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Aesma
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Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:25 am

When many people come over, family or friends, how do you manage things so that people who drive are not drunk ?

Tonight we will be 24 at my parent's home and only a few will stay over. We have 2 cases of champagne and tons of wine. I'm sure some guests will bring more, with some 60% grappa from the country to top it off.

Some of them have lost their driver's license before (a pain in France to get it back), but don't seem to learn.

How do you do it ?
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JJJ
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:42 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
How do you do it ?

Good old designated driving and taxis.

There's no other way really.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:53 am

Big quandary isn't it ?

On the one hand it's their life, if they want to run the risk of losing their licence especially if they have done it before, they deserve any punishment that ensues, on the other hand what if they kill/maim an innocent 3rd party on their way home ?

Personally I wouldn't run the risk of providing alcohol to anyone who had abused it before, if they persisted drop them from the invite list.

On a separate note how severe is the punishment in France, I know you have a far lower alcohol limit than here in England as Scotland has recently lowered their's to something around yours.

In the UK a 1st offence even if just over the limit is a 12 month driving ban with no get outs, with a longer ban likely if say 1.5 times over and so on. Repeat offences will see at least 18 months or even 3 years off the road. There will also be a fine dependent on income probably starting in the region of £200.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:58 am

To be honest, nobody in my family or circle of friends would even think about risking it. If one did try and be stupid, we'd not let them leave until sober.

And with good reason. Going back many decades (1960s) a relative's son and friend drove back from Birmingham after a night out. They had a fast car and were incredibly drunk. The two of them died when, ironically, they lost control and impacted the gates of a hospital just outside Warwick.


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frostyj
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:15 pm

Um we don't manage anything. Everyone is mature enough to not drink and drive.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:44 pm

Simple, don't have it.
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falstaff
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:17 pm

Everyone is an adult. If they want to drink and drive they can take that risk. Most of my friends and family are serious drinkers so we have an understanding that if you get too boozed up you can stay the night. I stay a friend's houses a lot and they stay at mine. After a night of drinking we get up in the morning and go have a big "hog slopper" breakfast.
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JRadier
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:19 pm

With family it hasn't been an issue so far, but with friends I have misplaced car keys more than once.. only to find them the next day  
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:28 pm

Personally I don't drink much. My stomach really doesn't do alcohol very well and nobody in my family is irresponsible enough to even attempt drinking and driving at the same time.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
On a separate note how severe is the punishment in France, I know you have a far lower alcohol limit than here in England as Scotland has recently lowered their's to something around yours.

The limit is 0,80 g/L of alcohol in the blood or 0,40 mg/L of alcohol in the breath.

You lose 6 points on your license (out of a maximum of 12) here and there, then you get a court date and the fine and sentence will vary.
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zckls04
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:04 pm

I usually tell people that when it's going to be a boozy night I expect them to take public transport or have a designated driver. I have it written on the invitation or email. Here in the US you could potentially get sued (probably unsuccessfully, but not worth the risk) if you as the host served too much alcohol to somebody who then went on to kill somebody with their car, so you need to be a little careful.

If somebody's staggeringly drunk obviously you take away their keys; I'd hope anybody would do that no matter what the social consequences. For people who have had one or two, if you see they are driving just ask them if you need to call a cab as they are leaving.

In the end though, people will do dumb things, and you can only do so much to protect them.
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gordonsmall
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:36 pm

If they drink and drive, and get caught, that is their problem.

Why do you feel it is your place to control the alcohol consumption and actions of grown adults?  
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fr8mech
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 4):
Everyone is mature enough to not drink and drive.

Agreed. But i have no issue telling someone that, as far as I'm concerned, they're cutoff. I haven't done it in a long time. Normally, as the party winds down, I get the coffee out.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
If they want to drink and drive they can take that risk.

Spoken like someone who has never cut another person out of a car for the simple reason that another person choose to drive drunk.

Im a personal responsibility guy, but someone that gets into a car, while intoxicated, is putting the public at risk, not just themselves.

And, as a part of personal responsibilty, i take my responsibility as a host to ensure the safety of my guests seriously.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
Most of my friends and family are serious drinkers so we have an understanding that if you get too boozed up you can stay the night.

I can't tell you how many times I've had folks stay over after a party. Of course, as we get older, those times are getting fewer and further in between.

Honestly, it's a tough call and really depends on the relationship you have with these folks.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 10):
In the end though, people will do dumb things, and you can only do so much to protect them.

Ive gone so far as to drive folks home. But, I agree, sometimes you will have no choice but to let them go. I will not physically restrain someone. My police buddies might, but I won't.

By the way, I'd be careful with the line of thought that, as a host, you bear no responsibilty.
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zckls04
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
By the way, I'd be careful with the line of thought that, as a host, you bear no responsibilty.

Is that the impression you got from that post? If so it certainly wasn't intended.
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WestJet747
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
We have 2 cases of champagne and tons of wine. I'm sure some guests will bring more, with some 60% grappa from the country to top it off.

What time should I arrive?  
Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
How do you do it ?

I don't know if this is available where you live, but when we host get-togethers we purchase booklets of taxi vouchers from one of the taxi companies. We hand them out to anyone we think may have had one too many to ensure they get home safe.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 11):
Why do you feel it is your place to control the alcohol consumption and actions of grown adults?

Because it's his party and he doesn't want his friends and family leaving drunk and getting behind the wheel of a car?  
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gordonsmall
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 14):
Because it's his party and he doesn't want his friends and family leaving drunk and getting behind the wheel of a car?

What he wants and what he's entitled to do are two very different things. There are aspects I would like to change about my friends and adult family members, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I am somehow entitled to tell them how to live their lives.

Having someone in your life means you accept all their qualities and flaws, otherwise you remove them from your life. Insisting that people mould their behaviours to fit what you think is acceptable smacks of a control freak on a power trip.
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zckls04
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 15):
Having someone in your life means you accept all their qualities and flaws, otherwise you remove them from your life. Insisting that people mould their behaviours to fit what you think is acceptable smacks of a control freak on a power trip.

Drunk driving is not unacceptable to a particular person, it's just unacceptable full stop. If you are serving alcohol to your guests you bear some responsibility if you let them leave stumbling with car keys in their hand. Abdicating that responsibility to avoid social awkwardness later is an act of cowardice IMO.
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gordonsmall
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 16):
Drunk driving is not unacceptable to a particular person, it's just unacceptable full stop

I agree, but thats not really the point.  
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 16):
If you are serving alcohol to your guests you bear some responsibility if you let them leave stumbling with car keys in their hand.

Maybe under the perverse, communist legal system overbearing the residents of North America where everyone who screws up is too busy looking for someone else to blame, but in the rest of the world we still practice the mantra that adults should take responsibility for their own actions.

Where does the liability end in your screwed up world? Should the supermarket who sold me the alcohol accept responsibility for not vetting my actions in respect of my party guests? Should the manufacturer be sued for not insisting that the supermarket force me into controlling the lives of my guests? Should the government just ban alcohol altogether in the basis that some people are unable to take responsibility for their actions whilst intoxicated?
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 15):
What he wants and what he's entitled to do are two very different things. There are aspects I would like to change about my friends and adult family members, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I am somehow entitled to tell them how to live their lives.

It's his bloody party. He can run it the way he wishes. If his friends and family don't like the way he runs his party, they can be shown the door.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 15):
Having someone in your life means you accept all their qualities and flaws, otherwise you remove them from your life.

Hardly. If I have a friend with a drinking problem, I'm not going to remove them from my life, I'm just not going to enable them.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 16):
If you are serving alcohol to your guests you bear some responsibility if you let them leave stumbling with car keys in their hand.

I completely agree on a moral level, but it doesn't always apply on a legal level.
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zckls04
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
I agree, but thats not really the point.

It is, because you're abdicating your responsibility by claiming that to stop a very drunk person getting in his car would be "arrogant" because you were somehow imposing your moral law on him.

Since you agree that moral law is universal, that argument doesn't hold water.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
Maybe under the perverse, communist legal system overbearing the residents of North America where everyone who screws up is too busy looking for someone else to blame, but in the rest of the world we still practice the mantra that adults should take responsibility for their own actions.

Actually the laws are very similar. But in this case I'm talking more about your responsibilities as a human being. You shouldn't need to be coerced into doing the right thing.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
Should the supermarket who sold me the alcohol accept responsibility for not vetting my actions in respect of my party guests?

Not unless they knew you were going to drunk drive.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
Should the manufacturer be sued for not insisting that the supermarket force me into controlling the lives of my guests?

Not unless they knew you were going to drunk drive.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
Should the government just ban alcohol altogether in the basis that some people are unable to take responsibility for their actions whilst intoxicated?

Not unless they knew you were going to drunk drive.

Pretty simple really. Slippery slope arguments usually are.

Let's try an extreme argument. If somebody you know to be mentally unstable tells you they are going to commit a murder, and you do nothing about it, and the next day they commit said murder, do you not believe you bear any responsibility for the death? Not even 0.1%, with the killer bearing the other 99.9?

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 17):
adults should take responsibility for their own actions.

Sometimes responsibility for things is shared, both in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of most people. Being a small part responsible for failing to stop an event in no way precludes somebody else from being responsible for that event too. Consider an airline crash- is it always a sole party responsible for the tragedy? Does a pilot who makes a mistake bear sole responsibility, or does the airline bear some responsibility for not training him?

Things aren't as black and white as you think they are.
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seb146
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:53 am

I stay home. That way I don't have to worry about driving drunk and I also don't have to deal with in-laws.
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Airstud
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:57 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
a pain in France to get it back

I am going to start referring to anything problematic or frustrating as "a pain in the France."  
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flyingturtle
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 11):
Why do you feel it is your place to control the alcohol consumption and actions of grown adults?

All adult occupants of a car can be punished for letting a person drive while knowing he or she is unfit to drive. And there may always be a punishment for injuries and deaths caused by negligence, although the threshold of when to intervene and take the keys away is difficult to say. A drunk person is not a "grown adult" until he's sober again.

I love the people who celebrate with me and family, and I don't want their smashed cars found the next day, down in the cold river, in the very rural area we celebrate Christmas.

Luckily, in our family we never drink much, and I abstain from friends who don't plan for the "I'm too drunk to drive home" contingency.


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Aesma
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:56 am

Well at least the younger generation is more responsible, my brother and his girlfriend took a cab home, must have cost a fortune too since they live on the other side of Paris from here, and it was Christmas eve.
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planewasted
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:06 am

This problem will be solved when the self driving cars are ready.  

I'm happy that it is totally socially unacceptable to drink and drive in my country.
 
JJJ
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RE: Family Reunions, How Do You Deal With Alcohol?

Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Well at least the younger generation is more responsible,

So true, I remember my father getting pretty drunk then driving us home (my mother didn't have a license back then) or even going with my uncles for another drink somewhere and coming back in an even worse state.

And guess what, it was something to laugh about. No one thought about the danger of driving on that state until a very famous don't drink and drive ad campaign by Stevie Wonder.

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