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DLFREEBIRD
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Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:35 pm

Scott Walker Says His Presidential Bid is God's Plan:

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has sent an email to activists declaring that his presidential run “is God’s plan for me.” “My relationship with God drives every major decision in my life,” starts the note, which is clearly designed to appeal to Religious Right voters who make up a major part of the GOP base vote, particularly in the early primary states Iowa and South Carolina.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...ays-his-presidential-bid-gods-plan

The last president to think they were God's Plan for America was George Bush.
I don't know if America can take another chosen one.

I can see his campaigning Ad now " WE ARE ON A MISSION FROM GOD"
dressed like the Blues Brothers.


Trump starting to look pretty good, eh? what? you don't want a theocratic leader?
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
God's Plan for America

He didn't say that, at least not based on the link you provided.

"God's plan for me" and "God's plan for America" are two very different things.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
The last president to think they were God's Plan for America was George Bush.
I don't know if America can take another chosen one.

Sounds pretty similar to:

"It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God's spirit beckon me. It was there that I felt called to a higher purpose -- His purpose."

- Barack Obama, National Prayer Breakfast on Feb. 6, 2009

"There was only one thing I could do, and that was to have faith in God's plan for me."

- Michelle Obama, Tuskegee University, May 12, 2015
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
A320ajm
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
“My relationship with God drives every major decision in my life,”

Surely this should put off voters? Would you trust someone in power who looked to 'God' for every decision?
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 3):
Surely this should put off voters?

You'd be surprised...

Plus, the primaries are before the actual election. I'm sure statements like these only help not hurt his chances, at least in the primary
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:51 pm

What a load of shit, religion should be banned from politics, if anyone actually believes messages like that from politicians they're dumber than a stump. Happily in Norway and in NZ religion doesn't come into politics except for a tiny minority who vote for Christian parties. Mainstream politicians aren't expected to be religious, people simply don't care.

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 3):
Would you trust someone in power who looked to 'God' for every decision?

They voted for Bush twice, that should be answer enough for you.
 
photopilot
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:35 pm

Oh frick, another idiot who believes in magic men in the sky wants to become President. Will the idiocy never stop?
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
"God's plan for me" and "God's plan for America" are two very different things.


Did you read the email he sent? Walker states that God's calling or plan is for him to ban abortions and same-sex marriage so elect me for president.

I'm a Christian, and he's insulting me. I don't believe for a minutes that God talking to him. He proved who he was when he decided to take Koch Brothers money and give tax breaks to the 1% He told us who he was when faced with a budget crunch and decided to go after teachers. I'm so tired of people like Scott Walker using Christianity to try to get elected. IMO he sold out long ago, and doesn't have a soul for God to talk to.

[Edited 2015-07-26 15:40:52]
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 7):
I'm a Christian, and he's insulting me. I don't believe for a minutes that God talking to him. He proved who he was when he decided to take Koch Brothers money and give tax breaks to the 1% He told us who he was when faced with a budget crunch and decided to go after teachers. I'm so tired of people like Scott Walker using Christianity to try to get elected. IMO he sold out long ago, and doesn't have a soul for God to talk to.

I could say the same about Obama, so don't get your panties in a wad. This thread is nothing but an excuse for insults, and lacking any depth of knowledge in the actual issues - as exemplified in your post by the bumper-sticker slogans of "Koch Brothers!" and "the 1%!".

This will be my last post in this thread.
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WarRI1
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
This will be my last post in this thread.

Be still my beating heart, for a moment I thought you said your last post period.  


I agree, this injecting the name of God into politics is madness. Is this not what has gotten us into countless wars over the centuries? Just look at the near East these days, once again they are invoking Gods name to commit atrocities. Is this what we need here, or any other so called civilized society?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:02 am

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 3):
Surely this should put off voters? Would you trust someone in power who looked to 'God' for every decision?

Uh Hi. Welcome to America. Is this your first time? We are a proud christian nation that welcomes the money changers into the temple in order to put the screws to the poor, just like our lord and savior Jesus did!  
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:49 am

So, if it happens that one of these people who are carrying out "God's Plan" loses either the primary or the election, what's the excuse? God isn't all powerful? God picked someone else at the last minute?

This is worse than a casino; at least you can win big in one. With the whole "God plan" there's never any winning. If they win an election, it was God's plan. If they don't, "God works in mysterious ways".
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):

If they even confront it, they'll probably say something like God wanted them all to run and they'll all make the country better/contribute to something even if they don't win. Who knows.

I have no problem with Christians running, obviously, and I don't necessarily have a problem with even really religious ones. But the pandering is sickening... keep it to yourself. If I was their target audience, I'd be insulted... if I could read minds, I think I would find that a lot of these candidates are just playing the God card and expecting Christians to mindlessly flock to them. Like I said, it's insulting
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:45 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
I could say the same about Obama, so don't get your panties in a wad.

Mr. Obama has always been quiet about his faith. Oh yes, he's talked about it, but not incessantly and not to gain votes.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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LAX772LR
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Oh frick, another idiot who believes in magic men in the sky wants to become President. Will the idiocy never stop?

I do often wonder which will happen first: an openly-gay nominee, or an atheist one?

A rather tough call.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
“My relationship with God drives every major decision in my life,”

Didn't GWB say that? And it was all Obama's fault.

Think about it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:26 am

Michelle Bachman too!
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:44 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Mr. Obama has always been quiet about his faith. Oh yes, he's talked about it, but not incessantly and not to gain votes.

And because he's been so quiet there's even doubts as to whether he even IS Christian or this secret Muslim allied with Al Qaeda ready to impose Sharia law.

He keeps his faith quiet, Republicans fault him for not being Christian enough (and maybe not Christian at all); if he pandered to religious folks, Republicans would fault him for being hypocritical and not inclusive enough.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
sccutler
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):

What a load of shit, religion should be banned from politics

Banning a candidate from expressing religious or spiritual views?

What other utterances should be prohibited? And, is there any reason why candidates for office should be the only people whose speech should be regulated?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):
Republicans fault him for not being Christian enough

Whom?
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us330
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:29 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 14):
I do often wonder which will happen first: an openly-gay nominee, or an atheist one?

Openly-gay. Atheists aren't nearly as well organized politically.

Religious institutions in the U.S. are often community pillars and a hub for social gatherings and interactions. Just look at the members of Congress--even the most liberal Democrat often has some mention of a religious affiliation in his bio/background.
 
photopilot
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:29 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 7):
Walker states that God's calling or plan is for him to ban abortions and same-sex marriage so elect me for president.

And what happens when his "god" tells him to finish what the Crusades started and eliminate all Muslims from the face of the earth. Does he press the Big-Red-Button!!!!   
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:44 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
- Barack Obama, National Prayer Breakfast on Feb. 6, 2009

"There was only one thing I could do, and that was to have faith in God's plan for me."

I think he was checking off the requisite christian religious references for the knuckle draggers, not that it mattered since they all think he's izlahmick intent on instituting Sharia law. 
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scamp
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FG4iIA8XIg

This short video says a lot about the whole looney toon, right wing ridiculousness re: "God" telling anyone to run for president. Or, for that matter, "God" telling anyone to do anything. Just replace the word "Bachmann" with any nut bag that chooses to "go there."
If it pisses off the right, I'm all for it.
 
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bgm
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Banning a candidate from expressing religious or spiritual views?

Religion has absolutely no place in politics. Period.

When you start using an imaginary figure in the sky as your justification to do terrible deeds, that is not a President you want in power.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Banning a candidate from expressing religious or spiritual views?

Yes religion should not be a part of the political process. It's not necessary, the President/PM/Monarch or whatever head of state a nation has is there to serve that nation, not god.

Quoting us330 (Reply 19):
Religious institutions in the U.S. are often community pillars and a hub for social gatherings and interactions. Just look at the members of Congress--even the most liberal Democrat often has some mention of a religious affiliation in his bio/background.

I'm so happy that this kind of mumbo jumbo is not a significant part of either country I've lived in.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):
Republicans fault him for not being Christian enough (and maybe not Christian at all);

Would it really matter if he was muslim? What faith a head of state may or may not be shoudn't matter, religion should be private and remain behind the closed doors of your church and home.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):
Republicans fault him for not being Christian enough (and maybe not Christian at all);

Would it really matter if he was muslim? What faith a head of state may or may not be shoudn't matter, religion should be private and remain behind the closed doors of your church and home.

As you can tell by the Republican primary and their pandering to the religious folk, not being a Christian is enough to be attacked left and right and question your patriotism (because the "US is one nation under God" with a motto of "In God we trust").

Being Muslim = extremist bent of imposing Sharia law
Being Atheist = linked to socialism and communism
Being Jewish = no attack at the moment but mostly due to the risk of being called airliners.net's favorite: anti-Semitic.

I fear if I ever run for state or federal office. Being an atheist and not basing my beliefs on religion is enough to not be considered, even if I promised everyone $100. If you were to add that to take office there's no legal requirement to finish with "So help me God" nor to swear on a Bible, if I were to do any of these there would be a field day questioning what I stand for.

So while religion should be a personal issue, just like paparazzi stalk stars, politicians will look to make it as public as possible.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
Would it really matter if he was muslim?

It matters to the main stream media and, in turn, the loudest portion of America: right wingers. They still hold ALL Muslims accountable for ALL terrorist acts. They still believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists and must be stopped at all costs.

We have been on a road trip for the last two weeks but it has given me time to think. I can clearly see three distinct groups on the right: Republicans, conservatives, and right wingers/tea people. The loudest and most dangerous and most influential are the right wingers.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 25):
because the "US is one nation under God" with a motto of "In God we trust").

Both invented in the 50s
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:43 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
Both invented in the 50s

I know that. Try telling that to a conservative, though. They would have you think that the US just popped out of existence because God.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Tugger
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
Both invented in the 50s

I know that. Try telling that to a conservative, though. They would have you think that the US just popped out of existence because God.

This is always something that drives me nuts and I have had to explain to a few people. The USA is most certainly NOT under God, it is under people! Specifically the many citizens of the nation. God does not make any decisions for the nation, nor is the nation founded on (or under) God (beyond the reference to "nature's god" in the Declaration of Independence). It is the people that make the decisions, that elect the leaders, none of who are "ordained by god" to lead in this country.

Now people individually may decide they desire or need guidance from "their god" however they may envision that entity to be, but then that person must be the one that acts, not God.

Some think I sound arrogant or it makes our nation appear arrogant but I think just the opposite basically.

Tugg
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sccutler
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 23):

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Banning a candidate from expressing religious or spiritual views?

Religion has absolutely no place in politics. Period.

When you start using an imaginary figure in the sky as your justification to do terrible deeds, that is not a President you want in power.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
Banning a candidate from expressing religious or spiritual views?

Yes religion should not be a part of the political process. It's not necessary, the President/PM/Monarch or whatever head of state a nation has is there to serve that nation, not god.

Reasonable positions to have - and absolutely consistent with the essential separation of church and state. But, surely, we are not advocating that candidates be legally precluded from expressing their views?

Or, would you prefer that candidates keep their views a secret, thus (potentially) yielding an elected person whose views are antithetical to yours, but you did not know it because they were precluded from telling you.

I like to have candidates telling exactly what they believe and how they make decisions, so I can (1) consider their positions and views in deciding whether to vote for them, and (2) call them to account for why they did not behave or govern consistent with what they said when campaigning.
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OA412
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 3):
Surely this should put off voters? Would you trust someone in power who looked to 'God' for every decision?

Boy, you ain't never been to the United States have ya'? 
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Uh Hi. Welcome to America. Is this your first time? We are a proud christian nation that welcomes the money changers into the temple in order to put the screws to the poor, just like our lord and savior Jesus did!

  
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:21 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 30):
I like to have candidates telling exactly what they believe and how they make decisions, so I can (1) consider their positions and views in deciding whether to vote for them, and (2) call them to account for why they did not behave or govern consistent with what they said when campaigning.

Many of us have been doing this for years and get no response. I am constantly asking if we are a Christian nation, why do we let people starve and die in the street with such glee and hatred? The only response I get is something about damn liberals taxing every damn thing.

If an elected official is religious, fine. What I do not want, and will vote against, are candidates who decide for the rest of us, based on their religion, what laws are right for us. Excuse me, but you are not me and my church taught me that forcing your religion on others is bad.

If I can work "blue" for just a moment, I love one current meme circulating around the interwebs regarding religion goes something like: Religion should be like a penis. It is great to have one, it is great to do with in private what you will but when you pull it out in public and start waving around, that is where we have problems.
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ltbewr
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:54 am

What drives me nuts is a lot of these 'Christians' are
1) Strong supporters of Jewish dominated Israel, a country that has killed, forced into exile, or holds captive in their territories with violence many 1000's of Christian Palestinians. Yes, some Christian Palestinians have been supportive of terrorism against Jews and Israel, but this more over the brutal occupation of what they consider their homes.
2) Their hatred of the poor with wanting to destroy all kinds of welfare programs, prevent affordable housing, destroying decent paying jobs in bad trade deals
3) Their hatred of the sick - wanting to end the ACA with no replacement
4) Their hatred of the environment including ignoring Global Warming / Climate change
5) Their love of violence and war
6) Their love of guns and no regulations as to access or public use of them.
7) Their love of the rich, cutting their taxes but not that of the middle and lower classes.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
it is great to do with in private what you will but when you pull it out in public and start waving around, that is where we have problems.

I don't care if you wave it around; it's when you shove down my throat that we have a problem (using figurative speech...).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):
What a load of shit, religion should be banned from politics,

Careful. You could just define the entire opposition party as a religion and then you have tyranny. In the United States, the policy is that religion alone may not be used as a justification for public policy; there needs to be a secular argument for a given policy.

Now what I could support would be sanctioning elected officials who introduce bills that are blatantly unconstitutional on their face. For example in 2012 or 2013 the North Carolina GOP tried to introduce a bill making Christianity the official religion of the state of North Carolina. That sort of thing should, IMO, be an impeachable offense. And impeachment should be done not by the legislature that is controlled by a party, but by an independent judicial entity.

You know I have no love for religion, but you can't ban thought.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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us330
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:10 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Now what I could support would be sanctioning elected officials who introduce bills that are blatantly unconstitutional on their face.

What is the standard that you suggest be used in evaluating whether to sanction an elected official? With respect to bill introduction, it's very tricky, because you could argue that such an action is protected speech, especially since we have a system of checks and balances to prevent such laws from never actually being implemented.

You could try arguing that it is a misappropriation of taxpayer resources, but again, how far does this go? You'd probably have to demonstrate some sort of intent by the bill sponsor to deliberately waste resources.

I'd be against such actions because it reveals to the public who the true idiots in politics are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
but by an independent judicial entity

Just how independent are the judicial entities these days? Supreme Courts can't do a thing lest they be removed from office by voters. And if they have life tenure, odds are many of them will place their beliefs before their thoughts.

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
especially since we have a system of checks and balances to prevent such laws from never actually being implemented.

Except that system of checks and balances is inefficient. A court ruling declared that money is free speech (hence, he who has the most cash gets to win under the influence of those who bought him). When the new "religious freedom" bills come into play, we can argue that it's protected under the 1st amendment (because all religions call for discrimination against those who are not like you so I should be free to do so /sarcasm ) but where is the line drawn? This notion of a for-profit business, open for the public, to pick and choose who its customers are is not 1st amendment nor is it religious freedom. And because there's no law or amendment that protects LGBT folks from discrimination, the judicial system, even though it very well knows the bills' intent is to discriminate, will probably not strike down such laws because there's nothing that says they're protected.

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
who the true idiots in politics are.

Sadly, even the nuttiest of idiots have supporters and, in enough numbers or with the correct letter after the name, will always be reelected.

Examples?

Roy Moore of Alabama (refusing to follow federal court rulings)
Ted Cruz of Texas (least likable senator)
Mike Huckabee of Arkansas (the recent holocaust comment)
Steve King of Iowa (illegal children are strong because they carry sacks of drugs)
Donald Trump (leading GOP polls)
Tom Cotton of Arkansas (Iranians already control Tehran, not to mention the letter sent)
Sarah Palin of Alaska (self explanatory)
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
You could try arguing that it is a misappropriation of taxpayer resources, but again, how far does this go?

Introducing legislation that makes a holy book the law of the land or making a holy book the official book of the state or shooting gays on sight. Just a few examples. I thought he was pretty clear: unconstitutional on it's face.
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A320ajm
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):
They voted for Bush twice, that should be answer enough for you.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Uh Hi. Welcome to America. Is this your first time? We are a proud christian nation that welcomes the money changers into the temple in order to put the screws to the poor, just like our lord and saviour Jesus did!

Haha. Good answers. It was more a throw a way comment. Being an atheist, I find this type of statements bewildering.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 31):
oy, you ain't never been to the United States have ya'?

Been 3 times actually. When I was there in October last year my girlfriend (who is also an atheist) and I got collared by a guy on the street telling us we need to repent and save ourselves before judgement. We were desperately waiting for the lights to change to cross - it was almost worth risking that old silly rule you have of jaywalking  
To be honest, the whole thing was quite scary. I felt very on edge and uncomfortable, and had even started looking for escape routes etc.

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
sccutler
Posts: 5840
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
Many of us have been doing this for years and get no response. I am constantly asking if we are a Christian nation, why do we let people starve and die in the street with such glee and hatred? The only response I get is something about damn liberals taxing every damn thing.

Non sequitur. One does not directly relate to the other (although I am sure there are people who equate the two). Anyone who hates starving people and expresses lien their death is simply a psychopath.

My experience has been that true Christian souls expressed their faith through their actions, and not through proclamations. Their satisfaction comes in having helped a person in need, not in securing recognition for so doing. Note well: there are many such people, but for reasons which should be self-evident, you don't hear much about them.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
If an elected official is religious, fine. What I do not want, and will vote against, are candidates who decide for the rest of us, based on their religion, what laws are right for us. Excuse me, but you are not me and my church taught me that forcing your religion on others is bad.

The essence of the essential separation between state, and the church.

By the same token, every elected official makes decisions about "what laws are right for us," and whether their reasoning for so doing this founded in religious belief, sound reasoning or delusional visions, it is ultimately up to that elected representative's constituents to decide whether his or her actions are suitable for the electorate.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
If I can work "blue" for just a moment, I love one current meme circulating around the interwebs regarding religion goes something like: Religion should be like a penis. It is great to have one, it is great to do with in private what you will but when you pull it out in public and start waving around, that is where we have problems.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
Their hatred of the poor with wanting to destroy all kinds of welfare programs, prevent affordable housing, destroying decent paying jobs in bad trade deals
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
Their hatred of the sick - wanting to end the ACA with no replacement

Another non sequitur; these two ought not to be tied together, because the ACA does not provide insurance (it is a tax and a mandate), and has probably served two place healthcare further beyond the reach of at least as many people as those whom it is felt. It has certainly driven the cost of care up.

One can acknowledge the need for a cure, without embracing the failed one that has been enacted.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):

What drives me nuts is a lot of these 'Christians' are
1) Strong supporters of Jewish dominated Israel, a country that has killed, forced into exile, or holds captive in their territories with violence many 1000's of Christian Palestinians. Yes, some Christian Palestinians have been supportive of terrorism against Jews and Israel, but this more over the brutal occupation of what they consider their homes.
2) Their hatred of the poor with wanting to destroy all kinds of welfare programs, prevent affordable housing, destroying decent paying jobs in bad trade deals
3) Their hatred of the sick - wanting to end the ACA with no replacement
4) Their hatred of the environment including ignoring Global Warming / Climate change
5) Their love of violence and war
6) Their love of guns and no regulations as to access or public use of them.
7) Their love of the rich, cutting their taxes but not that of the middle and lower classes.

Hyperbole and stereotype much?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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seb146
Posts: 22318
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 40):
One does not directly relate to the other

"Christian" politicians do all the time. They are doing it again with Planned Parenthood. PP, to them, is only abortions. However, the vast majority of their services is prenatal care, female cancer screening, and low cost health care.

The "Christian" right hates people who work but can not afford their ("Christian" right) perks like living space, food, and health care.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 40):
these two ought not to be tied together,

Did Jesus ask for Lazarus' health card or demand he take high cost for-profit health care? Did Jesus demand insurance from leapers?

What the "Christians" on the right are saying is: if you can't pay for health care (or food or housing) you need to die because Jesus and Bible.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 40):
Hyperbole and stereotype much?

Actually, it is spot on, sadly.

I have been on state run health care for a few years, both before ACA and after. I can tell you that the level of care I receive is the same. I have a plan that helps pay for my meds. A huge majority of us actually don't mind paying something toward our health care. But, we were scared that we would be dropped from any plan and could not afford alternate plans. Now that we do not have to worry about preexisting conditions, we don't have that stress. ACA is not perfect. Single payer and taking away for-profit status from some insurance providers would be better. If people want (and can afford) higher premiums, they should. But, the majority of us who can not afford that should not be punished because this is a "Christian" nation.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
sccutler
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
The "Christian" right hates people who work but can not afford their ("Christian" right) perks like living space, food, and health care.

Who are you talking to?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):

What the "Christians" on the right are saying is: if you can't pay for health care (or food or housing) you need to die because Jesus and Bible.

Where do you get this stuff?

I admit, I am not the best at church attendance, but last I checked, they were pretty aggressive about food bank, housing assistance for families in crisis, building clinics, stuff like that.

Then there's the Rotary Club - which is not a Christian organization, but (in my club, as it works out) pretty much all Christians (and yes, we open with a prayer). Always doing silly stuff like ending polio and helping people in need, while having essentially zero administrative expense because everything is done by volunteers.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Now that we do not have to worry about preexisting conditions, we don't have that stress.

A good aspect of ACA (although, if you understand how insurance works, you can also understand why the system as a whole remains doomed to fail).

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Single payer and taking away for-profit status from some insurance providers would be better.

Might well. be. Our local system is, in effect, "single payor."

What always gets to me is, if single payor is the answer, why didn't they just do that instead of this massive tax-suck? It's not like they were looking for the crossover votes to pass the bill, or were fretting about a veto.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 42):
Who are you talking to?

These politicians who claim God is speaking to and through them. The Sara Palins and Scott Walkers and Mike Huckabees of the world.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 42):
if single payor is the answer, why didn't they just do that instead of this massive tax-suck?

Republicans (read: far right wingers) blocked it. They didn't want it and didn't want to even mention it. It was out of the question from the start for them.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 42):
last I checked, they were pretty aggressive about food bank, housing assistance for families in crisis, building clinics, stuff like that.

Your average lay person, yes. Leaders, not so much. Again, I point to "Christians" like Huckabee, Palin, Walker, etc. who insist that, as a Christian nation, we do not need to help anyone, just work hard until we die. That is not how my version of the Bible reads and that is why I run as fast as I can from any and all candidates who claim to speak for God.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
Ted Cruz of Texas (least likable senator)

Which is his brand. It remains to be seen how successful his anti-establishment bluster will be outside of irrational, angst-ridden primaries. Especially in his home state, where apparently there are enough people who believe that the government is trying to take over Texas that the governor of said state gave their lunacy credence.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
Mike Huckabee of Arkansas (the recent holocaust comment)

Attention-seeking behavior. Ignore him. He's done. You knew he was done when he came out in support of the Duggar family.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
Donald Trump (leading GOP polls)

The one guy on your list that I believe is truly nuts. At the same time as much grief and face-palming that he's causing, he's doing the GOP favor by taking attention away from the bottom feeders in an overly-crowded primary field.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
Sarah Palin of Alaska (self explanatory)

Is she stupid? Perhaps, but mostly for believing that it was a good idea to abandon the long term prospects of her political career for celebrity which temporarily paid a lot better. She's the has-been pop star who will relegated to the lounge rooms in Reno. At the end of the day serious attention whore who injects herself into just about every conversation by using playground antics to get people to talk about her.

[Edited 2015-07-29 06:00:52]
 
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seb146
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:48 am

An interesting piece on Scott Walker. Very dangerous, indeed...

John Dean (former Nixon staffer) said Walker is "more Nixonian than even Richard Nixon himself.." yikes...

http://www.thenation.com/article/get...he-ruthless-politics-of-walkerism/

He also gerrymandered assembly districts so that, even with 175,000 vote majority, Democrats in Wisconsin have only 39 seats to Republican's 60 seats. In other words: the majority spoke but Walker's party is in control.
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kann123air
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:55 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
What drives me nuts is a lot of these 'Christians' are
1) Strong supporters of Jewish dominated Israel, a country that has killed, forced into exile, or holds captive in their territories with violence many 1000's of Christian Palestinians. Yes, some Christian Palestinians have been supportive of terrorism against Jews and Israel, but this more over the brutal occupation of what they consider their homes.
2) Their hatred of the poor with wanting to destroy all kinds of welfare programs, prevent affordable housing, destroying decent paying jobs in bad trade deals
3) Their hatred of the sick - wanting to end the ACA with no replacement
4) Their hatred of the environment including ignoring Global Warming / Climate change
5) Their love of violence and war
6) Their love of guns and no regulations as to access or public use of them.
7) Their love of the rich, cutting their taxes but not that of the middle and lower classes.

Living in a very red and and christian state like Arkansas, I find this to be very true.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 40):
Hyperbole and stereotype much?

Itbewr was dead on. Sure, there are exceptions who don't believe in everything he said, but I haven't come across a Christian Republican who believes in, say, the ACA or gun control.

Amrit
Going for great
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting kann123air (Reply 46):
Living in a very red and and christian state like Arkansas, I find this to be very true.

I'm thankful that I live in a blue dot in the red sea that Missouri has become, but I wouldn't be surprised that out in the countryside this is also the norm. Heck, my county is significantly red, but being so close to STL, there's moderation.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
sccutler
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:30 pm

Most revealing.

I look forward to hearing more from those who better know how to think, and (most importantly), how to tell others to think.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Scott Walker Presidential Bid Is God's Plan

Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 48):

Most revealing.

I look forward to hearing more from those who better know how to think, and (most importantly), how to tell others to think.


It's a good laugh for sure. It's truly astonishing what people are willing reveal in a forum.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

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