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casinterest
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:33 pm

Well, The NRA has their proof that this guy was mentally ill. Sad day.


http://news.yahoo.com/cbs-journalist...lled-live-broadcast-130723506.html

"ABC News said that it received a 23-page fax on Wednesday morning from someone claiming to be Williams.

In it, Williams writes that he was motivated, in part, to avenge the deaths of nine black churchgoers in Charleston in June.

“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15," he wrote. “What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them." It's unclear which initials he is referring to. The news division said it turned the document over to the authorities.

“The church shooting was the tipping point ... but my anger has been building steadily," he continued. "I’ve been a human powder keg for a while ... just waiting to go BOOM!!!!”
"

Quoting frostyj (Reply 41):
Americans never except their failures

How about you accept your failures and move on to recognize that there are exceptions to the rule.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 pm

I'm not even going to read all the posts because I know it's just anti-gun vs. pro-gun arguments. Oddly enough, I was talking about shootings in the U.S. with my floormates who are from China and France. Everyday there is a shooting in the U.S., but typically it's something small like a gang fight or an argument that leaves at most 2 people dead. Mass shootings in the U.S. aren't frequent, but I think we have begun to get used to it, as sad as that is. I suppose this isn't a mass shooting, but it's enough to scare people.

To the people who think we don't need gun regulations or our gun regulations are just fine, I am honestly sick of you. I am sick of the NRA. I am sick of people who think the government is trying to take away their guns. I am sick of these shootings. And to the poster who said the door is always open, that is just fine by me. I am perfectly content with being in Norway instead of the U.S. If these shootings get more frequent then maybe I'll stay out.

And just for clarification, even though the ignorant will still twist my words, you should be allowed a pistol for defense. If you hunt then of course you can have a hunting rifle. But anything bigger is not needed for defense or hunting. Strict mental health checks and gun control are needed. I never want to own a gun, not due to mental issues, but the fact that so much harm can be done with just one shot.
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 46):
See this is what I mean. You attack me, a typical American response, you can't cope with criticism of your country

LOL, you issue a (grammatically incorrect) attack on "Americans" (what, you know all 319 million of them?) and the second someone pushes back you say it's you that's being attacked?
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hh65man
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:14 pm

How utterly horrific, I am just speechless. I would be in favour of our government changing the travel advisory to the USA as " Reconsider your need to travel"......
 
AR385
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 44):
During my visit a few weeks ago I lost count the number of times I heard "this is America!" as it America is a completely different country to the rest of the world and has no problems. It actually infuriates me how ignorant these people are, clearly they never leave their own town.
Quoting frostyj (Reply 44):
Well this is what I was trying to say by "Americans never accept their failures", they think they are infallible and perfect of making mistakes/having issues.
Quoting frostyj (Reply 49):
Clearly experience. I'm just back from DC and witnessed alot of this attitude of acting like America is infallible.

It would be respectful of you, and classy, if you really stopped writing this stereotypical crap and actually participate with some valid contribution. Grouping an entire country into sweeping, negative statements, dumb, false statements too, by someone who has never lived in the US and only been here on vacation is rude and immature. You know nothing about what you are saying. At least do a bit of research so you can write something relevant, not cheap shops with nothing other than insults to an entire population.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 47):
Where the heck are you coming up with this stuff?

If you see his responses on many threads, you will see that this is the usual style he chooses to use to participate. He has already been banned in other forums by doing the exact same thing. Just another active troll. Useless to engage him too.
 
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:27 pm

When you call me a troll you lose my respect.
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 51):
Well, The NRA has their proof that this guy was mentally ill. Sad day.

Well that's the problem with labeling it as a "mental illness" problem and not what it truly is. Anyone who goes out and kills another person, especially in cold blood, can be classified as "mentally ill" but that diagnosis will only occur AFTER the person kills someone.

There needs to be a better process in place PRIOR to the ownership of the gun. But "mental illness" often will not be identifiable. So you can't just focus on that.

New is now talking about "anger issues" with the shooter, quite frankly that would be at least equal to "mental issues" for deciding if someone should be allowed to own/use a gun.

Tugg
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910A
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):

If only they had a gun...*

and the result would have been the same..What gun nuts refused to accept that big majority of armed people (including police), will fail at the time of an emergency like this. The percent of first rounds hitting it's target is incredibly low.
 
luv2fly
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:13 pm

Yet the NRA will come out and say that more guns are the solution and never address the actual problem.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
D L X
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 56):

When you call me a troll you lose my respect.


When he dropped a large mass of truth on your behavior, he gained mine.

Seriously. Pipe down with your generalizations. The UK has plenty of problems itself.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 57):

Well that's the problem with labeling it as a "mental illness" problem and not what it truly is. Anyone who goes out and kills another person, especially in cold blood, can be classified as "mentally ill" but that diagnosis will only occur AFTER the person kills someone.

There needs to be a better process in place PRIOR to the ownership of the gun. But "mental illness" often will not be identifiable. So you can't just focus on that.


agreed. Guns should be subject to getting licensed to operate, just like cars. An operator should be subjected to competency testing to ensure safe operation. Just like with cars. For something tremendously more dangerous than cars, it should not be easier to get a gun than to get a car.
 
910A
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 60):
agreed. Guns should be subject to getting licensed to operate, just like cars. An operator should be subjected to competency testing to ensure safe operation. Just like with cars. For something tremendously more dangerous than cars, it should not be easier to get a gun than to get a car.

add: It shouldn't be easier to get a gun than to vote.
It shouldn't be easier to get a gun than to buy sudafed.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
Last I checked, the door was still open, you can leave for whatever reason you like. If it upsets you that much, the door is open.

Come on, what kind of response is this? We are Americans, we have a process in which we can voice our opinions and change the current system. Surely there are some things about the government you'd like changed, do you push for change or do you just stay quiet and/or plan to leave the country?

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
I would agree with the last half of that statement. There is no mental healthcare system here, which is a cause of lots of problems, not just firearms related ones.

What is your proposed fix? I hear mental health blamed a lot (for good reason, it's a huge factor in a lot of these shootings) but I never hear what goes beyond that. Mandatory psych evals before you own a gun? Periodic psych evals for gun owners? People put on a black-list if a family member or friend thinks you might use the gun illegally based off you said (including a simple joke taken out of context)?

And assuming we somehow identified every person with mental issues, do you think it still won't be easy for them to get guns?

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
But hey, if you want to ban guns because .0001% of people do bad things with them, I have a hard time believing any proposal you put out. Never mind the well more than 99% of the population that doesn't use then nefariously, follow the laws and use them properly.

.0001% or whatever percentage we have is still a lot. Look at our gun violence and laws, then look at other countries. Come on, I used to dance around the issue as well, but we do indeed have a problem. I will agree with you that mental health and gang activity constitute a significant portion (majority?) of these deaths, but there is still way too much violence outside of these categories. When you have so much resistance to the most basic, non-intrusive gun regulations, you lose this gun owner.

I own a lot of guns, the "scary" ones too, but I am ashamed at the lack of response from fellow gun owners. We're gonna eventually lose the fight and it will go way beyond the reasonable compromises we can make now. When that happens, we can blame liberals all we want, but in reality, it's going to be us gun-owners' fault collectively.
 
DDR
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:47 pm

Frostyj, you can't lump over 300 million people together and expect to be taken seriously. You also can't judge the U.S. Based on a visit to D.C. Which happens to have an above average crime rate. Not all Russians were communists, not all Germans were Nazis and all Americans are not gun toting murderers.

I do not understand why you are so argumentative in every single thread you post in. You were mad because someone called you a troll but that is the exact behavior you exhibit in this thread. Wake up. You are not qualified to make informative statements about the entire U.S. population. Good grief.
 
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777Jet
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Many people will wait until they know the race or religious background of the attacker before they comment.

And the race / colour of the shooter and victims will determine how the public and various groups will interpret the crime and their response.

Quoting bgm (Reply 13):
... and if (s)he's:

- white, (s)he's a mentally ill person
- black, (s)he's a thug
- muslim, then (s)he's obviously a terrorist

Actually, if the shooter is white and the victim is black the shooter is automatically a racist and out come the protesters / riot police.

Whereas if the shooter is black and the victim is white the shooter is just a nut job - that's all.

Oh wait... This didn't involve a police officer  
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:22 am

Just like a number of Americans want American Muslims to distance themselves from the rogue members waging jihad both in US soil and abroad, I feel the NRA would have a more positive image if it sent out press releases offering condolences to the families and acknowledging irresponsible gun owners that do not serve its purpose and goals are not what they're about. I realize that not all gun owners are members of the NRA but then again, the NRA itself influences what you can and cannot do with guns since it's among the most powerful lobbyist groups in the country. Any bill that the NRA does not support is not passed (too many politicians in its pocket).

No, this isn't an attack on the NRA. It's a question of why it is silent. You can be for gun rights but still advocate and urge gun owners to be prudent, to undergo mental treatment if there's a situation that leads to depression...The silence (or lack of condemnation) is definitely open to various interpretations, not least of which is a quiet acceptance that shootings like these must happen for them to enjoy their rights (think about it: in a society that experiences no violence whatsoever and whose citizens do not have to fear of its government turning against them, is there a need to have a "well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"?)
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seb146
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:39 am

Someone on Michelangelo Segniroelli made a good suggestion: because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 56):
When you call me a troll you lose my respect.

When you misuse the Queen's language while managing to offend just about everyone, well, you figure out the rest...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 67):
because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?

Because cars are not a constitutionally guaranteed item unless explicitly defined or interpreted; hence, anything that hinders your access to a gun is grounds for outrage.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 57):
Well that's the problem with labeling it as a "mental illness" problem and not what it truly is. Anyone who goes out and kills another person, especially in cold blood, can be classified as "mentally ill" but that diagnosis will only occur AFTER the person kills someone.

There needs to be a better process in place PRIOR to the ownership of the gun. But "mental illness" often will not be identifiable. So you can't just focus on that.

Of course that is the issue. Everyone is coming out of the woodwork about "signs". The signs are very clear now that I should have sold GE short on Friday afternoon and then bought to cover at the open with a huge gain.

However gun ownership is a "right" in the US constitution. Not sure how you make it more difficult to own one.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 67):
why not do the same thing for guns?

Perhaps, but as it is a Constitutional right, expect a fight. The license and insurance might not do much but provide more of an incentive for the nuts out there to do lucrative euthanasia.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 67):

Someone on Michelangelo Segniroelli made a good suggestion: because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?

Sure we do for cars. What about mandatory insurance for airplanes? Why is there not a push for that? Realistically, lets start by enforcing the laws on the books. Prosecute people who get denied on a 4473, versus having the ATF take the stance that while it is a crime, they just flat out ignore it.

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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:29 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 66):
I feel the NRA would have a more positive image if it sent out press releases offering condolences to the families and acknowledging irresponsible gun owners that do not serve its purpose and goals are not what they're about.

The NRA has a strict 'no gun left behind' policy.

It's the same reason why no moderate conservative can get elected President, there's always a more conservative candidate around pulling them to the right, and so on, till all you're left with is someone who's lost the mainstream vote. Seems this year we'll see if Bernie Sanders will pull the Dems so far left that they're also unelectable.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 67):
because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?

Because the Constitution, especially as interpreted by the Roberts court.
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:50 am

You all are too focused on the gun here and not the nut job that did the killing.

Crazy people do crazy things, with many different tools including both legal and illegal firearms.

This was a gay, black man claiming issues with people accepting that, who also claimed he wanted to start a race war.
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BMI727
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:53 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 62):
Look at our gun violence and laws, then look at other countries

That's what is great about America: freedom matters. The idiocy of a few is not allowed to encroach on the liberty of everyone else. In this case anyway, I'm proud of people having the balls to not allow laws and choices dictated by the stupid.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 67):
Someone on Michelangelo Segniroelli made a good suggestion: because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?

You're just making the case for why the Bill of Rights is terrible legislation. The only reason we don't have a constitutional right to cars is because they weren't invented yet.

But, when you look at the intent, we really should have a right to drive. The right to bear arms was to help ensure that a government could not oppress citizens. If you want to be oppressive it is nearly as important to restrict communication and movement as it is to restrict armament.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 71):
Realistically, lets start by enforcing the laws on the books. Prosecute people who get denied on a 4473, versus having the ATF take the stance that while it is a crime, they just flat out ignore it.

The feds would be more than happy to crush your Defender though...
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kasimir
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:23 am

Here we go again... Another horrible shooting by a crazy person!

I could just copy paste my arguments from the last shooting thread in here, because it would fit perfectly for this shooting as well... But you know what, there is always another shooting just around the corner and I have better things to do... Sadly enough americans are immune to learn from history and admit failure!

Maybe Donald Trump will save you all and bring your country back!

Good luck America *shaking my head with a big facepalm*
 
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seb146
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:26 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
The only reason we don't have a constitutional right to cars is because they weren't invented yet.

The only reason we don't have a constitutional right to (semi) automatic weapons is because they weren't invented yet.
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Mir
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 71):
Realistically, lets start by enforcing the laws on the books.

Oh great, this tired talking point again. Makes you sound like you want to do something about gun control but actually indicates that you don't want anything meaningful done about it.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 71):
Prosecute people who get denied on a 4473, versus having the ATF take the stance that while it is a crime, they just flat out ignore it.

Except that it's not a crime. Being denied on a 4473 is not illegal. Lying on a 4473 is, but it's difficult to prove that someone lied on the form as opposed to making an honest mistake, and ultimately not worth ATF's time in light of the scarcity of their resources.

The law, as it is currently written, quite simply cannot be enforced the way you want it to without a massive increase in ATF's manpower. But even if such an increase in manpower were to exist, would you really want them spending their time on people who don't get guns as opposed to going after dishonest dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, or other people who present far more of a danger? That's just bad policing strategy, similar to demanding that police pull over every speeder on the road despite a clear and compelling case for letting the person going 2mph over the limit go so that you can be there to catch the person going 20mph over.

Instead, we should be amending the laws so that they're easier to enforce against the people listed above who present the most danger, and then if we've got spare resources after that we can look into whether someone knowingly lied on a background check or not.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
But, when you look at the intent, we really should have a right to drive.

We do in essence have a right to drive.

-Mir
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29erUSA187
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 37):
And this is exactly why I am always watching and looking everywhere around me when I visit that country. I loved visiting the cities but my experience was ruined by the fear of a shooting.

Thats a bit irrational. I've lived here 16 years and have yet to even have a shooting happen within a mile of me. (And I've driven through Compton before)

Quoting frostyj (Reply 44):
During my visit a few weeks ago I lost count the number of times I heard "this is America!" as it America is a completely different country to the rest of the world and has no problems. It actually infuriates me how ignorant these people are, clearly they never leave their own town.

You know why we can say that? Because we are the world power, the largest economy, and the first ones the world calls when crap happens

Lay off the America hate. Its pretty good over here, I'm sure you have your Psycho's over there too.
 
frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:02 am

Err?? Did I say I hated anyone?? Where?
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seb146
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:17 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 80):
Err?? Did I say I hated anyone?? Where?

I get what you are saying. I drive through some pretty bad areas all the time. I am always on my guard as I don't know when bullets will fly. Problem is, people in the United States will buy all the guns they can and scream "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" even while they are screaming "EVERY LIFE IS SACRED!!!" when someone guns down a movie house full of innocent people. And they still don't get it.

What about my right to live? What about my right to walk down the street without fear of being gunned down because 'Murica and we need guns?

Quoting Mir (Reply 78):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
But, when you look at the intent, we really should have a right to drive.

We do in essence have a right to drive.

Commerce and capitalism and democracy.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:27 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 18):
Apparently the shooter filmed the shooting and uploaded a video from his viewpoint to his Facebook account, saw it a link on some wannabe detective forum... What a crazy world.

Seems like the offender and the victims were familiar with each other, from work I guess.

Here's the video from shooter's viewpoint, very disturbing:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=225_1...02498

That is disturbing - in more ways than one. It shows the premeditation of a cold-blooded murder as it happens.

Many people are jumping with glee over this (including Obama) trying to make this about gun control. That's not the main issue here. The main issue is that we have developed a society which celebrates (in terms of media coverage) people who feel angry at society, coworkers, whatever who go apeshit and launch a killing spree. He did the shooting with a f...ing camera in his hand - he was doing it for ratings! This murder probably never would have happened if the media (including facebook, youtube, liveleaks etc) simply refused to air any such footage, or publicize such killers' manifestos and grievances. This guy was looking for media attention, and he knew well beforehand that he would get it.

American society used to be centered around "man-the-fuck-up". Sure, sometimes life is not fair, but you sucked it up and kept going. It seems to me that more and more people are of the "if I don't get things my way, then it's everyone else's fault and I have a right to retribution" mindset.

[Edited 2015-08-26 22:33:41]
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 79):
This murder probably never would have happened if the media (including facebook, youtube, liveleaks etc) simply refused to air any such footage, or publicize such killers' manifestos and grievances. This guy was looking for media attention, and he knew well beforehand that he would get it.

The guy who wrote a book on the Columbine killers was on AC360 and basically said the above, but quite angrily. He said Anderson Cooper and Megyn Kelly were the only media persons who have gone on record refusing to use killers' names on air, and that the rest of the industry is both complicit and inept when it comes to preventing their role in these slayings.

He noted that prior to Columbine there were mass killings in the US, but none of them with express intent of media attention except for serial cases like Zodiac. Now in the social media age, this is a huge incentive for people who are already wackjobbed to get the infamy they desire.

What will it take to get the US media machine to fall in line with what needs to happen??
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Airstud
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 26):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 79):
Many people are jumping with glee over this (including Obama)

This was out of line. I am quite certain he is as saddened as anyone by this tragic turn of events. Your claim, with zero substantiation, that this event has him "jumping with glee" is nauseating.

[Edited 2015-08-26 22:48:58]
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:44 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 81):
Your claim, with zero substantiation, that this event has him "jumping with glee" is nauseating.

Wow, read right past in his post that somehow. Absolutely agree.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 79):
Many people are jumping with glee over this (including Obama) trying to make this about gun control.

I believe the direct quote from POTUS was that the incident was 'heartbreaking'. Pretty low Charles, especially absent any evidence.
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Dreadnought
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:00 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 81):
Tthis was out of line. I am quite certain he is as saddened as anyone by this tragic turn of events. Your claim, with zero substantiation, that this event has him "jumping with glee" is nauseating.

Anyone who turns something like this into political fuel for a pet cause is indeed nauseating, and while "glee" might be an overstatement, for which I apologize, I am sure than Obama and others felt a smug feeling of "hey, another chance for me to turn this to my advantage". I'm pretty sure that is accurate.

This is a video I've had in my favorites folder for years - this guy nails it. Make sure to watch the whole thing.

https://youtu.be/d_DNC3JcQPM
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 83):
I am sure than Obama and others felt a smug feeling of "hey, another chance for me to turn this to my advantage". I'm pretty sure that is accurate.

Sure, and then 'pretty sure'. Bizarre that you know Obama feels this way, yet state in another thread that Cheney must be a 'nice and compassionate' guy because a friend told you so. Not the best showing here, Charles.

Don't blame me though, George Carlin told me to question everything.

[Edited 2015-08-26 23:10:47]
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11Bravo
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:24 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 79):
Many people are jumping with glee over this (including Obama) trying to make this about gun control.

What a completely insane thing to say,... Wow. I would suggest that erases the last tiny sliver of credibility you might of had regarding this subject. That is some deep-deep right field materiel. Good grief.
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notaxonrotax
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 83):
Obama and others felt a smug feeling of "hey, another chance for me to turn this to my advantage". I'm pretty sure that is accurate.

Yeah, I am sure they opened up a bottle of champagne in the white house when they heard about it.

Pretty tasteless accusations towards your POTUS, mate.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 85):

What a completely insane thing to say,... Wow. I would suggest that erases the last tiny sliver of credibility you might of had regarding this subject. That is some deep-deep right field materiel. Good grief.

Yep.

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Kiwirob
Posts: 12201
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting AI121 (Reply 42):
WARNING! Disturbing Content

After seeing this I'm simply dumbfounded over the comments of a talking head on the news this morning, he said the reporters should have been armed, if they were they would be alive today. When you look at the shooters video they didn't even know he was their, if they were armed there is no way they would have had the opportunity to draw them, the result would have been the same, two dead and one critically injured.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 65):
Someone on Michelangelo Segniroelli made a good suggestion: because we require licenses and insurance for cars, why not do the same thing for guns?

I asked that questioon on this forum many many times, the response is why should I require a license when owning a gun is my right under the constitution.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 72):
That's what is great about America: freedom matters.

It no longer matters, you enacted the Patriot Act, it was a pretty huge curtail on Americans freedoms.
 
Cadet985
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:46 am

I've been thinking about this tragedy all day. Of course, many will call for more laws and gun control. The problem with this is that laws, controls, etc., they're for honest people. Criminals don't care about laws.

The shooter was apparently a disgruntled former employee at the station - and I heard on my local news tonight, he had to be escorted out of the station by police when he was fired. So, a guy goes to buy a gun. He passes the checks. There is no reason not to sell him a gun. It's not like anyone knew he was disgruntled, or what he had been planning. I don't see where adding more checks would do anything to prevent events like this in the future. A person't employment history, etc. shouldn't matter.

I'm feeling like we're in a situation where were darned if we do, and we're darned if we don't.

Two promising, young individuals are dead, and I don't see how anything could have been done to prevent it. The fact that they are dead, and the fact that I don't see how it could have been prevented saddens me.

I'm heartbroken for their colleagues, families, and friends.

As we say in Judaism, may their memories be a blessing.

Marc
 
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scbriml
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:47 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 59):
Guns should be subject to getting licensed to operate, just like cars. An operator should be subjected to competency testing to ensure safe operation. Just like with cars. For something tremendously more dangerous than cars, it should not be easier to get a gun than to get a car.

Would be a very logical minimum requirement.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 61):
When that happens, we can blame liberals all we want, but in reality, it's going to be us gun-owners' fault collectively.

Then why do so few gun owners engage in the debate instead of just crying that "They want to take our guns away?"

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 67):
Because cars are not a constitutionally guaranteed item unless explicitly defined or interpreted; hence, anything that hinders your access to a gun is grounds for outrage.

Yes, that tired old excuse. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 68):
However gun ownership is a "right" in the US constitution.

Right on cue!   

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 83):
Anyone who turns something like this into political fuel for a pet cause is indeed nauseating

I assume you include the NRA in that statement?
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Aesma
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:56 am

Some members here (and a big NRA argument) think that in countries where most people don't own handguns, people live in oppressive societies. But the thing is, most people don't want handguns. In my country (France) it's not difficult to get a legal gun. Sure there is some paperwork involved (including a doctor's bill of health), but really it's not hard if that's what you want. Getting a driver's license is much more involved. Yet less than a million people do it, mostly for sport shooting.
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:41 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 88):
I don't see how anything could have been done to prevent it.

Perhaps not, but there's a chance that if the media held itself to a modicum of standards and refused to front-bill these kind of stories with the shooter's name, it would negate the infamy payout some wackjobs are seeking.

As the guy on CNN put it this morning, these people know that if they pull one of these off, they'll be bigger in name recognition than Brad Pitt for at least a week. It's sick, but it works.
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us330
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:14 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 36):
And this is exactly why I am always watching and looking everywhere around me when I visit that country. I loved visiting the cities but my experience was ruined by the fear of a shooting.

That's on you for being melodramatic. Whenever you drive or are out on the roads, are you paranoid that you are going to get hit by a car or in a car accident?

I've lived in a variety of places, some that allow open-carry, and others that have banned guns but are still crime-ridden. I've never heard a single gun-shot in the U.S. outside of a rifle range.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 48):
I'm just back from DC and witnessed alot of this attitude of acting like America is infallible.

They are politicians. That's their job. You aren't going to get elected in this country if you don't say something like that.

Actually, having lived in DC for five years, there are plenty of people there who criticize the U.S. all the time. DC may be full of people who act like America is infallible, but it's also the hub of American self-criticism.

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 51):
I am sick of the NRA

That's because the NRA stopped being about responsible gun owners and became the chief lobby arm for the firearm industry.

I have no problem with responsible gun ownership and responsible firearm use, but the NRA abandoned that position a long time ago.
 
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casinterest
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 83):
I'm pretty sure that is accurate.

I am pretty sure that you couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with your bias leading the charge.
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Dreadnought
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 89):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 83):
Anyone who turns something like this into political fuel for a pet cause is indeed nauseating

I assume you include the NRA in that statement?

I've looked on the NRA website and googled it - The NRA has not made any statement in regard to this shooting. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only people who have made any sort of political statement on this issue have been gun-control advocates, who as I said are using this event to their advantage.

Boy, a lot of people got their knickers in a twist at what I said. Man up and grow a pair, will ya?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 91):
Perhaps not, but there's a chance that if the media held itself to a modicum of standards and refused to front-bill these kind of stories with the shooter's name, it would negate the infamy payout some wackjobs are seeking.

As the guy on CNN put it this morning, these people know that if they pull one of these off, they'll be bigger in name recognition than Brad Pitt for at least a week. It's sick, but it works.

That is exactly my point. These nutcases want to go out in a blaze of publicity. "I'll be famous".

What if the media (including social media) imposed an effective embargo on such material - removing the perpetrator's name and all other identifying details from reports until at least the end of all criminal proceedings. All that would be reported is that two are dead. I would be very curious to know whether such a lack of visibility would dissuade a large proportion of such rampages. I'm guessing they would.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
coolian2
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:07 pm

I've always wondered why there's such a high correlation of people who think it's OK to tell women what to with their bodies who steadfastly refuse any thought of gun control.

If you're one of these people, you're the worst kind of person.
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frostyj
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 92):

Actually I stayed right across from the Pentagon and we had many, many soldiers there. It was an interesting experience, it's not something i've experienced before.

I definitely thought that people worshipped the soldiers though...
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 89):
Would be a very logical minimum requirement.

Yes, make recurrent training required for a gun, but not for a car. Totally completely stupid idea. The day that you have to take a new drivers test every 5 years, I could be persuaded to start talking some sort of similar idea for gun issues. You think there are a lot of pissed off gun owners, tell motor vehicle operators they have to test every 5 years, and you'll really see a group of pissed off people.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 94):
I've looked on the NRA website and googled it - The NRA has not made any statement in regard to this shooting. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only people who have made any sort of political statement on this issue have been gun-control advocates, who as I said are using this event to their advantage.

Of course the NRA hasn't, they know whatever they say, the words would be twisted. The liberal anti movement rejoices every time a shooting happens, as they can use it to push their agenda. So much so that it's nearing the point of people seeing through it. The governor of the state was saying that the gun was bought illegally and pushing for more background checks, just hours after the event happened, with no way to know that quick how the gun was obtained.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9016
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 94):
What if the media (including social media) imposed an effective embargo on such material - removing the perpetrator's name and all other identifying details from reports until at least the end of all criminal proceedings. All that would be reported is that two are dead. I would be very curious to know whether such a lack of visibility would dissuade a large proportion of such rampages. I'm guessing they would.

I doubt it. History has been littered with poor choice individuals and groups even without "Media restraint".

Jonestown
Hale Bopp
Waco
Killing fields

Some others from older history below

http://www.oddee.com/item_98772.aspx
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Aaron747
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RE: WDBJ7 Reporter & Camerman Dead

Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:13 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 98):
Jonestown
Hale Bopp
Waco
Killing fields

Completely irrelevant red herring. The types of killings being seen now take full advantage of the social media-fueled 24 hour news cycle.
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