King Abdullah Of Saudi Arabia Dies Aged 90

Pyrex · Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:41 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
I struggle to see how this could be possible there are only 1.2 million living in the entire country.

They brought in people from Dagestan and other muslim republics around it. I don't know if it was 800,000 people but it was easily several hundred thousand people - just google the photos and take a look for yourself.

SOBHI51 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:53 pm

Quoting na (Reply 48):

I can say the same about Netanyahu.

SOBHI51 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting na (Reply 45):
My best friend recently stayed a few weeks there on business. He is a well-travelled manager and he says its the most boring and restricted, unhappy country he has ever been to.

Well let's see, there no movies theaters, night clubs,alcohol nor gambling and unless you are interested in soccer there is not much fun for a single foreigners to enjoy.
Now, there are compounds where foreigners with families lives that's another story, mixed swimming pools, some alcohol, movies and night clubs, usually Saudi's are only allowed by invitation.
As for Saudi's there usual fun time is spent with there family.
We have also over 600 hundred TV stations via ONS, with programs from the USA shown the next day after them, some films shown are R rated, plus Bein sport channels, we get live soccer match's from Europe, south America, American football live usually around 4am, live tennis and even live Golf, for sports we are spoiled.
So there always a way not to be bored.

[Edited 2015-01-23 05:09:22]

na · Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:07 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 51):
I can say the same about Netanyahu.

I am not a fan of this guy either. He, and the other rightwingers in Israel are not that much better than their opponents as they say they are.

Superfly · Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 44):
since you limit the task to a small region of the world.....

Well of course. It was in response to another member that was limiting the discussion to that part of the world. You need to read these comments more carefully.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 44):
sucks to sit in a glass house, doesn't it?

You tell us. You're the one throwing stones an defending those that throw stones.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
He's got you their Fly, the whores in Saudi are mostly kidnapped young Eastern European or Russian girls.

He would have "got me" if it were true. Most of the whores here are rail thin. Really sad about the kidnapped Eastern European in Saudi Arabia.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 50):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
I struggle to see how this could be possible there are only 1.2 million living in the entire country.

They brought in people from Dagestan and other muslim republics around it. I don't know if it was 800,000 people but it was easily several hundred thousand people - just google the photos and take a look for yourself.

Would those 800,000 be considered 'peace-loving' since they didn't actually kill anyone?

zkojq · Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 37):
Sorry, but I'm calling BS. The population of Chechnya is ~1.2 million and the population of Grozny is ~270,000. If your statistic is true then nearly three times the population of Grozny turned up, equivalent to 2/3rds of all Chechens.

According to The Guardian the number is in the tens of thousands. Regardless of how many were or weren't there, I find Ramzan Kadyrov's comments laughably ironic. One of the world's biggest gangster playing pious.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...test-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-grozny

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
There is a difference and an obvious one.

Regardless, the practice is barbaric.

Quoting na (Reply 45):
Hitler, Mao and Stalin, which were by far the most responsible for war and terror deaths in the 20th century, were no Christians and were leading virtually atheistic regimes!

Quoting na (Reply 45):
Old man follows old man follows old man.

In KSA the throne goes across the bloodline, rather than down it. So their monarchy started with Ibn Saud who 'unified'* KSA in the 30s, then the throne gets passed on to his oldest living son, to his next oldest living son and so on. Ibn Saud had over 20 wives and more than 40 sons (which today means that there are over 4,000 princes), so the system of succession pretty much ensures that the monarch is going to be very old. And therefore probably very conservative.

*whereby 'unified' means that he slaughtered anyone opposed to him.

Quoting na (Reply 48):
His fascistic views seem to be backed by a large part of the turkish people. Very worrying.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
there's plenty of illegal gambling

[Edited 2015-01-23 06:25:53]

einsteinboricua · Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 20):
As for public executions and and the chopping of the hands well KSA have strict laws for murderer, children rapists and terrorists, as for robbers they will only get there left hand chopped after being convicted a third time.
KSA is the only country where a murderer can be pardoned if the family of the victim accept to pardon.

Still, that's something about the kingdom that really places a big red flag. While the kingdom may still live in medieval times, it's also the 21st century. It should reform its punishment laws and at lease bring basic law other than the Quran. Iran has basic law based on it.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
So whether you believe the King and KSA are so terrible, the worlds leaders aren't shy in having there pictures taken with then either

Because the Gulf monarchies have black gold. Otherwise, do you think they'd be there? How many leaders have taken a picture with the king of Swaziland?

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 25):
Would I be allowed to keep my Christian cross I wondered?

Saudi Arabia is strict in that sense. Anything not Islam related is confiscated, so no.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 25):
gambling, women, booze

Interesting. I know Dubai caters to foreigners and has set up places where Islamic law does not apply (hence, there can be alcohol), but I thought the rules were waived only for tourist not from the Gulf monarchies?

Quoting na (Reply 45):
North Korea aside, is there a more restricted country on this planet than Saudi Arabia?

How about Vatican City? When was the last time there was a 30 year old Pope? In a way that's why I feel the Vatican's selection is VERY outdated. This idea of elevating the Cardinals when they're one step away from death (see the year of the three popes) is rather ludicrous. The fact that Cardinals are only appointed after a lengthy period doesn't help things either. For more info, look for CGP Grey's How to become Pope on YouTube.

casinterest · Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:58 pm

And another old King dies. Long live the new king.

Sigh. As long as the oil flows, and the Saudi's play nice in the big sandbox, not much will change. The New King is a direct brother of Fahd from what I understand. So I would expect many of the policies will not change much , other than to possibly regress.

DeltaMD90 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:02 pm

I can't help but wonder what Saudi Arabia would look like without the current ruling family. Would it get better and more democratic or would it become another Islamist hotbed?

I'm not one to support dictators (and I'm not a fan of the Saudi royal family) but after seeing the mess some of the former dictatorships have become, it makes me wonder......

Chaostheory · Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 56):
Anything not Islam related is confiscated, so no.

Stop propagating myths.

You are allowed to bring Bibles into the country.

One of our American 777 captains carries one in his flight bag.

As long as he doesn't start shouting "Jesus Christ, hallelujah, praise the Lord" in public, there are no issues whatsoever.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 58):
I'm not one to support dictators (and I'm not a fan of the Saudi royal family) but after seeing the mess some of the former dictatorships have become, it makes me wonder......

The Saudis don't want democracy.

[Edited 2015-01-23 08:06:29]

If you want to know what Saudi would probably look like with democracy, take a look at Yemen.

[Edited 2015-01-23 08:09:17]

casinterest · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 59):
Stop propagating myths.

You are allowed to bring Bibles into the country.

One of our American 777 captains carries one in his flight bag.

But they will be confiscated if visible. IE , the 777 captain must leave the bible in his bag until he gets to his private room/compound. You also cannot distribute them.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 58):

I can't help but wonder what Saudi Arabia would look like without the current ruling family. Would it get better and more democratic or would it become another Islamist hotbed?

It would be a dictatorship. Too much oil and too much riding on obtaining full control of the oil.

scbriml · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 56):
I know Dubai caters to foreigners and has set up places where Islamic law does not apply (hence, there can be alcohol), but I thought the rules were waived only for tourist not from the Gulf monarchies?

It's not uncommon to see Arabs drinking in hotel bars. And I don't mean coffee.

Superfly · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:52 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 61):
It's not uncommon to see Arabs drinking in hotel bars. And I don't mean coffee.

Not all Arabs are Muslim.

Kiwirob · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting na (Reply 48):
But Turkey is a democracy and Erdogan has been elected by the people. And not just once. His fascistic views seem to be backed by a large part of the turkish people. Very worrying.

I think he's almost ready to declare himself President for Life.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 56):

How about Vatican City? When was the last time there was a 30 year old Pope?

When was the last time there was a 30 year old Bishop, get a few of those and you're in witha chance of a 30 year old Pope. The difference is Popes tend to have worked there arses off on the way up to being Pope, I very much doubt a Saudi Prince has half the work experience of a bishop.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 61):
It's not uncommon to see Arabs drinking in hotel bars. And I don't mean coffee.

It's well known fact that when the wealthy leave the Middle East they also leave Islam back at home and turn into wild party animals who do all the things they can't do at home when they are away. Homosexuality, women, booze, drugs, stuff they would get into serious trouble back home they can do with impunity in London, New York, Paris, Milan, Berlin, Vienna. LA..........

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
Not all Arabs are Muslim.

Most are.

TheCommodore · Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Apparently you are.

Really ?

I thought I'd just made you aware, that the execution rate of the KSA was, not that different from the US. (in terms of numbers in the year 2000 It has gone down since.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Mr. Commodore; you DO realize you sound more extreme than a Tea Party member in the US. I'll remind you of your statement in the next anti-US thread.

Well, apparently it works for them. Just like the "death penalty"... apparently work for the Americans.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
I noticed petrol was more expensive this morning, not that the price of petrol droped at all over the past few months.

So did I !

Quoting na (Reply 48):
Very worrying.

No more so than that other "despot" Bibi Nethaynu in Israel.

Quoting na (Reply 53):
He, and the other rightwingers in Israel are not that much better than their opponents as they say they are.

Not wrong there

Quoting Superfly (Reply 54):
Most of the whores here are rail thin.

Probably because there contaminated with some sort of VD they've picked from some filthy westerner.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 56):
Because the Gulf monarchies have black gold.

Am aware why. But if your so cozy with someone who's so bad... then it makes it VERY difficult when you ask then to "reform their ways" now doesn't it ?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 57):
So I would expect many of the policies will not change much , other than to possibly regress.

"regress" .... Why ?

I thought the pervious king and made great inroads in reforming things.

I believe there are now more women in higher education than men. so thats a good thing, and theres much more to do.

[Edited 2015-01-23 13:04:15]

casinterest · Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:34 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 64):

"regress" .... Why ?

I thought the pervious king and made great inroads in reforming things.

I believe there are now more women in higher education than men. so thats a good thing, and theres much more to do.

Because ISIS to the north and Yemen to the south are showing that Saudi Arabia is in danger of extremism taking over.

Couple that with the fact that the hardliners already think the reforms have gone to far, and the fact that oil is going to plummet which will leave less cash on the table to effect the work programs that have kept Saudi's content during the last 10 years.

They may keep the status quo, but it will be tough.

scbriml · Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
Not all Arabs are Muslim.

Of course not, but the ones I'm talking about most certainly are.

Aesma · Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:18 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
a leader loved by his citizens not fear him is not a dictator.

You can't know if he's loved or not since criticizing him leads to torture, imprisonment, death, or a combination of the three. Pretty standard for a dictatorship.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
Yes only, that's why we have low crime rates.

No, that's why crimes are not reported. The rapist or murderer just pays off the family of the victim.

LFutia · Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 35):
Oil price is going up ...

Well gas prices are stable here. I was able to still fill up for 50 cents a liter / 1,89 a gallon.

Leo/ORD

SOBHI51 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:19 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 69):
No, that's why crimes are not reported. The rapist or murderer just pays off the family of the victim.

All crimes are reported, in cases like children rape and premeditated murder crime a family can not pardon the criminal.

Aesma, i am one of the people and i know how others feel towards the late king, specially women and i can say for sure that he was loved and respected by the majority of the Saudi's.

[Edited 2015-01-24 06:24:02]

pvjin · Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:49 pm

Great video from BBC regarding Saudi Arabia, I totally agree with the message:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d85pW6TzH8

SOBHI51 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 72):

You can or can't agree with the laws of the country, but Raef was warned few times that his writings were against the law, in any country you brake the law you are punished whatever the rest of the world might think, remember that American youth in Singapore who was also lashed for writing graffiti's?

BTW if that guy on BBC thinks that Saudi will be blackmailed by not allowing buying arms from the UK, there are other countries who are ready to sell them better arms, France, Russia and China.

pvjin · Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 73):

Yeah, probably he should have emigrated to free world and published his criticism there.

MD11Engineer · Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 55):
Ibn Saud had over 20 wives and more than 40 sons (which today means that there are over 4,000 princes), so the system of succession pretty much ensures that the monarch is going to be very old. And therefore probably very conservative.

As far as I know, he was married to a maximum of four living wives at any given time.

One thing many people don't understand is how important tribal loyalties are and how powerful the (often very conservative) tribal chiefs are in Saudi Arabia. The king has to walk very carefully as not to upset these chiefs, who else will topple him.
Hence the reforms at baby steps speed. Abdullah has been using public outrage e.g. at the religious police at times to curb their powers (e.g. after they forced female teachers and students back into a burning boarding school at night because they were not dressed according to the rules, many of the girls and teachers died in the flames, or at another time when an old man was beaten tio death because he wasn't in the Mosque during prayer hours).

Jan

tailskid · Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:49 pm

Forbes pretty much sums up my take on this:

For people living in dictatorships and hoping for Western support on the road to freedom, reactions to the death of Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah has been a rude awakening. It was to be expected that the passing of an important geo-political ally would be met with niceties and platitudes. But rather than courteous condolences, Western leaders have queued up to eulogize the late King with groveling and outright mendacious statements that border on Orwellian doublespeak.

Take U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry who on Twitter called King Abdullah a man of “wisdom,” “vision” and mourned that the world had “lost a revered leader.” We are talking here about the absolute ruler of a country, which according to Freedom House, scored the lowest possible ranking on respect for both civil liberties and political freedom (vying for worst dictatorship in the world with North Korea). In 2013, a democracy activist was sentenced to eight years in prison for “slandering the King”—a bespectacled old man who happened to be called Abdullah.

In Britain David Cameron emphasized the late King’s “commitment to peace and for strengthening understanding between faiths” and that his “thoughts and prayers are with the Saudi Royal Family and the people of the Kingdom.” It is a good thing then that Cameron lives in Britain and not in Saudi Arabia. Because unless Cameron was to convert to Wahabist islam, he would in fact be arrested for praying in the Kingdom, which also bans churches and bibles and, as late as last year, arrested 28 Christians for the crime of congregating in a private home. Apparently, such religious intolerance merits respect by the very religions whose members are being brutally persecuted. London’s spectacular Westminster Abbey led the way by flying the flag at half mast in respect of Abdullah. Of course being Muslim does not suffice to escape Saudi Arabia’s religious intolerance. Liberal saudi blogger Raif Badawi recently received the first 50 of 1,000 lashes for the crime of “insulting Islam” through his calls for separation of state and religion.

As for Abdullah’s supposed commitment to peace—it is worth remembering that Saudi Arabia reacted to the so-called Arab Spring by initiating a brutal counter-revolution, sending tanks into the streets of Bahrain’s capital Manama to crush the popular uprising against that country’s Sunni rulers. At home, Saudi Arabia moved quickly to quell any uprising by locking up would be protesters, further limiting avenues of dissent and appeasing any restiveness in the general population with generous benefits paid by its oil wealth. In Syria, Saudi Arabia has contributed to radicalizing the Syrian uprising against Bashar Al-Assad by arming extremist jihadist rebel groups sympathetic to and sometimes fighting side by side with Al-Qaeda groups and IS. More generally, the Wahabist ideology strictly imposed on Saudi society has been exported to all corners of the world creating extremists—some of them violent—in previously moderate Muslim communities from Asia to Africa, and even in the very West, whose leaders now praise the King.

Not to be outdone by Kerry or Cameron, IMF chief Christine Lagarde, without any hint of irony, labelled Abdullah “a strong advocate of women.” King Abdullah the suffragette, would be the same Abdullah who presided over a country that prohibits women from driving and from leaving their house without a male guardian, where two women’s rights activists were sentenced to 10 month’s imprisonment for “undermining marriage” when they helped a woman who had been abused by her husband. A country where women such as Amina Nassar are beheaded for committing “sorcery” and “magic.”.................................

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...estern-leaders-sing-false-praises/

notaxonrotax · Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
Have no problem with that, i only wish some others are as nice.

You are pretty moderate yourself. While you defend things I don't agree with, you do not deserve any personal grief as you appear quite the gentleman.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
I think men here are full of fun, you should see them playing cards.

It must be a language thing as well.
Obviously I would't understand a single word they say.
But no, I haven't seen the laughter myself; to be honest.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 52):
Well let's see, there no movies theaters, night clubs,alcohol nor gambling and unless you are interested in soccer there is not much fun for a single foreigners to enjoy.

While I have heard about these compounds for expats, you probably see my point of the day to day life in the streets of the Kingdom appearing boring for foreigners such as myself.

I remember a residential neighborhood we pulled into:
Dusty deserted streets, and quite large houses all surrounded by huge walls!
No pedestrians, no paperboy doing his round, no children playing in the (quiet) streets, no music from anywhere; I guess you could say it lacked atmosphere. (I am sure the houses were very comfy inside though).

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 71):
You can or can't agree with the laws of the country,

Sure.
It is good to see you don't agree with these type of laws, reading between the lines; although you refrain from criticizing the Kingdom publicly.

As a general remark I would like to say that I hope the new King brings more reform!
It appears that the laws of Saudi do follow the Western world, they are just a few years behind.
(Women voting, good!)
So here's for more freedom of press, (terrible) women drivers to spice up the streets, a more lenient dresscode for women and a less harsh interpretation of Islam perhaps!

No tax On Rotax

King Abdullah Of Saudi Arabia Dies Aged 90

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