garnetpalmetto
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North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Wed May 13, 2015 5:43 pm

It seems Kim Jong-Un's hermit kingdom has developed a rather nasty way to deal with those who fall asleep at the switch, literally, as Defense Minister Hyon Yong Chol was on the receiving end of a firing squad constituted of ZPU-4 antiaircraft artillery as punishment for falling asleep during at an event that Kim was present at.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...hkorea-purge-idUSKBN0NY01J20150513

If there was any doubt the DPRK is bringing "nutty" to new heights, it seems that execution via AAA is becoming a thing with the regime...

http://www.hrnkinsider.org/2015/04/u...-activity-at-kanggon-military.html

The satellite image appears to have been taken moments before an execution by ZPU-4 anti-aircraft machine guns. Busing in senior officers or VIPs to observe a ZPU-4 dry-fire training exercise at a small arms range amidst North Korea’s fuel shortages would make no sense. If the ZPU-4s were brought to the range solely to be sighted in, conducting this exercise at a 100 meter small arms firing range would be impractical. A live-fire exercise would be even more nonsensical. Rounds fired by a ZPU-4 have a range of 8,000 m and can reach a maximum altitude of 5,000 m. Positioning a battery of six ZPU-4s to fire horizontally at targets situated only 30 m downrange could have no conceivable utility from a military viewpoint. The most plausible explanation of the scene captured in the October 7th satellite image is a gruesome public execution. Anyone who has witnessed the damage one single U.S. .50 caliber round does to the human body will shudder just trying to imagine a battery of 24 heavy machine guns being fired at human beings. Bodies would be nearly pulverized. The gut-wrenching viciousness of such an act would make “cruel and unusual punishment” sound like a gross understatement.

Given reports of past executions this is tragic, but unfortunately plausible in the twisted world of Kim Jong-un’s North Korea. In December 2013, following the execution of the leader’s uncle Jang Song-thaek, Choe Sang-Hun and David Sanger reported for The New York Times that Jang Song-thaek’s top two lieutenants had been executed using anti-aircraft machine guns.[1] In the summer of 2013, South Korean intelligence officials and news media reported that purged North Korean artists had been executed using the same gruesome method.




Yikes.

[Edited 2015-05-13 10:50:41]
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DeltaMD90
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Wed May 13, 2015 10:17 pm

Honestly, it's a good way to go. Rather that than spend my life in a North Korean prison or deal with what another draconian entity like ISIS would do...
 
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scbriml
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Wed May 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Well, there wouldn't be much left to have to clear up afterwards!
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Pyrex
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 1:54 am

I have taken some flak in the past for falling asleep at work, but this is ridiculous...
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WarRI1
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 2:29 am

Live by the sword, die by flak. Not quite as romantic as dying by the sword, but the same result.

[Edited 2015-05-13 19:35:32]
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DocLightning
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Honestly, it's a good way to go. Rather that than spend my life in a North Korean prison or deal with what another draconian entity like ISIS would do...

Seriously, by the time the impulse got down his optic nerve to his visual cortex to tell him that the guns were firing, there would be no visual cortex left to inform. He certainly would never have heard a thing, since the sound wave would have gotten to him after there was no more "him." He would go from conscious and waiting for it to gone without ever having known the moment it happened.

It might be gruesome and unusual (well, not by DPRK standards, evidently), but hardly cruel. In fact, if I have to go, do it with antiaircraft fire at close range. Just...please don't miss.
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scbriml
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 10:32 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3):
I have taken some flak in the past for falling asleep at work, but this is ridiculous...

Well played, sir!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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ltbewr
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 10:42 am

I bet his extended family has been rounded up and put into one of their notorious death camps.
This is beyond cruelty, assuming it actually happened. Don't forget the South Korean media has a bad reputation for accepting rumors from their brother country to the North, so who knows if this actually happened in this way, he could have just got the usual firing squad. it could very well be propaganda to many in the South to make the young 'Dear Leader' look in the worse possible way.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 10:55 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Thread starter):
The gut-wrenching viciousness of such an act would make “cruel and unusual punishment” sound like a gross understatement.

On the contrary, by the standards of North Korea this is a humane form of execution, far preferable to being made to lay down on front of a tank as an example.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):

I bet his extended family has been rounded up and put into one of their notorious death camps.
This is beyond cruelty, assuming it actually happened. Don't forget the South Korean media has a bad reputation for accepting rumors from their brother country to the North, so who knows if this actually happened in this way, he could have just got the usual firing squad. it could very well be propaganda to many in the South to make the young 'Dear Leader' look in the worse possible way.

Given that some of the very best business ideas have stemmed from discussions on A.net's Non-Av board (I mean who can forget Superfly's Lube-a-Boob, for instance?), it seems like we have, based on the advice of a medical professional, a business plan for AAA assisted suicides. Given the proliferation of ex-Soviet hardware, we could even offer clients their choice of ZPU-4, ZU-23-2, ZSU-23-4, or ZSU-57-2. Talk about going out with a bang, and not a whimper!

Gallows (or firing range, as it were) humor aside, reading this reminds me of the method of execution the Brits used during the Sepoy Mutiny of blowing from a gun, where the condemned was tied to the muzzle of a cannon and the cannon then fired. Even though it may not be as tortuous as some methods of execution (suspension/short drop hanging, for instance), it just seems chilling to stare down a 14.5mm gun in your final moments.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):

I bet his extended family has been rounded up and put into one of their notorious death camps.
This is beyond cruelty, assuming it actually happened. Don't forget the South Korean media has a bad reputation for accepting rumors from their brother country to the North, so who knows if this actually happened in this way, he could have just got the usual firing squad. it could very well be propaganda to many in the South to make the young 'Dear Leader' look in the worse possible way.

It could be, but given the satellite imagery and the reasoning out provided, I think it tracks. Plus, unlike the "execution by dogs" that was being bandied about awhile back with regards to Kim's uncle, it seems this one has quite a bit of purchase with multiple news sources, including Reuters.
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neutrino
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 1:28 pm

So what next? Strap a poor out-of-favor General to a test nuclear device and set it off? I won't put it past those warped minds who thought of execution by AA guns. Really way overkill!
That being said, the condemned man at the point of death won't discern the difference between his life being terminated by a single rifle/handgun bullet or a Gatling gun volley or a nuclear bomb. For me, if it comes to the choice (all realms between heaven and hell forbid) of being slowly tortured to the last of my breath or a swift end by any sort of munition, I would gladly go for the latter.
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allrite
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 1:38 pm

You need an anti aircraft gun to take out high flyers. Actually, the very top require missiles.
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victrola
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 1:41 pm

He has to be pissing some people off. I think a coup is a possibility.
 
desertjets
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 4:51 pm

I assume he had a closed casket funeral then.

This sort of reminds me of Goodfellas where the bosses beat Joe Pesci's character to death and make sure to really beat his face to a pulp so he could not have an open casket funeral. A huge slight at his family and a signal to others not to mess up unless they want to face the same fate.

In terms of what the Defense Minister felt was likely so damn quick in how it happened that it didn't matter. But this is so brutal otherwise in the message that it sends.
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falstaff
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
On the contrary, by the standards of North Korea this is a humane form of execution, far preferable to being made to lay down on front of a tank as an example

If I was going to have to be shot to death I would choose as big of gun as possible.

I think being blown apart by an antiaircraft gun far more humane than any other form of execution because you wouldn't feel a thing.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 9):
I mean who can forget Superfly's Lube-a-Boob, for instance?),

We should go over that again.
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scbriml
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 13):
I assume he had a closed casket funeral then.

After being executed with multiple ZPU-4s, I expect a shoebox would be big enough.
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DocLightning
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 5:49 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 9):
it seems like we have, based on the advice of a medical professional, a business plan for AAA assisted suicides.

What did you just call me?  
Quoting victrola (Reply 12):
He has to be pissing some people off. I think a coup is a possibility.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too.
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falstaff
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 15):
After being executed with multiple ZPU-4s, I expect a shoebox would be big enough.

I'm sure they picked him up with a shovel.
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victrola
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Thu May 14, 2015 6:14 pm

Sooner or later someone is going to say "We are all probably going to get killed for doing something to piss him off so we might as well try and kill him".
 
DDR
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Sun May 17, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 18):

I think you may have a very valid point. This guy is way over the top compared to his father and grand-father. Hopefully the top level people will realize that they have to get rid of this psycho. No one is safe, not even his own wife. He has already killed relatives.

I'm sure that if there were a coup, that the country would remain communist, but hopefully the new leadership would be more stable and humanitarian.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Sun May 17, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 18):
Sooner or later someone is going to say "We are all probably going to get killed for doing something to piss him off so we might as well try and kill him".

Kill him? That's assuming he is the one running things and even if he is, it's not a bunch of other people in the background as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if good ol Kim is just a puppet.
 
Ken777
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Sun May 17, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
It might be gruesome and unusual (well, not by DPRK standards, evidently), but hardly cruel. In fact, if I have to go, do it with antiaircraft fire at close range. Just...please don't miss.

Might be an option of the Boston Bomber if the drug companies refuse to let the government use their drugs.   
 
Rara
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Sun May 17, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 18):
Sooner or later someone is going to say "We are all probably going to get killed for doing something to piss him off so we might as well try and kill him".

It's this family extermination thing that keeps it from happening. Basically you yourself have it easy, because you're killed (though potentially in a gruesome way), but your entire extended family is sentenced to the gulag for generations to come. And that in a society where family is of paramount importance. That''s why hardly anyone stands up to the regime.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Sun May 17, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 22):
It's this family extermination thing that keeps it from happening. Basically you yourself have it easy, because you're killed (though potentially in a gruesome way), but your entire extended family is sentenced to the gulag for generations to come. And that in a society where family is of paramount importance. That''s why hardly anyone stands up to the regime.

Couldn't the major powers (US,Russia, China) and South Korea just come together and knock the guy off? I'm sure China is tired of his crap by now and Russia, even though Putin is in charge, probably wouldn't want to be associated with him either.
 
rwessel
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Mon May 18, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 23):
Couldn't the major powers (US,Russia, China) and South Korea just come together and knock the guy off? I'm sure China is tired of his crap by now and Russia, even though Putin is in charge, probably wouldn't want to be associated with him either.

Doubtless China finds Kim Jung Un a royal PITA. OTOH, China doesn't want to deal the millions of refugees the collapse of NK would cause, nor a major (civil, or otherwise) war right on their border, nor do they want a major US ally right on their border, which is what reunification would bring. So they prop up the regime, the other alternatives being worse from their perspective. The fact that he pisses off the US is a bonus.
 
Rara
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RE: North Korean Defense Minister Gruesomely Purged

Mon May 18, 2015 10:38 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 23):
Couldn't the major powers (US,Russia, China) and South Korea just come together and knock the guy off? I'm sure China is tired of his crap by now and Russia, even though Putin is in charge, probably wouldn't want to be associated with him either.

The guy himself is just a random dude... the real power is with the Kim clan and the top echelon of the country. The country is divided in some 20% who are actually quite well off, some 60% who are dirt poor and controlled by propaganda and fear, and some 20% who are totally subjugated, forced to do manual labour and live in constant threat of internment camps and political re-education. In principle, you are born into these groups, but if you do fall out with the regime, you and your entire family can move into the lowest 20% group at any time. If you successfully flee the country, chances are your entire family will pay for your crime, again for generations to come.

This system has been in operation for many decades. In order to end it, you would have to completely dismantle it. The top 20% would have to be brought to court for human rights violations, probably in its entirety (because those are the people who are responsible for the atrocities and for running the labour camps). You would have to recruit new elites from the middle 60%, who are badly educated and aren't used to taking responsibility for themselves (or anyone else, for that matter). And you would have to liberate and re-integrate into society the bottom 20%, administer post-traumatic treatment, give them basic education and figure out how they can alongside their former oppressors without becoming violent.

It's a monumental task, and it borders on the impossible. In the very least, it would mean the end of South Korea as a successful first-world nation. Think German reunification, 50 times worse. That's why no-one will ever attempt it, it's too costly and much too dangerous.

Just taking out Kim Jong Un won't do anything, they'll simply replace him with another Kim.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.

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