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AA7295
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Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:27 pm

A few years ago I opened this thread: Should The US End Birthright Citizenship? (by AA7295 Nov 27 2012 in Non Aviation)

It now appears that Trump is on the same page and wants to end birthright citizenship: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donal...s-end-birthright/story?id=33114832

While I do not agree with most of what Trump says, I still standby my opinion that in the ever increasing global reach of humanity combined with IRS' ridiculous MO to tax citizens outside the US, that birthright citizenship is unnecessary and only serves a purpose of abuse.

[Edited 2015-08-17 12:28:35]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:37 pm

Just one teeeeeeny tinnnnny lil' itty bitty problem:

To do so would require a Constitutional amendment.... and "Trump" might be an overinflated brand/ego, but it's not 3/4ths of the states.

And *that* is yet another glaring example of why this character/persona will NEVER be President: big on talk, low on substance, nil on execution thereof.

[Edited 2015-08-17 12:39:24]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ikramerica
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:37 pm

I would end it as a blanket policy, but keep it for parents who've lived here over 2 years or something like that. No citizenship hotels or cross the border deliveries should count. It wasn't possible 150 years ago to fly or drive over the border 2 weeks before delivery, and it's obviously not what was intended in the first place. It was a way of granting citizenship to former slaves by way of birthright.
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luckyone
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:14 pm

On this I agree with Trump (wipes tongue, that didn't taste good). We should not be handing out citizenship to people who just happened to spring forth on our soil Citizenship should be automatic only if one's parents are citizens or permanent residents.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 3):

On this I agree with Trump (wipes tongue, that didn't taste good). We should not be handing out citizenship to people who just happened to spring forth on our soil Citizenship should be automatic only if one's parents are citizens or permanent residents.


We went to get our kids passports a few years back. The office was pretty slow and looking around I noticed a few anchor baby parents picking up passports for their newborns. The couple sitting next to us were Russian/Ukrain, another from China and yet another couple from Western Europe. My first thought was how desperate are you that you fly near full term half way around the world to drop a kid? My second thought was, this is a bunch of crap. They'll go back, apply for citizenship as parents of a citizen and if they come here with little or nothing be immediately put on the U.S. purse. Maybe all that's needed really is clarification of what "jurisdiction" really means. I seriously doubt the framers envisioned such systematic abuse.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
To do so would require a Constitutional amendment.... and "Trump" might be an overinflated brand/ego, but it's not 3/4ths of the states.

Well, duh... Everyone knows that.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
And *that* is yet another glaring example of why this character/persona will NEVER be President: big on talk, low on substance, nil on execution thereof.

And where did The Donald say that he would do this on his own?

Just watch the liberal media go ape-shit. He will be called racist, and all sorts of vile crap. Ironic that after 6+ years of Obama all of a sudden they will become concerned with the Constitution...


BTW, the US is the only First World country in the world to still have Birthright citizenship. Australia, France, New Zealand etc have all repealed it. For once I agree, it's time we join with the rest of the world and stop it.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 4):
The office was pretty slow and looking around I noticed a few anchor baby parents picking up passports for their newborns. The couple sitting next to us were Russian/Ukrain, another from China and yet another couple from Western Europe. My first thought was how desperate are you that you fly near full term half way around the world to drop a kid?

How did you know they were anchor baby parents?
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Aesma
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
BTW, the US is the only First World country in the world to still have Birthright citizenship. Australia, France, New Zealand etc have all repealed it. For once I agree, it's time we join with the rest of the world and stop it.

Jus Soli has not been reformed in France recently, it's still practiced, however it's not the same thing as what you have in the US. France is not alone either : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

We have our own anchor babies, even an island full of them (Mayotte in the Indian Ocean), however the mothers have to abandon the children at birth for it to work, or to have a way to stay on French soil for some time (ask for refugee status for example). You can't just pop on French soil then get a passport immediately.
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WingsFan
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:18 pm

This has nothing to do with the the election thread, but is still related to the topic of US citizenship.

I think there should have been at least a voluntary provision for parents to opt out of US citizenship for their child. For example, India does not offer duel citizenship. So if a child is born to Indian parents in US, the parents cannot demand that their child be given the same Indian citizenship because a child is automatically a US citizen. This is a big hassle for many.

WingsFan

[Edited 2015-08-17 14:21:46]
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 6):

How did you know they were anchor baby parents?


Please. Don't play naive. Twenty somethings with a newborn? Besides, they were going to the two windows set up specifically for foreign nationals and getting a U.S. Passport. Kind of a dead giveaway.

I guess they were there for a burger and fries.

[Edited 2015-08-17 14:27:14]
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Aesma
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:27 pm

Dual citizenship is an interesting concept. No country recognize it because each country is only concerned with its own citizenry. Some countries tell their citizens they can't hold another citizenship, but what can they do about it if they don't know it ?

Of course with a place of birth in the US, you have a problem.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
D L X
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:28 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 4):
My first thought was how desperate are you that you fly near full term half way around the world to drop a kid? My second thought was, this is a bunch of crap.

And how did YOUR ancestors get here?
This is nothing but xenophobic tripe. Shameful.

Do you even know what it means to be an American? Do you know where the following quote is inscribed?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 4):
They'll go back, apply for citizenship as parents of a citizen and if they come here with little or nothing be immediately put on the U.S. purse.

More BS. They'll probably become taxpayers.
 
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WingsFan
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 9):
Twenty somethings with a newborn? Besides, they were going to the two windows set up specifically for foreign nationals.

Whats wrong with twenty something having newborn? There are hundreds of thousands twenty somethings foreign nationals who live/work/study in US legally for years. Are you suggesting they wind up their lives , sell their houses , quit their jobs or course of study and return home to have babies?

Do you know they cannot apply to be a dependent of that child for 21 more years? Even after that they may be decades away from being granted a green card , not even citizenship?

[Edited 2015-08-17 14:36:57]

[Edited 2015-08-17 14:53:42]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Well, duh... Everyone knows that.

No, they don't. Go to CNN or Fox and read the commentary, just to give yourself a taste of the pervasive ignorance out there.


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
And where did The Donald say that he would do this on his own?

Better question: when has "the Donald" put forth a coherent plan as to how to achieve 90% of the "YUGE!!!" plans he has, nearly all of which require the cooperation of Congress and/or the states, for *when* (not if) he doesn't receive it?


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
BTW, the US is the only First World country in the world to still have Birthright citizenship.

Also the only First World country not to guarantee 100% health coverage via a single-payer like system, and where the average citizen can run around buck-wild with guns.

Haven't seen you complaining thereabout, so why the convenient use of this rationale now?


Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
And how did YOUR ancestors get here?
This is nothing but xenophobic tripe. Shameful.

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Quoting WingsFan (Reply 12):

Amazing the lengths people will go to in order to defend this nonsense.

Problem number one...enablers.

[Edited 2015-08-17 15:44:58]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 9):
Please. Don't play naive. Twenty somethings with a newborn? Besides, they were going to the two windows set up specifically for foreign nationals and getting a U.S. Passport. Kind of a dead giveaway.

I guess they were there for a burger and fries.

Christ, you have got to be kidding me.

You know that people move to the US now and then, right?

Anyway, you answered my question. You DON'T know that they were anchor baby parents.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 14):
Amazing the lengths people will go to in order to defend this nonsense.

I know right?!

Why ever would we do what's in our silly ol' Constitution, or written on that ridiculous statue standing in the middle of NY/NJ waters?

The nerve!   
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 15):

Whether here on a visa or otherwise, if they are not citizens the kid is an anchor baby. What's so complicated about this?

Endless immigration is unsustainable. Time to make a change. Plenty of other countries have figured it out. It's long past our turn.

[Edited 2015-08-17 16:09:41]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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Aesma
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:09 pm

If they're not citizens, then they're not responsible for your laws.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:15 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):

If they're not citizens, then they're not responsible for your laws.

Hence the need for change. We can't sustain this.

Everyone here illegally needs to get in line. There are thousands already in line legally. They get in first, they rest can follow when their number comes up. Don't like it? They can go back where they came from.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:22 pm

This:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 17):
Whether here on a visa or otherwise, if they are not citizens the kid is an anchor baby. What's so complicated about this?

does not equal this:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 19):
Everyone here illegally needs to get in line

That holy source of all things perfectly accurate, Wikipedia, defines it thusly:

"Anchor baby" is a pejorative term for a child born in the United States to a foreign national mother who was not lawfully admitted for permanent residence.

Basically, what you're saying is you don't want anyone to legally immigrate to the US.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):

Don't care man. Just don't care, It all needs to stop. Every other nation of reasonable thought has done the same. You wanna go somewhere in today's world, carry your weight or stay put. The wallet is empty.
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:04 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
That holy source of all things perfectly accurate, Wikipedia, defines it thusly:

"Anchor baby" is a pejorative term for a child born in the United States to a foreign national mother who was not lawfully admitted for permanent residence.

Basically, what you're saying is you don't want anyone to legally immigrate to the US.

This is why people get so upset trying to argue with a liberal. You know perfectly well we distinguish between illegal and legal immigration. But you intentionally propagandize the issue by saying, "If you are against illegal immigration then you must be against all immigration." How about dealing honestly for a change?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
Airstud
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
And how did YOUR ancestors get here?

Mine? LEGALLY, that's how.

The Emma Lazarus poem you posted is an inscription on the Statue of Liberty, I hereby apprise you that that does not grant it legislative effect. There's a difference between the truly tired, poor, or yearning-for-freedom and those who'd simply PREFER to be U.S. citizens.

Hell, I like how they live in Dubai, so I'm ok to bust in over there and then be entitled to UAE citizenship, eh?

[Edited 2015-08-17 17:21:06]
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
This is why people get so upset trying to argue with a liberal. You know perfectly well we distinguish between illegal and legal immigration. But you intentionally propagandize the issue by saying, "If you are against illegal immigration then you must be against all immigration." How about dealing honestly for a change?

It's not possible. Seriously, that's why I want the door shut completely at this point. If they want to pretend the word illegal doesn't exist, well then it's time for more drastic measures.

It's like the turd in boot camp. Yeah, I know, he's only one turd in the bunch but if you punish everyone then they all get the message and do something about the turd. You let it go and suddenly you find yourself with a dozen turns in the bunch.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 23):

Mine? LEGALLY, that's how.


The next response will be "prove it". This has been played out before. The stance is everyone got here illegally at some point, therefore what's the difference. He doesn't beleove it of course, it's just an argument for the sake of arguing. The reality is we have a significant immigration problem. Some people care and want to fix the problem, others don't care at all and will label you a racist or xenophobic. It's so tired and old at this point it's almost laughable. Unless if affects them personally they won't change. It's like those clowns in Frisco that didn't want to face up to the shortcomings of their sanctuary city policies. It doesn't serve their ideology, so anyone opposed to their warped view is persona non grata.

[Edited 2015-08-17 17:32:43]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
This is why people get so upset trying to argue with a liberal. You know perfectly well we distinguish between illegal and legal immigration. But you intentionally propagandize the issue by saying, "If you are against illegal immigration then you must be against all immigration." How about dealing honestly for a change?

Sigh. He included both legal and illegal immigration, which was the entire reason I posted that.

How about reading all the posts above yours for a change?

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
This:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 17):Whether here on a visa or otherwise, if they are not citizens the kid is an anchor baby. What's so complicated about this?
does not equal this:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 19):Everyone here illegally needs to get in line

And he didn't even deny it:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 21):
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
Don't care man. Just don't care, It all needs to stop. Every other nation of reasonable thought has done the same. You wanna go somewhere in today's world, carry your weight or stay put. The wallet is empty.

Did you even read the original post I was responding to? Here, I'll post the first half of the chain:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 4):
The office was pretty slow and looking around I noticed a few anchor baby parents picking up passports for their newborns. The couple sitting next to us were Russian/Ukrain, another from China and yet another couple from Western Europe. My first thought was how desperate are you that you fly near full term half way around the world to drop a kid?
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 6):
How did you know they were anchor baby parents?
Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 9):
Please. Don't play naive. Twenty somethings with a newborn? Besides, they were going to the two windows set up specifically for foreign nationals and getting a U.S. Passport. Kind of a dead giveaway.

I guess they were there for a burger and fries.


Where's your differentiation between illegal and legal? I don't happen to see it. It's a giant assumption that these people in the passport office were illegals.

Oh, lastly, I'm not a cookie-cutter liberal. Way to incorrectly generalize.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25):
Sigh. He included both legal and illegal immigration, which was the entire reason I posted that.

Well, yeah, Most countries I know of, even if your parents are in the country legally but are foreign citizens, being born in-country does not automatically give you the right to citizenship. This is normal. If your parents are French, then you are French.
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Airstud
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 17):
Whether here on a visa or otherwise, if they are not citizens the kid is an anchor baby. What's so complicated about this?

Um, no; an "anchor baby" is one born to parents who are here illegally. So if the parents are here on a visa, the kid is not an anchor baby. What's so complicated about that?
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 27):

Um, no; an "anchor baby" is one born to parents who are here illegally. So if the parents are here on a visa, the kid is not an anchor baby. What's so complicated about that?

Wrong. The term is "...parent who is not a lawful permanent resident".

Websters even...

nounoffensive
noun: anchor baby; plural noun: anchor babies
used to refer to a child born to a noncitizen mother in a country which has birthright citizenship, especially when viewed as providing an advantage to family members seeking to secure citizenship or legal residency.

You can be here legally and not be a citizen. I don't care if people think it's offensive. The outright systematic abuse is offensive.

[Edited 2015-08-17 17:37:46]
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Francoflier
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:10 am

For having been in Central America for a while, I know that the American concept of birthright citizenship is largely being abused.

You wouldn't imagine the amount of people from these countries trying to somehow make their way to the US in late stages of pregnancy, with or without a visa.

America needs its large population of working class immigrants from south of the border and other places. As many other developed countries, these immigrants form an important part of the internal economic structure.

It's all about number and management, and this is where the problem lies in most places where immigration is an issue (most western developed countries, these days..).
Every developed country needs a number of new immigrants every year which varies according to its economical status, growth, unemployment, welfare deficit, etc. The tricky bit is to try and control the influx of said immigrants.

I don't know whether, in this context, birthright citizenship is harming or helping the US economy as a whole, but at least Trump has the merit of reigniting the debate.
Let's just hope he's never in a position to do anything about it and leaves it to competent people...
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diverted
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 23):
Mine? LEGALLY, that's how.

I'm about an hour north of the US, but the point still stands.
My grandparents came here post ww2, with many other immigrants looking for a fresh start. However, when they came across, it was LEGALLY. My roommate is from an eastern Euro nation who came after the Yugoslav wars, also legally.
In both cases, from speaking with them, the general thought process before they landed here, was, 'How do we become Canadian.' They worked on their English before getting here.
My grandfather has often told me how when he came here he had a small suitcase with some clothes and $5 in his pocket. So he went out, got a job on a farm, and helped provide for his family.

Let me be clear, I have no problem with immigration at all, as I wouldn't be where I am without it. However, those that come here to have a baby and collect social services can get lost. If you'd like to live here then you can start the paperwork process and when you've been given a visa you can come. Why should we let people in so they can mooch off tax dollars you and I have paid when our ancestors had to work long hours to get where they (and the country) are.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 30):
Let me be clear, I have no problem with immigration at all, as I wouldn't be where I am without it. However, those that come here to have a baby and collect social services can get lost. If you'd like to live here then you can start the paperwork process and when you've been given a visa you can come. Why should we let people in so they can mooch off tax dollars you and I have paid when our ancestors had to work long hours to get where they (and the country) are.

No one has a problem with legal immigration, but there's no fight in that argument so if your opposed to illegal immigration then you are obviously a racist xenophobe opposed to all immigration.     

I've decided to heck with it. If I'm going to be labeled that way anyway, might as well run with it.   

Meanwhile, nothing to see here in the U.S.. It's only costing us $100 billion or so a year.  
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 19):
Don't like it? They can go back where they came from.

And die from starvation, disease, or war. That is how we are the "Shining City On The Hill" by letting people die. You do understand that people come here for a better life. One with food and shelter and clean water and no war. These people are not coming here with free government crap on their minds. They are here out of survival. Yes, illegally. But, when they get that "under the table job" they also spend that cash on things like food and clothes. In California, that becomes at least 8.5% tax for us. They are not eligible for "free government crap" your type thinks happens. Why? They need documentation they are in this country legally. We need something more than just a multi billion dollar fence. We need action on the people already here and we need action on the wars south of us. We need to help those countries (NOT MONEY) understand how they can best keep their own there.

By simply ending one tiny part of the Constitution will not stop people coming to this country.
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WarRI1
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:55 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 31):
Meanwhile, nothing to see here in the U.S.. It's only costing us $100 billion or so a year.

You are not alone in your views, some just do not have the courage to say it like Trump. 100 billion means nothing, what is more important, 100 billion or cheap labor for the wealthy and the exploiters? We all know the answer, cheap labor obviously. No union jobs obviously, no benefits obviously. That is what this is all about, cheap labor. E verify would also do wonders with this problem. Of course we know there are too many errors in the system. What a bunch of morons running this country oops! I mean stupid people.  
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ltbewr
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:12 am

Many are desperate and like simplistic ideas such as eliminating Birthright Citizenship in the USA to deal with our serious problem with illegal immigration.

The only way to really end Birthright Citizenship is is to amend the 14th Amendment of the USA Constitution The process would take years and unlikely to get the 2/rd vote in the Senate and Congress then the 75% of states legislatures to approve the amendment. Of course politicians of both parties fearful of losing Hispanic and other immigrate groups for support in voting if citizens as well as pressure form some religious groups would likely make it impossible.

The biggest problem with ending our birthright citizenship would be to cause serious chances of many to be stateless as not recognized by the USA by birth or as not born in their parent's home country, nor seen as a citizen there.

Until we have a serious, workable reform as to immigration, enforcing strict laws on employers, get a solid work visa program for farm, ranching and related work only and dealing with the millions who are here illegally in a humane and balanced way, it will get much worse and more will demand more severe actions.
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
BTW, the US is the only First World country in the world to still have Birthright citizenship.

Actually, Canada has it as well. But the pressure to abolish it (or at least add France like conditions) is growing.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
Dual citizenship is an interesting concept.

Yes, it is. I was wondering who would be reported dead if a plane with me aboard would go down. Mr. WildcatYXU from Canada or Ing. WildcatYXU from Slovakia?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
No country recognize it because each country is only concerned with its own citizenry. Some countries tell their citizens they can't hold another citizenship, but what can they do about it if they don't know it ?

And some tell to their citizens that they can't hold citizenship of one particular country...

Quoting diverted (Reply 30):
However, those that come here to have a baby and collect social services can get lost.

Agreed.

Quoting diverted (Reply 30):
If you'd like to live here then you can start the paperwork process and when you've been given a visa you can come.

Agreed. Been there, done that.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 31):
No one has a problem with legal immigration, but there's no fight in that argument so if your opposed to illegal immigration then you are obviously a racist xenophobe opposed to all immigration.

Well, the legal immigrants I know are all opposed to illegal immigration. It's funny being labelled "a racist xenophobe opposed to all immigration" while being a naturalized legal immigrant.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 35):
And some tell to their citizens that they can't hold citizenship of one particular country...

Not to drag discussion off-topic, but it takes two to tango. Perhaps if that one particular country was able to finally move on and wasn't still moaning about allleged injustices of Trianon almost a century later... the whole issue would not be such a hot potato.

[Edited 2015-08-17 19:58:37]
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 36):
Not to drag discussion off-topic, but it takes two to tango. Perhaps if that one particular country was able to finally move on and wasn't still moaning about allleged injustices of Trianon almost a century later... the whole issue would not be such a hot potato.

The funniest part is that since this new law is in effect, only very few Slovak citizens lost their citizenship because of applying for citizenship of this particular country. Most people lost that lost their Slovak citizenship were applying for Czech citizenship simply because they were living there. Great way to ensure that expats will never return...

BTW, I personally couldn't care less. I'm not affected because I've received my Canadian citizenship several years before the new law came into effect. But it's a cheap and easy solution in case I decide I don't want to have Slovak citizenship anymore...

BTW2, the Trianon thing is not so clear cut either. It was a part of a string of criminally dumb things done by victors of WWI in order to punish Germany and the Austro-Hungarian empire for starting WWI. They led directly to WWII.
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:12 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 31):
No one has a problem with legal immigration, but there's no fight in that argument so if your opposed to illegal immigration then you are obviously a racist xenophobe opposed to all immigration.

Again, the point was that you assumed these people at the passport office were illegal "anchor baby" immigrants. That's what I took issue with.

Nowhere did I say (nor have I said anywhere else on this forum) that I support illegal immigration.
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:36 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 38):
Again, the point was that you assumed these people at the passport office were illegal "anchor baby" immigrants. That's what I took issue with

He said in Reply 9 they were going to windows specifically for people that weren't US nationals. What's wrong with the assumption?
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 39):
He said in Reply 9 they were going to windows specifically for people that weren't US nationals. What's wrong with the assumption?

The assumption that people in that office were illegals gaming the system to get citizenship or legal status.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:15 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 17):
Endless immigration is unsustainable. Time to make a change. Plenty of other countries have figured it out. It's long past our turn.

Just one question - by 2030, minus immigration, US population growth becomes net zero. According to the Census, people with incomes above $75K and high educational attainment have fewer than 2 children per household, statistically.

How do you propose to maintain US economic growth long term? Is the solution to adopt the immigration policies of Western European nations and Japan and mirror their horrible demographic outlook?

Just wondering.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:18 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 39):
He said in Reply 9 they were going to windows specifically for people that weren't US nationals. What's wrong with the assumption?

There are plenty of people in the US who are not citizens but are here legally...
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Beardown91737
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
Also the only First World country not to guarantee 100% health coverage via a single-payer like system, and where the average citizen can run around buck-wild with guns.

Haven't seen you complaining thereabout, so why the convenient use of this rationale now?

I realize that this is the subject-changing technique but I will fall for it long enough to crush your post into the ground. We sure can't have 100% health care with uncontrolled immigration, especially with the effect it has on keeping working people's paychecks low and the number of insureds it adds into the system.

Also, average citizens don't run around buck wild with guns. Yes, you said they "can", not they "do". Where "can" they do this? Arizona and New Hampshire? How many people live there? Where else? Not in California, not in Illinois. Even when open carry becomes legal in Texas in 2016, there are going to be so many places you can't carry, that a lot of people won't bother. Also you will need permission from the government in Texas to open carry.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
And how did YOUR ancestors get here?
This is nothing but xenophobic tripe. Shameful.

Do you even know what it means to be an American? Do you know where the following quote is inscribed?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Where it is has been answered. That place happens to be a sentinel that watched over immigrants arriving by sea on boats that discharged immigrants to the the people the immigrants wanted to see... the immigration authorities.

Where it isn't... San Diego, the Tohono O'odham Nation, the Texas side of the Rio Grande. Border ranches in all four southern border states. These are all places where immigrants arrive to evade the immigration process.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
More BS. They'll probably become taxpayers.

Probably? Maybe? Some day? How much tax? Sales tax? Oh good, maybe we won't need to borrow that $100 from China.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 33):
You are not alone in your views, some just do not have the courage to say it like Trump. 100 billion means nothing, what is more important, 100 billion or cheap labor for the wealthy and the exploiters? We all know the answer, cheap labor obviously. No union jobs obviously, no benefits obviously. That is what this is all about, cheap labor. E verify would also do wonders with this problem. Of course we know there are too many errors in the system. What a bunch of morons running this country oops! I mean stupid people.

This.

Both hurt. $100 billion is about $333 apiece, but it is also money not spent on schools or fire trucks or health clinics for the poor or homeless veterans.

The cheap labor for the exploiters depresses the labor market and pushes American workers out of entire industries. We didn't need any imported labor for construction. We had teenagers for restaurants and fast food and retail. Get away from the border states and big cities and you will see Americans working in the lodging industry.

We need controlled and fair immigration which doesn't cut the legs from under American workers.
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
We need controlled and fair immigration which doesn't cut the legs from under American workers.

Wall Street doesn't give two sh*ts. And so long as every President is appointing people to his Cabinet with deep connections to the Street, and SEC 'regulators' have 2-hour lunches with bank officials, they'll never have any reason to.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:28 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
I will fall for it long enough to crush your post into the ground.

Oh no, sooo scared, in the presence of this amazing piece of impending analysis. 


Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
We sure can't have 100% health care with uncontrolled immigration

Based on ____?

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
Yes, you said they "can", not they "do".

Which is why a rational person would stop there, as anything you say in refute will likely be invalidated by such. But by all means, continue.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
Where "can" they do this?

Ever heard of the southeast? Total dump, but rather tough to miss on a map.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
How many people live there?

When did population start to become a defining criterion to that??

....you sure did a lot of yammering, but not much "crushing."  
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mad99
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:13 am

Someone posted a reply on a previous thread explaining why the anchor baby is not the golden key to immigration. I think they can boot you out if they catch you even if you have one.

The business model is to allow illegals into the USA and accommodate them so imagine if they did not get citizenship by birth. You'd have millions of Mexican nationals inside the USA, 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation with no connection to Mexico and yet be second class citizens in the USA (restricted travel for example).
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:20 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 46):
You'd have millions of Mexican nationals inside the USA, 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation with no connection to Mexico

Anybody born of 1 parent that is a Mexican national, is automatically, a Mexican National. So any children that person has, wherever that 3th generation child is born, is a Mexican National. So I don´t see how they will have no Mexican connection.

As a matter of fact, double nationality in Mexico was allowed in the 90s, precisely to prevent any Mexican born in the US to become stateless, if some crackpot idea of expelling them was actually enacted.

I don´t understand where that "business model" idea comes from. It may apply to citizens from other countries. But it does not apply to Mexicans.
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:20 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Well, duh... Everyone knows that.

Never under estimate people's ignorance of their own country. Seems to me that there are quite a few people who think a President Trump could do just that with a stroke of a pen.

The whole birthright citizenship "issue" just shows how bankrupt of new ideas or tackling real issues the Trump campaign really is. Because as far as problems this country is facing birthright citizenship/immigration is way down on the list.
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blueflyer
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:30 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 31):
Meanwhile, nothing to see here in the U.S.. It's only costing us $100 billion or so a year.

Costing us $100 billions how exactly? Immigration, legal and illegal, has a net positive effect on Social Security (source: WSJ), so where does the cost come from?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 41):
Just one question - by 2030, minus immigration, US population growth becomes net zero.

Even with immigration, the evolution of the workers-to-retirees ratio is equally headed in the wrong direction. From 16 to 1 in 1950 to an estimated 3 to 1 in 20 years' time. Time to kiss Social Security good bye.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 43):
The cheap labor for the exploiters depresses the labor market and pushes American workers out of entire industries.

Farmers are paying as much as $17/hour with benefits and discounted lodging for field labor and still can't find enough takers. I'd say it's a market that is welcoming American workers with open arms, but it doesn't have air conditioning, unlike the $10/hour fast-food jobs (source: WSJ).

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 34):
The biggest problem with ending our birthright citizenship would be to cause serious chances of many to be stateless as not recognized by the USA by birth or as not born in their parent's home country, nor seen as a citizen there.

Which countries refuse to recognize Jus Sanguinis for children not born in the country of their parents?

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