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LAX772LR
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Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:04 pm

I don't even know what to say about stuff like this:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120608031839-creflo-dollar-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/




The saddest part? ...he'll probably get enough suckers well-intended people to do just that.

I grew up in the Southern mega-church system, and I came to despise it. People who became multi-millionaires off of tax-free donations, using tithing doctrine to convince people to hand over money, in exchange for a future blessing to come.

It'd be one thing if their parishes were composed of wealthy eccentrics with nothing better to do-- but they're not. It's often elderly, and on fixed (low!) incomes, who are emotionally desperate to improve their situations.

This Creflo Dollar seems to be among the worst of them. I don't know him, nor do I wish to: but from what I can observe, something just seems so wrong with his constant harping on personal wealth and appeal for donations. Same for his associate, Leroy Thompson.

Here's a video of the two of them, doing their infamous "money dance," as the crowd roars, and races to put even more of their cash up there. Make of it what you will.

https://youtu.be/AYxeTjrckl0




*sigh*  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:20 pm

Benny Hinn Ministries has some kind of business-jet as do I am sure several "for show" religious leaders. To them, religion is a business and that's it. They make money on people who feel a connection to God via these evangelical services. Unfortunately it's often the lower-class and working-poor who put their faith in so-called "messengers of God" to the point of spending whatever money they have to get these people to pray for them to win the lottery. I do identify with religion and feel people are entitled to believe and worship who they choose to however when people use religion as a business it's calling taking advantage of people.
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:27 pm

The reason for him wanting a new jet:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Terry Wade


Sounds like quite the character. Private jet, two Rolls Royces, a couple of million dollar homes in Atlanta & New York. I'm amazed they can make this crap work without even belonging to a denomination.

Sounds like a god excuse as any to link this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfX3uA15RM

Edit: Good grief, that is indeed Creflo Dollar together with Kenneth Copeland.

[Edited 2015-03-13 14:30:04]
 
desertjets
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:33 pm

Why stop at a G-650, God likes to travel in style why not ask the parishioners to fund a BBJ instead?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:56 pm

Check out Joel "Reverend Blinky" Osteen's crash pad in Houston:

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/r...ll-tanglewood-land-for-11-million/

P T Barnum has to be laughing in his grave at the thought of the Lakewood Church membership.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 3):
Why stop at a G-650, God likes to travel in style why not ask the parishioners to fund a BBJ instead?

See, that's the critical thinking that I find is just plain stunted in his congregation here....

1) Why do you need a G650?
2) Why does it have to be new?
3) Why do you need to be flying privately at all-- where do you go that the Big3 don't fly, routinely and often?

....it's sad that so many people won't even stop to think about any of the above. And many that do, will just be told "Because that's that God wants," and be satisfied with that answer.


Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 4):
Check out Joel "Reverend Blinky" Osteen's crash pad in Houston:

His claim is that he doesn't take money from church/titles, only from his book sales and speaking engagements.

I have no idea how true it is, but I guess it's plausible. No quarrel with his extravagance, if that's the case.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
Creflo Dollar

There's this saying in Latin – nomen est omen ("the name is a sign"). It is true surprisingly often.
'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:37 pm

The gullibility of people never ceases to amaze me. It seems the deep South is fertile ground for this type of religious fraud. The desparate and the poor are the victims usually. The government stands by for the most part while these thieves get rich all in the name of God. When I see this type, I laugh, they are such pathetic actors, and yet they continue to flourish. What does this say about these poor souls who get taken?
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A342
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:58 pm

Has the video been taken off their website?

Anyway, what I find truly shocking:

"The video includes parishioners, a pilot, a project manager and even the President of Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, advocating on behalf of the pastor."

Her country is being ravaged by Ebola, and a new $70M toy for some stupid pastor is all she worries about?  
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:17 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 8):

Probably all on the payroll.
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fr8mech
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:23 am

It's really a shame that people fall for these charlatans and the drivel they shovel.

I suspect the same base level psychology is at work here as what the Islamists use to get people to blow themselves up or to support their cause:

A little pity
A little empathy
A touch of fear
A promise of something better

This guy asks for money, others ask for more.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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bhill
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:31 am

Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs???? I mean how much gold gilded decor do you NEED to get closer to God??? I mean REALLY!!! Jesus himself only needed a staff of 12 and a single ass.....
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WarRI1
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:41 am

All glory to God, the cash to them about sums it up.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 8):
Her country is being ravaged by Ebola, and a new $70M toy for some stupid pastor is all she worries about?

Yeah, but you have to think like a religious person:
God isn't happy with your country, that's why this is happening... so help me get a new private jet, and I'll ask him to back off of you for a minute. Deal?



Quoting bhill (Reply 11):
Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs?

Don't even get me started on that fraud... ugh!
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Mir
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
The reason for him wanting a new jet:

Seems like God sending a message.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I suspect the same base level psychology is at work here as what the Islamists use to get people to blow themselves up or to support their cause:

It's the same psychology that any corrupt religion uses to convince people to do things not in their own interest for the benefit of those running the religion.

-Mir
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ltbewr
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:01 pm

I believe there needs to be a major tightening of the laws as to religious and charity group tax exemptions in the USA as well as regulations on compensation of leaders, executives and expenses. Perhaps Dollar wants a new a/c to fly around his concubines and move cash around to tax dodging locations. Pope Francis has tried to live a more austere style as an example to and has cracked down on some of the too high living priests, bishops and Cardinals. People like this phony Rev. Dollar need to live like their humble followers. That is how the message of Christ should be delivered, not on a $40 Million jet.
 
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting bhill (Reply 11):
Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs???? I mean how much gold gilded decor do you NEED to get closer to God??? I mean REALLY!!! Jesus himself only needed a staff of 12 and a single ass.....

to be fair, the stuff is old and gold gilded stuff doesn't have much commercial value. A german bishop just got demoted to a more humble place of service because he overdid his private residence ... so, it's not really compare able. The current pope is living in a two room Appartement. .

Best regards
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casinterest
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:34 pm

This all reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprQGmZ3Imw
Jesus he knows me.
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:29 pm

I'm a lapsed Catholic who goes to church on Easter and Christmas. The pastor at the parish that I attend always seemed like a great priest. He was recently suspended for "accounting irregularities". It seems like he was padding his pockets from a parish fund. The archdiocese immediately suspended him, announced it to the media, and got the FBI involved. Yet, look at all the pedophile priests that were protected over the years. I guess the moral of the story is - altar boys are fair game but don't dare f**k with the Church's money.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:27 pm

A G650? What's wrong with chartering a plane from Alitalia when you need it?   

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
not on a $40 Million jet.

A believe a new G650 will start well north of that.
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usflyer msp
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:56 pm

I have a cousin that is a long-time member of this church. He and his wife are well-educated professional people (He is a CPA and an auditor for DL) but somehow they cannot see through this nonsense. I have been to World Changers once and it was quite surreal. The church has a roped-off VIP section (with bouncers!!!!), like a nightclub, for the high-rollers of the church and then, most bizarrely, during his sermon people randomly run up to the pulpit and throw wads of cash at him, kind of like a strip club. He has his congregation quite spell-bound and unfortunately, he will get his jet and whatever else he wants. I just have to shake my head.
 
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
I believe there needs to be a major tightening of the laws as to religious and charity group tax exemptions in the USA as well as regulations on compensation of leaders, executives and expenses.

While I don't disagree with you, we need to tread very carefully in this area.

The First Amendment prevents the government from establishing a particular religion. The other part of that is that the government may not oppose a particular religion.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Thread starter):

I don't even know what to say about stuff like this:

I do.

This is one of the many things that organized religion does. It's a scheme for making money, in addition to gaining power. The Vatican has jewels that defy the imagination. All the apartments near the central mosque in Mecca are outrageously expensive, not to mention the way that the Sauds have enriched themselves on a mix of oil and religious doctrine. There are Buddhist and Hindu temples painted in gold leaf. I can't think of a major religion that is immune to these sorts of things. Actually, while some Reform and Conservative Jewish temples pay their rabbis a lot, I don't see this a lot in Judaism...but maybe I'm just missing it.

Bottom line, the idea of men preaching morality and then retreating to their opulent chambers to count their gold is not a new one. And humans continue to be stupid enough to fall for it, even in 2015.
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:19 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
Private jet, two Rolls Royces, a couple of million dollar homes in Atlanta & New York.

We had one of those types in Oregon back in the early 1980s. When his right hand woman tried to poison the population so they could take over Wasco County, they were run out of the country but quick!
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LAX772LR
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
during his sermon people randomly run up to the pulpit and throw wads of cash at him, kind of like a strip club

Very common with this genre of religion. Look at the video posted in the OP, you'll see people doing just that.


Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
We had one of those types in Oregon back in the early 1980s. When his right hand woman tried to poison the population so they could take over Wasco County, they were run out of the country but quick!

Interesting. Who were they?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting bhill (Reply 11):
Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs???? I mean how much gold gilded decor do you NEED to get closer to God??? I mean REALLY!!! Jesus himself only needed a staff of 12 and a single ass.....

   I don't know how anyone takes any religion seriously, but *especially* the catholics. I crawled out of Sunday school as soon as I could read  
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 22):
While I don't disagree with you, we need to tread very carefully in this area.

Simple. End the tax exemption for religion. If their god loves them as much as they think he does, he will provide.
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tommy1808
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
Simple. End the tax exemption for religion.

The German equivalent to the IRS can actually do that and decide that you are a commercial business, religion or not. Scientology has that problem here (ongoing legal battle) and in Austria they´ve lost....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
BMI727
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Thread starter):

I don't even know what to say about stuff like this:

The people giving him money are either dumb or just don't care. But what Dollar is doing isn't illegal since he isn't telling them he will provide a return on investment. In some ways his pitch is refreshingly honest: "Hey, give me money so I can buy myself a plane."

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 22):
The First Amendment prevents the government from establishing a particular religion. The other part of that is that the government may not oppose a particular religion.

It's the establishment part that is more worrying. Imagine if all religious organizations had to pay taxes, as some are calling for. That means that every Mormon organization in Utah would have to pay taxes so all of the sudden the state has a very real interest in ensuring that those organizations thrive and remain in the state to maintain the tax base. It would create a huge conflict of interest.

Furthermore, all of that money has already been taxed as income by the people earning it and they are giving it away with no real economic transaction.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
Simple. End the tax exemption for religion.

Terrible idea for the reasons I outline above.
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BoeingBear
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:45 pm

In ATL, Dollar's hometown, he's commonly referred to as "Cash-Flow Dollar." Now you know why.

That said, could we back off the anti-religion comments? For every "snake charmer" like Dollar, there are many more honest clergy and believers (of multiple religions) who practice what they preach and give selflessly of their time and treasure. Thanks!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:08 pm

I have to wonder if that can be his real name? I have never known anyone by that name, but yet that one fits him so well.
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AzoresLover
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
We had one of those types in Oregon back in the early 1980s. When his right hand woman tried to poison the population so they could take over Wasco County, they were run out of the country but quick!
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 24):
Interesting. Who were they?

Bhagwan Shree Rajneeshee and his commune. Daily rides in one of his many Rolls-Royces so followers could admire him. Tried to poison folks with salmonella in restaurants so he could take over the county. Also assassination attempts of government officials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack
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Cadet985
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:53 am

I don't see why everyone's so surprised! There's that pastor on late night TV that has this magical water that makes your debt and illnesses disappear.

(said facetiously)

Marc
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
I don't see why everyone's so surprised! There's that pastor on late night TV that has this magical water that makes your debt and illnesses disappear.

Nothing really surprises me anymore, there is an ass for every seat, and some people are doomed to be screwed over. That is polite way of saying, some people are not too bright.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 29):
I have to wonder if that can be his real name?

I don't know if that's his birth name, but it is indeed his legal name.


Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
There's that pastor on late night TV that has this magical water that makes your debt and illnesses disappear

Robert Tilton was chief among these, until busted in an expose which his guilt-ridden housekeeper (of all people) helped break. There's plenty of others though, who do the same with the holy water.

Funnily enough, he's also the preacher well known throughout YouTube/EbaumsWorld for the "preacher farts" videos, due to his constant facial expressions that indeed look like they're induced by a gigantic flatulence bomb.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SmithAir747
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:03 am

There is a preacher, Ernest Angley (Angley Ministries), who owns a private 747SP, registered P4-FSH, nicknamed "Star Triple Seven", which he uses to transport missionaries and humanitarian aid worldwide (or so he claims). It has a private bedroom onboard.


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SmithAir747
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fr8mech
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Simple. End the tax exemption for religion. If their god loves them as much as they think he does, he will provide.

Not that simple. There are 2 points here:

As BMI stated, if a church becomes a tax-paying entity, the State now has an interest in keeping a particular church viable. In fact, I can easily see the State choosing to 'prop' up one church over another based on tax revenues.

Second, the power to tax, is the power ti destroy.

Having said that, I do believe that we need to revisit our tax laws and do a better job of scrutinizing churches as they are treated in the tax code. I just don't see a very easy, objective way to do it.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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DocLightning
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 35):

As BMI stated, if a church becomes a tax-paying entity, the State now has an interest in keeping a particular church viable. In fact, I can easily see the State choosing to 'prop' up one church over another based on tax revenues.

I have a simple solution. Treat churches like non-profits. Those small churches that don't preach politics and don't pay their pastors 8-figure salaries will be unaffected. If they are raking in millions and millions or making political efforts, then tax them as businesses.

And I don't see why taxes on churches would make the state start favoring one religion over another. States are supposed to be impartial in matters of inter-business competition.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 27):
That means that every Mormon organization in Utah would have to pay taxes so all of the sudden the state has a very real interest in ensuring that those organizations thrive and remain in the state to maintain the tax base. It would create a huge conflict of interest.

OK, OK. I see what you mean. Then again, isn't that already the case? The state of Utah is pretty much owned by the LDS Church. I mean, they don't even allow bars. But if the LDS Church wants to run as a For-Profit business marketing salvation, then wouldn't it be better for such ties to be out in the open?
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747400sp
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:49 am

I don't know what to say.
 
L-188
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:01 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 16):
Quoting bhill (Reply 11):Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs???? I mean how much gold gilded decor do you NEED to get closer to God??? I mean REALLY!!! Jesus himself only needed a staff of 12 and a single ass.....
to be fair, the stuff is old and gold gilded stuff doesn't have much commercial value.

I can't really hold keeping three-four hundred year old religious pieces and cathedrals around against a modern pope.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 21):
The First Amendment prevents the government from establishing a particular religion. The other part of that is that the government may not oppose a particular religion.

God knows Obama thinks he is a god.

Quoting AzoresLover (Reply 30):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):We had one of those types in Oregon back in the early 1980s. When his right hand woman tried to poison the population so they could take over Wasco County, they were run out of the country but quick!Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 24):Interesting. Who were they?
Bhagwan Shree Rajneeshee and his commune. Daily rides in one of his many Rolls-Royces so followers could admire him. Tried to poison folks with salmonella in restaurants so he could take over the county. Also assassination attempts of government officials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack

I remember that guy, he was a nut case, if memory serves he got deported on tax evasion and died in India. Like Capone I don't think they ever got him on the attempted murders
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Aesma
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
I don't know how anyone takes any religion seriously, but *especially* the catholics. I crawled out of Sunday school as soon as I could read  

There is no tithe in Catholicism and when you give money it mostly goes to pay for your local church/priest etc., who certainly don't have a big salary (some even have a job). The Vatican owns plenty of things that bring money.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 26):
The German equivalent to the IRS can actually do that and decide that you are a commercial business, religion or not. Scientology has that problem here (ongoing legal battle) and in Austria they´ve lost....

But you have established religions, even forcing people to pay taxes for theirs !
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BMI727
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 35):
I just don't see a very easy, objective way to do it.

Enact FairTax so none of it matters.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
I have a simple solution. Treat churches like non-profits. Those small churches that don't preach politics and don't pay their pastors 8-figure salaries will be unaffected. If they are raking in millions and millions or making political efforts, then tax them as businesses.

That's the opposite of simple. And the opposite of constitutional too.

Where do you draw the line? Does the government set a rate of permissible clergy pay? Is it a flat rate or per attendee?

It puts the government in a position of deciding what is or is not a legitimate religion, which by default violates separation of church and state.

Furthermore, doing that means that you are literally putting government restrictions on what doctrines can be preached. One belief gets taxed, another does not. It's a blatant violation of separation of church and state.

There is a whole strange sect of Christians who believe that if you give money to the church, God will make you rich. (I don't know if this Dollar is part of that, but I'd bet he is) Treating churches and pastors who live too extravagantly differently would amount to the government literally not allowing people to practice what they preach.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
Then again, isn't that already the case? The state of Utah is pretty much owned by the LDS Church.

Utah is pretty much owned by members of the LDS church. There's nothing wrong with people taking their beliefs with them when they go to vote. Putting a religious establishment in a position of being a stakeholder in the government is a bigger issue. And for what it's worth, I don't think a ban on bars is a legitimate policy and should be struck down.

[Edited 2015-03-14 23:58:29]
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MaverickM11
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 27):
It's the establishment part that is more worrying. Imagine if all religious organizations had to pay taxes, as some are calling for. That means that every Mormon organization in Utah would have to pay taxes so all of the sudden the state has a very real interest in ensuring that those organizations thrive and remain in the state to maintain the tax base. It would create a huge conflict of interest.

The mormon church isn't leaving the holy land.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 35):
the State now has an interest in keeping a particular church viable. In fact, I can easily see the State choosing to 'prop' up one church over another based on tax revenues.

I don't really see the problem as a) there's still a separation of church and state and b) it would make the relationship far more transparent. In most cases I don't think the tax revenue would be worthy pursuing anyway beyond property taxes; it's not like they're tech HQ promising thousands of jobs and loads of income to tax.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 39):
There is no tithe in Catholicism and when you give money it mostly goes to pay for your local church/priest etc., who certainly don't have a big salary (some even have a job). The Vatican owns plenty of things that bring money.

At the local church level it's a less odious, but in the grand scheme of things you have an uber wealthy church preaching humility and morals, when it has demonstrated repeatedly it has neither.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:53 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
This is one of the many things that organized religion does. It's a scheme for making money, in addition to gaining power. The Vatican has jewels that defy the imagination. All the apartments near the central mosque in Mecca are outrageously expensive, not to mention the way that the Sauds have enriched themselves on a mix of oil and religious doctrine. There are Buddhist and Hindu temples painted in gold leaf. I can't think of a major religion that is immune to these sorts of things. Actually, while some Reform and Conservative Jewish temples pay their rabbis a lot, I don't see this a lot in Judaism...but maybe I'm just missing it.

Bottom line, the idea of men preaching morality and then retreating to their opulent chambers to count their gold is not a new one. And humans continue to be stupid enough to fall for it, even in 2015.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
I have a simple solution. Treat churches like non-profits. Those small churches that don't preach politics and don't pay their pastors 8-figure salaries will be unaffected. If they are raking in millions and millions or making political efforts, then tax them as businesses.

And I don't see why taxes on churches would make the state start favoring one religion over another. States are supposed to be impartial in matters of inter-business competition.

I like post 36 a lot more than post 22. At first I thought maybe you were talking about local pastors and not the "main office" types.

The point on favoring one church over another would be like a state choosing to build an interstate ramp for one company who might move jobs to the state over an established company who won't add revenue. I think Texas does this kind of bribery frequently. To make it a religious example, Utah could try to get the Methodists to move from Nashville by offering to allow bars... umm never mind... OK maybe they suspend all taxes on grape juice?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
OK, OK. I see what you mean. Then again, isn't that already the case? The state of Utah is pretty much owned by the LDS Church. I mean, they don't even allow bars. But if the LDS Church wants to run as a For-Profit business marketing salvation, then wouldn't it be better for such ties to be out in the open?

Chicago was heavily influenced by the Catholic Church and there are lots of bars, open to 4AM.
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tommy1808
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:59 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 39):
But you have established religions,

yes, we do... so does every other country or not?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 39):
even forcing people to pay taxes for theirs !

odd, o am living here for almost 40 years, yet no one ever forced me to pay a church tax....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
a) there's still a separation of church and state

That separation begins to breakdown if you force a church to pay taxes. Again, you'll find the State looking at churches and trying to decide which is the more profitable church. It is the nature of government to look for the best revenue generator and favor them.

The next part: if we tax churches, will we allow them to make contributions to political parties and/or individual candidates?

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 43):
yes, we do... so does every other country or not?

The United States does not.
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mikelive
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:14 pm

UPDATE... To no one's surprise, the campaign has disappeared from the church's main website. However, it seems that worshippers can still give up their hard-earned monies to the website's donations page.



http://www.11alive.com/story/news/lo...nts-millions-for-new-jet/70287852/
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting bhill (Reply 11):
Yeah...man have you seen the Pope's digs????

The Pope doesn't own them and can't pass it on to any kids.
 
bhill
Posts: 1890
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 38):
I can't really hold keeping three-four hundred year old religious pieces and cathedrals around against a modern pope.

I do not....but he voluntarily ran for the office...seems to me it would better to "spread the Word" by selling those icons and "spread the cash" to better serve the poor.. invest it in vaccines, like Ebola...

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):
That separation begins to breakdown if you force a church to pay taxes. Again, you'll find the State looking at churches and trying to decide which is the more profitable church. It is the nature of government to look for the best revenue generator and favor them.

On property taxes???? Real simple...no breaks!!! x sq/ft = x $$$...just like mine...no exceptions. What you WILL see is less Churches in the pricier taxing areas like Scottsdale, Beverly Hills, etc. And more where they are needed in the poorer towns and cities...And like me, they can deduct it on thier 1040's.....

As for the 1st Amendment....do Witches get invited to give a prayer when Congress opens for session???

Right.....
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FlightShadow
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RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:09 pm

Did anyone else notice that the CNN article says the G650 they're looking at can get from JFK to LAX in 2 1/2 hours? I didn't know they were going to go for the supersonic model 
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
This is one of the many things that organized religion does. It's a scheme for making money, in addition to gaining power.

Some organized religions, yes. Not all. There are all kinds in religion. Just like these forums.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
The state of Utah is pretty much owned by the LDS Church. I mean, they don't even allow bars.

LOL. Can't make this stuff up... After 10+ years in Utah, I can tell you there are plenty of bars and lots of flowing alcohol. Lots of mormons owning businesses in Utah does not equal mormons owning Utah.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 40):
And for what it's worth, I don't think a ban on bars is a legitimate policy and should be struck down.

The State of Utah doesn't think it is a legitimate policy either, nor would the LDS church for that matter, but it doesn't exist in the first place so it's a moot point.

[Edited 2015-03-15 12:23:07]
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tommy1808
Posts: 14626
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Pastor Wants Church/public To Buy Him New G-650

Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):
The United States does not.

you exempt them from taxes, obviously they are recognized.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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