Pyrex
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:19 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 93):
She didn't need a birth certificate to collect social security. You don't need to be a citizen either.

So I can just grab a random old person off the street, drag them into a Social Security office and have them send the checks my way?

Quoting rwessel (Reply 93):
It's a bigger problem, not fix that one first?

That one is a very, very simple problem to fix - just end not-in-person voting.
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pu
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:55 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 97):
In a nutshell, the electoral college protects the rights of the minority from an omnipotent majority found in a Democracy. In this case "minority" refers to smaller states.

PART II

I was shuttering to think of the kind of sources you would use since you obviously are uhm....decided and partisan. But I decided to give you a chance and read your links... There's nothing in the definition of a Republic -even in the sites you provided- that says US states should vote by state and not by a simple national majority for the president, there's nothing to imply small states have to be protected against the large states.

"All eligible citizens get equal say in decisions"
....from the Diffen site you provided under "Republic" column


A Republic, as defined by your chosen sources, DOES imply certain essential rights will be protected for the minority in the face of a ruling majority. It also implies the use of representatives versus directly deciding every issue.

............... But it does not mean Wyoming gets equal say to California. It means California does not get to enslave Wyoming or ban their freedom of speech and so forth.
Being a Republic in no way implies the minority get to decide the presidency, as can happen in the electoral college, and it in no way implies Californians should have equal say in the Senate as Wyoming. Your sites says quite the opposite, it says everyone has equal say in a Republic.



Pu.
 
rwessel
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:44 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 96):
Which explains this colossal mess, abuse and waste of taxpayer dollars:

http://m.ibtimes.com/social-security...48020

How do missing death certificates relate to missing birth certificates?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 100):
So I can just grab a random old person off the street, drag them into a Social Security office and have them send the checks my way?

No, but for most of the existence of the program you have not been required to produce a birth certificate to get an SSN.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 100):
That one is a very, very simple problem to fix - just end not-in-person voting.

I actually support that in principle, or at least drastically curtailing it. I don't like voters voting with someone looking over their shoulders. So we have a relatively much larger problem, and a very straight-forward solution. Where's the advocacy for that? Or how about making things like early (in person) voting easier (rather than harder), where those abuses are greatly reduced. Could it be that significant restrictions on by-mail voting would likely impact a large number of likely Republican voters? Despite addressing a much bigger problem? Nah, that couldn't be it...

Quoting sccutler (Reply 94):
In which states is a prospective voter required to pay to get a lawful identification card? Certainly not in Texas, where the requisite ID is free to obtain, with ID offices in every county, and extended hours in the periods leading up to elections. The idea is, make it easy for legitimate voters to vote, and much less likely for illegitimate voters to cast fraudulent ballots.

Oh you're absolutely right. Not a single state charges for an ID needed for voting. You just need to spend a lot of time and/or money gathering the required documentation. You can't generally get a copy of your birth certificate for free, for example. Texas actually lets you get a birth certificate for the purposes of getting a voter ID for free, but you're still stuck in the catch-22 of having to prove who you are before they'll give it to you. In most places there's also some sort of procedure for getting something that serves the purpose of a birth certificate if you weren't ever issued one, but again the documentation process is often arduous.

Many of these are people who have gone for decades without IDs, and have always voted. These people are disproportionately poor, old, women and minorities. They're the ones who suddenly need to do this work to acquire an ID. Something like 10 million *households* in the US have no bank account. Yeah, sure, ask the guy working a minimum wage job to take a day off to visit the county courthouse for his "free" ID. There are a lot of people with limited need for ID.

Again, where are these illegitimate voters? The actual number is tiny. Really tiny. It's been investigated time and time again. Reagan promised to investigate, and he did. More than once. Nothing found. During the (younger) Bush administration, the Justice department had a five year long program to crack down on voter fraud. They managed to convict a grand total of 86 people for any sort of crime related to elections (IOW, many of those 86 did things that would not have been stopped by stricter ID requirements).

And a bunch of these voter ID laws have been taken to court. You'd think that if there was actual evidence of a problem that it would get presented there. But again, and aging, the defenders of such laws can't actually present any such evidence. When PA tried to implement fairly draconian voter ID laws, the state was unable produce an evidence of significant voter fraud in the state in court. While admitting that the law would impact some three-quarters of a million people in the state who lacked a proper ID.

And of the cases that are found, it's only in a minority of those cases that an ID would actually have stopped the problem. Of the actual cases, significant numbers have been things like having people registered who should not have been allowed to vote, or registered* incorrectly, in which case ID does nothing. And many of cases of fraud happen in ways that have nothing to do with a voter showing up somewhere where someone can look at their ID. It's been pointed out repeatedly that you don't steal elections one vote at a time. You do it by stuffing ballot boxes, or other en-mass methods, and IDs don't do a thing to fix that.

So again: Voter ID “fixes” a tiny problem, but has a non-trivial impact on a lot of mostly poor/old/female/minority voters.


*One of my personal favorites is a case from Frederick, Maryland. It seems several voters were registered who checked "No" on the registration form where it asked if they were US citizens. While you can reasonably argue that those individuals committed fraud when they did vote (despite having registered), and the case has been dragged out repeated as "proof" that voter fraud does exist (no one has ever denied that it happens on occasion), but how does a ID help? This has happened again and again.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting pu (Reply 98):

Right now 40 million Californians have exactly equal say in the Senate as 600k Wyoming-folk.

Pu

Actually, California has 18 times the voice, but ensuring Wyoming has a voice is pretty much the point of our system. You are advocating for Wyoming to have no voice at all. Fortunately, the Constitution protects this.

[Edited 2015-03-24 04:26:27]
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Boeing717200
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 102):

You have a broken system. It explains why it's broken. The reason is a of accountability. Don't worry, nothing to see here, even though it permeates throughout the government and costs us Billions every year.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 103):
but ensuring Wyoming has a voice is pretty much the point of our system.

That's what the Senate is for, a place where states are on equal footing with each other. For POTUS, this system may have worked before but should not be allowed anymore. A citizen in Wyoming is just as much a citizen as one in California.

The whole notion of "protecting small states from big states" is rather ridiculous. Protect them from what? Presidential candidates ignoring them? How many times did Obama or Romney visit South Dakota or Wyoming or Vermont or Alaska? How many times did they visit Texas or California or New York? The real threat to the small states are the swing states. Their needs get addressed; the small ones' or big ones' are not.

At the very least (and we're going way off topic here) if the Electoral College is to be preserved, I find the happy medium is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, still assigning electors to states but guaranteeing that the winner of the popular vote is always the winner in the electoral college. You maximize voter turnout in all areas of the country (rural and urban) and because states with more than half of the EC majority will be watching your every move, candidates have to visit as many states as possible to maximize voter turnout.

I applaud Oklahoma for being perhaps the first Republican-led state to begin the process (they passed the bill in the House but never made it to the Senate; now it's back into session again).
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sccutler
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 99):
Probably will have to agree to disagree. I can appreciate the need for the Senate for keeping the needs of small states relevant, but for the Presidency, 1 person, 1 vote. Why should the cities have more power than rural areas? It's obvious, because there are more people in the cities. Some random guy in SFO should have as much vote as the guy in rural ND

Good discussion here- and we do disagree, but not in an uncivil way.

I do not see much chance for 2/3 of the states agreeing to change the way the elections are held, though.

---

For many who are less-familiar with how our government is structured (and these are by no means limited to those from outside our borders), the intent is that the states are the dominant element - the federal government is intended to serve the needs of the states, not the other way around. Sadly (for each and all of us, save and except the ever-growing and demanding bureaucracy and regal class in DC), this system is being eviscerated, one bureaucratic, rule-making bite at a time.
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zckls04
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 78):
You are correct here; anyone who dismisses a swath of the population this large, does so at their extreme peril. The fact that one disagrees with (or, indeed, disputes the existence of) the "lifestyle" of others (in quotes, because the science on "lifestyle choice" vs. genetic predisposition is fairly settled) is not just cause to marginalize those anyone.

Precisely, which is why no serious candidate will do so, hence why it won't make a significant difference to the outcome IMO.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 85):
Internet voting combines the worst features of in-person electronic voting with the problems of by-mail voting, plus adds all the internet security and trust issues.

I agree to an extent, but the fact is that other countries do successfully use internet voting. Are we saying that none of those countries have credible elections? It seems to me something we should be striving to achieve, rather than just saying it can't b e done.
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Raventech
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 105):
The whole notion of "protecting small states from big states" is rather ridiculous.

The senate is set up the way it is because it is designed to do the bidding of the states themselves and not necessarily the people. They are still elected by the people so the people of the state can choose how they want their state represented. An example is when treaties are signed they are approved by the senate and not the house because then each state government is represented equally in the treaty approval, the people are represented though the president in this case. On the other hand spending/tax changes must start in the house of representatives (also known as "The People's House") because then each person is represented equally regardless of state.
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 103):
Actually, California has 18 times the voice,

In the House.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 103):
ensuring Wyoming has a voice is pretty much the point of our system

In the Senate.

Why should a state of 600K have the exact same voice in national elections as a state with 2 million?

For that matter, why should one person who holds $200 million have more voice than a person who holds $10? One person, one vote. This is a democratic republic. We do not live by the other Golden Rule. At least we shouldn't.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 102):
but for most of the existence of the program you have not been required to produce a birth certificate to get an SSN.

Ah, but yes, you do need to prove legal residency in this country and prove that you are who you are.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 102):
Not a single state charges for an ID needed for voting.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/domes...inority-and-youth-turnout-20141008

Except they do. The states that say they are not charging for a simple ID do end up costing those who need an ID. A birth certificate is not free. A passport is not free. Getting the information together to prove you are who you are and live where you live is not free. While the actual card may not cost anything in a few states, proving you do exist does cost.
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pu
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 106):
- the federal government is intended to serve the needs of the states

The intention of the framers is only one consideration. The fact that you present it as a deciding factor is simply presenting political ideology as fact.




Pu.
 
sccutler
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 110):
The intention of the framers is only one consideration. The fact that you present it as a deciding factor is simply presenting political ideology as fact.

It is "fact," in that it is codified in the Constitution. It is also, presumably, "ideology," but it is ideology which has been made law. One presumes, of course, that every code, law and charter starts as ideology in some form.

But this reminds me of when someone, in response to an expression by another, says or writes, "That's just your opinion! Well hello, Captain Obvious, I said or wrote it, unless I attribute it to someone else, of course it's my opinion.
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pu
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 111):
It is "fact

Where exactly is it 'codified in the constitution' that the intentions of the framers is a deciding factor about constitutional debate?

It's very much a fact to you. It is an important, even deciding factor for discussions about elections - to you.

It is also a politcal ideology advocated by those worried about losing some advantage they have, aka the Right.

For others, the intentions of the framers are but one consideration. To still others this "fact" is completely irrelevant, they say the dead hands of the past don't rule today. You prefer a historical modality of constitutional understanding because the anticipated benefits of that type of thinking seems most protective of your personal interests, of some advantage you have.

Others prefer a constitutional understanding based on their higher duty to an ethical determination of what is right and wrong. So saying the fed is subservient to the states is not definitive, it is just one of several ways to posit the function of govt placing high value on the perceived will of the framers, which not everyone does.

Basically you and everyone else determines the result they want and fashions their constitutional arguments in a modality that leads to their personally desirable result. But in a democracy no approach is inherently right or wrong, including your cherished "facts" around the intent of the framers, which to many others are simply not relevant to the discussion.



Pu
paraphrasing the classification of all constitutional arguments as one of six modalities by Philip Bobbit in especially Constitutional Fate, with a bit of Sandy Levinson's Constitutional Faith as well.

[Edited 2015-03-24 15:15:16]
 
rwessel
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 107):
I agree to an extent, but the fact is that other countries do successfully use internet voting. Are we saying that none of those countries have credible elections? It seems to me something we should be striving to achieve, rather than just saying it can't b e done.

Problems with verifiability and trust with all forms of electronic voting are widespread. This is a problem. While there are technical issues that are solvable, the basic trust issue *cannot* be solved, since it's not a technical issue, it's a social/political one.

You should also consider the opinions of folks in the security end of the computing world, where the essentially universal opinion is that this is a horrible idea.

And at the end of the day, internet (and by mail) voting does away with the "secret" part of a "secret ballots". Do you really want to go there?
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:11 am

Ohio Republicans are getting in on voter suppression, it looks like:

http://thinkprogress.org/election/20.../03/24/3638342/ohio-budget-voting/
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index....oter_suppression_likely_resul.html

Pay $100 to vote.

And no one has answered my original question that I have asked twice.
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PHX787
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 68):
I don't think it will be a huge issue either way though. Those who are on the right side of history will have no issue. Those that are living in the past at least generally know that they need to keep their mouth shut to have a chance of winning.

THat's still the problem. Chance of winning. I have a feeling that these candidates will indeed get washed up in the religious fury over this.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 68):
I don't think an otherwise sensible candidate is likely to throw away the election by being anti-gay.

You never know. Mike Huckabee, should he run again, would definitely do so.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 68):
Paul has far worse issues to worry about in just convincing the USA that libertarianism is a credible philosophy. The religious right are the least of his problems.

Well he has the backing of most of America's youth. That's the good thing going for him.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 69):
While I welcome more libertarianism, libertarians are just too libertarian and I doubt it will ever catch on,

Im making a video on my youtube channel about how libertarians are just going extreme on their ideology. "The government shouldn't build roads" they say sometimes. Do they understand economics, the very school of thought Libertarians claim to champion? The willingness to pay for a road will result in no roads being built. That's where the government is SUPPOSED to come in. Libertarians need to start using more economic pragmatism to promote their cause.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 70):
Dr. Paul has made it clear that he is happy to sacrifice LGBT lives in return for favor within the GOP. He is anti-gay marriage, anti-discrimination laws, and anti-abortion.

Jesus christ dude calm down.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 70):
Dr. Paul is happy to do whatever it takes to make the LGBT community a whipping boy as long as it helps him politically.

You're so anti-Republican it clouds your vision. Rand Paul says many times he wouldn't ever touch any sort of legislation related to LGBT rights. I think he said once before something along the lines of I might not be for gay marriage but who is the government's right to decide who gets married?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 72):
Isn't this already a moot point? The full faith and credit clause of the Constitution should mean that a legal marriage performed in any state is valid in any other.

Thats something the Supreme Court really needs to nail in.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 86):
Yes, actually. The original Tea Party, before it was bought by corporations to be the mash up it is today, actually had good and broad based ideas that all Americans could get behind.

I...uh...what? I'm gonna stop you there and factually correct you by saying the Tea Party was taken over by religious right.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 114):
Ohio Republicans are getting in on voter suppression, it looks like:

Im a Ohio republican. I didn't have to pay jack shit. Neither did my black republican friend. Your sources are absolute horse shit, seb. Just stop trying.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 115):
Im making a video on my youtube channel about how libertarians are just going extreme on their ideology. "The government shouldn't build roads" they say sometimes. Do they understand economics, the very school of thought Libertarians claim to champion? The willingness to pay for a road will result in no roads being built. That's where the government is SUPPOSED to come in. Libertarians need to start using more economic pragmatism to promote their cause.

How liberal should the libertarian party be? And for that matter, how right should the Republicans be, and how left should the Democrats be? That's a problem with the 2 party system... it lumps so many people together. Everyone on the right in the same party, everyone on the left in the same party, and all the libertarians either get lumped into a party that doesn't win more than a few percentage points or divided between the left and right.

Like I said, I'm glad for the libertarian influence. The libertarian party, for the time being, have no shot at winning, but at least both the major parties are slightly moving that way (on some issues)
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 115):
Im a Ohio republican. I didn't have to pay jack shit. Neither did my black republican friend.

Really? S/He should try moving and see how that works out.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 115):
the Tea Party was taken over by religious right.

And corporations.

But, corporate money aside, they had really good ideas. Before money came along.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 116):
I'm glad for the libertarian influence. The libertarian party, for the time being, have no shot at winning, but at least both the major parties are slightly moving that way (on some issues)

Again, it is all about the money. There are parts of the libertarian party that I agree with. Parts of the Democratic party I agree with. Heck, even the Republican party has planks I agree with. However, because money is the root of all evil (and root of law making and how things get done in this country) I have to hold my nose and vote Democratic. It sucks, but that is why I am a registered Democrat. If money had nothing to do with it and we could actually have representation based on what we believed instead of who bought the most seats, I would not be Democrat. I would find a center-left party that fit my beliefs. But, this is a Christian nation where money rules all just like Jesus said.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 114):
Ohio Republicans are getting in on voter suppression, it looks like:

It has nothing to do with voter suppression - it has to do with the concept that you only live in ONE place at a time. For people like college students who's residency is debatable, PICK ONE. What's so difficult about that concept?

Meanwhile in Wisconsin:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...-id-law-b99467301z1-297237031.html

The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday rejected a challenge to Wisconsin's voter identification law

80% of the population agrees with voter IDs. It's common sense. In my opinion it's not enough - since a drivers' license does not provide proof of citizenship, but at least it's a start in the right direction.

And as for internet voting which some people here seem to like, internet fraud is rampant. How can we control who is voting? PBS reported recently that there are 6.5 million Social Security numbers active for people over 112 years old - many of which are still being used to report billions in taxes, voting records, credit applications etc. This is what happens when you do not require photo ID and the human eye for important transactions. I find it outrageous that in the US you can get a credit card or a loan without going to a bank, showing your face and showing your credentials which go with your face. Voting, even more so.
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 118):
It has nothing to do with voter suppression - it has to do with the concept that you only live in ONE place at a time.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 118):
For people like college students who's residency is debatable, PICK ONE. What's so difficult about that concept?

First of all, pipe down. I do not care for the condescending attitude you always have when anyone challenges your opinions. Your opinions are opinions, not facts. Get over it.

Second, Ohio is telling students "sure, you can vote here but not in your home state. You just have to pay at least $100 for the privilege. Heck, even if you decide not to take up permanent residency in Ohio, you still are forced to pay $100 and be a permanent resident of Ohio."

In other words, center and left wing college students will be forced to pay to vote in Ohio. A so-called "swing state."

Actually, that is not a bad idea. Even though they are being charged for voting, I hope they do it. And turn Ohio back into a democracy.
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zckls04
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:27 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 115):
You never know. Mike Huckabee, should he run again, would definitely do so.

Not sure I'd describe him as otherwise credible.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 113):
And at the end of the day, internet (and by mail) voting does away with the "secret" part of a "secret ballots". Do you really want to go there?

Given the prevalence of by-mail voting, I'd say we're already there.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 115):
Well he has the backing of most of America's youth. That's the good thing going for him.

Most of America's youth would vote for a Democrat. Republicans are mostly old.

Maybe most of America's conservative youth would vote for him- although I'd be interested to see a poll if that's the case.
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 118):
I find it outrageous that in the US you can get a credit card or a loan without going to a bank, showing your face and showing your credentials which go with your face. Voting, even more so.

We actually do have to show identification when voting. No one but no one has an issue with that. It is the FACT that we have to pay for any kind of identification that upsets people. People pay to get a drivers license. That is not a big deal. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you actually bothered to read any of my post, you would have seen how it costs people to have a simple state issued ID.

Also, I want to know how many votes you can cast in a single election? This is what you right wingers say is happening. You right wingers insist that people are stuffing the ballot boxes; people going in and casting multiple ballots. How many times has that happened?
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 119):
Second, Ohio is telling students "sure, you can vote here but not in your home state. You just have to pay at least $100 for the privilege. Heck, even if you decide not to take up permanent residency in Ohio, you still are forced to pay $100 and be a permanent resident of Ohio."

First of all it is illegal to be able to vote in two states. If you want to vote in Ohio you shouldn't be voting in NC, NY or wherever you just moved from. Second of all the law Ohio passed refers to vehicular registration. So if someone doesn't have a registered vehicle then you don't pay $100. Lastly, if one is actually becoming an Ohio resident they should be getting an Ohio ID and registering their vehicle in Ohio anyways... So do you think it should be free to register a car in Ohio?

[Edited 2015-03-25 10:58:42]
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 121):
We actually do have to show identification when voting. No one but no one has an issue with that. It is the FACT that we have to pay for any kind of identification that upsets people.

Not true. The Wisconsin case (and many other states) provided for free IDs, but still the left complains - all the way to the Supreme Court. FACT: The left gets their panties in a wad whenever any attempt is made to ensure the "One citizen, One Vote" rule. The only reason that makes any sense is that they know that there is fraud going on, and that they are the beneficiaries of it. What other reason could there be? Answer me that.
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 123):
Not true. The Wisconsin case (and many other states) provided for free IDs, but still the left complains - all the way to the Supreme Court. FACT: The left gets their panties in a wad whenever any attempt is made to ensure the "One citizen, One Vote" rule. The only reason that makes any sense is that they know that there is fraud going on, and that they are the beneficiaries of it. What other reason could there be? Answer me that.

The same reason you argue against certain gun control measures. The two issues have a lot of parallels. In both cases regulation is being introduced to combat a problem which is exceedingly rare.

Putting needless regulation in the way of a fundamental right would seem to me to be a position conservatives would find abhorrent, but since it gives them a strategic advantage in the elections their principles appear to have been sidelined.

I'll ask you a question now. Why have the GOP focused their ire on voter impersonation fraud, which we know is extremely rare, and not vote-by-mail fraud, which we know is not?
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seb146
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:24 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 123):
The Wisconsin case (and many other states) provided for free IDs, but still the left complains

So it costs nothing to get paper work to prove you are who you are? It costs nothing to take a day (or more) off work to stand in line and prove you are who you are?

You completely miss the point. You right wingers always miss the point when it comes to equality for all legal citizens.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 123):
The left gets their panties in a wad whenever any attempt is made to ensure the "One citizen, One Vote" for the right price rule

fixed that for ya.
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PHX787
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RE: Obama Wants Voting To Become Mandatory

Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:55 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 118):
It has nothing to do with voter suppression - it has to do with the concept that you only live in ONE place at a time. For people like college students who's residency is debatable, PICK ONE. What's so difficult about that concept?

Think about it this way- I may live in Tokyo but I can't vote in Tokyo elections. I vote in Ohio elections via absenteeism.
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