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Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:14 pm

For those that follow motor racing, it was another sad day yesterday and Indy car driver Justin Wilson was involved in a freak incident. Following a crash by race leader Sage Karam car which crashed in front of him during the final laps of the ABC Supply 500 at Pocono Raceway.

Karam was leading when his No. 8 Chip Ganassi Racing Chevrolet spun on its own in Turn 1 on Lap 179 of the 200 lap race. As parts from his car littered the track, one of the pieces appeared to strike Wilson, who was trailing.

Wilson's car immediately veered into the left and into the inside wall on the exit of Turn 1. Safety workers immediately arrived and frantically worked to extricate Wilson from the No. 25 Andretti Autosport Honda.

Wilson was taken to hospital by ambulance and is now in a coma suffering severe head injury.

According to a statement just released by IndyCar, Justin Wilson is in a coma:

"Wilson sustained a severe head injury during today's event at Pocono Raceway.

Wilson is currently in a coma and in critical condition while undergoing further evaluation at Lehigh Valley Health Network Cedar Crest Hospital in Allentown, Pa.

IndyCar sends its thoughts and prayers to Justin, his family and Andretti Autosport during this difficult time.

Additional updates to Wilson's condition will be released when available."

According to Brant James of USA TODAY Sports, winner of the ABC Supply 500 Ryan Hunter-Reay was told Justin Wilson is unconscious and unresponsive:


Our thoughts and prayers go out to Wilson and his family at this difficult time.
 
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mad99
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:55 pm

I saw this earlier today, sad news.
Open wheel racing with your head exposed is dangerous but with a simple bar(s) a lot of these type of injuries would be avoided.

Bouncing wheels or when cars roll over guardrails for example.
 
CXB77L
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:37 pm

I just saw this on the news. This is terrible; I sincerely hope that Wilson can make a full recovery. But unfortunately, we won't know the prognosis for quite some time.
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:01 pm

Yesterday was a really bad day for motorsports.

Apart from this accident there was also an accident during Sunday's Polish league meetings
where Australian speedwayrider Darcy Ward crashed and injured himself severely.
Initial reports says broken cervical spine between vertebrae C6 and C7, resulting in paralysis below the waist.

http://speedwaygp.com/news/article/4392/darcy-ward-latest
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larshjort
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:24 pm

Wilson was hit in the head by the nosecone from Karems car. The nosecone weighs roughly 20kg according to some estimates I have seen. This includes 26lb of bassat used to move the weight distribution forward.

Hopefully he will recover. It was a hard hit to the helmet and a very sudden stop straight into the concrete wall

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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:02 pm

It reminds me of Massa's accident a few years back, when a spring from Barrichello's car hit his helmet. He was knocked unconscious, but fortunately he escaped a more severe injury.

I hope Justin pulls through   

Quoting mad99 (Reply 1):
Open wheel racing with your head exposed is dangerous but with a simple bar(s) a lot of these type of injuries would be avoided.

It could have helped Jules, but I'm not sure if it would have helped Justin in this case. The only real viable solution to prevent accidents like these is to close the cockpits.

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 3):
Yesterday was a really bad day for motorsports.

There's also a 15-year-old kid who died in Oschersleben during a bike race yesterday.

Plus, Guy Ligier died too (though of natuaral causes - he was 85 - but still, he was an important part of Formula 1's history).

Quoting larshjort (Reply 4):
The nosecone weighs roughly 20kg according to some estimates I have seen

Not to mention that the initial weight must be multiplied by the speed of Justin's car.
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PSA53
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:22 am

Sadly,it was just reported that Wilson has past away.R.I.P Justin.
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:06 am

Very sad news indeed. RIP Justin.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:46 am

A devastating news. RIP Justin. Prayers to your family and friends.

What a terrible summer in motorsports  
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andrej
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:36 am

Wow....just saw the video. What a waste, this is one is definitely a freaky accident. Very sad news, RIP Justin.  

Will the motorsport regulations push for a change of an open cockpit concept? At least two lives were lost, it should be at least considered. I understand that some will be against it, some for. But some thought should be given to such topic.
 
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:58 am

Quoting larshjort (Reply 4):
This includes 26lb of bassat used to move the weight distribution forward.

Ballast in a piece of the car that can break off, Ballast forward of the front wheels to improve the weight distribution, That Indycar design is more screwed up than it looks.. which is some achievement
How about a little decent race car engineering?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:22 am

I posted in the F1 thread. I did not see this thread.

I thought he would make it... but not.

This is very sad news.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...of-head-injuries-sustained-in-race

Motorsport can be so cruel. RIP.

     
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:42 am

F1 French GP Magny-Cours 2003 - Saturday Qualifying - Justin Wilson On board Lap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3tiAXVJ73g

              
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diverted
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:44 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):
Ballast in a piece of the car that can break off, Ballast forward of the front wheels to improve the weight distribution, That Indycar design is more screwed up than it looks.. which is some achievement
How about a little decent race car engineering?

Yeah no kidding...

RIP Justin...what a freak accident
 
Okie
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:08 pm

RIP Justin Wilson.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):
Ballast in a piece of the car that can break off, Ballast forward of the front wheels to improve the weight distribution, That Indycar design is more screwed up than it looks.. which is some achievement
How about a little decent race car engineering?

The concept is to put the weight forward so there is more mechanical advantage and to have less weight.
Putting the weight forward is designed to start dissipating as much mass as soon as possible in a crash so the driver of the car is protected and control the deceleration rate/energy that the driver is exposed.

The process has successfully worked hundreds upon hundreds of times. Otherwise there would be a lot of seriously injured and fatalities that racing has experienced in the past.
Quite simply drivers are walking away from 200mph crashes with no injuries while the cars break up and expend the energy and we have become so attune to the safety involved that when something does go wrong we are surprised.

Now it looks like there is going to some efforts to deal with the debris that is encountered at 200mph by the other drivers not involved in the original incident in open wheel/cockpit.

Like it or not, safety wise, racing of all types and their organizations are really doing a damn good job.

Okie
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 14):
Putting the weight forward is designed to start dissipating as much mass as soon as possible in a crash so the driver of the car is protected and control the deceleration rate/energy that the driver is exposed.

Ok, but maybe they should put the ballast somewhere else than in the nose. It's an exposed part that can rip off easily. And when it's flying, the additional mass will increase the damage to another driver's head.

Quoting Okie (Reply 14):
Like it or not, safety wise, racing of all types and their organizations are really doing a damn good job.

They are. Thankfully we're not in a situation like 40+ years ago.
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Okie
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 15):
It's an exposed part that can rip off easily. And when it's flying, the additional mass will increase the damage to another driver's head

It is designed to crush and absorb the energy.
It is a catch catch situation. You add more mass behind the crush zone you have to add more weight/structure to the nose piece crush zone that you moved behind it although I doubt it would be anywhere 1 for 1.

Every organization that I have dealt with has a some pretty strict requirements on weight boxes/ballast mounting.
I have no idea what Indycar regulations are for weight/ballast.
I have no doubt that Indycar will do plenty of research but I suspect their solution will end up being some type of enclosure.
There are just too many other parts and pieces besides ballast that could end up in the cockpit.

Okie
 
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:37 am

First of all, RIP to Justin Wilson, sympathies to his family and the larger 'Indycar' family. It has been reported that up to 6 people got parts from him for transplants possibly saving their lives. Let us hope his death will improve the safety of racing.

I wonder if Indycar will consider not holding Sunday's race at Sonoma, either ending the season as of Pocono, or having it a week or 2 later. Considering that Wilson's funeral will be later in the week, that the Andretti Motorsports team in particular and other drivers might not want to participate as not in the right mood to do so, it might be best to not race at Sonoma.

There were too many crashes in this race and too many in recent races, including by experienced and rookie drivers, like Sage Karam, who's crash at Pocono put out the debris that hit Wilson and leading to his death. We have seen too many cars take off from the track at the speed of a fighter jet or go into driving into walls, fences, injuring drivers and spectators.

While Indycar has made major moves to improve car and driver safety, they need to better recognize the reality of physics and what human bodies can take, they need to consider several ideas short and longer term:

First, lower the speed of the cars by 20-30 MPH on big oval tracks and slight less on small ovals and some road tracks. That can be easily done with reducing fuel flow or max turbo boost. That would at least reduce some of the severity of crashes when they happened or even reduce some as drivers would be in better control.

Second, and would take longer would be aerodynamic changes to reduce speeds and improve control on curves/turns.

Third, shorten oval track races but for the Indy 500. Perhaps Pocono, if Indycar continues there, should be a 350-400 mile race. Shorter races might mean fewer opportunists for crashes, less problems from driver fatigue and more fan friendly.

Fourth, consider that some tracks are just not safe for Indycar style racing and cars, even if speeds are significantly cut.

Ideas such as canopies, tethers for some body parts, would take a lot of research to make sure don't have their own issues and should be done.
 
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mad99
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 15):
Ok, but maybe they should put the ballast somewhere else than in the nose.

Balist is typically behind the driver or under the knees, not in the nose. The nose would be the last place for it.





Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
It has been reported that up to 6 people got parts from him for transplants possibly saving their lives.

something positive comes out of this.

I like open wheel racing and see no reason not to add something to protect the driver's head.
 
Flighty
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:55 pm

I wish car racing were more about engineering. You can have exciting racing at slow speeds if you make it about technology, not death-defying speed. See who can win a 300 mile race on 1 gallon of gas. RIP to the driver.
 
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
First, lower the speed of the cars by 20-30 MPH on big oval tracks and slight less on small ovals and some road tracks.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
Second, and would take longer would be aerodynamic changes to reduce speeds and improve control on curves/turns.

Both of these are the wrong answer. You slow the cars down and give them more grip, you end up with a pack of cars, which is exactly what killed Dan Wheldon. You need to add more power, less grip, so that they have to slow down more in the corners to make it.

The whole incident is unfortunate, but honestly, the odds of it happening were extremely low.
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):

I wish car racing were more about engineering. You can have exciting racing at slow speeds if you make it about technology, not death-defying speed. See who can win a 300 mile race on 1 gallon of gas.




Not sure if "exciting" is the word.
Interesting, to see technology compete? Sure!

But how is racing exciting without spectacular car handling and some ruthless overtaking??

By the way: statistics suggest F1 is quite a bit safer than Indy.

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DiamondFlyer
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 21):
Not sure if "exciting" is the word.
Interesting, to see technology compete? Sure!

But how is racing exciting without spectacular car handling and some ruthless overtaking??

By the way: statistics suggest F1 is quite a bit safer than Indy.

Exactly, when was the last time you've seen 7 wide in Formula 1? Formula 1 might be safer, but boy is it boring. Without the unfortunate incident, that Pocono race was one of the most exciting Indycar race I've seen in years.

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Okie
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 18):
Balist is typically behind the driver or under the knees, not in the nose. The nose would be the last place for it.

You are correct only in the sense that Indycar adds ballast to equalize the drivers weights that is added behind the or under/beside the seat. That does not have anything to do with the rest of the car.

I do not know what the weights are now but I believe it used to be 185lbs. So a 160lbs driver gets 25lbs added to the back of the seat or beside it.

Other forms of racing that I am familiar there is no driver equalization only the minimum weight of the vehicle. You put a 190lb driver on a diet and get him down to 160lb. The seat area is the last place you want 30 additional pounds. Think moment arm of the weight, corner to cross corner on weight distribution.


Okie
 
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
See who can win a 300 mile race on 1 gallon of gas

...the only problem being that such a race would be no fun at all.

I want to see top level racing where engineering matters and it isn't just a spec series, but a mileage contest would be awful. It needs to be about speed.

I do support pit rules stipulating that other work cannot go on while refueling so that there is a legitimate tradeoff with mileage, but that's about all.
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:16 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):

...the only problem being that such a race would be no fun at all.

I want to see top level racing where engineering matters and it isn't just a spec series, but a mileage contest would be awful. It needs to be about speed.

I agree....exactly what I said.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 22):

Exactly, when was the last time you've seen 7 wide in Formula 1?

I don't think this is physically possible in 98% of the asphalt they use.
Nor is F1 about that, mind you. I assume you know that.
It is like comparing American football and football...it is in fact quite different.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 22):
Formula 1 might be safer, but boy is it boring.

Well, the problem with that is that the large majority worldwide disagrees with you.
F1 has beautiful tracks, amazing and varied settings, very cool battles with difficult overtakes (3 cars can't just pass each other at any time like on the speedways, most overtakes requires real risk taking)......and every track is extremely different from the next. That last argument is quite crucial.
And it's just so much more multi-national......so refreshing to go from Monaco, to Belgium (the best race track in the world), and then race on the classic high speed of Monza on your way to Interlagos. Epic stuff.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 22):
one of the most exciting Indycar race I've seen in years.

Exactly.....which you have seen in Indy.
In the meantime, the Hungarian F1 Grand Prix was a real thriller a few weeks ago.
I will give you this: the Indy street races are highly exciting!! So is Laguna Seca!

But if your passion is seeing cars going round and around making the same turns over and over again on the ovals......I guess we will never really agree.



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mad99
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RE: Freak Indy Car Crash Leaves Justin Wilson In Coma

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:15 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 23):
The seat area is the last place you want 30 additional pounds. Think moment arm of the weight, corner to cross corner on weight distribution.

in formula car racing that's the location, near the cg. No idea what your referring to

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