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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 98):
Sorry I haven't seen the backend of a restaurant since I quit my dishwasher job when I graduated from High School in the upper middle class northern suburbs of Chicago. If you are in Southern California I think teenagers gave up on that kind of job around 1990 or so.

I don't know about Chicago, but in the West, everyone does everything: cook, dish washing, order taking, cashier, etc. Some high end places have employees work their way up to waitstaff, but everyone does everything. Before any of that can happen, they MUST be verified to be LEGALLY in the United States.

This is what these people are screaming about: have a program that already exists and make people use it that already use it. The right wingers want to spend more money to get the same results. Good plan. Spend more and blame Democrats. More of the same.
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Matt6461
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 99):
Really we hit people in our version of football in New Zealand.

If you're talking about rugby - Cheers mate. I've been playing since my American football career ended after college, when I was not quite massive enough for the pros (thank G-d, they would have killed me). It's starting to catch on here in the states.

I actually like rugby quite a bit more than American football. All I did in American football was try to control a little "box" on the field; in rugby everybody (even the thicker, slower blokes like me) gets to carry, pass, tackle, etc. I also love the tradition of the post-game "drink up" - friend and foe setting aside the on-field strife to have a pisser.  

And, apropos of the thread, rugby is another thing we owe to our relatively open immigration policy.
 
LMP737
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting hh65man (Reply 63):
Don't know why but this image comes to mind....

Is there a similar picture in Australia with Aborigines on it with the date 1788?  
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:44 am

The whole immigration issue is Trump's shiny metal object. It is meant to distract from the fact that he really has nothing in terms of real/practical ideas that might help this country. All he has done is rehash what other people have said and add a bit of vitriol and name calling to it.
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ltbewr
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:23 pm

Now several of the Republican candidates are saying 'me too' as to many of Trump's ideas as to dealing with illegal immigration, including ending US Birthright citizenship, despite its impossibility, to try to get some of his potential voters. There are some like Jeb Bush who is trying to be more nuanced, some like Christie who have openly and long objected to extensive walls between the USA and Mexico knowing they really wouldn't work.

Then there are those, including Trump, who who would push 'self-migration' by strict enforcement on employers. Democrats are basically taking the most humane policy, basically objecting to walls, finding ways to keep some families with USA born children here as well as persons here since children a way to become legal. Problem with both parties is that they support a strange mix of selective enforcement, but allowing illegals to enter to supply cheap workers for farming, ranching, and other jobs that are hard, pay poorly, irregular, as here illegally or under work permits cannot turn to law enforcement if something illegal or inhumane is going on with them. Many take jobs that USA legal residents and citizens refuse to do or don't as have access to better paying jobs in easier working conditions, welfare and other social benefits. Of course the working illegals enrich their employers who in turn bribe the politicians to keep the broken system going.

We have to realize that almost all immigrants, legal and illegal, come to the USA or as we have seen become a growing problem in Europe, for several basic reasons: To have an income offered by employment here that is not available or at sufficient pay to survive on in their home countries to support themselves and their families. To escape economic, political, ethnic, religious and racial discrimination, political corruption, environmental changes (like droughts), their economic and life survival. Access to basic benefits including health care. Control by a few 1/10 of 1'ers and big international corporations that limits economic opportunity, stolen land from people or uses machinery to displace jobs. Better would be to find ways people could stay in their home countries so many wouldn't have to leave. Sadly few politicians and voters want to think that way and want something they can see in weeks not years.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 93):
They'd have to wait 21 years, get approved for a visitor's visa, and prove that they didn't intend to come here only for the purpose of becoming U.S. lawful residents. See http://1.usa.gov/1NE1uHi (providing definition of "immediate relative" under U.S. immigration law - the only category into which parents of U.S. citizens fall);

21 days, 21 years. What does it matter?

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 93):
"Noun - offensive"Basic decency would, one expects, entail enough empathy to understand that migrant workers - legal or not - might have children during their years spent abroad. They might consider these children something analogous to "the meaning of life" or "my reason for living" in the same way that white Americans sometimes view their kids. To assume that all migrant workers view their children as an immigrant strategy shows appalling inability to imagine the lives of an entire group of people. I know these folks. I work with them professionally. Their kids are their lives, not their visas.

Anchor Baby. Its a noun. Offensive to people who abuse the system and their supporters. No one else.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 95):
Completely unrealistic on so many levels. Wouldn't it be easier to go to Microsoft, Cisco, Google, Salesforce and all the others and force them to hire only resident US citizens for specialist work?On the flipside you'd have to do the same with meatpacking, agribusiness and construction. Uh oh, Wall Street would quiver...

Unrealistic? What's the process if my wife has a kid while I'm working for a company in Japan?

I kinda like how Australia handles things. Its about right.

Speaking of offensive:

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 96):
Downscale conservatives are used to getting their way in the GOP on issues like abortion and gay rights. What they don't realize is this: the money behind the GOP will let the poor racist/homophobic/traditionalists that the party needs have their way unless and until it hits their pocketbooks. Immigration unambiguously benefits the rich (and everybody else), so the rich aren't going to let the poor have their way here.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:03 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 105):
Unrealistic? What's the process if my wife has a kid while I'm working for a company in Japan?

People without Japanese blood cannot be naturalized Japanese, period. So if your wife is not Japanese, your kid is nothing here.

Instead of straw man arguments though, can you answer the question I asked? Are you prepared to tell Wall Street what they want is wrong? Are you prepared to go after several industries and demand they hire only American resident citizens? Are you prepared to tell them that there are two options: a. stockholders and CEOs can keep consumer prices where they are and accept less profits as the cost of adjusting pay resulting from these changes or b. consumers will have to pay more for certain things than they already do

Go for it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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PITingres
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:32 pm

LOL. This is all so lame. Where's the problem? Any "anchor baby" who doesn't stay in the US and become a taxpayer will find his or her citizenship more of a curse than a blessing. If they stay, then so what? Oh right, the problem is that they aren't angry white guys.

So let's solve another omigod problem that doesn't actually exist -- right up there with voter fraud. (Never mind the REAL voting problem, which is crap voting machines that can be diddled with no paper trail, like the ones that Virginia just finally got rid of.)
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 106):

People without Japanese blood cannot be naturalized Japanese, period. So if your wife is not Japanese, your kid is nothing here.

Instead of straw man arguments though, can you answer the question I asked? Are you prepared to tell Wall Street what they want is wrong? Are you prepared to go after several industries and demand they hire only American resident citizens? Are you prepared to tell them that there are two options: a. stockholders and CEOs can keep consumer prices where they are and accept less profits as the cost of adjusting pay resulting from these changes or b. consumers will have to pay more for certain things than they already do

Go for it.


What are you even talking about? This thread is about discontinuing birthright citizenship in the U.S..
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
vin2basketball
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 105):
Anchor Baby. Its a noun. Offensive to people who abuse the system and their supporters. No one else.

Okay fine let me simplify this question. There are millions of doctors, engineers, entrepreneurs (holla), scientists, and other net contributors to tax revenue and the economy that are of Asian, African, South American, even Central American/Mexican descent. These are first generation children who have birthright citizenship from the exact scenario which you suggested should be outlawed. Would the country on net be better or worse off if those people were instead citizens of India/China/South Korea/etc. and took their talents there?

It's a term that is highly offensive to me, at least as you define it. I've represented our country at international sporting tournaments and sung its praises the world over, paid taxes, contributed to the economy and society. And accordingly, I very much so resent that term.
 
N1120A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 108):

What are you even talking about? This thread is about discontinuing birthright citizenship in the U.S..

Which involves changing one of the two most important amendments to the Constitution. Good luck.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:55 pm

Should birthright citizenship change? Probably. Will it change? Probably not regardless of Trump.

Should the immigration process be streamlined to disincentive undocumented immigration? Absolutely. Will any politician actually have the balls to do it? Probably not.

Will said immigration reforms completely solve all immigration related issues? Doubtful.

More importantly going forward immigration will be crucial in terms of hedging the impact of a graying population.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 111):
Should birthright citizenship change? Probably. Will it change? Probably not regardless of Trump.

Should the immigration process be streamlined to disincentive undocumented immigration? Absolutely. Will any politician actually have the balls to do it? Probably not.

Will said immigration reforms completely solve all immigration related issues? Doubtful.

More importantly going forward immigration will be crucial in terms of hedging the impact of a graying population.

Yes to all but the last issue. I'm sure all the 20 somethings still living at home would like to answer the last issue.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 108):
What are you even talking about? This thread is about discontinuing birthright citizenship in the U.S..

I'm asking because my points are the backstory to the hodgepodge of current immigration laws, their lackluster enforcement, and why nobody wants to really make changes in this arena politically.

If you care about this issue as much as you claim, your target should be the forces preventing any actual change from occurring, not going on about anchor babies.

If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N1120A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 111):

Should birthright citizenship change? Probably.

No.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 112):

Yes to all but the last issue. I'm sure all the 20 somethings still living at home would like to answer the last issue.

That would require student loan reform and a return of skilled manufacturing jobs. Good luck on the former. The latter has been happening. Has frack all to do with undocumented labor.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 114):
No.

Why should someone be granted citizenship just because they were in the US at the time of their birth, regardless of circumstance?
 
N1120A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:18 am

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 115):
Why should someone be granted citizenship just because they were in the US at the time of their birth, regardless of circumstance?

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Caryjack
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
Dual citizenship is an interesting concept. No country recognize it because each country is only concerned with its own citizenry. Some countries tell their citizens they can't hold another citizenship, but what can they do about it if they don't know it ?

Not sure what the advantage is....A Korean family I know of visited the home country with their kids who had a duel citizenship (US). The young man remained to fulfill his military obligation, 2 years I think.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
Of course with a place of birth in the US, you have a problem.

What sort of problem do you have when you're born in the USA?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
If they're not citizens, then they're not responsible for your laws.

Not sure what to make of this but when I'm in Nicaragua I'm damn sure subject to Ortega's thugs.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):
I don't know whether, in this context, birthright citizenship is harming or helping the US economy as a whole, but at least Trump has the merit of reigniting the debate.
Let's just hope he's never in a position to do anything about it and leaves it to competent people..

Trump has said that he intends to challenge the 14th amendment's application to birthright citizenship in the courts. He will not attempt a constitutional amendment.
Given his success, I think Trump will surround himself with highly competent people.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
And die from starvation, disease, or war.

Sad but true. Imagine if a 1000 mile wide land bridge existed between Africa and Europe.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 33):
We all know the answer, cheap labor obviously. No union jobs obviously, no benefits obviously.

Don't forget the voters. Remember, these folks don't require an ID, can register voting day and cannot be asked if they are legal.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 35):
It's funny being labelled "a racist xenophobe opposed to all immigration" while being a naturalized legal immigrant.

Get used to it, freedom isn't free....Welcome to America.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 49):
Farmers are paying as much as $17/hour with benefits and discounted lodging for field labor and still can't find enough takers.

Sounds like an opportunity for a jobs program. I'd like to see something worked up for intercity younger people, especially those with no job skills.

Quoting hh65man (Reply 50):
I guess these words immortalized at Lady Liberty don't really reflect how the seemilingy masses in the US think and feel. My best advice would be to start teaching your children Spanish.

I vote for this. Anyone who speaks English and Spanish can get along in most parts of the world...although both are worthless in China.  

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 51):
If a teenager can't get a summer job that's on them.

Maybe, but organized work camps in agricultural areas would certainly work.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 54):
Many countries, however -- like the US -- have essentially a live and let live system. I myself have three.

just curious, have you been entangled by conflicting duties or loyalties? I mentioned the Korean fellow I knew and I also knew an Indian fellow who traveled from Seattle to Vancouver BC and was not allowed to return. I don't know what went wrong but he left behind a family, a house and a very nice job.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 65):
Yeah - I'm sure changing the 14th Amendment will go over REALLY well.

Trump intends to attack the application of the amendment, not its existence.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 67):
And to you, legal or illegal immigration is the same.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 67):
At your own detriment. Immigrants will still be heading the US´s way. The economy has a demand for them and the private sector likes them. They are not too keen on cracking on that.

No one should object to legal immigrants but the illegals must be stopped.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 70):
Quoting D L X (Reply 68):
Unless you're 100% Native American

Why do people keep saying this?

They immigrated here, just like all other humans....

...granted, with a significant head start.
But still, no human in the Americas (or anywhere other than east Africa) is a "native."

  You're right of course. Why do they say it? It's that lazy, bumper sticker mentality.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 75):
Trump's proposal would never happen in the current political climate anyway, as it would require a constitutional amendment.

No. His plan is to find a sympathetic federal judge then take the appeals up the chain. He'll win or lose on this one in the courts.

Quoting victrola (Reply 84):
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of these illegal immigrants probably contribute more to the the U.S. economy than a lot of our deadbeat native born American citizens who have spent their entire lives collecting welfare and breeding another generation of native born American citizens who will continue collecting welfare.

No doubt that illegals are hungry but if those folks weren't here, others would be recruited to fill vacancies. The value of young people holding jobs and seeing a paycheck cannot be overstated.

Quoting victrola (Reply 84):
They are also unable to benefit from the bankruptcy laws of which Donald Trump has taken advantage so many times.

Trump said that 5 of his more than 1000 businesses have gone bankrupt. He himself has never been bankrupt, according to Trump.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 107):
Where's the problem? Any "anchor baby" who doesn't stay in the US and become a taxpayer will find his or her citizenship more of a curse than a blessing. If they stay, then so what?

The purpose of the anchor is to tether an extended family to the USA.
What's the curse you're referring to?

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 111):
Should birthright citizenship change? Probably. Will it change? Probably not regardless of Trump.
Should the immigration process be streamlined to disincentive undocumented immigration? Absolutely. Will any politician actually have the balls to do it? Probably not.
Will said immigration reforms completely solve all immigration related issues? Doubtful.

I think Texas Governor Rick Perry (GOP presidential candidate) said it best...."Secure the border first, then work out a plan for the rest. Without a secure border everything else is just hot air."

Thanks,  
Cary
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 117):
"Secure the border first, then work out a plan for the rest. Without a secure border everything else is just hot air."

So, the same right wing rhetoric:

Let's repeal ACA first, and find a good replacement later.
Let's gut IRS and find a good alternative later.
Let's defund schools and find a good alternative later.
Let's slash taxes across the board and find a way to pay for several wars later.

It is always later with them. Why not enforce the laws already on the books? I know the right hates that idea for some reason, but it seemed to do wonders for Reagan's reputation.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Caryjack
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 118):
So, the same right wing rhetoric:

It looks to me like the lack of rhetoric. Perry simply says that until the border is secured nothing else matters. He was the Governer of Texas for (I think) 12 years so he certainty understands border problems.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 118):
Why not enforce the laws already on the books?

Perry must think that securing the border will keep people from illegally entering the USA.
Thanks,   
Cary
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 119):
he certainty understands border problems.

California has dealt with border problems for decades. This problem came to light most recently when an underling in San Francisco requested an illegal be transferred from federal prison to San Francisco on a decades old marijuana charge, then released to the streets. Before that, very few people were talking much about illegals.

I have seen the fence at San Diego and pictures of the fence at Brownsville, Texas. I am pretty sure a boat load of people could easily launch from a Mexican beach under cover of the night and row around it. Then what?
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PITingres
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 117):
The purpose of the anchor is to tether an extended family to the USA.
What's the curse you're referring to?

It's still a non problem. I'd recommend finding an actual problem to worry about, like maybe groundwater depletion, or the breath-taking insecurity of most current electronic voting machines.

The curse I'm referring to are the US taxation and bank account reporting regulations, which will continue to apply regardless of residency, and can be extremely onerous for a non-resident. Google for FBAR and FATCA.
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N1120A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 119):
He was the Governer of Texas for (I think) 12 years so he certainty understands border problems.

Yeah - that Latinos don't vote for him.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 119):
Perry simply says that until the border is secured nothing else matters.

Perry doesn't know what he's talkingabout.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 119):

Perry must think that securing the border will keep people from illegally entering the USA.

Perry must be on drugs if he thinks that:

1) The Southern border can be "secured" to the point that no illegal crossings happen.

and

2) That people who come on airplanes, or are inspected at land borders, don't end up undocumented.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 117):
Trump intends to attack the application of the amendment, not its existence.

This issue has been settled for...wait for it...117 years. ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTEEN YEARS.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Caryjack
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 93):
Every other nation thinks "football" means you can't hit people.

Thats funny.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 110):
Which involves changing one of the two most important amendments to the Constitution.

Just curious, what's the first.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 120):
I have seen the fence at San Diego and pictures of the fence at Brownsville, Texas. I am pretty sure a boat load of people could easily launch from a Mexican beach under cover of the night and row around it. Then what?

Then nothing...which is Perry's point. Without a secure border all the talk about anchor babies, work visas, returning felons, etc. is just that: talk.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 121):
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 117):
The purpose of the anchor is to tether an extended family to the USA.
It's still a non problem.

It's 1 of the many problems that comes with a border that's not secure. Secure the border and it mostly goes away.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 122):
Perry must be on drugs if he thinks that:

1) The Southern border can be "secured" to the point that no illegal crossings happen.

and

2) That people who come on airplanes, or are inspected at land borders, don't end up undocumented.

Perry is not on drugs. He is/was the Governor of a southern border state that dealt with illegal immigrants for the entire 12 years of his governorship. No border can be secured (land, sea or air) to the point that no illegal crossings happen. Even the North Koreans can't do that.  

Quoting N1120A (Reply 122):
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 117):
Trump intends to attack the application of the amendment, not its existence.
This issue has been settled for...wait for it...117 years. ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTEEN YEARS.

Fine, let him fail.

Thanks,   
Cary
 
LMP737
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Just watch the liberal media go ape-shit. He will be called racist, and all sorts of vile crap. Ironic that after 6+ years of Obama all of a sudden they will become concerned with the Constitution...

That's exactly what he is. How is what he's been saying any different than what people in this country were saying about Italian, Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, or Polish immigrants in this country 100-150 years ago? And what was it based on back then? Good old fashioned racism.

[Edited 2015-08-21 01:11:06]
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 124):
That's exactly what he is. How is what he's been saying any different than what people in this country were saying about Italian, Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, or Polish immigrants in this country 100-150 years ago? And what was it based on back then? Good old fashioned racism.

Yes it was - but they entered legally - via Ellis Island or otherwise. We are talking about trying to slow illegal immigration. The way you do that is by giving significant advantages to legal immigrants (such as the possibility of obtaining US citizenship) which will forever be denied if you come in legally.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
910A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 123):
He is/was the Governor of a southern border state that dealt with illegal immigrants for the entire 12 years of his governorship.

Actually illegal immigrants wasn't a priority for Gov. Perry until late in his time as Governor.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/...-rick-perrys-record-on-the-border/
http://www.salon.com/2015/02/27/rick...border_security_tough_guy_at_cpac/

The powers of the Governor of Texas is one of the weakest of all Governors in the United States. The Legislature holds the power in Texas. Random note here, the Governor of Georgia is supposed to have the weakest executive powers of any Governorship.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 125):
Yes it was - but they entered legally - via Ellis Island or otherwise. We are talking about trying to slow illegal immigration

Do you think the Chinese that built the trans-contiental railroad came to America legally?

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/27/rick...border_security_tough_guy_at_cpac/
An estimated 11.3 million unauthorized immigrants lived in the U.S. in 2014, according to a new preliminary Pew Research Center estimate based on government data. This population has remained essentially stable for five years after nearly two decades of changes.

As a side note Asians have overtaken hispanics has the #1 group of immigrants to the United States legally or illegally.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:48 pm

Quoting 910A (Reply 126):
Do you think the Chinese that built the trans-contiental railroad came to America legally?

I believe they did. According to Wikipedia: The entry of the Chinese into the United States was, to begin with, legal and uncomplicated and even had a formal judicial basis in 1868 with the signing of the Burlingame Treaty between the United States and China. But there were differences compared with the policy for European immigrants, in that if the Chinese migrants had children born in the United States, those children would automatically acquire American citizenship. However, the immigrants themselves would remain as foreigners indefinitely. Unlike European immigrants the possibility of naturalization was withheld from the Chinese.

Quoting 910A (Reply 126):
As a side note Asians have overtaken hispanics has the #1 group of immigrants to the United States legally or illegally.

What's your point? The same rules should apply to all.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
Mir
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
To do so would require a Constitutional amendment.... and "Trump" might be an overinflated brand/ego, but it's not 3/4ths of the states.

Well, duh... Everyone knows that.

Apparently not, since conservatives are now rallying around the idea that they don't have to amend the Constitution to get what they want, because they can simply get the courts to interpret the Constitution differently.

Oh sweet, sweet irony.

-Mir
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D L X
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 87):
It wasn't a question of breaking a law. It was a simple question of should people be taking advantage of our laws while thousands wait in line.

These people ARE waiting in line. That's what you don't seem to get.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 87):
I ignored your rants because you're too busy yelling at anyone that doesn't accept your world view.

Don't shift blame. I didn't yell at "anyone that doesn't accept [my] world view." I called YOU out specifically, and only you. Because only you (at that point at least) had lumped all immigrants in together, and said it all needs to stop.

That's xenophobia bub.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 87):
By the way, your entire outrage was sparked by the term "anchor baby".

Uh, no. I never complained about your terminology. Try reading it this time.
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 127):
What's your point? The same rules should apply to all.

Trump said that all Hispanics are rapists, drug dealers and murdered and all Hispanics are illegal.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:29 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 130):
Trump said that all Hispanics are rapists, drug dealers and murdered and all Hispanics are illegal.

Oh god, stop with the cheap exaggeration. Sure his statement was poorly worded, but give me a quote where he said "all".

And you can't deny that there are a lot of undesirables that do come - that would not be allowed in if everyone had to use legal entry means.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:17 am

Some Conservative/right wing commentators are not supporting the end of USA's Birthright Citizenship. They know it would be near impossible to do so and turn off from their party future voters, particularly Hispanic/Latinos, as White voters decline in proportion of voters.
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 125):
Yes it was - but they entered legally - via Ellis Island or otherwise.

So your saying yes it's racism but it's okay because they are illegal.

quote=Dreadnought,reply=125]but they entered legally - via Ellis Island or otherwise.[/quote]

I know from personal experience that is not entirely true. My grandfather went by an assumed name for a number of years when he came here. Why, because he jumped ship in New York harbor. I.E. he came here illegally.
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 131):
Sure his statement was poorly worded,

To the point it pissed off an entire race. Not just a few activists but an entire race of LEGAL citizens. He also made it sound like Mexico is demanding all it's citizens leave Mexico and enter the United States. Which is simply not true. Some of those who come are from Central and South America. Trump, and those who think he is king, think that the only problem is Mexico.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 131):
you can't deny that there are a lot of undesirables that do come - that would not be allowed in if everyone had to use legal entry means.

And, yet, murder, rape, drug deals, and child porn still happen by both foreign born citizens within the United States and legal United States citizens. What does that tell you?
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N1120A
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 123):
Just curious, what's the first.

I said one of the two, not the second most important. The two most important Amendments are the First and Fourteenth. Followed by, in no order, the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Thirteenth, Fifteenth, Nineteenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Fourth and Twenty-Sixth.

Quoting D L X (Reply 129):
These people ARE waiting in line. That's what you don't seem to get.

And will never get.
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting PITingres (Reply 121):
The curse I'm referring to are the US taxation and bank account reporting regulations, which will continue to apply regardless of residency, and can be extremely onerous for a non-resident. Google for FBAR and FATCA.

Wow, it certainly could be a curse. Foreign Bank Account Reports and a Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act?!!. Those could make for a nasty wake-up call from the IRS for some unsuspecting expatriate.

Quoting 910A (Reply 126):
Actually illegal immigrants wasn't a priority for Gov. Perry until late in his time as Governor.

Border security should not be an issue for any state governor, that's the responsibility of the Feds. Perry got involved because he didn't think the Feds were doing their job. I think the courts and the President disagreed with him.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 135):
I said one of the two

Yes you did. I noticed that but it was too late to edit. Thanks for your opinion.
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bjorn14
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

I will let all the immigrants stay at your house.

Illegal immigration is like letting an arrested burglar keep what he stole from your house.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 137):
Illegal immigration is like letting an arrested burglar keep what he stole from your house.

Well, whatever right? The folks on Wall Street think laws are malleable and always have, and that's why they're perfectly OK with continuing the status quo.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-deportation-party-1439853705

Look no further than US Chamber of Commerce statements on amnesty and immigration reform, going all the way back to 1986. Nothing will change.
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D L X
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 137):

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

I will let all the immigrants stay at your house.

Illegal immigration is like letting an arrested burglar keep what he stole from your house.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein

I'm not talking about illegal immigration, and neither is the person in responding to.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 139):
I'm not talking about illegal immigration, and neither is the person in responding to.

Illegal immigration is the central issue of this entire thread.
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 140):
Illegal immigration is the central issue of this entire thread.

So I'll quote myself from reply 91, and repeat an unanswered question to another forumer:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 91):
Just wondering - why aren't you guys more focused on going after the business/policy cabal that doesn't want of these laws changed and got the first amnesty through in 1986?

They laugh all the way to the bank while everyone engages in these partisan diatribes.

Instead of targeting politicians with opposing views, you guys so pissed off about rule of law and whatever should be targeting K-street, Wall Street, and the US CoC. WSJ editorials are staunchly against immigration changes as well.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 141):
Instead of targeting politicians with opposing views, you guys so pissed off about rule of law and whatever should be targeting K-street, Wall Street, and the US CoC. WSJ editorials are staunchly against immigration changes as well.

Why do you think the Tea Party and other GOP candidates who don't tow the standard GOP rulebook have gotten so popular the past few years. The establishment GOP is far too cozy with groups like the Chamber of Commerce, who, as you have pointed out, are just fine with uncontrolled immigration, as it keeps non-skilled wages low.

Personally, I would be more than willing to pay double for oranges and lawn care if that reflects the going wage of the labor involved when employing only legal residents and/or citizens.
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:44 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 142):
Personally, I would be more than willing to pay double for oranges and lawn care if that reflects the going wage of the labor involved when employing only legal residents and/or citizens.

Perhaps *that* is the populist message that would need to gain traction across America instead of pitting groups against each other, which maintains the status quo better than anything.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 142):
Why do you think the Tea Party and other GOP candidates who don't tow the standard GOP rulebook have gotten so popular the past few years.

OK that's great but they don't have the funding to really take on moneyed special interests, so still at square one, right?
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D L X
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 140):

Quoting D L X (Reply 139):
I'm not talking about illegal immigration, and neither is the person in responding to.

Illegal immigration is the central issue of this entire thread.


That fact would not change what the person I responded to said, now would it?
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 142):
I would be more than willing to pay double for oranges and lawn care if that reflects the going wage of the labor involved when employing only legal residents and/or citizens.

People say that, but then they actually get hit with the bill and they look for cheaper alternatives.
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StarAC17
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:38 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 134):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 131):
Sure his statement was poorly worded,

To the point it pissed off an entire race. Not just a few activists but an entire race of LEGAL citizens. He also made it sound like Mexico is demanding all it's citizens leave Mexico and enter the United States. Which is simply not true. Some of those who come are from Central and South America. Trump, and those who think he is king, think that the only problem is Mexico.

What was said was absolutely intentional and seb to clarify he said that Mexico is complicit in sending rapists, murderers and drug dealers to the US because they don't want to deal with them.

He has backed up this repeatedly since saying he wants to fine Mexico $100,000 for every illegal to make them pay for the wall.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 142):
Why do you think the Tea Party and other GOP candidates who don't tow the standard GOP rulebook have gotten so popular the past few years. The establishment GOP is far too cozy with groups like the Chamber of Commerce, who, as you have pointed out, are just fine with uncontrolled immigration, as it keeps non-skilled wages low.

The establishment of both parties right now is bought off by the same interests which is why Sanders and Trump are leading, that is a good thing and I would love the race. I want to see a Sanders vs Trump race because they are the least bought off and it would be awesome. People do not want to see Hillary or any of the other yahoo's running on the GOP and it would be entertaining to see.

My guilty reason for seeing Trump be the nominee is that as long as the military prevents him from starting world war 3 and he is facing Sanders the big money and the evangelicals have got squat.
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 146):
Mexico is complicit in sending rapists, murderers and drug dealers to the US because they don't want to deal with them.

The problem is emotions. Main stream media in this country focuses on the rapists, murdered, and drug dealers which are very few in number compared to those who actually want a better life. Add in those from Central America as opposed to those from Mexico and the number shrinks. What Trump did is genius and scary at the same time: he managed to put several nationalities under one umbrella and under one label and get the right to hate a bunch of people with no knowledge of anything.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 146):
My guilty reason for seeing Trump be the nominee is that as long as the military prevents him from starting world war 3 and he is facing Sanders the big money and the evangelicals have got squat.

Again: emotion. When Trump says "Sanders will..." that says much more than "Give me a Congress I can work with so we can..." Facts are boring. Rhetoric is god.
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AA7295
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:18 pm

And just when we thought that the law just for illegals? Pregnant Chinese tourists are heading to the US to give their children US citizenship.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...tourists-business-strong/24887837/

Come on, any intelligent person can see that in its current state, US birthright citizenship is being exploited.
 
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RE: Trump To End Birthright US Citizenship

Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 146):
The establishment of both parties right now is bought off by the same interests which is why Sanders and Trump are leading, that is a good thing and I would love the race. I want to see a Sanders vs Trump race because they are the least bought off and it would be awesome. People do not want to see Hillary or any of the other yahoo's running on the GOP and it would be entertaining to see.

I've already seen the new Terminatory and Jurassic Park, that's all the 90's revival I need.

I wanna see Bernie and Donald because Bernie has been preaching about buying policiticans for years, and Donald's so rich that he doesn't need to take a "donation to his foundation"

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