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1337Delta764
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Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:25 pm

I would like to know, for the U.S. based users here, does anyone have examples of past county splitting proposals in your state?

I know there is an ongoing movement to split Lake Havasu City from Mohave County, Arizona.

Also, in the past, former State Senator Russell Pearce has tried to split the East Valley of the Phoenix metro area from Maricopa County. All of the proposals included the cities and towns of Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek, with Mesa as the county seat. Some alternative proposals also added the City of Tempe, a few also added Scottsdale and even the Phoenix neighborhood of Ahwatukee. Some of the names thrown around for the proposed county included Red Mountain County, Rio Salado County, and even Orange County (mirroring the split of Los Angeles County and Orange County in California).

Ever since La Paz County split from Yuma County, Arizona has one of the strictest laws concerning county splits.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:49 pm

Well, there was the "Six Californias" nonsense.... that basically was an under-the-table way to spin off LAX/SFO from the rest of the state, and toss those four poorer areas to the wolves.

Obviously didn't pass.
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texan
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:07 pm

I seem to recall Killington, Vermont tried to secede from the state and join New Hampshire. Didn't turn out too well.

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seb146
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:20 pm

I didn't study California history in depth. I only moved here a few years ago. I know Wikipedia has good information on this.

The state I grew up in, Oregon, has seen many county splits. Pretty much everything in Oregon from the peaks of the Cascades to the Snake River was all Wasco County, at one point, and that was carved up to what we have today. There had been talk in Wheeler County of disbanding and awarding the land and towns to neighboring counties, because Wheeler County has such a small population and tax base. I have not heard much about that lately.
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Apparently in 2002, the House voted to allow Wendover (right on the NV border) to join Nevada instead, but it got shot down in the Senate. Then in 2008, a state representative proposed splitting Utah horizontally, which needless to say didn't happen either.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:37 pm

Just as a reminder, I am not referring to counties seceding from a state or joining other states, but single counties being split into two counties within the same state.
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tz757300
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:52 pm

I think you may find this interesting. There is a website dedicated to the historical splits and creations of each county within the US since its inception (and a bit before) in the form of a historical atlas. For each split, there is a blurb about why the boundaries changed.

http://publications.newberry.org/ahcbp/

Also, if you're interested in city-county consolidation, feel free to send a message.

[Edited 2015-02-02 16:01:42]
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1337Delta764
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 6):
I think you may find this interesting. There is a website dedicated to the historical splits and creations of each county within the US since its inception (and a bit before) in the form of a historical atlas. For each split, there is a blurb about why the boundaries changed.

http://publications.newberry.org/ahcbp/

Also, if you're interested in city-county consolidated governments, feel free to send a message.

Interesting. It doesn't appear to include more recent county splitting proposals, however, the site gives a nice history on different counties in each state.
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:52 am

For probably the past 50 years that I know of, there have been various proposals for the eastern part of Long Island to separate from Suffolk County and form a new county - Peconic County seems to be a favorite name in many of these proposals, but they never get much beyond talking.
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rfields5421
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:27 am

Most proposals to split counties will be shot down - because that would alter the existing political structure.

It could alter school district boundaries, legislative district boundaries, the county tax base and much more.

Many proposals to split off an area would result in one of the two new entities without a viable tax base.

Consolidation works better - but isn't always a good option.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
It could alter school district boundaries, legislative district boundaries, the county tax base and much more.

Here in Arizona school and legislative districts are mostly independent of city, town, and county boundaries, with several districts crossing into neighboring areas.
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):

Well, there was the "Six Californias" nonsense.... that basically was an under-the-table way to spin off LAX/SFO from the rest of the state, and toss those four poorer areas to the wolves.

Obviously didn't pass.

Oh yes. I remember this.... Wasn't the bills main supporter from Texas. IIRC, it was a conservative ploy to break up the massive electoral voting power that the state of CA holds
 
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 11):
Wasn't the bills main supporter from Texas.

Yup

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 11):
t was a conservative ploy to break up the massive electoral voting power that the state of CA holds

Can you blame him?

Every day, Texas gets more and more purple; due to coastal liberals following relocated companies + organic growth in the Hispanic population + immigration...... should Texas go blue, the GOP can forget about seeing the inside of the White House for even them most remotely foreseeable future.
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:52 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 10):
Here in Arizona school and legislative districts are mostly independent of city, town, and county boundaries, with several districts crossing into neighboring areas.

Oregon is the same way. Most of Umatilla County (where I grew up) and Morrow County was represented in Salem by Bob... someone. A small bit of Umatilla County was represented by someone else and a bit of Morrow County was represented by someone else entirely. Also, we would have people in my junior high and high school who only attended my school every other year because they went to the "other" school on off years because they lived between districts.
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:17 pm

maricopa county will not separate. plain and simple.


There's proposals here and there for Hamilton County and Cincinnati to separate a la St. Louis but they never go anywhere.
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:25 pm

Perhaps the most common reason to split counties is to separate the richer suburbs from mainly poor populated cities so the suburbs don't have subsidise the cities and keep their taxes down.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
Perhaps the most common reason to split counties is to separate the richer suburbs from mainly poor populated cities so the suburbs don't have subsidise the cities and keep their taxes down.

Some of the proposals to split Maricopa County included the affluent suburb of Scottsdale (as well Tempe, home of ASU) in the new proposed county, although the main proposal only included Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek. The poorer areas of the Phoenix area are primarily in south Phoenix, south Glendale, and the Phoenix neighborhood of Maryvale.
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slider
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Just as a reminder, I am not referring to counties seceding from a state or joining other states, but single counties being split into two counties within the same state.

It's interesting because there are some discussions swirling around here in Texas to actually CONSOLIDATE some counties, just the opposite of what you're noting.

There are some very sparsely populated and very rural counties in TX (there are over 250 after all!) and the cost of sustaining a full self-standing county government is onerous, hence the impetus to combine counties and thus be more efficient from a county government standpoint with costs. Makes sense.
 
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
It's interesting because there are some discussions swirling around here in Texas to actually CONSOLIDATE some counties, just the opposite of what you're noting.

Spent about 5 1/2 months this past year as a RV campground host in Brewster and Jeff Davis Counties.

9,232 population in Brewster County which is over five times the area of the state of Rhode Island.

2,342 population in Jeff Davis County which is almost twice the size of Rhode Island. The county seat - Fort Davis - is not even an incorporated city.
 
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):
Every day, Texas gets more and more purple; due to coastal liberals following relocated companies + organic growth in the Hispanic population + immigration...... should Texas go blue, the GOP can forget about seeing the inside of the White House for even them most remotely foreseeable future.

Errr...thats how Democracy works......

Or there is always gerrymandering.....
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:36 am

In California, Orange split off of Los Angeles County, and Riverside split off San Bernardino. Around 1970 there was a proposal for a Pomona County, mostly eastern LA County but also would have taken in parts of San Bernardino.
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N1120A
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:40 pm

I don't blame parts of the Phoenix area for wanting to split from Maricopa County. Get rid of that disgusting bigot sheriff.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 11):
Oh yes. I remember this.... Wasn't the bills main supporter from Texas. IIRC, it was a conservative ploy to break up the massive electoral voting power that the state of CA holds

Yes, it was a really bad attempt to hurt not only the electoral power, but also influence the Senate. The thought would be that the areas around Los Angeles and San Francisco would reliably have 2 Democrat senators, but "Jefferson," the Central Valley and the San Diego/Orange County conglomeration would be more likely to go Republican (kind of ignoring the shift in SD toward much more centrist and left of the US center politics). They actually had signature gatherers out lying about what would happen, claiming the state would not have to break up.

The Republicans proposed a 3 way split in the 80s. That would have bitten them in the butt now.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 20):
Around 1970 there was a proposal for a Pomona County, mostly eastern LA County but also would have taken in parts of San Bernardino.

They couldn't do that. L.A. County would need a new Fairgrounds  
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
I don't blame parts of the Phoenix area for wanting to split from Maricopa County. Get rid of that disgusting bigot sheriff.

Ironically, much of the East Valley (except Tempe) is where Joe Arpaio draws his greatest support. I assume if the East Valley were to split from Maricopa County they would want to keep Arpaio in their new county.
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BMI727
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):

Perhaps the most common reason to split counties is to separate the richer suburbs from mainly poor populated cities so the suburbs don't have subsidise the cities and keep their taxes down.

In St. Louis it was the opposite. The city cut off their boundaries to avoid paying for infrastructure farther afield. Then St. Louis County became prosperous, because oddly enough people tend to like large, relatively cheap housing and good schools, so now the mayor of St. Louis and a band of fools are desperately trying to achieve reunification so they can drag suburban money back into the city. (If you're wondering what the county is supposed to gain from this, the answer is nothing)
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N1120A
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:17 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
(If you're wondering what the county is supposed to gain from this, the answer is nothing)

I think St. Louis County has a lot more to worry about these days - like police murdering people and wiping their butts with the Constitution.
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BMI727
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
I think St. Louis County has a lot more to worry about these days - like police murdering people and wiping their butts with the Constitution.

I'd have to go find the stories, but I think most of the people who were arrested during the riots came out from the city.

And my opinion is that rather than reunification, St. Louis County itself needs to be split up. Have North County take everything north of I-70, West County between I-70 and I-44, and South County everything south of 44.
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N1120A
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:39 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
I'd have to go find the stories, but I think most of the people who were arrested during the riots came out from the city.

And the reporters who were beaten up and arrested?
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BMI727
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RE: Past U.S. County Splitting Proposals In Your State

Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:44 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
And the reporters who were beaten up and arrested?

I don't know where they were from, but you'll have to explain what that has to do with combining or splitting counties.
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