How do missing death certificates relate to missing birth certificates?
|Quoting Pyrex (Reply 100):|
So I can just grab a random old person off the street, drag them into a Social Security office and have them send the checks my way?
No, but for most of the existence of the program you have not been required to produce a birth certificate to get an SSN
|Quoting Pyrex (Reply 100):|
That one is a very, very simple problem to fix - just end not-in-person voting.
I actually support that in principle, or at least drastically curtailing it. I don't like voters voting with someone looking over their shoulders. So we have a relatively much larger problem, and a very straight-forward solution. Where's the advocacy for that? Or how about making things like early (in person) voting easier (rather than harder), where those abuses are greatly reduced. Could it be that significant restrictions on by-mail voting would likely impact a large number of likely Republican voters? Despite addressing a much bigger problem? Nah, that couldn't be it...
|Quoting sccutler (Reply 94):|
In which states is a prospective voter required to pay to get a lawful identification card? Certainly not in Texas, where the requisite ID is free to obtain, with ID offices in every county, and extended hours in the periods leading up to elections. The idea is, make it easy for legitimate voters to vote, and much less likely for illegitimate voters to cast fraudulent ballots.
Oh you're absolutely right. Not a single state charges for an ID
needed for voting. You just need to spend a lot of time and/or money gathering the required documentation. You can't generally get a copy of your birth certificate for free, for example. Texas actually lets you get a birth certificate for the purposes of getting a voter ID
for free, but you're still stuck in the catch-22 of having to prove who you are before they'll give it to you. In most places there's also some sort of procedure for getting something that serves the purpose of a birth certificate if you weren't ever issued one, but again the documentation process is often arduous.
Many of these are people who have gone for decades without IDs, and have always voted. These people are disproportionately poor, old, women and minorities. They're the ones who suddenly need to do this work to acquire an ID
. Something like 10 million *households* in the US have no bank account. Yeah, sure, ask the guy working a minimum wage job to take a day off to visit the county courthouse for his "free" ID
. There are a lot of people with limited need for ID
Again, where are these illegitimate voters? The actual number is tiny. Really tiny. It's been investigated time and time again. Reagan promised to investigate, and he did. More than once. Nothing found. During the (younger) Bush administration, the Justice department had a five year long program to crack down on voter fraud. They managed to convict a grand total of 86 people for any sort of crime related to elections (IOW, many of those 86 did things that would not have been stopped by stricter ID
And a bunch of these voter ID
laws have been taken to court. You'd think that if there was actual evidence of a problem that it would get presented there. But again, and aging, the defenders of such laws can't actually present any such evidence. When PA tried to implement fairly draconian voter ID
laws, the state was unable produce an evidence of significant voter fraud in the state in court. While admitting that the law would impact some three-quarters of a million people in the state who lacked a proper ID
And of the cases that are found, it's only in a minority of those cases that an ID
would actually have stopped the problem. Of the actual cases, significant numbers have been things like having people registered who should not have been allowed to vote, or registered* incorrectly, in which case ID
does nothing. And many of cases of fraud happen in ways that have nothing to do with a voter showing up somewhere where someone can look at their ID
. It's been pointed out repeatedly that you don't steal elections one vote at a time. You do it by stuffing ballot boxes, or other en-mass methods, and IDs don't do a thing to fix that.
So again: Voter ID
“fixes” a tiny problem, but has a non-trivial impact on a lot of mostly poor/old/female/minority voters.
*One of my personal favorites is a case from Frederick, Maryland. It seems several voters were registered who checked "No" on the registration form where it asked if they were US citizens. While you can reasonably argue that those individuals committed fraud when they did vote (despite having registered), and the case has been dragged out repeated as "proof" that voter fraud does exist (no one has ever denied that it happens on occasion), but how does a ID
help? This has happened again and again.