If you look at TSA blog, there are 25-40 guns found at checkpoints every single week, most of them loaded and many with chambered round. Many other funny things are on their list as well - such as smoke grenade at IAD or spear gun in LAS within past 2 weeks.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 12): If you look at TSA blog, there are 25-40 guns found at checkpoints every single week, most of them loaded and many with chambered round. Many other funny things are on their list as well - such as smoke grenade at IAD or spear gun in LAS within past 2 weeks.

  

Guess a slow week in aviation.

Didn't see any thread on the girl that died on UA flight from LHR-EWR.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2): This will be more common as more and more are packing legally...People at airports often are in a big rush and tend to forgot lots of things

This happened to my cousin. He borrowed a bag from my uncle and neither of them realized a loaded hand gun was in one of the compartments. TSA caught it, they called the cops who then allowed my cousin to give the gun to my uncle instead of confiscating it and he was then allowed to board his flight.

Quoting azstar (Reply 10): This is the weakest, most pathetic argument I've heard about owning a firearm. It's a page right out of the NRA propoganda handbook. "If more people had guns fewer people would get killed". Come on!

You live in Arizona with this viewpoint?

Fact, very few criminals using guns in the commission of a crime obtained them legally. And thankfully, cases where violent crimes are broken up are becoming more and more common place as gun ownership rapidly increases.

Case in point, a gun owner broke up a robbery of a Red Lobster in Vegas just last week:

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/12/05/red-lobster-robbery-stopped/

Quoting BWI5OH (Reply 8): So by that rational, when you forget where you parked your car in a parking lot, it makes you look less than smart, so you shouldn't own one

A parked car is not a danger to anyone around it. A loaded gun.... that is less than smart.

I have known a couple of cops who have shown up to work and forgot their weapon cause they were in a rush it happens to everyone from time to time people will forget something. How many people forget their ID when they show up at the airport I bet its more than people forgetting their pistol is their purse.

Cards on the table: I'm a huge supporter of private firearm ownership. An armed populace is a prerequisite for true democracy to exist (and I don't think any country can claim to actually being a true democracy)

With that being said, not being aware of the location of your firearm is a massive lapse in judgement. Not because firearms can spontaneously discharge or anything like that, but because it isn't there should you need it, or someone else could stumble upon it and if misused, you're going to have a fun time explaining to a court how it wasn't you who killed someone with your gun.

Deadly force is a responsibility. I believe have a right to defend themselves should the need arise, but that does not absolve anyone of the responsibility to keep weapons secure.

TSA posts every week on their blog how many guns they confiscate and at which airports. I am a gun owner and believe in the right to defend my life and my family. I know where my gun is and I'm very methodical about procedures with it. I've never taken it to the airport by mistake in 20+ years I've owned it. That said as posters above have pointed out it wouldn't be appropriate for TSA to arrest them. There was a pilot a few years back who was going through a nasty divorce. His soon to be ex wife put a gun in his bag to get him in trouble. Unfortunately these things do happen from time to time. We don't really want TSA to do anything but bar them from the sterile side of the airport while law enforcement deals with them.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): The frightening part is that if she's carrying a loaded firearm in her purse, than that firearm could be pointing at anyone as she walks around during the day. The first rule of firearm safety is that you do not point a firearm at anything or anybody you do not intend to shoot.

This is why we need more open carry. Much less of issue in the great state of Georgia where one can open carry.

on a side note this comment really does understand the lack of understanding and very little knowledge about firearms. Sorry Doc, but its not nearly as simple as you make it. Guns very very very rarely kill people.

people on the other hand do it more so.

but for bags and things like plenty of companies make holsters for likes like purses.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 4): This is what makes the gun rights group look less than smart.

not at all. Its no less smart than the thousands of people who forget where their keys are. Forget they have a lighter on them. Forget about the small pocket knife they always carry around.

If you conceal carry in something like a purse or a jacket it is real easy to just "forget" that your gun is their when your running late and in a rush.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 9): I have not seen too many lost cars be used to accidentally kill someone.

you missed the point completely.

but I have seen pocket knifes, razor blades and lighters used to kill people. Check the little bin in front of TSA sometimes. In Atlanta at least it always seems to have plenty of those items as well as water bottles in it.

and of course the lost car could be stolen and used in crime or an accident.

Quoting azstar (Reply 10): This is the weakest, most pathetic argument I've heard about owning a firearm. It's a page right out of the NRA propoganda handbook. "If more people had guns fewer people would get killed". Come on!

And speaking of weak propaganda.......right out of anti-gunner hand book. "NRA this, NRA that."

In real life, statistically speaking you will generally find that the states who are free states have less crime than those that don't.

I carry a loaded gun on airplanes all the time...albeit it's Alaska and it's usually in a Cub or Beaver. What's the big deal?  

Quoting 777stl (Reply 14): This happened to my cousin. He borrowed a bag from my uncle and neither of them realized a loaded hand gun was in one of the compartments. TSA caught it, they called the cops who then allowed my cousin to give the gun to my uncle instead of confiscating it and he was then allowed to board his flight.

I've only had one call to or airport for a gun at the checkpoint. He forgot he had it,he was allowed to put it in his car after we checked the serial number to make sure it wasn't stolen.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 16): I have known a couple of cops who have shown up to work and forgot their weapon cause they were in a rush it happens to everyone from time to time people will forget something.

Been there, done that. Once.

Now I don't carry my work gun home with me anymore, so luckily it won't happen again.

Sigh. How about we could stick to the aviation subject rather than getting into other topics and the usual arguments.

Quoting BWI5OH (Reply 8): So by that rational, when you forget where you parked your car in a parking lot, it makes you look less than smart, so you shouldn't own one.

Epic analogy fail.   

If one can't tell the difference between not remembering where one parked one's car and where one left one's loaded gun, then it makes one look considerably less than smart.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 22): Sigh. How about we could stick to the aviation subject rather than getting into other topics and the usual arguments.

Well, the topic is about idiots who try to board planes with loaded guns.

It's a shame firearms aren't licensed - then if people are foolish their licenses can be taken away, probably on a double jeopardy basis (make a mistake, OK, do it more than once, you're dumb and you shouldn't have on). At least they're being caught by the YSA, I wonder how many aren't?

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 17): Cards on the table: I'm a huge supporter of private firearm ownership. An armed populace is a prerequisite for true democracy to exist (and I don't think any country can claim to actually being a true democracy)

That's the most bizarre claim I've ever read on ANet. Probably not the place for it either.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19): on a side note this comment really does understand the lack of understanding and very little knowledge about firearms. Sorry Doc, but its not nearly as simple as you make it. Guns very very very rarely kill people.

WOW. You're in very, very deep with the self-delusion there. Using this argument, it essentially means that virtually every death by firearm ABSOLUTELY would have happened via some other means if the gun weren't available. (Because remember, the entire basis of the argument is the gun doesn't kill people--people do---therefore, the deaths caused are a foregone conclusion--only the method by which the death occurred is a variable).

If don't see how preposterous that is, well, then I hope my sake and those of my loved ones that you live very, very far away from me.

Also, for the "very, very, very" allegedly rare circumstances that guns DO apparently kill people, tell that to the families of young children of the responsible gun owner who left their loaded weapon just laying around. Because all I'm hearing is gun owners are beyond reproach because guns don't do anything. (I mean, after all, since guns DON'T KILL PEOPLE, I don't get the need to be safe or responsible with them).

Edit: I only went off topic to this extent because it still is relevant to the topic: While you're right that with so many gun owners and so many guns, the vast majority are responsible. The problem is that I disagree that guns only "very, very, very rarely" kill people--it happens often enough to be enough. So if there are people dumb enough to leave a loaded gun around their own 3 year old child, there are people dumb enough to bring a loaded gun onto a plane AND mishandle it causing a discharge. While I might later be thrilled a "good guy with gun" stopped the robbery at my Red Lobster, I would be decidedly less thrilled if a self-identified responsible gun owner ends up discharging their .45 on my otherwise happy flight to LAS.

[Edited 2014-12-11 00:21:00]

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 24): That's the most bizarre claim I've ever read on ANet. Probably not the place for it either.

Actually, it's a central tenant of liberal political theory since at least the 17th century, with Locke's Two Treatises of Government. It was also referenced and defended in Federalist No. 29 by Alexander Hamilton, one of the founding fathers of the United States.

Judging from the flag beside your username, you're from a nation with differing values and cultural norms on various political and social topics. Although firearm ownership is a sensitive topic, it would be arrogant and unbecoming to speak as if one series of policies was the universal solution to all issues as they pertain to all nations, regardless of their socioeconomic, political, cultural, and ideological backgrounds.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2): People at airports often are in a big rush and tend to forgot lots of things

What a load of rubbish.... people are always in a hurry !

Does that give me the right to drive over somebody crossing the road, because I'm in a hurry !


If you own a gun. you should always know where it is No exceptions !

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2): This will be more common as more and more are packing legally...People at airports often are in a big rush and tend to forgot lots of things

Freudian slip? You admitted all the non responsible gun owners the rest of society has to look out for. Thankfully they rarely cross the Atlantic.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2): This will be more common as more and more are packing legally...People at airports often are in a big rush and tend to forgot lots of things

With common sense being one of those things  

I'm glad I live in a country where firearms are banned for the most part and where only people using them for sporting purposes (even they there are strict controls) are allowed to own them.

I was in Mississippi a couple of weeks ago and it was petrifying seeing people walk around with guns. In the UK and Norway the woman would likely be in prison now had she been caught trying to smuggle firearms through security. But in the US all they do is confiscate it? Madness.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 33): Norway the woman would likely be in prison now had she been caught trying to smuggle firearms through security.

What evidence is there that she was trying to smuggle it? Those sorts of non-factual assertions don't really help your argument.

[Edited 2014-12-11 06:29:21]

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19): In real life, statistically speaking you will generally find that the states who are free states have less crime than those that don't.

Oh Lord..."free states?" What pray tell is a "free state?" Oh wait...I know...right out of Red Dawn. Sheesh.

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 26): WOW. You're in very, very deep with the self-delusion there.

not at all. Other than some kind of malfunction, their is always some other factor involved.

The gun that is on my hip right now is not going to kill me. It isn't going to just come to life and start shooting. However if someone comes into my house then I am going to use the gun.........but I did it. Not the gun.

Question, Drunk driver gets into a car and runs me over. Who killed me? car or the driver?

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 26): Using this argument, it essentially means that virtually every death by firearm ABSOLUTELY would have happened via some other means if the gun weren't available.

I am not quite sure I would go that far. 9/10 gun deaths wouldn't happen if you take the idiot out of the situation.

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 26): Also, for the "very, very, very" allegedly rare circumstances that guns DO apparently kill people, tell that to the families of young children of the responsible gun owner who left their loaded weapon just laying around. Because all I'm hearing is gun owners are beyond reproach because guns don't do anything. (I mean, after all, since guns DON'T KILL PEOPLE, I don't get the need to be safe or responsible with them).

The gun didn't kill the three year old in that case though(and I would be more than happy to tell the families that)

the dumba** who left the gun where a kid could get to it and did not properly raise the kid is the one who killed the child. He/she might not have pulled the trigger but they are still responsible. (and generally legally they are the ones who get into trouble. )

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 33): But in the US all they do is confiscate it? Madness.

freedom is terrible.

hate it so much.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 33): In the UK and Norway the woman would likely be in prison now had she been caught trying to smuggle firearms through security.

so now she is trying to smuggle the gun?

Quoting B727FA (Reply 35): What pray tell is a "free state?"

States in which law makers can.....well read. 2nd amendment as such.  

However, drunk driver with no car, is just a PITA.

No one gets killed.

I make it a point to double check all my belongings and packing before I fly. Just good common sense to stay in compliance with the regulations.

I do this coming and going, it makes security a lot easier to deal with.

I did screw up once and leave my wallet in my pants. That required that I get pulled aside.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 37):

idiot without gun, no one gets killed.

just a PITA

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 38):

left a cell phone in a car........didn't figure it out till got to where I was going.

#firstworldprobs

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23): Quoting cschleic (Reply 22): Sigh. How about we could stick to the aviation subject rather than getting into other topics and the usual arguments. Well, the topic is about idiots who try to board planes with loaded guns.

Right. But the discussion got off into non-aviation topics.

I just heard on the radio they fined the woman $1500

Quoting MainRunway (Reply 41):

they being TSA or they being the local cops?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19): In real life, statistically speaking you will generally find that the states who are free states have less crime than those that don't.

I'm not sure what you mean by "free states," but assuming Georgia is one of them, you can find here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

that Atlanta is near the top in most crime-rate statistics for large US cities. Of course, if you now look at "non-free" countries, like, say, the UK, you will see that the violent crime rates there are even much lower.

As this thread has veered (expectedly so...) into the non-av realm, is being moved.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 38): I make it a point to double check all my belongings and packing before I fly. Just good common sense to stay in compliance with the regulations.

I have a travel bag where my gun never goes, and a range bag I would never travel with. Makes it easier to avoid anything being left in there (even things such as ammo or magazines)

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 26): It was also referenced and defended in Federalist No. 29 by Alexander Hamilton, one of the founding fathers of the United States.

And you need to read his writings in MUCH greater depth...hence why most folks that are gung ho on the 2nd Amendment blow right by the "well regulated militia" part that he was arguing for in his papers.

Quoting BWI5OH (Reply 8): Yeah...because guns seem to fire all by themselves.

A gun in a purse sure as hell can. Some a tube of lipstick gets through the trigger aperture, something pushes the safety...BANG.

Because, you know, guns NEVER accidentally discharge.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 33): The gun that is on my hip right now is not going to kill me. It isn't going to just come to life and start shooting. However if someone comes into my house then I am going to use the gun.........but I did it. Not the gun.

Until one day you leave it somewhere and your kid gets to it.

FACT (a fact is not an opinion): people who have firearms in their homes are three times more likely to die of gunshot than people without firearms in their homes.

Do you know how to stop home intruders? Pepper spray (I have it clipped to my wall by the door). A German Shepherd. A properly reinforced kick-proof door. Laminate windows. There are lots of more effective and less dangerous ways than a gun.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): Pepper spray (I have it clipped to my wall by the door)

I recommend against using this. Unless you have been pepper sprayed yourself (I have), it's not a pleasant experience and when using it in close quarters, you WILL be affected also. Not saying you have to get a gun unless you want to, just recommending against pepper spray. Your other safety measures are much better than that.

This also brings up an interesting issue with marijuana. I am all for banning guns on flights and banning smoking of anything on flights in the cabin. However, on DOMESTIC flights, if ammo and guns are packed separately and checked or if pot and means are packed separately and checked AND that ticket holder is over 18 years old, why make an issue? If they try to carry on, I get why they are detained and questioned. I have been on plenty of WN and UA flights and even driven over Loveland Pass. I mention that because I am sure there has been at least one gun and ammo checked on at least one flight one time, or at the top of Loveland Pass Colorado.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): The frightening part is that if she's carrying a loaded firearm in her purse, than that firearm could be pointing at anyone as she walks around during the day.

Off-body carry is a perfectly acceptable way to carry a firearm as long as the trigger is protected. I will often carry my firearm in a sling-bag when I go to the gym. It is enclosed in a Disantis pocket holster.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): And, seeing as how the TSA is fantastic at missing things, it's only a matter of time until one is brought aboard a plane and then discharges.

Because a firearm will just discharge on its own. You do know what causes a firearm to discharge? Someone pulling the trigger. That trigger can be pulled deliberately or negligently, but, absent a malfunction or some strange circumstance (say, dropping a revolver on its hammer), a firearm will not just discharge.

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 17): With that being said, not being aware of the location of your firearm is a massive lapse in judgement.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27): If you own a gun. you should always know where it is No exceptions !

Agreed. Absolutely correct. I am aware of where all my firearms are at all times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 30): it was petrifying seeing people walk around with guns.

Why?

Are you an hoplaphobe?

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 30): But in the US all they do is confiscate it?

Was she trying to smuggle the weapon or just forgot she had it? It is not against the law where she lives to have a firearm on airport property. That varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 35): I make it a point to double check all my belongings and packing before I fly. Just good common sense to stay in compliance with the regulations.

I have a range bag that is never used as a travel bag. I go through each and every piece of luggage to ensure there is no loose ammunition...I already know there are no firearms. When I drive to NY, I go through my car as thoroughly as possible, because, quite incredulously, ammunition is illegal in NY, NJ and some other localities.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): A gun in a purse sure as hell can. Some a tube of lipstick gets through the trigger aperture, something pushes the safety...BANG.

That's one hell of a tube of lipstick, let me tell you.

The firearm pictured appears to be Ruger LCP w/a laser. I happen to own one. The trigger has about .5 inch slack and about an 8 pound pull. I submit that the only thing in a purse that will cause that particular weapon to discharge is a finger. Incidentally, the LCP does not have a safety.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): Because, you know, guns NEVER accidentally discharge.

They don't, they are either deliberately discharged or negligently discharged...assuming a properly functioning firearm.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): FACT (a fact is not an opinion): people who have firearms in their homes are three times more likely to die of gunshot than people without firearms in their homes.

Just like smokers are more likely to die from a smoking related illness than non-smokers. Just like sky-divers are more likely to die from a sky-diving accident than non-sky-divers. Just like skiers are more likely to die than non-skiers. It is a useless statistic designed to scare people.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): Do you know how to stop home intruders? Pepper spray (I have it clipped to my wall by the door).

As Kai mentioned, be prepared to take a snootful. And, you better be able to recover quicker than the person you sprayed. But, both my wife and I have ready access to pepper spray.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43): A German Shepherd.

My dogs will buy me the time I need to usher my family to relative safety, if applicable, and get to a firearm.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 46): Was she trying to smuggle the weapon or just forgot she had it?

Were the Sept 11 hijackers trying to smuggle box cutters or did they forget they had them?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 46): Off-body carry is a perfectly acceptable way to carry a firearm as long as the trigger is protected. I will often carry my firearm in a sling-bag when I go to the gym. It is enclosed in a Disantis pocket holster.

"I thought the safety was on..." or "I thought it was in the safe..."

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 46): Because a firearm will just discharge on its own.

from turbulence. But that is acceptable?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47): Were the Sept 11 hijackers trying to smuggle box cutters or did they forget they had them?

That is a ridiculous comparison. So, do you think that everyone with a nail clipper should be arrested? How about people with a little too much shampoo in their carry-on? That person with the open water bottle; clearly a threat, toss him in jail.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47): "I thought the safety was on..." or "I thought it was in the safe..."

Exactly what does that have to do with off-body carry?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47): from turbulence.

Really? Have you ever fired a firearm? Pulled a trigger? I just took my firearm out of its holster and shook it around. I moved it violently from the left to the right. I moved it up and down in a very abrupt fashion. I shook it as though I was Homer laying into Bart. Guess what? It didn't go off. I'm pretty sure that it didn't even think about going off. It just remained in my hand(s)...not...going...off. I even put it down on the desk to see if it would spontaneously decide to fire after resting a bit. It did not. It just laid there...not...going...off.

Disclaimer: I did unload it because I don't play with a loaded firearm. But, I can assure you, the striker did not move forward at the appropriate velocity to ignite a primer, or any velocity, for that matter.

[Edited 2014-12-12 23:25:07]

[Edited 2014-12-12 23:26:31]

[Edited 2014-12-12 23:28:16]

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 48): Pulled a trigger? I just took my firearm out of its holster and shook it around. I moved it violently from the left to the right. I moved it up and down in a very abrupt fashion. I shook it as though I was Homer laying into Bart. Guess what? It didn't go off. I'm pretty sure

But not sure enough because you

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 48): did unload it because I don't play with a loaded firearm

Because there is a chance.... a small chance.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 48): That person with the open water bottle; clearly a threat, toss him in jail.

The gun brought through security by someone by accident, in someone elses hands could be a threat... A bottle of Evian is not.