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diverted
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Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:21 am

Well, seeing as we have a thread already for the US election, may as well create one for Canada.

I'm personally sick of Harper, though I don't know if Mulcair or Trudeau will be any better. However, neither of them needs to answer why the economy is still in a recession, the Wheat Board got spun to the Saudis, Or Joe Oliver's job creation plan of taking over a half billion from EI and giving it to businesses to "create jobs."

Sad as it is, I think May would actually be the best person for PM, though she of course has absolutely no chance.

Thoughts?
 
offloaded
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:43 pm

When the NDP won in Alberta, I realised that I had seriously lost touch with Canadian politics. I was there when Asshat Mulroney was still around. I thought Harper was hugely popular. Anyone want to summarise what happened?
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StarAC17
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:52 pm

I think it will be Mulcair and Trudeau will likely be PM as well but not in October.

Quoting diverted (Thread starter):
I'm personally sick of Harper, though I don't know if Mulcair or Trudeau will be any better. However, neither of them needs to answer why the economy is still in a recession, the Wheat Board got spun to the Saudis, Or Joe Oliver's job creation plan of taking over a half billion from EI and giving it to businesses to "create jobs."

I would like to see a minority government after the next election. It creates debate and I think works much better for the people as a whole with the exception of the fact that their could be an election every year if they don't agree on the budget.

I think a lot of Canada is sick of Harper, even those in Alberta. Also I think it would be good for the Tories if they lost and have a look in the mirror and select a new leader whom in not as controlling and ideological.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 1):
When the NDP won in Alberta, I realised that I had seriously lost touch with Canadian politics. I was there when Asshat Mulroney was still around. I thought Harper was hugely popular. Anyone want to summarise what happened?

We are like every other democracy and we get sick of our leaders over time and federally in Canada they have about a 10 year lifespan in power and we get sick of them. Furthermore Harper has really never been hugely popular, his national popularity has peaked at only about 40%.

Regarding the NDP winning in Alberta, the Tories shot themselves in the foot there (at least they were honest). When the oil bubble burst the Alberta premier decided to raise taxes and fees on the people in Alberta while leaving taxes for the corporations unchanged to manage the budget. Furthermore noting that 10-15 years ago Alberta was debt free and ran up a lot of debt under the conservatives since then, add to that being in basically uncontested power for 40 years means it was time for a change.
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golfradio
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:05 pm

I hope any one but Justin. I don't want a pot smoking, no credentials except for being his father's son, to lead the country. Though being pragmatic, I think Mulcair looks to win this election.

The last thing I want to see is my taxes going up.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:52 am

I didnt think there was really very much in it and it could have been anyones apart from May, even Harper who still does have some support.

However, I think Harper and the Tories have just gotten lucky with the financial situation in the past month and it may lead people to be more cautious and stick with the devil they know.

I have been here almost 10 years now, during that time Harper has presided over two recessions and as an outsider looking on it sure seems things are better here than many places elsewhere - the UK for example where I come from. There is never going to be a perfect PM, politician or cabinet and while there are a lot of pissed off Canadians, things could he a helluva lot worse, Canada is probably one of the better western economies out there. Of course the oil slump is changing that fast, but a change in PM or government wont change that and maybe there were some lessons learned with the loss of AB as to how they reacted to it.

The other things is voter apathy which will probably favor the Tories as the incumbent, while Canadians love to bitch and whine, they dont do anything about it at the ballot box.
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Skydrol
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:33 am

Taxes are incredibly oppressive in Canada. For most, well over 50% of income will be stolen from them in some form of tax: sales taxes, income taxes. health care taxes etc.

The idea of an NDP or Liberal government in these extremely difficult economic times poses extremely an frightening scenario for the economic future for Canada and Canadians. There is no way anyone can afford to pay higher taxes. In fact, wasteful spending needs to be cut, and taxes need to be reduced. Nothing helps initiate employment and growth better than people having more disposable income to do things and buy things.

The only party to date I can recall cutting taxes in a way to benefit all from part time minimum wage earners to millionaires are the two GST cuts from 7% to 6% and finally to 5% is the Harper government several years back. Most people have forgotten about this. But we have actually witnessed a government which cut taxes by the amount they said they would, and on the dates they said they would, without lame excuses for why it would suddenly not be possible.

One of the reasons Canada came through the 2008 recession so well compared with other countries in because of the diligence of both Paul Martin (Liberal) and Jim Flaherty (Conservative). Steven Harper being a PM with economics background and making good choices for finance ministers has helped Canada remain where it is. Folks really need to take a step back and imagine what actions an NDP government would have taken during the 2008 recession.


Sure the world economy (China) has hurt the value of stocks, oil, Canadian dollar, but this is not Steven Harper's fault, but I believe he is the best of the three to weather the storm and get Canada into a strong position for when things turn around again (and it does, always).






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offloaded
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:41 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 2):

Interesting, and thanks for the explanation. I was there in the late 80s when oil prices were low, but that's always going to be the risk when a lot of your eggs are in one basket.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 5):
One of the reasons Canada came through the 2008 recession so well compared with other countries in because of the diligence of both Paul Martin (Liberal) and Jim Flaherty (Conservative). Steven Harper being a PM with economics background and making good choices for finance ministers has helped Canada remain where it is. Folks really need to take a step back and imagine what actions an NDP government would have taken during the 2008 recession.

My last trip to Canada was about 3 years ago, and my impression at the time was "recession, what recession?" but then here in Portugal it was really really bad.
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MrChips
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 5):
The only party to date I can recall cutting taxes in a way to benefit all from part time minimum wage earners to millionaires are the two GST cuts from 7% to 6% and finally to 5% is the Harper government several years back. Most people have forgotten about this. But we have actually witnessed a government which cut taxes by the amount they said they would, and on the dates they said they would, without lame excuses for why it would suddenly not be possible.

And look at all the good that did!  

Running deficits (after campaigning against literally that thing), economy tanking due to over-reliance on energy production, the government muzzling scientists whose research contravenes their official policies, curtailing our rights as citizens in several aspects, and this is even before we get to the fact that Stephen Harper is a manipulative, petty, controlling religious zealot (seriously, go look up the First Alliance Church, of which he is a member)...the only thing the Cons have been good at is setting Canada on the path to becoming a third-world, shithole petrostate.
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WestJet747
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:16 pm

It's too early and too close to call, so I'm not going to make a prediction for at least another month.

I voted Conservative in 2011, but I'm unlikely to repeat that this time around for two reasons: 1) Harper has made some decisions that have fallen out of favour with me lately, and 2) The incumbent PC candidate for my riding is a giant....well, I'd say it but I don't want to get banned.

I'm a big fan of Mulcair. He's the type of pitbull this country could use at the helm. But I'm legitimately afraid of what the loon MPs in his party would do if they were in power.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 1):
When the NDP won in Alberta, I realised that I had seriously lost touch with Canadian politics.

That election had very little to do with the NDP. The Tories got way too comfortable and made a series of mistakes that cost them their seats. The people of Alberta voted them out as an indictment of the party's recent behaviour, and not necessarily as part of any swing to the left.

The next provincial election will see the Tories return to power. The NDP are already having their own difficulties with their newfound leadership.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 3):
I hope any one but Justin

  

Quoting MrChips (Reply 7):
religious zealot

I'm sure you're able to point to a single instance where his religious views have harmed Canadians in any way?
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photopilot
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:47 am

Here's my quandary.

1 - Harper just has to go. That's a given.

2 - Mulcair is the better of the other three Leaders. He'd make a good distinguished PM but the NDP has a weak cabinet and front bench. They have no real depth to run a national government.

3 - Trudeau is the weakest leader but the Liberals have the stronger potential caucus and front bench. I think they'd do a better overall job of governing.

So, that leaves a hope that we get a minority gov't that forces some sort of coalition between the NDP and Libs.

What will be interesting is if Harper somehow squeezes a small minority gov't out. At the first vote in the house he'll be defeated on a non-confidence vote. Then by protocol he'll have to go to the Governor General and he'll ask to dissolve Parliament and call another election. The GG however has a duty to ask either (or both) of the other Party Leaders if they feel they can obtain the confidence of the house and form a government. That's where a coalition would come into play. Without some sort of formal accord it could also be difficult for either to govern.

So, interesting times ahead.
 
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting offloaded (Reply 6):
my impression at the time was "recession, what recession?

Didnt seem to notice it too much out west, but the energy sector remained strong and a lot of the money in Vancouver is not Canadian.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 7):
the only thing the Cons have been good at is setting Canada on the path to becoming a third-world, shithole petrostate.

Have you been to one let alone lived in one?

Quoting MrChips (Reply 7):
And look at all the good that did!

Britain increased VAT to 20% and look at the good that did. Look at other western countries, you will find Canada is not alone and actually is one of the better places.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 7):
economy tanking due to over-reliance on energy production

Make hay while the sun shines as the saying goes, its a cyclical market and it will bounce back. Things are no different in Texas, Brazil or wherever else that heavily relies on oil in particular. The population is so comparatively small in Canada that it makes sense to follow the easy money and Im sure any other government would have done the same, apart from May who would willingly cycle from YYZ to YVR as she does not need oil or LNG.
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MrChips
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 8):
I'm sure you're able to point to a single instance where his religious views have harmed Canadians in any way?

Hurt Canadians in any way? Not sure I can prove that, but I can tell you that his unusually strong support of Israel does not come from political expedience; rather, it is pretty much solely because his church is of the belief that the existence of Israel is necessary to forment the thousand years of war and chaos they feel will bring about the rapture.

Read between the lines whenever he talks about this issue; it's pretty clear to anyone who pays attention that he is hiding his true feelings as he spouts off yet another boilerplate answer.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 10):
and a lot of the money in Vancouver is not Canadian

A common misconception; sure there is foreign money in Vancouver, but it's not what has driven house prices to the frankly insane levels that they've reached; that is due entirely to a combination of bad economic policy over the last 20 or so years (that has led to the whole "your house is an investment" spiel, which frankly could not be more idiotic), good publicity (Vancouver has been rated as one of the best cities to live in for many, many years), a shortage of land to build houses on (and building codes that make high-density housing difficult, if not impossible in large portions of the greater Vancouver area) and just plain old irrational actors - as I assume you live in the GVA, you can probably attest to the fact that just about the only thing people talk about in social gatherings there is getting on the real estate train, flipping houses, etc. The "foreign money is driving house prices!!!1" is a scapegoat and nothing more.

I mean, it isn't like Vancouver has much of anything else driving its economy.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 10):
Have you been to one let alone lived in one?

Yes on both counts. My immediate family has worked in the oil and gas industry for my entire life, and we traveled quite a bit growing up for work.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 10):
Make hay while the sun shines as the saying goes, its a cyclical market and it will bounce back.

I have my doubts, and there are a number of people in the energy industry that are starting to say that the hard times haven't even begun here in Canada, and that there is a good chance that things are going to get a lot worse in the coming 20-30 years. The problem is that oil from the oil sands is a high-cost, low-quality product - a resource of last resort, if you will - and as such it will be the first to slow down and the last to recover in any economic cycle. Then, there's the issue of Iran, who at one point in the past (and likely soon in the future) a dominant player in the oil industry. With their sanctions being lifted, not only does Iranian production come back online into an already flooded market, but they will gain access to all of the enhanced recovery technologies that have developed over the last 40 years, which will only further increase their production and reserves. Added to that, you need to realise that huge amounts of money have been poured into shale oil development in the northern US. The issue with this is that assuming the political obstacles can be overcome, shale oil deposits are quite literally everywhere on Earth. While the production cost is considerably higher than conventional oil, if you can produce it close to your market, you can save a ton of shipping cost (for example, the toll to send oil from Alberta to the Gulf of Mexico these days runs about $6-8/barrel, and the cost of shipping to China from the West Coast via tanker is about the same).

Even more so, you need to ask yourself, "why are we basing our economic future on resource extraction when, with our highly educated population, unfettered access to the largest economy in the world and (in spite of what lobby groups like the CFIB try and tell you) with a favourable taxation structure, why we aren't building and selling products befitting our economy in meaningful quantities, instead of just sticking a straw in the ground and hoping what comes up is valuable?"
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StarAC17
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:15 am

Quoting offloaded (Reply 6):
Interesting, and thanks for the explanation. I was there in the late 80s when oil prices were low, but that's always going to be the risk when a lot of your eggs are in one basket.

That will be debated in the next 2 months.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 9):
What will be interesting is if Harper somehow squeezes a small minority gov't out. At the first vote in the house he'll be defeated on a non-confidence vote. Then by protocol he'll have to go to the Governor General and he'll ask to dissolve Parliament and call another election. The GG however has a duty to ask either (or both) of the other Party Leaders if they feel they can obtain the confidence of the house and form a government. That's where a coalition would come into play. Without some sort of formal accord it could also be difficult for either to govern.

The last time a coalition was floated he went to the GG and prorogued parliament, he will probably try to do that again.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 10):
The population is so comparatively small in Canada that it makes sense to follow the easy money and Im sure any other government would have done the same, apart from May who would willingly cycle from YYZ to YVR as she does not need oil or LNG.

The oil and gas sector shouldn't be eliminated but there is so much potential in Canada to developed advanced technology for energy and other future needs we need to and can diversify our economy. Perhaps that means Ontario stops building cars and builds and develops tech and solar panels, wind turbines etc. You need to be competitive and the government needs to invest in it especially if business that will do everything imaginable to keep the status quo stand in the way.

The countries that are growing right now do exactly that.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
I have my doubts, and there are a number of people in the energy industry that are starting to say that the hard times haven't even begun here in Canada, and that there is a good chance that things are going to get a lot worse in the coming 20-30 years. The problem is that oil from the oil sands is a high-cost, low-quality product - a resource of last resort, if you will - and as such it will be the first to slow down and the last to recover in any economic cycle.

What Harper doesn't realize is that other countries really don't want to buy this oil. The people of the US and the EU want nothing to do with it.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
Even more so, you need to ask yourself, "why are we basing our economic future on resource extraction when, with our highly educated population, unfettered access to the largest economy in the world and (in spite of what lobby groups like the CFIB try and tell you) with a favourable taxation structure, why we aren't building and selling products befitting our economy in meaningful quantities, instead of just sticking a straw in the ground and hoping what comes up is valuable?"

  

Canada has the potential to make world class stuff and has in the past.
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WestJet747
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
Hurt Canadians in any way? Not sure I can prove that, but I can tell you that his unusually strong support of Israel does not come from political expedience; rather, it is pretty much solely because his church is of the belief that the existence of Israel is necessary to forment the thousand years of war and chaos they feel will bring about the rapture.

Read between the lines whenever he talks about this issue; it's pretty clear to anyone who pays attention that he is hiding his true feelings as he spouts off yet another boilerplate answer.

Methinks you're reading between the lines a little too much. Like numerous other policies, Harper is vehemently pro-Israel because our neighbours to the south are vehemently pro-Israel. When it comes to Canada's stance on the subject, we're puppets to the US - it has little to do with religion from the Canadian standpoint.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
that has led to the whole "your house is an investment" spiel, which frankly could not be more idiotic

"Investment" does not necessarily translate to "profit seeking". A house is, by definition, an investment.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 12):
The oil and gas sector shouldn't be eliminated but there is so much potential in Canada to developed advanced technology for energy and other future needs we need to and can diversify our economy. Perhaps that means Ontario stops building cars

         We need to stop paying companies to keep jobs here.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 9):
2 - Mulcair is the better of the other three Leaders. He'd make a good distinguished PM but the NDP has a weak cabinet and front bench. They have no real depth to run a national government.

3 - Trudeau is the weakest leader but the Liberals have the stronger potential caucus and front bench. I think they'd do a better overall job of governing.

I largely agree, but no matter how strong the bench is, I simply cannot get on board with the idea of putting a PM Trudeau at the negotiating table with world leaders on the international stage. If he can't speak to average Canadians without a gaff, what will he do at a UN address or the World Economic Forum? Even worse, at the table with despots? He'll crumble.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
why we aren't building and selling products befitting our economy in meaningful quantities,

Because it is cheaper to buy those products from Asia and import it and not enough people will pay for a higher priced product even if it is better quality.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 12):
Perhaps that means Ontario stops building cars and builds and develops tech and solar panels, wind turbines etc

Even those are now built in China and Korea. I know because I ship them. Even high output turbines and the like which were once solely the domain of the big western companies are now being built in China & Korea, even India. The fact is Canadian labor and geography costs too much to be competitive on the world stage, even transborder stage, to make high volume consumables. When you can produce the stuff at a fraction of the cost in China and increasingly Vietnam, Bangladesh etc and ship it over on 18,000 teu container vessels, then a Walmart driven US economy is never going to look at Canada. When a company like Blackberry based in ON builds their phones in China, then what could we make in meaningful quantities and export? C Series airplanes??

Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
A common misconception; sure there is foreign money in Vancouver,
Quoting MrChips (Reply 11):
I mean, it isn't like Vancouver has much of anything else driving its economy.

Not totally true, the 2nd largest film industry after Hollywood is in Vancouver, there are other natural resources other than oil such as metals and lumber and a lot of these businesses have their corporate offices in Vancouver, there is banking and finance and a lot of international trade largely due to it being a major international port and airport and therefore gateway to the continent as well as produce (particularly fruit & fish) and tourism.

By foreign money I meant it originally came from overseas, particularly Hong Kong, but has been invested in Canada. If you look at who owns a lot of the high end property, drives the high end cars and rolls the stocks and bonds in Vancouver you will find there is a high percentage of a certain demographic who now have their money here, but it didnt originate here. These people also trade with their homelands.

Anyway, I agree with your overall point, I just dont think that things are really too bad here compared to say the UK, France, Spain and the like and could be helluva lot worse. As I said, if Canadians really cared they would show it at the ballot box. Maybe the population consists of too many PR's and work permits who are illegible to vote lol
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N1120A
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:36 am

Canadians are fed up with Harper. He nearly lost last time, but for the stupid move by the Grits to force an early election, before Ignatieff had a chance to connect with the country as a whole. The real issue is whether the Liberals are willing to swallow their pride and let Mulclair run things, with their backing.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 1):
I thought Harper was hugely popular. Anyone want to summarise what happened?

At no point has Harper been hugely popular anywhere but Alberta, and the Tories have lost ground there.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 5):

Taxes are incredibly oppressive in Canada. For most, well over 50% of income will be stolen from them in some form of tax: sales taxes, income taxes. health care taxes etc.

Oh please. They are in line with the rest of the developed world, and you get a ton back for them.
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solarflyer22
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:07 am

I've always disliked Harper and his Pro-Israel/Anti-Iran Foreign Policy is just mind boggling for Canada. He turned Canada into some kind of bizarro Canada where it seemed to imitate the worst of George W Bush and the Necons even AFTER they were discredited in Iraq. He an Netanyahu generally liked each other and their is a famous photo of the two together where the mutual respect is apparent. Recall that Bill Clinton, Nikolas Sarkozy and now Hillary Clinton have all been caught either off mic or in email basically trashing Bibi as a insolent, lying prick.

John Baird was also a big bozo too.

I'm just utterly shocked that Canada had a little 10 year Merica like run. It's sad. Don't change and be the worst of the USA. Canada has its own distinct culture and it would be a shame to let people like Harper ruin it. And don't blow you're historically impartial foreign policy over 5 million Jews living in the "holy land".
 
Skydrol
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Canadians are fed up with Harper

I am a Canadian, and I will once again be voting for Harper. Like many friends, co-workers and family members, we want the country to be run like a business and not a welfare handout system.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):

Taxes are incredibly oppressive in Canada. For most, well over 50% of income will be stolen from them in some form of tax: sales taxes, income taxes. health care taxes etc.

Oh please. They are in line with the rest of the developed world, and you get a ton back for them.

Once again, no realization the USA is right next door and part of the 'developed world', and with much lower corporate tax rates is resulting in many employers moving south of the border. The Libs and NDP are simply too stupid to realize there is nothing forcing employers and business owners (aka rich people) to stay in Canada if the goal is to fleece them with high taxes to share the wealth with low income earners. This idea of equalization had been proven to be a failure, through the obsolescence of communism.

Cut government spending, cut income taxes, sales taxes, and let the free market prosper when people have more disposable income to spend how they see fit. And not steal it with taxes, throw it into general revenue, and fund programs the average working person has no use for.

I really wish we had a farther-right wing alternative in Canada to the Conservative party, but for the time being, they will have to do.




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N1120A
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
I am a Canadian, and I will once again be voting for Harper. Like many friends, co-workers and family members, we want the country to be run like a business and not a welfare handout system.

My wife is a Canadian and business owner who voted for Harper the first time and has been horrified at what he has done with the country. Like her entire family, formerly all PC voters, and all of our friends, she wants the country run by people with competence. Canada escaped the worldwide crisis in 2008 thanks to the very fiscally prudent actions of Jean Chretien - not the idiocy of Stephen Harper.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
Once again, no realization the USA is right next door and part of the 'developed world', and with much lower corporate tax rates is resulting in many employers moving south of the border.

1) The US has higher corporate tax rates than Canada.

2) Canada has attracted significantly higher quality labor, due to much wiser immigration policies.

3) Businesses moving south? Like Burger King, which saw it's parent move to Oakville after the Tim Hortons merger? Or is what happens in the populated parts of the country irrelevant to folks in the Prairies?

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
I really wish we had a farther-right wing alternative in Canada to the Conservative party, but for the time being, they will have to do.

The vast majority of Canadians disagree with you. Even in Alberta.
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MrChips
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RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:19 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
Like many friends, co-workers and family members, we want the country to be run like a business and not a welfare handout system.

What, so the rich get even richer and, well, [email protected]*k the poor? Because that's how revolutions start. Look how well that worked for imperial Russia. Tell me something, how much income inequality do you think exists in Canada? Give me a number; how much of the total wealth does the bottom quartile control? The top quartile? The top 1%?

Beyond that, running a country like a business is a surefire way of running the whole thing into the ground, and doing it a hell of a lot faster than the other way.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
The Libs and NDP are simply too stupid to realize there is nothing forcing employers and business owners (aka rich people) to stay in Canada if the goal is to fleece them with high taxes to share the wealth with low income earners.

Nah.

If some business has a fit and closes up shop here in Canada because of our supposedly onerous taxation (which has never really happened and is decidedly not the case), there is always another that is more than willing to take their place in the market. That's the glorious nature of capitalism!

That sword cuts just as sharp both ways.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
Cut government spending, cut income taxes, sales taxes, and let the free market prosper when people have more disposable income to spend how they see fit. And not steal it with taxes, throw it into general revenue, and fund programs the average working person has no use for.

Your kind forgets (no, that's not right...doesn't understand) economies of scale. A government can do things on such a large scale that they can make the unit cost so low that there is no way that an individual could ever be able to match it...that's what I call good business sense. Second, tax cuts have been proven time and again, even by right-leaning think tanks, as being one of the most ineffective means of stimulating economic growth. The best way to stimulate economic growth? Helping the bottom quartile of the economy and education. Not by lining the pockets of the greedy assholes who can't see past their own narrow-minded ideologies who will just piss it away by spending it on frivolous products made elsewhere.

And taxation is NOT stealing. It is the price you pay for living in such a safe, prosperous and stable country, one taken for granted by too many people. There is literally nothing in your daily life in this country, whether or not your too stupid to realise it, that doesn't owe its quality to the government in one way or another. If you don't like it, go live in Somalia...I hear it's a regular libertarian paradise these days. And don't let the door hit you on the way out when you leave...wouldn't want my tax dollars wasted on fixing that.

[Edited 2015-09-03 04:21:50]
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SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
we want the country to be run like a business

Sorry to tell you that a country is not a business and can't be, except perhaps with a despot at its head.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 19):
What, so the rich get even richer and, well, [email protected]*k the poor? Because that's how revolutions start. Look how well that worked for imperial Russia.

Good exemple.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
My wife is a Canadian and business owner who voted for Harper the first time and has been horrified at what he has done with the country. Like her entire family, formerly all PC voters, and all of our friends, she wants the country run by people with competence.

I haven't read the book but found the interview interesting.

http://youtu.be/A8Bu4k_Oja4
 
User avatar
Classa64
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:40 pm

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:22 pm

It angers me to even think about whats going on in Canadian politics, face it, there all crooks and when voted in will change to what there personal agenda is and not what they said to get the votes. You want my vote? give me back my tax dollars from the waste not building the Gas plants in Ontario, Eliminate the money grabbing scam on my electricity bill; Debt Retirement Charge, hey I have a credit card wanna pay that off to because I suck at managing my money. Giving tax breaks to windmill companies that put up these eyesores that don't produce electricity.... The list is endless and do I care who wins? No, should I? ...yes. Its seriously time to show these idiots that we need and want a competent government, problem is all in the running don't warrant my vote.

To have the right to complain about the government I think you need to have voted, which I did last time and whitch I will again, weather it be flipping a coin or spoiling my vote I guess I will wait and see. At this point and after reading all the posts i am more confused than ever now.

Sorry for the rant.

C.
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:31 pm

My    is going to Thomas Mulcair's NDP...minority government supported by Justin Trudeau's Liberals.

Really he's the only capable leader to clean up Harper's mess....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:55 pm

The death of two Syrian boys trying to get to Canada could very well be the turning point in this election...

Reportedly they were rejected by Immigration Canada thought the Canada immigration minster claims refugee documents were never received...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...alexander-refugee-crisis-1.3213869

[Edited 2015-09-04 05:58:00]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 22):
My is going to Thomas Mulcair's NDP...minority government supported by Justin Trudeau's Liberals.

that would probably be an interesting team to govern Canada and change the course of this country. Harper should be sent to the dungeon.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26607
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 24):
that would probably be an interesting team to govern Canada and change the course of this country. Harper should be sent to the dungeon.

I think it is the viable one at this point.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:16 pm

For once I like to see Harper put his hard hat on and actually earn his pay; not riding on our hard-earned tax dough.....

http://i.cbc.ca/1.1966753.1381466916..._620/li-harper-cp-00210441-620.jpg
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
diverted
Topic Author
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 26):
For once I like to see Harper put his hard hat on and actually earn his pay; not riding on our hard-earned tax dough.....

Well, I'm sure our tax dollars paid for that hat. Which he was probably wearing to film an economic action plan ad....
Or maybe he was filming another Halifax shipyard video in Burlington.  
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 23):
The death of two Syrian boys trying to get to Canada could very well be the turning point in this election...

Reportedly they were rejected by Immigration Canada thought the Canada immigration minster claims refugee documents were never received...

Except for the fact the next day the boy's aunt admitted every aspect of the story was untrue / fabricated. They had never applied at all. Another relative had applied, and was rejected due to incomplete information. Wow, there are actually people screening these refugee / immigration applications!

And true, this very well has become a turning point. We had two impulsive, irresponsible, immature clowns jump on a political grandstanding soapbox attacking Immigration Canada and the current government for being responsible for the deaths of these two children when the family had never even applied to come to Canada! These two buffoons couldn't even wait a day to verify story accuracy before making utter fools of themselves. Yeah, just what Canada needs during times of global conflicts and economic uncertainty: impulsive, unprofessional clowns as heads of state! When JT and Tommy open their mouths, they are Canada's equivalent to Sarah Palin.





LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:04 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 28):
When JT and Tommy open their mouths, they are Canada's equivalent to Sarah Palin.

I'll wait and see what happens on Oct 19 before making a judgement on that one....

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 17):
I really wish we had a farther-right wing alternative in Canada to the Conservative party, but for the time being, they will have to do.

We did...it was the Canadian Alliance...

[Edited 2015-09-07 14:50:26]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: Who Will Become Next Canadian Prime Minister

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 28):
Except for the fact the next day the boy's aunt admitted every aspect of the story was untrue / fabricated. They had never applied at all. Another relative had applied, and was rejected due to incomplete information. Wow, there are actually people screening these refugee / immigration applications!

And yet the PMO turned around and offered the father citizenship the day after - at which point the father told the Canadian government to go sit on a rake. Explain a) how and why the PMO is legally or ethically justified in doing so and b) how that isn't politicising the unfortunate events for their own interests.

There isn't a deep or dark enough hole to throw Stephen Harper and his band of thuggish criminals into.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 28):
These two buffoons couldn't even wait a day to verify story accuracy before making utter fools of themselves.

Sounds just like Harper, actually, except that he is actually in a position to do some real damage. The man not only never checks his facts whenever he opens the other side of his mouth, he actively makes things up too! I mean, why else would he have got rid of the long-form census...putting us in the esteemed company of countries like those in sub-Saharan Africa when it comes to collecting the information we need to run this country effectively. Or why he's muzzled government scientists and cut their departments' funding to the point they can't operate correctly. It is very clear to anyone with even a modicum of intelligence that Stephen Harper, who has been doing a bang-up job channeling his inner Kim-Jong Un, is totally and completely afraid of reality and what it means to his conservative fantasyland.

[Edited 2015-09-07 14:10:21]
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