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Aaron747
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Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:32 am

The moronic nationalists in this Japan-land are at it again! Now they are trying to get the film 'Unbroken' banned via online petition (yeah, right), claiming that Zamperini's POW story was entirely fabricated. To make it even more fun, right-wingers are labelling director Angelina Jolie 'racist and immoral' for her portrayal of Zamperini's story.

Boy, these idiots are a sight to behold. Can't wait till this comes up in my next conversation with an idiot at the local bar...

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014...s-racist-say-japanese-nationalists
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ltbewr
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:45 am

Japan has a domestic view of its history of the era of the 1920's to the end of WWII that is very different than that of Germany. In Japan, some still glorify those that died in that era, they don't acknowledge the torture and horrors they caused to POW's, Koreans, Chinese and the people of Southeast Asia and South Pacific. They pretty much ignore that era in school textbooks and popular culture.
Then again we in the USA and elsewhere have parts of our history we tend to bury, ignore and deliberately not talk about.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:37 pm

This is unsurprising. I took an interest a few months ago in the Nanking Massacre and did some reading up on it...which was followed by reading up on the extreme amount of denial on the Japanese side that the Japanese troops stepped out of line even an inch. What's worse is that beyond publicly denying these horrors, Japan doesn't even allow films or books in the country that counter this ultra-nationalist view.
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Aaron747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 2):
What's worse is that beyond publicly denying these horrors, Japan doesn't even allow films or books in the country that counter this ultra-nationalist view.

Absolutely untrue. There are no outright bans on publishing wartime accounts. There are independent research organizations within this country that have conducted exhaustive interviews in the countries that were invaded in the 1930s and 40s, and have sought to provide a rightful account of human rights abuses.

The problem with films and mainstream books of such a nature is they will inevitably draw strong, sometimes violent protest from nationalists, that will be directed at the publishers or theaters. Most of those operations don't want to be bothered by those right wing groups, so it can be hard to find businesses willing to participate in that message.
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WestJet747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
Absolutely untrue. There are no outright bans on publishing wartime accounts.
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
The problem with films and mainstream books of such a nature is they will inevitably draw strong, sometimes violent protest from nationalists, that will be directed at the publishers or theaters. Most of those operations don't want to be bothered by those right wing groups, so it can be hard to find businesses willing to participate in that message.

I never said it was a ban. Specific to the Nanking issue, the two biggest films made about it (that are not made by the Chinese) have not been shown in Japan which can be seen to be a result of the powerful nationalist opinion. When people of influence make it so that the status quo can't be questioned through media like film and books, there's a serious problem. Though it might as well be a ban if thought-provoking materials are kept away through coercion.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
There are independent research organizations within this country that have conducted exhaustive interviews in the countries that were invaded in the 1930s and 40s, and have sought to provide a rightful account of human rights abuses.

So why still all the denial then? The evidence is overwhelmingly stacked against the nationalist view of these events.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:40 pm

It is absulutely true that Japan needs some serious investigations of its past history.

However, while I must admit I do not know this movie, and while I strongly oppose banning movies for having the wrong opinion, US movies sometimes are showing a very annoying view on WW2, as well.

Worst ever movie Pearl Harbour comes to my mind in this regard, but it is not the only one.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:07 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
It is absulutely true that Japan needs some serious investigations of its past history.

They did. In fact, postwar Japan cooperated fully and worked to hunt down war criminals for many years. If you've read the book Unbroken, it goes into great detail about how they tried to hunt "The Bird" for many years.

I don't think it's a fair statement to say what you did, but Japanese DO need to accept their history and what happened.
 
BN747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):

I don't think it's a fair statement to say what you did, but Japanese DO need to accept their history and what happened.

Now that's hilarious...

American conservatives can point a finger at conservatives of another nation and say 'you need come with full accounting of your history'...

BUT when someone demands the very same from them with regard to America's Dark Past... they do exactly as these Japanese Conservatives/Ultra Rightwingers do... start screaming it's racists, it's wrong, etc..

Denial itself has become an official political party.

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Aaron747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:03 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
So why still all the denial then? The evidence is overwhelmingly stacked against the nationalist view of these events.

They are not interested in hearing about it.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
When people of influence make it so that the status quo can't be questioned through media like film and books, there's a serious problem.

One problem might be that the LDP, the dominant political party since the 1950s (who were installed by the US because they had favorable security policies), has always had a nationalist element among its rural membership.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
However, while I must admit I do not know this movie, and while I strongly oppose banning movies for having the wrong opinion, US movies sometimes are showing a very annoying view on WW2, as well.

Worst ever movie Pearl Harbour comes to my mind in this regard, but it is not the only one.

That was a bad one, for sure, but there are plenty of others that were excellent. Clint Eastwood is highly respected for making 'Letters from Iwo Jima'.

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
but Japanese DO need to accept their history and what happened.

Sometimes I think even the ones who do, don't want to really think about it. There's a strong 'get on from bad things' undercurrent in the culture.
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:51 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
To make it even more fun, right-wingers are labelling director Angelina Jolie 'racist and immoral' for her portrayal of Zamperini's story.

You sure this isn't Sony driven?  
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
Worst ever movie Pearl Harbour comes to my mind in this regard, but it is not the only one.

Yes, Michael Bay could be committed for crimes against intelligent humanity.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):
American conservatives can point a finger at conservatives of another nation and say 'you need come with full accounting of your history'...

BUT when someone demands the very same from them with regard to America's Dark Past... they do exactly as these Japanese Conservatives/Ultra Rightwingers do... start screaming it's racists, it's wrong, etc..

True of conservatives everywhere.
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:25 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
US movies sometimes are showing a very annoying view on WW2, as well.

Worst ever movie Pearl Harbour comes to my mind in this regard, but it is not the only one.

I saw it once, refused to watch it again. About the only redeeming quality is the fact that for two years one of the Zeros used in the film was based up here in Anchorage.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
Clint Eastwood is highly respected for making 'Letters from Iwo Jima'.

That is an excellent film...And while not as good, Flags of our Fathers is also a good picture.
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:12 am

Being Australian, two of my great uncles were captured and cruelly tortured and starved by the Japanese in WWII. I have zero tolerance for the pathetic, weak ego protection of Japanese nationalism and no intention to understand that "this is the way it is in Japan" and "you just have to accept it." Over my dead body.
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Aaron747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 11):
I have zero tolerance for the pathetic, weak ego protection of Japanese nationalism and no intention to understand that "this is the way it is in Japan" and "you just have to accept it." Over my dead body.

Fair enough, but a couple of problems with this:

1. You or even I, as a foreign resident in Japan, can do very little to impact such attitudes.

2. Everyday Japanese are very confrontation avoidant, and even if they believe you and I are right, they are not about to openly challenge the screaming morons who typify the nationalists. That would be very めんどくさい (mentally tiring) for them, especially where it involves criticizing the older generations, which is simply not done in this culture.

3. The major western powers are the best positioned to challenge these views with official statements. This is not the 80s, and the economic ego-bruising to avoid seems far less risky these days. Nevertheless, they don't seem to want to dredge this stuff up that much either. That may be a place to start though.  

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
That is an excellent film..

Agreed. I did like Flags, but not nearly as much as Letters.
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WestJet747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):

What exactly does this Japanese story have to do with American conservatism again?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
They are not interested in hearing about it.

Are they typically older, or are there a lot of younger nationalists too? Is it something that would ever "die off"?

Quoting allrite (Reply 9):
Yes, Michael Bay could be committed for crimes against intelligent humanity.

But there's lots of explosions! Pew pew pew!
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Aaron747
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:59 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
Are they typically older, or are there a lot of younger nationalists too? Is it something that would ever "die off"?

Mostly middle-aged or older, but there are a few younger members (usually relatives of the older ones). They are almost entirely men with way too much time on their hands.

At around 0:45 in this news report, you can see clearly what kind of people these are. The report is about groups in the Kansai region who have been harassing Japanese ethnic Koreans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUD7uaWo_I4#t=15
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):

What exactly does this Japanese story have to do with American conservatism again?

Nothing. But it is a point worth discussing. I find the dismissal of the torture happening after 9-11 in some right-wing circles very alarming.

I do agree, however, that this point should not be discussed here. In fact, you have this finger-pointing discussion everywhere, and it is totally pointless. Also in Germany you hear some morons saying "Were always discussing german guilt in WW2, but what about "USA in Vietnam" or "bombing of Dresden".

The answer is: Unjustice committed by one part is never a justification for unjustice by someone else.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):
Now that's hilarious...

American conservatives can point a finger at conservatives of another nation and say 'you need come with full accounting of your history'...

BUT when someone demands the very same from them with regard to America's Dark Past... they do exactly as these Japanese Conservatives/Ultra Rightwingers do... start screaming it's racists, it's wrong, etc..

Denial itself has become an official political party.

Why must you politicize everything? You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you?  

There is a strong cultural issue in Japanese society at play here. Not so with the USA, where we openly rip off our scabs for the world to see. I don't know where people try to avoid this "America's Dark Past" you speak of, but we faced the ills of slavery, we have open discussions about all of it in a free society.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
Sometimes I think even the ones who do, don't want to really think about it. There's a strong 'get on from bad things' undercurrent in the culture.

Exactly. And the intent of my thread is that the Japanese approach is much different from that of the Germans, who almost take it to the opposite extreme--that of self-flagellation where holocaust denial is a crime. But the evils of war can never be fully ignored by ANY party, victor or loser. The Germans faced it and swallowed that bitter pill--having their country divided for decades, in fact. But I don't even know if Japanese children are taught about the background and factors that led to Japanese militarism. And if BN747 knew how bastardized the bushido code was, knew of the rise of the kempetai (sp?), etc, maybe he wouldn't have made that inflammatory comment to draw an inane political parallel and comparison to the US.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, Aaron, given your intimate familiarity with Japanese culture and society.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):

There is a strong cultural issue in Japanese society at play here. Not so with the USA

If you mean by the divide of 'war feelings'...we have that too. (not sure what you're getting at) ...But as far Japan's inability to discuss 'itself' (vs America/Americans blabbing about themselves all day long) ...well that's uniquely Japan, I lived there twice, I know the deal.

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
I don't know where people try to avoid this "America's Dark Past" you speak of

Certain conservatives here on A.net (I'm guessing they learned it from Fox Noise ), go completely batshit when race issues are raise - past and present. 'Race Baiters' are you guys favorite term to sling about, although the damn word has no meaning whatsoever!

The Japanese Ultra Right is going bonkers just as Rush and his followers did over '12 years a Slave...

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
but we faced the ills of slavery, we have open discussions about all of it in a free society.

No we have not, you make it sound as if the whole USA is on the same page of discussion, that could be farther from the truth. And that is exactly why the nation is so divided in everything from Police killings (involving minority shootings to discussing the Prez himself).

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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
But I don't even know if Japanese children are taught about the background and factors that led to Japanese militarism.

There's only a few pages devoted to WWII in the most recent public school textbooks (it changes every few years) but, they basically learn the following: (my sarcasm added)

1. Meiji restoration brought constitutional politics to Japan after centuries of internal fighting for scarce resources
2. foreign influence divided Meiji era leaders between modernization and preserving Japanese ways
3. brief wars with China and Russia over scarce resources freaked us out!
4. we turned inward again, fearing effects of global industrial economy
5. worldwide depression in 1929 scared Old Money people and the military seized power
6. Nobody would sell us oil or metals so we had to get them from Asian countries!
7. Britian and America wanted those resources too so they embargoed us
8. The military took the country to war in vain attempt to defend our honor
9. America kicked our ass and we were left more poor and resource-starved than ever before
10. Our leaders realized militarism wasn't the way forward and accepted American systems
11. the Korean war revived our economy, America gave us tons of money and let us have our own leadership under their model
12. we became an egalitarian middle class society revered by the world and lived happily ever after

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
And if BN747 knew how bastardized the bushido code was, knew of the rise of the kempetai (sp?),

I doubt if many people under 40 here know what the kempeitai was. If they do know, it's because they have gone to the library and done their own research. That definitely isn't mentioned in school.

That said, there has recently been a morning serial on NHK over the last year or so depicting the true story of a woman who was working on a translation of Anne of Green Gables when the war broke out, and there are scenes of neighbors harassing her for being an 'lover of English books' and kempeitai harassment of her family members. That may get some younger viewers to learn more about what went on at the time.

[Edited 2014-12-11 18:11:41]
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:14 am

I would suggest the reading of the book Flyboys by James Bradley whose Father was a Flag Raiser on Iwo Jima. Our future President George Bush was at Chichi Jima, and was rescued after being shot down there. This is an example of the Japanese treatment of prisoners which certainly agrees with the experiences of Louis Zamperini. This is not an isolated incident. Unfortunately the Japanese have not been able to face their own Demons. I give the Germans credit for facing theirs. I still feel that in many a back room in modern Japan, there is a Samurai Sword and all that entails in relation to their treatment of their captured enemies in WW2. The Bushido Code of the Samurai was not followed for sure.

[Edited 2014-12-11 19:35:16]

[Edited 2014-12-11 19:37:58]
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:27 am

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/japan_chi_chi_jima.html


A little example of the history of Chichi Jima and what happened there. The sword was a favorite weapon.
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ltbewr
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:37 am

One big problem with Japan and dealing with their history of the 1920's and WWII is in large part the post-WWII policy of the USA and allies as to them.
We ended the 'god on earth', status of the Emperor, forcing on Japan a Capitalist, Constitutional Monarchy. The USA neutered Japan's military and we pretty much took over with our forces and still have a significant military presence mainly on Okinawa. We were very afraid of the USSR seizing Japan expanding their empire, as happened in Europe after war and/or becoming Communist as would happen to China and Korea. There was also the issue of guilt over using Nuclear bombs in Japan as well as other mass bombings that killed millions. We also knew, from after WWII in Europe, that it was far better to not impose harsh sanctions that would trigger another war.
Those changes were not always accepted, many Japanese didn't like our policies, there was too much change in their culture in a short time as well as hurting their national pride. It also meant we imposed shame on themselves, a very different concept to most Westerners and Americans.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
I don't know where people try to avoid this "America's Dark Past" you speak of, but we faced the ills of slavery, we have open discussions about all of it in a free society.

You ought to look up a few officially sanctioned high school history books from states such as Texas. You'd think slavery was a minor detail and the white, Christian God created the USA. And I don't mean history books that are themselves part of history, I mean books approved as recently as this year.
 
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 22):

You ought to look up a few officially sanctioned high school history books from states such as Texas. You'd think slavery was a minor detail and the white, Christian God created the USA. And I don't mean history books that are themselves part of history, I mean books approved as recently as this year.

And of course the revisionist history that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. It was about "states rights."
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I would suggest the reading of the book Flyboys by James Bradley whose Father was a Flag Raiser on Iwo Jima. Our future President George Bush was at Chichi Jima, and was rescued after being shot down there

Another excellent read BTW:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Unfortunately the Japanese have not been able to face their own Demons.

Agreed, one of the issues they have is the stories of Japanese canabalism of prisoners. I was just reading a news story that was one of the issues the nationalists where having a hissy fit about.

A few years ago, back when I still had cable, there was a show about the building of Burma railway (Think Bridge on the River Kwai). They located a Japanese engineer who had worked on the road during WWII. He was insistant that he never saw slave labor being used for its construction. This is despite the fact that he had a photo of him on the road during it's construction and you can clearly see what appear to be Dutch or Aussie POW's in the background. I think he is representative of the issue. The horrors that country inflicted is so painful that they just block it out.
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
The horrors that country inflicted is so painful that they just block it out.

I agree. The image of WW2 Japan does not mesh with the image of modern Japan, so they do block it. It seems it is too horrible for them to acknowledge. We and the rest of the world remember, so they can deny all they want to, the past cannot be washed away so easily.

[Edited 2014-12-13 16:10:47]
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PHX787
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RE: Japan Right Wing Wants To Ban Film 'Unbroken'

Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:39 pm

Japan's uyoku need to get their heads out of their asses. And Japan's youth need to start giving a damn.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
o make it even more fun, right-wingers are labelling director Angelina Jolie 'racist and immoral' for her portrayal of Zamperini's story.

It's ironic...given how racist they are themselves.
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