Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13034
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 96):
Since a majorly of US citizens support immigration, then it's not a problem for the Republicans either.

You can't have it both ways.

What does "support immigration" mean ?

I can have it both ways because Trump's problem is not his platform (although it doesn't make sense, mostly) but his blatant racism and general disrespect for anything and anyone.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 97):
Canada too, we have an election coming up in October and the conservatives in power are running very red meat attack ads constantly.

I'm so glad such ads are illegal in France !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2638
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:20 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 77):
I bet Trump would not like it if someone gave out his phone number.

Yeah seriously. Then he'd have to figure out how to use one of those things.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 80):
At present he is the leading GOP candidate. That may or may not remain true tomorrow.

Of course it won't. Might take a few weeks, but the GOP base has a pretty short attention span. A series of new candidates will be trotted out, each saying dumber things than the last, but just with different demographic appeal. They'll have a black one, a hispanic one, a vagina one --I mean woman one--, a fat one, and finally when none of them can strike that mythical combination of loudness and ineptitude they'll all seem so obsessed with, they'll go back to a moderate one. Who will still lose in the end, since he can't get independents* on board.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 99):
If, big if, Trump wins the GOP race will Hilary get a boost or will the centre right just not vote next November?

Either's fine.



* - I mean real swing votes, not obvious republicans who don't want to admit they're republicans in polite company.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 100):

I can have it both ways because Trump's problem is not his platform (although it doesn't make sense, mostly) but his blatant racism and general disrespect for anything and anyone.


Which is why his 15 minutes of fame is just about up and he's not a Republcian problem either.

And no, you can't have it both ways.

By the way, interesting read in light of your "majority" assertion:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...-opinion_55aa6a86e4b0d2ded39f2d12?

[Edited 2015-07-23 07:09:34]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1455
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 100):
Trump is attracting the very same people who fell for our Alaskan dame. They are falling for the rhetoric of bombast and allure of celebrity

Yep, and having Donald Trump as President would pretty much eliminate immigration. Nobody would want to come here
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 102):
Which is why his 15 minutes of fame is just about up and he's not a Republcian problem either.
http://www.wsj.com/video/donald-trum...6-B7B6-44CD-91E2-869242E37EFD.html

The Wall Street Journal --hardly a bastion of liberal anticapitalist sentiment-- disagrees. He is still going quite strong.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 94):
24% of Democrats do not support gay Marriage. Is that a detriment to the Democrats? Is their party falling apart? Is it the end of the DNC?

Supporting marriage equality is a binary issue. You either do or you don't. Assuming that your number of 24% is correct (and it seems believable to me) that means that 76% of likely Democratic voters do support marriage equality. And so in this case, those 24% are a solid minority. That means that if the question were to be settled by a vote of Democratic voters, marriage equality would win.

But that is not equivalent to this situation with Donald Trump. In this case, it is not a binary decision but rather a decision split sixteen ways (is it sixteen now? I keep losing track...). And so in the case of Donald Trump, his supporters are a PLURALITY of GOP voters. That means that although it's only 24% (or whatever it is today), if the question were to be settled by a vote of Republican voters, Donald Trump would win the nomination.

So you have committed a logical fallacy of false equivalency in equating a binary question to a question with 16 answers.

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 91):
According to Breitbart (and the poll referenced), Trump hasn't taken a hit from his McCain comments:

Yes, but Breitbart is part of the vast liberal media conspiracy.  
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ken777
Posts: 10047
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 97):
If I was the DNC I would be looking at real progressives that echo Bernie's policies but have a more charisma to them.

While I have a lot of respect for Bernie I do believe that if his comments are front stage in a general election then the GOP would win - simply because people would be convinced that they would be electing a communist.

What Bernie needs to do is to keep attacking the moral issues hard and then walk softly between the convention and the election. After the election is over and a new President is in office he needs to start up again as he does have powerful positions that people will listen to

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 97):
Scott Walker is the candidate who scares me as he has the money behind him.

Until the press starts asking his high school teachers if he was a good student.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 97):
The wall paid for by the Mexican people.

And the Mexican people will say "If we pay for it then we will build it with our labor and those tunnels every 50 yards are irrigation".

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 98):
Which, when ya think about it, is almost unbelievable that it happened over a jocular little whoop at the end of a pep speech!

It came out bad as the camera was up close. There was another shot from the back of the large room (with a lot of people) and at that point it looked like a normal cheer.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 102):
Which is why his 15 minutes of fame is just about up and he's not a Republcian problem either.

He doesn't have to worry as he has the cash to run as an Independent and right now he is building up the following to make that look feasible. All that matters is if he is going to spend 10% of his own cash to run as an independent. I thing his ego might be big enough.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 105):
He doesn't have to worry as he has the cash to run as an Independent and right now he is building up the following to make that look feasible. All that matters is if he is going to spend 10% of his own cash to run as an independent. I thing his ego might be big enough.

I hope he does. I very much hope he does.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1455
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:05 pm

Speaking of ego, this should give everyone a good laugh.

http://www.tsepa.com/this-painting-o...borat-is-the-real-american-gothic/
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:04 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 104):
Supporting marriage equality is a binary issue. You either do or you don't. Assuming that your number of 24% is correct (and it seems believable to me) that means that 76% of likely Democratic voters do support marriage equality. And so in this case, those 24% are a solid minority. That means that if the question were to be settled by a vote of Democratic voters, marriage equality would win.But that is not equivalent to this situation with Donald Trump. In this case, it is not a binary decision but rather a decision split sixteen ways (is it sixteen now? I keep losing track...). And so in the case of Donald Trump, his supporters are a PLURALITY of GOP voters. That means that although it's only 24% (or whatever it is today), if the question were to be settled by a vote of Republican voters, Donald Trump would win the nomination.So you have committed a logical fallacy of false equivalency in equating a binary question to a question with 16 answers.

This twisted logic makes absolutely no sense, and Gallup provided the numbers.

Republicans were asked a straight up question on the binary issue of Trumps comments. Do you or do you not agree with Trumps comments on Illegal Immigration? The Majority said no. You cannot sit here and claim the minority opinion on a single subject of one party means nothing while the minority opinion on a single subject of another party means everything. That's complete and utter nonsense.

Second, we don't know why people support Trump because no one has actually asked why. But here are some other alternatives you seem to want to sweep under the rug:

1. He's a Celebrity.
2. He's an outsider.
3. He doesn't mind telling the press to shove it.
4. He does have a hardline position on illegal immigration.
5. He's fiscally conservative.
6. Shock of all Shocks, he's Socially liberal.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 104):
http://www.wsj.com/video/donald-trum...6-B7B6-44CD-91E2-869242E37EFD.html

The Wall Street Journal --hardly a bastion of liberal anticapitalist sentiment-- disagrees. He is still going quite strong.

Yet this story ignores the poll data which shows Trump tanked as the polling progressed and was in single digits the last day.

[Edited 2015-07-23 17:07:23]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8350
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:32 am

With a divided opposition, Trumps 24% could easily hand him the nomination.

Politico had two very good articles on Trump - this man is a lot more organised and on message than we give him credit for, he is following his Nativist agenda perfectly and has a machine behind him.

His trip to Laredo yesterday was also great theatre - his police guard and black limo gives the impression of a president in waiting. Starved of oxygen, his competition are languishing and irrelevant.

Watch him move on from Immigration to other red meat topics - gun control, pipelines, as he cements his base.

Meanwhile - new unemployment sign on last month were the lowest since November 1973.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 94):

Assuming your 24% figure is correct, I find it unfortunate but believable, but this is an issue just gaining acceptance. Having 24% against gay marriage 10, 20 years from now would be pretty bad.

But 24% supporting Trump after the draw dropping, undeniably crazy and terrible things he's said? Yeah, that's problematic
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 110):
But 24% supporting Trump after the draw dropping, undeniably crazy and terrible things he's said? Yeah, that's problematic

Again, you ignore the facts of the poll. Single digits as it progressed, not problematic.

See ya in a week.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 111):
Again, you ignore the facts of the poll. Single digits as it progressed, not problematic.

Ignoring the facts of the poll? Read reply 92, I already mentioned the last day had him in single digits. The other polls during the same, post remark period did not have him that low so saying he definitely dropped to single digits isn't really clear.

Also, look at the most recent poll, all post-comment. There is a drop, but he's still at 19%

I'm not even arguing that he's gonna fizzle away, I too think that he will. Sooner will be better for the GOP because perhaps you don't agree but many see the 24% he's getting (after the ridiculous, racist things he's been saying) as an embarrassment to the party
 
photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:38 am

Too good to pass up. Afterall, both are corny as hell.



[Edited 2015-07-23 19:39:33]
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 113):

Oh damn, that's funny.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
Ken777
Posts: 10047
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 110):
But 24% supporting Trump after the draw dropping

If the GOP Convention was 2 or 3 weeks away it would be very scary, but that Convention is a long way away. Look at 2012 with their list of candidates that took the lead, only to fall back with someone else taking the lead.

Right now Trump is very strong because of his mouth and how he drives the discussion. The GOP and other candidates simply don't know how to handle him but they may well learn - which might leave Trump as an independent.

In the meantime the Democrats can collect all of the comments Trump has made about the other candidates. The can also get a lot of dumb comments from the other candidates who these days are making some stupid comments just to stay in the game.

All I can think about now are all the books that will be written after the 2016 Election. Trump will write (or got write) his, lottos folks in the media as well as Political Science Profs. Would that be called a gaggle of books or a quagmire of books?
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1455
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:07 am

Ha, what's scary is looking at the other candidates.

I don't think Trump going to run as a independent, i'm thinking he might be on the ticket.

People don't want another Bush. Walker is a joke, and Hilary god bless her, wasn't that great as secretary of state, John Kerry is doing a much better job than she did.

I would be more worried about the Democrats having a strong leader. I like Bernie. Perhaps at one time he wouldn't of had a snowball chance in Hell. I don't know anymore.

lot of people are upset at the supreme court ruling on campaign financing, Now would be a good time to send a message to both the supreme court and corporate america and special interest, that elections can't be bought.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15114
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:33 am

The 2016 US Presidential campaign is a very sad joke.
The massive amounts of money it takes to run just for the party nomination usually means the richest effectively controlling our campaigns and politicians as well as discouraging.
Our 2-party control keeps out any realistic alternative candidates and let's face it, there is very little difference between the 2 parties in many areas. Worse, the party in control also makes major policy decisions, controls appointments in the cabinet and the courts, and huge power from that benefiting their most moneyed special interests.
Major issues like decent paying employment, our environment, affordable and quality education, military spending, immigration, race relation, the war on drugs, policing policies and so on get ignored and instead we see candidates pushing issue irrelevant to the majority like late term abortion, the death penalty, our relationship with Israel.
Our Congress is a joke to most people with horribly low favorability ratings.
Most likely we will see the first really realistic chance for a woman as our President, decades after other major countries have had or still have female executive leaders. Its just too bad it is Hillary Clinton with all of her troubled baggage. Sanders is interesting but has serious flaws and O'Malley pretty much blew it at the Netroots conference and has some issues too.
The Republicans - the leader is a blowhard, phony rich jerk who lost money running casinos who demagogy of Mexicans is just wrong and does nothing but rile up millions fed up with our weak and unenforced immigration laws. Walker and others have target public workers and unions, gave away billions in tax breaks to corporations, the rich and sports teams for venues using money badly needed for education at all levels so decent and affordable. Some like Chris Christie are outright criminals and abusers of power. Others have failed in business (Forina) or sold to the Tea Party with their anti-government views.
If the Republicans can get their act together and get a decent Presidential and VP candidate, they have a good chance of a narrow win in votes and Electorial College votes to bring out a lot of frustrated white male voters for them, and discourage some from voting at all.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8350
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:13 pm

Do not underestimate Trumps appeal to middle aged angry white Fox News watchers.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3810
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 98):
Which, when ya think about it, is almost unbelievable that it happened over a jocular little whoop at the end of a pep speech!

Granted, he was on camera basically telling an elderly person to sit down and shut up... be was see the likes of that from Christie/Trump/etc all day every day, so in retrospect, it's just so odd to see how his campaign fell apart over something so comparatively trivial both them (and especially) now.

The democrats need someone with fire to rally around Bernie is doing a good job right now but does he have the energy to defend his position when he is going to be called a commie and attack back when the lies are inevitably told by the other side.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 99):
It's laughable that the free trade agreements are screwing the American worker when trump himself was a poster child for and advocate of outsourcing.

He has said that the trade deals the US has signed have been crappy and if he had negotiated them then they would be much better. His anti-immigrant stance helps him because those whom have fallen on hard times may not know the real cause that they don't have a job anymore and the immigrants are the scapegoats.

I actually think that is one of the reasons he is surging is because he calls NAFTA and TPP crap because we are losing in these deals.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 105):
Until the press starts asking his high school teachers if he was a good student.

They won't, his backers also control the press. He will probably face the least scrutiny (or close to it) of all candidates.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 105):
While I have a lot of respect for Bernie I do believe that if his comments are front stage in a general election then the GOP would win - simply because people would be convinced that they would be electing a communist.

What Bernie needs to do is to keep attacking the moral issues hard and then walk softly between the convention and the election. After the election is over and a new President is in office he needs to start up again as he does have powerful positions that people will listen to

If enough people think he is communist then that says a lot about the average American voter. It's one thing to disagree but none of his positions are extreme. If he was a real socialist he would be talking about the government forcefully taking over corporations and have more state run industries. He is the left of me on many positions also but I still don't think he is extreme but I'm from Liberal Canada (although our current government is Neocon).
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13220
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:21 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 117):
If the Republicans can get their act together and get a decent Presidential and VP candidate

That's just it though, they **DO** get those candidates.... then proceed to completely ignore them!

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/jhuntsman_nj.jpg


In 2012, they had Jon Huntsman: a governor, a diplomat, an ambassador to freakin' China who speaks fluent Mandarin and understands their social and political culture. The guy had a decent (and thus fairly uneventful) history on taxes, spending, and fiscal policy in general. Fairly conservative socially, but never really scapegoated gays, women, abortion, single mothers, etc. No personal scandals.

And how did the GOP react, in a year which Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, etc all led the field? ....they IGNORED him entirely.

******************************
Now, come 2016, it looks like they're going to do the same thing to John Kasich. This guy is probably the all-around most qualified of the bunch, and is resonating with NONE of the base or even establishment.

Granted, part of that is a result of him waiting to (oddly) late to jump in, considering that he's a virtual unknown outside of the MidWest, or from people who didn't watch FoxNews a decade ago (where he anchored his own program called "HeartLand"), but still.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12889
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 120):
but never really scapegoated gays, women, abortion, single mothers

.. and here you have pinpointed his problem.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:00 pm

People are drawn to Trump because he is very committed to whatever he says. No matter how screwed up it is, he will stick with it, and the worst thing you can be in US politics is wishy washy.

When the Donald speaks, it seems like he really believes what he is saying, no matter how bizarre. He doesn't hesitate, or hedge his bets...he just speaks his mind...and that makes him seem honest...which, if played right, can trump, (so to speak), crazy, and it beats the hell out of boring or hesitant.

What really confuses non Americans about the whole thing is that we're focusing so intently on candidates at all. There is still well over a year until the next election, and these people have already been electioneering since 2012.

When the hell does anybody have time to do the jobs for which they were actually elected?

The UK just had a federal election and the campaign lasted 6 weeks. In the US, it never ends...it's perpetually in an election campaign.

What the hell is going on?
What the...?
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:27 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 108):
Yet this story ignores the poll data which shows Trump tanked as the polling progressed and was in single digits the last day.
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pres...ump-running-strong-iowa-nh-n398401

This one is new information well after his anti-Veteran remarks.

The plurality of GOP voters still support Mr. Trump well over any of the other contenders.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ken777
Posts: 10047
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:42 pm

I'm starting to believe that what will matter as the GOP moves forward (an unusual direction for them) will be the percentage in the polls of people who have an adverse opinion of him. The GOP, IIRC, is at 40%+ having an unfavorable opinion, the Democrats are double that. What is going to really count is the negative reactions that the Independents have and I believe that is increasing.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 123):

Also, a CNN poll for the nation election from 22 - 25 JUL had him leading at 18%, Bush at 15% and Walker at 10%. This poll is well past the McCain remarks. It seems like he hit his highest point thus far right as he made those remarks. I wouldn't necessarily say that these remarks are why he fell a bit but that's probably the case. He is well above the single digits some people are trying to claim he's actually at.

Hopefully he'll stay ahead in the polls for a while and continue to wreak havoc. The way too early primary coverage is a lot more interesting with his shenanigans rather than watching the boring and the crazy do their standard stuff
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 124):

I'm starting to believe that what will matter as the GOP moves forward (an unusual direction for them) will be the percentage in the polls of people who have an adverse opinion of him. The GOP, IIRC, is at 40%+ having an unfavorable opinion, the Democrats are double that. What is going to really count is the negative reactions that the Independents have and I believe that is increasing.

The recent poll is that independents seem to have an equal opinion of both parties. However, more Republicans have an unfavorable opinion of the Republican party than Democrats of the Democratic party.

To Republicans, I would say this: This is your party and this is your party's brand.

Are you sure you really want to stay a Republican?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13220
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:50 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 122):
People are drawn to Trump because he is very committed to whatever he says. No matter how screwed up it is, he will stick with it

Which is what astonishes me:
We (and by we, I mean much of the Western and Arab worlds) are STILL suffering the fallout from being led by a Republican imbecile who committed to something, no matter how inane and inaccurate it was, and stuck to it in the face of all facts.
Why would they do that to themselves again?!
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8350
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:22 am

History repeats itself. Plenty of examples of this, but not usually so close together in time.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:32 pm

I'm afraid Donald Trump does run as 3rd party it will do to Jeb Bush what Ross Perot did to his father Bush 41 in 1992.

President Hillary Clinton...

http://www.firstladies.org/blog/wp-c...0/hillary-clinton-as-president.jpg
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 129):
I'm afraid Donald Trump does run as 3rd party it will do to Jeb Bush what Ross Perot did to his father Bush 41 in 1992.

President Hillary Clinton...

Works for me...
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 129):

I'm afraid Donald Trump does run as 3rd party it will do to Jeb Bush what Ross Perot did to his father Bush 41 in 1992.

President Hillary Clinton...

Works for me. I'm afraid Trump will lead us into a nuclear war.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8358
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:31 pm

If Trump is still running by the time Missouri has primaries, he has my vote. An easy target for the Democrats. I may regret the words if Clinton implodes before the general and doesn't get the nomination and Trump gets it but for now, the thought of having Clinton or even Sanders (based on the latest CNN poll) sweeping the floor with him is too good to let go.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 120):
Now, come 2016, it looks like they're going to do the same thing to John Kasich. This guy is probably the all-around most qualified of the bunch, and is resonating with NONE of the base or even establishment.

Truly is a shame that he isn't getting any good publicity. He has done a whole bunch for Ohio and has shown a pattern of pragmatism and ability to compromise to get things done, which is what running a state/country/government is all about.

As to the rest of your post, it is a shame Huntsman like Kasich wasn't more highly regarded, but the folks you listed never really had a fighting chance to win the nomination. Romney pretty much rolled in the votes with marginal challenges in certain states. I find it hard to say that Romney was unqualified for the presidency relative to many that run on both sides.

I also would argue that not choosing the most qualified candidate is not just a Republican problem. People gravitate to people that resonate with their ideas many on both sides do not resonate with complex ideas of economics, running government properly, social policy etc... All they hear is ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE, GUNS, WAR. Then form an opinion without any real consideration other than the "popular opinions" that are pushed by the media they consume, which would be anything from AM/FM radio to MTV and everything in between.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8358
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 133):
As to the rest of your post, it is a shame Huntsman like Kasich wasn't more highly regarded, but the folks you listed never really had a fighting chance to win the nomination.

On the current field I have gravitated more towards Kasich. A Kasich-Hunstman ticket would be something to reckon. Alas, Kasich is not conservative enough, though the GOP might be wise to keep Kasich relevant if they're to carry Ohio.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 134):
though the GOP might be wise to keep Kasich relevant if they're to carry Ohio.

His polling number are trending up, though still 3-6%, but that's certainly better than 0-1%. I hope that trend continues into next year. I think he would be a strong candidate, and I think he would have a real possibility of winning the presidency if nominated.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10411
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 120):
That's just it though, they **DO** get those candidates.... then proceed to completely ignore them!

And what is funny (or sad depending on your viewpoint) is that the "right wing" often claims that the media (I'm sorry, I mean "main stream media" or MSM, which is anything other than "right wing media") over-hype and distort the news and the stories they present, that they distort the truth. Which is laughable when you look at the hyping that goes along with "their" media and with many (definitely not all) of the current and recent past candidates.


Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 120):
Now, come 2016, it looks like they're going to do the same thing to John Kasich. This guy is probably the all-around most qualified of the bunch, and is resonating with NONE of the base or even establishment.

Granted, part of that is a result of him waiting to (oddly) late to jump in, considering that he's a virtual unknown outside of the MidWest, or from people who didn't watch FoxNews a decade ago (where he anchored his own program called "HeartLand"), but still.

Seriously, many Republican's claim to detest the idea of polls and candidates working to them, but for most that is all that matter to them. And the candidates themselves are often seen to be grandstanding and doing what they can to get into the media limelight and stay there. And the worst part of this is that apparently many in the Republican base base seem to want this and favor this method of selection. Just look at what is going on with Trump and what occurred during the last election. So many candidates go until they implode. They say everything they can to differentiate themselves and often to get media/Republican base attention.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
LMP737
Topic Author
Posts: 6032
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 134):
On the current field I have gravitated more towards Kasich. A Kasich-Hunstman ticket would be something to reckon. Alas, Kasich is not conservative enough, though the GOP might be wise to keep Kasich relevant if they're to carry Ohio.

Kasich will never get the nomination. Expanding Medicaid and there by helping poor people in Ohio is right up there with burning the American flag with the GOP.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1455
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:21 pm

we joke about the Republicans becoming a Kamikaze Club. Suddenly it's not funny now that Trump has a big lead. Somebody already said that they are worried about him leading us into a nuclear war. I have been thinking that for a while. Glad i'm not alone thinking this.

[Edited 2015-07-27 16:23:21]

[Edited 2015-07-27 16:24:01]
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22318
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:07 am

I am wondering if Trump had a pow wow with Adleson and Koch Bros. to get the Republicans to look as insane as possible so when the one annointed by the 1% does come along, s/he will be saying all the right things and sound sane by comparison to Trump and Walker and Cruz and the rest.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:36 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 123):

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pres...ump-running-strong-iowa-nh-n398401

This one is new information well after his anti-Veteran remarks.

The plurality of GOP voters still support Mr. Trump well over any of the other contenders.

LOL. You're comparing a state poll to a national poll. And no, it wasn't well after his remarks.

Did you even read the article?

The polls were conducted July 14-21 - so before and after Trump's controversial comments belittling John McCain's war record on July 18. And they suggest the comments didn't affect Trump in Iowa (he was at 16 percent before the comments and 18 percent after), but they did hurt him in New Hampshire (26 percent before, 14 percent after).

[Edited 2015-07-27 18:42:03]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 140):
The polls were conducted July 14-21 - so before and after Trump's controversial comments belittling John McCain's war record on July 18. And they suggest the comments didn't affect Trump in Iowa (he was at 16 percent before the comments and 18 percent after), but they did hurt him in New Hampshire (26 percent before, 14 percent after).
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/politics/cnn-poll-presidential-race/

Had enough denial yet? He's not at 28% but he's still ahead.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 141):
Had enough denial yet? He's not at 28% but he's still ahead.

Sorry man, you gotta give up the narrative. Its not working. He's tanking and you should move on.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8358
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 142):

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 141):
Had enough denial yet? He's not at 28% but he's still ahead.

Sorry man, you gotta give up the narrative. Its not working. He's tanking and you should move on.

The latest poll from New Hampshire, by Monmouth, has Trump leading by 12 at 24%. Averaging all the latest polls in the state, Trump leads by 2.8% over Bush. At the national level, Trump leads by 4.5% with 18.2%.

Considering how crowded the field is, it's still a respectable lead, especially if it's still holding after all the comments.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22318
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:07 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 143):
The latest poll from New Hampshire, by Monmouth, has Trump leading by 12 at 24%. Averaging all the latest polls in the state, Trump leads by 2.8% over Bush. At the national level, Trump leads by 4.5% with 18.2%.

I can't remember where I saw it but the majority of support for Trump comes from uneducated, lower class and midwest Republicans and not the country as a whole. So, there is that.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
I am happy with Trump. I like his amateurism.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 144):
I can't remember where I saw it but the majority of support for Trump comes from uneducated, lower class and midwest Republicans and not the country as a whole. So, there is that

Except New Hampshire, obviously an important early primary where he's leading is hardly Midwest.
 
bhill
Posts: 1801
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 139):
I am wondering if Trump had a pow wow with Adleson and Koch Bros.

Trump is already a billionaire...and I doubt the Koch Brothers like that...he would not be beholden to them...By the way Doc...Trump IS a nuclear war...
Carpe Pices
 
bhill
Posts: 1801
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 108):
6. Shock of all Shocks, he's Socially liberal.

Uhhhh...I don't think so..give me an example. While you are at it, show me any billionaires that became billionaires, that is making their fortune, as a social liberal.

He may be "morally liberal"..ask his ex wives...but making tons of money by spending it on society does not happen. Oh sure, AFTER folks make their riches, like Gates, et. al., but by then wealth at that level has it's own momentum. Perhaps the closer to the grave they get, they do a Scrooge turnabout....
Carpe Pices
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:29 pm

 
Ken777
Posts: 10047
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Trump: The Gift That Keeps On Giving.

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 142):
Sorry man, you gotta give up the narrative. Its not working. He's tanking and you should move on.

Right now I think we need to wait for the first debate. Trump "may" take a nose dive if any of the competition can deliver some strong lines against him. Or Trump may send some of the competition scurrying for cover. You know his speech writers are preparing some vicious one liners to take on every "contender'.

Trump's problems are generally small to medium - like his screaming at a woman who wanted to use a breast pump, screaming that she was "disgusting".

Quote:
"He got up, his face got red, he shook his finger at me and he screamed, 'You're disgusting, you're disgusting,' and he ran out of there,"
http://abcnews.go.com/beta/Politics/...reast-milk-front/story?id=32764996

Good way to impress the young (18 - 30) women.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: art, DNDTUF, tommy1808, ZB052 and 83 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos