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alberchico
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Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:31 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578174

Was it normal for people in the 1930's to be friendly toward the Nazi movement before the war started ?
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prebennorholm
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:47 am

Ask Henry Ford.

Maybe not "until the war started", but until the nazi crimes got momentum in the mid 30'es and got widely known abroad, then decent people acted politely.

Germany was a mess from WW1 and onwards. and the nazis taking power in 1933 didn't very much change hopes for improvements or fear for the opposite. They were just another street gang.

Salutes are different in different places - we don't need to go to Japan or China to realize that. Nazi salute and swastica flag only became symbols of nazi crimes after the crimes had been committed and known.

Of course Danes, Dutchmen and other neighbors thought that the nazi salute was kind of funny, but they were Germans. "Heil Hitler" instead of the former "Grüss Gott", well, officially they mostly changed religion, so not so strange.

[Edited 2015-07-17 18:59:07]
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Mir
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:53 am

There are reaches, and then there's trying to make a story out of a video of a now-in-her-80s woman when she was a child basically just observing protocol during a visit by a leader of another country who the UK wasn't at war with yet.

Does anybody really give a damn about this?

-Mir
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JeffSFO
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578174

Was it normal for people in the 1930's to be friendly toward the Nazi movement before the war started ?

It was normal for Edward VIII, a well-known anti-semite and Nazi sympathizer:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/new-...windsor-plotted-with-adolf-hitler/
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:56 am

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578174

Was it normal for people in the 1930's to be friendly toward the Nazi movement before the war started ?


Yes it was. The Red Cross even toured prison camps and came away with zero concern that people were being mistreated. Lindbergh visited military facilities and received an award. He later gave a controversial speech, but the truth of his speech is that he understood what the Nazi military was capable of and warned that the Jewish race would bear the brunt of the Third Riech. He was right and for that some consider him an anti-Semite because of the forceful language he used.

[Edited 2015-07-17 21:07:00]
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CPH-R
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:11 am

It's worth noting who's doing the publishing. I'd be very surprised if the Daily Mail had been the ones to publish it, as they were very much pro-Nazi and pro-Blackshirt during the 1930's.

Hell, if you want to fan the flames of history, look up images of US school children doing the same salute towards the US flag in 1942! Of course, it was known to them as the Bellamy salute, but still...

Edit: And as mentioned in the BBC piece, it'd be interesting to learn how the film was obtained in the first place, as it's very much a private film, as opposed to something recorded by, say, the BBC or British Pathe.

[Edited 2015-07-18 00:14:31]
 
NAV30
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:25 am

After WW1 the 'western Allies' hatched a plan that involved Germany in paying monstrous sums in 'compensation' for WW1 - starting in 1921. This resulted in the defeated Germans being reduced to abject poverty, right through the 1920s, and was directly responsible for the rise of the Nazis and Hitler to power, and therefore eventually to World War Two.

"The London Schedule of Payments of 5 May 1921 established "the full liability of all the Central Powers combined, not just Germany alone," at 132 billion gold marks.[42] This sum was a compromise promoted by Belgium—against higher figures demanded by the French and Italians and the lower figure the British supported—that "represented an assessment of the lowest amount that public opinion ... would tolerate".[43]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_reparations

Oddly enough, my own father's age 'went with the century' - he was called up in early 1918, into the 'London Irish Rifles,' just in time to take part in the final offensive against Germany - and was still young enough to find himself called up AGAIN in 1939 (although, thankfully, at age 39, he was spared 'active service') but spent the whole of WW2 working in Central London during the day, right through the Blitz, and patrolling with the "Home Guard' for most of the night!

It was obvious to him and his colleagues that the merciless treatment of ordinary Germans through the 1920s-30s led directly to the rise of Hitler's Nazis and the outbreak of WW2. He never deviated from his belief that mistakes made after WW1 (particularly reducing Germany to decades of abject poverty) led directly to the rise of Hitler and the outbreak of WW2.

Since I was born in 1939, I suppose that I should add that (living in a village just outside London) being bombed by the Luftwaffe (and later by V1 'buzz-bombs' and V2s) were among my own earliest memories.

[Edited 2015-07-18 01:31:23]
 
Airstud
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:12 am

"The newspaper has refused to say how it got the footage but said it was an "important and interesting story."

I wish The Sun could be prevailed upon to explain why the hell they think this story is either of those things.
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pvjin
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:22 pm

Who really cares, at that point Nazis hadn't really done much of all that discrimination and genocide that later rightfully gave them a bad name.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Aesma
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:39 pm

NAV30 : you can blame everything on the reparations, and I don't necessarily disagree, however I'd say inconsistency of the neighbor countries was also to blame. The reparations and other penalties (limits in steel production etc.) were meant to make Germany incapable of building up a large military again, and when it did, nobody tried to stop it. WW2 wouldn't have happened if Germany had been pacified like Japan later was.
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pvjin
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):

Germany did not start WW1, nor was it any more responsible for it than the powers fighting against it. Those one sided reparations caused rightful bitterness among German people, bitterness that together with harsh economic times (which of course also had quite a bit do with reparations) allowed Nazis to rise.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):

I wish The Sun could be prevailed upon to explain why the hell they think this story is either of those things.


so Rupert Murdoch can line his pockets,
 
sccutler
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:39 pm

I think we should all pay this release the proper, deserved, quantum of attention.

OK, done.

Next?
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Boeing717200
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 12):
I think we should all pay this release the proper, deserved, quantum of attention.

OK, done.

Next?

LOL. Indeed.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Was it normal for people in the 1930's to be friendly toward the Nazi movement before the war started ?

This reminds me of Joseph (Pope Benedict XVI) Ratzinger's involvement with Nazi Germany and the Hitler Youth. Joseph Ratzinger, born in April 1927 joined the Hitler Youth in 1941.

Quote wiki:
Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after March 1939[13]—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[14] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[15] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer.[14] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[16] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established a headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[17] As a German soldier, he was interned in a prisoner of war camp, but released a few months later at the end of the war in May 1945.[17]

-50%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Be...ct_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351

   
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Aesma
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 10):
Germany did not start WW1

Yeah, right. Who did invade neighboring neutral countries, then attacked its major neighbor ? It wasn't Britain, nor Russia, nor France...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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pvjin
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Yeah, right. Who did invade neighboring neutral countries, then attacked its major neighbor ? It wasn't Britain, nor Russia, nor France...

Austria-Hungary started the war. Then the end the stupid line of alliances did the rest and turned this small conflict into an European wide one. All sides deserve blame.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
ltbewr
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:01 am

It would be interesting to find out how The Sun got this film, likely someone found it in the Royal Archives or in a library or a personal collection. The Sun - owned by the Murdoch family interests - did this to get people to buy their bird cage lining tabloid newspaper. It may backfire considering the context of the time it occurred in, the well known record of service and support of the UK by the Royal family during WWII. Yes, there is the German side of the family and as others well noted the current Queen's uncle was in the 1930's and into the War period was pro-Nazi and pro-German. Even in exile in the Bahamas, he met with pro-Nazi persons.

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Was it normal for people in the 1930's to be friendly toward the Nazi movement before the war started ?

In the USA in the 1930's and even until a declaration of war after Pearl Harbor in Dec. 1941 there was significant numbers of German-American 'Bund' groups mainly in urban areas like NY City and Chicago, with city meeting places and camps in rural areas outside those cities. Several were in northern NJ, one not far from where I grew up in Bloomingdale NJ, and a large one in Andover, NJ. there were others in the Catskill Mt. area NW of NYC, as well as around Chicago. There were major rallies in major cities, including in NYC's Madison Sq. Garden (at its site then by 50th St and 8th Ave). By the late 1930's Jewish groups in NYC for example, started to confront these rallies, sometimes violently, and pressuring politicians, caused their end. The Bund Camps were pretty much shut down by local law enforcement and local pressure by 1940. In the case of the one in Andover, NJ, the Sussex Co. Sheriff, I believe served in WWI and quite anti-Nazi, cause a raid on the camp, the property seized by the State government. That later became the site of a town park and sports fields.
In the UK, I am quite sure there were some pro-Nazi's especially of Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland and where significant numbers of Catholic Irish lived in major cities in England like London, due to their hatred of the UK policy toward Ireland for centuries.
 
GDB
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:30 am

I think if anything, as US commentator David Frum tweeted, these images show just how lucky we were that Edward became so infatuated with one Wallis Simpson.
Because it gave a good pretext for doing what the Government wanted to do anyway, that is get rid of this dissolute, deeply suspect man.
It wasn't just his support, or at best, 'understanding' of Facism, he would leave the sensitive government documents he had sight of, lying around, unsigned, stains from whisky tumblers all over them. That's when he bothered to even do them.

At the time, many with no liking at all for dictators on the Continent, had applauded his call to 'do something' about the effects of the great depression on ordinary people, trouble is a Constitutional Monarch is not supposed to be a populist much less get in to politics at all.
(Take note Charles).
In this case, anyone of the centre/left who thought 'at least this member of the ruling class cares' would soon find what it actually meant in this case was palling up with Oswald Mosley.

Any history of the stand against Nazi Germany, when Britain was alone in that most dangerous period from June 1940 to June '41, recalls that a major reason people for the most part stood together was that both Churchill And the King were resolute. Had there been any doubt about this the political balancing act Winnie was doing could well have come apart.
But that wasn't a problem because we were rid of Ed the Unworthy.
And his successor and the current Queen have carried out their duties in the exact opposite fashion to their troublesome predecessor.

As for The Sun, it has always dubbed itself the uber patriotic paper.
It is run (and old Rupe does 'run' it) by a hostile Republican, who has always hated many things about Britain, the Monarchy, any politician who challenges him, the BBC, the NHS.
He does like the SNP. I wonder why?
Make no mistake, he will still be sore from the 2011 phone hacking fall-out, with his not very convincing 'humble' apology.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:57 am

I just watched the video and what I see are two little girls giggiling, jumping up and down and having fun in front a camera. The "action" lasts about 15 seconds at the most and without sound can't really be taken seriously or with today's understanding of later Events. Big deal.
A330 man.
 
BN747
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:28 pm

All Royalty (Brits,Dutch,etc) welcomed Nazi/Hitler attics on all levels. After the Bolshelviks killed Czar Alexander & his family (think French Rev - doing away with royal bloodlines) - virtually ALL royal families were terrified that Bolshelvism could easily tip in their directions and end their very bloodlines. Thus the hatred of the Russians. But Hitler, who ruthlessly hated Russians, represented 'hope' against their demise/reign. Hitler/Nazis had no cash, the state was piss poor broke..but as his political fortunes expanded, financial support exploded from Royal bloodlines (as a hero to stop the Bolshelvick ideals from spreading beyond Russian borders).

American financial support via Henry Ford, Alfred Sloan and other industrial power titans couldn't help themselves from coming to Hitler's aid. Not sure of his name, but the head of AT&T aided the Nazis with state of the art network communications across the Deutschland. Most Americans are all to familiar with the ground war struggle and ultimate victory of WWII but very few are aware of the war from the skybox seats. These people (the very same who attempted to secure the aid of Gen. Smedly Butler and Army, to overthrow the US gov't/Roosevelt in order to pave the way for a Facist state. Butler betrayed them all. (Butler's own disclosure about this lives on in the documented archives of youtube). The elite class of American denizens wanted the isolationist public out of the way and wanted in on the war just over the horizon. Once Roosevelt saw Butler's list of traitors..his knew he could do nothing - the US was just recovering from the 1929 Stock Market Crash and he knew disturbing this hornet's nest could easily destroy the nation's recovery - he needed them more than they needed him. But in sum, the western private powers loved themselves some Adolf, even after uncovering the 100s on concentration & Death camps became known..making money on War was first and foremost - it's always been that way. You and I may hold great appreciation for the mighty Russian effort to overpower the Nazis..but rest assured, that was not the common sentiment of the Elite at the time. They knew Jews and others were being led to slaughter ..and them it meant nothing. WWII view from the top needs much more scrutiny and revisiting to rival the stories of the troops, tank and aircraft battles.

Back during this very moment it was 'cute' to capture children mimicking adult behavior or sentiment.
Better still to get it on film to 'remember'.

BN747

[Edited 2015-07-19 16:47:47]

[Edited 2015-07-19 17:30:18]
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Pyrex
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:13 am

Frankly surprised how this came out - I thought Buckingham Palace had managed to crush all negative coverage of the Royal family recently.
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NAV30
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RE: Queen Nazi Salute Film Obtained

Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:37 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
All Royalty (Brits,Dutch,etc) welcomed Nazi/Hitler attics on all levels.

Cordially welcoming official overseas visitors has been the duty of all British royal families for the last 1,000 years - and that 'courtesy' will undoubtedly have included using their official salute. My guess is that the Queen Mother and her husband were practising this and the kids innocently joined in. Good balanced comment here:-

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/18/europe/uk-queen-nazi-salute-footage/

As a matter of fact, the 'raised arm' salute was originally a 'salute to the flag' (arguably introduced in Roman times) and was widely used all over the world - until the Nazis 'gave it a bad name.' My guess is that it is still used quite a lot in different parts of the world:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

Arguably, the nowadays more-often-used bent elbow to the forehead which is now more often used worldwide was introduced not only in order not to use a discredited symbol - but also to avoid the obvious risk of knocking the guy in front's hat/helmet off when formed in close order!  

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