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fr8mech
Posts: 8098
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:03 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 49):
Because there is a chance.... a small chance.

Because I understand safe handling of a firearm. A firearm discharges because it is handled. Turbulence does not "handle" a firearm.

It's a ridiculous proposition that turbulence would cause a firearm to discharge.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 49):
A bottle of Evian is not.

Tell that to the TSA.....
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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BestWestern
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:41 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 50):
It's a ridiculous proposition that turbulence would cause a firearm to discharge.

A badly packed fire arm could be discharged during turbulence. A properly packed fire arm will not be.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 50):
Because I understand safe handling of a firearm.

Because you know the catastrophic risks also.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 8098
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 51):
A badly packed fire arm could be discharged during turbulence.

No, it couldn't. The chances that a firearm dropped in a purse would discharge to due turbulence are so low as to be non-existent.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 51):

Because you know the catastrophic risks also.

Of mishandling a firearm? Absolutely.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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KaiGywer
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 51):
A badly packed fire arm could be discharged during turbulence. A properly packed fire arm will not be.

This I will agree with. Although the risk is small, it could happen, and I personally rather not have a hole in a plane (or a person) at 35,000 ft. Guns have been fired in public bathrooms from the owner hanging it on the coat hook by the trigger guard and accidentally/negligently (one and the same in that instance...) pulling the trigger in the process.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
L-188
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 5):
Thankfully, TSA lacks arrest powers.

Thank god, not one of those morons are the sharpest tools in the shed.

Quoting BWI5OH (Reply 8):
Get a clue about a firearm and the safety mechanisms incorporated into them, than I may appreciate your comment a little more

A little harsh but I agree with the thought. I always feel I am arguing with an ignorant person especially if they have no exposure to firearms due to the draconian rules in the country (England, Australia just to single out a couple)

Quoting ua900 (Reply 11):
What should we do, ban forks and remove crash axes from aircraft?

Actually that was almost a reality after 9/11. That FedEx guy that went nuts years back was used to back that argument

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 15):
A parked car is not a danger to anyone around it

No I have never heard of a parking brake slipping and the car rolling into something or someone...

Quoting atct (Reply 20):
I carry a loaded gun on airplanes all the time...albeit it's Alaska and it's usually in a Cub or Beaver. What's the big deal?

Actually it was state law for a long time. It was changed after the Canadians (Cretian or however he spelled it) unfortunately set their firearm restrictions. It was felt that pilots where being put in legal issues on trans-border flights. We never should have changed the law.

quote=SKAirbus,reply=30]In the UK and Norway the woman would likely be in prison now had she been caught trying to smuggle firearms through security[/quote] What evidence do you have of intent?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Do you know how to stop home intruders? Pepper spray (I have it clipped to my wall by the door).

You know how you beat pepper spray, wear goggles and attack from upwind.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47):
Were the Sept 11 hijackers trying to smuggle box cutters or did they forget they had them?

Its a fair point to bring up that no banned items where ever attributed to the 9/11 hijackers.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 51):
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 50):It's a ridiculous proposition that turbulence would cause a firearm to discharge.
A badly packed fire arm could be discharged during turbulence. A properly packed fire arm will not be.

Agreed, but it is still a remote chance. You have to remember that firearms where originally designed as weapons of war and stand up to the rough handling of a combat environment and not discharge. I'm pretty sure none of us can say that a ladies handbag is a rougher environment than Khe-Shan, Bastone, Stalingrad, Okinawa....ad nausum
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fr8mech
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 53):
Guns have been fired in public bathrooms from the owner hanging it on the coat hook by the trigger guard and accidentally/negligently (one and the same in that instance...) pulling the trigger in the process.

That is a different circumstance. Someone intentional places a rigid item in the trigger guard. I suspect that it is not the weight of the gun that pulls the trigger, it was (is) the handling of the firearm. Force was exerted against the trigger as the firearm was hung or removed.

Either way, stupidity.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 53):
Although the risk is small,

It is infantismal. That even severe turbulence would cause a firearm to discharge is ridiculous.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
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seb146
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 50):
Because I understand safe handling of a firearm. A firearm discharges because it is handled. Turbulence does not "handle" a firearm.

It's a ridiculous proposition that turbulence would cause a firearm to discharge.

Isn't this a similar argument for "good guys with guns" as the reason everyone needs to be armed to the teeth when they walk to the corner market?

A gun in checked baggage with a round in the chamber the NRA member "forgot" about. During turbulence, a pen works it's way to the trigger and the gun discharges.

Oh, but that never happens because it is only responsible gun owners that are out there always. Anyone who allows this to happen is not a responsible gun owner nor part of NRA. Or some strange argument, right?
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fr8mech
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RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 56):
A gun in checked baggage with a round in the chamber the NRA member "forgot" about. During turbulence, a pen works it's way to the trigger and the gun discharges.

Do you have a link to this incident?

Oh, but let's see how many failures occurred in your scenario:

1. A loaded firearm in checked baggage
2. The firearm was not in a locked case, else there would not have been a pen inside the trigger guard
3. TSA or airline failed to ensure the firearm was packed in accordance with federal regulations

Quoting seb146 (Reply 56):
Isn't this a similar argument for "good guys with guns" as the reason everyone needs to be armed to the teeth when they walk to the corner market?

You have really stopped making sense on the issue. What does carry in a market have to do with the far-fetched idea that simple turbulence will cause a firearm to discharge if it is left in a purse?
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
BestWestern
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:57 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 54):
. I'm pretty sure none of us can say that a ladies handbag is a rougher environment than Khe-Shan, Bastone, Stalingrad, Okinawa....ad nausum
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57):
The firearm was not in a locked case, else there would not have been a pen inside the trigger guard

This is what I was thinking of with my badly packed example above. Chances of occurrence I agree are low, but as you said earlier on - its not worth the risk.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Woman Tries To Board Flight At CRW With Loaded Gun

Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting bhill (Reply 42):
And you need to read his writings in MUCH greater depth...hence why most folks that are gung ho on the 2nd Amendment blow right by the "well regulated militia" part that he was arguing for in his papers.

I've written papers on Hamilton; I know a thing or two about what his writings said. It is logically unsound for a militia, one of whose roles is to be able to revolt against a government should the need arise, to be regulated by that very government. Federalist 29 is not so much a defence of private firearm ownership as it is a suggestion for a military establishment that did not come to fruition quite as described. With that being said, much of what Hamilton writes as rationale for a casual militia applies equally as rationale for an armed populace. Just because the successive sentence is "while the particular States are to have the sole and exclusive appointment of the officers" does not undermine "Where in the name of common-sense, are our fears to end if we may not trust our sons, our brothers, our neighbors, our fellow-citizens? What shadow of danger can there be from men who are daily mingling with the rest of their countrymen and who participate with them in the same feelings, sentiments, habits and interests?" which precedes it.

I'll admit that noting Hamilton was hasty of me; his ideals do not coincide quite as well to the point I was making as Madison did in No. 46.

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