though--that would have been a hoot.

Yeah - out of all the characters on "Cheers", Nicholas Colasanto's "Coach" was one of the most endearing characters. He and Woody would have played perfectly off each other's genuine naivety and yet the perfect combination of down to earth smarts. Colasanto passed away in ... hmm, the second or third season, if I remember correctly.
My second favorite was the dry wit that "Norm Peterson" had (e.g. the "Normisims") and of course the sheer goofiness of Cliff Claven.

One of the disappointing things about "Cheers" was the character of "Rebecca Howe" (Kirstie Alley) - she started out as a hard nosed tough-as-nails boss, wanting to succeed no matter what - the bar was just a stepping stone for her - then the writers messed the whole thing up, making her out play a sniveling, incompetent dolt - whenever you introduce the "love triangle" into a show's script, you invariably end up screwing up a perfectly good play by play between the characters...

Just look at the TV show "M*A*S*H*" - it was a gutsy show - controversial at times, great scripts and storylines - then they let Alan Alda start directing the show it devolved into a preachy, sappy show - no real grit or controversy, just a lot of 'feel good' preaching on Alda's part. That was about when the writing was on the wall and the death knell for M*A*S*H*.

Sheesh - I watch WAAY too much TV! - I'm kidding, actually I set the DVR editing decks to record a few Over-The-Air shows on the "Antenna TV" DTV channel and a couple of other OTA channels, and then I spend about an hour or so each weekend, edit out the commercials and then we watch the week's oldies/classic shows as a diversion. No cable or satellite in our house, that is my only edict. Luckily she agrees with it! I took the money that I saved from NOT having 125 channels of cable/satellite TV garbage shows and put it toward upping my internet broadband connection to the highest speed available - 300mbps downstream, 55mbps upstream.

Back to Cheers vs. Seinfeld - the premise of Seinfeld - a show about "nothing" precluded it from ever getting "preachy" or stuck on any one subject - I guess that, that was one of it's unique points.
The occasional "theme based" Seinfeld episodes were sort of funny - for example when Kramer moves out to Los Angeles, the "Bubble Boy", Newman trying to frame Jerry for mail fraud...
And of course, "The Contest"....

Well, just my $0.02 - now less than that, factoring in depreciation, inflation, bribes, kickbacks... sigh.

-Nick
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:16 pm

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 33):
IMHO, dumping Shelley Long was the best thing that ever happened to Cheers.

Actually, she left on her own (likely when her 5-year contract w/Cheers expired) to pursue a movie career (that largely went nowhere).

It's worth noting that during Season 6, there was concern that the show would be cancelled after that season. Back then (1987-1988), People magazine had a front cover story regarding how the cast of Cheers saved the show from getting the axe.

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 33):
Too bad we never got to see Coach and Woody working together behind the bar though--that would have been a hoot.

You do realize that had Colasanto (Coach) not died and continued being on the show; the writers wouldn't have had a need for Woody (who first arrived at the bar looking for his long-distance pen-pal Coach at the beginning of Season 4).

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
It would have but crazy to think that for a year or two Frasier and Coach even overlapped.

The Fraiser/Coach overlap was only for one season (Season 3). Truth be told, towards the latter-half of that season, Colasanto hardly appeared on the show at all (due to obvious health reasons). Earlier shot scenes w/Coach were intertwined with those later episodes; the former scenes being shown prior to the opening credits.

Additionally & IIRC, that was also the season that Shelley Long was pregnant. Since the writers did not want a pregant Diane in the storyline; they had her positioned usually behind the bar. When the pregnancy became more prominent, the writers decided to incorporate Fraiser & Diane's heading off to Italy as a way of hiding Long's pregnancy.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Seinfeld...except for one episode, I could never get into. The Bet. That is all.

It's worth noting that particular episode only aired once on NBC. After it's first airing, it was peramanently banished to syndicated reruns.
 
JAL
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:19 pm

I prefer Seinfeld, funnier show and great casts!
 
4holer
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting nickh (Reply 35):
Just look at the TV show "M*A*S*H*" - it was a gutsy show - controversial at times, great scripts and storylines - then they let Alan Alda start directing the show it devolved into a preachy, sappy show - no real grit or controversy, just a lot of 'feel good' preaching on Alda's part. That was about when the writing was on the wall and the death knell for M*A*S*H*.

Been preaching that same gospel for years.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
I preferred Taxi to both of them, at least before they went all-in on Andy Kaufman.

Don't know about that, but Marilu Henner>Shelly Long+Kirstie Alley+Julia Louis-Dreyfuss+Loretta Swit (combined)

As for the question of the thread, the more I think about it, the more I lean towards Cheers. It's a more complete show.
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:54 pm

Quoting nickh (Reply 35):
Just look at the TV show "M*A*S*H*" - it was a gutsy show - controversial at times, great scripts and storylines - then they let Alan Alda start directing the show it devolved into a preachy, sappy show

A lot of hows tend to go off the rails when one member of an ensemble cast becomes a bigger star and starts to take over story lines. Alda as Hawkeye is a prime example, as was Henry Winkler's Fonzie on Happy Days and probably John Travolta's Vinnie Barbarino on Welcome Back Kotter.
This never happened with Cheers or Seinfeld. They remained a pretty balanced ensemble though out their runs. Yes there were "main characters" and lesser ones but they all maintained relatively the same status over the course of the show
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:48 pm

I liked Cheers much better than Seinfeld. When I moved here, I kind of found it odd that both Cheers and Seinfeld are on TV here in Australia (along with some older US shows like Get Smart, Becker, MASH and a few others). Even though the shows were from the 80s/90s era, they look so old, not like I remember them when I grew up and watched them. Ironically enough in Sydney there is a bar called Cheers. My first weekend here in early September I went there on a Friday night after work to watch the Seahawks and Packers game from week 1.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:18 am

Cheers all the way!
And its spinoff Frasier!
Very smart humor!

Never got Seinfeld, his character does't convince me.
He looks like a stand up comedian trying to act.....oh wait, he is!
Kramer is extremely unbelievable, I mean exaggerated; but I guess the lady and old George acted their part OK.
Some of the story lines are OK too, I guess.....
Where I live they broadcast that stuff at 4AM so when I can't sleep......I'd watch the odd episode.
Hardly ever do I catch my self smiling, let alone laughing.....while watching Seinfeld.

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 40):
ronically enough in Sydney there is a bar called Cheers

I think there are many many bars called Cheers!
The cool thing about this particular venue is that the bar actually existed.....and still does!
Woud love to visit!

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 40):
older US shows like Get Smart, Becker,

Becker is not that old, actually.

"Cheers"

No Tax On Rotax
 
nickh
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 40):
Ironically enough in Sydney there is a bar called Cheers.

As a *complete* coincidence, believe me, I was fumbling around in my woodworking shop room last night, and I ran across a postcard that my younger brother sent to me from Boston, back in 8/14/2005:
What is significant about this postcard, is that the front has a picture of the original "Cheers" bar, including the canopy the stairs leading down to the bar and the awning with the name of the restaurant on the street level - instead of being called "Melville's", it is actually called (as per the awning in the picture), "Hampshire House" with the street number "84" across the top of the awning.

Looking at the back of this postcard that I found, it says that the actual address for "Cheers" - which is actually called the "Bull and Finch" Pub on Beacon Hill - the address is 84 Beacon Street, Boston, MA 02108. Telephone number as printed on the postcard: (617) 227-9605.

And, as evident by the logos on the postcard, the name "Cheers" does carry a registered U.S. trade mark.

Well, I thought that you all would find this interesting - I could scan in the image on the front of the card and post it if you wish, but it is the same image (from a slightly different angle) that you see in the opening credits of the TV show "Cheers".

-Nick

[Edited 2014-10-17 14:57:23]
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting nickh (Reply 42):
Well, I thought that you all would find this interesting - I could scan in the image on the front of the card and post it if you wish, but it is the same image (from a slightly different angle) that you see in the opening credits of the TV show "Cheers".

Please do!


No Tax On Rotax
 
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ER757
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:59 pm

for those who have posted that they just find Seinfeld isn't funny, I was hopping through the channels last night and a station was showing the episode where Jerry, George and Elaine volunteered to visit old folks. If you can watch that and not laugh - you have no sense of humor. I'd say the same if you come across the episode where George is trying to woo "Photo Shop Sheila" with a group of suggestive photos Kramer shot.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:17 pm

Quoting nickh (Reply 42):
Looking at the back of this postcard that I found, it says that the actual address for "Cheers" - which is actually called the "Bull and Finch" Pub on Beacon Hill - the address is 84 Beacon Street, Boston, MA 02108.

Yes, back in the early days when the show was first becoming popular one of my best friends was a college student in Boston. When I visited I asked if we could go to the 'Cheers Bar' and he told me the real name was "The Bull and Finch" and it wasn't worth the trip downtown to visit it. The locals already thought of it as a 'tourist place', overpriced and cramped.

The Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheers says:

Quote:

When the creators settled on a bar as their setting, the show began to resemble the radio show Duffy's Tavern. They liked the idea of a tavern, as it provided a continuous stream of new people, for a variety of characters.[39]. After choosing a setting, the creators needed to choose a location. Early discussions centered on Barstow, California, then Kansas City, Missouri. They eventually turned to the East Coast and finally Boston. The Bull & Finch Pub in Boston, which was the model for Cheers, was chosen from a phone book.[40] When Glen Charles asked the bar's owner, Tom Kershaw, to shoot exterior and interior photos, he agreed, charging $1. Kershaw has since gone on to make millions, licensing the pub's image and selling a variety of Cheers memorabilia. The Bull & Finch became the 42nd busiest outlet in the American food and beverage industry in 1997.

And indeed it's still raking in the dough from the tourist crowd. They no longer call it the Bull and Finch, they now call it "Cheers Beacon Hill" because they also have another touristy outlet in Fanuiel Hall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheers_Beacon_Hill says:

Quote:

Cheers Beacon Hill, formerly the Bull & Finch Pub, is a bar/restaurant located on Beacon Street in the Beacon Hill neighborhood of Boston, Massachusetts, across from the Boston Public Garden. Founded in 1969 as the Bull & Finch Pub, the bar is known internationally as the exterior of the bar seen in the NBC television sitcom Cheers which ran from 1982 to 1993. The show used the Bull & Finch exterior for the series' establishing shots of the namesake bar Cheers. No interior shots were used, and the interior does not resemble that of the Cheers bar.

That last part throws people off. While the inside is covered in Cheers memorabilia, the 'Cheers Bar' only existed in the studios in California.

If you want to see what it looks like, go to http://www.yelp.com/biz/cheers-boston and look at the photos. Also the reviews tell the story. The place isn't that big so it gets pretty crowded on days where the tourists are out in force. Service is spotty and prices are inflated, but it seems people have a decent enough time so it gets 3/5 stars.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 44):
If you can watch that and not laugh - you have no sense of humor.

That is pretty subjective......but I will watch out for those episodes, with an open mind.
I don't promise anything though......and according to some people around me.....I do possess humor!


Cheers,

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csturdiv
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:57 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 41):
Becker is not that old, actually.

Late 90s and early 2000s, kind of old in TV terms.

Quoting nickh (Reply 42):
As a *complete* coincidence, believe me, I was fumbling around in my woodworking shop room last night, and I ran across a postcard that my younger brother sent to me from Boston, back in 8/14/2005:

I've been to that bar. Went inside it back in the early 2000s when my brother was in Boston to play Harvard (he played football at Columbia University). The bar here in Sydney has the same logo as the TV show and stuff inside the bar in Boston. When I went to the one here in SYD, nobody knew my name, but 95% of the people there were American expats getting together to watch NFL. Kind of felt like being back at home at a good sports bar for a while.

I only remember laughing at a few things in Seinfeld. The episode with on the bet who could go longest without self gratification (to put it politely without getting deleted by the mods), the episode where George is visiting his mom in the hospital and catches the nurse giving the lady in the room a sponge bath and maybe the episode where they were lost in the parking garage.
 
Max Q
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:08 am

I don't understand why there's even a question.


Seinfeld was probably the most clever, original and funny sitcom in the history of American television.



Cheers was good but not even in the same ballpark.
 
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cjg225
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RE: Which Was Better "Cheers" Or "Seinfeld?"

Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:06 pm

No question, Seinfeld. I like dry, witty humor more than anything else, and, to me, Seinfeld was far more of a representation of life than it seems at first glance. It really was a show about "nothing" in the sense that it was just the daily grind of life. Not usually much special. Sure, the characters ended up in absurd situations that most might thing never happen in real life, but real life is often absurd to the people living it.

There are so, so many things from Seinfeld that I think of on a daily basis or lines that I use when something happens.

Since M*A*S*H has entered the conversation... I don't get why it was so popular. To me, the movie M*A*S*H is one of the best movies ever made. It is a supreme dark comedy that was truly on the edge (I believe it was the first mainstream movie to use the F-word) for its time. The TV show was... not that, to me. Since it was a TV show, it had to be toned down considerably, which really ruins the premise for me. I cannot stand Alda as Hawkeye; Sutherland will always be him, in my eyes. Everyone in the movie was just so well cast...

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