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solarflyer22
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:00 pm

He seems fairly qualified but getting elected is about raising money more than being qualified.

Jeb Bush's fundraising capacity through his family and connections will clobber these 2nd tier guys. Sheldon Adelson alone might pour in $100 million to his campaign. Walker isn't conservative enough to bring in the republican whales for funding.
Ditto for Koch brothers.

Maybe he'll do well and be chosen for VP. Socially progressive Republicans don't do well in primaries either.
 
BMI727
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
You only told half the story, but that's ok, you were at the oldest four when the bill was passed.

Not true.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
But if you're only going to cite the GLBA as a cause, it was not liberals who did it.

I don't, but others like to. But the liberals didn't fight it.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
More liberals/Democrats voted against it than Republicans.

That's not relevant. The vast majority of Democrats supported it.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
Unless you are a trust-fund baby (which you may very well be) the Koch brothers' policies will not benefit you.

I'm not, but those policies will benefit me. Far more than anything the Democrats offered.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
(did we learn nothing from Vietnam...),

Actually quite a lot, if you pay attention to how the start of the war in Afghanistan was executed.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
The Republicans just want to spend that money on different vote buying projects than the Democrats.

...on things the government actually has to do like defense. And infrastructure when it isn't able to be funded privately, however we just saw a Democrat president veto a bill approving privately funded infrastructure.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
And whatever savings will be nullified as you pay a larger and larger tax bill to pay for the $6 trillion dollar Bush era wars.

Not for me. And the entitlements dwarf the war spending, which for some reason keeps getting ignored.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 99):
If you are like most people, middle class, your numbers are shrinking and your earning potential less. Let us know how that goes when you start earning a real paycheque.

That's interesting because my very real paycheck says I'm very much part of the middle class. But then I hear the president propose tax cuts for the middle class that won't help me a bit, which leads me to think that he's full of it.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
luckyone
Posts: 3959
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 101):


Quoting BMI727 (Reply 101):
Not true.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 101):
That's interesting because my very real paycheck says I'm very much part of the middle class. But then I hear the president propose tax cuts for the middle class that won't help me a bit, which leads me to think that he's full of it.

Something is amiss about one of your claims...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 101):
But the liberals didn't fight it.

Obviously neither did your savior GOP...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 101):
Not for me. And the entitlements dwarf the war spending, which for some reason keeps getting ignored.

Unless you're as truthful in reporting your income as you are with your age claims I'd love to know how you think you're going to be absolved from paying taxes.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 92):
So what? In the great scheme of things, why's that matter?

Because I'm also an individual, and living with a gas mask or in a bubble, with far less biodiversity, is not my cup of tea, especially for 1000 years.

Expats making a killing in Beijing are currently leaving because they deem that money is not worth the degraded quality of life and reduced lifespan caused by the extreme pollution they experience.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 92):
How do you figure? Beaches come and go, and really don't take that comparatively long to build up.

There is much more going than coming at the moment, that's not normal.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 94):
Almost everything they buy is going to get more expensive, while they themselves will not see a raise. You'd have to think their employers would feel the squeeze too, so there's less money to pay middle class workers.

Why shouldn't they see a raise ? If they're producing goods or services used by American people/companies, then Americans earning more can mean more sales.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
Keep the money I earn in my pocket

Aren't you still in high school... WHAT money?  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
The budgetary woes are due to completely unnecessary entitlement programs, the only catch being that it's more than $2 trillion.

B.S! And I defy you to show that in empirical numbers... because entitlement payouts are a pittancy of the budget, compared to bloated military spending and corporate subsidy.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 100):
Jeb Bush's fundraising capacity through his family and connections will clobber these 2nd tier guys. Sheldon Adelson alone might pour in $100 million to his campaign.

That doesn't mean anything. Review Reply#70

Quoting Aesma (Reply 103):
There is much more going than coming at the moment, that's not normal.

Again, you're using way too narrow of a time frame for "normal"... that's happened all the time.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BMI727
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 102):
Something is amiss about one of your claims...

I never updated my profile. I think I want to keep it as-is to derive amusement from fools who would rather dismiss what I say without paying attention to the argument.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 102):
Obviously neither did your savior GOP...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Gramm-Leach-Bliley was bad legislation. I'm just debunking this idea that it cause the recession and that Republicans are unilaterally culpable. Neither part of that is true.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 102):
Unless you're as truthful in reporting your income as you are with your age claims I'd love to know how you think you're going to be absolved from paying taxes.

There's multiple aspects to that. The general conservative slant towards small government, less spending, and lower taxes helps me out. Then there's the liberal support for regulation of many things that I find very distasteful. And then there's the aspect that the ways in which conservatives would allocate government resources actually benefit me while most of the spending liberals champion is just money down the crapper for me.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 103):
Why shouldn't they see a raise ?

Because their middle class. Middle class people will consume a significant amount of minimum wage labor, but they themselves aren't going to earn any more from increasing minimum wage, thus they get squeezed.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 104):
Aren't you still in high school...

Nope.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 104):
B.S! And I defy you to show that in empirical numbers... because entitlement payouts are a pittancy of the budget, compared to bloated military spending and corporate subsidy.

Way ahead of you. See reply 76.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
luckyone
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 105):
I never updated my profile. I think I want to keep it as-is to derive amusement from fools who would rather dismiss what I say without paying attention to the argument.

Considering the website asks for your date of birth upon joining, and has updated my age group (or at least it did when I joined)...again, something is amiss about your claim.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 105):
I think I want to keep it as-is to derive amusement from fools who would rather dismiss what I say without paying attention to the argument.

Your claimed age hampers your argument. It leads one (anyone) to believe that front lobe development hasn't quite finished yet...Maybe in that respects your claimed age helps you? Also, feel free to call me or anyone a fool...but better to let someone think you a fool...than to open your mouth and prove it to them.  
 
Ken777
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
That was just liberals waving their pom-poms and Fannie meeting government mandated quotas for questionable loans.

Long before you were born the government was able to deliver a responsible program for housing - it was known as the 235 Program. Lots of homes in our new neighborhood were built and bought under this program (our first house was bought on the GI Bill - something you'll never be able to do) but the programs worked because the realtors and financial sectors acted responsibly. Not so with the housing crisis under Bush/Cheney. Remember AIG?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
You're looking everywhere except for the actual cause.

When you look at entitlements that Americans have paid for (like Social Security and Medicare) that is something that should not be cut. Brainless to try. If you look at programs that address the vast poverty in this country only an idiot would want to cut those.

But there are unearned and unnecessary entitlements that can be cut. That tax free ride for nanny care is a huge one, as i the tax free ride for retirement contributions. You want to cut entitlements then look there because they are the unearned and unnecessary ones hitting the debt hard.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
Cut some crap and the budget can soak that up.

The biggest unnecessary impact we have right now is your tax free rides on nanny care and retirement contributions. Toss in that GOP Socialist program as well and things look better. Now if we could just erase that conservative puck up called the Unnecessary Iraq War we would be in even better shape.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
And long term, the military needs to move towards a more market based system of pay and benefits.

We went there years ago - after the Vietnam War was over. The problems associated with that were made clear when Bush/Cheney had to initiate force retention of personnel who had completed their active duty commitments. A real back door draft because the conservatives totally lacked the political courage to start up the draft again. Gutless approach and Federal Courts agreed.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
Oh I'm not, but you're fooling yourself if you think you can increase costs for menial labor (without increasing productivity) and not force people and businesses to do some belt tightening.

Look at Walmart - they just announced increases in minimum pay for employees because they understand that not increasing the pay at the lowest pay levels will ultimately push down their financial performance. Fight now you are arguing a dead horse that some organizations spew out in fear.

Lots of people are disagreeing with you - even Walmart and they are almost as cheap a you are.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 98):
Keep the money I earn in my pocket instead of going to various trailer trash, environmental groups, et

Ge, if all those taxpayers that came before you hadn't financed all the schools you went to then you could also be part of that trailer trash gang. Not surprised, though, that you'll be happy to see that gan increase as a percentage of the population.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 106):
Considering the website asks for your date of birth upon joining, and has updated my age group (or at least it did when I joined)...again, something is amiss about your claim.

It was true when I joined.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 106):
Your claimed age hampers your argument. It leads one (anyone) to believe that front lobe development hasn't quite finished yet...Maybe in that respects your claimed age helps you?

No. When someone would rather point out age rather than a substantive point regarding the argument it quickly marks them as someone whose argument isn't going to be worth the pixels it's displayed on.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
(our first house was bought on the GI Bill - something you'll never be able to do)

I've seen military pay tables. I'll survive.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
but the programs worked because the realtors and financial sectors acted responsibly.

There's a couple other players in that game you've conveniently left out.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
Remember AIG?

If you expose yourself to the entirety of any market, you're at risk. What's your point?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
When you look at entitlements that Americans have paid for (like Social Security and Medicare) that is something that should not be cut.

They need to be phased out in a sensible and controlled way before they grow to suck up everything or collapse.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
But there are unearned and unnecessary entitlements that can be cut. That tax free ride for nanny care is a huge one, as i the tax free ride for retirement contributions.

I'm not quite sure if you're actually stupid or just pretending to be stupid, but the explanation is the same either way. Entitlements are spending. The things you just mentioned are not spending. This is basic math, a third grader could tell you that.

And how can you claim to care about the middle class when you want to jack their taxes through the roof?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
The problems associated with that were made clear when Bush/Cheney had to initiate force retention of personnel who had completed their active duty commitments.

If you're having retention problems you better sweeten the pot. Pay who you need to pay to meet the needs of the force and don't be shy with contractors.

It's a bit ridiculous that you have kids signing up to be truck drivers and getting a lifetime of free medical coverage.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
Look at Walmart - they just announced increases in minimum pay for employees because they understand that not increasing the pay at the lowest pay levels will ultimately push down their financial performance. Fight now you are arguing a dead horse that some organizations spew out in fear.

The shut up about minimum wage the market works. Walmart obviously thinks that paying more helps their productivity. If what you say is true, they wouldn't have done it.

Raising pay via an arbitrary price floor (as would be the case with a higher government mandated wage) is going to cause problems since you're paying more for the same product. Raising pay because it helps the overall business (as Walmart did) is a good thing.

I don't know why liberals think that Walmart increasing pay somehow validates their argument about raising minimum wage. It actually does the exact opposite.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
Lots of people are disagreeing with you - even Walmart and they are almost as cheap a you are.

Again, when did cheap become a pejorative?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
Ge, if all those taxpayers that came before you hadn't financed all the schools you went to then you could also be part of that trailer trash gang.

Tons of people drove on the same roads and went to the same schools and they are part of the trailer trash gang. The difference between them and me isn't anything the government did, so I shouldn't have any special obligation to pay back into the system.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 107):
Not surprised, though, that you'll be happy to see that gan increase as a percentage of the population.

I think the government should stop all tax credits related to having kids as idiots have no problems getting knocked up. If anything, there should be an additional kid tax (graduated and reducing as income increases) since they are a liability on the system.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 105):
Way ahead of you. See reply 76.

No you're not. Because you missed a key point: you claimed "unnecessary" entitlements-- and we'll be here all day arguing as to the scope of what that entails. Hence my objection.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 106):
Your claimed age hampers your argument.

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BMI727
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 109):
No you're not. Because you missed a key point: you claimed "unnecessary" entitlements-- and we'll be here all day arguing as to the scope of what that entails. Hence my objection.

Unnecessary would be basically all of it, but it can get phased out before it causes more problems than it has already.

The point is that everyone needs to understand that anyone who says that the "War on Terror" or defense industrial complex or whatever else they want to call it is the cause of ballooning national debt is lying to you.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:42 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 110):
Unnecessary would be basically all of it

I'm sure our veterans would love to hear you make such a (ridiculous) claim

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 110):

The point is that everyone needs to understand that anyone who says that the "War on Terror" or defense industrial complex or whatever else they want to call it is the cause of ballooning national debt is lying to you.

Our budget was solvent and in surplus, even taking entitlement expenditure forecast for two decades out, before this pathetic "War on Terror"... so there goes that argument.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:55 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 111):
I'm sure our veterans would love to hear you make such a (ridiculous) claim

We'll have to keep the commitments made to veterans and current service members, but there is a need to look at benefits going forward. A more market based approach would help.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 111):
Our budget was solvent and in surplus, even taking entitlement expenditure forecast for two decades out, before this pathetic "War on Terror"... so there goes that argument.

Look at what has changed: it's the entitlements that are blowing up. That's what's driving the spending, there's no two ways about it. It's a problem decades in the making caused primarily by programs championed by liberals.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):
A more market based approach would help.

...the corporations. Funny how you leave off the last two words.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):
Look at what has changed: it's the entitlements that are blowing up.

So trillions spent on pointless war/engagements aren't a change? How interesting.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):
there's no two ways about it.

Actually there are.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Superfly
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 109):
Because you missed a key point:

Says the man who got upset an rounded up all his gurlfriends to bully me simply because I gave him a factual answer that included a middle name.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 113):
...the corporations. Funny how you leave off the last two words.

That's not what I'm getting at. I'm not saying to use more contractors, although that is probably part of it. The key is looking at part of why contractors are attractive and emulating it.

The military needs to handle their people more like the civilian world and emulate that. The military needs to take another look at how they do pay and benefits. It doesn't make a lot of sense to give a truck driver a lifetime of free healthcare. The military should adopt multiple pay scales and benefits packages as well as give commanders the ability to incentivize key people.

Overall, the goal is to make sure the military gets the right personnel for the force without overpaying for it. Such a system would also be one tool to alleviate some of the issues seen in the nuclear weapons and drone operators' ranks.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 113):
So trillions spent on pointless war/engagements aren't a change? How interesting

There's a definite bulge corresponding to the War on Terror, but that's not what's driving the spending. The national debt didn't blow up overnight. This has been decades in the making, since the New Deal really.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 113):
Actually there are.

Is this where you propose the all to typical liberal solution of just getting your hands on more of other people's money?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
the goal is to make sure the military gets the right personnel for the force without overpaying for it.

So, in other words, don't give the poor a leg up by giving them training and experience in the military and, for the love of all that is holy, make the military pay for their health care and retirement. Make them work in hazardous conditions and war zones for $6.50 an hour.

wonderful. I am sure people will be busting down the doors of the local recruiting center. Why don't you join the military. Then, after at least two years, come back and tell us all how you single handedly defeated terrorists. Because, according to you, the military is an individual effort.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
There's a definite bulge corresponding to the War on Terror, but that's not what's driving the spending. The national debt didn't blow up overnight. This has been decades in the making, since the New Deal really.

Except the deficit has been going down under Obama and GWB was handed a surplus. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...-he-has-cut-national-deficit-half/

Back to Scott Walker, he hates public education, too http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...Wisconsin-from-UW?detail=facebook# Which is not surprising since he is bankrolled by Koch Bros.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 114):
Says the man who got upset an rounded up all his gurlfriends to bully me simply because I gave him a factual answer that included a middle name.

You are mistaken: your own commentary caused that, I had nothing to do with it.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
That's not what I'm getting at.

I know, which is the problem: you don't seem to realize that that's what you're actually saying.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
It doesn't make a lot of sense to give a truck driver a lifetime of free healthcare.

So what then would be their incentive to go to the most god-awful part of the world and work, as opposed to doing it somewhere else?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
There's a definite bulge corresponding to the War on Terror

Gee, ya think?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
The national debt didn't blow up overnight.

On a relative timescale, it actually sorta did.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
Is this where you propose the all to typical liberal solution of just getting your hands on more of other people's money?

Nope, this is where I lambaste the idea of repeating the same neocon BS that got us into this mess in this first place, which so many are advocating again.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 116):
Except the deficit has been going down under Obama and GWB was handed a surplus

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Ken777
Posts: 10158
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 108):
They need to be phased out in a sensible and controlled way before they grow to suck up everything or collapse.

Why? Social Security and Medicare are programs that have worked well for generations and can continue to function well.

Before getting the knives out on these programs you need to think about the costs of not having them. I doubt if you have the capacity to understand what I've ben talking when I mention "cost shifting" in health care, but if you can understand it you can then understand the impact that shutting down Medicare (and Private MediGap) would have on cost shifting and the costs your employer nanny care would explode to.

And Social Security? Cut that out and consumer spending and confidence takes a nose dive. You don't see any problems with that because you actually believe that it will not adversely impact you.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 108):
Entitlements are spending.

Entitlements are also tax relief in many forms, like the tax free ride of employer nanny care. Or the 401K tax free ride.

I have no doubt that you are "entitled" to both.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 108):
I'll survive.

As long as nothing unexpected happens. You, like the rest of us, are one drunk driver away fro a 180 turn in how we are able to work and live our lives.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
The military needs to handle their people more like the civilian world and emulate that

Cute. Unfortunately you are not understanding that the military is a different environment than the civilian world. Deployments where you are away from your family for 6 to 13 months is normal for the Navy - and some a lot longer because of the Bush/Cheney Ego War.

The military also ORDERS military personnel to go into harm's way where injury and/or death are a reality - remember the 40,000 Purple Hearts needed for the Bush/Cheney Ego War? That doesn't happen in the business world. Things get risky in the business world and the employee can simply walk out. That doesn't happen in the middle of a war, or even in preparing for a war - which we call peace time.

And in the military you are also living under a different legal system. Google UCMJ.

But I guess it's easy to make your comment when you haven't served and experienced that environment.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
The military needs to take another look at how they do pay and benefits.

That was done after the Vietnam War (well before you were born) andI dot very seriously if the taxpayers will be happy with the idea of increasing military pay with the massive benefits due from the Bush/Cheney Folly.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
It doesn't make a lot of sense to give a truck driver a lifetime of free healthcare.

Depends entirely on the company's contract with the driver. Walmart has been a leader in long term benefits for truck drivers - Sam Walton's wife had the wisdom to talk Sam into that. Took a woman to teach the executives into understanding long term loyalty.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
The military should adopt multiple pay scales and benefits packages as well as give commanders the ability to incentivize key people.

That's been in place for 200+ years - it's called promotions.

Outside of that and issues like combat pay I doubt if the taxpayer would willing to pay increased taxes for corporate like benefits. You ready for a tax increase to back up your opinions?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 115):
There's a definite bulge corresponding to the War on Terror,

War on Terror? Cute effort to cover over the reality that Cheney & Bush invaded Iraq for trumped up reasons and had nothing to do with terrorists. Think Ego & Oil.
 
luckyone
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Cute. Unfortunately you are not understanding that the military is a different environment than the civilian world. Deployments where you are away from your family for 6 to 13 months is normal for the Navy - and some a lot longer because of the Bush/Cheney Ego War.

An interesting place to get some perspective of all places, but it comes from a passage in Gone with the Wind.
"All wars are sacred. To those who have to fight them. If the people who started wars didn't make them sacred, who would be foolish enough to fight? But, no matter what rallying cries the orators give to the idiots who fight, no matter what noble purposes they assign to wars, there is never but one reason for a war. And that is money. All wars are in reality money squabbles. But so few people ever realize it. Their ears are too full of bugles and drums and fine words from stay-at-home orators..."

Quote:
The military also ORDERS military personnel to go into harm's way where injury and/or death are a reality - remember the 40,000 Purple Hearts needed for the Bush/Cheney Ego War? That doesn't happen in the business world. Things get risky in the business world and the employee can simply walk out. That doesn't happen in the middle of a war, or even in preparing for a war - which we call peace time.

In addition some of these people have families, from whom they are separated for long periods of time fighting somebody else's war--they have their own reasons for doing so, some feel it's their duty, some have no other option. They get moved regularly, which has financial implications in addition to the social implications on the family. Not to mention the long-lasting impacts after what are basically kids with zero life experience come back from their trumped up tours of glory (how it's sold to them) with serious physical, mental, and emotional battle wounds. Those who were injured come home requiring mind-bending amounts of pain medication just to function on a pathetic level, and frequently become dependent. Many of them, if they weren't killed or permanently injured themselves, have seen their friends blown up or shot, and have nightmares about it for years, and will turn to just about any substance they can find to quiet their minds. I work with these guys daily and to witness the devastation is hard, but none of us know what that's like firsthand. There is no substitute for experience, and I say we stop arguing with what appears to be a demagogue and let people get a little taste of life experience.

[Edited 2015-03-02 15:27:56]
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):
but there is a need to look at benefits going forward. A more market based approach would help.

It's no different than a union shop - you can't take away what has already been given. The ranks of the military already have the entitlement mentality - and even a particular guy doesn't, the wife certainly wants hers.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:55 am

[quote=Aaron747,reply=120]
It's no different than a union shop - you can't take away what has already been given. The ranks of the military already have the entitlement mentality - and even a particular guy doesn't, the wife certainly wants hers.
[/quote


Union shop, usually every three years, everything renegotiated. Military, all volunteer in US. These men are keeping your ass free along with mine. Unless you have already served, I suggest you try it and then maybe your opinion will hold some weight. If not try another area of expertize. What is the saying? Armchair experts. This seems to fit here as per usual.

[Edited 2015-03-02 16:56:30]
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 121):

You're missing the point here sir. BMI is right - new management strategies are needed, for the DoD's own good - the data is there for everyone to see. But my point is it's easier said than done - you can't just change longstanding practices without a fight.

Save the speech for someone else - veterans of four wars in my family.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 116):
So, in other words, don't give the poor a leg up by giving them training and experience in the military and, for the love of all that is holy, make the military pay for their health care and retirement. Make them work in hazardous conditions and war zones for $6.50 an hour.

Why don't you read what I actually wrote and then try again...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 116):
Why don't you join the military.

The pay sucks and you get no control over where you live.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 116):
Except the deficit has been going down under Obama and GWB was handed a surplus.

Funny what happens when an overseas war winds down isn't it. None of that negates my point.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 117):
So what then would be their incentive to go to the most god-awful part of the world and work, as opposed to doing it somewhere else?

Pay and benefits. But the pay and benefits it takes to get someone to do that isn't the same pay and benefits it takes to get someone to drive a desk stateside.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 117):
On a relative timescale, it actually sorta did.

As soon as the New Deal and Great Society became reality.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 117):
Nope, this is where I lambaste the idea of repeating the same neocon BS that got us into this mess in this first place, which so many are advocating again.

It appears that you don't actually understand what neoconservatism is.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Why? Social Security and Medicare are programs that have worked well for generations and can continue to function well.

If you ignore the fact that Social Security is a giant Ponzi scheme.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Before getting the knives out on these programs you need to think about the costs of not having them. I doubt if you have the capacity to understand what I've ben talking when I mention "cost shifting" in health care, but if you can understand it you can then understand the impact that shutting down Medicare (and Private MediGap) would have on cost shifting and the costs your employer nanny care would explode to.

The solution to that is more of a free market solution, not less. Take away the obligation for healthcare providers to care for everyone in conjunction with cutting entitlements and things will shake out nicely.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
And Social Security? Cut that out and consumer spending and confidence takes a nose dive. You don't see any problems with that because you actually believe that it will not adversely impact you.

I don't expect it will impact me because I'm not planning on seeing a nickel of Social Security.

But the solution is to phase Social Security out in an orderly way so none of that will be a problem.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Entitlements are also tax relief in many forms, like the tax free ride of employer nanny care. Or the 401K tax free ride.

I have no doubt that you are "entitled" to both.

You obviously don't understand basic arithmetic.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Deployments where you are away from your family for 6 to 13 months is normal for the Navy - and some a lot longer because of the Bush/Cheney Ego War.

There are plenty of jobs that separate people from their families.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
The military also ORDERS military personnel to go into harm's way where injury and/or death are a reality - remember the 40,000 Purple Hearts needed for the Bush/Cheney Ego War?

If someone loses a leg in the military I think the government should provide prosthetics for the rest of their life. I'm saying maybe they shouldn't provide colonoscopies for the rest of their life too.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
That doesn't happen in the business world. Things get risky in the business world and the employee can simply walk out. That doesn't happen in the middle of a war, or even in preparing for a war - which we call peace time.

I fully expect the military will have to pay a premium for certain jobs because of that. In fact, I think that reforming the system would probably give many, if not most, servicemembers a raise. The goal is mostly to minimize the long term cost - costs the civilian world has already found to be mostly unsustainable.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
Depends entirely on the company's contract with the driver.

Exactly, and the military should reexamine the contracts they are giving out.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
That's been in place for 200+ years - it's called promotions.

Not pay grades, multiple pay scales. Just like in the civilian world, in the military it doesn't make much sense to pay the same for an accountant, a pilot, or a firefighter.

The system should have a serviceman's pay and benefits be a function of their rank, job function, and job performance. There should also be adjustments for remote or combat duty. All of these things should translate into a given pay and benefits package, both while serving and after. Someone with a given rank in a given job who does however good of a job would get their pay and benefits while in the service and then afterwards have a package of X dollars for education and Y years of post-service health coverage for example.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 118):
War on Terror? Cute effort to cover over the reality that Cheney & Bush invaded Iraq for trumped up reasons and had nothing to do with terrorists. Think Ego & Oil.

I don't care what you call it. The point is that if you point to defense as the driving force behind growing government spending then you are to fiscal policy what anti-vaxxers are to medicine.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 120):
It's no different than a union shop - you can't take away what has already been given.

It wouldn't fix it overnight. Realistically, turning over the force would take decades but that doesn't mean reform shouldn't be tried.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 122):
Save the speech for someone else - veterans of four wars in my family.

Are you one of them? My family only covers WW1,WW2, and Korea. My wife's family covered Vietnam. My brother in law and his brother in law saw action there. My brother in law survived, unfortunately the other was KIA. I served between Korea and Vietnam. I never bad mouth those who serve my family and my country. 5 brothers, we all served.

[Edited 2015-03-02 17:56:14]
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
As soon as the New Deal and Great Society became reality.

And accelerated dramatically post 1981

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
It appears that you don't actually understand what neoconservatism is.

Then amuse me, what exactly am I missing. Do share.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 125):
And accelerated dramatically post 1981

Time to start cutting to start solving the problem.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 125):
Then amuse me, what exactly am I missing. Do share.

Neoconservatives started as pro-Vietnam War Democrats. Neocons are people who believe in using the wealth and power of the United States to help the less fortunate and enforce justice. Spreading democracy and all that, so it's pretty much a liberal endeavor not a conservative one. George W Bush was an aberration.

Being a neocon is almost purely an international view and has little bearing on domestic politics.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 126):
Neoconservatives started as pro-Vietnam War Democrats

Started earlier than that. But that's a minor detail, keep going...


Quoting BMI727 (Reply 126):
Neocons are people who believe in using the wealth and power of the United States to help the less fortunate and enforce justice.

That was then-- when it was indeed basically an offshoot of modern liberalism/anti-Stalinist socialism. We are longggg removed from that branching split, and if you believe the above encompasses modern neo-conservatism, that is where your naivete shines apparent.

It's okay, you're young and impressionable-- you don't know any better, so I'll help you out:
Neocons are people who claim to believe in using the wealth and power of the United States internationally to help the less fortunate and enforce justice; while instead using that as a convenient mantra for masking their intent to directly exploit for personal gain, whatever or whomever it is they're claiming to seek justice therefor.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:05 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 127):
Started earlier than that. But that's a minor detail, keep going...

I skipped ahead a bit.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 127):
and if you believe the above encompasses modern neo-conservatism, that is where your naivete shines apparent.

It does encompass modern neoconservatism because that's what it really is. I'll admit that the term has been corrupted a bit because liberals have begun using it as a general purpose epithet for pretty much anything they don't like, but I'm smarter than that. See below:

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 127):
It's okay, you're young and impressionable-- you don't know any better, so I'll help you out:
Neocons are people who claim to believe in using the wealth and power of the United States internationally to help the less fortunate and enforce justice; while instead using that as a convenient mantra for masking their intent to directly exploit for personal gain, whatever or whomever it is they're claiming to seek justice therefor.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:19 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 124):
My family only covers WW1,WW2, and Korea.

Mine covers WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and my dad's cousin is definitely involved in some major intelligence capacity but we have no idea what to this day. She has been posted to more than 10 countries over the years and speaks several languages.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 124):
I never bad mouth those who serve my family and my country

Quite a difference between badmouthing the system and the individuals serving under it. Didn't think it was that murky.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 124):
5 brothers, we all served.

Thank you for your service, as always.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 124):
Are you one of them?

No. It's called selective service for a reason. I could not faithfully execute duties in the manner required under a foreign policy I am in strong opposition to. The time to serve for me would have been after 9/11, but as I was opposed to the ramp-up in Iraq, did not consider it. In the meantime, I serve by boosting California wine sales in this lovely country, and sending many Japanese tourists America's way.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 120):
The ranks of the military already have the entitlement mentality - and even a particular guy doesn't, the wife certainly wants hers.

Hmmm. Let us agree to disagree on certain points. My point of view is shaped by Selective Service, when you enlisted, or you were drafted. These folks choose to serve, including your family. In my youth, no such luxury. Cold War days, so I give them my respect and gratitude for doing so. If money is wasted, blame the Defense Industry made up of the Corporations many on here worship. Blame the politicians, the lobbyists. Do not blame the people who serve. No average service people ends up wealthy, like the villains I mentioned. I thank your family and many others for their service in this age of terror and maybe a new Cold War.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:31 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 128):
I'll admit that the term has been corrupted a bit

Yeah, but by the sociopathic actions of those whom it describes.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 128):
because liberals have begun using it as a general purpose epithet for pretty much anything they don't like

....anyone else notice the incredible irony in this accusation?     
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:30 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 131):
...anyone else notice the incredible irony in this accusation?

No but we do notice that you ran away from discussing Scott Walker, which was the whole point of this thread.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 132):
No but we do notice that you ran away from discussing Scott Walker

What hasn't been hashed? No one's running... I enjoy talking about that goofy looking mofo.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Funny what happens when an overseas war winds down isn't it.

Really winding down, isn't it? How many Hawks in the top are ready for boots on the ground to grafter ISIS?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Pay and benefits

That only partially works. The military offered $20,000.00 signing bonuses during the Cheney/Bush EgoWar and they still had to have that backdoor draft to force retention of those who had honorably served their commitment of active duty. Looks like cash alone doesn't work. Maybe we need to go back to the draft with a 2 year active duty period, 2 active reserves and 2 inactive reserves.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
It appears that you don't actually understand what neoconservatism is.

What is was then or what it is today. These days it is the lapdog of the Koch Brothers Group of Political Donors.

And the fools that thought their lies about WMDs in Iraq would lead to a successful future for Iraq.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
If you ignore the fact that Social Security is a giant Ponzi scheme.

Hate to tell you, but a Ponzi scheme doesn't last the 80 or so years SS has been delivering. SS, BTW, has delivered a surplus for many of the years it has been active, especially when you consider the interest earned. It has also provided a source of borrowing for the government for various capital programs, like infrastructure and investments in aerospace. (You do have a job in aerospace, don't you?)

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
The solution to that is more of a free market solution, not less

You fail to understand that there is a huge difference between a "free" market and the "private" market that operates in a civilized society. The banks are not totally free of regulations, nor is the pharma industry"free" to dump new drugs on the market without meeting certain minimum standards. Airlines are not free to do what ever they want in terms of maintenance, employee training etc.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Take away the obligation for healthcare providers to care for everyone in conjunction with cutting entitlements and things will shake out nicely.

Take away the obligations for employers to provide nanny care to employees and watch how fast a more responsible system can fall into place.

Employers are the biggest providers of health care and I'll agree that the mountains of money they spend should be cut dramatically ignored to allow for price reductions - and we also need to end your tax free ride on that nanny care.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
I don't expect it will impact me because I'm not planning on seeing a nickel of Social Security.

Well, there is a sucker born every minute. Maybe if you were vocal in informing your guys in DC that you expect it to be there because you are paying for all of the components - including death & disability insurance. Any time the financial sector (and their lap dogs in politics) go on their speak about killing SS they are basically drooling at the mouth when they are thinking of the massive profits from those trillions of dollars flow into their pockets. Like I said, there is a sucker born every minute.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
But the solution is to phase Social Security out in an orderly way so none of that will be a problem.

Orderly? Like Bush/Cheney's orderly invasion of Iraq?

BTW, you don't want to address all of the non-normal issues, like special needs kids growing up and needing federal taxpayer's money supporting them every month they live.

And you especially want to avoid thinking about the insurance side that would kick in if that drunk driver ends up with you in his sights.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
You obviously don't understand basic arithmetic.

Oh, I understand arithmetic.

But you clearly have a problem understanding accounting. You just want to keep your head in the sand when the idea of how much it costs us to have that tax free ride on employer nanny care and tax free contributions to some private retirement plan.

That's because you desperately want to hold onto the entitlements you enjoy so much.

And you want to bitch about the nation's debt at the same time.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
There are plenty of jobs that separate people from their families.

And those employees are free to quit and return home to their families whenever they want. You wouldn't even have tried to use that line if you had served.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
I'm saying maybe they shouldn't provide colonoscopies for the rest of their life too.

Depends on the medical condition that is a direct OR INDIRECT result of their service. That is for a Doctor to determine, not some cheapskate looking to shaft those who do serve.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
The goal is mostly to minimize the long term cost

So cut the size of the military in half and return to a total isolationist mentality.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Exactly, and the military should reexamine the contracts they are giving out.

Especially to civilian contracts. Look at the total incompetence of the industries with military contracts to actually deliver on time and on budget. You are part of that game now so you know how it operates. Apple outperforms military contractors when it comes to developing and delivering products and services.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Not pay grades, multiple pay scales.

There are a lot of variations for multiple amounts at a specific grade. Time in service is a big one, as are others, like sea duty pay, sub pay, flight pay, combat pay. There are also reenlistment bonuses available and they vary by the importance of retaining various specialities.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Take away the obligation for healthcare providers to care for everyone in conjunction with cutting entitlements and things will shake out nicely.

There you go again, supporting what appears (if you don't look too closely) a conservative approach for lowering costs while dramatically increasing cost shifting that will be paid for by your employer and yourself - if you have to help pay for your nanny care.

DOon't talk to me about understanding arithmetic - you don't have a clue what cost shifting is and how it impacts the explosive inflation rates of health care.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
The point is that if you point to defense as the driving force behind growing government spending then you are to fiscal policy what anti-vaxxers are to medicine.

If you don't believe that defense is one of the drivers of government growing then you certainly have your head in the sand.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 123):
Realistically, turning over the force would take decades but that doesn't mean reform shouldn't be tried.

Let's say 7 decades. I'm 70 and it's pretty easy to look back at how many demands have been placed on the US military during my life time. Start with the 40s and work your way for those 70 years.

And 70 years is a moderate estimate for what you are dreaming about, mainly because there are going to be some major challenges for the military over the next 70 years.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 126):
Time to start cutting to start solving the problem.

How deep do you want to cut the defense budgets?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 126):
Neocons are people who believe in using the wealth and power of the United States to help the less fortunate and enforce justice.

Help the "less fortunate"? That is the best joke you have delivered in years.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 126):
Being a neocon is almost purely an international view and has little bearing on domestic politics.

Wrong again. No surprise there.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 128):
I'll admit that the term has been corrupted a bit because liberals have begun using it as a general purpose epithet for pretty much anything they don't like, but I'm smarter than that. See below:

The term has also been abused by the neocons themselves, and by their failures during the Cheney Bush Administration that almost dragged this country into a real depression.

But hey, maybe they can get us there the next time they are in power.
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Really winding down, isn't it? How many Hawks in the top are ready for boots on the ground to grafter ISIS?

Don't play dumb. (I hope you're playing, but I often wonder)

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
The military offered $20,000.00 signing bonuses during the Cheney/Bush EgoWar and they still had to have that backdoor draft to force retention of those who had honorably served their commitment of active duty. Looks like cash alone doesn't work.

It means they just aren't offering enough. Or increasing pay instead of just a signing bonus. Those same people who were being offered the $20k bonus were also being offered the GI Bill and VA healthcare, so those carrots weren't working either.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
What is was then or what it is today.

What it is today is just a word for anything a liberal doesn't like. It's the new "stupid head."

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Hate to tell you, but a Ponzi scheme doesn't last the 80 or so years SS has been delivering.

It does when you are able to keep finding new suckers and force the ones you have to contribute more. The government does both via law.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
The banks are not totally free of regulations, nor is the pharma industry"free" to dump new drugs on the market without meeting certain minimum standards. Airlines are not free to do what ever they want in terms of maintenance, employee training etc.

Those things violate rights. Nobody has the right to get services for nothing.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
BTW, you don't want to address all of the non-normal issues, like special needs kids growing up and needing federal taxpayer's money supporting them every month they live.

What do they provide me that is worth my money?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Oh, I understand arithmetic.

No, you don't.

If you buy something on sale, do you go tell your friends about how much money the store gave you?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Any time the financial sector (and their lap dogs in politics) go on their speak about killing SS they are basically drooling at the mouth when they are thinking of the massive profits from those trillions of dollars flow into their pockets.

No one is going to force you to put your money in the financial sector. Furthermore, the financial sector has made me way more money than Social Security has.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
And those employees are free to quit and return home to their families whenever they want. You wouldn't even have tried to use that line if you had served.

There's going to be a premium attached to that, which is fine. I don't think the premium should be decades of open ended benefits.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Especially to civilian contracts.

The military is way ahead of you on that one.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
So cut the size of the military in half and return to a total isolationist mentality.

There is that approach, but it is just about the worst possible plan. I prefer the approach that includes common sense, which means emulating more efficient entities (does Apple promise a lifetime of medical care?).

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
DOon't talk to me about understanding arithmetic - you don't have a clue what cost shifting is and how it impacts the explosive inflation rates of health care.

Get rid of cost shifting by getting rid of the cost. Stop dragging along people who can't pay.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
If you don't believe that defense is one of the drivers of government growing then you certainly have your head in the sand.

I don't know how much clearer I can be when you are obviously dead set on ignoring the facts: defense is not where the growth is. Defense spending has dropped with respect to GDP, entitlements have exploded. Look at the numbers.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
How deep do you want to cut the defense budgets?

At this point, trying to fix the budget by cutting defense is like giving Harrison Ford a Band-Aid.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
Wrong again. No surprise there.

Do you ever bother to look at facts or anything? Or do you just like saying stuff?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 134):
The term has also been abused by the neocons themselves, and by their failures during the Cheney Bush Administration that almost dragged this country into a real depression.

Being a neocon has nothing to do with the economy and that administration did not drag the economy into a near depression. (The only way to make that case is if you totally ignore root cause, which is something I know you like to do)

Why don't you just that you think Bush was a big stupid head and dispense with the blatant ignorance of facts and revisionist history? I could at least have some respect for that.
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
Those same people who were being offered the $20k bonus were also being offered the GI Bill and VA healthcare, so those carrots weren't working either.

So how much do we increase taxes to pay for people to be willing to serve? $100K per boot on the ground? think that would work and how much of a tax increase does that need?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
It's the new "stupid head."

With the Cheney Bush decisions to invade Iraq I guess you can consider "stupid head" appropriate.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
It does when you are able to keep finding new suckers and force the ones you have to contribute more

I was quite happy t pay those FICA contributions during my working years because I knew they would be there for me today - and they are. Medicare, BTW, isn't free. It's $100+ a month and there are deductions and co-pays. That has opened a very large door for private insurance companies to make big profits off MediGap, which both the wife and I happily pay for. What Medicare does not do is pay for the cost shifting you still don't understand, leaving your employer to may even more for your nanny care. But that's OK, he just lowers your salary (directly or indirectly) because you'll never catch.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
Those things violate rights.

Requiring FDA approval for a new drug violates who's rights? The company that invented thalidomide?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
If you buy something on sale, do you go tell your friends about how much money the store gave you?

Again with the demonstration of a lack of knowledge of accounting. You must be an engineer - with very little experience.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
Furthermore, the financial sector has made me way more money than Social Security has.

And I'll bet that you are not paying for the Death and Disability Benefits of SS, nor will you if SS is ever thrown to the Financial Sector. You'll never believe that you are one drunk driver away from needing those benefits.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
I don't think the premium should be decades of open ended benefits.

Again demonstrating the lack of knowledge you would have gained if you had served.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
does Apple promise a lifetime of medical care?

While Apple products have performed very well on the battlefield Apple does not send employees into battle, hence there is no need to deliver lifetime benefits for those who served.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
Stop dragging along people who can't pay.

What is your preference?

- Making people show proof of ability to pay before admitting them to the ER waiting room?
- Voluntary or forced euthanasia?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
that administration did not drag the economy into a near depression

You are the first person I interact with that has actually made such stupid comment in public.         

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
Why don't you just that you think Bush was a big stupid head

I don't believe that W was stupid, I've been clear on that many times.

But I do believe that Cheney led theAdministration in every area he wanted power. Bush was President and Cheney was CEO during that first time. Cheney was basically very cunning and played both W and the American public like a cheap fiddle.
 
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RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
So how much do we increase taxes to pay for people to be willing to serve? $100K per boot on the ground? think that would work and how much of a tax increase does that need?

Probably not at all. You might have to pay more up front but that will be offset by not providing a lifetime of benefits.

Furthermore, you act as if everyone in the military would need to be well paid to go do dangerous work but of course that is not reality. Some people serve in the military and only drive a desk stateside plus doing multiple combat tours does not need to be counted the same as sitting on Guam for a while.

There's also the matter that for the military would have greater latitude to try and retain the really smart people who are vital and hard to replace.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
I was quite happy t pay those FICA contributions during my working years because I knew they would be there for me today - and they are.

Then you would be free to take that money and buy government bonds if you want to invest with them so badly.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
Requiring FDA approval for a new drug violates who's rights?

Not requiring approval may violate rights. Not requiring healthcare providers to provide free services doesn't violate anyone's rights.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
Again with the demonstration of a lack of knowledge of accounting. You must be an engineer - with very little experience.

You keep saying the same thing over and over while ignoring the data, either intentionally or out of genuine ignorance.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
While Apple products have performed very well on the battlefield Apple does not send employees into battle, hence there is no need to deliver lifetime benefits for those who served.

Apple does get many of the top people in the fields they need without incurring huge costs decades into the future. Also, a lot of military employees never get sent into battle either.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
- Making people show proof of ability to pay before admitting them to the ER waiting room?

Do exactly this. Healthcare providers might wonder where many of their patients have gone and find ways to reduce prices.

Of course, they'd be totally free to treat everyone regardless, but figuring out how to pay for it would be their issue to deal with.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 136):
You are the first person I interact with that has actually made such stupid comment in public.

Okay then. What specific policy championed and enacted by the Bush administration caused the economic crash in 2007-2008?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Ken777
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
You might have to pay more up front but that will be offset by not providing a lifetime of benefits.

If the military was a safe environment, like sitting at a computer playing engineer, than I would agree with you. Experience (something you lack) has shown that there are long term problems involved with military service.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Then you would be free to take that money and buy government bonds if you want to invest with them so badly.

Obviously you don't understand the difference between government bonds and the Social Security Program. You especially fail to understand the D&D benefits - and you are still one drunk driver away from really needing those benefits. Happened to a guy who I worked with some years back - a drunk driver clipped his car, which ripped and left him a quad for life. Of course he had company insurance - that means that immediately after the accident the insurance company took over his case and made it clear that no one from the company was to talk to him until everything was settled.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Furthermore, you act as if everyone in the military would need to be well paid to go do dangerous work but of course that is not reality

If you are in the military you are likely to be transferred periodically. That is how the job works.

And, as smart as you think you are, there is no way even you can predict all of the conflicts that our military will face over the next 30 - 50 years.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Some people serve in the military and only drive a desk stateside plus doing multiple combat tours does not need to be counted the same as sitting on Guam for a while.

Again, if you serve you can expect to be transferred whenever you branch needs you to move.

And, again, you have no idea of what is heading our way and what everyone in the military will face.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
There's also the matter that for the military would have greater latitude to try and retain the really smart people who are vital and hard to replace.

The military already has the ability to train and retrain everyone in uniform. That was a long established situation long before I served in the 60s.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Not requiring healthcare providers to provide free services doesn't violate anyone's rights.

When you have For Profit Hospitals you are probably right - any health care provider there can elect to refuse to treat patients who cannot pay. Of course the government can ban all research funds from those hospitals.

These bans are not really a problem because their ethics would put those research funds at risk anyway.

Non-Profit Hospitals are different situations in that they are given massive tax breaks to care for those who cannot.

And, of course, Medicare/Medicaid can also require a facility to meet certain ethical standards before approving the facility for research funding.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Also, a lot of military employees never get sent into battle either.

And how do you know that they will not go into a combat zone in the future? If the past is a clue then you are clueless.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
Do exactly this.

Just make sure that personnel blocking access have their bullet proof vests on - even if they are behind bullet proof glass.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 137):
but figuring out how to pay for it would be their issue to deal with.

That's already been done - it's called cost shifting, which dumps those costs on your employer's nanny care premiums.

At some point these costs are going to hit a tipping point and you will be able to take on the costs of that nanny care all on your own.

Gee, how about that. You paying for your insurance with after tax dollars and your employer freed from the burden of giving you nanny care.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Scott Walker Will Be Tough To Beat

Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:14 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 138):
If the military was a safe environment, like sitting at a computer playing engineer, than I would agree with you. Experience (something you lack) has shown that there are long term problems involved with military service.

Pay and benefits during and after service should be based partially on whether and how much one serves overseas or in combat. It's not that complicated.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 138):
Obviously you don't understand the difference between government bonds and the Social Security Program.

If you really want the government to have your retirement money, there's your option. But you should have no problems letting the rest of us invest as we like.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 138):
If you are in the military you are likely to be transferred periodically. That is how the job works.

That's not relevant since the government can track that quite easily.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 138):
The military already has the ability to train and retrain everyone in uniform.

Unless they can do it for free you don't have a point.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 138):
That's already been done - it's called cost shifting, which dumps those costs on your employer's nanny care premiums.

Get rid of the government backing to pay for people who cannot pay and leave it to providers to figure out if they want to care for such patients and, if so, how they would pay for it. If they want to increase prices to cover it, fine, but push it too far and they'll start to disappear from insurance plans and lose patients.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

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