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icanfly
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US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:54 am

Frankly, this incident has made me embarrassed to be Australian. What kind of country is so viscerally fearful of a middle-aged American woman holding a few seminars on the risks of vaccines? An immature and insular one. Grow up, Australia!

For the record, I disagree with Dr Tenpenny's views, but the way to confront them is to spread corrective counter-information, not to intimidate her to the point where she no longer feels it's safe to come to Australia.

Probably the worst part for me is that Dr Tenpenny said she has not been subjected to this level of hostility in the US (see video), where she has been voicing her views for years. Fortunately for her, Americans have a more sophisticated understanding of freedom of speech. Yes, they accept that it's there precisely to allow unpopular or controversial ideas to be heard.

Thoughts?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-2...gner-cancels-speaking-tour/6053852

http://www.smh.com.au/national/healt...-of-australia-20150128-130qa4.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-OTm-QdaFk
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Acheron
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):

Frankly, this incident has made me embarrassed to be Australian. What kind of country is so viscerally fearful of a middle-aged American woman holding a few seminars on the risks of vaccines? An immature and insular one. Grow up, Australia!

It's not just holding a few semianrs on the "risks" of vaccines. It's spreading disinformation that might prove to be lethal to people, be them gullible or just plain ignorant.

She shouldn't be allowed to spread her idiocy around.

With that said, threatening people and events is not the way to go. Just use the legal means and be done with it.
 
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seb146
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:12 am

She is one of the leading "doctors" in the anti-vaxxer corner. I don't know how osteopath has anything to do with fighting polio and measles but, then, I am not a doctor of osteopathy....

http://scienceblogs.com/whitecoatund...2009/12/30/damned-lies-and-idiots/
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:12 am

I'm never for violence but you're always going to have trolls. I guess I'd have to know the nature of the threats, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the normal trolling anyone famous endures. Go comment on youtube for a few hours and I'm sure you'll get a few "death threats."

This wouldn't be the first time someone famous has whined about being concerned for safety when the threats are obvious trolls.

On the bright side, at least you won't have to listen to her drivel
 
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zckls04
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:13 am

She is a danger to public health. Can't say I'd be crying a river if she was giving my country a miss.

In any case anti-vax people are by their nature paranoid conspiracy theorists, and whenever conspiracy theorists are challenged using logic and reason their next step is ALWAYS an appeal to victimhood.

So pardon me if I take her claims of intimidation precisely as seriously as her scientific credibility.
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Gemuser
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:33 am

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):
Frankly, this incident has made me embarrassed to be Australian.

Why? Just because she encounters opposition to her views and cancels it's our problem???
The so called threats were unspecified and if real were undoubtedly from a few fringe nuts, which every country has. IMHO she is also skirting the line on acceptable freedom of speech because what she is saying HAS been repeatedly refuted and continuing to say it is causing a public health threat, which you are NOT allowed to do under free speech laws/rule any where, even in the USA.

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Francoflier
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:35 am

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):
An immature and insular one. Grow up, Australia!

Well, you are insular...
 
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Airstud
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 1):
It's not just holding a few seminars on the "risks" of vaccines. It's spreading disinformation that might prove to be lethal to people

This.

There's a measles outbreak in southern California right now and there's at least one confirmed case in Minnesota (not sure if it's connected to Cal). We have the anti-vaxxers to thank for the situation in California.

I'd be proud to be Australian, or to be part of any country that boots this twit and her public-health-endangering taradiddle off into low Earth orbit.
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blueflyer
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:24 am

Not only is there no scientific evidence to back up any of her claims, but there is scientific evidence showing that what she peddles is junk. The outbreak mentioned in the post above has spread to 8 states and Mexico and started with unvaccinated individuals visiting Disneyland. The irony is that this outbreak is further proof that vaccines do work: 85% of the victims of this outbreak were not vaccinated. Regrettably, some of of the unvaccinated patients are babies too young to be vaccinated. For that, Dr Tenpenny and her followers are at best selfish imbecile, if not a threat to public health.

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):
Fortunately for her, Americans have a more sophisticated understanding of freedom of speech.

        
The courts, the ACLU and a few like-minded organizations do perhaps. Many Americans still erroneously believe freedom of speech means they can express whatever they want whenever they want however they want, while at the same time not extending the same courtesy to those of opposing view.
 
Kent350787
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:13 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
I'd be proud to be Australian, or to be part of any country that boots this twit and her public-health-endangering taradiddle off into low Earth orbit.

I am proud to be an Australian. There is no evidence that Tenpenny was threatened - the only direct threat that has been notified was made by an anti-vaxer, to bomb venues that had cancelled bookings.

Her "fear" is to gain some sympathy over a business decision to cancel fee paying seminars when venues cancelled bookings. Some venues have indicated they were misled over the nature of the seminars, others were more keen to avoid controversy. If threats were made by rational supporters of vaccination, they were to withdraw their own custom from those venues, and encourage others to do the same.

Tenpenny and her ilk seek to make money from spreading misinformation and peddling their own "cures" to the gullible. They present no evidence whatsoever that should turn a rational person from vaccination, but they may be able to convince gullible people, resulting in illness, pain and misery for their loved ones and others, as the Disneyland measles outbreak shows.

I'm happy for anti-vaxers to explain their position with defensible evidence. They have none.
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Airstud
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:32 am

Tenpenny apparently said, "We are not able to insure that the attendees would be safe from harm."

Alas, if only there were, in this perilous world, a way to keep the good people safe; safe from harm, safe from illness...

Wait a minute...

[Edited 2015-01-30 02:26:56]
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N328KF
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:51 am

She has the right to travel there, but she is a fool. This is a pair of articles that my wife wrote, about our son, for a pro-vaccination organization:

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/advocating-for-benjamin/
http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/why-measles-outbreaks-terrify-me/
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offloaded
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:12 pm

Why the heck you would subject your child to entirely preventable horrible diseases is, to me, as bad as the Taliban insisting the polio vaccine is anti-Islamic and not allowing people to have it. Polio was damn near eradicated, and now its back, putting the whole program back years.

Personally I'm glad this idiot isn't visiting Australia peddling her particular brand of horseshit. By her not going, lives may well be saved.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 10):
Wait a minute...

Exactly.
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ElanusNotatus
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:28 pm

So, reading between the lines, she failed to sell as many tickets as she had hoped so she has decided to cancel her vacation.

I noted that in one of the related links on the ABC site, it was revealed that one of the bookings made was stated to the venue management as being about SIDS.

Quote:
Mr Skinner said there was no indication it was an anti-vaccination booking when it was made.

"You know it was booked as a health and wellbeing seminar for a 'get rid of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome)' project," he said.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-0...ccination-tenpenny-seminar/6005088


If the organisers lie about that, how do we know anything else the Tenpenny crowd claim is true?
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zkojq
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:00 pm

Good riddance. She is literally a walking public safety hazard. I wonder how many lives her trip cancellation will save. My mum spent most of her career designing/engineering vaccines, so I have no time for people like this.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Not only is there no scientific evidence to back up any of her claims, but there is scientific evidence showing that what she peddles is junk.

What really annoys me is the way that these people genuinely believe that they're smarter than everyone else.

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 13):
decided to cancel her vacation

Vacation? Seems like she actually makes a career out of this, which is sickening (pardon the pun).

[Edited 2015-01-30 05:18:42]
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usflyer msp
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:01 pm

Good for Australia! These anti-vaccine nuts enrage me.
 
4holer
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 10):
Tenpenny apparently said, "We are not able to insure that the attendees would be safe from harm."

Alas, if only there were, in this perilous world, a way to keep the good people safe; safe from harm, safe from illness...

Wait a minute...

Classic. Well done.
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StarAC17
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 1):
It's not just holding a few semianrs on the "risks" of vaccines. It's spreading disinformation that might prove to be lethal to people, be them gullible or just plain ignorant.

She shouldn't be allowed to spread her idiocy around.

Agree 100%, I remember in 6th grade the measles vaccine was manditory no ifs ands or buts.

The biggest drive for this anti-vaccine crowd is the very debunked fact that they are linked to autism. Where as I think we are just better at diagnosing it where in the past people with autism would be just considered crazy.

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):
Fortunately for her, Americans have a more sophisticated understanding of freedom of speech. Yes, they accept that it's there precisely to allow unpopular or controversial ideas to be heard.

Contreversal ideas can be discussed in Australia, I know because I lived there and as said free speech has limits even in the US. Futhermore free speech only protects the government from taking action against you, too many people think it means you can say anything you want and we don't have right to disagree with you or insult you for your opinion.

You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, this is essentially an equivalent to that because of the public safety risk, you can't say that cigarettes are good for you on marketing materials (in fact you have to say that they can kill you), you can't say drinking and driving is not a risk and you cannot threaten a head of state.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 12):
Why the heck you would subject your child to entirely preventable horrible diseases is, to me, as bad as the Taliban insisting the polio vaccine is anti-Islamic and not allowing people to have it. Polio was damn near eradicated, and now its back, putting the whole program back years.

Haven't you heard, you can cure polio with vitamin C   .

This entire argument has to do with freedom and people often forget your freedom to shake your fist ends at my face and you can happly non-vaccinate your children but then they shouldn't be allowed in public because of the risk they present to others.
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blrsea
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:09 pm

Problem in many western countries is that many major diseases has been eradicated due to vaccines over the last few decades that many there really don't understand the pain and suffering people go through without these vaccines. Polio was eradicated fully in India in 2010. However, you can still see polio victims who can't walk properly because they weren't vaccinated as kids. Millions used to die of smallpox earlier, thanks to vaccination it is now eradicated. A person close to me, a kid, died of Hepatitis B many years ago. He would have been alive if he had been given vaccine for that. These days, many kids in India get hepatitis B vaccine, though not everyone.

One will appreciate vaccines if they see the suffering directly, which takes an emotional & financial toll on the families. I hope the measles outbreak will help open eyes of these skeptics.

I don't wish to see any kid suffering when there are medicines available to prevent it. It is the highest form of inhuman torture you can subject the kid to!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):
Probably the worst part for me is that Dr Tenpenny said she has not been subjected to this level of hostility in the US (see video), where she has been voicing her views for years. Fortunately for her, Americans have a more sophisticated understanding of freedom of speech. Yes, they accept that it's there precisely to allow unpopular or controversial ideas to be heard.

She's a liar, a risk to public health, and she should lose her license. She is not a "skeptic."

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 17):
This entire argument has to do with freedom and people often forget your freedom to shake your fist ends at my face and you can happly non-vaccinate your children but then they shouldn't be allowed in public because of the risk they present to others.

No, for some reason vaccines get the special pass.

*"I'm an expert on my child's nutrition and I will feed my newborn nothing but apple and carrot juice because we are vegans."
*"I'm an expert on my child's safety and my child will ride unrestrained in a car because seatbelts can cause injury."
*"I'm an expert on my child's behavior and development and my child will be chained to his bed in his room and beaten every day because the Bible says 'spare the rod and spoil the child.'"

These are all real cases. In case #1, the infant died and the parents went to jail. In case #2 the children were removed from the home. In case #3 it wasn't discovered until irreparable harm had been done but the kids were removed and the parents went to jail.

Your children are not your property. You should not have the right to expose them to the very real risks of death and lifelong disability on account of your needle-phobia (which is really what this is all about).

Quoting offloaded (Reply 12):
as bad as the Taliban insisting the polio vaccine is anti-Islamic and not allowing people to have it.

Strange bedfellows indeed.

I am a Board-Certified Pediatrician and a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics. My job is to know vaccines inside and out. They are so safe that the few "serious adverse events" can't even be convincingly tied to the vaccine. Did you know that the initial chicken pox vaccine had to list "femur fracture" as an adverse event in the insert because a kid broke his leg after getting one? That doesn't mean it caused it.

These people are far worse than flat-earthers. It's directly because of these people that we now have over 80 cases of measles in California. And watch, it will be polio next. Actually, I kind of welcome that because maybe that will be what it will take for Congress to finally throw down the gauntlet and remove all "religious" and "personal belief" exemptions.
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:24 am

AAAAaaand first case of measles has hit my county in a child who is not of school age. No further details.

Heeeeeere we go! I'm going on vacation and it seems like I picked the perfect time.

I have a couple of fragile preemies and a leukemia patient. This could get seriously ugly. If they need to get admitted to a hospital the logistical issues with infection prevention will be hideous.
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bluejuice
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:21 am

Several unvaccinated kids here in NorCal have caught measles. The anti-vaccine crowd are a menace and have set back decades of public health advances. My 6 month old son cannot receive the MMR vaccine until he is one year old. As a result, we are avoiding places with large crowds. How sad that millions around the world have no access to life saving vaccines while those that can get them stupidly choose to shun them due to the wiz-dumb of idiots like "Doctor" Jenny McCarthy.

[Edited 2015-01-30 21:24:55]

[Edited 2015-01-30 21:26:38]
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:16 am

Quoting bluejuice (Reply 21):
My 6 month old son cannot receive the MMR vaccine until he is one year old. As a result, we are avoiding places with large crowds.

If you really want, your kid can be vaccinated now at 6mo. However, he will need to be double-revaccinated with MMR at 12 and 13 months according to the 2015 ACIP guidelines (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/0-18yrs-combined-schedule-bw.pdf) and then revaccinated again at four years. It will double the number of doses of MMR he gets (although...what's the downside other than the two extra needles?)

Recommend you print that out, check footnote 9, and take it to your pediatrician to discuss.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:49 am

What has the anti-vax crowd been up to the last couple weeks? I'm sure they aren't reevaluating their position but instead, trying to craft up some BS about how it's not their fault and how these almost eradicated viruses popping up are... um, I can't even play devil's advocate. What can they say???
 
usflyer msp
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
What has the anti-vax crowd been up to the last couple weeks? I'm sure they aren't reevaluating their position but instead, trying to craft up some BS about how it's not their fault and how these almost eradicated viruses popping up are... um, I can't even play devil's advocate. What can they say???

They have been trying (quite unsuccessfully) to shift the blame onto illegal immigration. Nevermind, vaccinations are 100% mandatory and administered for free in Mexico (and most other countries in the Americas)....
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 24):
They have been trying (quite unsuccessfully) to shift the blame onto illegal immigration. Nevermind, vaccinations are 100% mandatory and administered for free in Mexico (and most other countries in the Americas)....

They also claim that 108 children have died of the measles vaccine in the last 10 years and zero children have died of measles.

Now, let's assume for a moment that the measles vaccine killed 108 children (that's horsedung but let's grant it for a moment), compare that to the 400+ (probably now more like 1500 given the current population and density) per year who used to die of measles. That means that there would have been 4,000 children dead of measles in the last ten years. As compared to 108 dead of the vaccine.

But 108 didn't die of the vaccine. They died after the vaccine, which is completely different. In the last ten years I found three which are "suspect" for being caused by the vaccine. Others include death by diabetic ketoacidosis, infectious meningitis, and diagnoses clearly not related to the vaccine like streptococcal sepsis.
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N328KF
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 24):
They have been trying (quite unsuccessfully) to shift the blame onto illegal immigration. Nevermind, vaccinations are 100% mandatory and administered for free in Mexico (and most other countries in the Americas)....

Keep in mind that there are a variety of categories of antivaxers, which have their own separate reasons, talking points, etc. For example, you have some who believe that they are flipping liberals (and Obama specifically) the bird. You have others that lump vaccines in with things like GMOs, who believe that they are keeping their bodies "pure." You have the people who believe (or at least openly give as their reason) that there is an autism connection. There are also the ones (celebrities or celebrity wannabes) who are using "the cause" to bring fame, notoriety, or money to themselves.

There are other categories too, and there are overlaps between some of them.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:51 pm

Thank God, and good riddance.

What I find terrifying is that there is enough of a market for her crap here that she considered coming in the first place. THAT is what makes us insecure, not some alleged threats that probably never took place. By the time the tour was "cancelled" almost every single venue had already cancelled.

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):

I'm very sorry, but this isn't about freedom if speech as much as deliberately spreading medical misinformation.

Thankfully we don't have constitutionally protected freedom of speech in this country. I personally think that is a good thing.
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bluejuice
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:05 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):

If you really want, your kid can be vaccinated now at 6mo. However, he will need to be double-revaccinated with MMR at 12 and 13 months according to the 2015 ACIP guidelines (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/0-18yrs-combined-schedule-bw.pdf) and then revaccinated again at four years. It will double the number of doses of MMR he gets (although...what's the downside other than the two extra needles?)

Recommend you print that out, check footnote 9, and take it to your pediatrician to discuss.

Thank you very much DocLightning. My wife and I will discuss with our pediatrician. We will likely wait until he is scheduled but we are glad to know there are options if the outbreak grows.
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting bluejuice (Reply 28):
Thank you very much DocLightning. My wife and I will discuss with our pediatrician. We will likely wait until he is scheduled but we are glad to know there are options if the outbreak grows.

That would be my recommendation if you brought your child to me with these questions, but, as I said, ask your pediatrician.
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ElanusNotatus
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:36 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
Thankfully we don't have constitutionally protected freedom of speech in this country.

The High Court has inferred a freedom of political communication primarily from sections 7 and 24 of the Constitution. These provisions require that members of the Parliament be 'directly chosen by the people'. The High Court found that for this to be an informed choice, there must be free access to relevant political information without limitation as to areas of public interest. To this extent there is limited "protected speech.

The Court has recognised that the implied freedom can be limited, or burdened, but only by laws that are reasonably appropriate and adapted to serving a legitimate end in a manner which is compatible with Australia's system of representative and responsible government. In the context of proposing changes to laws related to the provision of vaccines, it could be argued that however misleading or unfounded Tenpenny's views may be, her right to express those views would be protected.

Australia's freedom of speech legal framework does not rest entirely on the Constitution. Australia has adopted into law protections stemming from a number of International human rights treaties, notable among them the right to freedom of opinion and expression contained in articles 19 and 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

There are of course limitations, including laws prohibiting encitement to racial hatred, national security and libel for example.
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rfields5421
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:37 am

The most interesting line in the first article link to me is that they will be giving refunds to the people who bought tickets to attend her 'seminars'.

Sounds a lot more like a fund raising tour didn't sell well - so they needed some reason to cancel the tour.

So blame the 'opposition'.

Since I believe the woman, and her supporters, have no more credibility than ....... I choose to believe there were no threats - only the threat of losing money.
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n229nw
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:03 am

The anti-vax people really are a danger to society.

I have a not-totally-unrelated question for the Doc: I was vaccinated (of course) but still got measles when I was 5, along with at least one girl in my school who had also been vaccinated. How common is that?
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Airstud
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:43 am

I ain't no doc, but I have read that vaccine that was given in 1957 through 1968 wasn't as effective as the later ones. CDC says folks who were vaccinated in those years should talk to their doc about getting it re-done.
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opethfan
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:31 am

This is reminding me to speak to a doc about my own vaccinations. I moved a few times during my adolescence and as a result I've lost track of what shots I have and haven't had. It's something that I should get sorted sooner rather than later.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 32):
I have a not-totally-unrelated question for the Doc: I was vaccinated (of course) but still got measles when I was 5, along with at least one girl in my school who had also been vaccinated. How common is that?

Not common. Depends on how old you to say exactly how common. The first iteration of the vaccine was about 94% effective, IIRC.

The current vaccine is about 98% effective after two doses. Measles is 90% contagious. That means that if I take a room full of 1000 people who have had both doses and walk a contagious patient into the room, 90% or 900 of those people will be exposed. Of those 900, 2% or 18 of those people will develop symptomatic measles infection.

What most physicians are doing at this point is getting antibody titers on adults who are concerned about their immunity. I think that's a reasonable course of action, although my recommendation would simply be to revaccinate immunocompetent concerned adults, since there's little risk from doing so and less cost than testing everyone and then revaccinating the non-immune.

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 34):
This is reminding me to speak to a doc about my own vaccinations. I moved a few times during my adolescence and as a result I've lost track of what shots I have and haven't had. It's something that I should get sorted sooner rather than later.

All adults who have had their last tetanus booster >3 years ago should get a TdaP vaccine. This newer vaccine (trade names: BOOSTRIX and ADACEL) also contains the pertussis (whooping cough) acellular vaccine. The side-effect profile can be a bit rough on some people (sore arm, day or two of fever and malaise, usually quite responsive to OTC antipyretics like acetaminophen or ibuprofen) but given the fact that it can stop you from killing a baby by giving him whooping cough, I consider that a small price to pay.

Adults and adolescents 11-25 and anyone who lives in close living quarters (like military barracks or college dorm) should be vaccinated every five years with the quadrivalent meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MCV-4). Also, any adults with asplenia (no spleen) or HIV should get this vaccine. Adults and adolescents 11-25 should all be vaccinated with the quadrivalent or the new nonovalent human papilloma vaccine (HPV4 or HPV9) in the recommended three-dose series. Adults and adolescents with asthma should get the 23-valent pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine (PSV23) and possibly the 13-valent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV13). I believe adults over 65 are supposed to get PSV23 or PCV13 and I believe they are supposed to get the zoster (shingles) vaccine, but adults at that age are *way* out of my scope.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:50 pm

I guess I'm lucky - being born before 1957. I've had Measles, Mumps and Rubella as a child. It was not fun.

Basically our entire town school population came down with each disease over two winters. No one died. Many were miserable. Some still have scars. A couple eventually died young of some disease probably helped by a compromised immune system.

Recently discussed with my daughter and my son that they need to be checked by their doctors to evaluate the effectiveness of their vaccinations in 1975-77.

My daughter was a no-vaccine nut listening to dangerous idiots like the lady in question. Eventually she saw through the BS, and got her kids vaccinated. Thankfully.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 36):
My daughter was a no-vaccine nut listening to dangerous idiots like the lady in question. Eventually she saw through the BS, and got her kids vaccinated. Thankfully.

Here's the thing:

Why do we ban people from putting their kids in the car in regular seats...heck why do we have seatbelt laws, but we don't have vaccine laws?

If I get killed in an accident because I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I die. If I don't vaccinate my kid, my kid and other kids could die.

So why isn't this mandatory? Vaccinate your kids or lose them. Same as if you refuse to treat your kid's cancer or don't buckle your kid into an appropriate safety seat. You can get them taken away because you are recklessly endangering them. But vaccination is somehow different.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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N328KF
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:36 am

My wife was interviewed for the International Business Tribute (sister publication to Newsweek on antivaxers:

http://www.ibtimes.com/anti-vaccine-...dates-how-ask-about-childs-1803952
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:05 am

I do not get the so-far-left-they-almost-come-back-to-the-right Hollywood Cali types that say scientists must be correct about climate change and the data is correct, but then think scientists must be wrong about vaccines and the data is wrong.

Hypocrisy?...
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
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Aaron747
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:12 am

The fact that anyone in western countries subscribes to these bonkers 'skeptical' notions suggests general scientific knowledge has degraded to unacceptable levels.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:16 am

A personal judgment to not get your child vaccinated, until, my children and family and many, many others are endangered by those who spread the disease because they are not vaccinated. I was raised in the golden age of vaccines, and mass inoculations were enforced and accepted by those trying to protect their families and themselves. Is the return of Polio next? Very possible. I was raised in the Polio era, I do not want to see it return. Thank God for Dr. Salk and the many others who saved us from these scourges. Mississippi has the highest rate of inoculation by state Law. Almost 90 %.

[Edited 2015-02-03 18:48:31]

[Edited 2015-02-03 18:55:28]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
offloaded
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
So why isn't this mandatory?

It is here in Portugal. No vaccine paperwork, no admittance to school, and school attendance is mandatory.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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mad99
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 42):
It is here in Portugal. No vaccine paperwork, no admittance to school, and school attendance is mandatory

same here in spain
You get a small book for each child to be stamped and signed at each step
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 43):
same here in spain
You get a small book for each child to be stamped and signed at each step

Well in this country we have "freedom."

You know. We're "free" to bring back once eradicated diseases. We're "free" to recklessly endanger our children and other peoples' children.

What next, legalized biological terror?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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mad99
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
Well in this country we have "freedom."

maybe

credit scores for job interviews?

hair sample for drug tests for jobs?

background checks for everything..

a lot of that would never fly over here
 
PPVRA
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting icanfly (Thread starter):

In full agreement here. But it's not just in Australia, as this thread is evidence, ignorance and fear of speech is still wide spread.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
The fact that anyone in western countries subscribes to these bonkers 'skeptical' notions suggests general scientific knowledge has degraded to unacceptable levels.

A quick look in wikipedia suggests this isn't the first time vaccines have been involved in controversy. So not a new problem.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Kent350787
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
So why isn't this mandatory?

In Australia, vaccination status must be notified for preschool and (compulsory) school attendance. There are options for conscientious objection, which require the objector to have a GP certify they have been provided with all relevant information regarding the safety and benefits of vaccination.

Unvaccinated children can be excluded from school if there is a relevant risk or outbreak.

I personally believe that medical contraindication is the only valid reason for avoiding vaccination, given the astoundingly low personal risk for such a great personal and societal benefit. Vaccination has the full support of all Australian parliaments. No parliamentary member of a major party has opposed it.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 4):
In any case anti-vax people are by their nature paranoid conspiracy theorists,
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
So why isn't this mandatory? Vaccinate your kids or lose them.

Why do you have to be insulting of people who disagree with you, or threaten to take away their kids?

According to the CDC, the "anti-vax" people are correct. There is a chance (granted, a small one) that some of these vaccines can cause severe and permanent damage.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046738.htm

Quote:
the National Childhood Encephalopathy Study (NCES) and other controlled epidemiologic studies have provided evidence that DTP can cause acute encephalopathy (64-68). This adverse event occurs rarely, with an estimated risk of zero to 10.5 episodes per million DTP vaccinations (68)

For those who don't know, "acute encephalopathy" victims will often be wheelchair bound, unable to communicate, unable to feed himself, unable to walk, unable to even stand. The stats from the CDC say it happens to 1 in 100,000, and yes, the chance is extremely small, but what if it were your child? Are you to simply suck it up?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: US Vaccine Skeptic Cancels Australia Visit

Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 4):
In any case anti-vax people are by their nature paranoid conspiracy theorists, and whenever conspiracy theorists are challenged using logic and reason their next step is ALWAYS an appeal to victimhood.

So pardon me if I take her claims of intimidation precisely as seriously as her scientific credibility.

THIS!

Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
taradiddle

New favorite word! Thanks! 

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Many Americans still erroneously believe freedom of speech means they can express whatever they want whenever they want however they want, while at the same time not extending the same courtesy to those of opposing view.

Man, did you nail that one!

Quoting N328KF (Reply 11):
She has the right to travel there,

She does? based on what?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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