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luckyone
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Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 7:23 pm

http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-ha...ggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/a...ncil-amid-molestation-allegations/

It looks like they may have finally met their match...their own image. I first read the headlines a day or so ago about the allegations without any details, and my initial thought was a 14 year-old boy walks into a girl's room, and his cuckoo parents call the police because that's how insane they are. It looks like it was much more sinister than that according to the reports above. I have disagreed with the Duggar politics for quite some time, but I still think they have a right to them, and continued to watch the show, in part because of the train wreck voyeuristic aspect of it.

No more. Aside from the fact that I think the Duggars bought into their hype more than anyone else (not hard to process, given how deluded they are), I can't help but feel that the way they brought up their children may have contributed to their son's behavior. Now, plenty of boys are deprived from sexual expression, and they don't go molesting their sisters. But if the boy had perhaps been allowed to be a pubescent young boy, he may not have gone diddling in his sisters' bedroom. What's worse is the fact that the parents didn't seem to do much to protect their children from it. What's worse, it's possible that they may have placed blame on their daughters for it. They shielded the kid from prosecution, and it looks like they're trying to get the report destroyed.

I rarely say this, but I have watched a television for THE LAST time.
 
nonrevman
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 7:35 pm

Suddenly, the full frontal hug and holding hands does not look so bad. Similar to Bill Cosby, I hate to hear stuff like this. What disgusts me the most is that the dad knew what happened and swept it under the rug. I feel bad for the sisters, because now the whole world knows they were molested. Given the time frame, presumably the two that are now married were involved. I feel bad for them and their husbands.
 
luckyone
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting nonrevman (Reply 1):

According to one timeline at the time this was happening there were five girls in the house. Yes, it's horrible that the world now has another reason (like we needed another) to shake our heads and say "bless their hearts."
 
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johnboy
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 8:27 pm

Well,they were homeschooled so they can't blame it on those nasty secular influences.

Maybe they shouldn't have read the bible so much -- it's positively pornographic!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 8:31 pm

Thank heavens Jesus (and Mike Huckabee!) forgives child molesters at the drop of a hat. #praiseHim #blessed

Quoting johnboy (Reply 3):
Maybe they shouldn't have read the bible so much -- it's positively pornographic!

  
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Thank heavens Jesus (and Mike Huckabee!) forgives child molesters at the drop of a hat. #praiseHim #blessed

Child molestation - tough break that you got caught, I forgive you. Gay - you're an abomination causing irreparable harm to the Earth. Why in the living hell does anyone take Mike Huckabee seriously?

But in all seriousness, Josh Duggar is another fine example of the great work that the Family Research Council does. Can we put them on the terrorist watch list?

[Edited 2015-05-22 13:53:34]
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 9:31 pm

I can't even tell you how happy these revelations make me. No, not the molestation part. That's horrible, of course.

But to have a family who accuses innocent LGBT Americans (many of whom were abused and abandoned by their conservative Christian families) of being sexual predators and child molesters be revealed as sheltering and supporting a child molester, and then HIDING HIM and not going to the legal authorities and going for "Christian Counseling" with...SOMEONE WHO WAS LATER CONVICTED ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CHARGES...

Man, that feels good. Talk about "what goes around comes around." This is even better than finding a homophobe's grindr profile.

But more importantly, their hateful and harmful vitriol is now silenced. They lost their TV show.

But wait! There's more! Mike Huckabee is now in on the game! Yes, he has wholeheartedly thrown his support behind the Duggars and has...wait for it...blamed the Liberal Media for their "bloodthirsty" reporting on this story. I've got five dollars that say the gays will take the blame within 72 hours. Anyone wanna bet against me? (*crickets*) Didn't think so.

There is a great moral corruption in this country. It is loud, it is proud, and it waves a flag and carries a bible. And...evidently, it leads to child molestation.



Oh...and then there's this: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/a-lo...cture-taken-with-a-child-molester/

Quote:
A lot of Republicans who want to be president got their picture taken with a child molester

Right at the top: Rand Paul. Gotta vet your photo partners better, homie.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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bgm
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):

Couldn't put it better myself, Doc. The problem is that the higher you put yourself on the moral pedestal, the harder you fall.

Karma, you've done yourself proud today.
If you hate wearing a mask, you’re really going to hate using a ventilator.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 7):
Karma, you've done yourself proud today.

To quote Alicia Keys:

Quote:
What goes around comes around,
What goes up must come down.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 11:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But to have a family who accuses innocent LGBT Americans (many of whom were abused and abandoned by their conservative Christian families) of being sexual predators and child molesters be revealed as sheltering and supporting a child molester, and then HIDING HIM and not going to the legal authorities and going for "Christian Counseling" with...SOMEONE WHO WAS LATER CONVICTED ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CHARGES...

Well that's not completely fair, it *is* their 'sincerely held religious belief' to be nasty to LGBT folk and warmly embrace child molesters  Forgiveness is easy when you're the arbiter and the guilty party.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Fri May 22, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Well that's not completely fair, it *is* their 'sincerely held religious belief' to be nasty to LGBT folk and warmly embrace child molesters  Forgiveness is easy when you're the arbiter and the guilty party.

And I just want to make it clear, that's what I'm so gleeful about. They've talked a lot about mistakes. There were NO mistakes made here.

*Nobody chooses to have a child who is a child molester any more than...I dunno, what's a fair comparison... oh, yes, nobody chooses to have a child who is a child molester any more than someone chooses to be gay. See, that's not a mistake. That's not their fault. And I honestly am not sure that he himself is at fault for being so attracted. Pedophilia is a huge moral conundrum to me since it's not OK, but I don't believe that anyone chooses to be a pedophile.

*The bit where they sent him to an unlicensed "counseling" center that was basically making him help build some dude's house instead of sending him to an actual licensed treatment facility? That was on purpose.

*The bit where they didn't report this to the authorities for a year until forced to do so by Oprah's discovery of it? That was on purpose.

*The bit where, instead of learning some humility and realizing that all families are sometimes dealt problems they doubled down on their arrogance and loudly proclaimed their mere faith as some sort of healing force? That was on purpose.

*The bit where they accused the LGBT community of harboring pedophiles and endangering children when they had willfully done the same? That was on purpose.

*The bit where they took that same son and taught him to loudly accuse others of being child molesters and a danger to children instead of teaching him to humbly consider his own failings before denouncing others'? That was very much on purpose.

*His failure to recognize that what he was saying about people like me was indefensible? That was very much his fault.

I'm angry at them for these reasons, not because they didn't know they had a pedophile under their roof, but because of what they did and didn't do about it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
910A
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 12:17 am

Counseling from a church doesn't qualify as treatment.

Two points; how does a used car salesman with no education or life experiences become an executive director of anything in Washington D.C.

Once a predator always a predator. A high number of these people, learn this behavior after being a victim themselves. Since they live in a closed society, the "teacher" must have been a family or church leader.

I would suggest his wife keeps her daughter away from him, but I suppose should he act out against her, or the boys they would say it was "Gods will".
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting 910A (Reply 11):
wo points; how does a used car salesman with no education or life experiences become an executive director of anything in Washington D.C.
Quoting 910A (Reply 11):
Once a predator always a predator. A high number of these people, learn this behavior after being a victim themselves. Since they live in a closed society, the "teacher" must have been a family or church leader.

I don't believe it's learned. I believe it's inborn. Maybe there are two variants, one learned and one inborn. If it's learned, then it's possible to unlearn.

I believe that true pedophilia is an inborn orientation, just like straight or gay. The difference is, of course, that sex between consenting sexually mature adults or older adolescents of any gender in any number does not harm a victim. Pedophilia does.

On the other hand, there are self-identified pedophiles who have never touched a child because --even as horny teenagers-- they knew it was wrong. I feel sorry for those people. That has to suck. AND...if homosexuality can't be cured then I doubt pedophilia can, either. Some have chosen libido-suppressing drugs. This is where the moral conundrum comes in. You can't just let them molest children, but they have a powerful urge to. And you can't just round up anyone who admits to having these urges and shoot them in the back of the head because then nobody with these urges will admit it. Gaaah!!! So vexing!

It's much easier to just think of them as monsters. But then I read stories like this and they break my heard. This 19yo knows he's a pedophile. He horrifies himself. I really can't imagine a worse thing to happen to someone than to discover that they have a monster inside just aching to get out. http://www.mamamia.com.au/social/19-year-old-pedophile/

And that's what this comes down to. I am not a pedophile and, as a pediatrician who has treated an 18mo baby who was raped by a grown man (with a large penis) I think my views don't need any clarification on the issue of harm to children. But I am willing to admit compassion for people who have these urges. I don't blame them for the urges but for the actions. I hope that we can figure out a way to help them.

The Duggars, on the other hand, choose a path of condemnation of others at all times and see themselves as superior because of their faith. Down that road lies danger.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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WarRI1
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 12:45 am

Hypocrisy is bad enough in this world, but religious hypocrisy is the worst. Imagine any religious figure, and I mean any trying to justify forgiving a child molester. I do not care if it is Mike Huckabee, or a Catholic Bishop, or a Morman elder, or any other religious person, these people are sick. They need treatment, and jail. To abuse a child is unforgivable to me, sexually, or physically.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:14 am

Many who molest or sexually abuse children often were abused themselves. That is a freighting possibility here. Then it is compounded by hiding the fact, making sure the molested should never accuse their molester as 'a sin' and could ruin the family and their $$$'s. Of course, the girls he is alleged to have molested nor the son never got the proper secular help they needed. But lets fact it too, many if not most would not turn their son over in such a situation to the state authorities. Part of this started years ago when the Duggers were to be on the Oprah show and someone tipped them off of these allegations. Apparently there was a long delayed police investigation, no charges and the records have recently been destroyed.

I just wish this would be another lesson in why we don't need any more of these 'reality' shows, they are fake, can take too many bad turns, bring out the worst of humans. Now if we can get the advertisers to say no to them despite how many watch them, maybe it will end them.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):

Many who molest or sexually abuse children often were abused themselves.

It's true, which makes me wonder if there is a familial form and a sporadic form.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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luckyone
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
Apparently there was a long delayed police investigation, no charges and the records have recently been destroyed.

While that is horrible, at the same time from the victims' standpoint I can understand that. Most likely it was one of the Duggar sisters using their family's political connections to get this thing destroyed. Unfortunately for them a copy already exists, so while its in redacted form, the damage is done.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
Then it is compounded by hiding the fact, making sure the molested should never accuse their molester as 'a sin' and could ruin the family and their $$$'s

That is what bugs me more than a confused, repressed kid doing something still terrible. That, then the subsequent political activity of this family results in an astounding hypocrisy.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But more importantly, their hateful and harmful vitriol is now silenced. They lost their TV show.

Which is the only good to come out of the horror that these people children (are we sure it's "just" the girls?) experienced.

Not to say that one is equivalent to or justifies the other, at all.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 4:52 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 17):
Which is the only good to come out of the horror that these people children (are we sure it's "just" the girls?) experienced.

I think it was just girls. Josh Duggar is heterosexual...ish. If it were little boys it would have been unforgiveable. But as long as it's girls...meh.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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seb146
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
I think it was just girls. Josh Duggar is heterosexual...ish. If it were little boys it would have been unforgiveable. But as long as it's girls...meh.

I was not going to comment on this thread because they are just another group of people out for tons of money with no experience or anything to really contribute to society. See: Kardashians.

Then, this came up.

People who abhor and have utter disdain for homosexuals are the first to get in line for girl-on-girl porn because that is not wrong. If it is a man molesting boys, hang them from the highest tree but if it is a man molesting girls, it is just experimentation, no harm, no foul. And, when the hypocrisy is pointed out to them, they lose their ever loving minds.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 5:18 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
People who abhor and have utter disdain for homosexuals are the first to get in line for girl-on-girl porn because that is not wrong. If it is a man molesting boys, hang them from the highest tree but if it is a man molesting girls, it is just experimentation, no harm, no foul. And, when the hypocrisy is pointed out to them, they lose their ever loving minds.

Are you suggesting that homophobia is rooted in misogyny?

Because you're right.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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seb146
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Are you suggesting that homophobia is rooted in misogyny?

Because you're right.

Even with all this proof that women are just as good as men, some men still have the idea that women are the weaker sex.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 7:25 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
I just wish this would be another lesson in why we don't need any more of these 'reality' shows, they are fake, can take too many bad turns, bring out the worst of humans. Now if we can get the advertisers to say no to them despite how many watch them, maybe it will end them.

Pretty much sums this up. I'm a Christian but I couldn't have told you the first thing about the Duggar's. I keep hearing their name mentioned but don't really know who they are. I have zero interest in the trainwrecks that come out of these stupid reality shows - it's crazy.

I'm also - once again - fortunate to not really ever hear homosexuality discussed in my church, other than to be given the belt for making anyone regardless of their sins feel unwelcome or unloved. Our transitional pastor refers to all of us as "notorious sinners", no different than anyone else. Sin is sin. At the end of the day, we are all human and we all have sinful tendancies. As Doc said before, you feel bad for anyone struggling with something like pedophilia but you can't just excuse their acting on it. There needs to be consequences, even though there can still be forgiveness. At least, that's my take on it.

I'll leave it at that though. As a Christian it can feel pretty unwelcoming in these forums. I just think it's pretty clear that these national figures - politicians, priests, reality stars - are often doing us more harm than good because they can get caught up in that power and fame and say and do some extremely stupid if not destructive things. Better to never turn that stupid TV on.

-Dave
-Dave


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Kiwirob
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
If it were little boys it would have been unforgiveable.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Are you suggesting that homophobia is rooted in misogyny?
Because you're right.

  

It's often said that male homophobia is often just the expression of fear that a gay male may regard and treat "you" the same way that you think of/treat women.

I have to believe that there's truth to that.

Oh, and then there's the other aspect:
"A homophobe is a man who, deep down, is TERRIFIED that dick might be delicious."

I think we've seen more than enough evidence to that effect.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Max Q
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I can't even tell you how happy these revelations make me. No, not the molestation part. That's horrible, of course.

But to have a family who accuses innocent LGBT Americans (many of whom were abused and abandoned by their conservative Christian families) of being sexual predators and child molesters be revealed as sheltering and supporting a child molester, and then HIDING HIM and not going to the legal authorities and going for "Christian Counseling" with...SOMEONE WHO WAS LATER CONVICTED ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CHARGES...

Man, that feels good. Talk about "what goes around comes around." This is even better than finding a homophobe's grindr profile.

But more importantly, their hateful and harmful vitriol is now silenced. They lost their TV show.

But wait! There's more! Mike Huckabee is now in on the game! Yes, he has wholeheartedly thrown his support behind the Duggars and has...wait for it...blamed the Liberal Media for their "bloodthirsty" reporting on this story. I've got five dollars that say the gays will take the blame within 72 hours. Anyone wanna bet against me? (*crickets*) Didn't think so.

There is a great moral corruption in this country. It is loud, it is proud, and it waves a flag and carries a bible. And...evidently, it leads to child molestation.

Very well said Doc.
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GGg
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 8:57 am

i appreciate your comments Doc. I post on a board where i have the same arguments over and over that being gay is not a choice. They think its a choice. I hope you don't mind but i took some of your verbiage and pasted it to the letter trying to explain how being gay is inborn and not a choice.

funny thing, not one person responded. some boards have fact resistant humans. They decided to argue instead about it being rape vs being molestation. They actually asked do you think he can be forgiven? They are ready to forgive and move on. Perhaps if this had been boys that had molested, they would of been more outraged and less willing to forgive.

of course with Bill O'Reilly hitting his wife, they told me they were just rumors that he's denied. i getting pretty sick of the hypocrisy of the sanctimonious right.
 
jetwet1
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
On the other hand, there are self-identified pedophiles who have never touched a child because --even as horny teenagers-- they knew it was wrong. I feel sorry for those people. That has to suck.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
Many who molest or sexually abuse children often were abused themselves.

A friends former step son recently killed himself, he was 19 years old, he went to his bedroom at his grandparents home and put a gun to his head. In his diary he explained that he did it because of the urges he had, how his father had molested him as a child. My friend had left the father after she found out he was molesting the children, though the son was not hers she had raised him for close to 10 years.

At the funeral the father was doing a great job of being a grieving father, my friend read from his diary and explained how the man had also molested their daughter. This of course silenced the people present.


Honestly, the kid has to be on of the bravest people I have ever known.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
The bit where they didn't report this to the authorities for a year until forced to do so by Oprah's discovery of it? That was on purpose.

Stay with me here, I can actually understand that line of thinking, i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I can understand why the parents did it, protecting the family and probably more importantly to them, the $$$$$ coming in.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And that's what this comes down to. I am not a pedophile and, as a pediatrician who has treated an 18mo baby who was raped by a grown man (with a large penis) I think my views don't need any clarification on the issue of harm to children.

I cannot even begin to understand the hows and why......Or how you deal with that on a personal level.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 10:09 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):

Exactly.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
But as long as it's girls...meh.

Exactly.


Belief (or should I say religion?) serves as the universal tool to justify one's behaviour. I have fondled a little girl? Oh, it was my weakness! I have not turned to God to gain strength against my sinful affections! I've been fondled as a little girl? I must have sinned, for God is always just and as a shepherd protects his sheep...

I thank God for giving me the strength to take full underlined>responsibility for what I did and what I do, but I still fail in doing so.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 11:22 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 28):
Stay with me here, I can actually understand that line of thinking, i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I can understand why the parents did it, protecting the family and probably more importantly to them, the $$$$$ coming in.


Oprah was in 2006 Their TLC show wasn't until 2008. There was no money rolling in yet. It's interesting that Oprah took the time to investigate for a half hour show but TLC who offered them a reality T.V. showed didn't

Regardless nobody has mentioned the oldest daughter Jana who at 25. who lives at home as a indentured slave babysitting for her mother. Now that the plug has been pulled on the show. I hope she makes her escape.
 
luckyone
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 29):


Oprah was in 2006 Their TLC show wasn't until 2008. There was no money rolling in yet. It's interesting that Oprah took the time to investigate for a half hour show but TLC who offered them a reality T.V. showed didn't
TLC/Discovery Health was airing specials starting in 2005, and aired three or four in 2006. One of which involved a very large sum of money (something to the tune of $200,000) to finish their monstrosity of a house. But yes, TLC should've stayed on top of this...for once I appreciate Oprah.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
I'll leave it at that though. As a Christian it can feel pretty unwelcoming in these forums.

Below you addressed why. Christians aren't doing themselves any favors by rallying around people who say one thing, and then act entitled and do another. Sadly your church is an anomaly, especially in the political realm of Christianity, which is what I personally find so distasteful.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
just think it's pretty clear that these national figures - politicians, priests, reality stars - are often doing us more harm than good because they can get caught up in that power and fame and say and do some extremely stupid if not destructive things. Better to never turn that stupid TV on.

-Dave


[Edited 2015-05-23 05:22:21]
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):

Are you implying they knew about this? Senseless post... Homie...

As a Christain I'm actually appalled at people like the Duggars. They're the kind of people who need to sit back down in the pew and shut up. The thing is Doc, the senseless rants by a vocal minority on this forum about Christianity and other faiths are no different than the senseless rants by a vocal minority like the Duggars. Dave has an absolute point. Most are offended by what someone like the Duggars say, but they're really no different than the plethora of religious bigots found in this forum that make most people cringe when they write some of their nonsense.

And no Luckyone. His church is not an anomaly.

[Edited 2015-05-23 07:22:41]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 27):
I cannot even begin to understand the hows and why......Or how you deal with that on a personal level.

OK, well, something you have to realize about being the Senior Pediatric Resident in a hospital at 11 PM. 1) Other than the attending in the ER (who might only have one more year of clinical experience than I do), I am the most senior and experienced pediatrician in the hospital and I am in final charge of all medical decisions. So there is an enormous sense of responsibility, probably something like how the pilot of an airliner feels. 2) You don't get a choice. The patients keep coming. You just don't get a choice.

So I admitted her, examined her, found an OB/GYN who specializes in pediatrics, gave a heads-up to our child abuse specialist who would be consulting the next day, and then I went to write my admission note and made sure that my intern was putting in the right orders. And then I quietly walked into the restroom.

And puked my dinner out.

And then I went to the call room, brushed my teeth, and then went back to the floor and resumed my duties. Another child, this time a garden-variety asthmatic with pneumonia, needed admission.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
tommy1808
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
The difference is, of course, that sex between consenting sexually mature adults or older adolescents of any gender in any number does not harm a victim. Pedophilia does.

Nope. Pedophilia doesn't. Child abuse/molestation does. There is a difference.

Quote:
Not all pedophiles molest children. Nor are all child molesters pedophiles. Studies show that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims

from: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan...14/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 33):
Nope. Pedophilia doesn't. Child abuse/molestation does. There is a difference.

Good point. I stand corrected in my poor choice of words.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
BestWestern
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sat May 23, 2015 3:22 pm

You earned your dollars that day Doc, and no doubt took the work home in the back of your brain for months afterwards.

I have such respect for Paediatric doctors and nurses - it really is a calling. Over the past 15 months, and for many more to come, I've seen and will see the inside of way too many paediatric care centres, NICUs and spent many many hours waiting for paediatric surgeons to come give me an update.

Without fail, the caring and compassionate nature of the teams allows them to fix children and calm parents. It gives parents of sick children confidence and hope.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
nws2002
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 12:38 am

First, I find think it is incredibly sad that this was not reported to authorities for years and that the family tried to hide it away when it was their own daughters that were molested.

However, Josh was 12-14 years old at the time. While it was wrong and it was abusive and molestation, I'm not sure it was pedophilia or something he would do to his own children. I also think the environment created by the parents played a huge role in this. On the tv show, the parents flaunt sex in front of their kids all the time, then tell them how wrong it is to think about it outside of marriage, masturbate or anything else sexual-related. If he was a 'normal' kid, he would have seen pornography, jacked off, and maybe even experimented with peers.

Ok, done defending a child molester. I feel icky now.
 
Mir
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 36):
However, Josh was 12-14 years old at the time. While it was wrong and it was abusive and molestation, I'm not sure it was pedophilia or something he would do to his own children. I also think the environment created by the parents played a huge role in this.

If he hadn't gone on to work for an organization that tries to make the claim that gay people present a danger to children because of pedophilia while presenting itself as having a squeaky clean image, I'd be inclined to agree. But you don't get to do what he did, even if he was 14, and then put down entire groups of people for being potential pedophiles.

I do think this reflects worse on the family than it does on him, but he's still made it very hard to believe he's a good person who did bad things and has since learned his lesson.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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seb146
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 2:03 am

@Kiwirob: What does the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes have to do with anything? I couldn't resist. It was getting really heavy in here.

On a serious note, Josh Duggar committed a crime and paid the price, from what I understand. From what I also understand, this is the first the public has heard of it and, also, I have heard the judge destroyed the records.

So, why didn't TLC know about this and make plans for this possibly happening? Why didn't someone come forward before this? Why would a judge destroy those records?
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LAX772LR
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes

Drat! Beat me to it  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
luckyone
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
Why would a judge destroy those records?

Most likely the judge is a political contact of the Duggar family, one of whom requested (at the behest of their parents) that the record be expunged. Four of the five named women in the case have "Jim Bob" (what a stupid name) and Michelle-my-Zoloft-is-too-strong Duggar named as parents. So I can see both sides of the coin there. We know it was four, the question is which one of the five girls in the house at that time *wasn't* fondled by her brother. And I'm not sure it's fair for the world to know that innocent girls were molested by their brother, and by proxy their parents.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
Why didn't someone come forward before this?

They did. It's quite possible TLC was complicit in sweeping it under the rug.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 36):
I also think the environment created by the parents played a huge role in this.

I agree, to a point. Plenty of kids are sexually repressed and they don't go fondling their sisters. Somewhat unfortunately for Josh Duggar, his band wagon is attached to his parents' name--he would be nothing without it but a used-car salesman. That brand is now very damaged.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 1:07 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
On a serious note, Josh Duggar committed a crime and paid the price, from what I understand. From what I also understand, this is the first the public has heard of it and, also, I have heard the judge destroyed the records.

Probably because he was a minor when it happened and asked for them to be destroyed:

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...ealing-a-juvenile-court-record.htm

In Arkansas they are sealed automatically once they are 18. Most states do this unless tried as an adult.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 36):
Ok, done defending a child molester. I feel icky now.

You're not defending a child molester. He was 12-14 at that time... at that time a boy possibly can't know what he's causing. At that time, the sense for moral and responsibility isn't that great. Growing up is also about getting a sense for personal autonomy - the autonomy of other persons.

And it is not that rare. An ex girlfriend of mine was also touched, regularly, in some very inappropriate ways by her older brother. She still can't decide if it was molestation/sexual abuse. But now she praises how the same brother now supports her in whatever she's doing, and turned into the most reliable person in her whole life. It might be part of making amends.

The whole problem of Josh Duggar isn't what he did at age 12-14. It is about how he supports an environment that allows further child molestation to happen - preaching sexual purity, and likening people who have lost their "purity" to chewing gums that already have been chewed by somebody else.

A victim is not going to report sexual abuse if it's indoctrinated in this way. It will feel guilt, instead of feeling empowered to voice the wrongdoings.

What is somebody like Josh Duggar to do? Maintain the credibility! If he's a well-known preacher, he can and should use his public standing to make his faults an important topic. Speak publicly about how wrong the doctrine of "sexual purity" is when it comes to victims of sexual abuse. But he chose the comfort of his religious environment and his relative stardom ("14 and pregnant!", Family Research Council) over what he could have achieved for his former victims.

"I'm Josh Duggar, board member of the Family Research Council, and I have an announcement to make on behalf of the people I love and I haven't treated properly in the past."


David
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seb146
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 42):
The whole problem of Josh Duggar isn't what he did at age 12-14. It is about how he supports an environment that allows further child molestation to happen

The fact that it happened to multiple girls, to me, goes beyond experimentation. It would still be bad if he had done it to just one girl, but that he did it to four makes me wonder how many others outside the family he did it to and if he has been doing it since.
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mham001
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
Many who molest or sexually abuse children often were abused themselves.

I have no dog in this hunt but let's get this straight, he was 14, 15 and maybe 16 at the time. He wasn't much more than a child (legally) himself. This is unlikely to qualify as pedophilia. There were several mentions of breast fondling so not all were prepubescent, at least.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
On a serious note, Josh Duggar committed a crime and paid the price, from what I understand. From what I also understand, this is the first the public has heard of it and, also, I have heard the judge destroyed the records.

No, that's just it. He got sent away for a few months for "physical labor" remodeling some guy's outhouse. He didn't pay a price. And that would be OK with me, but he never got formal therapy either.

"Atonement" and "Repentance" are not a "price." They are words without a clear definition.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Sun May 24, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 37):
If he hadn't gone on to work for an organization that tries to make the claim that gay people present a danger to children because of pedophilia while presenting itself as having a squeaky clean image, I'd be inclined to agree. But you don't get to do what he did, even if he was 14, and then put down entire groups of people for being potential pedophiles.

I do think this reflects worse on the family than it does on him, but he's still made it very hard to believe he's a good person who did bad things and has since learned his lesson.

And ultimately it's come down to this. Their biggest sin is hypocrisy.

I'm gay and molesting a child has never occurred to me.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
910A
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Mon May 25, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 41):
Probably because he was a minor when it happened and asked for them to be destroyed:

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...ealing-a-juvenile-court-record.htm

In Arkansas they are sealed automatically once they are 18. Most states do this unless tried as an adult.

Expunging or Sealing a Juvenile Court Record has nothing to do with this case, as the case was never submitted for prosecution. In my county (Maricopa, Arizona) the county attorney would keep the reports and file once the alleged offender reaches 18 to insure a adult sentence once convicted.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Mon May 25, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 38):
Why would a judge destroy those records?

The record had a lot of redacts in it. Those redacts had the names of the victims.

Now, do you need or want to know their names? I don't. If you do then I disdainfully accuse you of utterly prurient interest. I'm interested in knowing and concerned about whether they were blamed or told that they were now damaged or taken for secular counseling (i.e. not just prayed over). But I'm not interested in knowing their names.

What's important is what was done, not to whom it was done. The police report with the redactions is quite public and the redacted parts can stay private or go to oblivion.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 36):
However, Josh was 12-14 years old at the time. While it was wrong and it was abusive and molestation, I'm not sure it was pedophilia or something he would do to his own children.

There are multiple definitions of pedophilia. The 16yo definition is based on the assumption that most people are sexually mature adults at 16. However 1) We do not know Josh's degree of sexual maturation at 14. I had one patient at age 14 who had a beard. I had one patient at 13 who had more chest hair than I'll ever have. Both were physically grown men, even though their brains weren't quite caught up with their bodies.

Physically grown men should be attracted to other sexually mature (or mostly sexually mature) adults. But what I *DO* know is that nobody who has even one pubic hair should feel sexual attraction to a 5yo. 5yo children are supposed to be asexual to anyone past Tanner Stage II.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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seb146
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RE: Josh Duggar: Child Molestor

Mon May 25, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
The record had a lot of redacts in it. Those redacts had the names of the victims.

Good. Redact victim's names. Please. That should be done always.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
4. I had one patient at age 14 who had a beard. I had one patient at 13 who had more chest hair than I'll ever have.

Yes, I have seen 10 and 11 year old boys with the beginnings of mustaches. I feel bad for them. I want to protect them but that would be super creepy.
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