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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:13 pm

Quoting bjcc (Reply 149):
In other words, you've just revamped what I said........Please don't, all it does it show you can't think for yourself.

Oh come on, leave the insults out of it.

And no, I didn't revamp what you said - the Law Lords, which are (currently, all due to change as the current set retire) 12 sitting Lords who have judicial experience, are chosen from all the Lords who sit in the House of Lords. They are not necessarily given seats in the House of Lords because they are Judges and certainly not because they have been given the position of Law Lord.

Your exact comment on the matter was:

Quoting bjcc (Reply 146):
We have a numbver of groups who sit in the Lords purely because they hold a position. The Law Lords for example.

And since the Law Lords are Lords before they are Law Lords, or in some cases even judges, your assertion is false.

Quoting bjcc (Reply 149):
An independent Judge who has heard both the facts and mitigation should be the only person deciding sentence.

No, they should not, because that way you end up with a massive range of sentencing going on - guidelines, limits and minimum terms were introduced for precisely that reason. It is a judges job to uphold the law as it was written at the time of the offence, and they do that within the bounds of that law - including sentencing requirements. And only an elected body should be creating laws and setting sentencing requirements.
 
bjcc
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 01, 2015 11:53 am

Moo

Stop digging.

"No, they should not, because that way you end up with a massive range of sentencing going on - guidelines, limits and minimum terms were introduced for precisely that reason. It is a judges job to uphold the law as it was written at the time of the offence, and they do that within the bounds of that law - including sentencing requirements. And only an elected body should be creating laws and setting sentencing requirements. "

You really have no idea do you?

A Judges job isn't to 'uphold' law, it is to interpret it. Please dop some research. Upholding law is a public duty, and everyones responsibility, but because the public had abdicated that we now have a police foirce to do it on our behalf.

The system worked perfectly well without Gudilenes for years. There was no huge diversity in sentencing acorss the Country save in an area where a particular crime was significent and a serious problem. So for example a robber in Stockwell would likely get a higher sentence than someone who committed a similar offence at Lands End.

That was right and proper.

The only reason we now have political interference is because the Criminal Justice System costs a lot of cash. It's far cheaper to reduce its use.

Anyway, moving on.

Does the panel think.....Its OK Moo, you don't have answer, its obvious you don't....

Did Milliberk sink his own boat when he ruled out a pact/agreement/coilition with the SNP?

[Edited 2015-05-01 04:55:22]
 
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moo
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 01, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting bjcc (Reply 151):
Moo

Stop digging.

Seriously?

Quoting bjcc (Reply 151):
A Judges job isn't to 'uphold' law, it is to interpret it. Please dop some research. Upholding law is a public duty, and everyones responsibility, but because the public had abdicated that we now have a police foirce to do it on our behalf.

And a Judge is required to interpret the law in specific ways, so as the law is upheld. They can't go off crusading in totally different directions, they have to rule on the law as passed, or rule that there is grounds for the law to be invalid, but they cannot make law and they cannot rule where there is no law or in such a way which is detrimental to the law as passed. The most dissent they can do is pass the law back to the politicians.

How about you do some research, hmm?

Quoting bjcc (Reply 151):
The system worked perfectly well without Gudilenes for years. There was no huge diversity in sentencing acorss the Country save in an area where a particular crime was significent and a serious problem. So for example a robber in Stockwell would likely get a higher sentence than someone who committed a similar offence at Lands End.

Guidelines have been part of the UK judicial system now for .... oooh, over 130 years. And before then, there were massive discrepancies in sentencing, with people in some places being transported to Australia or hanged for minor offences such as stealing, and in other places getting sentenced to the stocks or jail time.

Quoting bjcc (Reply 151):
Anyway, moving on.

Does the panel think.....Its OK Moo, you don't have answer, its obvious you don't....

Ahh, so you aren't actually interested in the truth, or having a discussion, just insulting others then?
 
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zckls04
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 01, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting bjcc (Reply 151):
Did Milliberk sink his own boat when he ruled out a pact/agreement/coilition with the SNP?

He doesn't need a coalition- I'm mystified as to why people think he does. All he needs is for the SNP to vote with him immediately after the election to force the Tories out, at which point he'll be able to form a minority government.

After all the SNP's bluster about getting rid of the Tories, there's no way they wouldn't do so. Milliband would hold the balance of power so wouldn't have to acceded to any of the SNP's demands.

Might make governing a little tricky, but again, Labor hold the balance of power; even more than the Tories did in 2010, since the Tories are so universally hated in Scotland. Why would any SNP leader vote against Labor in a vote of no confidence that let the Tories back in? That would be political suicide. In any case Sturgeon has already ruled it out.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 1:18 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02qmyg0

Tut tut Labours segregated audience in Birmingham.

Another nail in the pander to islam party.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 153):
After all the SNP's bluster about getting rid of the Tories, there's no way they wouldn't do so. Milliband would hold the balance of power so wouldn't have to acceded to any of the SNP's demands.

That's not how these kinds of governments work, the party forming the minority govt either Labor or Tory will need smaller parties to side with them for confidence and supply, that gives the smaller party SNP or LibDems the power to make or break the govt, they hold all the cards and will use them to get what they want. In many respects the Tories and Labor are just along for the ride.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 153):
Why would any SNP leader vote against Labor in a vote of no confidence that let the Tories back in? That would be political suicide. In any case Sturgeon has already ruled it out.

Easy it's politics, she'll flip flop all the way to get what she wants.

Quoting giancavia (Reply 154):
Tut tut Labours segregated audience in Birmingham.

And people say the Islamification of Europe is a myth, then we see crap like this.
 
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garpd
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 155):
And people say the Islamification of Europe is a myth, then we see crap like this.

Indeed. And if you speak up about or simply discuss it, you're labelled a racist!
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 156):
Indeed. And if you speak up about or simply discuss it, you're labelled a racist!

Under Miliband you would be a criminal.

I have stated it many times but I dont really understand it. Feminists and UK Liberals vote for the kind of people that pander to religious cults even though they would be the first buried up to their faces and stoned or thrown off the top of a building. It makes no sense at all it hurts my head.

The reality is the choice is either Conservatives who pander to rich boys or Labour who pander to fanatical religious nutjobs. I would choose the rich boys every time. Atleast they arent afraid of Alcohol, Boobs & most other things enjoyable in life. I loathe religion being a part of any law so anyone who puts it on a pedastal I am immediately put off by.. Kind of Ironic Miliband claims to be an Atheist and Cameron is Religious yet when it comes to policy you are more likely to get some kind of Blasphemy law under the champagne socialist than the Conservative leader.
 
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zckls04
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 155):
That's not how these kinds of governments work, the party forming the minority govt either Labor or Tory will need smaller parties to side with them for confidence and supply, that gives the smaller party SNP or LibDems the power to make or break the govt, they hold all the cards and will use them to get what they want. In many respects the Tories and Labor are just along for the ride.

And yet Cameron accomplished about 80% of his policy aims for his first term. The above is not borne out by reality.

It doesn't matter though- this is a special case- no SNP leader will vote against Labor in a no confidence vote which allows the Tories to get back in. It simply won't happen. Ever ever ever.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 155):
Easy it's politics, she'll flip flop all the way to get what she wants.

Sturgeon (or any other SNP leader) will not let the Tories back in. If they do the SNP will get wiped out in the next election.
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Kiwirob
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 158):
Ever ever ever.

It's politics you can't say ever ever ever.
 
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zckls04
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 159):
It's politics you can't say ever ever ever.

OK, I guess Sturgeon might have a mental breakdown or the Tory party might do the same and guarantee Scottish Independence. Failing that though it's not a very likely scenario.

Milliband doesn't need a coalition to be the next PM. Cameron knows it too.
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scbriml
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 158):
Sturgeon (or any other SNP leader) will not let the Tories back in. If they do the SNP will get wiped out in the next election.

The SNP does run the risk of letting their outright hatred of the Tories cloud their judgement. I had the misfortune of living in Aberdeen all throught the lead-up to the independence vote. The rabid duo (Salmond & Sturgeon - are all SNP leaders so fishy?) were on TV most nights. Ms Sturgeon doesn't seem to grasp the basic concept of how voting works in the UK - we all get one vote and get to chose just one MP. I frequently get a Government I didn't vote for, but apparently, that's not good enough for the SNP.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 160):
OK, I guess Sturgeon might have a mental breakdown or the Tory party might do the same and guarantee Scottish Independence.

Well, in the event of an independent Scotland, the Tories would likely win most England/Wales/NI elections!   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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zckls04
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 161):
Well, in the event of an independent Scotland, the Tories would likely win most England/Wales/NI elections!

Indeed- although on the basis of current polling the results would be pretty close, and most predictions have Labor completely wiped out in Scotland. So if Scotland did break away I think the elections would still be winnable by both sides.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 161):
The SNP does run the risk of letting their outright hatred of the Tories cloud their judgement.

Agree with all of the above. I find them quite odious. I think that's a view shared by most others in England, which is why Milliband wants to avoid a coalition with them at all costs.
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gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 10:15 pm

Tories out, Labour and SNP/Plaid Cymru/Democratic Unionist in  
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Tue May 05, 2015 11:00 pm

That would bankrupt and turn Britain into Kabul in no time. No thanks.
 
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garpd
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Wed May 06, 2015 8:46 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 161):
Ms Sturgeon doesn't seem to grasp the basic concept of how voting works in the UK - we all get one vote and get to chose just one MP. I frequently get a Government I didn't vote for, but apparently, that's not good enough for the SNP.

Tell me about it.

We were promised one referendum and regardless of the outcome, that would be it, ne'er a word said about it again.
Yet here we are with the SNP drumming the referendum war drums again.

All she wants to do is tear this country apart and she doesn't care how it's done.
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tommy1808
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Wed May 06, 2015 9:32 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 2):

I don't know enough about UK politics but I don't understand how Cameron can have deficit reduction as a platform when he hasn't managed that so far, despite large cuts in everything.

It is pretty hilarious that the country that developed the MONIAC computer still doesn't understand ....

Maybe they should put one of those into the lobby of every Parlament, so the elective members have a slight idea how economy works.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Kiwirob
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Wed May 06, 2015 10:17 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 166):
It is pretty hilarious that the country that developed the MONIAC computer still doesn't understand ....

Except it was developed by a New Zealander.
 
aloges
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Wed May 06, 2015 10:25 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 167):
Except it was developed by a New Zealander.

...who was studying at the LSE at the time, built the thing in London and spent most of his academic career at the LSE.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
CPH-R
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:02 pm

Well that was one hell of a bomb from the exit poll.
 
gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:08 pm

Fecking 5 more years of David Cameron looking likely, Scotland has pretty much all gone to the SNP
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:10 pm

Predicting 316 seats for the Conservatives! Very surprised at that number if it plays out close to exits.

[Edited 2015-05-07 14:13:43]
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:11 pm

Huge GRIN, Ironically not exactly a huge conservative fan but I absolutely LOATHE labour and their future bankruptcy plans under clueless ed balls.

Nothing been declared though so.. Great night ahead.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:26 pm

Yougov exits look more like the polls we have been seeing recently.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
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Dano1977
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:40 pm

Five more years of Dave is a good result!

The love child of Jimmy Krankie and Rab C Nesbit will hopefully pipe down and concentrate on her MSP roll instead of interfering with Westminster politics.

The only thing that could make me happier is if George Galloway lost his seat.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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zckls04
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 174):
The only thing that could make me happier is if George Galloway lost his seat.

I may not agree with you about "5 more years of Dave", but I could not agree with you more on this.

That's the beauty of politics. No matter our differences we can always unite in hatred against somebody, if we're prepared to look hard enough!
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Ah, Yougov did NOT do an exit poll. That prediction was from yesterday and left unchanged for today after a 're-contact survey'.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
aloges
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Thu May 07, 2015 11:31 pm

So: triumph for the Tories, disaster for the LibDems and Labour with considerable losses? Sounds like a hung parliament again. Just pray that you don't get what we have...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
BestWestern
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 12:09 am

The interesting thing is that with the shakeup of seats, and believing the exit polls, Dave has a tough time in choosing his coalition partners - looks like the Ulster unionists will be in government.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 12:20 am

Millionaire UKIP backer Aaron Banks, along with multiple others, tweets Farage has lost in Thanet South to the Tories.

And George Galloway reported to the police by Bradford Council for tweeting exit polls before end of voting thereby breaking election law.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 12:37 am

The swing away from Labour is impressive, Seems being backed by a slimey tramp like Russel Brand has backfired eh.

Imagine no Farage, Galloway or Ed Balls. I wouldnt care who wins that would be good enough for smiles lol.

[Edited 2015-05-07 17:38:26]
 
kiwiandrew

RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 4:18 am

It will be interesting to see how much longer the UK can remain 'United' . The results north and south of the border could hardly be more at odds. Even though the Scots narrowly rejected independence last year, it's hard to see a future for Scotland inside the UK. Right now the Tories must be quietly wishing that the referendum had gone the other way, with Scotland out of the equation they would have had an absolute majority at Westminster.
 
gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 4:50 am

I'd imagine there will be another independence referendum soon, again it looks like a Tory government set up to screw over Scotland.

Will be interesting to see Alex Salmond at Westminster mind you  
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CPH-R
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 5:04 am

So with Stephen Kinnock now an MP, I hope he and the missus sets up some decent firewalls at home (whereever that might end up being). Surely the first time the spouse of the political leader of one country, has been elected to the parliamentary body of another?
 
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scbriml
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 6:00 am

I've been up all night following events. Now looking as though the Tories will have an effective majority (given Sinn Fein MPs don't take up their seats). The collapse of the Lib-Dem vote is astonishing. A very poor night for Labour and a staggering night for the SNP.

All in all, a shocking night!   

But hilarious that the SNP's prime driver (getting rid of the Tories) goes nowhere despite their massive gains. It also means, if there is a Tory majority, the SNP are utterly powerless to affect policy.   

Quoting gkirk (Reply 182):
a Tory government set up to screw over Scotland.

Yes, of course, it's their plan all along.   


Hopefully, this election might prompt some move on the voting system. UKIP gained over 3 millions votes and will end up with, at most, 2 MPs. The SNP gained far fewer total votes and ends up with 50-odd MPs.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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Kiwirob
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 6:49 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 184):
Hopefully, this election might prompt some move on the voting system. UKIP gained over 3 millions votes and will end up with, at most, 2 MPs. The SNP gained far fewer total votes and ends up with 50-odd MPs.

It would appear that some form of proportional representation is necessary.
 
gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 185):

Who'd have thought there were at least 3 million racists in the UK voting UKIP?
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gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 7:10 am

David Cameron has to have 1 main objective now though, rid the UK of Katie Hopkins. He might be forgiven for all his sins if that happens
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Braybuddy
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 7:16 am

As an onlooker from the outside, I never thought Ed Milibland prime minister material. I think the accent has something to do with it.

Will be interesting to see if his cleverer older brother will return from his work in New York as head of the International Rescue Committee, where seemingly he is very highly regarded.

He lost the leadership last time round by a whisker due to Ed's machinations, so maybe his time has come at last.
 
CPH-R
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 7:20 am

And exit Ed Balls. Just Farrage's constituency to go then.
 
gkirk
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 7:21 am

Ed Balls just lost his seat to the Tories capping a horrific night for Labour
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garpd
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 7:59 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 186):
Who'd have thought there were at least 3 million racists in the UK voting UKIP?

Some consider the SNP racist. After all, many of their followers attack or verbally abuse ANYONE not supporting the SNP.
Their entire campaign feeds of the casual racism toward the English that is embedded deep in the Scottish psyche.

The fact that they now have the majority in Scotland appals me.
The SNP will drive a wedge between Scotland and the rest of the UK and cause so much tension, a split might be inevitable, with or without a referendum.
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CPH-R
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:05 am

On the topic of the SNP, interesting remark made by Boris Johnson earlier on, saying that he was all for giving Scotland the power to govern their own economical affairs, provided they then also raised the funds to pay for it themselves. IIRC Nick Robinson noted that such a proposal would result in a £10 billion deficit, which, and that was the sly bit he suggested, would perhaps give some Scots second thoughts on how much they'd like independence after all.
 
David L
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 184):
Yes, of course, it's their plan all along.   

   As someone who started working in Scotland in the 1970s, I'll take the Scotland of today over the Scotland of those dark days, without hesitation.

I don't know what the Scottish voters are playing at. We had a vote on independence and we said no. The question was clear and we had plenty of time to think about it. Now we've had a vote that isn't about independence and everyone's talking about another referendum. It's like the person who refuses to order a dessert then, when your dessert arrives, they decide they'll have some after all. I think the situation's far too volatile to consider another referendum on independence at the moment and I'm reasonably sure the SNP won't push it... at least for a while.

There's some consolation for me, though. After years of some quite venomous comments about the Tories in Scotland from a lot of my Labour-voting acquaintances, I'm looking forward to seeing them again.  
 
offloaded
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:42 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 185):

Quoting scbriml (Reply 184):
Hopefully, this election might prompt some move on the voting system. UKIP gained over 3 millions votes and will end up with, at most, 2 MPs. The SNP gained far fewer total votes and ends up with 50-odd MPs.

It would appear that some form of proportional representation is necessary.

Certainly looks that way, not that you will have the remotest hope ever of any electoral reform. The FPTP system is just too favourable to the Blues and Reds.

Quoting gkirk (Reply 186):
Who'd have thought there were at least 3 million racists in the UK voting UKIP?

Riiiight
  I'm thinking an ENGLISH independence referendum is in order.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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Aesma
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:45 am

Are there numbers (estimates) of votes for each party ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
David L
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 195):
Are there numbers (estimates) of votes for each party ?

Yes...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results

... and in Scotland...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/scotland
 
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Aesma
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 8:56 am

Thanks. So Labour gets a higher share of the vote, but less seats than in 2010. I guess LibDem presence helped Labour last time around ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
David L
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 9:05 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 197):
So Labour gets a higher share of the vote, but less seats than in 2010

But they lost a whole bunch of seats to the SNP, whose share of the vote increased by much more than Labour's.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 197):
I guess LibDem presence helped Labour last time around ?

Well, apart from the fact that the LibDems formed a coalition with the Tories...  
 
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OA260
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RE: The UK Election Thread

Fri May 08, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 190):
Ed Balls just lost his seat to the Tories capping a horrific night for Labour

Great news  

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos