Elite
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 149):

Sorry, I don't think you responded to victrola's post or comment at all. That is if only some countries would imitate the "Asian Tigers".
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting elite (Reply 150):
Sorry, I don't think you responded to victrola's post or comment at all. That is if only some countries would imitate the "Asian Tigers".


There is only one who I ignore, and it is not victrola. Most impoverished countries will not emulate the Asian Tigers, but they will continue to export their human misery.

[Edited 2015-05-19 18:12:18]
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 144):
You are upset at unions (they have health and retirement benefits as well as pay that can feed a family and receive training but don't let facts get in the way) and also want children to get a good education

  


Such evil ideals are they not? Good wages, benefits and retirement plans. I am glad there are some thinkers on here, if there were not, this would certainly be a boring site.

[Edited 2015-05-19 19:07:58]
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 146):
I think you are putting everyone who advocates for free trade in the same camp as conservatives who don't want taxes raised for anything.

Very few people here (and in general) actually want TPP to be approved.

On a completely unrelated topic, it will cost money for the United States to finally have quality education. So many right wingers keep insisting over and over again that tax cuts work. They don't. It has been proven.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BMI727
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 151):
There is only one who I ignore, and it is not victrola

It's me!

The old man has no answers, no rebuttal, and no tolerance for challenges to his jingoism and sense of entitlement.

I mean, how dare Asians try to improve their lives! How dare anyone aspire to anything greater than showing up and not getting fired!
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 1:50 am

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/politi...ry-clinton-trade-issues-iowa-trip/



More power for corporations, most certainly that is what we need. You know they are our watchdog, looking out for the people. I agree with the doubters, both Democrats and Republicans have sold us down the river on trade and jobs.
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victrola
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 153):
Very few people here (and in general) actually want TPP to be approved.

Because very few people here would be able to pass an economics 101 test.
 
727LOVER
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting windy95 (Thread starter):
illegal alines

Are they affiliated with delta alines ?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
As noted the unemployment rates are calculated to be artificially low and do not reflect what is actually happening in the economy.

I don't remember you saying that Oct 2008-June 2009. Why weren't you saying that then?


Interestingly, if you google OBAMA RECOVERY VS REAGAN RECOVERY,...you get a ton of stuff....but if you google OBAMA RECOVERY VS CLINTON RECOVERY, there's hardly anything...why is that?   


http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/05/news/economy/obama-economy/
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 143):
You can rant all you want about the injustice of it all. However there is no place in the 21st century for someone with 1950s job skills.

So, there's 50 million high tech jobs widely available for people in the U.S? Even if all these people get educated, where are all these new jobs going to come from? Sure, there's a few openings, but not nearly 50 million.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 148):
The world is leaving some people behind and they have a lot of trouble with the notion that being white and American just won't cut it anymore.

Ironic coming from someone who works in a field that is protected from competition by the U.S. government.
 
victrola
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 7:23 pm

 
victrola
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 158):
So, there's 50 million high tech jobs widely available for people in the U.S? Even if all these people get educated, where are all these new jobs going to come from? Sure, there's a few openings, but not nearly 50 million.

Educated people create new ideas and thus create new wealth which leads to new jobs.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Wed May 20, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 159):

I found this quote from the article to be very interesting...

Quote:
"Businesses across the world continue to face a crippling talent shortage," said Manpower in a new release accompanying its report.

It found the hardest jobs to fill were sales representatives and skilled trade workers such as chefs, mechanics and electricians.

None of those trades requires a four year degree. In fact sales reps and chefs can even be self taught.
 
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 1:03 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 161):
None of those trades requires a four year degree. In fact sales reps and chefs can even be self taught.

But do they pay? People who were taken for a ride by the bank and housing collapse need a solid stream of good income. Not this $10 an hour, no benefits.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Elite
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 161):
None of those trades requires a four year degree. In fact sales reps and chefs can even be self taught.

Often times a lack of talent means, literally, a lack of talented workers, and not simply someone to fill the job.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 1:49 am

Quoting victrola (Reply 160):
Educated people create new ideas and thus create new wealth which leads to new jobs.

Dream on, not enough to overcome the population explosion by a mile.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 161):
None of those trades requires a four year degree. In fact sales reps and chefs can even be self taught.

You are dog do without a four year degree according to our resident college educated union hating, minimum wage living for the uneducated experts. These maybe union type jobs, horrors, we cannot have that. Blue Collar do nothing people do not deserve good wages. After all, all union people do is show up and presto chango, they get paid. Unions must be magic to be able to do that. I say this partly in jest to show how unrealistic some on here are. I am being kind by using such simple words believe me.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 162):
But do they pay? People who were taken for a ride by the bank and housing collapse need a solid stream of good income. Not this $10 an hour, no benefits.

They do not deserve to be able to live, have families, educate their children, and retire. They are the serfs of the world, serving the educated. What is it we do not understand about that ? NOTICE, I said we.  
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
sccutler
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
You are dog do without a four year degree according to our resident college educated union hating, minimum wage living for the uneducated experts. These maybe union type jobs, horrors, we cannot have that. Blue Collar do nothing people do not deserve good wages. After all, all union people do is show up and presto chango, they get paid. Unions must be magic to be able to do that. I say this partly in jest to show how unrealistic some on here are. I am being kind by using such simple words believe me.

Heh.

My clients are all trade contractors, came up through OJT or apprenticeships (some union-affiliated, some not). For most of them, the principal exposure they've had to college is building the places.

What do I, holder of a Juris Doctorate degree from a prestigious university call these lesser-educated folks?

"Boss."

And done with pride.

Whether laying bricks, pushing dirt, bending pipe and pulling wire, hanging rock or mopping tar on the roof, these entrepeneurial risk-takers are the backbone of expansion and success in our economy.

If I could get in the way-back machine and have a do-over, I would hope to get under indenture and apprentice into the electrical trade.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
BMI727
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
You are dog do without a four year degree according to our resident college educated union hating, minimum wage living for the uneducated experts

He literally just posted examples of fields that are lacking enough qualified candidates that do not require a four year degree.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
Blue Collar do nothing people do not deserve good wages.

Where did anyone say that?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
After all, all union people do is show up and presto chango, they get paid. Unions must be magic to be able to do that.

Are union wages and raises not typically determined primarily by seniority?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 162):
But do they pay? People who were taken for a ride by the bank and housing collapse need a solid stream of good income. Not this $10 an hour, no benefits.

Sales reps can make good money and definitely livable wages even at the entry levels. Chefs it depends. I don't know any electricians or mechanics that make $10/hr. Even guys at Discount and Jiffy Lube usually make a solid amount more than that.

Quoting elite (Reply 163):
Often times a lack of talent means, literally, a lack of talented workers, and not simply someone to fill the job.

Right, and if there is a lack of talent to fill jobs that don't require degrees maybe there's a systemic cultural problem.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
After all, all union people do is show up and presto chango, they get paid. Unions must be magic to be able to do that. I say this partly in jest to show how unrealistic some on here are.

All the union jobs I am exposed to at my work are highly skilled. I definitely see the other side of it though. Guys getting caught drinking on the job and the union tries to protect them. Also some jobs should have a union more than others.
 
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 167):
I don't know any electricians or mechanics that make $10/hr. Even guys at Discount and Jiffy Lube usually make a solid amount more than that.

Enough to cover rent and food and health care and transportation?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 165):
Heh.

My clients are all trade contractors, came up through OJT or apprenticeships (some union-affiliated, some not). For most of them, the principal exposure they've had to college is building the places.

What do I, holder of a Juris Doctorate degree from a prestigious university call these lesser-educated folks?

"Boss."

And done with pride.

Whether laying bricks, pushing dirt, bending pipe and pulling wire, hanging rock or mopping tar on the roof, these entrepeneurial risk-takers are the backbone of expansion and success in our economy.

If I could get in the way-back machine and have a do-over, I would hope to get under indenture and apprentice into the electrical trade.

Well put, an honorable way to make a living. OJT, the way to really learn a trade, as millions have and will continue to. It gives one a pride in craftmanship. I worked with these tradesmen you mention. I had nothing but admiration for these people, including women. No screwing off on union construction jobs, or you go back to the hall. A realistic reply once again, not the anti-union bull so common from some on here.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 168):
Enough to cover rent and food and health care and transportation?

Electricians for sure do... Mechanics I'm not familiar enough to comment.
 
Elite
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:50 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 167):
systemic cultural problem.

It is -- a positive attitude does not require a four year degree!

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 167):
Guys getting caught drinking on the job and the union tries to protect them

Sounds like a certain Denzel Washington movie about trains  
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 167):

All the union jobs I am exposed to at my work are highly skilled. I definitely see the other side of it though. Guys getting caught drinking on the job and the union tries to protect them. Also some jobs should have a union more than others.

One cannot pick and choose who to defend, not a union function. It is sometimes hard to defend all, but you must. Do you think management does not do these things? We are all human, union and management, subject to the failings of such. I never drank seriously, but I have had a beer at lunchtime. I do not defend those who do drink on the job, union or management. Again, a well thought out reply. So refreshing.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
sccutler
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 170):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 168):
Enough to cover rent and food and health care and transportation?

Electricians for sure do... Mechanics I'm not familiar enough to comment.

Dealership mechanics (they call them, "technicians," now) make solid six-figure pay at most reasonably-sized dealers.

---

Friend of mine owns an independent auto service shop - his mechanics make around $15k/year, more if they hustle, less if they feel like doggin' it. Up to them. Good guys, know what they are doing. Never wear a tie (except on Sunday).

---

Folks, there are plenty of good-paying jobs out there for people who are still willing to work. Why a stigma has attached to hands-on work, I cannot fathom. It is nuts.

the discussion of minimum wage is such a crock. My folks could never dream of hiring a soul at wages like that.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 5:18 am

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 170):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 168):
Enough to cover rent and food and health care and transportation?

Electricians for sure do... Mechanics I'm not familiar enough to comment.

You are equating mechanics to Jiffy Lube. I had a Geo Metro about the same time this site was started. I went to a Jiffy Lube type place to get the oil changed. They were trained and paid so well with so many great benefits that they never put the dipstick back in my block! I had to wait three days for the Chevy dealer in Seattle to get a new dipstick because the oil change place said "it wasn't us..."

And that is union and needs to be defended and me paying for it???? How???

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 167):
Guys getting caught drinking on the job and the union tries to protect them.

I think (my opinion only and I will explain in a moment) the union goes to bat for *SOME* of those workers because they have no past history of being disciplined or being in trouble with drugs or alcohol.

When I was training as a supervisor, I had to deal with many drug and alcohol issues with crew members. Many of them waited until consecutive days off to drink themselves blind or get blitzed out of their minds. Even though I did not hold a union job, I get that people have a life.

Maybe a person who "drinks" (read: one time) just got the news his wife has cancer or her son was shot by a class mate.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
victrola
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 164):
Dream on, not enough to overcome the population explosion by a mile.

Another rediculous arguement by WarRI1. Where are your facts? You haven't brought up a single fact to back up this statement. Please give us hard numbers to prove your statement that job growth cannot keep up with population growth. Please show us the economic and demographic data to back up your statements.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 2:19 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 174):
Maybe a person who "drinks" (read: one time) just got the news his wife has cancer or her son was shot by a class mate.

Many union trades have the safety of themselves, the co-workers around them, and sometimes even customers (pilots). There's a reason that negotiated benefits include bereavement leave. In a situation when you have others lives in your hand there is absolutely no reason your bender should overlap into the workplace and the union shouldn't be protecting anyone that is putting others lives in jeopardy.

Quoting victrola (Reply 175):
Please give us hard numbers to prove your statement that job growth cannot keep up with population growth. Please show us the economic and demographic data to back up your statements.

Since the US is growing at barely below a replacement rate it is doubtful that one could show that growth is outpacing jobs. Ironically, it would confirm the silly premise of this thread to a slight extent as if that were the case employment % would be increasing at a similar rate to population growth.
 
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 173):
there are plenty of good-paying jobs out there for people who are still willing to work

And for people who have that education and training already. There are zero good paying jobs for people who have been sick and tired of working low wage jobs for way too long and want a good paying job. The good paying jobs come with "must have X years of proven experience."

Quoting sccutler (Reply 173):
his mechanics make around $15k/year

You realize that is about $7.25 an hour.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 176):
there is absolutely no reason your bender should overlap into the workplace

Because OSHA would be involved, I wonder how often that happens or is this another "I know a guy" situation.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
victrola
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 177):

And for people who have that education and training already. There are zero good paying jobs for people who have been sick and tired of working low wage jobs for way too long and want a good paying job. The good paying jobs come with "must have X years of proven experience."

There will continue to be zero good paying jobs for people without skills and no matter how much you complain about how injust this is it never going to change. You need to stop fighting against the laws of supply and demand. If you can't find a good paying job that is market sending you a signal that you have to improve your skills. Who in their rignt mind is going to bust their ass to get skills and an education if they don't need them for a good paying job? The answer is almost nobody.
 
StarAC17
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 159):
Meanwhile:

http://business.asiaone.com/news/com...e-global-crippling-talent-shortage

From the article

Quote:
The most common reasons employers gave for experiencing difficulty was a lack of applicants (named by 35 per cent of those surveyed) and applicants' lack of technical competence (cited by 34 per cent).

Another reason was a lack of experience, affecting 22 per cent of employers.

- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/com...lent-shortage#sthash.leXO0aFw.dpuf

Some of this I blame on companies themselves for not thinking long term or investing in developing talent with potential.

Examples being if you are not receiving enough applicants for a position are you actually marketing it effectively or hiring recruiters to find the talent. I'm in a job hunt right now and I look at the quality and clarity of their job description just as they would look at my resume and cover letter. I am not likely to apply to companies whom have poor recruiting skills or poor job postings that are unclear as to requirements and duties.

Furthermore if you are looking at young people of course they have a lack of experience and they need to obtain through work even if they have a STEM degree but I find a lot of positions regardless of the duties are not entry-level and many companies are looking to steal talent from competitors at higher levels, are not looking to train and then complain that they can't find talent.

I think if should be acceptable that companies look for people with potential and put in serious amount of time (6-12 months) to get people new to the workforce and coach them appropriately. Ensure that the people you hire can learn and develop.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 166):
Are union wages and raises not typically determined primarily by seniority?

Unions do a lot of good things but I agree the promotions and raises based on seniority is not one of them but it varies industry to industry.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 176):
Since the US is growing at barely below a replacement rate it is doubtful that one could show that growth is outpacing jobs. Ironically, it would confirm the silly premise of this thread to a slight extent as if that were the case employment % would be increasing at a similar rate to population growth.

You are accepting immigrants though and that ads to population growth.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 173):
Friend of mine owns an independent auto service shop - his mechanics make around $15k/year, more if they hustle, less if they feel like doggin' it. Up to them. Good guys, know what they are doing. Never wear a tie (except on Sunday).

15k a year is US federal minimum wage at 40 hours a week and a poverty level wage (is that a typo). For new mechanics I would put that wage at $15-18 per hour, roughly 30-35k if full time to start and more with seniority and experience.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
sccutler
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Thu May 21, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 177):
And for people who have that education and training already. There are zero good paying jobs for people who have been sick and tired of working low wage jobs for way too long and want a good paying job. The good paying jobs come with "must have X years of proven experience."

Utterly false; the principal qualifications for entry into a number of construction trades are (1) show up; (2) fog a mirror; and (3) be willing to work. The training is provided.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 177):
Quoting sccutler (Reply 173):
his mechanics make around $15k/year

You realize that is about $7.25 an hour.

Apologies - missed a zero, there. I intended to write, "$150k/year."

Clearly, copy editing will not be *my* bonanza!
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
BMI727
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 172):
One cannot pick and choose who to defend, not a union function. It is sometimes hard to defend all, but you must.

The union is actually screwing over the rest of their members. You can't say that unions are the greatest thing that ever happened for workplace safety and contend that unions are the only thing keeping workers from being poisoned by chemicals and torn apart by machinery while at the same time applauding the union for protecting the jobs guys who drink and smoke weed on their lunch hour.

No organization that defends such behavior genuinely gives a shit about safety. That's just trying to keep the gravy train going.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 181):
No organization that defends such behavior genuinely gives a shit about safety. That's just trying to keep the gravy train going.

Absolutely true. The only good unions are those that police their own membership. Anything else is just a money-grabbing institution the same as any other.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 182):
Absolutely true. The only good unions are those that police their own membership. Anything else is just a money-grabbing institution the same as any other.

I am happy to see that you realize that there are good unions, and by admission, good union members. I wish to thank you for that.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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seb146
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 180):
Apologies - missed a zero, there. I intended to write, "$150k/year."

Ah... makes better sense.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 180):
the principal qualifications for entry into a number of construction trades are (1) show up; (2) fog a mirror; and (3) be willing to work. The training is provided.

Companies like that are still slowly hiring. Some people can not do manual labor because of previous injury or because of missing limbs from being in a war zone. For the others that are told are lazy, maybe it is because they want a permanent job and not one dependent on the economy?

And some people are just lazy.

Quoting victrola (Reply 178):
There will continue to be zero good paying jobs for people without skills and no matter how much you complain about how injust this is it never going to change.

There are two topics going on here: Good paying jobs for people with work experience and people with no experience. For example, there are plenty of nursing jobs but someone who has been a pilot for 20 years would never be able to walk into an ER and start giving IVs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting victrola (Reply 175):
Another rediculous arguement by WarRI1. Where are your facts? You haven't brought up a single fact to back up this statement. Please give us hard numbers to prove your statement that job growth cannot keep up with population growth. Please show us the economic and demographic data to back up your statements.

You are the one charging that education, tech skills will save the world. How is that working for you? It is not for me. I have not seen one hard fact, nor do I read in the news, or see on the news that anything is being changed socially, politically by job training, education. The world is going to hell in a hurry, and you are preaching economics. Training will save the world, education will save the world, balony!
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 3:24 am

http://warwickonline.com/stories/Tha...class=1&town_id=1&sub_type=stories



Maybe education, tech jobs will overcome these stats that were predicted by Ross Perot in 1992. What he has said has come true, and no education, no tech jobs have overcome anything. We are being screwed over and they want more of the same. I just love the pretenders on here, I have my job, so everything is glorious. Screw the others, except that the others number in the millions. How is that all working for us with jobs, wages and benefits, not the few, the millions? I have to wonder why we even needed the ACA with things going so well for the millions of uneducated, unskilled, unwashed common folks who cannot find jobs?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Elite
Posts: 2297
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 5:42 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 183):
I am happy to see that you realize that there are good unions, and by admission, good union members. I wish to thank you for that.

The police union is one I have a lot of gripes with, not just because of their high profile cases, but because of the "brotherhood" that they promote which ends up in cops protecting cops instead of cops protecting citizens.
 
sccutler
Posts: 5828
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 1:03 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 184):

Quoting sccutler (Reply 180):
the principal qualifications for entry into a number of construction trades are (1) show up; (2) fog a mirror; and (3) be willing to work. The training is provided.

Companies like that are still slowly hiring.

If by "slowly," you mean, "...we hire, immediately, every applicant who walks through the door and can pass the drug screen..." then yes, they are still hiring "slowly."

Joking aside, there is a desperate shortage of construction labor. Full stop.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 184):
Some people can not do manual labor because of previous injury or because of missing limbs from being in a war zone.

Blind folks can't get jobs as professional drivers, either.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 184):
For the others that are told are lazy, maybe it is because they want a permanent job and not one dependent on the economy?

I don't quite get what you're saying here; every job, of every kind, is dependent on the economy. No business, no jobs.

As for "lazy," well, if you show up with a good attitude and work, you're not lazy. If you don't, most likely you are.

You'll find that the people who are not lazy are the ones most likely to get and retain the better jobs. Kinda how it works around any successful business.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 1:39 pm

Free trade only works (for common people) if everybody obeys the rules.

But I find that pro-trade economists rarely include currency manipulation, espionage, dumping etc in their models.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 173):
Friend of mine owns an independent auto service shop - his mechanics make around $15k/year, more if they hustle, less if they feel like doggin' it. Up to them. Good guys, know what they are doing. Never wear a tie (except on Sunday).

Must be a Volvo or Mercedes shop.

Those guys make their medical doctor / lawyer clients weep. They make more per hour.
 
victrola
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Fri May 22, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 185):
You are the one charging that education, tech skills will save the world. How is that working for you? It is not for me. I have not seen one hard fact, nor do I read in the news, or see on the news that anything is being changed socially, politically by job training, education. The world is going to hell in a hurry, and you are preaching economics. Training will save the world, education will save the world, balony!

Please go to the store and buy an economics 101 text book and make an attempt to read it.

The statement that nothing has ever been changed by education and job training is probablly the dumbest statement I have ever read on this website.

That's right folks, all of your education and acquired knowledge is useless. None of you are better off for having gotten an education. You would all be just as well off if you never bothered to learn anything. We heard it right here from WarRI1.  
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 13182
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Sat May 23, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting victrola (Reply 190):

I suggest you reread my words that you quoted. The words I used were "that anything is being changed socially, politically by job training, eduation" No question jobs help people survive, education helps people learn. There are as many social injustices and as much political suppression as ever in this world, maybe in even greater numbers as ever before in history.

As I said with the population explosion, the affect of econmics, education, job training is negated by the ever increasing number of the jobless, the uneducated and the unskilled is overcoming all advances , population increasing, poverty increasing, hunger increasing, political suppression increasing, wars everywhere, terrorism increasing, mass migration increasing across borders, diseases making comebacks, new diseases appearing, territorial disputes ,mineral rights disputes, pollution increasing, global warming increasing. Water shortages increasing, draughts. Should I go on?

More and more political corruption, financial corruption, government's not defending the citizens against exploitation, by corporations, banks. Our governmnt and congress controlled by PACs. Money corrupting the election process. Every social support enacted by our country for the average person under assault by the opposition party. Should I go on? The ACA for the uninsured attacked and threatened for years. Taxes written for the corporations, and the wealthy, not the common man. Wealth being amassed by the already wealthy, talk about social injustice.

Now with all the horrible conditions afoot in this world, I ask what has improved for the good by all this education, job training. I doubt that we are even maintaing, never mind improving this Utopia we have according to you. One does not need an economics book, one needs to pray for a miracle. One needs to pray for ones children, and grandchildren who will be left to inherit this disaster that those who worship the God of Economics are leaving them. One does not need an economics book, one needs , water, food, heat, cloths, that are going to become a scarce commodity in the future. Need I go on?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Sat May 23, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 181):
The union is actually screwing over the rest of their members. You can't say that unions are the greatest thing that ever happened for workplace safety and contend that unions are the only thing keeping workers from being poisoned by chemicals and torn apart by machinery while at the same time applauding the union for protecting the jobs guys who drink and smoke weed on their lunch hour.

Unions aren't perfect organizations but they are the things that keep a lot of workers rights intact and simply getting rid of them will eventually lead to the working conditions that caused them to be created in the first place.

It is already happening and labour laws and workers rights will eventually be destroyed again if we let unions go and that has started to happen in many fields. Many people do not get paid sick days, vacation and maternity leave and none of it is mandated in US labour laws. Some workers get it because of their value but to ask a low skilled worker to risk their lives or threaten to fire them because they are sick is just plain wrong.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 189):
Free trade only works (for common people) if everybody obeys the rules.

The US hardly obeys NAFTA and other treaties when they violate it and the WTO rules in favour of Canada or Mexico. Examples being the Softwood Lumber Dispute. If they break the rules and it doesn't suit the US then too bad for everyone else.

Examples being.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%...ted_States_softwood_lumber_dispute

Also very recently the US lost the right to label country of origin laws for meat products for Canada and Mexico. I actually agree with the US opinion but it did violate NAFTA.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/wto-rejects-u-s-meat-labels-1431962316

An example of it going the other way where the US sued under the investor protection clauses in these Free Trade Agreements.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2012...r_ontario_offshore_moratorium.html

The United States is that powerful that it can get away with this but the bad thing about these trade deals is that the corporate interests that lobby for a lot of the stuff in these agreements feel that they are entitled to profits. No business is entitled to make money you have to earn that money and sometimes there are constraints you have to live by.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 13182
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Sat May 23, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 192):
Unions aren't perfect organizations but they are the things that keep a lot of workers rights intact and simply getting rid of them will eventually lead to the working conditions that caused them to be created in the first place.

It is already happening and labour laws and workers rights will eventually be destroyed again if we let unions go and that has started to happen in many fields. Many people do not get paid sick days, vacation and maternity leave and none of it is mandated in US labour laws. Some workers get it because of their value but to ask a low skilled worker to risk their lives or threaten to fire them because they are sick is just plain wrong.

I wish to applaud your so accurate and realistic reply to a typical anti-union rant, that denies reality and relies on nothing to back up the words. I must say that in the years I have been on here, that is one of the best replies that is based on labor history and not on typical no thought hatred so common on here. These folks do not have a clue how we got here, and how easy it is to lose what was gained by hard work, sacrifice and, death. Absolutely nothing was given, nothing was won without fighting for every gain for the workers. As the old saying goes " Those who know not history are doomed to repeat it." As you said, it is happening now. Well said Sir.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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seb146
Posts: 20905
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: R.I.P. The Obama Recovery

Sat May 23, 2015 5:27 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 188):
I don't quite get what you're saying here; every job, of every kind, is dependent on the economy. No business, no jobs.

Manual labor jobs (like construction) are usually the first to get cut and usually the first to go on a hiring binge. Other jobs, like retail and banking follow slowly.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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