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BestWestern
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The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:53 am

The UK has just entered an election phase, and an election which is probably the most important in a generation.

The right has a new flag waver - an anti-europe, anti-everything non English UK independence party, whilst Scotland has a regenerated indpendence party.

In the centre, we have a strong, unpopular, conservative party dragged right by the anti EU brigade, and a weakened labour party thanks to a gormless leader.

The election is important due to the fabric of the nation:

* Should UK stay in Europe - No - vote UKIP

* Should Healthcare remain free - Yes - Vote Labour

* Should reducing the deficit be critical - Yes - vote conservative

UKIP will probably be the defining party of the nation. If they maintain their vote share, the lurch to the right will see a major change to the European Union through a british exit..... In my opinion, they won't maintain their support due to the party risking self destruction due to internal party real beliefs - many of their elected were outed as racist, expense fiddling, homophobes.

In my opinion, the Tory party will win a minority....

What do others think....
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GDB
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:48 pm

Very little chance of one party getting a majority or even enough seats to make a minority government anything that could last beyond their first Queen's Speech.
It's certainly the most fragmented landscape anyone can remember politically.
Dismal too.

You could add that much of the Tory party want the UK out of the EU too but most businesses (who tend to fund them) do not.

There is little enthusiasm either with most of the electorate.

We have a situation where the result is likely to be much more like typical European multi party coalitions but without either the structures or mindset - at least with the two major parties - to cope with this reality.

[Edited 2015-04-04 05:51:35]
 
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Aesma
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:56 pm

I don't know enough about UK politics but I don't understand how Cameron can have deficit reduction as a platform when he hasn't managed that so far, despite large cuts in everything.
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BestWestern
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:08 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 1):
There is little enthusiasm either with most of the electorate.


This kind of sums up the mood I'm hearing from London...




Peope seem to very cynical and I can understand why - They see through Tory spin and inability to lead and take decisions because of the vote risk (London airports for example), don't have confidence in Labour and are frightened by the near-xenophobia of UKIP reality.
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:25 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 2):
I don't know enough about UK politics but I don't understand how Cameron can have deficit reduction as a platform when he hasn't managed that so far, despite large cuts in everything.

Depending on which measure you use, the Tories have reduced the level of deficit. The real hit is that they claimed they would do it within five years based on highly unrealistic tax receipts. But overall, national debt has increased significantly.


As for the election itself, its the most intriguing of my life. The effect of the SNP, UKIP and the likely Lib Dem loss of seats leaves every seasoned commentator as much in the dark as everybody else. Lots of time for serious missteps to occur for all the parties.
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OA260
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 3):
They see through Tory spin and inability to lead and take decisions because of the vote risk (London airports for example)

Thats been going on for the last 20 years and when I was growing up there. LHR was always being used for politics. Quite a lot of influential voters under that flight path !

Personally I would like to see Cameron get back in with a majority. The Lib Dems are useless and a dead party. Labour will do what they did before and spend spend spend without money to pay for it. As in Ireland cuts have been tough in the UK but you need to cut back on money that just isn't there in a way that causes the least damage. The Conservatives despite what people say have done the best they could under the circumstances. They have many faults but the alternative is back to un controlled spending and just remember the note Labour left the last time they were kicked out ! They seemed to find it funny which just goes to show their contempt for the national economy.


http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/SNN1906GX1-682_1045976a_zpsagqjespv.jpg



Ed is a joke his brother had a lot more respect from even the other parties. He is no PM .

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 3):
and are frightened by the near-xenophobia of UKIP reality.

I would not want to see them in power but I understand why people are flocking to them. Both Labour and the Conservatives are to blame for that. Sadly some of the issues they are manipulating and making their main policy have been ignored by governments for the last two decades. A sensible common sense immigration policy should have been adopted decades ago. We don't even know who is in the UK such is the lapse open door policy.
 
GDB
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:41 am

Firstly that note is a reference to something similar said by an outgoing Tory Chancellor (Reggie Maulding, likely tipsy), to incoming Labour Chancellor Callaghan, in October 1964. 'Sorry to leave such a mess, old boy'.
The Tory Shadow in the Treasury post had joked about it with the Labour incumbent in 2010.
But there was a Coalition and a Lib Dem, well an Orange Tory really, David Laws took the post instead and being the political pygmy he is, made a big noise about it.

Not for long though, he went within weeks. Laws had to go, for one of the worst examples of expense fiddling of the whole dismal lot in 2009/10.
Poor guy, being already a millionaire he just had to fleece the public as much as possible but worse still, this total Charlie Union November Tango put his troubles down to homophobia. Despite no proof of this, ever, in his political career to date, it was 2010 not 1970 FFS.
But he was soon back and forgiven to go help screw up education.

While the last Labour government was very culpable in not regulating the banks, I don't recall - it's easily proved too - the then Tory opposition making much about this huge overspending at the time, in fact they pretty much promised to match it, right up until the crash.
As for the regulation issue, well they did attack Labour on that. For excessive regulation!
Gideon Osbourne came back from a visit to Ireland in 2006 saying we should emulate them!

The spending levels in that period were not even high by the standards of recent history. By either of the main parties when in power.
But when you have real and justified anger at any incumbent government when a crash happens on their watch - however international - an unpopular PM, a party in power for over a decade and 85% of the press on your side, it's easy to paint a picture, easier still when the now out of power party is distracted by a leadership election.

I've also found the Lib Dem line of 'we could end up like Greece' in 2010 odd, since the UK is not in the Euro, is known for playing it's debts and generally being the opposite of how Greece operates in the financial world.
This from a party who for years wanted us in the Euro!

Cameron does not deserve a majority since he's a coward.
He has bent to the anti EU loonies in the party - right from the start of his leadership - his short term attempts at political plotting have endangered both the cohesion of the UK and it's place in the world.
In Europe he's a joke, in Washington, semi marginalised.
The rise of UKIP is down to him, he once had a the balls to call them what they are, now he cowers from them and tries to appease the unappeasable.

That's not an advert for the various opposition parties, whatever form they eventually may emerge in a new coalition but it's hard to see with everything in his favour in 2010 Cameron could not get a majority, how he could achieve that this time.

His personal ratings have not been as bad as his party's partly because he can put on an assured performance for the cameras, Old Etonian confidence and all that. Though I've never seen a PM turn so nasty and personal when challenged in the Commons, his face goes brick red even. The old school PM's from the same background would never do that. Some of the dislike of him within the Tory party is down to this too.

None of the above is much of an advert for the political class as a whole is it?
No wonder so many people are done with them.

[Edited 2015-04-04 17:46:32]

[Edited 2015-04-04 17:49:33]
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:11 am

I wondered when the obligatory GDB hatred of Cameron/Tory post would come along.

I wonder no more. And still a month to go.
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scbriml
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:20 am

A seriously fragmented parliament could spell the end of the 'first past the post' voting system and herald some form of proportional representation.

The really scary thing is the disproportionate influence the SNP is likely to have after the election.
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seemyseems
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:44 am

Ahh this election will be very interesting. I'm wondering, do other members think the UK will carry on a trend of coalition governments from now on? I think so

Anyway, I will be voting (this will be my first general election vote   ) and it certainly won't be for that Cameron or Farage
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
The really scary thing is the disproportionate influence the SNP is likely to have after the election.

An area where Milliband needs to be a bit more open. What's the price for vote by vote support? As if we didn't know.

Quoting seemyseems (Reply 9):
Anyway, I will be voting (this will be my first general election vote   ) and it certainly won't be for that Cameron or Farage

Do you live in a constituency in play? Or is it relatively safe?
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
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seemyseems
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 10):
Do you live in a constituency in play? Or is it relatively safe?

Its marginal, cited to be one of the seats going to Labour along with McVey's seat, up the road
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting seemyseems (Reply 11):
Its marginal, cited to be one of the seats going to Labour along with McVey's seat, up the road

Then I envy your vote actually having a say in the upcoming election as I live in a top 20 safe party seat  
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seemyseems
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 12):
Then I envy your vote actually having a say in the upcoming election as I live in a top 20 safe party seat

Yeah its rather interesting! I might suggest that to my friends who are choosing not to vote, even my friend doing his year abroad in Russia is voting!
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GDB
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 7):
I wondered when the obligatory GDB hatred of Cameron/Tory post would come along.

I did not exactly praise the opposition though, did I?

Sure I've never been a conservative but I thought at first when Cameron became leader in 2005 that he would, as he promised, make that party more rational.
He had to of course since losing three elections in a row tends to show a problem.
Didn't go much beyond more than a few dodgy photo calls in the end.
Which is a shame since it is not a good thing to have the main opposition party so unelectable for so long, it leads to complacency and ultimately abuse of power in the governing party. As we saw in the 1990's in that long Tory reign.

He had another chance, when it became clear that the 2010 result meant a Coalition with the Lib Dems, that he could use this to moderate the headbangers in his ranks.
That did not last long either.

By all means feel free to rebut anything I wrote, the real story behind that note, the opposition stance in the 2000's, the not so glittering career of David Laws (a Lib Dem), Cameron going from calling out UKIP for what they are rather well in one sentence (which has been shown time and again to be true by the actions of that party's members) to trying match them in illogical stupidity which he must know is BS.
Or you could 'play the man not the policy', sadly a Cameron trait.

While Ed Milliband does not cut an impressive figure I get why he is there.
His brother, rather more assured and experienced, was however tainted by aspects of the Blair years which his party had not gotten over.
Perhaps expressed best when he clapped a delegate at a conference who was critical of the Iraq War, a colleague noted 'I don't know why your clapping, you voted for it'.
He was also another heir presumptive, just like Gordon Brown, look how well that worked out.

To Ed's credit - it is hard to find many of these - he did stand up to the Murdoch's in 2011, the first senior British political figure to do so. He must have known the extra level of abuse he'd get from our lovely tabloids (and some broadsheets) for that. The shrieking, irrational levels - even by their standards - of hate he is getting from the Murdoch and Dacre run press now. They are used to politicians cowering before them. This is how they were able to carry on the mass illegality for so long.

Cameron? He started with promising - his actual word - to the victims, by that I don't mean celebs, that he would back the findings of the inquiry. Didn't happen.
Speaks volumes about him.
If you don't think the west, UK included, should have bombed Syria in 2013, you have Ed to thank for that too.
Cameron took that rebuff very personally indeed. Never mind that many in his own party and his Coalition partners were also not on board.

Not much of a scoresheet after four and a half years as Leader Of The Opposition however.
You can see why the SNP, The Greens and in some cases UKIP have prospered, it's not all down to Cameron and Clegg.
 
Chaostheory
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:42 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
We don't even know who is in the UK such is the lapse open door policy.

Aye.

We need to kick them all out.

We should start with Greek and Guyanan nationals first!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
Labour will do what they did before and spend spend spend without money to pay for it.

The bulk of that spending was QE.

A policy the Tories would have followed too.

The Monster Raving Loonies will get my vote.
 
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OA260
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:50 pm

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 15):
We should start with Greek and Guyanan nationals first!

Stupid cheap remark and nothing else expected from you to be honest ! I am British born with a British passport. My parents were immigrants and came in the correct way and worked and worked and worked. My Father did two jobs and paid taxes all his life. They didn't expect to come to the UK and get given anything. They integrated with society also.

So nice cheap shot but it backfires on YOU !
 
BestWestern
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
My parents were immigrants and came in the correct way and worked and worked and worked.

Perfect response - cool, calm and to the point. UKIP paints immigrants as spongers, whilst the vast majority work hard, pay taxes, contribute to society and makes the UK an inclusive dynamic society.

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
when Cameron became leader in 2005 that he would, as he promised, make that party more rational....... Didn't go much beyond more than a few dodgy photo calls in the end.

I disagree. Cameron has modernized the party, and done things that nobody every thought a Tory party leader would do.

The standout example for me was the apology on behalf of the nation following the Bloody Sunday massacre report - findings of which were buried for decades.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMZ3CtC8KEY&list=RDvMZ3CtC8KEY&index=1

This speech, and the following visit of QEII to Ireland where she spoke in Irish, finally put divisions between the two island nations behind and set forth a course of improved friendship. For me, that is the sign of a modernizing leader. That bravery against the establishment - demonstrates what he can do.... he deserves another period in power to demonstrate he can do it again..

I just hope he stands firm and keeps the UK in the European Union.
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GDB
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 15):
The Monster Raving Loonies will get my vote.

The modern incarnation of which is UKIP.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):
I disagree. Cameron has modernized the party, and done things that nobody every thought a Tory party leader would do.

The standout example for me was the apology on behalf of the nation following the Bloody Sunday massacre report - findings of which were buried for decades.

There is the Gay Marriage law, which has upset a fair few in his own party.
I agree it would have been harder for a Tory leader to accept the Savile (no not that one) Report, though it's hard to see how any modern British PM could avoid it.

Cameron has, or had, many good socially liberal instincts but beyond those two examples they do not seem to have survived. Not so much buried as reversed.
 
BestWestern
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
though it's hard to see how any modern British PM could avoid it.

He could have fluffed the Apology...

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
There is the Gay Marriage law, which has upset a fair few in his own party.

Very true...

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
Cameron has, or had, many good socially liberal instincts

In true conservative (European style conservative rather than UK style I must say) fashion - Cameron is more preoccupied with finances than morality....
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Chaostheory
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
The modern incarnation of which is UKIP.

Good one.

I just had a look and it appears the Loony lot aren't standing in my Bromsgrove constituency.

Alas, Greens or Labour it is then.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 19):
In true conservative (European style conservative rather than UK style I must say) fashion - Cameron is more preoccupied with finances than morality....

There was a recent poll which suggested the majority of the public would support a tax increase if it went into the NHS (I would), yet there hasn't been even a murmur of a response from the parties.
 
blueflyer
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):
I just hope he stands firm and keeps the UK in the European Union.

I just hope he stands firm and walks the UK out of the European Union. I hope it isn't news, but the "in but pinching our nose and blocking everything" UK approach to the EU for the past 20 years has grown old and tiresome. Time to go. Being the 51st state might suit better, what with that supposedly special relationship.
 
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OA260
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):
whilst the vast majority work hard, pay taxes, contribute to society and makes the UK an inclusive dynamic society.

True its the minority who don't do that and give the majority of hard working immigrants a bad name that need to be challenged. If you don't put anything into the state then you shouldnt be allowed to get anything back. Same applies to UK citizens who avoid work. Saying there are no jobs in their field is no excuse. If there is a job then you go into a different field until you gain reemployment in your chosen career. I wouldnt have expected to come to Ireland and do that. Yet the PC brigade label you as UKIP supporters if you dare to mention it. Pathetic argument.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 21):
Time to go.

Taking personal views on the EU aside how do you think if any event of a EU exit would they fund the gap in lost contributions from the UK? Again Im not talking from a political point of view but curious as to how the loss of the UK contribution would be handled/afforded?

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
There is the Gay Marriage law, which has upset a fair few in his own party.

We have a referendum on it here in Ireland in May. Its been quite tough at times too.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):
The standout example for me was the apology on behalf of the nation following the Bloody Sunday massacre report - findings of which were buried for decades.

That was well overdue and its certainly not one of the UK's finest moments. Lots of British people didn't realise what was being done in Ireland in their name. I didn't until I came here and lived in the North.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):
This speech, and the following visit of QEII to Ireland where she spoke in Irish, finally put divisions between the two island nations behind and set forth a course of improved friendship.

That was amazing it seemed surreal at the time for a British citizen living in Ireland. It changed everything. When I moved to Ireland it was towards the end of the troubles and is a different world now thank god. So for that I am proud of what the current British government has done with regards to Anglo/Irish relations despite huge opposition from some Unionist parties.

Ireland is quite concerned about a EU exit as it would loose an important ally. I suppose the CTA would still be in place worst case scenario and Ireland would remain outside Schengen area. The current British and Irish governments have worked hard to align visas which allow tourists from various countries to limit the red tape and not having to apply for seperate visas.
 
Derico
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:35 pm

Given all these apparent rifts within the UK, and even within the constituent states, it's no wonder I keep hearing out of so many circles in that country that the Argentine (re)-invasion of the Falklands is imminent, even days away! No doubt it would such smoke and mirrors talk can help unify the country again and thus so many are praying for it to happen (with of course, no basis whatsoever to support that assertion).
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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OA260
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 23):
Given all these apparent rifts within the UK, and even within the constituent states, it's no wonder I keep hearing out of so many circles in that country that the Argentine (re)-invasion of the Falklands is imminent, even days away! No doubt it would such smoke and mirrors talk can help unify the country again and thus so many are praying for it to happen (with of course, no basis whatsoever to support that assertion).

It really has played 0.1% in the news here to be honest. I saw it online where the PM was asked about it by a newspaper because it had been reported that Argentina was planning to lease 12 long range bombers from Russia so he responded with the usual comment which is the Falklands will always be defended by the UK. End of story no real issues back to proper news. The only other bit of news from your neck of the woods was that Argentina will take legal action over oil drilling off the Falklands. Again no real news I was more concerned with opening my Easter Egg  

So no smoke or mirrors here there are more important issues being used / debated. I guess you are hearing more about it in the news there but its not the case here. Rifts happen in all countries when an election is around. Of course if you search online for the news items you mention its there to see but certainly not being discussed by the British public or aired on TV. Certainly not part of the election campaign.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
I did not exactly praise the opposition though, did I?

What would you praise exactly?

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
By all means feel free to rebut anything I wrote

Its always hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff with some of your posts, but here goes:

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
the opposition stance in the 2000's

Which of the four different leaders are you referring to? Its quite vague just saying the 2000's.

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
the not so glittering career of David Laws (a Lib Dem),

A victim of the expense scandal that also claimed the incumbent Labour Home Secretary. Whats your point?

His arrival back in the cabinet? I'll see your Laws and raise you the actually glittering career of Mandelson. Again, what's your point?

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
Cameron going from calling out UKIP for what they are rather well in one sentence (which has been shown time and again to be true by the actions of that party's members) to trying match them in illogical stupidity which he must know is BS.

Matching them how exactly? Some form of control on non-EU immigration is hardly a UKIP base. It's one of Labour's five election pledges. And its right to limit access to certain state benefits until a certain contributory period has been attained. As we're constantly told that immigrants give more that they take, its a non-issue, non?

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
To Ed's credit - it is hard to find many of these - he did stand up to the Murdoch's in 2011, the first senior British political figure to do so.

A principle curiously absent between 97-2010. Tents and direction of spitting come to mind.

And why you are spinning this as standing up to Murdoch is a mystery. What he was ACTUALLY advocating was for state regulators to be granted powers to break up media corporations because they may not support his political viewpoint. I find that ultimately sinister. Why don't you?

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
This is how they were able to carry on the mass illegality for so long.

Anyone else behaving illegally in the press?

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
Speaks volumes about him.

And Millibands silence on Mirror hacking says what about him?

This is too easy!

Quoting GDB (Reply 6):
Though I've never seen a PM turn so nasty and personal when challenged in the Commons, his face goes brick red even.

Nasty? When? What was apparent to me (as my work pattern meant I was usually off on a Wednesday and I watched PMQ's) was how often Cameron wiped the floor with him. Even when their was plenty of ammunition, Milliband just couldn't sell it.

Cameron isn't a great leader. Of that there is no argument but he pushed gay marriage and Overseas aid through against the will of some of his party, which even Milliband gave him credit for. The apologies for Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough and the final pardoning of Turing were also the right things to do.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:52 pm

I'm normally a Tory voter, but I can't vote for them this year with Jeremy Hunt still doing his thing. So this election is going to be very interesting...
 
Chaostheory
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:21 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 26):
I'm normally a Tory voter, but I can't vote for them this year with Jeremy Hunt still doing his thing.

He has wrought havoc on the NHS.

The huge drop in the number of GPs is due to his policies.

Of course, my wife and every other doc in the local A+E has to pick up the slack.
 
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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 27):

My wifes a GP  
 
Chaostheory
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 28):
My wifes a GP

Our wives could meet up and burn effigies of Hunt together!

 
 
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Dano1977
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:03 pm

I shall be voting conservative.

Personally I don't believe Ed Miliband is PM material.

But if you thought UKIP were mad... Just look at the Green Party with it's Moonhowler leader.



The Greens want us living in tents and going back to a tribal economy, on a diet of mung beans and lentils...

some of their policies....

Import taxes will be levied on goods brought to Britain reflecting the “ecological impact” of making them – with tariffs reintroduced for trade between Britain and the rest of Europe, ending the free trade bloc.

The “overall volume” of advertising on TV and newspapers will be controlled and cut, as part of a war on the “materialist and consumption driven culture which is not sustainable”.

diversifying of holiday flights will be controlled by law to halt the “promotion of a high-carbon lifestyle”. New taxes would be imposed on carriers to reduce passenger numbers.

Merely being a member of al-Qaeda, the IRA and other currently proscribed terrorist groups will no longer be a criminal offence under

Britain will leave NATO, end the special relationship with the US, and unilaterally abandon nuclear weapons. A standing army, navy and airforce is “unnecessary”. Bases will be turned into nature reserves and the arms industry “converted” to producing windturbines.

Access to benefits, the right to vote and tax obligations will apply to everyone living on British soil, regardless of passport. The policy book states: “We will work to create a world of global inter-responsibility in which the concept of a ‘British national’ is irrelevant and outdated.”

The flagship policy is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income of £71 a week for everyone living in Britain “as a right of citizenship”, regardless of wealth or whether they are seeking work or in work.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 28):
Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 29):

What do the health professionals think will happen if a Labour coalition gains office? What will change?

I'm genuinely interested on a personal level as 2014 was a horrible year for my family medically and honestly, the NHS was mostly superb.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 31):
What do the health professionals think will happen if a Labour coalition gains office? What will change?

Take a look at who in the current government voted for the various legislations which are the foundation of privatising NHS services - and then look at what companies those MPs own or have stakes in.

You will find a fairly high correlation between Tory MPs and private healthcare providers who are set to make an absolute mint from the forthcoming move to private service providers...

On the face of it, a Labour government will stop the immediate threat of moving wholesale to private service providers.

Also, Labour are stopping or reversing the PMS to GMS conversions of GP surgeries, which is going to kill an awful lot of existing PMS GP practices in the next 2 years who can't offer the additional services required under GMS contracts (PMS contracts will not be renewed, meaning the practice either has to go private or stop operating altogether).

Theres a heck of a lot of detail in the specifics which people gloss over and instead concentrate on funding. But even with the funding, there are major issues - the Tories do come out on top on current promises, as Labours promises dont kick in until their second year. But in both cases, funding increases are off by about £18Billion.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:59 pm

This election is an interesting one for me, in that I know quite a number of the parliamentary and local election candidates in my own and surrounding constituencies pretty well. Because of this I plan on casting my vote based on how I feel they will perform and represent me, rather than the party colour. With a 2010 majority of 16,000, my home constituency is unlikely to switch from the Tory incumbent anyway, but it will be very interesting to watch the campaigns in the Plymouth constituencies where both Labour and the Conservatives are fighting strong support for UKIP.

In terms of leaders, I would be uncomfortable with anyone other than Cameron leading the country. This is not so much an endorsement of the Torys, more that to me Milliband is far too weak and inexperienced to be at the helm, quite aside of lacking charisma. As it stands I don't think either 'big' party will gain a majority and that the Lib Dems will be pretty much wiped out, quite possibly including poor old Clegg.

Quoting moo (Reply 28):
Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 29):

I'd be interested to hear your/your wives' views on the Tory plans to extend the opening times of GP surgeries. As somebody who works 10+ hours a day, I find this really appealing, but I'm not familiar with the practicalities of this idea. I know a couple of GPs and nurses socially, and they already seem incredibly stretched.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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scbriml
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 12):
Then I envy your vote actually having a say in the upcoming election as I live in a top 20 safe party seat

This is the biggest problem with the 'first past the post' system - only around 20% of constituencies actually matter (the rest being almost 100% safe for their relative party). Most elections are decided by those seats where the majority is less than 10% of the total vote.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 33):
I'd be interested to hear your/your wives' views on the Tory plans to extend the opening times of GP surgeries. As somebody who works 10+ hours a day, I find this really appealing, but I'm not familiar with the practicalities of this idea. I know a couple of GPs and nurses socially, and they already seem incredibly stretched.

Theres no money to do it, and no doctors to take the work on.

My wife works four days a week, starts at 8am and doesn't get home until 8pm most days - and then she has to do her GP Portfolio for revalidation, read medical texts etc to keep up to date, and go on courses regularly for the Continual Professional Development aspect of her revalidation.

When the Tories announced the plan to open GP surgeries longer, they also announced additional funding of £250Million to cover it. Except that if you do the math, you would need an additional £4Billion to cover the extra staff and services offered.

So theres the issue with not enough funding.

They can't expect the existing GP workforce to carry the burden either, because they are already overworked, so they need more staff.

And thats the second issue with the plan - GP trainee schemes are finding themselves dramatically undersubscribed, so much so that a third of them plan to close for the 2016 intake year. No one wants to be a GP. So not enough trainees to cover the current entropy of retirements, let alone the huge increase in opening hours and services the Tories want.

The problem is so bad that my wife has been offered a partnership at every single GP surgery she has worked at since she graduated (yes, she's a locum rather than a salaried GP or partner). Many GP surgeries are struggling to meet minimum partnership requirements - and its not because graduates are becoming locum for financial gain, its because there aren't enough GPs graduating at all.

Opening longer hours is a nice fluffy goal to announce, but actually doing it is another thing entirely. In an ideal world we would be able to see a doctor at 8pm when we come off a shift or whatever, but also in an ideal world there would be the budget for it, and there would be the staff for it.
 
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Aesma
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
A seriously fragmented parliament could spell the end of the 'first past the post' voting system and herald some form of proportional representation.

Yeah first past the post and other similar systems don't work when you have three parties in the 25-35% range. Either you get an assembly where no-one has a majority, or you get a majority but 60% of people haven't actually voted for that majority.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
GDB
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
Which of the four different leaders are you referring to? Its quite vague just saying the 2000's.

Under Hague they were vague, when one of his team mentioned spending cuts they were told to shut up, same under Howard, I missed out Duncan-Smith but then so do the Tories! And of course under 'let there be sunshine' Cameron too. Until late 2008. As others have said that was really about QE, which Osbourne has also indulged in.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
A victim of the expense scandal that also claimed the incumbent Labour Home Secretary. Whats your point?

They were all crap, some had lame excuses - Jackie Smith included, just no one tried the line Laws did. He was one of the worst and was back as a minister PDQ. You said it, others were sacked as ministers and stayed so. He also had the least need of the money.
Lib Dems eh?

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
A principle curiously absent between 97-2010. Tents and direction of spitting come to mind.

Just about all of the political class were terrified of Murdoch. However Cameron and then Culture Sec Hunt were about to gift Murdoch an even larger slice of the UK media pie. They so sure of the rightness of this remember how Hunt tried to literally hide behind a tree to avoid being seen in the company of members of the group!
Additional cover came from Inspector Knacker of the Yard, those senior Met officers and their relationships with the Murdochs.
But then the whole thing was all 'an inverted pyramid of piffle', as one Boris Johnson put it right before it was proved in fact to be true.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
And Millibands silence on Mirror hacking says what about him?

You know full well that in 2011 the inquiry was about abuses by newspapers in general but the evidence then was pointed at Murdoch. It is only more recently emerged about the Mirror (partly due to Piers Morgan's big, stupid mouth).
But the Mail essentially takes the same line as the Murdoch's even though they were not implicated in phone hacking.
That is 'leave us alone to do what we like, to who we like, with no consequences'. Anyone who remotely challenges that idea will get a shit storm thrown at them, Milliband knew that as much as any politician.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
This is too easy!

Anything is that regurgitates the line of our wonderful press.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 25):
Nasty? When? What was apparent to me (as my work pattern meant I was usually off on a Wednesday and I watched PMQ's) was how often Cameron wiped the floor with him. Even when their was plenty of ammunition, Milliband just couldn't sell it.

I wasn't even specifically referring to Cameron and the Opposition, he's been equally shitty to his own.
I can find as many examples of the floor being wiped the other way, for all the use that PMQ theatre is.
He had a well earned reputation before becoming PM for being a nasty piece of work when even a minor disagreement or challenge amongst his own made that not too well fixed mask slip.
But he does lose his rag - not wipe the floor or make a telling point, there is a difference, way quicker nastier than any PM since the Commons were televised. Brown just sulked, Blair just grinned, Major's voice went up several octaves but he kept his cool.
 
blueflyer
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Taking personal views on the EU aside how do you think if any event of a EU exit would they fund the gap in lost contributions from the UK? Again Im not talking from a political point of view but curious as to how the loss of the UK contribution would be handled/afforded?

A budget crisis is a terrible thing to waste, time to make some cutbacks. More seriously though, estimates of the net UK contribution range from £1 to £6 billions, meaning that it is possible redirecting the UK rebate to the EU budget alone will be enough to plug the gap.

If additional savings are needed, I'd start with the CAP and operating expenses. Moving Brussels to Strasbourg twice a year is a very expensive and not-so-funny French joke. Total net compensation for European Commission employees is also pretty high even by international organization standards. It's as though living in Brussels' outer suburbs is undignified.
 
TristarAtLCA
Posts: 636
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 37):
They were all crap, some had lame excuses - Jackie Smith included, just no one tried the line Laws did. He was one of the worst and was back as a minister PDQ. You said it, others were sacked as ministers and stayed so.

Jacqui Smith talking to the Guardian in 2009:

Six weeks on, Smith is talking about it publicly for the first time. She insists she wasn't forced out - that Brown asked her to stay when she first said she wanted out. But, she says, the job had become untenable. She'd lost control of what was said about her, she'd lost her confidence and she was demoralised. "Gordon didn't have to ask me to stay when it was just me and him in the room. He could have just accepted it. But I do think it would have been difficult for me to continue."

She wasn't sacked, she walked after being asked to stay, displaying political nous Brown could only dream of.

Very few of any party were innocent.

Quoting GDB (Reply 37):
Just about all of the political class were terrified of Murdoch. However Cameron and then Culture Sec Hunt were about to gift Murdoch an even larger slice of the UK media pie. .

Every political party is terrified of anybody who buys ink by the barrel. Cameron made a deal with Murdoch? No shit Sherlock. Whats new? Murdoch would often boast openly at parties how he and Blair ran the UK. Blair didn't get his support for nowt. Even if Cable had kept his mouth shut it wouldn't have mattered. The phone hacking story emerged and that ended that episode.

You still haven't told us if you agree the state should have the power to break up media businesses due to political considerations as Milliband advocated.

Quoting GDB (Reply 37):
You know full well that in 2011 the inquiry was about abuses by newspapers in general but the evidence then was pointed at Murdoch.

Everybody in the press knew it was widespread just as they knew Morgan perjured himself at Levenson. What does it matter what was thought then? Stop deflecting. Its known now and Miilliband remains silent after making hay when the initial revelations came out. Like I said earlier, much easie to have a principle when it serves your purpose.

Quoting GDB (Reply 37):
Anything is that regurgitates the line of our wonderful press.

Theres a Lib Dem supporting paper out there? Where? As thats who I voted for in the last two elections. Have another go.

Quoting GDB (Reply 37):
I wasn't even specifically referring to Cameron and the Opposition, he's been equally shitty to his own.
I can find as many examples of the floor being wiped the other way, for all the use that PMQ theatre is.
He had a well earned reputation before becoming PM for being a nasty piece of work when even a minor disagreement or challenge amongst his own made that not too well fixed mask slip.

Oh, PMQ's is awful but generally great entertainment on a Wednesday afternoon but I guarantee the balance was strongly in Camerons favour. But how about some examples of this 'nastiness' you claim to see so clearly?
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
GDB
Posts: 13661
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 39):
ome untenable. She'd lost control of what was said about her, she'd lost her confidence and she was demoralised. "Gordon didn't have to ask me to stay when it was just me and him in the room. He could have just accepted it. But I do think it would have been difficult for me to continue."

She wasn't sacked, she walked after being asked to stay, displaying political nous Brown could only dream of.

And do you think would have happened had Smith said 'I want to stay'?
Laws was back, pretty fast, they couldn't wait to welcome him.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 39):
Every political party is terrified of anybody who buys ink by the barrel. Cameron made a deal with Murdoch? No shit Sherlock. Whats new? Murdoch would often boast openly at parties how he and Blair ran the UK. Blair didn't get his support for nowt. Even if Cable had kept his mouth shut it wouldn't have mattered. The phone hacking story emerged and that ended that episode.

You still haven't told us if you agree the state should have the power to break up media businesses due to political considerations as Milliband advocated.

What's Blair got to do with it? We know he kowtowed to Murdoch to the dismay of plenty in his own party.
There was a PM who wanted to do something, pre phone hacking, about the excesses of the press most starkly shown by Murdoch.
John Major. Not after the 'Back To Basics' fiasco but right from the start.
No one would back him, he told a sympathetic Labour MP as much.

I think the UK should have similar rules on large scale media ownership as most EU nations and the US.
A requirement to be a UK citizen, why do you think Murdoch became a US one?
He only was allowed the set up in China to the limited extent he has by agreeing to also be the censor for the Chinese Communist Party, along with the rest of the media there, which sits uneasily with all the BS he and his group spouts about freedom of the press.

The state should have the power to break up a media business, not for political reasons which Milliband is not advocating, though I can guess who is attributing that line to him, but for the same reasons as the state has done so in the past and can still do now, if their practices are anti competitive, or criminal or both.
With the press they have been found time and again to be totally unable to regulate themselves, their attitude is one of contempt.

Add in large scale criminal activity then to my mind it's obvious that left to their own devices they'll never change.
Had the phone hacking been done in the US, Murdoch would have his empire broken up.
They were for a time bricking it that the US 'Foreign Corrupt Practices Act' might be applied to them.
That it wasn't showed just how cautious his papers were in the US, not from reporting the news, doing investigative work but from criminal activity.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 39):
Everybody in the press knew it was widespread just as they knew Morgan perjured himself at Levenson. What does it matter what was thought then? Stop deflecting. Its known now and Miilliband remains silent after making hay when

We'll have to see, with more than 4 weeks of the campaign to run if at the numerous events where the press will be, he's asked, we'll know. Surely certain titles will want to know too.
Coming in the fallout from 2011, the end of the News of The World, then Levenson, these newer revelations, now in detail, now subject to the law, haven't even been major news events. On TV or in the press.
What he did not do was promise to back the victims and their families - the non celebs - on this, only to renege.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 39):
Theres a Lib Dem supporting paper out there? Where? As thats who I voted for in the last two elections. Have another go.

Yes, at the last election The Guardian.
Don't believe me? Check their site, you don't even have to go back to 2010 as they still get angry letters about it!
Not sure about The Independent.
That Lib Dem supporting paper is also one of the few which accepts the need for change, that self regulation is no longer acceptable.

[Edited 2015-04-06 12:38:41]

[Edited 2015-04-06 12:40:00]
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:12 pm

The Labour Party under Tony Blair really got beat up after joining GW Bush in the Iraq War.

Has Ed Miliband rebuilt the party from scratch or "drawing board".

Regarding UKIP, I can't see how being isolationist would benefit the UK as it's geography isn't going to change -- being part of Europe.

Stay part of EU but off the Euro?

Not sure about David Cameron as PM - has UK gotten that much worse?

[Edited 2015-04-06 13:14:24]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Thread starter):
* Should Healthcare remain free - Yes - Vote Labour

I doubt there is any party standing at the election who would dare to impose charges for medical treatment. Even the privatisation of various services which was started by Labour seems to have ground to a halt.
]

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 4):

Quoting Aesma (Reply 2):
I don't know enough about UK politics but I don't understand how Cameron can have deficit reduction as a platform when he hasn't managed that so far, despite large cuts in everything.

Depending on which measure you use, the Tories have reduced the level of deficit. The real hit is that they claimed they would do it within five years based on highly unrealistic tax receipts. But overall, national debt has increased significantly.

I think the primary reason for missing the deficit targets was the collapse of economies elsewhere. Its difficult to export goods and services to Countries whose economy is even worse than ours.

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 27):

The huge drop in the number of GPs is due to his policies.

Dealing regularly with GP's the biggest problem I see is the lots of older GP's going part time, or even retiring and seemingly few replacements. The part time working part seemed to come along just after the previous Govt gave GP's a huge pay rise. Not only that, but a reduction of only £6.5k per year if they no longer provided night and weekend cover. Overnight GP's could earn as much on 3 days as they previously did in 5.

There also appears to be an image problem with being a GP, once they were highly respected members of the community, day or night they were there for their patients, along came the new way of working and night cover is provided by area drop in centres and emergency providers. Added to which there's a quote today in a newspaper of a lecturer at a medical school telling new students that he wants them to work hard so they don't end up doing poorly and ending up as GP's !!!
 
TristarAtLCA
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
And do you think would have happened had Smith said 'I want to stay'?

As a hypothetical, told to resign. In reality, asked to stay and never denied by Brown at any time. She done the right thing.

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
What's Blair got to do with it?

To highlight the bleeding obvious. Murdoch is courted by all.

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
A requirement to be a UK citizen, why do you think Murdoch became a US one?

Sorry? Whats the problem with a foreigner owning a newspaper or TV station here?

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
He only was allowed the set up in China to the limited extent he has by agreeing to also be the censor for the Chinese Communist Party, along with the rest of the media there, which sits uneasily with all the BS he and his group spouts about freedom of the press.

Oh what utter crap. He agreed to obey their rules, like everybody else, to set up a business in China. Its not complicated to understand.

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
The state should have the power to break up a media business, not for political reasons which Milliband is not advocating, though I can guess who is attributing that line to him, but for the same reasons as the state has done so in the past and can still do now, if their practices are anti competitive, or criminal or both.

This is Millibands reasoning to break up Murdoch 'empire':

"I think that we've got to look at the situation whereby one person can own more than 20% of the newspaper market, the Sky platform and Sky News," Miliband said. "I think it's unhealthy because that amount of power in one person's hands has clearly led to abuses of power within his organisation. If you want to minimise the abuses of power then that kind of concentration of power is frankly quite dangerous."

His reasoning is so staggeringly contrived. A fifth of papers in a medium which is in steady decline, a TV platform which only profits with sport subscriptions and a news channel routinely mocked for it appalling coverage (remember when the Pope hadn't actually died) which like all 24 hour news channels here gets next to no audience share is not a concentration of power. Just where the hell is this massive influence?

Just admit what it was. Political grandstanding, aided by the appalling hiring of Coulson, in the wake of hacking revelations by a party leader who never mentioned this empire while Murdoch supported them and got the bump he was seeking.

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
I think the UK should have similar rules on large scale media ownership as most EU nations and the US.

I don't know about the EU but you've got to be kidding about the US or just not paying attention.

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/10...almost-everything-watch-hear-read/

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
We'll have to see, with more than 4 weeks of the campaign to run if at the numerous events where the press will be, he's asked, we'll know. Surely certain titles will want to know too.

What?

He's been asked many times. And evades. Honestly, In his position, I would do the same. Its lose-lose.

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
Yes, at the last election The Guardian.

Goddamit, you're right! Never knew they switched allegiance and I look at their site regularly. Ah well, I read the Times and still voted for them.

[Edited 2015-04-06 15:28:28]
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12853
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
My Father did two jobs and paid taxes all his life. They didn't expect to come to the UK and get given anything. They integrated with society also.

It was a different world when your parents immigrated, today many immigrants don't come for work they come for benefits.
 
TristarAtLCA
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
I think the primary reason for missing the deficit targets was the collapse of economies elsewhere. Its difficult to export goods and services to Countries whose economy is even worse than ours.

I remember around that time an economist on TV was asked his opinion on likelihood of the economic and deficit goals being met considering the downturn. His response was that to succeed many, many, many events had to align themselves positively to even be remotely possible. When asked had it ever happened, 'No, never' came the smiling response.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
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moo
Posts: 4940
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:33 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
The part time working part seemed to come along just after the previous Govt gave GP's a huge pay rise.

How much do you honestly think GPs are getting paid? I am genuinely interested.

And do you take into consideration the costs associated with being a GP?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
Not only that, but a reduction of only £6.5k per year if they no longer provided night and weekend cover.

That shows you more how little money was involved in the original OOH GP services contract than anything else.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
Overnight GP's could earn as much on 3 days as they previously did in 5.

Sure, if you discount all the other costs which have gone through the roof...

Shall we talk about the services which patients still demand GPs to supply but the government doesn't cover? Shall we talk about the useless QOF targets which cost more to hit than the NHS pays the GPs to provide?

How about the fact that GP partnership NHS contracts have only gone up by 1% the past three years, while the cost of providing the services under those contracts have gone up by 10% in the same period?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
along came the new way of working and night cover is provided by area drop in centres and emergency providers

Not to mention the massive increase in use of GP services over the past 20 years. Some of the rubbish my wife has to deal with would make your blood boil - especially the cases like the teenager wanting a home visit because she had a cold, or the parents who continually demand antibiotics because they have a viral infection etc etc.

As I said above, my wife starts at 8am and often doesn't get home until 8pm. During that time she has to call back 30 or more patients, physically see another 45 in the surgery, and do 3 - 4 home visits. And then do all the referrals, test results etc etc.

And her opinion is that 90% of the people that she sees should never have come to the GP in the first place. That's not being harsh, thats us as a society who have failed to pass down the knowledge of how to deal with simple things at home, like d&v. My parents generation would never have bothered a doctor with a simple case of d&v, but now my wife sees three or four a day.
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 929
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:52 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 41):
The Labour Party under Tony Blair really got beat up after joining GW Bush in the Iraq War.

Has Ed Miliband rebuilt the party from scratch or "drawing board".

Regarding UKIP, I can't see how being isolationist would benefit the UK as it's geography isn't going to change -- being part of Europe.

Stay part of EU but off the Euro?

Not sure about David Cameron as PM - has UK gotten that much worse?

I rarely go to non-av, but excited to see this thread. Perhaps, I'll be checking back more often.

In terms of Miliband "rebuilding", you have to remember that he, as long as most of his cabinet were in the Brown ministry. The big names that matter - Balls, Harman, Cooper, Alexander, Burnham, and Khan all had important posts under Brown. Miliband, Balls, Harman, and Cooper are all considered Brownites at the core. So, there hasn't been a huge rebuilding. Labour basically went from Blair/Brown's New Labour to Miliband's One-nation Labour.

While UKIP did well in the European Parliament elections, they probably won't get more than 5 seats in this election IMO (interestingly enough, the current over/under on betting lines is 4.5 seats).
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12853
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:44 am

Quoting moo (Reply 46):
How much do you honestly think GPs are getting paid? I am genuinely interested.

Depends on the country, in NZ a GP does very well, my uncle is very wealthy. In Norway a GP doesn't make anywhere near as much money as in NZ, so it varies from country to couintry I suspect.

Quoting moo (Reply 46):
And her opinion is that 90% of the people that she sees should never have come to the GP in the first place.

In NZ your local chemist is often a first port of call, especially with some mild like a cold or similar.
 
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moo
Posts: 4940
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:51 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
Depends on the country, in NZ a GP does very well, my uncle is very wealthy. In Norway a GP doesn't make anywhere near as much money as in NZ, so it varies from country to couintry I suspect.

Well, since this is a UK election thread...  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
In NZ your local chemist is often a first port of call, especially with some mild like a cold or similar.

That is as it should be - but unfortunately we are seeing a significant upsurge in GP visits from the younger population who want to be seen for minor illnesses such as colds, flus, headaches etc.

Also, the number of people who are on benefits with children who want paracetamol on prescription (paracetamol is like 20p for a 16 pack) because they get free prescriptions.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos