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Rara
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 248):

See, what you wrote (and what I reacted to) was "Long gone are the great days of Europe, our core values have been replaced by bunch of junk." That's just nonsense. What were the great days of Europe? The days in which we lived in intellectual darkness, under the terror regime of the Catholic church? The days in which we brought death and misery to innocent folks around the world, by conquering their lands, infecting them with diseases, burning their villages and raping their women? The days in which we fought amonst ourselves the deadliest and most horrible wars ever, when millions perished from genocide and prosecution? The days when half of the continent was locked behind the Iron Curtain, unable to speak up, and both sides were constantly plotting how best to kill each other? Where were our "core values" then?

I maintain that never in history have we lived up to what call "values", but probably in no time more so than we do today.

Europe will diminish in importance, yes. But that's not because of some poor refugees or badly integrated immigrants, these issues are blown totally out of proportion. Not saying that they are trivial or don't need to be solved, but in the grand scheme of things, Europe's demise will have more to do with us getting older, fewer, and ever more divided.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):
I'm wondering if in the last few weeks Clarkson has found he cannot just step into another high profile and highly paid role as easily as he might have thought at first.

That remains to be seen. Given that Wilman and May have both quit though, I'd say the evidence points the other way. Reports suggest that one of the presenters has a non-compete clause in his contract, but I expect that's just a matter of money and timing.

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):
The uber fans should maybe face up to the fact that as talented as Clarkson is, he might not be someone you want to work with, unless your one of 'Jezza's pals'.

Very true- but given his value as a presenter, that probably won't have a huge effect on his employment prospects. There are tons of performers in all manner of entertainment industries who are complete twats "in real life". Doesn't usually affect their careers much unless they do something really heinous.

Hopefully we'll just see a new show on Netflix as the reports suggest, with a bit of a refresh. The formula was getting a little stale anyway; they need some new features. Hopefully this change will force them to alter a few things.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 248):
The political and economic significance of Europe and European Union has gone downhill and will do so in the future too.

The link between that and political correctness is tenuous at best. What seems crystal clear is that many aging white Western males seem to be convinced such a link exists.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 248):
Not for the benefit of all mankind, but for the benefit of all Europeans, though I oppose all religious bs.

Yet you seem to be falling right in line with the bs of the superiority of the days where Europe was ruled by white European males.

Quoting Rara (Reply 250):
The days in which we fought amonst ourselves the deadliest and most horrible wars ever, when millions perished from genocide and prosecution?

In particular when such wars were fought mostly because members of one demographic was convinced it was superior to members of other demographics...
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zckls04
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:40 pm

"Political correctness" nowadays is just a synonym for "having the slightest degree of manners and consideration for others". It's a convenient straw man to justify being as boorish as possible.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):
Don't think in those (mythical) 'pre PC days' a high profile presenter would have got away with punching subordinates, most not even surviving all the trouble he caused the BBC. Real or puffed up by those who just did not like him.

It was so insignificant that the police didn't even bother charging him with assault, this was completely overblown.

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):
I'm wondering if in the last few weeks Clarkson has found he cannot just step into another high profile and highly paid role as easily as he might have thought at first.

If the netflix and HBO rumours prove to be true he'll probably make even more money than he did on the beeb.

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):

Other companies will have people in the same role as the unfortunate producer on TG.

Maybe the guy actually deserved a punch in the face, I wasn't there so I don't know. Now that the show is effectively dead he's probably going to out of work.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 253):
"Political correctness" nowadays is just a synonym for "having the slightest degree of manners and consideration for others". It's a convenient straw man to justify being as boorish as possible.

Maybe, if your definition of "having the slightest degree of manners and consideration for others" is not saying anything that could offend anybody. If I was to behave like a politically correct person in modern European sense I shouldn't criticize religion, any country, government or a political ideology as that might offend somebody.

Quoting Rara (Reply 250):

Well, from an European viewpoint the era of colonialism wasn't that bad. All great empires were formed through war and oppression of some sort, yet in the end they generally did bring wealth and stability to people living in them. Too bad colonialism was all about exploitation rather than real development of the areas under European control.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:27 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 255):
If I was to behave like a politically correct person in modern European sense I shouldn't criticize religion, any country, government or a political ideology as that might offend somebody.

I think it largely depends on context, and whether what you're saying is worthwhile and constructive or just griping and complaining. The majority of what comes out of the mouths of people who decry political correctness all the time is the latter.
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garpd
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:00 pm

I think GDB's problem here, is that he can't accept that no matter how much he loathes him, Jeremy Clarkson has a hug following and is very popular among TV viewers. Furthermore, Top Gear was a very popular show and very profitable for the BBC. It must really stick in his craw that people continue to be fans of Top Gear and Clarkson.

Rest assured, Clarkson and co will "walk" into another well paid job, especially now that Andy Wilman is on board.
All they have to do is continue what they were doing under a different banner.

Regardless what you think GDB, Clarkson's career has only suffered a hiccup with this completely overblown situation.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 254):
It was so insignificant that the police didn't even bother charging him with assault, this was completely overblown.

There's lots of things I can do that will get me fired yet won't get charges filed against me. Clarkson had been told he had his last warning, yet could not prevent himself from doing something stupid. That's what elite is pointing out in:

Quoting elite (Reply 241):
Yet TopGear fans will ultimately have no one to blame but Clarkson himself.

... yet so many here just prefer to see it as some sort of PC conspiracy.

Quoting garpd (Reply 257):
All they have to do is continue what they were doing under a different banner.

Hopefully not. The show was pretty damn stale.

Quoting garpd (Reply 257):
Regardless what you think GDB, Clarkson's career has only suffered a hiccup with this completely overblown situation.

It will probably end up like Howard Stern: he's somewhere out there in pay per view land and presumably is making good money, but no one outside of his core fans know he's still around.
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opethfan
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 257):

The thing with Clarkson is that many on the British left assume he speaks only to those just like himself: (upper) middle class, privately educated, conservative leaning (although he's an atheist and hasn't really made any socially-conservative statements outside of a distaste for public service unions), older, white males.

But the fanbase is huge all over the world, mostly young and with a fair amount of female fans as well. Look at the scenes with fans in the Middle East, Canada, Africa, and the studio audience. He isn't only popular among his ilk. And that's what The Guardian and parts of the BBC abhor, in my opinion.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 258):
Clarkson had been told he had his last warning

And if the rationale for that warning is stupid, why should it be held in the same regard as a warning caused by a legitimate incident?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 258):
yet could not prevent himself from doing something stupid.

Presumably by the point that you're physically assaulting someone, "Hmm, this could be bad following that accusation I mumbled the word 'nigger' on some B-roll." isn't part of the decision making process.

Quoting GDB (Reply 249):
I'm wondering if in the last few weeks Clarkson has found he cannot just step into another high profile and highly paid role as easily as he might have thought at first.

That's a very hasty suggestion to make. Most reports are suggesting that he's still under a non-compete clause and other key members of the team have been handling their affairs. As silly as the BBC often are, do you really think they'd pay someone millions a year when there's absolutely no competition for his services?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 255):
Well, from an European viewpoint the era of colonialism wasn't that bad.

And from a human standpoint the seal hunt isn't that bad, either.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:57 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 254):
It was so insignificant that the police didn't even bother charging him with assault, this was completely overblown.

Because there was no formal complaint from the assault victim. Had he elected to make a complaint it would have been different. The poor guy got enough death threats from Clarkson worshippers as it was.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 254):
Maybe the guy actually deserved a punch in the face, I wasn't there so I don't know. Now that the show is effectively dead he's probably going to out of work.

Nice, how old are you? Left the playground yet?

Quoting garpd (Reply 257):
think GDB's problem here, is that he can't accept that no matter how much he loathes him, Jeremy Clarkson has a hug following and is very popular among TV viewers. Furthermore, Top Gear was a very popular show and very profitable for the BBC. It must really stick in his craw that people continue to be fans of Top Gear and Clarkson.

Your problem might be a lack of comprehension, I've defended him enough times in the past when he has done something that's funny, a bit of piss taking, his often rather subversive humour, but there are limits and if you cannot see the difference, well.......
Never said I've hated him, acknowledged his talent enough times including in this thread.
Again, I watched and enjoyed TG.

That TG is or was so popular let him get away with a lot more than most in his line of work.
No, my 'problem' is that I don't think the sun shines out of his arse, don't hang on his every utterance and know that is an exaggerated persona. Do you?

None of this has anything to do with what happened at that hotel, that wasn't playing for the cameras, that was real.
It seems many, those sad sack petitioners included, cannot tell the difference between the scripted with occasional off the cuff comments show and a drunken prick assaulting someone.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:42 pm

Clarkson's fall from Top Gear does happen from time to time to personalities we trust and enjoy in our modern entertainment and news media. Back in February, the USA's NBC network suspended its top news person, Brian Williams, due to serious unethical behaviors mostly centered around false embellishment of stories that he was under enemy fire as an embedded reporter in an US Army helicopter in Iraq a number of years ago. In the NBC internal investigation since then, more stories from him that might be false or excessively embellished have come out. Beyond that, he apparently has an ego that it way too big, appeared way too much on other programs, gets paid way too much money angering others who work in NBC News and he has insulted the NBC News staff's professionalism. Basically the false Iraq story was a final straw.

That Clarkson clearly committed an act of assault on a BBC producer was a final straw of a long history of public issues and probably more behind the scenes as to staff that have been held back but contributed to his suspension or not renewing his contract. As a government and thus in turn taxpayer/fee payer controlled organization, the BBC had to make an example of Clarkson to offset their terrible failures to control criminals like Jimmy Saville.

So where does Top Gear and Clarkson go from here ? Clarkson has a long career as a political and social commentator that should keep him financially solvent, no problem there. May and Hammond will be ok no matter what, they are good blokes, smart and I am quite sure financially secure.. I would not be surprised that someone like Netflix would center a new car show around him as is getting more involved in new produced product to expand their revenues and challenge mainstream media choices.
As to TGUK - maybe it was time for a change of presenters, tweak the format to make it more with our times, reach out to a much more diverse audience the UK show has around the world. Perhaps a fresh start, with a female as a co-presenter, one with racing or performance car experience, good looking and British would be welcome and perhaps add more women to the viewership numbers.

I don't think Clarkson is a bad person at all. I do think that he is as human as the rest of us and maybe it was time for him to move on to something or someplace else.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 254):
If the netflix and HBO rumours prove to be true he'll probably make even more money than he did on the beeb.

That would not be hard, compared to other people who have a world wide audience of 350 million, the 3 of them were paid peanuts, where ever they end up it will be a serious pay raise.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting opethfan (Reply 259):
And if the rationale for that warning is stupid, why should it be held in the same regard as a warning caused by a legitimate incident?

You seem to be saying that if my boss tells me I'm on my last warning even for something I think is stupid, I should just ignore such a warning?
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 260):
Nice, how old are you? Left the playground yet?

Many years ago, but sometimes violence is justified. Neither you nor I were there so we can't comment on whether or not this was justified.

Quoting GDB (Reply 260):
The poor guy got enough death threats from Clarkson worshippers as it was.

I kinda hope the poor guy has a hard life from here on in. Not that I would wish him any harm or death.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 263):
You seem to be saying that if my boss tells me I'm on my last warning even for something I think is stupid, I should just ignore such a warning?

If bosses are using faulty logic to reprimand me, then it's a hostile work environment and I'd be looking at the door anyway.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:05 pm

It looks the Argentinians are still pissed at Top Gear:

Quoting The Telegraph:

Jeremy Clarkson and his Top Gear colleagues deliberately entered Argentina with
a Falklands-referenced number plate, a judge has ruled.

Maria Cristina Barrionuevo rejected claims by the BBC and the presenter that the use of the
plate H982 FKL on Clarkson's Porsche was an "unfortunate coincidence”.

She also described the decision to drive through southern Argentina with the vehicle –
abandoned after angry locals forced the Top Gear team to halt filming and flee the
country – "arrogant and disrespectful”.

IMO the only disrespectful is the behaviour from the Argentinians that are involved in this.
They are just embarrassing themselves.

[Edited 2015-04-25 14:06:22]
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 242):
Long gone are the great days of Europe, our core values have been replaced by bunch of junk.

Europe's core values have never been about insulting anyone repeatedly for no purpose other than boorish amusement, nor was it ever about whining like a little bitch when called on it.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 255):
If I was to behave like a politically correct person in modern European sense I shouldn't criticize religion, any country, government or a political ideology as that might offend somebody.

Were that the problem, we might agree. Only, you're trying to paint as criticism what is thinly veiled racism and gratuitous insults.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 266):
IMO the only disrespectful is the behaviour from the Argentinians that are involved in this. They are just embarrassing themselves.

Am I understanding the article? An Argentinian prosecutor opened a case because Top Gear decided, a bit late, to replace the H982 FKL plate with another? Did the prosecutor think further rioting was a preferable alternative, or is this some desperate ploy for attention? Good of the judge to tell him to go fly a kite.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 268):
An Argentinian prosecutor opened a case because
Top Gear decided, a bit late, to replace the H982 FKL plate with another?

I don't know

The Argentinians first claimed that Top Gear switched the car's original license plate
to the H982 FKL one As mentioned in the old thread car registration his showed that
the H982 FKL plate was real and not something chosen for this episode.

You are right that a judge now claims that they changed the license plate after entering
Patagonia but it doesnt say which plates they changed between.
But I think it is what I wrote above that H982 FKL is the "new plate" that they changed to
when they arrived in Patagonia,
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pvjin
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 267):
Europe's core values have never been about insulting anyone repeatedly for no purpose other than boorish amusement, nor was it ever about whining like a little bitch when called on it.

In a free country people should be allowed to criticize and make fun of pretty much anything, even if it offends some people. There are privacy and defamation laws to protect private individuals from unjustified slander, any organization, ideology and company definitely should be absolutely free target for criticism and jokes.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 267):
Were that the problem, we might agree. Only, you're trying to paint as criticism what is thinly veiled racism and gratuitous insults.

A racist is a person who thinks people of certain nationality or ethnicity are worse than others. Someone singing an old song which happens to have some politically incorrect words in it isn't automatically a racist. Someone making jokes that involve stereotypes about some ethnicities isn't necessarily a racist either.

If we start limiting freedom of speech in name of not offending anybody we may as well go install EU wide Sharia law. Certain ideologies simply can't be criticized without offending someone. Blasphemy laws in particular are very backward, religions should be treated like any other ideology because in the end they are political constructions designed to be used as a way to control people.

[Edited 2015-04-25 16:33:28]
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 261):
suspension or not renewing his contract. As a government and thus in turn taxpayer/fee payer controlled organization, the BBC had to make an example of Clarkson to offset their terrible failures to control criminals like Jimmy Saville.

That's true though in fairness the BBC were in good company with that, pretty much the whole bloody country failed to control him, much less prosecute the ghastly man. The Thatcher government actually gave him free reign and power over a hospital for the criminally insane.

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 262):
That would not be hard, compared to other people who have a world wide audience of 350 million, the 3 of them were paid peanuts, where ever they end up it will be a serious pay raise.

Well Clarkson is a multi-millionaire and still likely to be rich even if his divorce costs him a chunk of it. The other two are likely millionaire's too.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 264):
Many years ago, but sometimes violence is justified. Neither you nor I were there so we can't comment on whether or not this was justified.

We do know now after the investigation, Clarkson, to his credit, did not contest at least in public the events as reported.
Not gone to the lawyers has he?
Justified? He's a TV presenter not someone charged with protecting the county or enforcing law and order.
You seem to think the world should revolve around Clarkson, as he seems to have done that night.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:42 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 266):
It looks the Argentinians are still pissed at Top Gear:

Quoting The Telegraph:
Jeremy Clarkson and his Top Gear colleagues deliberately entered Argentina with
a Falklands-referenced number plate, a judge has ruled.

Maria Cristina Barrionuevo rejected claims by the BBC and the presenter that the use of the
plate H982 FKL on Clarkson's Porsche was an "unfortunate coincidence”.

She also described the decision to drive through southern Argentina with the vehicle –
abandoned after angry locals forced the Top Gear team to halt filming and flee the
country – "arrogant and disrespectful”.
IMO the only disrespectful is the behaviour from the Argentinians that are involved in this.
They are just embarrassing themselves.

Jesus, that is rich.
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 271):
You seem to think the world should revolve around Clarkson, as he seems to have done that night.

No I don't I just think this was blown all out of proportion, it's not like he beat the man unconscious. If he had done that then throw the book at him, even lock him up for gbh.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:04 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 270):
In a free country people should be allowed to criticize and make fun of pretty much anything, even if it offends some people. There are privacy and defamation laws to protect private individuals from unjustified slander, any organization, ideology and company definitely should be absolutely free target for criticism and jokes.

And you are free to do all those things. But remember, free speech does NOT mean you can say anything you like and not be criticized for it. If you act like a boorish idiot, and people call you out on it, that's not a violation of your free speech, nor is it "PC gone mad". It's just people calling a spade a spade, and that is protected speech.
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pvjin
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 274):
And you are free to do all those things. But remember, free speech does NOT mean you can say anything you like and not be criticized for it. If you act like a boorish idiot, and people call you out on it, that's not a violation of your free speech, nor is it "PC gone mad". It's just people calling a spade a spade, and that is protected speech.

I'm not so sure if I'm free to do that. At least here in Finland I've seen number of cases where "hate speech" law has been abused to suppress discussion that really doesn't meet the definition, or it has been used only in a selective manner. One particular case that I remember is the one where a social justice warrior first asked whether killing people under influence of alcohol is in genes of Finnish people.

Then another person wrote a sarcastic reply where he asked whether whether robbing people and living on welfare are a genetic characters of Somali people.

Guess what, only the latter got prosecuted using "hate speech" law.

Also, here people have been prosecuted for calling prophet Muhammad a pedophile based on the parts of the Quran that talk about his marriage to a young girl. I don't know a case of anyone getting prosecuted for insulting Jesus or other important Christian character during last two decades. There are blatant double standards when it comes to these issues.

I do believe in freedom of and from religion, I think generally people's beliefs should be respected as long as they cause no harm to others, I don't support unconstructive and unnecessarily insulting attacks against any religion, like those insults against the prophet Muhammad. However, insulting any religion or religious character shouldn't be illegal, no matter how tasteless it is. If we criminalize insulting and mockery of religion there's a high possibility someone will eventually use the law to suppress legitimate criticism, sometimes it's difficult to draw an exact line between these things anyway.

[Edited 2015-04-26 20:51:20]
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 275):
insulting any religion or religious character shouldn't be illegal, no matter how tasteless it is

Ok, but what about the actual topic of this thread, which is someone not having their contract renewed because they punched a co-worker after being offered a cold sandwich instead of a hot steak?

Not at all defensible, thus the ramblings about political correctness, double standards, etc.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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opethfan
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:42 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 276):
Ok, but what about the actual topic of this thread, which is someone not having their contract renewed because they punched a co-worker after being offered a cold sandwich instead of a hot steak?

Not at all defensible, thus the ramblings about political correctness, double standards, etc.

I completely agree. However, considering what we've heard from Mr. Tymon seems to imply that he doesn't wish to pursue the issue any further (though I could be wrong). Therefore, considering the millions of pounds at stake with the Top Gear property, perhaps the organization would have been smarter to have not "pressed charges" similar to a police investigation. Some reparations for the wronged party, a mutually agreed "time out" or donation to a workplace violence cause, and essentially everyone wins. The BBC gets to save face (and 30 million a year) and say "we held an investigation and the wronged parties have found a suitable solution;" Mr. Tymon gets to not be the most hated man in the British motoring media, and probably would get a sizable payout to stay stumm; Clarkson gets to keep the job he's poured himself into for decades but with some intervention.
 
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting opethfan (Reply 277):
However, considering what we've heard from Mr. Tymon seems to imply that he doesn't wish to pursue the issue any further (though I could be wrong). Therefore, considering the millions of pounds at stake with the Top Gear property, perhaps the organization would have been smarter to have not "pressed charges" similar to a police investigation. Some reparations for the wronged party, a mutually agreed "time out" or donation to a workplace violence cause, and essentially everyone wins.

The answer is pretty simple:

Quote:

Announcing his decision, Lord Hall said Clarkson's dismissal was unavoidable.

"For me a line has been crossed. There cannot be one rule for one and one rule for another dictated by either rank, or public relations and commercial considerations."

The decision really had nothing to do with Tymon wanted or didn't want.

Clarkson's actions crossed a line, after several warnings, and it was one line that he could not stop himself from crossing.

Ref: http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32052736
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
opethfan
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 278):

Well, it's Mr. Hall's organization's money he wants to be rid of.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 278):
it was one line that he could not stop himself from crossing.

That's a given. If he could have stopped himself, he would have stopped himself.

I find his statement somewhat flawed though. If I go to a police station and say "I hit John over here" and John says "Yeah he hit me, but it's not a big deal, don't press charges" the police don't charge anyone. They'll probably tell you to leave for wasting their time.

And the "warnings" are no more serious than tumblr posts printed on nasty paper and sold at W.H.Smith's. The British press are jokes, and either hate Clarkson because he's "on the right" (The Guardian), because hating things is what the right love to do (The Daily Mail), or because it sells to the same demographic as titty pics (The Sun)

Some of the same papers that have attacked Clarkson and called for his head, Clarkson writes columns for. There is no spine, there is no credibility in these mudslings (the "slope" debacle was probably the worst - as if a dozen executives don't screen and approve a "controversial" pre-watershed flagship show. Hah.)

I might not be so bothered if the real report was released, but what was published publicly was some of the poorest-written, most nondescript bunch of loaded language that it makes a politician's speech look substantial. The taxpaying public (of which I used to be a member of) are expected to accept tens of millions of money gone from the public broadcaster as a result of this decision, yet the details aren't made available.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:32 am

Hmmmmm . . . I have to admit I don't know much about Clarkson's views, as I always assumed his opinions to be overblown fluff designed to be provocative, but I was surprised to read in his Sunday Times column this week he's quite the liberal leftie on the refugee crisis in the Med. He believes we should let them all in, "because we are human beings".

Was he always a big softie, or is this a new departure on foot of the TG controversy?
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:36 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 280):
I have to admit I don't know much about Clarkson's views, as I always assumed his opinions to be overblown fluff designed to be provocative, but I was surprised to read in his Sunday Times column this week he's quite the liberal leftie on the refugee crisis in the Med. He believes we should let them all in, "because we are human beings".

Hi editorials and his persona on Top Gear are often at odds with each other. He's an excellent writer and have some very valid points, points which do not sit well with many but make absolute sence. He is also a staunch defender of the motorist, for that he must be applauded.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:55 pm

Quoting opethfan (Reply 279):
If I go to a police station and say "I hit John over here" and John says "Yeah he hit me, but it's not a big deal, don't press charges" the police don't charge anyone. They'll probably tell you to leave for wasting their time.

So how do you decide how much beating an employee can do before you consider it a firing offense?

There's lots of things you can do that won't result in civil or criminal charges but will get you fired.

Clarkson certainly found one of them.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
CXB77L
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 278):
after several warnings

... none of which were deserved. It was the result of the BBC bowing to political correctness.

Anyway, what's done is done, and BBC will learn the hard way that without Clarkson, Hammond and May, there will be no Top Gear. The three of them made the show the immense success that it was.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:10 pm

The BBC is dying, Clarkson will probably make more money with the other 2 elsewhere than with this broadcasting dinosaur. They went from documentaries like Blue Planet/Planet Earth to nothing but z list celebrity dance/sing offs and gutter level soaps 24/7. They have ridiculously bias politics programmes and the news seems like it is funded by some sheikh in Qatar.

Nothing amusing, informative or interesting is left. Tedious low budget drivel while they pay themselves bonuses with License payers money. I think Dr Who is the only thing I would watch.
 
bjcc
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:46 pm

" It's just people calling a spade a spade, and that is protected speech."

In the Uk you would have just said something (apparently) deeply disrespectful and rasist.....Or in sensible speak, you would have said something that someone will then say they found offensive, usually as an excuse for thier own misbehaviour or in an effort to gain finacially.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting bjcc (Reply 285):
" It's just people calling a spade a spade, and that is protected speech."

In the Uk you would have just said something (apparently) deeply disrespectful and rasist.....Or in sensible speak, you would have said something that someone will then say they found offensive, usually as an excuse for thier own misbehaviour or in an effort to gain finacially.

No, it isn't disrespectful or racist to most people in the UK. I've used that expression all my life and nobody has ever professed offence, used it as an excuse to misbehave, nor tried to get anything from me financially. Nor has anybody I know experienced anything similar.

90% of these supposed incidents are cooked up stories by the Mail and the Express- they're not things that happen to real people that often. That's not to say they don't happen, but I'd say the vast majority of those moaning about political correctness are just indignant that somebody called them out on their odious nature.
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opethfan
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 280):
Was he always a big softie, or is this a new departure on foot of the TG controversy?

In page 181 of On Cars, a collection of his motoring columns from the 1980s, he writes "For the fourth time in thirteen years, Britain has elected a Conservative government. Though it was clear by 2am that the forces of good would triumph, I stayed up until four so that I could watch that man Kinnock squirming in defeat. It was a glorious sight."

Yet we also know that in 2008 he wrote about being an atheist and having little optimism about the impact of religion on world affairs. He is also very pro-Europe.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 281):
Hi editorials and his persona on Top Gear are often at odds with each other. He's an excellent writer and have some very valid points, points which do not sit well with many but make absolute sence. He is also a staunch defender of the motorist, for that he must be applauded.

Although he does ride a bicycle and has lauded Copenhagen for the success of its bike lanes.
 
bjcc
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:26 am

Zck

You start with saying it's not racist, then go onto to say that its sometimes found to be. Which is it?
 
iowaman
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RE: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended

Fri May 01, 2015 1:13 am

Due to length of this thread part two has been started: Top Gear - Clarkson Suspended Part 2 (by iowaman Apr 30 2015 in Non Aviation)

This thread will be archived for further replies.

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