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SOBHI51
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Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:10 pm

From CNN

The newly announced Republican presidential candidate told CNN's Dana Bash that he will sign up for health care coverage through the Affordable Care Act -- a law he has been on a crusade to kill.

The news comes one day after CNN first reported that the senator would no longer have access to health benefits through his wife's employer, Goldman Sachs.


I am no expert in American policies, but i am completely baffled here.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:14 pm

Not too surprising... He will probably use it as a political running tool in his short campaign for irrelevance.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:19 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):

To be fair, he is using a Special Congressionally created loophole to the ACA that allows congress some special favors.

http://www.bizjournals.com/washingto...es-aim-at-congress-use-of-d-c.html

"Vitter's statements echo concerns raised in a lawsuit filed last year by District resident Kirby Vining — with backing from the conservative group Judicial Watch— accusing D.C. Health Link of accepting documents from the House and Senate falsely saying they employ less than 50 people. Companies must employ 50 or fewer people in order to qualify for this exchange."
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DocLightning
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:55 am

If you want health insurance in this country and you don't have an employer to do it for you, then you must purchase insurance under the ACA. So Mr. Cruz's argument is that he is doing it this way because there is no other choice.

Here's the problem: under the old system, there wasn't another choice unless you were 100% perfectly healthy.

But here is the problem: what Mr. Cruz is saying is: "I want health insurance." Great. The hypocrisy is that he wants a system in which other people do not have access to health insurance.
-Doc Lightning-

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WarRI1
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
The hypocrisy is that he wants a system in which other people do not have access to health insurance.

Is not the hypocrisy amazing? How do they have the nerve? I have the feeling that they believe the American people are not too bright. Unfortunately I have my doubts sometimes about that.    
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usflyer msp
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:05 am

I hate Ted Cruz. Every time I see him I want to punch him in his smug obnoxious face. I don't see how TPers and Texas Republicans don't see through his nonsense and pandering...
 
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seb146
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:11 am

The well known Canadian performance artist is already on Obama care. It's called "Senator."


Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 5):
I don't see how TPers and Texas Republicans don't see through his nonsense and pandering...

Fox.

end of line
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GuitrThree
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:18 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 5):
I hate Ted Cruz. Every time I see him I want to punch him in his smug obnoxious face. I don't see how TPers and Texas Republicans don't see through his nonsense and pandering...

Wow. Violence against a fellow citizen because you don't agree with his politics. Ok, I guess.. But please, enlighten me by providing any evidence to his speech at Liberty that wasn't true. I mean you call it nonsense and pandering... please provide facts proving it's not just that....
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seb146
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:28 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 7):
Violence against a fellow citizen because you don't agree with his politics. Ok, I guess..

No, it is not okay. It is acceptable with a right-winger does it? I still don't get that. The party of Christianity and Jesus and the Bible and all that. They are always saying how they want to kill and hurt Obama and Pelosi and Ried and any Democrat. Cliven Bundy and his supporters shooting at federal agents. It is never right, no matter which side it comes from.

I think Cruz has said some stupid things, but the guy is a genius. He is going to make millions screaming about how Hillary is destroying the government and how Hillary hates America and how Hillary this and that and the other. Just like Palin has made millions. He knows what he is doing. As much as I hate where the money comes from and how much I disagree with what he says, he knows what he is doing.

Bravo, sir. Bravo. If I had no soul, I would make millions too.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 5):
I don't see how TPers and Texas Republicans don't see through his nonsense and pandering.

Easy: because they don't WANT to.
He's telling them what they want to hear, and they wish to believe it.

They want to believe that Muslims are creating no-go zones in Europe.
They want to believe that gays are an oppressive power over defenseless Christians.
They want to believe that legal abortion causes hurricanes.
They want to believe that corporate welfare is necessary, yet social welfare is a societal drain.
They want to believe that the 1950s was the paragon of civilization.
They want to believe that environmental abuse is a non-issue.
They want to believe that perpetual war is good, yet pervasive healthcare is bad.
They want to believe that the USA is the most adept country at everything it endeavors to do.

And they want to believe that a conniving Canadian Hispanic, is instead a pissed-off White man from Texas, whose interests somehow align with their own myopic vision of reality.....

....so he's just giving them what they want.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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seb146
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:38 am

Cruz is already on Obama care. It's called being a Senator.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:28 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 9):
They want to believe that Muslims are creating no-go zones in Europe.

I don't know about all the rest but there are no go zones (or at least zones where you wouldn't want to go) in cities in Europe. Parts of Oslo, Stockholm, Malmo are like this.
 
Max Q
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
But here is the problem: what Mr. Cruz is saying is: "I want health insurance." Great. The hypocrisy is that he wants a system in which other people do not have access to health insurance.

He is the epitome of what is wrong with the right wing in this country which is becoming more and more extreme every day.The Republicans might as well just call themselves the Tea Party at this point.


Their agenda and way of thinking is the biggest danger to the future of this country that I have ever seen in my life.The naked racist hatred of Obama and downright treasonous actions taken to undermine his presidency are a disgrace and an affront to democracy.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 9):
Easy: because they don't WANT to.
He's telling them what they want to hear, and they wish to believe it.

They want to believe that Muslims are creating no-go zones in Europe.
They want to believe that gays are an oppressive power over defenseless Christians.
They want to believe that legal abortion causes hurricanes.
They want to believe that corporate welfare is necessary, yet social welfare is a societal drain.
They want to believe that the 1950s was the paragon of civilization.
They want to believe that environmental abuse is a non-issue.
They want to believe that perpetual war is good, yet pervasive healthcare is bad.
They want to believe that the USA is the most adept country at everything it endeavors to do.

And they want to believe that a conniving Canadian Hispanic, is instead a pissed-off White man from Texas, whose interests somehow align with their own myopic vision of reality.....

....so he's just giving them what they want.

Very well said.




God help us if this deranged maniac is elected, or anyone else on the right at this point.
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GGg
 
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moo
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:49 am

Meanwhile, over in the UK, I don't have to worry about having healthcare cover at all  
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:02 am

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
Meanwhile, over in the UK, I don't have to worry about having healthcare cover at all

And you can always buy private medical insurance if you want it too. Just like in NZ.
 
bgm
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 7):
I mean you call it nonsense and pandering... please provide facts proving it's not just that....

Here ya go!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/op...agine-president-ted-cruz.html?_r=0
 
bgm
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
He is the epitome of what is wrong with the right wing in this country which is becoming more and more extreme every day.The Republicans might as well just call themselves the Tea Party at this point.

  

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 9):
Easy: because they don't WANT to.
He's telling them what they want to hear, and they wish to believe it.

They want to believe that Muslims are creating no-go zones in Europe.
They want to believe that gays are an oppressive power over defenseless Christians.
They want to believe that legal abortion causes hurricanes.
They want to believe that corporate welfare is necessary, yet social welfare is a societal drain.
They want to believe that the 1950s was the paragon of civilization.
They want to believe that environmental abuse is a non-issue.
They want to believe that perpetual war is good, yet pervasive healthcare is bad.
They want to believe that the USA is the most adept country at everything it endeavors to do.

And they want to believe that a conniving Canadian Hispanic, is instead a pissed-off White man from Texas, whose interests somehow align with their own myopic vision of reality.....

....so he's just giving them what they want.

  

Nailed it.
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
I don't know about all the rest but there are no go zones (or at least zones where you wouldn't want to go) in cities in Europe. Parts of Oslo, Stockholm, Malmo are like this.

Going by that definition there are places like that here in the US as well but he's referring to remarks made by Bobby Jindal who is the current Governor of Louisiana where he said that certain areas in Europe (referring mostly to Paris) would cede authority to Muslim immigrants and wouldn't be touched by law enforcement due to how dangerous it would be. They came to light after the Charlie Hebdo shooting earlier this year.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/politics/jindal-no-go-zones-london/
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sccutler
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
No, it is not okay. It is acceptable with a right-winger does it? I still don't get that

You do understand, don't you, that, unless you actually receive a subsidy in the purchase of your health insurance (for which a very small minority of Americans qualify) that there is no "Obamacare" insurance, per se; rather, the statutorily-created exchanges have largely taken over the process of marketing and selling health insurance to those who do not have group health coverage through employers, or other groups.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Here's the problem: under the old system, there wasn't another choice unless you were 100% perfectly healthy.

Not really true at all; very few people, indeed, are "100% perfectly healthy," and yet nearly all were able to buy health insurance, for years, without the "benefit" of the ACA.

Where the differences come in is that, while before, the rates you pay for individual health insurance could be meaningfully higher, sometimes with higher deductibles, depending upon your health condition, now, the rates for everyone are much higher than once they were, and in addition (of course) the cost of group / employer-provided health insurance has skyrocketed, along with much higher deductibles.

The principal benefit conferred under the Affordable Care Act (which is how I prefer to refer to the healthcare law, because "Obamacare" has in many contexts taken on a pejorative connotation) is the improvement in availability of health insurance to people with major pre-existing conditions. By the same token, the cost of healthcare insurance, and the very high deductibles associated with pretty much every plan you can get today, means that there is a very large swath of the population who will effectively still be without routine healthcare because they cannot afford the deductibles. Unintended consequences and all that.

But I digress.

Anyone who contends that the senator purchasing insurance through the exchanges is somehow "wrong" is either (1) egregiously confused about what the law is, does, and its effects; or (2) simply looking for any excuse to rag on a person whom they find disagreeable (which is their right, but when you do it for a conjured reason, it loses effectiveness as a message).
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Mir
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:01 pm

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I suppose.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
f you want health insurance in this country and you don't have an employer to do it for you, then you must purchase insurance under the ACA. So Mr. Cruz's argument is that he is doing it this way because there is no other choice.

I was under the impression that one could still purchase private insurance without going on the exchanges (though it would be more difficult to compare plans and you might not get as good a deal).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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casinterest
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):

Not really true at all; very few people, indeed, are "100% perfectly healthy," and yet nearly all were able to buy health insurance, for years, without the "benefit" of the ACA.

Please explain why then that the amount of insured people was plunging prior to the ACA , and now there are more people than in the last 12 years signed up for it.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
now, the rates for everyone are much higher than once they were, and in addition (of course) the cost of group / employer-provided health insurance has skyrocketed, along with much higher deductibles.

Nope. They aren't Some folks especially those that could never have insurance under the old system pay much less for their insurance, which was one of the main purposes of the plan. I can actually go back and show that my coverage has gone up percentage wise much less under the ACA than it was in the previous 9 years.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
By the same token, the cost of healthcare insurance, and the very high deductibles associated with pretty much every plan you can get today, means that there is a very large swath of the population who will effectively still be without routine healthcare because they cannot afford the deductibles. Unintended consequences and all that.

It was an issue prior to the law, and it will continue to be an issue until Congress goes in and works to fix the causes of those issues instead of stubernly trying to repeal the whole damn law under the blind and stupid leadership of the Ted Cruz's of the world.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Anyone who contends that the senator purchasing insurance through the exchanges is somehow "wrong" is either (1) egregiously confused about what the law is, does, and its effects; or (2) simply looking for any excuse to rag on a person whom they find disagreeable (which is their right, but when you do it for a conjured reason, it loses effectiveness as a message).

You missed the point. The outrage is that he is a hypocrite for taking advantage of a government program that he done nothing but rail against and try to repeal...
 
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seb146
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
there is no "Obamacare" insurance, per se

Right. Because private health insurance companies are still allowed to exist. They just can't charge whatever they want any time they want. You are newly diagnosed with liver cancer? Too bad. Your rates just went up $9000 a month. You are newly pregnant? Congratulations! Your single person rates just went up $4000 a month. You have a hangnail? Sorry to hear that. Your rates just went up $500 a month.

Besides, because of COBRA rules and his wife's health care, he does not need subsidies, anyway. Also, being a Senator, he is not a private company. So, the ACA rules do not apply.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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mikelive
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
You missed the point. The outrage is that he is a hypocrite for taking advantage of a government program that he done nothing but rail against and try to repeal...


How is he a hypocrite when, as a member of the United States Senate, he is required by law, to get coverage through Obamacare?

So what should he do? Break the law? Go for the fine? What would the reaction be then? That he's so lawless that he believes that he's above the law and doesn't need to follow them?

Sure, he could try and obtain his own coverage through an insurance company directly, but those are becoming so prohibitively expensive (thanks to Obamacare), that it's not worth it.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Not really true at all; very few people, indeed, are "100% perfectly healthy," and yet nearly all were able to buy health insurance, for years, without the "benefit" of the ACA.

Yes, for horrid prices.

Quoting mikelive (Reply 23):
So what should he do? Break the law? Go for the fine? What would the reaction be then? That he's so lawless that he believes that he's above the law and doesn't need to follow them?

Yes, he should "opt out" as he and his ilk were so fond of telling young Americans to do. Mr. Cruz is quite wealthy and can easily afford the fines that come with opting out. Remember, opting out is not a criminal offense, it is simply a willful rejection of a tax exemption.

But instead, he participated in the exchange and in doing so, disproved a point he and his ilk have made. The Anti-ACA party has talked about the fact that people should be able to "choose" to go uninsured. But Mr. Cruz did not make that choice. Nobody would unless they were extremely stupid or so wealthy that dropping possibly tens of millions of dollars on a sudden health expense would be a non-issue. But apparently Mr. Cruz is neither of those because he's purchasing health insurance.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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mikelive
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Yes, he should "opt out" as he and his ilk were so fond of telling young Americans to do. Mr. Cruz is quite wealthy and can easily afford the fines that come with opting out. Remember, opting out is not a criminal offense, it is simply a willful rejection of a tax exemption.

I can only imagine what the media would do if he announced that he was going to go without health insurance.

If you thought the media was blowing a gasket now, that would be minuscule compared to the rods they would throw with that kind of announcement.

The fascinating thing to me is how much hate Cruz brings out of both sides of the aisle.

Can't we all get along?

/yeah, I know it won't ever happen, but it's nice to dream once in a while.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 10):
Cruz is already on Obama care. It's called being a Senator.

I suspect you've been caught by the myth that Congress has a special healthcare plan.

Since the Regan era - members of the House and Senate have been on the same medical insurance plans as all other federal civilian employees.

And like most people, if they have alternative health care - they are not required to sign up for the federal plan.

Ted Cruz's wife is an executive with Goldman-Sachs. Her health care plan through the company was excellent. So he never signed up for health care insurance through his employer - the Senate.

He has been quoted as being surprised when he got to Washington to find that members of Congress don't have special privileges and have to pay for their health insurance.

His wife is taking an un-paid leave of absence from her work. For several reasons, but the main one is to be able to devote all her time to running for President.

But, by the company rules, her extended benefits, including health care insurance, stop while she is on unpaid leave.

The funny part is that apparently neither Cruz or his campaign advisors were aware that he and the family would lose health insurance due his wife's change of status. One would hope that a president would have better advisors who researched such things before the press brought them up as questions.
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casinterest
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 26):
I suspect you've been caught by the myth that Congress has a special healthcare plan.

Nope, they do have a special healthcare plan, It is a Federal one, but they are signed up under a small business exemption that should not apply to Congress.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting mikelive (Reply 25):
I can only imagine what the media would do if he announced that he was going to go without health insurance.

It would again expose the hypocrisy that comes with the statement that people should be "free to go without health insurance." Well, they are free to go without health insurance, and yet just about everyone who can get it does get it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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LAX772LR
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
I don't know about all the rest but there are no go zones (or at least zones where you wouldn't want to go) in cities in Europe. Parts of Oslo, Stockholm, Malmo are like this.

And your evidence/proof of this is _____?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
luckyone
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 29):
And your evidence/proof of this is _____?

I think what the user means is that there are parts of every city on the planet that one would be wiser to not explore than explore. What the user also means it that this does not imply government-sanctioned no-go zones.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 30):
I think what the user means is that there are parts of every city on the planet that one would be wiser to not explore than explore. What the user also means it that this does not imply government-sanctioned no-go zones.

Then why not let "the user" speak for himself to clarify such, specifically why it applies to Muslims in Europe.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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seb146
Posts: 23466
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 31):
Quoting luckyone (Reply 30):
I think what the user means is that there are parts of every city on the planet that one would be wiser to not explore than explore. What the user also means it that this does not imply government-sanctioned no-go zones.

Then why not let "the user" speak for himself to clarify such, specifically why it applies to Muslims in Europe.

I think KiwiRob backed off the "Muslim" statement when he said:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
(or at least zones where you wouldn't want to go)

There are parts of San Francisco where I would not venture. Not because they are a right wing "Muslim no-go zone" but because they are not safe. I think that is what KiwiRob was talking about and that is how I read it.

But, what does radical right wing fear of Islam in a "free to worship as you please as long as it is our Christian God" nation have to do with Rafael "Ted" Cruz being on socialized health care?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Airstud
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Nobody would unless they were extremely stupid or so wealthy that dropping possibly tens of millions of dollars...would be a non-issue. But apparently Mr. Cruz is neither of those

Weird thing for Doc to have gotten wrong...

I guarantee you, Ted Cruz is at least one of those things...

[Edited 2015-03-26 00:34:24]
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DocLightning
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RE: Ted Cruz Is Going On Obamacare.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 33):
Weird thing for Doc to have gotten wrong...

I guarantee you, Ted Cruz is at least one of those things...

He is neither worth hundreds of millions nor is he a complete moron. He may be badly misguided, arrogant, and mean-spirited, but he is not stupid.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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