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Thunderboltdrgn
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Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:26 am

A man was found in the cargo hold of an aircraft from ET that arrived at ARN from ADD this morning.
The man claims that he is/was an employee at ADD and that is why he was able to get access to the aircraft.

His intention was to seek asylum in Sweden.

http://www.thelocal.se/20150814/man-...ound-alive-in-stockholm-plane-hold

[Edited 2015-08-14 02:27:35]
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andrefranca
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:29 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Thread starter):

Hopefully SWE will grant him asylum! people from the first world have no clue how terrible life in the "thirds" can be....
 
rampbro
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:46 pm

Good for him; no risk no reward. I wish him all the best in his new country.
 
bennett123
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:22 pm

Given that the guy seems to an economic migrant, (no contrary evidence) not sure why you are so keen to let him stay.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 1):
Hopefully SWE will grant him asylum! people from the first world have no clue how terrible life in the "thirds" can be....

Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else?
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rampbro
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 3):
Given that the guy seems to an economic migrant, (no contrary evidence) not sure why you are so keen to let him stay.

Says the guy from the country who farmed out their poors all across the globe for three centuries.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else?

Yes. The reasons those countries are impoverished in the first place is because of the machinations of the rich countries people end up moving to.
Also, as an American, I'm sure you can appreciate the desire to move to a different country, grow your life and achieve happiness. That's the American Dream, no?
 
bennett123
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:56 pm

Perhaps they should all go to Canada.

Plenty of open space.
 
fbwless
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:19 pm

About 90000 people will seek asylum in Sweden this year. Ethiopia is the 11th most frequent country the probability to be granted asylum is about 50% for Ethiopians.

Earlier this week an asylum seeking man from Eritrea murdered two random Swedish people at an IKEA store. He was to be deported to Italy since he already had a permit of permanent residence there. Can you guess what the Swedish people in general think about asylum seeking people?
 
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falstaff
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 5):
Also, as an American, I'm sure you can appreciate the desire to move to a different country, grow your life and achieve happiness. That's the American Dream, no?

There are ways to come to new places legally. I have no sympathy for illegals. Just because somebody shows up doesn't mean they should be allowed to stay.
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777way
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:18 pm

With all the hassle involved in migating legally I'm beginning to envy these people.
 
BerenErchamion
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else?

Yes.

God created all the world for all humanity; we've got no right to restrict who's allowed to be where simply because of what side of an arbitrary and morally-irrelevant line on a map they started from.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:58 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Thread starter):
A man was found in the cargo hold of an aircraft from ET that arrived at ARN from ADD this morning.
The man claims that he is/was an employee at ADD and that is why he was able to get access to the aircraft.

He’s not the first ET employee to use one of their aircraft in an effort to seek asylum. There was also the ET first officer who locked the captain out of the cockpit when he left to use the lavatory on an ADD-FCO 763 flight about a year and a half ago and hijacked his own flight to GVA where he requested asylum. I believe Switzerland denied his asylum request and he’s still in a Swiss prison awaiting trial. Not sure why it’s taking so long.
 
B737900
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:43 am

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):
God created all the world for all humanity

Let's keep god out of this discussion.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:53 am

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):
God created all the world for all humanity; we've got no right to restrict who's allowed to be where simply because of what side of an arbitrary and morally-irrelevant line on a map they started from.

So next time I'm rolling through your town you won't mind if me and my friends pitch a couple of tents on your front lawn for a few days?
 
kurtjeter
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else

No, they should just suck it up and accept their fate. As you would, right?
 
coolian2
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:45 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
So next time I'm rolling through your town you won't mind if me and my friends pitch a couple of tents on your front lawn for a few days?

Is that what asylum seekers do?
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 14):
No, they should just suck it up and accept their fate. As you would, right?

I think this is the major issue. I would be doing the same as they would. But I don't think eliminating borders is the solution. Neither is building a wall with snipers on top. We have to figure out a way to let in way more people while somehow making it easier for them to mesh with and legitimately benefit the destination society. This current situation of whole portions of cities being filled with 80+% immigrants is not going to help. Especially if a large portion are illegal and a big percentage of those just dumping potential GDP back to their families.

I don't know how to do that but I think that's a step in the right direction.
 
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RJ321
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:17 am

Why not help those suffering and imbed them within the society, thereby giving them a chance to be successful ? They are humans just like us after all, no difference at all....
 
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RWA380
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else?

Yes, read below please:

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):
Yes.

God created all the world for all humanity; we've got no right to restrict who's allowed to be where simply because of what side of an arbitrary and morally-irrelevant line on a map they started from.

Thank you for providing the humane & real truth up, being enlightened is often times a double edged sword, the positions one needs to take, are not always popular with the conservative types.

There is not going to be any change in anything, until we act as a global entity with peace & humane consideration for all.

I don't see that happening in my lifetime, but one can be blissfully optimistic I guess. What we can say is people are restricted in their movements throughout the world today, if you have the right amount of money you can live any place you'd like, then the other 98% of us are caught where we were born. I admire my folks who immigrated to the US in 1964, but even then they had to have sponsors in the USA, until they got their green cards in 65 & finally US passports in 1970.

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 17):

Why not help those suffering and imbed them within the society, thereby giving them a chance to be successful ? They are humans just like us after all, no difference at all....

There are so many morale, hard working people who just need a break from all over the world, I don't feel that just because I was lucky enough to be born in the land of plenty, that it shouldn't be an attainable goal for any person from around the world to come here & have a chance to make their dreams come true, if that's what they want.

I do feel immigration should be more standardized, but not so restricted that one can't come just to seek their own path.

If one wants something badly enough, they will go to great extents to try & obtain that, sometimes in the belly of an aircraft or sometimes in a shipping container & that list goes on. The human spirit is strong.

The one thing we can't change is the need & desire by all humans to be free & not under the thumb of a dictator or fascist government or being so impoverished that even their basic needs are a daily struggle., no one should be forced to stay in those conditions just because they were unlucky enough to be born there.

Part of being a citizen of the first world is to know when to share & there is no reason that one person on this planet should be without food, clean water & basic shelter, we can do that at least, at best we can be selfless & stop trying to only concern ourselves with ourselves.
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pvjin
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:28 am

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):

Unfortunately nobody outside the western world thinks like that. As of now Europe is taking the full hit of African / Middle Eastern refugees while Saudi-Arabia, Qatar and other oil rich states just stand by and do absolutely nothing to help. That's not fair at all.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
I do feel immigration should be more standardized, but not so restricted that one can't come just to seek their own path.

There are millions and millions of Africans who would love to come "seek their own path" in Europe despite the fact most of them have no higher education or other talent that would get them employed, not to even mention huge cultural differences. Thus they would end up living on welfare, and that would absolutely ruin our welfare systems for everybody. And if the welfare systems got ruined the result would be huge surge of crime and chaos. This isn't like America in the 1800's where there was plenty of land and opportunities for any uneducated person from whatever background.

Europe without border control would collapse in no time, similarly to the Western Roman Empire after it was unable to protect its borders anymore.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
The one thing we can't change is the need & desire by all humans to be free & not under the thumb of a dictator or fascist government or being so impoverished that even their basic needs are a daily struggle., no one should be forced to stay in those conditions just because they were unlucky enough to be born there.

Then get rid of that government and start building your country, that's what populations of all countries that are successful now did at some point in time. When you have countries that have been in constant civil war for decades without an external factor you can't help but blame the locals for not stopping the cycle of madness in name of common good.

[Edited 2015-08-15 00:31:24]

[Edited 2015-08-15 00:37:25]
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Androol
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:53 am

What bothers me is that many of these refugees come to Europe and bring with them all the baggage and problems they are trying to escape. I also do not feel that it is the obligation of Europe or North America to save the rest of the world by taking in all the immigrants. I do agree that the western world should help to make things better in those countries, particularly through debt relief, but Europe cannot afford to take in all the refugees nor does it have the responsibility to accommodate everyone who comes seeking asylum just because they do not like their life back home.
 
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:17 am

African nations have been under their own rule for more than half a century. In that time an uninterrupted line of deeply corrupt, violent and oppressive regimes have managed to dig the vast majority of their populations into an ever deeper hole, while the aid given to them by Western nations have largely gone into the coffers of a few.

Tell me again, please, why it is my problem that they are unable to govern themselves?
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scbriml
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:18 am

'Asylum' is designed to offer protection to people fleeing from persecution in their own country. This person is clearly an economic refugee, he's not fleeing from anything. He just thinks he'll be better off in Sweden.

I have every sympathy for genuine asylum seekers, but little for economic refugees.

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):
Yes.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Yes

So you'd be perfectly happy for tens of millions of economic refugees to arrive in America and pay the extra taxes that would be required to support them? Perhaps you'd be perfectly happy for them to take your jobs as well?   
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LSZH34
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:25 am

Please move this thread to Non-Av.
 
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RJ321
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 23):

I agree, nothing to do with aviation -anymore-.
 
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andrefranca
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:37 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Should everyone who lives in a impoverished country be allowed to move somewhere else?

Yes, we humans have chosen to settle borders, but earth belongs to all living beings!

Quoting fbwless (Reply 7):
About 90000 people will seek asylum in Sweden this year. Ethiopia is the 11th most frequent country the probability to be granted asylum is about 50% for Ethiopians.

Because Sweden is THE REAL land of freedom and justice, light yeeeeeaaaaars ahead of the USA that claims that tittle to themselves! LOL

Quoting falstaff (Reply 8):
There are ways to come to new places legally. I have no sympathy for illegals. Just because somebody shows up doesn't mean they should be allowed to stay.

Try to get a somali passport and join the line to get a visa, even if you're a wealthy somali, the rich countries will make the hell to force you to give up. Been there, done that.

Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 14):
No, they should just suck it up and accept their fate. As you would, right?

Again, think of yourself with the somali passport.

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 17):
Why not help those suffering and imbed them within the society, thereby giving them a chance to be successful ? They are humans just like us after all, no difference at all....

Man you got my respect! cheers habibi!

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 21):
African nations have been under their own rule for more than half a century. In that time an uninterrupted line of deeply corrupt, violent and oppressive regimes have managed to dig the vast majority of their populations into an ever deeper hole, while the aid given to them by Western nations have largely gone into the coffers of a few.

Lets not forget that colonization also played a major role on the "catastrophes" around the globe. I see brits complaining here, man they colonized half of the planet, some countries know other countries except Britain because it was the rulers! EAT THAT!
 
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pvjin
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 25):
Yes, we humans have chosen to settle borders, but earth belongs to all living beings!

Sorry, it just doesn't work like that. Our established societies here in Europe have a thing called "social welfare". If European countries automatically gave nationality to anyone who wants to move here we would soon have tens of millions of Africans coming here just to get free money and housing, which would effectively ruin our economies and welfare systems.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 25):
Because Sweden is THE REAL land of freedom and justice, light yeeeeeaaaaars ahead of the USA that claims that tittle to themselves! LOL

Not really, Sweden is far from being a land of freedom and justice. It's hardly a democracy nowadays, it has some very backward prohibition laws and a failed immigration policy.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 25):
Try to get a somali passport and join the line to get a visa, even if you're a wealthy somali, the rich countries will make the hell to force you to give up. Been there, done that.

And for a good reason, at least here in Finland the Somali refugees we take haven't integrated very well at all.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 25):
Lets not forget that colonization also played a major role on the "catastrophes" around the globe. I see brits complaining here, man they colonized half of the planet, some countries know other countries except Britain because it was the rulers! EAT THAT!

You can't play the colonization card forever, some African countries are already rising fast while others remain miserable, mainly due to people hating each other or moving to Europe instead of building their country. Brain drain caused by immigration to Europe is one big issue to these countries.

Besides, what would Africa be without all the stuff European colonialists brought there? Probably nothing would have changed.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
ltbewr
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:51 pm

This was a terrible failure of security by ET, one that is totally unacceptable by international standards. We cannot allow unauthorized access to aircraft, including stowaways or airline employees, to get on them. There is of course the fears of terrorism, but the risks of death from such illegal travel by the stowaway (that has happened numerous times) and that it may encourage others to do so means strict standards must be held.
Sweden in this case should deny asylum and turn the person back to their home country. Countries cannot award such actions.
 
trent900
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting BerenErchamion (Reply 10):

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):

Yes.

God created all the world for all humanity; we've got no right to restrict who's allowed to be where simply because of what side of an arbitrary and morally-irrelevant line on a map they started from.

Being a none believer unfortunately this doesn't rub off on me mainly because the world has been around long before us, it belongs to Mother Nature. Some countries in Europe currently have a serious issue with migrants trying to get in illegally (please read or watch the news) the UK is one of them, and being such a small country we just haven't got the room for them, as in housing, jobs, money etc, etc. would you have a problem if we sent plane loads over to you? I think the USA would!

If they can't go through the legal channels them send them home.

D.
 
777way
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RE: Man Found In ET Aircraft Cargo Hold At ARN

Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:31 pm

Illegal economic migrants should be deported, including being imprisoned for a day after landing on foreign soil, no matter how bad things are back home they can easily do something there like the millions of their fellow country people are.

This is nothing compared to entire amateur sports teams vanishing in a place like Japan, they were not even east asian.

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