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RE: Obama: World Does Not Believe Israel

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:36 pm
by flyingturtle
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 43):
The problem is that we saw what happened when Israel gave Gaza back. It turned into a cesspool of terrorist scumbags, i.e Hamas.

One has to be imbecile to think such a plan would work out well. First, one has to create the structures for self-government, which inevitably means a strong Palestinian police (or even military) force which can and will disarm Hamas. Something like this can't happen without armored fighting vehicles and other equipment.

Those people also need to be well-paid, otherwise policemen would feel more loyal towards Hamas which pays better, especially in those times when Israel is withholding tax income from the Palestinian government.

The only good plan would have been one that marginalizes the extremists, and gives people a reason to stand by the laws, human rights, democracy and a fairly elected government.


David

RE: Obama: World Does Not Believe Israel

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:47 pm
by TheCommodore
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 35):
The land theft angle, is obviously the biggest issue.

That's just the start of it....

Israel controls almost all aspects of Palestinian life from day to day. Children have difficulty getting to school and University, parents to work, the sick and injured to hospitals, because Israel has erected hundreds of checkpoints and roadblocks obstructing Palestinian movement around their own country.

Also....

Roadblocks ! Israel has the ability – which it uses with disturbing frequency – to completely shut down parts or all of the West Bank and Gaza. Sometimes Israel imposes, by force of arms, a ‘curfew’ for an entire city or village.

Midnight raids are conducted of Gaza's familys looking for children who throw rocks at the IDF. Children are arrested on suspicion, and held for days (against international law and nearly every UN resolution) until they are either jailed or released.

Also, Israel "sometimes' decides, to limit water and power to Gaza.

Can you imagine how hard life must be living like that ?



Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 38):
Its the same argument.

No it is not. Compare Apples with Apples. Land is generally taken during war times. Israel continuing to build new settlements on "stolen" land is not that, its just stolen land !

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 38):
Israel was allotted the space in the pre 1967 borders

Really, I understood Israel was disputing or at the very least not happy with this 1967 thing ?

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 43):
I agree with you, and Israel as a country probably doesn't have a right to all the land, at least the West Bank and Gaza

Your bloody right they don't have the "right" to "all" the land. and Israel has been told numerous times, by the US, by the UN, and by the EU, as well as many individual countries to leave and get the hell out of it....

So why don't they ?

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 43):
The problem is that we saw what happened when Israel gave Gaza back. It turned into a cesspool of terrorist scumbags, i.e Hamas.

Again... Israel causing.

Over the last few years, on no less than 3 separate occasions, Israel has withheld vital money from the Gazan's that they need to pay the Police, for the nurses in hospitals, for teachers etc etc etc.

Is it really any wonder it turned to Hamas ?

Come on. What dose Israel expect is going to happen when most normal day to day life can't happen because there is simply NO money ????

Israel knows this full well. Its so obvious to everyone. what exactly are they playing at ?

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 44):
Cause and result.

Agree !

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 50):

One has to be imbecile to think such a plan would work out well. First, one has to create the structures for self-government, which inevitably means a strong Palestinian police (or even military) force which can and will disarm Hamas. Something like this can't happen without armored fighting vehicles and other equipment.

Hard to do when Israel withholds money/. Money which is NOT theirs to withhold !

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...stine-international-criminal-court

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4623165,00.html

RE: Obama: World Does Not Believe Israel

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:56 pm
by iowaman
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