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Braybuddy
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Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:11 am

Referendums in other countries were defeated, but it's going to be passed in Ireland. Votes haven't been counted yet, but a landslide Yes in Dublin and other urban centres will carry the vote:

http://www.independent.ie/
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:50 am

Congratulations Ireland! A little over two years ago I watched the final stages of the process here in New Zealand...I unashamedly cried my eyes out as it passed 77 votes to 44 in our parliament, so I can imagine how LGBTI folk in Ireland must be feeling today. Well done  
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:55 am

Cant wait to see the result. Its been wonderful to see the support that the majority have given. People who I thought wouldnt support it have and thats been a great eye opener.

Sadly the same cant be said among large sections of the immigrant communities from the Middle East,Eastern Europe and Africa. Thank god alot of them dont have the vote in referendums.

What is great is that any result is the actual will of the people and not just brought in by the government.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:57 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I can imagine how LGBTI folk in Ireland must be feeling today. Well done

There was a real feelgood feeling yesterday and today, particularly as it's down to a popular vote. Looks like a 2 to 1 vote in favour. It now becomes part of the constitution.

There'll be some parties tonight!
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:07 am

Congrats! Will buy a Guinness to drink to that!


David
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mariner
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:09 am

I'll cheer if it happens, of course, but I'll wait until the results are declared.

mariner
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flyingturtle
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:10 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):

Oh. I'll keep the beer cold.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:14 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):

I'll cheer if it happens, of course, but I'll wait until the results are declared.

mariner

You can't count your chickens till the fat lady sings, of course  , but there's no way it will be defeated. The No campaigners have admitted they can't win and have congratulated the Yes side, which was decent of them.

Looks like a 2-to-1 vote in favour.
 
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mariner
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:17 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
You can't count your chickens till the fat lady sings, of course

It always worries me when people do count their chickens - I've been disappointed before.

Yes, it looks good, but I've waited all my life - I can wait a few hours more.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:19 am

Im looking forward to seeing the break down in results across the country. Some we already can guess but interesting all the same.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):

Im looking forward to seeing the break down in results across the country. Some we already can guess but interesting all the same.

What is interesting is that most rural constituencies are showing a Yes vote, though just in the 50-55% range. Remarkably, the highest Yes votes seem to be from poorer Dublin working class constituencies with over 70% voting in favour. My own constituency of Wicklow is showing a 68-32% split, in favour of a Yes.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 11:47 am

This historic vote in approving of Gay Marriage in Ireland reflects a quickly changing attitude by 'conservative' voters agreeing with 'liberal' voters that they both want the Government having less regulation of personal lives. I also suspect this is in part from a growing shift of many away from organized religion, in particular the Roman Catholic faith due to serious institutional problems of them from the well exposed horrible history of sexual abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. This was particularly severe in Ireland. Apparently the RCC in Ireland limited their support for a No vote to preaching from the pulpit, most of the No vote ad support came from RCC and Church of Ireland 'family' groups. I wonder too if the vote was also about pressure from Irish based and international companies that operate in Ireland that they want Gay Marriage legal for the benefits of their staffs and international public relations.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 12:14 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Apparently the RCC in Ireland limited their support for a No vote to preaching from the pulpit, most of the No vote ad support came from RCC and Church of Ireland 'family' groups. I wonder too if the vote was also about pressure from Irish based and international companies that operate in Ireland that they want Gay Marriage legal for the benefits of their staffs and international public relations.

While the church was advocating a No vote, some individual priests said they were voting Yes. There was a letter from the Archbishop to be read out in churches last Sunday, but one priest refused to read it out and said it was available for collection at the door if people wanted it. The Catholic Church can't really afford to moralise any more in this country.

Some international companies called for a Yes vote, but this would have had minimal impact. It could even have had the opposite effect in some cases.

While the Yes vote is comfortably high, it would have been higher were it not for the No campaigners scaring voters with issues around surrogacy. That definitely had an impact, going by the opinion polls of the last couple of weeks, but thankfully most people saw this for what it was, a large red herring.
 
kaitak
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 1:13 pm

I'm delighted that this has happened; I was worried last week, because some reports suggested that the "Yes" vote was in freefall, although I think that was from a journalist who was advocating a "no" vote; if anything that had the effect of re-emphasising the need for people to go out to vote.

A lot of people came home for the weekend from far places across Europe, to vote.

This is a historic day for Ireland and remembering my own youth, when even issues like divorce and abortion could be defeated by forces massed by the Church, the fact that something which would then have been seen as impossible, shows how far Ireland has cast off the shackles of religious conservatism. Dr. McQuaid (a notoriously conservative and very powerful Archbishop of Dublin from the 1940s to the early '70s) must be rolling in his grave.

Let's hope the legislation to permit same sex marriage can be brought forward asap, as all parties seem to support it.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 1:19 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 13):
Dr. McQuaid (a notoriously conservative and very powerful Archbishop of Dublin from the 1940s to the early '70s) must be rolling in his grave.

Well, as we discovered years after his death, he was also a child molester. May he roll for eternity . . .  

Some pics from the day:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9A2koS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PY0Y2kn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/a7IIEV5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3AxVfN8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9dmRVBu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rAPgTSP.jpg
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
I wonder too if the vote was also about pressure from Irish based and international companies that operate in Ireland that they want Gay Marriage legal for the benefits of their staffs and international public relations.

Indeed Ebay were quite vocal in their Yes stance.
 
greenjet
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 2:10 pm

Well done Ireland. Just because something is in a country's constitution does not mean the constitution should never be changed or challenged. Let the people speak!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting greenjet (Reply 16):
Well done Ireland. Just because something is in a country's constitution does not mean the constitution should never be changed or challenged. Let the people speak!

I just am worried that this can be equally quickly rescinded by voters if public perception of gays goes sour. This is why rights should never be subject to a vote.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
I just am worried that this can be equally quickly rescinded by voters if public perception of gays goes sour. This is why rights should never be subject to a vote.



Now that its passed it would be very difficult for it to be changed back if not near impossible. Ireland is a different society than 20 years ago. This model might not work in other countries but in Ireland it has.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
I just am worried that this can be equally quickly rescinded by voters if public perception of gays goes sour. This is why rights should never be subject to a vote.

Once it's in the constitution -- as it will be now the referendum has been passed -- politicians can't touch it, so it's not subject to possible intervention every five years by a new administration. It's difficult to propose any amendment to the constitution, much more difficult than any change of legislation, and once changes are introduced they usually remain.

There has never been any proposal to overturn any amendment to the constitution, so this is far more concrete than any legislation introduced by parliament.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 19):
There has never been any proposal to overturn any amendment to the constitution, so this is far more concrete than any legislation introduced by parliament.

What if a far-right party wins by a landslide and popular opinion turns like Russia's has?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
What if a far-right party wins by a landslide and popular opinion turns like Russia's has?

We dont have a far right party as seen in other countries.

-

Result for Galway West: Yes 61.50% No 38.50%. That is 32,037 Yes votes and 20,053 No votes. A margin of 11,984. The turnout is 55.18%.

Result for Louth: Yes 63.46% No 36.54%. That is 38,758 Yes votes and 22,313 No votes. A margin of 16,445. The turnout is 59.92%.

Result for Donegal North East: Yes 52.54% No 47.46%.

Result for Donegal South West: Yes 50.05% No 49.95%.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
What if a far-right party wins by a landslide and popular opinion turns like Russia's has?

As OA says, there is no far right party in the country. We did have an economically right wing party up to the last government, but they only got 3 or so per cent of the vote. The Irish electorate is by-and-large dominated by the politics of the centre, far left and far right parties have never been popular. Extreme politics is just a non-runner in this country, despite recessions and economic collapses.

Thankfully, a Putin-like politician would never get anywhere here. He'd be laughed out of court.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
We dont have a far right party as seen in other countries.

well, you could have one one day....

Since I am not familiar with the Irish constitution or the stance of the irish constitutional court, but shouldn't Article 40.1 make reverting to a less equal legislation impossible anyways? Do you have any eternity clause to protect human rights once codified like the German?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
well, you could have one one day....

It would be very unlikely to be honest. There is no history of it and even in bad times economically when historically in many countries there has been a swing to right wing views there has been no such swing here. You can never say never but its a very slim possibilty. If you were to say this could happen in Northern Ireland I would agree. Its a totally different country and actually more and more culturally different as the years roll on and very much shows in this recent campaign.

Amazing that the Republic or Ireland has bypassed the UK in such things when it was totally the other way around 20-30 years ago. The Irish youth have been amazing in this campaign too and came out and voted in their droves. Its a bright future when you see how the attitudes have changed.
 
greenjet
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
I just am worried that this can be equally quickly rescinded by voters if public perception of gays goes sour. This is why rights should never be subject to a vote.

I can't see public perception of gays changing anytime soon. It's not like they are a political party that promises things and then fails to deliver. Why shouldn't people's rights be subject to a vote? If we rely on politicians, albeit chosen by the public, to make all the decisions we're done for.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
Thankfully, a Putin-like politician would never get anywhere here. He'd be laughed out of court.

Yep, and if that ever did happen it's not like Ireland has any military might to intimidate her people and keep them in line.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
well, you could have one one day...

It would only ever attract a minority of votes. The country is far to small for any large extreme parties.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
Article 40.1 make reverting to a less equal legislation impossible anyways?

You would think so, but then I'm no lawyer. Article 40.1 says "All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law. This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.", so there could be nuanced interpretations here.


Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
Do you have any eternity clause to protect human rights once codified like the German?

Not that I'm aware of, but the constitution is difficult to change, and can only be done so by the will of the people.
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 5:54 pm

Official results now coming in.

1,201,607 Voted YES

734,300 Voted NO




http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/958378DE-4154-4613-A494-7DCC36931214_zps18owkrdn.png
.
http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/DCEEF490-DDE3-4F5B-966D-ADA5FB2F68BC_zpsebthv5k0.png


[Edited 2015-05-23 11:19:00]
 
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scbriml
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 6:21 pm

Well done, Ireland!

I can't wait to hear the reaction of the catholic church.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 28):
I can't wait to hear the reaction of the catholic church.   

Indeed they need to move with the will of the people and the times but lets not forget many thousands of Catholics voted Yes so kudos to them. I have many friends who are practising Catholics who supported the Yes campaign and I respect them.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 6:41 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 28):
I can't wait to hear the reaction of the catholic church.

The Archbishop of Dublin says the Catholic Church needs a "reality check".

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...o-connect-with-youth-31247826.html

WHAT WAS THAT NOISE I JUST HEARD??????

Oh, it was just some pigs flying by . . .  
 
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mariner
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
1,201,607 Voted YES

734,300 Voted NO

Now I'm cheering.

And raising my glass in a toast to the memory of my two friends, Micheál Mac Liammóir and Hilton Edwards, who lived openly as a couple in Dublin from when they first met, back in the 1920's, and who showed me tremendous kindness.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
And raising my glass in a toast to the memory of my two friends, Micheál Mac Liammóir and Hilton Edwards, who lived openly as a couple in Dublin from when they first met, back in the 1920's, and who showed me tremendous kindness.

Trailblazers indeed, who were shown great affection and respect in a time when there were no homosexuals in Ireland . . .  

Apparently Panti, the drag queen/campaigner will be delivering the Irish votes at the Eurovision Song Contest later  Wow!
 
EI320
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 7:43 pm

In the Norris v A.G Supreme Court ruling of 1983, the Chief Justice concluded his judgement with the following remarks:

On the ground of the Christian nature of our State and on the grounds that the deliberate practice of homosexuality is morally wrong, that it is damaging to the health both of individuals and the public and, finally, that it is potentially harmful to the institution of marriage, I can find no inconsistency with the Constitution in the laws which make such conduct criminal. It follows, in my view, that no right of privacy, as claimed by the plaintiff, can prevail against the operation of such criminal sanctions.

It really is quite remarkable how far we have come in just over 30 years; over these three decades we have moved from a point where the practice of homosexuality was a criminal offence, to one where it can now be openly celebrated. The Minister for Health, Leo Varadkar, described today's landmark event not as a referendum, but as a "social revolution". Based on the 1983 Norris judgement, it is absolutely nothing short of a revolution, and one that we in Ireland can be very proud of.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 7:52 pm

I fundamentally disagree with the concept of voting on rights.... but then again, it got the rights to the people, so I guess I'll just be a happy hypocrite in this regard.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
The No campaigners have admitted they can't win and have congratulated the Yes side, which was decent of them.

Holy crap, that'd NEVER happen here! Good on them.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
and popular opinion turns like Russia's has

When did the Russian populace ever show favor toward gays???

Quoting greenjet (Reply 25):
I can't see public perception of gays changing anytime soon

Indeed, especially seeing as the Youth vote was the highest in favor (according to CNN Live)... they'll likely carry that favor into their later adulthood.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 34):
I fundamentally disagree with the concept of voting on rights.... but then again, it got the rights to the people, so I guess I'll just be a happy hypocrite in this regard

The thing is, the only way to change legislation is to have Parliament vote, or offer it to the people. So whatever way you want to bring in legislation it has to be voted on. Better to offer it to the electorate than 166 representatives, who could subsequently change their mind. And no-one can ever say this was ever pushed through against the will of the people.

[Edited 2015-05-23 13:05:31]
 
tommy1808
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 34):
I fundamentally disagree with the concept of voting on rights....

as long as you can't take rights away once they are codified....

There aren't that many ways to get rights written into law, you can vote for the directly like here, vote for a government that "gives" it to you, a kind dictator "granting" you a right or a constitutional court deciding that the constitution already contains that right. Said constitution has to come from somewhere as well.
Ultimately you either live in a dictatorship or you vote for rights.

It's not perfect... thats true...

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 8:46 pm

Welcome to the 21st century Ireland! Congrats!!

Martijn
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OA260
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 8:51 pm

Some light humour  

Emotional scenes as last Irish closet factory closes

There were emotional scenes across Ireland today, as the country’s last remaining closet factory announced that it was moving it’s entire operation to Northern Ireland ‘with immediate effect’.

Indi-Closets said that the situation was ‘totally unavoidable’, after orders for their closet range suddenly ‘nosedived’ following the people of Ireland’s decision that the colourful fabric of society no longer needed to be kept behind closed doors.

Shareholders of Indi-Closets said that whilst they were ‘disappointed’ to have to lay off their entire workforce in the Republic, that an ‘amazing relocation package’ had come in from Northern Ireland, lead by a consortium from the DUP.

http://www.purederry.com/emotional-s...-last-irish-closet-factory-closes/
 
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mariner
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:03 pm

There's a great piece by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times today - with a somewhat surprising headline:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...eft-tolerance-far-behind-1.2223838

"Fintan O’Toole: Ireland has left ‘tolerance’ far behind

The overwhelming victory for the Yes side in the marriage equality referendum is not as good as it looks.

It’s much better.

It looks extraordinary – little Ireland becoming the first country in the world to support same sex marriage by direct popular vote. But actually it’s about the ordinary. Ireland has redefined what it means go be an ordinary human being.

We’ve made it clear to the world that there is a new normal — that “ordinary” is a big, capacious word that embraces and rejoices in the natural diversity of humanity. LGBT people are now a fully acknowledged part of the wonderful ordinariness of Irish life.

It looks like a victory for tolerance. But it’s actually an end to mere toleration."


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
It's much better

Indeed it is: while the over 60 per cent Yes vote was very good, it should have been higher. True to form, the No side did their best to scupper the referendum by bringing children and surrogacy into the debate. So much so that I was practically screaming at the debates as all they seemed to be about was surrogacy, which had nothing to do with the referendum, it was a completely separate issue. The opinion polls were increasingly negative as the debates wore on, and a lot of people, including myself, we're actually fearful that it would be defeated.

Thankfully, the basic decency of the Irish people shone through.
 
Part147
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:37 pm

It would have passed as long as 51% of those who turned out for it, voted for it... that's democracy in action!

I'm not sure why you are not happy with over 60%?... Surely you realise that 'only' about 60% of the total electorate voted today, so perhaps knowing that 'only' 60% of THAT 60% voted for it, makes it less YES...?  
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
 
tommy1808
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting Part147 (Reply 42):
I'm not sure why you are not happy with over 60%?

"just" 60% civilized citizens smack in 21st century Europe is disappointing, but it is a fair "In your face, Neanderthals!"

Nah, I am being unfair to the Neanderthals. ... The HAD gay marriage, and lesbian marriage.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
BestWestern
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:58 pm

The Irish voting system isn't as swayed by big bucks investments in campaigns in a way that the U.S. Campaigns are. This means that no one side buys all the air time, although I understand that the U.S. Right wing did pour money into the Vote no campaign.

The national broadcaster is required to give equal time and weight to both sides that allows for a good balanced debate.

I don't follow the concern on the vote question. An ultra right wing party would just have to change legislation. Now a full electoral vote would have to take place.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting Part147 (Reply 42):
I'm not sure why you are not happy with over 60%?... Surely you realise that 'only' about 60% of the total electorate voted today, so perhaps knowing that 'only' 60% of THAT 60% voted for it, makes it less YES...?  

i'm DELIGHTED it was a resounding 60 per cent! I was saying that it would have been higher were it not for the scare tactics of the No campaign, which were completely dishonest and distracting. But they got desperate as the campaign wore on, so it's no surprise really.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24168
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 45):
I was saying that it would have been higher were it not for the scare tactics of the No campaign, which were completely dishonest and distracting.

Agreed a few colleagues at work were confused by the children issue but they were educated on the truth  

Credit must go out to Sinn Fein in the border counties too because their support did have an impact. So whatever views on other issues people may disagree with they must be given credit.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15051
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sun May 24, 2015 1:29 am

There was several Americans that went over to Ireland to support the yes side of the vote. One of the observers, a person named Bill Baroni, had to get permission from a US Court to have his passport and travel to Ireland and return as under indictment, been arrested, on bail and pending trial for his part with the PANYNJ with the 'Bridgegate' scandal here in NJ. I bet if he was backing the 'no' side he wouldn't have been allowed by the court to travel.

The US Constitution does not allow for National Referendum, only states or per state laws in local government can. Normally they are for State Constitutional amendments, or as to certain spending issues. In the USA, Per the US Constitution, the states have complete control of Marriage laws, but States, further supported by a key Amendment after the Civil War, must recognize marriages legally performed in other states. But for Gay Marriage, most states are similar to each other as to other rules.

Several referendum have been held in the USA States, but most have rejected Gay Marriage, one notorious Initiative - referendum in California reversed State Court decisions to allow for Gay Marriage. In large part the No vote, and money support of it came from the Mormon/LDS Church and seeking support from religious Black voters. Hopefully a US Supreme Court will soon end (likely in Late June) in a case pending a decision, the state by state nonsense of bans on Gay Marriage in some states and others not allowing them. At the least, all states must recognize Gay Marriages done in other states that allow it, just like 'traditional' marriage is recognized. At the best, would be that all states must officiate and recognize Gay Marriages. The case of Loving v. Virginia, a mid-1960's SCOTUS decision that ended state bans on interracial marriage is a key precedent and one that will likely be followed in the case.
 
scamp
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:48 am

RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sun May 24, 2015 2:09 am

Well, I suppose this is a good thing, but it's pretty sad when people are voting on other people's rights. Bittersweet.
If it pisses off the right, I'm all for it.
 
DDR
Posts: 1721
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

RE: Ireland First Country To Vote Yes To Gay Marriage

Sun May 24, 2015 3:35 am

Any day that equal rights are expanded is a very good day. Congrats Ireland!!

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