• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9289
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 187):

I read your objection as being quite limited: that KY should accommodate her and people like her to some extent. Excuse me if you've already answered this, it's a long thread and I haven't read it all.

Not just accommodate but operate within Kentucky laws. Even in Jail she is still an elected official until Kentucky impeaches her. It seems that Kentucy should be made to deal more directly with this issue within their jurisdiction, whether by making a law that accommodates citizens more directly either through an alternative clerk, changing the certificate process, a host of other things, or Impeach her.

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 187):

I've heard your "change in the law" point. Is that all that your argument rests on? So that, hypothetically, if divorce only became legal tomorrow, we'd have to accomodate the Catholic?

Yes until the laws within his jurisdiction catch up to the legal issue.

Unless we change the laws to fire with cause those elected officials that refuse to do their duty, we should make accommodations to have them taken out of the process so that the citizens have access and don't have to wait for the slow wheels of government, and the misguided don't wind up in prison for their own self causes.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11843
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 175):
Just to clarify, Kim Davis is a Democrat, not a Republican.

I guess a Democrat in Kentucky is similar to a Tea Partier in New York...

;D

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 192):
I guess I qualify as 'a genuine old-style Catholic,' if I fit into any of the categories listed above.  

In my case there was no doubt in my mind that the main 'purpose' of getting married was that we were morally and officially 'required' by law to do our best to look after any kids that we might have. As it turned out, we had three, and I guess we 'successfully' brought up all of them.

Surely, in the case of 'same-sex marriage,' given that no kids will be involved, there need be no such requirement? So what is the point of such same-sex marriages, why are they considered necessary? Leave alone desirable?

One of the goal of marriage equality legislation (or no legislation in the bizarre US system) is to allow same-sex couples to have children recognized by society as their children. With of course adoption being part of the process.

Without it, you often have bad situations when the official father/mother dies, especially if his/her family wasn't accepting of the life of their offspring.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 9407
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
There were more options including a fix from the Kentucky legislature. Now we get to sit around paying for someone in prison.

And this was also a perfectly valid option.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 192):
So what is the point of such same-sex marriages, why are they considered necessary? Leave alone desirable?

There many huge benefits to "being married" and these have been demonstrated and documented over the years. From the numerous health benefits that have been shown, to the legal ones, the benefits are almost too many to list. But at the core of this issue is a public declaration of love, and a recognition by the state that they recognize said union and so each can speak for the other if absolutely needed. It is a huge thing to know that "you are not alone in the world", that you have made and had made to you, vows with another person that holds you as their "one and only". Of course this can often fail, we all know that, but the power in that declaration and public recognition it worth all the risks to those that wish it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 199):
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton posted a message Thursday saying that government officials should "uphold the law – end of story."

  
Glad to see you supporting and agreeing with Hillary. I would never have thunk it, but the world is an amazing place!  

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4678
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 53):
God's Law may have force in the hearts of deeply religious people, but it does not override the Constitution, the Supreme Court of the clear separation of church and state.

That's my point. I accept that deeply religious people believe in god's law. However, we're a secular nation, and she took an oath to uphold the US and Kentucky constitutions. She can't claim "god's law" in her official capacity.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 181):
If you want to make this political,

Says the guy reminding us that she's a Democratic and not Republican...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 199):
I thought public employees were free to do or not do whatever the hell they wished... certainly felt that way the last time I was in the DMV. What's the difference here?

What was that again about making things political?
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10202
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 203):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 181):
If you want to make this political,

Says the guy reminding us that she's a Democratic and not Republican...

In response to others implying she was Republican.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 203):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 199):
I thought public employees were free to do or not do whatever the hell they wished... certainly felt that way the last time I was in the DMV. What's the difference here?

What was that again about making things political?

I did not say this.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14323
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:43 pm

Many will say Davis is being subject to persecution for her Christian faith - what is happening to her is nothing compared to that of ISIS and others in the ME, Africa, China and South Asia upon Christians (as well as other faiths) including rape, murder, making people refugees by the 10's of 1000's, bombing churches, attacking ministers, forced to live in violent occupation, destruction of businesses and property. That is real persecution for your faith.

Now there may be challenges to the marriage licenses and other papers issued by this county office since Davis has been jailed as they don't have her or a facsimile signature. This is just one big long train wreck all because of one woman.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:45 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 192):
Surely, in the case of 'same-sex marriage,' given that no kids will be involved, there need be no such requirement?

In some cases, children will be involved - surrogate children or adoptees.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 192):
So what is the point of such same-sex marriages, why are they considered necessary? Leave alone desirable?

One of the reasons the concept of marriage was constructed was to control rampant fornication and to sort out issues of inheritance. Not that the Patriarchs paid much attention to the idea of one man/one woman, as recorded in the Old Testament.

I have no desire to get married, I prefer to be an old-fashioned subversive queer, having relationships - and one night stands - unfettered by any long term commitment, although some of those occasional relationships have lasted many years. There's a long list of blokes, essentially straight, often married, who loved a bit of diddling with blokes like me on the side, especially in outback Australia - LOL - and it isn't just about the sex.

But if two blokes do want to get married and conform, however nominally, to a heterosexual concept of monogamy and life long commitment, bless their cotton socks, why not?

mariner

[Edited 2015-09-04 13:52:58]
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:12 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 201):
I guess a Democrat in Kentucky is similar to a Tea Partier in New York...

Democrats in Kentucky are much more conservative than Democrats in New York or California.

Besides, this is not a "Democrats vs Republicans" thing. This is a "I am forcing everyone to live by my interpretation of religious law" thing.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21555
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 207):
Besides, this is not a "Democrats vs Republicans" thing. This is a "I am forcing everyone to live by my interpretation of religious law" thing.

And this is what it comes down to.

"But they could just go to another county and get married!" No, bad precedent. What happens when no other clerk will do it, or when they have to travel hundreds of miles to find one who will? What happens when some bureaucrat then decides that his or her "religious liberty" lets him ignore that marriage once done? Should a hospital be able to refuse to recognize one of the couple as a "next of kin" and refuse visitation rights and grant medical decision-making to the sick partner's estranged family? Should an IRS bureaucrat be free to simply reject their joint tax return? What is the litmus test as to whether an objection is truly religious vs. bigoted? Who should make that determination?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4678
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
I did not say this.

You're right. My mistake. Misattributed quote.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4712
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 205):
Many will say Davis is being subject to persecution for her Christian faith

And they would just as correct if they said Richard Reid was subjected to persecution for his Muslim faith.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Ken777
Posts: 9906
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 208):
And this is what it comes down to.

Well said
 
LMP737
Posts: 5902
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:40 am

Lets be honest here Ms Davis is cherry picking the parts of the bible she wants to follow. If she honestly believes she will go to hell for issuing a marriage license then I have news for her. She's already screwed because she violates it's tenets on a day to day basis. If you read the bible and were to follow it word for word you would either end up in jail or the nut house.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:55 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 212):
If you read the bible and were to follow it word for word you would either end up in jail or the nut house.

or the Nürnberg Trails. Genocide is one of the old testaments Hobbies. Abraham was a pimp and a Child abuser, Moses an genocidal ethnical cleaner in the search for Lebensraum.......
And women are worthless, of course.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Cerecl
Posts: 574
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 200):
It seems that Kentucy should be made to deal more directly with this issue within their jurisdiction

Laws change all the time, it makes no sense for "accommodations" to be made whenever there is a change that clashes with someone's belief. If you have a problem with the law change, you apply for it to be nullified or for you to be exempt to the relevant judicial organisation. In her case, three levels of such organisation (including the highest court of the land) has turned her down.

As has been pointed out many times, the county clerk's job is not to bless/endorse marriages, it is to certify that the two people who seek to get married have satisfied the LEGAL requirement to do so. Not only did she refuse to perform her job (which really does not clash with her belief if she actually correctly interprets what it is), she also prevents others who may or may not hold the same belief from doing their job. Further, she also refuses to vacate her position so that other people can actually step in when there is a conflict. Just how thick she has to be if she really thought this is legal/reasonable/tenable?
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
NAV30
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:16 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:13 pm

Can't work all these things out, somehow? But, to my mind it boils down to, 'Why should people in homosexual relationships enjoy any of the privileges and protections applied to man-woman marriages by the common law?'

Can't see why, really. Tax advantages etc. applying to married couples appear to be aimed at allowing such couples to claim tax allowances etc. to help them to bring up kids. That clearly does not apply to homosexual partnerships, which are by their nature 'childless,' so that both members can go on earning a living?

Possible adoption of children by same-sex couples is a 'whole new area' - before any such thing is officially authorised, I would prefer to see an authoritative study on the pros and cons of any such initiative. My current feeling is that, 'seen from here,' children adopted by 'same-sex' couples would have a much-reduced chance of receiving any sort of 'normal' upbringing?

I haven't got a closed mind on the subject, though. Happy to read other people's views on the topic?
 
luckyone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 215):

Those studies have been done. All of them show that the kids turn out no different than "traditional kids." Some of them show that said kids actually do better because they're brought up in homes that actually want them and have gone through a lot to get them, as opposed to kids who were the unintended products of coupling, which lets be real is a lot of kids.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 216):
Those studies have been done.

I think the first same sex family is depicted in a french cave and 30.000 years old. A kid with its two mommy's.
Human kind is still around......

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7599
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 212):
She's already screwed because she violates it's tenets on a day to day basis.

Ah, but here's the magic of religion (Christianity in particular): if you convert and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your slate is wiped clean. Hence, as of now, she's sin free and wishes to remain that way.

Oh you were a serial killer in the past? You divorced umpteen times? It's all in the past. The important thing is that you saw the light. Hence, that doesn't count anymore.

  

Quoting cerecl (Reply 214):
Further, she also refuses to vacate her position so that other people can actually step in when there is a conflict.

Furthermore, she also refuses to allow her deputies to do the job. She could have remained in her post and kept refusing to do so. That's what deputies are there for, and even then she strictly prohibited any of her deputies from carrying out the task.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 215):
'Why should people in homosexual relationships enjoy any of the privileges and protections applied to man-woman marriages by the common law?'

The question is: "Why shouldn't they?" What is it about two people loving each other and being in a committed relationship that makes you question if they're worthy of being sanctioned by the state? They love each other, they want to be able to take advantage of the benefits of being married...seems like no skin off my nose or yours or the state's.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 215):
My current feeling is that, 'seen from here,' children adopted by 'same-sex' couples would have a much-reduced chance of receiving any sort of 'normal' upbringing?

That 'feeling' most likely reveals more stuff than you'd want actually. By the post, it sounds like you're cautious if not slightly biased against them. As was mentioned in a latter post: studies have been done and show no difference between kids in a heterosexual marriage and kids in a homosexual marriage.

I would go a step further and predict that subsequent studies will find that kids raised in a same sex couple household are likely to be better off, not just by what luckyone said, but also because there's no pressure for them to hide stuff from their parents. Have we ever heard of a case where gay/lesbian parents disown a child because they told their parents they're straight? Have we ever heard of a case where these same parents impose their lifestyle onto their kids (as in, you better be gay or else)?

The only hardship in their upbringing are those imposed by the state for not recognizing that two adults are in a committed relationship and that they have a child whom the two adults wish to be legal guardians of. When the state removes those roadblocks (particularly recognizing their marriage), then will any subsequent hardships be eased.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:44 pm

How did she not know the couples were in relationships? How did she know what the couples do behind closed doors?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 215):
Possible adoption of children by same-sex couples is a 'whole new area' - before any such thing is officially authorised, I would prefer to see an authoritative study on the pros and cons of any such initiative.

It isn;t all that new - my mother was raised in a same sex household, as were uncounted numbers of children whose fathers were killed in the First World War- and numerous studies have been done. Here's one:

http://qz.com/438469/the-science-is-...ex-parents-are-at-no-disadvantage/

"The science is clear: Children raised by same-sex parents are at no disadvantage"

In Australia, several states recognise same-sex partnerships and adoption rights - but not marriage - although Victoria lags behind some other states in the matter of same sex adoption:

http://www.vglrl.org.au/campaigns/same-sex-adoption

"The VGLRL believes that all children and parents should have the opportunity to live in a loving family. Same-sex couples can jointly adopt in New South Wales, the ACT, Western Australia and Tasmania but Victoria is yet to legalise joint adoption for same-sex couples."

It's depressing to me that Victoria, which used to be my home state, is so regressive in this regard, putting an unfair emotional and legal burden on the children adopted by only one parent. What happens if the legal parent dies, where does that leave the surviving partner - and the child?

Still, ending on a happier note, here's Zack Wahls, who had been called "the poster child for same sex parenting":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ

"Zach Wahls Speaks About Family"

mariner

[Edited 2015-09-06 14:27:37]
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2008
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:45 pm

Thirty Government Officials In North Carolina Are Now All Refusing To Conduct Homosexual Marriages

http://shoebat.com/2015/09/04/thirty...g-to-conduct-homosexual-marriages/

I guess the Feds can start building out their re-education camps .... if these numbers continue.   

[Edited 2015-09-06 13:45:44]
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
LMP737
Posts: 5902
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 221):
I guess the Feds can start building out their re-education camps .... if these numbers continue.   

Or maybe they should tell them to start living their lives word for word according to the bible. Because until they do so they are nothing more than bigoted cherry picking frauds.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:18 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 208):
And this is what it comes down to.

"But they could just go to another county and get married!" No, bad precedent. What happens when no other clerk will do it, or when they have to travel hundreds of miles to find one who will? What happens when some bureaucrat then decides that his or her "religious liberty" lets him ignore that marriage once done? Should a hospital be able to refuse to recognize one of the couple as a "next of kin" and refuse visitation rights and grant medical decision-making to the sick partner's estranged family? Should an IRS bureaucrat be free to simply reject their joint tax return? What is the litmus test as to whether an objection is truly religious vs. bigoted? Who should make that determination?

They issued 4 marriage licensee to same sex couples last Friday, from jail Kim Davis said the marriage certificates are void because they don't have her authorization . Thank goodness we have a judicial system to protect us from people who don't think all people are created equal.

Yet, i'm bothered that as soon as she gets out of jail, she's going to make those four couples life's as miserable as her's.

[Edited 2015-09-06 15:21:43]
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7599
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:02 pm

And in the latest twist, a TN judge is refusing to grant a straight couple a divorce because...gay marriage.

Quote:
With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’ s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.
Source

I would have supported him had he claim that divorce goes against his religious beliefs...oh well. Another scapegoat then.

[Edited 2015-09-06 16:03:03]
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17579
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:03 am

Serious question, where are the real "christians" protesting this nonsense? We always expect muslims to protest every muslim terrorist/nutjob, so where are the christians picking up the torch to denounce Kim Davis? I shall blame all christians for her actions.
Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 223):
Yet, i'm bothered that as soon as she gets out of jail, she's going to make those four couples life's as miserable as her's.

I wouldn't expect otherwise from the christian right; it's what they think Jesus would do.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 213):
Abraham was a pimp and a Child abuser, Moses an genocidal ethnical cleaner in the search for Lebensraum.......

Glory unto Him!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 218):
Oh you were a serial killer in the past? You divorced umpteen times? It's all in the past. The important thing is that you saw the light. Hence, that doesn't count anymore.

How convenient! Religion always seems to guarantee your sins are wiped away (but not those other heathens, heavens no!) and your easy access to sex (but not those others; they're evil!). What a coincidence.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 224):
I would have supported him had he claim that divorce goes against his religious beliefs...oh well. Another scapegoat then.

Well...I suppose one dumb religious nut deserves another. At least he's being consistent. Let's see some of them get old testament and stone each other. It'd be a great alternative to UFC. Ultimate (old testament) Fightin' Christians!

[Edited 2015-09-06 17:20:13]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LMP737
Posts: 5902
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 224):
And in the latest twist, a TN judge is refusing to grant a straight couple a divorce because...gay marriage.

Quote:
With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’ s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.
Source

I would have supported him had he claim that divorce goes against his religious beliefs...oh well. Another scapegoat then.

[Edited 2015-09-06 16:03:03]

Saw the video of her husband. Wish someone would ask him what the bible says about adulterers.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 226):
Wish someone would ask him what the bible says about adulterers.

Well, we "respect" religion too much to ask religious people pointed questions. Did anyone ever asked a "pro-lifer" how he reconciles all the abortions god had his henchmen carry out with his position?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 225):
Serious question, where are the real "christians" protesting this nonsense? We always expect muslims to protest every muslim terrorist/nutjob, s

Well, when Christians are evil, we don't call them christians. Period. We call them Unionists or Nationalists or such. How many times did you hear Timothy McVeigh refered to as Christian terrorist? Or how many believe Hitler was an atheist, just because they don't want to see him as a Christian?

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 223):
Yet, i'm bothered that as soon as she gets out of jail, she's going to make those four couples life's as miserable as her's.

Nah, there is a good chance that, while in prison, God will tell her that she serves him best by becoming a missionary for his cause. At a few 1000$ per speech of course, one has to eat after all.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17477
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 224):
I would have supported him had he claim that divorce goes against his religious beliefs...oh well.

Why? He's supposed to administer the rule of law, not force his religious beliefs on others. He shouldn't be a judge if he can't distinguish between the law and mythical legend.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 225):
Serious question, where are the real "christians" protesting this nonsense? We always expect muslims to protest every muslim terrorist/nutjob, so where are the christians picking up the torch to denounce Kim Davis? I shall blame all christians for her actions.

They are, but they're protesting against her imprisonment. Did you not read the shoebat link in #221? I've never seen so much hatred from people who call themselves christians. It's pretty funny.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 228):
I've never seen so much hatred from people who call themselves christians.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:10 am

Silly me. i was thinking that her going to jail probably wasn't the best way to avoid same-sex couples.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 227):
At a few 1000$ per speech of course

Only $1000? So many cheap jokes one could make....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:22 am

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 221):
Thirty Government Officials In North Carolina Are Now All Refusing To Conduct Homosexual Marriages

They are, however, allowing others to do it on their behalf. If Kim Davis would have done the same, she would never have gone to jail.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7599
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:49 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 228):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 224):
I would have supported him had he claim that divorce goes against his religious beliefs...oh well.

Why? He's supposed to administer the rule of law, not force his religious beliefs on others. He shouldn't be a judge if he can't distinguish between the law and mythical legend.

It would have been a more valid excuse, though it still falls short and can't be used.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:54 pm

Thank God Almighty, the persecution of the White Christian majority ruling this country has finally ended. Kim Davis is free!

The judge who held her in contempt released her after receiving confirmation her office issued several licenses this past Friday. Deputies consulted with the county attorney and designed a new form that does not carry Kim Davis' name or require her intervention to be issued.

The judge warned Kim Davis she'd be back in jail pronto if she interferes with the issuance of licenses by her deputies in any way.

Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz must be sorely disappointed. They were planning to visit their human prop, I mean martyr to the cause in jail this very afternoon. Yet again this judge interferes with the Christian agenda!

[Edited 2015-09-08 12:55:08]
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 234):
Yet again this judge interferes with the Christian agenda!

Well, if she is serious about her "faith", she'd be back in jail by thursday, because first thing in the morning she is going to interfere. If 5 days in jail already do it for her, well, I guess her faith was as song as her marriages lasted till death did part them.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
luckyone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:34 pm

In all not a bad decision from the judge. The outcome has been achieved. Any additional time in jail is just going to serve as a platform for Senator Cruz and former Gov. Huckleberry to grandstand and rake in the cash. It's also amusing that despite her "ready to go to jail" statements she wasted little time having her leech of an attorney file requests to let her out.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 235):
If 5 days in jail already do it for her, well, I guess her faith was as song as her marriages lasted till death did part them.

Don't you understand, she was A DIFFERENT PERSON THEN. Her sins have been completely forgiven *poof* and now she's entitled to tell other people who to live!

That's probably my biggest rub with the fundamental branch of Christianity, that their sins are completely irrelevant and you shouldn't be so rude as to bring them up, but by golly they sure do have all the authority and feel entitled to treat others in a way that they themselves were never treated. People like that seem to be firm believers in salvation-by-proxy.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 235):
Well, if she is serious about her "faith", she'd be back in jail by thursday, because first thing in the morning she is going to interfere.

I expect her deputies to in one way or another tell her to bog off. All but one of them has sworn before a federal judge that they would issue said licenses, and they themselves would now be looking at jail time if they complied with any such direction from Ms. Davis. Most likely such a conversation has already taken place, prior to her release.
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:47 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 236):
I expect her deputies to in one way or another tell her to bog off. All but one of them has sworn before a federal judge that they would issue said licenses, and they themselves would now be looking at jail time if they complied with any such direction from Ms. Davis.

She's still their boss, and has announced she's going back to work this week. Her attorney said "She'll do her job good. She'll serve the people...and she'll also be loyal to God, and she's not going to violate her conscience.", whatever that may mean, although the last bit is not encouraging.

AFAIK, the requirement for her signature on the marriage certificates has not been altered. Presumably the deputy clerks have been either stamping her name on the certificates they've issued during her incapacity, or they've been issuing certificates which need now to be accepted by Davis (not sure what the rules in KY are).

FWIW, if Davis ordered the deputy clerks to stop issuing licenses, I doubt they'd be in trouble with the court, at least until such a time when they were directly ordered by the court to issue licenses (which has not happened).
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7599
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 236):
All but one of them has sworn before a federal judge that they would issue said licenses, and they themselves would now be looking at jail time if they complied with any such direction from Ms. Davis.

The did so reluctantly, and they'll be placed in the same spot all of the AL probate judges were. The SCOAL said that probate judges should not follow a federal court order, but the federal judge insisted that they do...who do they obey? The deputies will be in the same spot: Davis is their boss, but to follow her orders means they'd be going back against an agreement with a federal judge. Who wins here?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 236):
All but one of them has sworn before a federal judge that they would issue said licenses, and they themselves would now be looking at jail time if they complied with any such direction from Ms. Davis.

The way I understand it she goes back to jail the moment she tries to interfere with the issuing.

Quote:
“Defendant Davis shall not interfere in any way, directly or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples,” and that the deputies would report to him every two weeks. “If Defendant Davis should interfere in any way with their issuance, that will be considered a violation of this order and appropriate sanctions will be considered.”

Fines would still just be paid by her fundamentalist friends, that kinda limits sanctions.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17579
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 236):
The outcome has been achieved. Any additional time in jail is just going to serve as a platform for Senator Cruz and former Gov. Huckleberry to grandstand and rake in the cash

Meh a) neither of them have a snowballs chance in hell and b) I think every day more people are onto the hypocritical scam that christianity is. I say more jail and lose the key.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:33 am

Well, praise Mary, Joseph and the little baby Jesus the savior of 'Murica is out and she can continue to insist that her fourth marriage and her two born out of wedlock children are more Christian and holy. Praise be.

Can the governor remove her from office? Or the Secretary of the Commonwealth? Or even treat her as a child: Now, Kimmy, you did wrong and you need to understand that. You still need to be punished so we will let you sit at your desk while you see how your job is supposed to be done.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7599
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 241):
Can the governor remove her from office? Or the Secretary of the Commonwealth?

Just like the US President or the Secretary of State cannot remove the justices from the SCOTUS, Gov. Beshear and Secretary Grimes do not have the power to do that; that resides within the legislature and with a gubernatorial election this year, neither side will rock the boat.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14323
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:14 am

I am a little skeptical about her 'release'. I wonder if some key Republicans and Democrats put pressure on the US Justice Dept. or President Obama or a decision was 'encouraged' on the Judge so not to become a big rallying point - as it was becoming - for the Republican party. Better to let her loose, give in for political reasons, take the wind out of the sails of the religious zealots. Of course, she could go back to denying same-gender marriage license, but likely face immediate arrest if does so. Apparently too a small number of protester were hanging out in front of the home of the Judge. That is unacceptable in terms of the Judge, his family, neighbors safety and possibly swaying the judge.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:49 am

i don't know, but she crying before the camera's like she's not all there.

it's pathetic.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 242):
Just like the US President or the Secretary of State cannot remove the justices from the SCOTUS,

I was asking because states have their own laws which have to fall in line with federal law, for the most part. Pot is a glaring exception.

In this case, because a county clerk is a government employee and the SoS or Governor are above her, I am wondering if they could do something to ensure she follows federal law?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 243):
Better to let her loose, give in for political reasons, take the wind out of the sails of the religious zealots.

It was a very very bad idea to let her go. It will now embolden the zealots and crazies. They will insist the United States is a Christian nation founded on Biblical principle and demand that laws be followed as such. Except for the divorce and adultery and pork and blended fabric and menstruation and.... Just the gay stuff.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:12 am

It is embarrassing, but we are used to it. sadly.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20725
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 246):

It is embarrassing, but we are used to it. sadly.

The tyranny of the minority
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11843
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:31 am

I just watched the morning news and they talked about a new theater production about two men asking a Catholic priest to marry them. I'm sure the fundamentalists will enjoy it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Issuing Same Sex Marriage Licenses And Religion

Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:36 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 245):
In this case, because a county clerk is a government employee and the SoS or Governor are above her, I am wondering if they could do something to ensure she follows federal law?

A governor doesn't have authority over a county clerk. Besides, if she isn't willing to listen to a federal judge, why would she suddenly decide that God answers to the governor of Kentucky. Short of removing her from office, which the governor cannot do, I can't imagine that there's anything that would compel her to follow the law.

Kim Davis did ask for the governor's help, though. She asked that he give her a waiver from having to issue marriage licenses in the hope it would stop legal actions. The governor replied that would require a change in state law from the Kentucky Congress but added that he wasn't going to be wasting state funds by calling in a special session to resolve one clerk's problem.
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos