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wingman
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Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:58 pm

http://www.grindtv.com/wildlife/hunt...esota-dentist/#pLzXjgKP3W2y8li7.97

This story caught my eye yesterday and at first the loser in question was mistakenly identified as a Spaniard. Today it emerges that the killer was a well known trophy hunter from Minnesota. It's virtually impossible to contain my anger at such a pathetic endeavor. I don't mind hunting one bit and have special respect for hunters that consume what they catch to feed themselves and their families. But this guy, to me, is on par with animal abusers. I think it must take a man with exceptionally low self-confidence to lure a majestic animal out of a protected park by tying a carcass to the back of a jeep. And then he shoots it with a bow and arrow and let's it suffer for hours until he changes up his weapon of choice to shoot it dead. In my book this dentist deserves the exact same ending.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:28 pm

The referred article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-revealed-as-American-dentist.html
says:

Quote:

In a statement, Mr Palmer told Colorado News, Mr Palmer said the authorities had yet to contact him and added he did not know the lion he had killed was a "local favourite".

"In early July, I was in Zimbabwe on a bow hunting trip for big game. I hired several professional guides and they secured all proper permits. To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted,"

And the guide says:

Quote:
"It was a magnificent, mature lion. We did not know it was well-known lion. I had a licence for my client to shoot a lion with a bow and arrow in the area where it was shot,"

Yet Zimbabwe National Parks says:

Quote:
"Both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt."

Classic "he said, she said" situation.

The dentist Palmer is not squeaky clean:

Quote:

In 2008, court records show, he pleaded guilty to making a false statement to federal wildlife officials concerning the exact location of the slaying of a black bear during a guided hunt in Wisconsin. He was sentenced to a year probation.

Seems social media is gonna take his business down, we get photos of people bringing stuffed lions to his doorstep as a memorial to Cecil:

http://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9/status/626125492446433280/photo/1

Dude deserves to be taken down, IMHO.
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Mir
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Dude deserves to be taken down, IMHO.

If it was him, yes, permit or not. Last I read, we don't know for sure that it was. And it does bother me more than a little bit that if it wasn't him who killed the lion, he's now had his business ruined because his name got erroneously attached to a story and the internet ate it up.

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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
If it was him, yes, permit or not. Last I read, we don't know for sure that it was. And it does bother me more than a little bit that if it wasn't him who killed the lion, he's now had his business ruined because his name got erroneously attached to a story and the internet ate it up.

I agree one needs to step back and confirm things. That being said, the link I put above (telegraph.com via the thread starters article) says:

Quote:

In a statement, Mr Palmer told Colorado News the authorities had yet to contact him and added he did not know the lion he had killed was a "local favourite".

"In early July, I was in Zimbabwe on a bow hunting trip for big game. I hired several professional guides and they secured all proper permits. To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted," he said.

"I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favourite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.

so my statement was in the context of thinking Mr. Palmer had admitted he had killed Cecil yet thought he had the right permits and somehow thought stating that he didn't know it was a "local favorite" made a difference.

Am I wrong in thinking from the time that Palmer shot an arrow into Cecil and the next day they shot him to death that someone perhaps should have noticed he had a monitoring collar on him?

The fact that they removed the collar suggests they really didn't want that to enter into their considerations.
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ltbewr
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:32 am

Sadly it is greed and need by local guides and the egos and money of the hunters that means we have such terrible situations.
Let's face it, the guides don't care about the balance of nature, the beauty of this animal or it was protected, they wanted enough money to perhaps buy a few head of cattle, buy some land, build a modest home, or enough to pay medical bills, make their lives better or at least help them and their families survive.
For the hunters, it is for bragging rights and they have enough money to waste. Too bad instead of spending his money so foolishly, this DDS couldn't have spent maybe a week doing dental work in a poor area of his home state or with a medial mission in that same region of Africa or just taken a safari.
Sadly, until it pays more for enough people to protect the animal vs. helping in such hunts, even to lure off protected areas 'trophy' animals and enough fools like this guy realize it isn't right to hunt such endangered creatures, more such great losses will happen
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Dude deserves to be taken down, IMHO.

Absolutely.

These are magnificent animals and should be protected.

We need to stop the needless killing just for the sake of killing
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:18 am

I'm not too far from the dental office that we works at. A lot of locals who did go there are now taking their business elsewhere. Not only did he kill a lion, he killed his business.

As others have said, disgraceful and unreasonable.
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
Absolutely.

These are magnificent animals and should be protected.

We need to stop the needless killing just for the sake of killing

Finally, something you and I can agree on. I think the doctor needs to be arrested.

Marc
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Dude deserves to be taken down, IMHO.

Absolutely.

These are magnificent animals and should be protected.

We need to stop the needless killing just for the sake of killing

Just to be clear, the context was that social networking is taking down his business, which I think is justified until he shows some genuine change of heart and provides appropriate compensation. I don't advocate any physical violence against the man himself.
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Acheron
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
The dentist Palmer is not squeaky clean:

He was also accused of sexual harassment at some point...

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walter...-documents-dental-board-complaint/

All around douchenozzle
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:35 am

They should arrest him, behead him, skin him and throw his dismembered remains to the remaining pride. Then they should leave his preserved hide at HRE Airport in one of those "banned imports/exports" displays you see at airports. with a sign saying "no animal products".

I have no time for trophy hunters. Proper hunters are ones that only hunt what they need to eat, and don't go hunting species with the sole purpose of ego-boosting/penis enlargement.
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:48 am

He claims he trusted the professionals in Zimbabwe.

In Zimbabwe !
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:21 am

The guy lives in the Midwest. Plenty of dear to shot and it won't cost you 50K. Or possibly your business
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:54 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
He claims he trusted the professionals in Zimbabwe.

In Zimbabwe !

TBH there are plenty of trustworthy African game guides and tour operators, who are engaged in conservation efforts because their business depends on it.

In Zimbabwe and elsewhere.

That said, before dropping $50K+ I would try to check everything was in order before sending a single penny.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:06 am

I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy of my liberal friends who have gone apeshit posting online petitions to have this man arrested, asking people to "speak for those who cannot speak for themselves," yet they're the same friends who freak out whenever anyone dares use the same verbiage when discussing abortion.

(And for the record, I do not believe in abortion but am firmly pro-choice.)
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:42 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 7):
Finally, something you and I can agree on

Not on your life Cadet985......


This is not unlike the behaviour of another country in the ME region we see displayed on a daily basis.

Shoot first, then ask questions

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 7):
I think the doctor needs to be arrested.

That... goes without saying.

He's literally a barbaric human being. Nothing more.

Bet he's got a "BIG" gun collection at home too..... But a real small dick, yet wife still smiles/ Pathetic

See hoe she fells about the freak tomorrow or the day after... her big trusting husband

He's a TRURD !!

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
Just to be clear, the context was that social networking is taking down his business, which I think is justified until he shows some genuine change of heart and provides appropriate compensation. I don't advocate any physical violence against the man himself.

He really should have thought about that before embarking on an African hunting tour. And killing such an animal.

Its not like its the first time contentious folk he been embroiled in hunting scandals now is it ?

[Edited 2015-07-29 01:44:57]
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:03 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
We need to stop the needless killing just for the sake of killing

More to the point we have a much bigger problem than this, Chinese herbal remedies and culinary habits are decimating wildlife all over the planet, if the Chinese aren't stopped there will be no animals left.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
if the Chinese aren't stopped

Wow, the many ways to finish that sentence just amaze....   
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:21 am

What a disgusting POS, I bet if he could get away with it he would "hunt" people too.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 18):
What a disgusting POS, I bet if he could get away with it he would "hunt" people too.

Where do you get this from, it's a pretty big step up from hunting animals to hunting people.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Wow, the many ways to finish that sentence just amaze....

It's a huge problem, Chinese are the buyers for most smuggled animals and animal parts.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:33 am

Hopefully Obama will extradite his ass directly to f***kin' Zimbabwe LOFL
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:42 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Wow, the many ways to finish that sentence just amaze..

Like it or not it is true even if the culprits are the tiny minority, Even if only 0.001% of China are Immoral cunts who don't give a shit about animals as long as they have their tiger penis soup, ground rhino tusk aphrodisiac that is still 1,3 million of them doing it.... There are 30,000 wild lions or 5000 Black Rhinos in all of Africa these days for example, That won't take long with those kinds of numbers..

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
It's a huge problem, Chinese are the buyers for most smuggled animals and animal parts.

and Vietnam too. But the majority of Ivory ends up in China, Wholesale militarised poaching funded by Cartels who smuggle it all to China to sell it to the *new* money who view animal body parts as status symbols (same as this guy from Minnesota.).
Imagine if the rest of the world killed all their precious Pandas (1800ish) and claimed it was an ancient Congolese remedy for Male pattern baldness.
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Acheron
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
yet they're the same friends who freak out whenever anyone dares use the same verbiage when discussing abortion.

That's one big leap in logic, there.

But you are not the first to try to pull that comparisson. I've religious nutjobs, freaks and Fox News fanboys doing it...

Some company.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:31 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 21):
and Vietnam too. But the majority of Ivory ends up in China, Wholesale militarised poaching funded by Cartels who smuggle it all to China to sell it to the *new* money who view animal body parts as status symbols (same as this guy from Minnesota.).
Imagine if the rest of the world killed all their precious Pandas (1800ish) and claimed it was an ancient Congolese remedy for Male pattern baldness.

Yep. Ivory, shark fins, various tiger body parts, etc. Not to mention seemingly unregulated overfishing. Baiji (Yangtze river dolphin) are already extinct due to overfishing, pollution, and a massive increase in river traffic.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:06 pm

By coincidence there's a picture in the latest Nat Geo edition of a trophy hunter and his mounted collection at home in Dallas. It is one of the most disgusting and despicable things I've ever seen related to animal abuse. This dentist and the likes if him would do well by humanity to just cull themselves. I'm literally stupefied at what must go on in the minds of such people that they would derive pleasure or some sense of accomplishment by so easily tricking a dumb animal into a painful, lengthy, and tortured end. There must be some type of brain damage there. At a minimum I hope this event turns out to destroy this dentist's life. May he suffer for decades before his own end comes.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
yet they're the same friends who freak out whenever anyone dares use the same verbiage when discussing abortion.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
This is not unlike the behaviour of another country in the ME region

Way to grab those political third rails, TheCommodore and EA CO AS!

As if we don't already have enough threads to discuss such topics...
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L-188
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
Let's face it, the guides don't care about the balance of nature, the beauty of this animal or it was protected

Actually all ethical (The vast majority) of guides realize they depend on the balance of nature and are very conscious of the impacts on it.

In fact for the years the countries that had the best poaching protection where the ones that had guided hunts. The revenue paid for the park rangers, and the guides watched out for poachers.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):

TBH there are plenty of trustworthy African game guides and tour operators, who are engaged in conservation efforts because their business depends on it.

Exactly.

Quoting wingman (Reply 24):
It is one of the most disgusting and despicable things I've ever seen related to animal abuse.

Hunting is not generally animal abuse. Only if the hunter does something wrong like use too light of a caliber of weapon is it. The idea is you want to drop and kill the animal as instantaneously as possible. In addition to the avoiding cruelty issue there is a practical reason for this. The body releases stress chemicals that can taint the flavor of the meat, so if you can kill the animal instantly you won't have that isse.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 7):
I think the doctor needs to be arrested.

For what. Right now he says he had the permits. I haven't seen any other evidence to the contrary. Funny we haven't heard the name of the guide outfit yet isn't it? They did the legwork for his trip.
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
Hunting is not generally animal abuse. Only if the hunter does something wrong like use too light of a caliber of weapon is it. The idea is you want to drop and kill the animal as instantaneously as possible. In addition to the avoiding cruelty issue there is a practical reason for this. The body releases stress chemicals that can taint the flavor of the meat, so if you can kill the animal instantly you won't have that isse.

Some would debate your use of the word "only", because some can reasonably decide that all killing falls into the category of "abuse". Regardless, it seems clear that the majority of hunters would feel that this is unethical hunting.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
For what. Right now he says he had the permits. I haven't seen any other evidence to the contrary.

Simply following the link in #1 provides more info:

  

Quote:

The Zimbabwean Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said: "Both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt." But the hunter Dr Walter Palmer has insisted he thought he was on a legal hunt


I don't know if he has any liability under Zimbabwe law. I think he should be, but it seems he is not being charged at this point in time.

And:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
Funny we haven't heard the name of the guide outfit yet isn't it? They did the legwork for his trip.


  

Quote:

On Tuesday, Zimbabwe National Parks issued a statement confirming the charges.

"Theo Bronkhorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris, is facing criminal charges for allegedly killing a collared lion on Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015," the statement said.
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy of my liberal friends who have gone apeshit posting online petitions to have this man arrested, asking people to "speak for those who cannot speak for themselves," yet they're the same friends who freak out whenever anyone dares use the same verbiage when discussing abortion.

I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone started making a faulty statement about liberals. We have enough threads discussing this.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
it's a pretty big step up from hunting animals to hunting people.

Actually, I tend to agree with the logic. I don't think he means the dentist will now turn into a sniper BUT I see some reasoning behind it.

When I was in school we'd have small, house lizards (very small ones) pay a visit to the classroom constantly. During recess there would be kids who would kill them for fun. If someone at that age kills animals just for fun, what's to stop them from doing it when they're grown up? Furthermore, if they don't value life with something innocent as animals (especially if they're not a threat) and they consider it "fun", what's to say that they'll value human life in the end?

Of course, there are laws that forbid killing people (as if we need a law to tell us something that should be universally known), but let's assume that this guide had said "You can't kill this lion" and the dentist wanted to do so anyway. Can we assume he wouldn't have tried to get his way either by shooting the lion or shooting both the guide AND the lion? Authorities in Africa aren't exactly ethical and for a few $$$ they could pretend the entire thing never happened and allow the dentist to slip away before it becomes known.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
Hunting is not generally animal abuse.

it's interesting that some do not consider hunting as abuse. I would sanction it only if the population got too big and needed to be controlled (hence why we kill pests). Has anyone thought about when you kill a deer you may also be killing a parent?

Yeah, I know, tree hugging liberal commie extremist talking here. I just feel that unless the animal NEEDS to die (it's out of its territorial boundary and presents a menace to local areas, it's part of our diet, population is out of control, etc.) there's no need to kill it. So this lion is dead. Now what? Is the dentist gonna bring it back to have a lion rug? Is he gonna cut out the head to make it into a trophy to mount on top of the fireplace?

If an animal killed a human, authorities would look for the animal and sacrifice it too.
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L-188
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
Has anyone thought about when you kill a deer you may also be killing a parent?

Actually since calves are usually dropped in the spring, it is one of the reasons hunting seasons usually happen in the fall.

Also most states prohibit taking a nursing doe....

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
some can reasonably decide that all killing falls into the category of "abuse".

That is simply not a reasonable assumption
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:18 pm

If people cared as much about a human as they do a lion, this world would be a better place. This story is an example of why this society is in trouble. I, as a person, shouldn't care. The deed is over and done with. It doesn't affect any of our lives. Let's spend our precious, limited time on this earth doing things that are constructive. I've already wasted enough time just writing this. I'm on to something worthwhile...
 
Acheron
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 30):
It doesn't affect any of our lives.

Yes it does.

Killing endangered and protected species fucks with the ecosystem as a whole, specially long term. Just because you might not "feel" it now, doesn't mean your grandchildren won't have to face the consequences of the actions of the people who share your logic.
 
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
Quoting wingman (Reply 24):
It is one of the most disgusting and despicable things I've ever seen related to animal abuse.

Hunting is not generally animal abuse. Only if the hunter does something wrong like use too light of a caliber of weapon is it. The idea is you want to drop and kill the animal as instantaneously as possible. In addition to the avoiding cruelty issue there is a practical reason for this. The body releases stress chemicals that can taint the flavor of the meat, so if you can kill the animal instantly you won't have that isse.

But this "hunter" was not interested in eating the animal (I doubt that an old lion tastes good). He also wasn't involved in an organised cull.
He used a weapon (bow and arrow) which caused the lion to suffer for 40 hours or so, before it could be tracked and dispatched with a gun shot. I think that he hunted, as to paraphrase the song "Duncan and Brady" "shot him just to see him die".
We have issues with these types here as well (I live in a rural region of Germany and most of my neighbours have hunting licences). In Germany, unless you own a rather big continous land (14 hectares), you don't have rthe right to hunt on your property. the right goes to the county, which divides the forested area and fields into hunting distracts and leases the hunting rights out to the highest bidder (though it is changing now). Many of those who take the lease are rich city dudes (many dentists among them, btw.). These guys come here maybe every few weeks or few months with their friends, do a bit of shooting and then boozing. They are not interested in food on the table or substituting wolves and bears (since the wall fell, a few wolf packs have returned from Ppoland, but there are no fre ranging bears in Germany) as top level predators to keep the numbers of deer and wild boar in check (which are procreating uncontrolled and cause damage by eating the bark of young trees or devastating farmer's fields).
They want trophies, preferable deer with big antlers, preferably many, as to have an easy shoot (fish in a barrel), to hang on their walls, but they are not culling excess deer or wild boar (unless forced by the government foresters, who threaten to fine them unless they do their work).
Another job the lessor of a hunting district has to do is to take care 24/7 of wild animals hurt or killed in traffic accidents. He gets called by the police to track and dispatch deer or wild boar injured by cars and to remove the dead animals from the road.
Due to this many counties are now prefering to give the lease to locals, mainly farmers, who will take care of the forest and do the work connected to the lease, even if they can't pay as much as some city millionaire.

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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
Where do you get this from, it's a pretty big step up from hunting animals to hunting people.

I do believe that anyone who enjoys killing animals just for fun is a sick, evil individual who's more likely to turn into a murderer than someone who doesn't. I'm not the only one on this thread who thinks like that...

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):

.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 30):
If people cared as much about a human as they do a lion, this world would be a better place. This story is an example of why this society is in trouble. I, as a person, shouldn't care. The deed is over and done with. It doesn't affect any of our lives. Let's spend our precious, limited time on this earth doing things that are constructive. I've already wasted enough time just writing this. I'm on to something worthwhile...

This story got a lot of exposure due to its uniqueness and the fact that lions are endangered, that doesn't mean people don't care about the loss of human lives.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 33):
I do believe that anyone who enjoys killing animals just for fun is a sick, evil individual who's more likely to turn into a murderer than someone who doesn't. I'm not the only one on this thread who thinks like that...

I don't know what is worse the fact that he killed a majestic beautiful animal for sport that apparantly was comfortable around humans or the fact that he paid 55k to do it. I mean really? You have that much money to throw around and could not find anything humane to do with it? This asshat deserves to lose it all and I really hope he does including his family.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 34):
or the fact that he paid 55k to do it

Apparently he's got lots of money...Perhaps way to much money for his own good.

Last year he paid US $127.500 to settle a sexual lawsuit against him.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11489262

           

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 34):
I mean really?

Flabbergasted !
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:20 am

This guy probably killed this male lions cubs also. Once a alpha male lion is gone a new male lion will become the alpha male of the pride and kill the predecessors cubs.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Airstud
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 36):
Once a alpha male lion is gone a new male lion will become the alpha male of the pride and kill the predecessors cubs.

Hmmmm... if that's true it makes me re-think assessing these animals as "beautiful."
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:15 am

I can get hunting for food and all, but trophy hunting? And with a bow and arrow? I don't care how thrilling it is, it's not acceptable to shoot an animal with a sharp stick and let it suffer needlessly just so you can get a rush. I have no problem with eating meat or using animal products but geez, don't make the thing suffer.

Innocent or not, this guy's a douche, a huge one
 
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seb146
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:16 am

Quoting wingman (Thread starter):
I don't mind hunting one bit and have special respect for hunters that consume what they catch to feed themselves and their families.

When I lived in eastern Oregon, there were people who would bow hunt deer and elk to feed their families. We bought a deer tag and had friends get one. I love the taste of venison.

But, hunting for food and thrill kills are two different things.

Thom Hartman had someone on today who said all hunting needs to stop because of the wolf population or some such thing. I didn't follow his logic. All I could think of is the natives hunted deer, elk, and buffalo for centuries and everything was fine. Herds stayed in check, people were fed and clothed.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
yet they're the same friends who freak out whenever anyone dares use the same verbiage when discussing abortion.

This is comparing apples to Nikes. Letting a woman make a decision in private with her doctor is not even the same thing as killing endangered animals for "fun".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 34):
This asshat deserves to lose it all and I really hope he does including his family.

His business will suffer greatly, the only people who "love" him now are other dentists in his part of town!



Quoting Airstud (Reply 37):
Hmmmm... if that's true it makes me re-think assessing these animals as "beautiful."

It's true, they're beautiful wild animals!
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:46 am

conservation, is not a right wing or left wing subject. People hunt for food, and our government does a pretty good job of controlling wildlife in the U.S.A. I don't think the same can be said for Africa.

This incident, has shed light, on a type of hunter that most hunters don't like. Someone who doesn't have the skill set to hunt on their own, so they pay local guides. Most hunters want to kill their game quickly, this dentist use a cross bow, that didn't kill the Lion in one shot, and instead of letting his guides finish him off, allowed the animal to suffer for 40 hours, so that he could claim he killed it. Finally after 40 hours a guide stepped in and killed it. The dentist is getting everything he deserves . I call BS on his claims he didn't know that luring a animal out of a park with meat was illegal. Besides that he was hunting inhumanly. That is really hard to overlook.


The African Lion Coaltion did a report, to answer the 200 million question of where does the hunting fee's go.
the claim is that exotic animal hunting actually benefit Africa’s lions — as well as its humans. Revenues from hunting generate $200 million annually in remote rural areas of Africa. (Rudolph and Hosmer 2011)


according to this study http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/fi...es/Ecolarge-2013-200m-question.pdf

25 percent of hunting fees goes into the ‘hole’ at the district. We‘re supposed to get 5 percent: we don‘t even see that. (Sachedina 2008, p152) They are as bad as U.S. charities.

so this dentist paid 55,000 of which 5% went toward conservation. so if you want to do something about conservation write a check don't go hunting like the Trump Brothers.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-s-sons-killed-exotic-animals.html
 
ltbewr
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:41 am

There can be one possible way this jerk could see criminal charges lodged against him in the the USA - as the linked article suggest, it could be on the USA's anti-bribery statutes as in effect he paid a bribe to get access to this particular lion : http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...ried_in_the_u_s_or_extradited.html
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
He used a weapon (bow and arrow)

I have heard conflicting reports on if it was a bow and arrow or a crossbow. The latter AFAIK is not legal to use as a hunting weapon in Alaska.

A bow and arrow kill is through blood loss. The hunter has to get a lot closer to the animal to make that happen and hopefully can hit the animal
in the heart or aorta to limit the amount of suffering. I have never gone bow hunting, but I think I can safely say that it requires a higher degree of skill.

You probably already know this but for those of you out there that haven't hunted, a bullet is designed to kill through shock. That is the application of force to the target by the mass and shock

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 41):
Someone who doesn't have the skill set to hunt on their own, so they pay local guides.

Careful there. In Alaska, out of state hunters are required by law to use guides for certain species, such as Brown Bears, Moose, Dall Sheep and others.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
The body releases stress chemicals that can taint the flavor of the meat, so if you can kill the animal instantly you won't have that isse

When was the last time you hunted and ate a lion?

I have no problem hunting for food, but trophy hunting is killing an animal for your ego and that's not acceptable in today's world.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 30):
If people cared as much about a human as they do a lion, this world would be a better place.

There are 8 billion humans on this planet (far to many IMO) and only so many lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos.........

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 33):

I do believe that anyone who enjoys killing animals just for fun is a sick, evil individual who's more likely to turn into a murderer than someone who doesn't. I'm not the only one on this thread who thinks like that...

No I don't see that at all, where I live most of my neighbours hunt, I don't see any of them as potential murderers.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 41):
Someone who doesn't have the skill set to hunt on their own, so they pay local guides.

Do you really think hunting in Africa is a wise idea without a local guide?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:24 am

L-188 lives in Alaska, where pork, poultry and beef has to be imported at high costs from the rest of the US, as there is no real farming possible due to climatic reasons. Hence meat is very expensive there. Like many Alaskans, L-188 has ahunting licence and during hunting season fills a big freezer with deer, elk and other game meat to last him for the rest of the year. He is using a rifle (IIRC an old WW2 Canadian Lee Enfield in .303 British for it's sturdiness) with hunting rounds, this means expanding bullets, which cause maximum damage to the inpact area to ensure a fast kill. Hunting there also means a long drive with a 4 x 4 vehicle into the wilderness and a long hike tracking the animals.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
JJJ
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:29 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
He used a weapon (bow and arrow) which caused the lion to suffer for 40 hours or so, before it could be tracked and dispatched with a gun shot.

First and foremost, I'm a bowhunter. Never taken the bow to Africa though, even though I go there regularly, I'd rather just see those majestic animals rather than kill them for a trophy.

That said a good shot would have dispatched it just as good as a rifle bullet. I've seen bear, moose, boar and other big animals drop humanely with a well placed arrow.

The shot was not good enough, just like a gut gunshot would have left the lion wounded and dying for hours or days.

The first rule of hunting is that if you can't take a good enough shot (arrow, bullet or slug) you just don't. If that means another hour of tracking or waiting to get in a good position, so be it. That's what hunting is about.

I absolutely despise the way these hunt-for-a-trophy tours go. The animal is basically herded onto a good position by the guides so you only have to pull the trigger. As was the case with this lion, they're so used to having humans around taking pictures they just won't notice you anymore. It's basically shooting a really big house cat on your front porch. No thrill and no skill needed. Just fork out the cash for instant bragging rights.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:47 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 42):
There can be one possible way this jerk could see criminal charges lodged against him in the the USA -

couldn't the Lacey Act be applicable in this case as well?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
JJJ
Posts: 3654
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:12 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 44):
Do you really think hunting in Africa is a wise idea without a local guide?

A local guide is a must.

Most times though, the animal is herded out to a pre-set position, with a professional hunter (or two) by your side just in case something goes wrong.

A lot of the well-off people who engage in big game hunting are elderly or desk types not used to spending a whole day tracking on foot.

You're basically chauffered in an air-conditioned 4x4 to one of several pre-set blinds. Wait for whatever you're paying for to appear and pull the trigger. Then off to the lodge for grilled meat and a few cold beers.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3719
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RE: Minnesota Dentist Trophy Hunts African Lion

Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:13 pm

I don't like the fact that he killed a protected animal and think he should be punished for it but (as usual) the animal nuts have lost all perspective about this. They are actually making feel a little sympathy for the hunter.

I don't think they would be this upset if I were shot and killed with a bow and arrow.

I personally think that cartoons have ruined human relationships with wild animals. Whenever one dies, I think people subconsciously think about Mufasa, Pooh Bear, and Tony the Tiger instead of thinking about a ferocious animal that would kill and eat me if it had the chance. These folks would not be nearly as upset then...

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