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Dreadnought
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Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:17 am

You just have to laugh...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/

I bet you the administration backpedals on these comments pretty quickly.

Personally, I have no problem with mandatory voting, in part because it would force the states to know and record exactly who voted, where and when, and keep records. Which is exactly what the Democratic Party does not want because it would negate a lot of the fraud they get into.

So by all means, Go for it, Mr. President! But I can just see his handlers going "Oh, shit!"
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fr8mech
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Personally, I have no problem with mandatory voting, in part because it would force the states to know and record exactly who voted, where and when, and keep records.

I guess that would be the only real benefit.

I am not a fan of compulsory voting. If someone doesn't want want to vote, why would I want to force him to vote? If someone doesn't want to vote, is he really going to be an informed voter? We have enough of that right now, don't we?

I have the right to vote and I have the right not to vote.

[Edited 2015-03-21 00:33:30]
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Which is exactly what the Democratic Party does not want because it would negate a lot of the fraud they get into.

Really - any evidence? I assume the Republicans are snow-white in this?
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tommy1808
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:59 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 1):
I am not a fan of compulsory voting. If someone doesn't want want to vote, why would I want to force him to vote? If someone doesn't want to vote, is he really going to be an informed voter? We have enough of that right now, don't we?

On the other hand you could add a "none of the above" choice to the ballot. That way at least those people living in some form of parallel universe, that doesn´t have any correlation to the world the rest of us lives in, aka politicians, can´t tell themselves all those non-voters are too lazy to vote anymore. They would get a fair 40% of the electorate thinks you are idiots across all media.

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BMI727
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:01 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Personally, I have no problem with mandatory voting,

I do. When you consider the difference between Republicans supposedly keeping people unlikely to vote for their candidates from voting and Democrats forcing people likely to vote for their candidates to vote, there's no good answer. It's a straight up double standard.

The right to vote is also a right not to vote.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 3):

On the other hand you could add a "none of the above" choice to the ballot.

You could, but why bother? The people that would choose "None of the above" would probably be your more informed voters, since they would understand that none of the candidates really represent their views.

If you can't be bothered to vote, don't vote. I don't want you there. Freaking elections are too much of a popularity contest now, as it is.

But, I agree with Dreadnaught, there is zero chance this gets any real traction...in either party. So, unless Emperor, errrr, President Obama decides he wants to issue a decree, errrrr, executive order and circumvent congress, it ain't going to happen.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:43 am

We have compulsory voting. Compulsory federal, state, by-elections, referendums, and local council in some states. I think it is more about turning up and getting your name crossed off, for those that are not into 'compulsory voting'. I don't have any further views to share, other than for non-compulsory countries, and then introduced, it would not be an easy adjustment to make.. we have had it for 50-100+ years, in varying places. May not, probably won't happen, but worthy of discussion value.. As mentioned, who, where, when.. the records. Then there is the issue of paper versus electronic.. both have been used here, the electronic is better at having the more accurate record keeping..
 
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 1):
I have the right to vote and I have the right not to vote.

To quote the band Rush - "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 1):
I guess that would be the only real benefit.

Probably. In all or most (?) of the EU, the government knows where you live, knows how old you are and knows if you are eligible to vote........................................... but we also have no buffoons who try to purge voting registers for lunatic reasons like "their names sound Spanish, surely they are illegal immigrants".

From a "election technology" view, the US is a developing country. In Switzerland, we still not have electronic voting machines, but we resort to drafting citizens to count votes manually, or to electronic counting of paper ballots (which always allow for manual recounting).

I'm split on the issue of mandatory voting. With mandatory voting, my vote has less value because I'm voting every time anyway. The lower the voter turnout, the more valuable my vote is.

On the other hand, knowing that voting is mandatory anyway, no false-flag organizations will turn up in black towns, and help the blacks casting votes that won't count. They'll simply await voting day, and turn up personally at the pre-designed voting place.

Voting can and should be simplified. No voter challenges. No provisional ballots. No possibility for me as a Swiss resident and Swiss citizen to go voting in Florida.


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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:35 pm

The whole voting process is archaic in the US. Fix that and I bet more people would vote. Why, in this day and with the technology available, do I need to go stand in a line, talk to one person who spends five minutes looking for my name in a beat up book, having me sign, sending me to another person who decides which ballot I get and then I go fill in little circles on a piece of paper. On line would get a whole lot more people voting.
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cedarjet
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:49 pm

America has enough low information voters as it is.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:23 pm

People do need to get involved in voting. No question. But, what should be more important is how two parties control this country and how it got that way: money. If this were truly a free country, we would have more than just two sides of the same coin. We need more and varied voices in the legislative process. As it stands, when legislation comes up, one side says "yes, this is great" and the other side says "no, it is bad." What about what We The People think?

I know what people will say: too many cooks spoil the broth and that could be true, too. But, what we need long before mandatory voting is to get money out of elections. Corporations are NOT people, my friend. If they were, they would have one vote like the rest of us instead of owning 535 members of Congress and how many more judges.
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mham001
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:52 pm

This would probably require a Contitutional Amendment, that's not going to happen for several reasons.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Really - any evidence? I assume the Republicans are snow-white in this?

Haha, when was the last time a Republican was elected in Chicago?
 
bmacleod
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:40 pm

If this ever sees light-of-day, who would benefit..Democrats or Republicans?
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tommy1808
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 13):
Democrats or Republicans?

since those people not voting don't care or don't like either. .. probably a 3rd party may finally have a shot? Maybe the green?

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Thomas
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):

Yeah, any sensible improvement in US democracy would see the entrance of some more parties. An extremely fractioned political landscape like in Israel isn't good, either. The current politics of Germany isn't good, either (the opposition is so small that it cannot, on its own accord, institute an investigative commission to probe the government's misdoings).


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tommy1808
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 15):
(the opposition is so small that it cannot, on its own accord, institute an investigative commission to probe the government's misdoings).

as we now see with the US government threatening the German government into submission to block the NSA parliamentary commission by threatening to let terrorist strikes just happen in Germany if we grand Snowden asylum ....
On the other hand... Two parties aren't stellar on making stuff public ain't working that good either.

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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:32 pm

Making it easier to vote would accomplish much the same result. Internet voting is more secure than the mail-in paper ballots allowed in most states.

Another option is that instead of mandatory voting you could just have an incentive to vote. Gain the desirable benefit of more participation while still allowing those who are dead-set not to participate the option to be an idiot.

Just a small incentive would be adequate: like a free french fries at McDonald's or free song download from iTunes, etc...; probably you could get the private sector to cough up these benefits without taxpayer cost.



Pu
 
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 17):
Internet voting is more secure than the mail-in paper ballots allowed in most states.

Internet voting is about as save as Internet banking. ...pretty secure, but not good enough, especially because it can be done pretty much without a trace unless the hackers/botnet owners run into a honey pot. And that will just tell you some one tried something, finding out about the extent is a different story.

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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 17):
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 18):

Internet voting must be bomb-proof. The servers hosting the election must be certified, and any kind of attack shouldn't alter the voting result. A DoS attack for example might demand extension of a voting deadline until the troubles are sorted out.

For your enjoyment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY_pHvhE4os - in this sometimes very amusing video, J. Alex Halderman, an e-voting specialist from the University of Michigan, presents you how an otherwise quite reasonable e-voting system can still be a catastrophe. 

The huge benefit of postal voting (or personal voting at the ballot box) is that you exactly know what can go wrong. That's why I see money in my wallet as more secure than a credit card in the same wallet.


David
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DDR
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:04 pm

in the DDR you were strongly encouraged to vote. Of course your vote didn't really matter. The decision of the outcome came from Moscow.

I don't think voting in the United States will ever be mandatory. Just too many people would fight it. Would be nice to see a third party have a chance though.

I doubt Internet voting will ever happen either. Look at the mess that was the Obama Care website. Plus, it would probably get hacked anyway.
 
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:21 pm

Some thoughts. As in religious freedom, the freedom not to chose any religion must be guaranteed. In a democracy, you have the right to remain silent, and not cast a vote for or against anything. And the secrecy of your vote (what or who you have voted for, and if you did vote at all) must be maintained.

Mandatory voting destroys that right.

Many people though only start to think when they're forced to chose. That's why pupils and students have to write that many essays, personally deciding about an issue. They can't cheat by handing in another person's essay. They've got to think for themselves. Sad you cannot vote with essays, or represent your genuine and unadulturated opinion in Congress.


David
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tommy1808
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 19):
The servers hosting the election must be certified, and any kind of attack shouldn't alter the voting result. A DoS attack for example might demand extension of a voting deadline until the troubles are sorted out.

The big problem is the client side. Server side is pretty much halfway doable, but on a nnon-managed windows end user system it is much to easy to fake the click.

And with what we know about the 5 eyes capabilities online, would you really want to trust an Internet vote?

Do we get a little of topic here?

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Thomas
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Kiwirob
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:32 pm

Rather than making voting mandatory, the US should fix the electoral college system, it should be the popular vote that decides the election.
 
DDR
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):

Oh no, I finally agree with KiwiRob on something.

But he is 100% right. Until that gets fixed, the typical American does not really elect the President.
 
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 13):
If this ever sees light-of-day, who would benefit..Democrats or Republicans?

In non-presidential election years, Democrats would definitely benefit since historically Republicans have much higher turnout than Democrats in those years. However, in presidential years I think Democrats typically have slightly higher turnout than Republicans, so it is possible that Republicans may benefit in presidential election years.

I think the lack of Democratic turnout in non-presidential election years is a likely driving force why Obama wants mandatory voting, which is bad.

[Edited 2015-03-21 15:59:01]
 
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pu
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 18):
Internet voting is about as save as Internet banking

I was a banker before I retired. Our losses to in-person fraud were 10x as high as online fraud. For every euro we lost in an online scam, we lost 10 euros by people just walking into local banks with fake ids, forged signatures, altered documents and the ability to talk their way around the employees.

Voting in the US is much the same. In person voting is mostly a joke as far as verifying identity or preventing fraud goes.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 19):
Internet voting must be bomb-proof

Maybe in Switzerland.

In the US the increased participation and increased security of on-line voting versus in-person or mailed-in-ballots is at least an order of magnitude. Everyone who wants to vote the old-fashioned way should still be allowed to, naturally. In the US their consumer credit bureaus, which are kind of corporate versions of the NSA, have cooperated with the government to create a system whereby a person's identity is assured to a better than one in one hundred thousand chance of error. So in a presidential election utilising this system there could be perhaps 1000 fraudulent votes nationwide

The number of people who know or could ever discover your mother's eye color, your first employer, and amount of monthly car payment are few and far between and hard to learn considering they randomly select about 1000 such data points known for each American in their identity process...

At this point you can show up at a US airport without an ID and still board an aircraft because of this system.

The systems, architecture, processes and disaster recovery need only match banking or the airline world to be a vast improvement of today's circus of thousands of local voting precincts all having no central oversight, security or professional management.




Pu.
 
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:18 am

IM gonna attempt to be pragmatic on a website where pragmatism is pretty damn rare


I think making voting mandatory would be a violation of free speech. Forcing someone to come to a polling station or face a fine or some sort of penalty means youre forcing someone to say something. Remaining silent is a right, and I directly interpret that as a right of free speech.

Australia is an oft-cited example of mandatory voting....it doesn't work. Julia and Abbott..... its like a comedy duo.


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Kent350787
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:21 am

As a PP said (and Obama IIRC), Australia has compulsory voting for all government elections. In reality, it is compulsory attendance, as you could simply put a blank ballot in the box. Informal voting (ie. not correctly completing the ballot) has been heading towards 10% in some recent elections.

Australian elections are held on Saturdays, so most voters don't need to take time of work, and booths are generally open from 8am-6pm. Pre-poll voting has long been available, and is now possible online.

I am a big fan of our system, as parties have a greater opportunity to concentrate on reasonable policy rather than increasingly dramatic tactics to get people to simply vote. The main downside is that you do get a proportion of uninformed voters.
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:40 am

Did anyone bother to listen or read Obama's statements? Where does it say he wants mandatory voting? Where does it say he wants a law passed to force everyone to vote? Where?

http://reverbpress.com/news/watch-ob...raged-fox-news-tells-whopping-lie/

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 28):
booths are generally open from 8am-6pm.

That's fine but our issue is, in minority neighborhoods, there are usually only one or two booths available. Blacks are lined up around the corner. That is an issue that needs to be addressed as well as getting money out of voting.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 28):
Pre-poll voting has long been available

That is being taken away from minority neighborhoods as well.

Guess which party is taking those things away?

[Edited 2015-03-21 19:43:19]
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ElanusNotatus
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 27):
Australia is an oft-cited example of mandatory voting....it doesn't work. Julia and Abbott..... its like a comedy duo.

It depends on what you mean by "it doesn't work". Mandatory enrollment for Australian federal elections was enacted as early as 1911 but mandatory voting was introduced in 1924. Ironically it was the right wing parties who introduced it, partly in an effort to reduce electioneering costs and partly due to fear of losing to the Labor Party.

There is nothing intrinsic to mandatory voting that leads to a choice between Twiddledee and Twiddledum - that is a result of Australia's peculiar prefential voting system that favours a two party outcome. A more directly proportional voting system could allow for a greater range of representation.

Whether you have compulsory voting or not, there is no guarantee that the electorate is better informed. Some voters will always favor a particilar party out of habit or fixed ideology. Some will seek out more information because they are dissatisfied with the majors and are looking for an alternative.

Perhaps the way to, increase involvement is for politicians to listen to what people actually want instead of promising the earth and then finding excuses for delivering very little, if anything. Instead of lies and point-scoring, childish obstructionism (opposing something not on merits but simply because the other side proposed it) and naked pursuit of self-interest, perhaps being honest and working together to address issues would encourage the electorate to believe that their voting can make a difference. If voters believe it will make a difference they might be more likely to vote and vote with discernment.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:42 am

Mandatory voting - because the only thing better for the Democratic Party than low-information voters are NO-information voters.   
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scamp
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:37 am

I think his heart's in the right place, but we don't need more uninformed voters out there. Frankly, I've always felt I owed it to the people who fought and died for our right to vote to be informed and vote.
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting scamp (Reply 32):
I think his heart's in the right place, but we don't need more uninformed voters out there.

Part of that comes because people are so dead set on "that source is not real news" mind set. If people would just say "sure, they say that half, now let's see what the other side says...." I see it all the time on this board and all over the country.

One story will say "Boehner is anti American because X" people get bent out of shape because "traitor!" or "he is taking a stand against Obama!" but if people would actually inform themselves, the real root of the story is probably (usually) less than what the media says.

The real news is dry. It does not sing. No one cares. People want blood. We should all be forced to watch C-SPAN mid week for at least an hour a week. That is real. That is government. *yawn*
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
do. When you consider the difference between Republicans supposedly keeping people unlikely to vote for their candidates from voting and Democrats forcing people likely to vote for their candidates to vote, there's no good answer. It's a straight up double standard.

The right to vote is also a right not to vote.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit lost. Typically, it's the other way around. The Republicans want to keep traditional democratic voters away from the polls, is that not why they gerrymander the hell out of districts and put all kinds of supposedly onerous restrictions on voters?

I have no trouble with voting being mandatory. People don't seem to understand that when you have a 34 percent voter turnout in a midterm election, the voter who didn't bother is getting the government that the 34 percent who did turn out want.

Personally, I don't want to be stuck with someone else's idea of a good government, that's why I've voted in every election I could from the day I turned 18. I may get someone else's idea of a good government anyway, but I want to be able to say that I went to the polls and voted for the people I support and the issues I care about.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 34):
gerrymander

Gerrymandering should be illegal. Period.

It is nearly the same as stuffing the ballot box. It achieves the same results and is done for just that purpose (too ensure/improve the chance a certain party wins). I do not see how it is allowed to continue.

Tugg
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flanker
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:18 am

So you let it in millions of illegals, promise amnesty and completely destroy the immigration system AND now mandatory voting? geeeeeeezeee couldn't see that one coming..
 
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Tugger
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting Flanker (Reply 36):
So you let it in millions of illegals, promise amnesty and completely destroy the immigration system AND now mandatory voting?

That would be the Republican's more likely. And most certainly if you disagree they are responsible the least you could claim is that they are equally culpable for the mess. Which invalidates your comment.

No need to be blind and inflammatory It will lead to you making poor choices when voting.

Tugg
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Kent350787
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 29):
That's fine but our issue is, in minority neighborhoods, there are usually only one or two booths available.

Yes, I'm aware of some of those issues. I was making the point that, along with compulsory attendance, we provide the means to do so as equitably as possible. Nearly every public school is a polling booth, as well as Town Halls and many churches. In cities, few people need to travel more than a mile to vote.

And I entirely agree, some of our voting outcomes are not the outcome of compulsory voting system here. Especially not Tony Abbott, objectively our worst prime minister in over 40 years.
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tommy1808
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 38):
In cities, few people need to travel more than a mile to vote.

same here... always had a voting booth in walking distance, never ever even had any line what soever in front of me. I always assumed that is the standard in a democracy and I think that is the only right way. Boy was I surprised. .. but after being told how it works in the us i wasn't that surprised anymore that about half my US friends never ever voted in their lifes, despite decent education and owning small businesses. That in contrast to my taiwanese friends living in the US, half of them not only fly home to cast their votes, they also fly home to remain eligible to vote inbetween.... thats the spirit!

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3250
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:28 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Which is exactly what the Democratic Party does not want because it would negate a lot of the fraud they get into.

Proof please

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
So, unless Emperor, errrr, President Obama

i really do have to laugh at that type of comment, it always comes from an American, who I would bet got it from Rush or the like and who has never, not for a single hour, lived or worked in a dictatorship, they just come across as.....Oh heck, to abide by forum rules, let's say uninformed.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 9):
On line would get a whole lot more people voting.
Quoting pu (Reply 17):
Internet voting is more secure than the mail-in paper ballots allowed in most states.
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 18):
Internet voting is about as save as Internet banking. ...pretty secure, but not good enough

That would be my major issue with it.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 19):
A DoS attack for example might demand extension of a voting deadline until the troubles are sorted out.

I can see half the US enemies in the world going after those servers.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
America has enough low information voters as it is.

Why be informed when you can get all your choices made for you by your favorite tv personality.

Quoting DDR (Reply 20):

I don't think voting in the United States will ever be mandatory. Just too many people would fight it.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 27):

I think making voting mandatory would be a violation of free speech. Forcing someone to come to a polling station or face a fine or some sort of penalty means youre forcing someone to say something. Remaining silent is a right, and I directly interpret that as a right of free speech.

PHX787 is correct, the supreme court would strike this down in a second.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Rather than making voting mandatory, the US should fix the electoral college system, it should be the popular vote that decides the election.
Quoting DDR (Reply 24):
Oh no, I finally agree with KiwiRob on something.

LOL, once and a while strange things happen on here, but I happen to agree with him as well.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 25):
However, in presidential years I think Democrats typically have slightly higher turnout than Republicans

Other way around.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 36):
So you let it in millions of illegals

The US has been averaging about 50,000 a year flow the other way, mostly to Mexico for the last 7 years....But you would have to do some research to find that out.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ut-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting Flanker (Reply 36):

So you let it in millions of illegals, promise amnesty and completely destroy the immigration system AND now mandatory voting? geeeeeeezeee couldn't see that one coming..


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist

Indeed. What could possibly go wrong?
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):

Rather than making voting mandatory, the US should fix the electoral college system, it should be the popular vote that decides the election.

And surrender the entire course of a nation to a handful of heavily populated cities? That should work out swimingly.  

Maybe they can later make everyone outside of the cities slaves to their eternal consumption of resources.

[Edited 2015-03-22 07:00:36]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3250
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 42):

Maybe they can later make everyone outside of the cities slaves to their eternal consumption of resources.

Hunger Games !

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 42):
And surrender the entire course of a nation to a handful of heavily populated cities? That should work out swimingly.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/rural-u...owest-in-history-demographers-say/

I wouldn't say a handful, there are a lot and they are spread pretty wide, at least until you hit the plains.

But interesting fact, if the US went by a popular vote, there would have only been one different outcome over the electoral college, that would have been in 2000 when Gore got more votes than George W Bush, but ended up with 5 less electoral votes.
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 42):
And surrender the entire course of a nation to a handful of heavily populated cities?

So, according to you, this last election was because of all the voting in cities and very little anywhere else? Which is why the tea faction kooks are in control.

Just to be clear: we have the Congress selected by low information voters. This is what Fox and MSM loves and has been trying for.

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 40):
The US has been averaging about 50,000 a year flow the other way, mostly to Mexico for the last 7 years....But you would have to do some research to find that out.

Shhhh!! Don't give them facts. That ruins their whole belief system. Let them destroy themselves with their own false narratives and echo chambers.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:12 pm

I wish people would vote more but I don't think we should force them. I guess I wouldn't really be against it, but I don't think it would technically be constitutional. And on the subject of low information voters, there are plenty on both sides. I listen to Rush and Sean Hannity and a few other conservative talk show hosts, it is literally impossible to be informed by only listening to them. I can see how people get sucked into their narrative since I used to be, and although you get a TON of information, it is completely one sided.

How can anyone honestly say they're informed when they only listen to one side? (And before I get jumped on, of course that happens to the left as well)
 
ltbewr
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:56 pm

I am a dedicated Democrat but to me President Obama has some serious political tone deafness issues, with this 'mandatory voting' idea another example. By such ideas, he just riles up the conservatives to be even more against him, at a time when we need greater political cooperation to deal with a number of issues.
Rather than a federal mandate for voting, better would be to have one federal standard as to the right to vote as is a key part of our Constitution rather than variables from state to state. We need a Voting Rights Act of the 21st Century. Elements should include:
No primaries or caucuses for Presidential and Congress/Senate party nominees before April 1 of the year of the general election.
Each state must establish non-partisan commissions to set Congressional and State legislative districts, with encouragement of the states districts assure some proportional representation of Black, Hispanic/Latino, and Native Americans in each state where possible as well as no 'gerrymanderd' districts. Districts cannot include Federal or State prisoners, they will be considered to be residents of their last legal address.
A National standard of election equipment and ballots where the Federal government would own the software, verifiable paper receipts of votes.
No bans on former felony convicts who have served their jail time.
Some limits by organizations not controlled by the party or candidate they are supposing.
Standard for voter ID
Expand vote by mail.
No release of voting results involving Federal office candidates until 1 hour after the last poll in the states except for Alaska and Hawaii are closed. All poll locations should be open from 7 AM to 9 PM local time.
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):


So, according to you, this last election was because of all the voting in cities and very little anywhere else? Which is why the tea faction kooks are in control.

Just to be clear: we have the Congress selected by low information voters. This is what Fox and MSM loves and has been trying for.

If it removes the span of control from nut bags like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and puts a check on Obama, then by all means, bring it on. I get it, your socialist agenda hit a road block.

Seb, I don't think you get it man. You yap on about the irrelevant "Tea Party Faction" ignoring the fact that you're a member of the equivalent faction onn the left, whatever that may be. The rest of us hover somewhere in the middle with minor leanings to the left or right, but anyone that disagrees even in a minor way with you is a Tea Party Faction member. Just shows how out there you really are.

[Edited 2015-03-22 10:18:03]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:25 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 46):
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 46):

No primaries or caucuses for Presidential and Congress/Senate party nominees before April 1 of the year of the general election.

No release of voting results involving Federal office candidates until 1 hour after the last poll in the states except for Alaska and Hawaii are closed. All poll locations should be open from 7 AM to 9 PM local time.

I'm good with this, maybe even move April 1 to about October. Not looking forward to nothing but election coverage in the next year. It gets a bit old. I'd even go so far as to have a primary caucus season to weed out candidates, but have a nationwide primary on the same day and a prohibition on voting across party lines in a primary. Democrats have no business determining who is on a Republican ballot and vise-versa. On the results I'd carry it a step further. Count all the votes, then release the results two or three days later one they've been counted.

[Edited 2015-03-22 10:27:03]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13720
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:27 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 40):
The US has been averaging about 50,000 a year flow the other way, mostly to Mexico for the last 7 years....But you would have to do some research to find that out.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ut-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

so... The steady increase of illegal immigrants in the United States did actually come to a grinding stop since a Obama is in office? As opposed to exploding under the Bush administration? And the right wing has been playing opposite day ever since?

Quoting pu (Reply 26):
I was a banker before I retired. Our losses to in-person fraud were 10x as high as online fraud. For every euro we lost in an online scam, we lost 10 euros by people just walking into local banks with fake ids, forged signatures, altered documents and the ability to talk their way around the employees.

ever heard of "Carbanak", they just stole one BILLION US $ .... you need a lot of people to walk into banks to round up that amount of money with forged signatures. They did it from their living room.


Quoting pu (Reply 26):
In the US the increased participation and increased security of on-line voting versus in-person or mailed-in-ballots is at least an order of magnitude.

The difference is that you can only do limited damage with fake mail in votes, since they are practically on top of the regular ones. If you do break the online voting system, you can change ALL votes. If you are lucky, some white hat hacker changes it to the flying spaghetti monster party. .. If you are unlucky it will be democrats. .. or Republicans. . depends on your point of view.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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