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andrej
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WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:01 pm

I just came across this horrible news. A reporter Alison Parker, 24 and cameraman Adam Ward, 27 working for WDBJ7, a local affiliate of NBC News were killed while live on air.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...lled-moneta-live-broadcast-n416221

RIP to both of them. This just sick.  

[Edited 2015-08-26 07:10:11]
 
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:14 pm

'Murica baby! It's freakin nuts out there man. Americans are so conditioned to it, we grow up reacting with things like 'what a tragedy, they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.' Unfortunately, it's far more tragic than that.

Most other places, this would only happen in an active combat area or ongoing insurgency/revolution.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:14 pm

If only they had a gun...*

YouTube has video clips of the shooting. Like any shooting, they were caught by surprise and you can't tell anything about the person who shot them. The shooter shot the cameraman first (and maybe killed him on the spot), it seems, since the camera angles and falls before the reporter is shot.

Terrible news indeed. I can't imagine how it must have been like for the station crew to see it happening live.


*Note that while this is bait and it's suitable for another thread, it's still very much ingrained in Americans, especially those who support 2nd amendment rights. This is their excuse to these shootings: they would not happen if people just had guns to deter or defend themselves. We need to wake up from that mentality. Having a gun won't deter anyone from pulling the trigger. While I'm all for bearing arms, we need to make sure that only people with a clean record bear them; people we know will be responsible; people who do not brag about open carry or how many guns they have, but keep them safe for self defense. The ease for anyone to get a gun is sometimes puzzling. And the worst of it is that government inaction is cited as the reason these shootings keep happening.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
D L X
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Many people will wait until they know the race or religious background of the attacker before they comment.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
people who do not brag about open carry or how many guns they have,

Well that will disqualify most gun fans.
 
andrej
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
If only they had a gun...*

There is a saying that only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. I am not against guns, but I believe that its ownership must be regulated. Too many psychos can easily obtain a weapon and they do real harm. People that own legal weapons and have a vested interested in them, usually do not carry our shootings.

This issue must be addressed and not be forgotten like is standard in the U.S. But given how unreasonable politicians are, this will not be sound/long lasting solution.

I start to believe that carrying loaded gun will be mandatory, just to protect myself while in the U.S.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 1):

Most other places, this would only happen in an active combat area or ongoing insurgency/revolution.

Come to think about it, and you are pretty much spot on.  
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 4):
There is a saying that only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. I am not against guns, but I believe that its ownership must be regulated. Too many psychos can easily obtain a weapon and they do real harm. People that own legal weapons and have a vested interested in them, usually do not carry our shootings.

It is already regulated, but once again, the anti's totally ignore that fact. But hey, keep making up your own facts to fit your gun hating desires, no problem.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
andrej
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):
It is already regulated, but once again, the anti's totally ignore that fact. But hey, keep making up your own facts to fit your gun hating desires, no problem.

And is it unified throughout the entire U.S.? How easily can you obtain the guns? State's statures do differ.

Try to obtain a gun in Europe, and you will see what is a real bureaucracy.

Can you read my post once again? I said that I am NOT against the gun ownership (on contrary), but I am in favor of more prudent regulation.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
YouTube has video clips of the shooting.

It's removed, but it can be found here:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=518_1440595069

Quite scary. Why would anyone do something like that?
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 6):
And is it unified throughout the entire U.S.? How easily can you obtain the guns? State's statures do differ.

Federal law dictates the regulation towards firearm ownership. Only more restrictive "laws" can be put in place by the states.

-DiamondFlyer
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agill
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 6):

Try to obtain a gun in Europe, and you will see what is a real bureaucracy.

Well unless you get it illegally.
 
photopilot
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:52 pm

Ho hum.... another day, another A.net thread on another shooting.

More people dead.....

More cries of ban the guns.....

More cries of "if only they had a gun to defend themselves".......

   Nothing more to really say except......

Next........
 
Okie
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:58 pm

They are reporting at this time that the shooter was identified as a disgruntled former TV station employee.

Okie
 
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scbriml
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:05 pm

Plus ca change.   
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bgm
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 11):
They are reporting at this time that the shooter was identified as a disgruntled former TV station employee.

... and if (s)he's:

- white, (s)he's a mentally ill person
- black, (s)he's a thug
- muslim, then (s)he's obviously a terrorist

Americans go nuts over Ebola, yet how many die due to gun crime? As another member posted, another week, another shooting...sigh.
 
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Aesma
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 4):
There is a saying that only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun

Like on the Thalys the other day ? No, the good guys didn't have a gun, nor a knife for that matter.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
flyingcat
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:21 pm

Wow the shooter has serious issues, he is a former reporter at the station and in his own sick twisted mind posted his own personal first person video of him shooting the innocent people, all on his own Twitter feed!!
 
coolian2
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:31 pm

Cue the NRA not knowing when to just not say a word. Imbeciles
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einsteinboricua
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 13):
As another member posted, another week, another shooting...sigh.

It's interesting actually. Back in PR, this is the mentality we have. Every morning we wake up to news that at least someone was shot overnight. Whether it was due to drugs, a fight that got out of hand, an accident, that's all irrelevant. The fact is we've grown indifferent to it and accepted it as part of our way of live. That is not the case in the US though...maybe it's because I don't have TV in my apartment but unless a shooting reaches big headline (Ferguson, Aurora) I wouldn't even know that a shooting happened. Now, whether it's sensational (to generate ratings), that's a different story. I wouldn't be surprised if in St. Louis shootings happened every night but only those that end up inciting riots and chaos make the headlines; otherwise, it's not until the next afternoon while at the gym that I find out about it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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pvjin
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:35 pm

Apparently the shooter filmed the shooting and uploaded a video from his viewpoint to his Facebook account, saw it a link on some wannabe detective forum... What a crazy world.

Seems like the offender and the victims were familiar with each other, from work I guess.

Here's the video from shooter's viewpoint, very disturbing:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=225_1440602498



[Edited 2015-08-26 08:44:31]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Acheron
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):
It is already regulated, but once again, the anti's totally ignore that fact. But hey, keep making up your own facts to fit your gun hating desires, no problem.

Your "regulations" are a complete joke, for starters. Made worse by the fact of your non-existant psychological screening and shitty mental healthcare overall.
 
Ken777
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:08 pm

Sadly this is now a normal part of American life. Guns have saturated the country and they are selling more and more every year. Someone can't buy one in the gun store that follows the law? Just head to your local gun show and you'll be good.

In terms of changes to the law, you need to remember that money talks far more than dead bodies in the gun industry. There is more than enough cash going through the NRA to protect the gunmakers and their profits.

So it is just another day in America. You need to live with it if you want to live in this country.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
So it is just another day in America. You need to live with it if you want to live in this country.

Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

-DiamondFlyer
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11Bravo
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):
The fact is we've grown indifferent to it and accepted it as part of our way of live. That is not the case in the US though..

Due respect,... the mainland US is exactly that way too. We do not care. Someone kills a bunch of six year olds in a school; we do not care. Thousands are killed each year with guns; we do not care. We love guns. We love killing. The NRA rocks. One of these days the rest of the developed world will discover how fun this is, and they too will allow guns everywhere. It's awesome.
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Braybuddy
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:32 pm

Reports now saying the shooter has shot himself. No loss.
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

That's more of a line for immigrants than people who are from and live in the country. I don't see anything wrong with criticising this gun culture.

Gun regulation is clearly not working, it is happening on far too regular a basis that someone gets hold of a gun and uses it. It shouldn't be happening at all.
 
bgm
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

Perhaps if you took your own advice, the US may progress to a be a more civilized country without these weekly mass shootings.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!   
 
11Bravo
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 25):
Perhaps if you took your own advice, the US may progress to a be a more civilized country without these weekly mass shootings.

  
WhaleJets Rule!
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:57 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 25):
Perhaps if you took your own advice, the US may progress to a be a more civilized country without these weekly mass shootings.

Because I'm sure you have nothing better to do in the solomon islands than play US politics...

Quoting Acheron (Reply 19):
Your "regulations" are a complete joke, for starters. Made worse by the fact of your non-existant psychological screening and shitty mental healthcare overal

I would agree with the last half of that statement. There is no mental healthcare system here, which is a cause of lots of problems, not just firearms related ones.

But hey, if you want to ban guns because .0001% of people do bad things with them, I have a hard time believing any proposal you put out. Never mind the well more than 99% of the population that doesn't use then nefariously, follow the laws and use them properly.

-DiamondFlyer
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Tugger
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
Sadly this is now a normal part of American life. Guns have saturated the country and they are selling more and more every year. Someone can't buy one in the gun store that follows the law? Just head to your local gun show and you'll be good.

In terms of changes to the law, you need to remember that money talks far more than dead bodies in the gun industry. There is more than enough cash going through the NRA to protect the gunmakers and their profits.

This is the price of fear and that is what the NRA deals in. If there were fewer guns there would be fewer deaths (and no it would not be "only the criminals will have the guns) and less fear and then less desire to have more guns to protect ones self. But the industry and the NRA is part of that does not want this of course. Fear sells.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

Or we can enact laws and change attitudes for what is acceptable and have people meet those requirements. And if some people do not like it they can leave as the door will be open.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 22):
Due respect,... the mainland US is exactly that way too. We do not care. Someone kills a bunch of six year olds in a school; we do not care. Thousands are killed each year with guns; we do not care. We love guns. We love killing. The NRA rocks. One of these days the rest of the developed world will discover how fun this is, and they too will allow guns everywhere. It's awesome.

  

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 24):
That's more of a line for immigrants than people who are from and live in the country. I don't see anything wrong with criticising this gun culture.

Gun regulation is clearly not working, it is happening on far too regular a basis that someone gets hold of a gun and uses it. It shouldn't be happening at all.

The biggest problem is with gun owners not respecting guns and their ownership of such and those people not putting any real effort into addressing the problems. You have people (some who post here) espouse the virtues of guns and the importance of the Constitution, but they will not take ownership of the problem or the people that are the problems. The NRA is a big part of this due to their organizing power and outsized influence in politics. And when anyone does try to take ownership of the problem the NRA and others "squeal like a stuck pig" that the people trying to address the problem are gun haters, or anti-Constitution, against freedom etc. And they provide no solution themselves. None beyond something equivalent too "Go buy your own gun and then we'll talk".

So sadly it is the gun owners lack of ability or will to do anything that is the problem. They will instead point to everyone else as the problem. And they don't realize how infantile and obvious that is. They like politics and to hide behinds the politics of it.

Ultimately it is these people, the NRA, the gun owners, that need to take away guns from people that should not have or own guns. They do it already themselves, I have seen it on the small scale in families. The ones that own and use guns will not allow members of their family that they do not trust or consider "safe with guns" to have or own a gun in their household. I have seen them take away the guns from a family member. This needs to be done on a larger scale but they are simply afraid to do it. The NRA could lead such a campaign but they won't do it because it is not going to increase sales of the industry and that is all the seem to really care about.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
But hey, if you want to ban guns because .0001% of people do bad things with them, I have a hard time believing any proposal you put out. Never mind the well more than 99% of the population that doesn't use then nefariously, follow the laws and use them properly.

You keep bringing up things like "banning them" and waving such straw arguments around. Again hiding behind the politics of it and trying to inflame the situation.

Tugg

[Edited 2015-08-26 10:02:52]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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scbriml
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 23):
Reports now saying the shooter has shot himself. No loss.

It seems he wasn't such a good shot and is still alive.
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Ken777
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like

Of course it is and I have lived overseas as well as in the US. So, yes, I have seen environments that are safer, just as I have seen violence in the US. Ours is a unique situation because of the Second Amendment and acts like today's shootings of the TV employees do make the news around the world, from London to Sydney/.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

It doesn't upset me that much - I'm simply pointing out the sad reality of life in America when we see these types of shootings (and worse) on a continual basis. I guess we could say that it is tie Shooting of the Week, but the frequency is greater than that.

So I'm a bit numb to the situation. I understand that it is not going to get better and I understand that the gun industry is only going to grow in both sales and profitability.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
Never mind the well more than 99% of the population that doesn't use then nefariously, follow the laws and use them properly.

I don't have a problem with honest people having guns. I don't' want one in my home because I still remember a kid in our 5th grade class who lost his older brother to a gun that wasn't loaded.

That brings up another problem, accidental shooting that can impact families for the rest of their lives.

And let's not forget the number of guns that are lost to criminals through home robberies.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 28):
Or we can enact laws and change attitudes for what is acceptable and have people meet those requirements.

I doubt if the US will ever pass any meaningful law on guns. The gun lobby is simply too rich these days and can make or destroy politicians with 'campaign contributions".
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
still remember a kid in our 5th grade class who lost his older brother to a gun that wasn't loaded.

Sorry, but i didn't understand how.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 22):
Due respect,... the mainland US is exactly that way too. We do not care. Someone kills a bunch of six year olds in a school; we do not care. Thousands are killed each year with guns; we do not care.

That may be true, but news media sensationalize it and turn it into a national topic. Have you ever heard of Puerto Rican massacres (which happen on a yearly basis)? Of course you don't: the media there just reports it and moves on.

What made Ferguson or George Zimmerman's cases so big that everyone knew some degree about them even though they couldn't care less?

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
But hey, if you want to ban guns because .0001% of people do bad things with them, I have a hard time believing any proposal you put out.

Well, no one here has called to ban guns, but then again, if conservatives justify voter ID laws because they think it prevents voter fraud, despite the true numbers being miniscule like that (Wisconsin, for instance, reported 7 cases of fraud in the 2004 election...out of 3m votes cast...equivalent to .0002%), then I don't see why they'd oppose stricter regulations to ensure only people who can be trusted are allowed to purchase guns.
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Tugger
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
I doubt if the US will ever pass any meaningful law on guns. The gun lobby is simply too rich these days and can make or destroy politicians with 'campaign contributions".

I am confident that in time it will change. We just have to get past the hyper-politics that are in play right now.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
still remember a kid in our 5th grade class who lost his older brother to a gun that wasn't loaded.

Sorry, but i didn't understand how.

Usually it is because the gun was THOUGHT to have been not loaded and therefore "safe to handle" or be "safely stored".

There many instances of this sadly. No gun is "safe" until absolutely confirmed by you/in front of you that it is not loaded. (This is why the open carry zealots are so dumb, they forget the cardinal rule of any responsible gun owner: "always assume a gun is loaded until you verify otherwise".    ).

Tugg

[Edited 2015-08-26 11:19:10]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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scbriml
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 29):
It seems he wasn't such a good shot and is still alive.

Correction, now confirmed that he has in fact died from self-inflicted gunshot.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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ltbewr
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:37 pm

First of all, RIP the reporter, the cameraman who died and sympathies to the person who was interviewed who was critically injured and to the families of the victims. Too bad the shooter didn't take his own life instead of doing this, apparently he tried to kill himself when caught by police and failed, only injuring himself. Too bad police didn't kill this guy who was armed rather than some unarmed person. The shooter was a former news reader on the station so had a grudge for some reason. Sadly too, race may play up here as the shooter was Black and the victims White. Of course the pro and anti-gun forces are screaming at each other.

As I have said before, and in this case ever more so occurring during a location live TV situation, it is the publicity for the shooters/attackers/terrorists and the problem/cause/voices in their head that is a major motivation to do such acts. Add our failures to deal with mental illness, access to guns in the USA and it means this stuff happens too often Clearly this got worldwide publicity, probably non-stop on CNN and the cable news. I don't know how we can remove the media and publicity motivation short of government censorship which is not going to happen, many places removed the video recording of the attack shortly after it happened, but sadly for the TV and news media, 'if it bleeds, it leads' so to get ratings, so they just feed the attackers mentality.
 
frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:55 pm

And this is exactly why I am always watching and looking everywhere around me when I visit that country. I loved visiting the cities but my experience was ruined by the fear of a shooting.

When are they going to learn that allowing the public to have guns is WRONG?!
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frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):

It's obviously not regulated. I live in the UK, guns are regulated here, I hardly ever hear of a shooting.

In America a crazy shooting seems to happen every few weeks now.
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Revelation
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
it's still very much ingrained in Americans, especially those who support 2nd amendment rights

You really need to qualify "Americans". It's not like every American loves guns.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 1):
Most other places, this would only happen in an active combat area or ongoing insurgency/revolution.

Sadly there's no putting the toothpaste back into the tube short of a major consensus extensive enough to amend the Constitution.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
people who do not brag about open carry or how many guns they have, but keep them safe for self defense

How exactly can the law determine who's not going to brag and who's only going to use their weapons for self defense?

Quoting bgm (Reply 13):
Americans

Sigh...
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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A332DTW
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:02 pm

I got sick to my stomach seeing those videos. My hands are shaking. You hear about it so often, this person got shot that person got shot, but seeing it like this is overwhelming for some reason. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of saying "my condolences" and I'm tired of feeling shocked by gun deaths in this country. I'm just tired of it. All you gun worshipers can bask in the limelight, because as far as I see it you have won. People in this country NEED guns now, and eyes in the back of their heads just to go work.
 
frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:04 pm

Americans never except their failures.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
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OA412
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Many people will wait until they know the race or religious background of the attacker before they comment.

  

Quoting bgm (Reply 13):
Americans go nuts over Ebola, yet how many die due to gun crime? As another member posted, another week, another shooting...sigh.

We've become way too desensitized to it all. It's quite frightening how accepting our society has become of this sort of senseless violence. We don't even bat an eye anymore.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

I hate this response. It's absolutely lazy. Complaining about your country doesn't mean you want to leave it, it means you want to make changes for the greater good. You can disagree with someone's desire to effect change, but blowing them off and telling them to leave is counterproductive. People who want to see change don't hate their country. Would you honestly enjoy it if someone told to you "the door is open" because of your pro-gun stance?

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 24):
That's more of a line for immigrants than people who are from and live in the country. I don't see anything wrong with criticising this gun culture.

Nah that one is used against non-immigrants all the time. A lot of people in this country can't see past the "this is the greatest country in the world" rhetoric and would rather tell someone to leave than to have a frank discussion about some of our country's shortcomings. I can't tell you how many times I was called unpatriotic, un-American, etc. during the lead up to the Iraq war...
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
AI121
Posts: 65
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:10 pm

The shooter worked for the news channel and was a disgruntled employee. He also took a video of him shooting them and posted it on Facebook. Here's his twitter feed screenshot before it was taken down.

Here's the Video he posted on Facebook.

WARNING! Disturbing Content
dhRuv
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):

Well this is what I was trying to say by "Americans never accept their failures", they think they are infallible and perfect of making mistakes/having issues.

Clearly very wrong.

During my visit a few weeks ago I lost count the number of times I heard "this is America!" as it America is a completely different country to the rest of the world and has no problems. It actually infuriates me how ignorant these people are, clearly they never leave their own town.

[Edited 2015-08-26 12:18:14]

[Edited 2015-08-26 12:22:59]
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Tugger
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 37):
And this is exactly why I am always watching and looking everywhere around me when I visit that country. I loved visiting the cities but my experience was ruined by the fear of a shooting.

When are they going to learn that allowing the public to have guns is WRONG?!

I live here and do not live in fear or guns or gun violence, however I do agree that we need to better address the problems we have on this. With that said, either you are being irrational being "in fear" when visiting the USA but then much fear is irrational.

And regarding the public and guns, of course the public can be allowed to own guns. There just needs to be proper rules and requirements for owning and using them. Many, many hunting families know the proper way to manage this but they oddly refuse to put what they know into practice.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 39):
You really need to qualify "Americans". It's not like every American loves guns.

  

Quoting Revelation (Reply 39):
Sadly there's no putting the toothpaste back into the tube short of a major consensus extensive enough to amend the Constitution.

  

Quoting frostyj (Reply 41):
Americans never except their failures.

Other than your failure with the English language  Wink .... many people don't but I mostly disagree with you overall. American's do accept their failures as much as anyone. And we are quite vocal about it and discuss them endlessly, beating the dead horse over and over again. And sometime we even make changes because of our failures

Tugg

[Edited 2015-08-26 12:18:47]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:20 pm

See this is what I mean. You attack me, a typical American response, you can't cope with criticism of your country

Not my problem! I'm proud of my heritage but don't flaunt it and I know that my country is not perfect/infallible. No country is perfect.

If someone has anything negative to say about my country, I will often agree with them because I can accept that we have issues..

[Edited 2015-08-26 12:21:21]
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 44):
Well this is what I was trying to say by "Americans never accept their failures", they think they are infallible and perfect of making mistakes/having issues.

Where the heck are you coming up with this stuff?

Well I can't stop you, and it certainly does not help your argument, but I can honestly say that you are wrong.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 46):
See this is what I mean. You attack me, a typical American response, you can't cope with criticism of your country

Not my problem! I'm proud of my heritage but don't flaunt it and I know that my country is not perfect/infallible. No country is perfect.

If someone has anything negative to say about my country, I will often agree with them because I can accept that we have issues..

Wow...   

You notice that I am having a conversation with you and not "attacking" you. I am stating my opinion and point of view. Nor am I saying the USA is perfect etc. You are really overreacting.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:25 pm

Clearly experience. I'm just back from DC and witnessed alot of this attitude of acting like America is infallible.

Although to be fair not every state i've visited has been like that.
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 49):
Clearly experience. I'm just back from DC and witnessed alot of this attitude of acting like America is infallible.

Well come on! It's DC! That place is practically perfect in every way!  

As you say, you actually have experienced the variety of other attitudes in the different place you have visited. To lump the entire USA and the people that live here into one bucket of "in DC" is unfair. I might say even bordering on silly. We are quite proud our nation for a variety of reasons, but I will throw in that I am also quite proud of my Scottish and Dutch heritage, just as much as I am "proud" of my country.

Tugg

[Edited 2015-08-26 12:31:08]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey

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