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AI121
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Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:02 pm

In Hungary refugee man throws wife and little kid onto train track. Starts yelling as if someone is hurting them. Everything happened in front of the camera.

Here's the video

We are all aware of migrants seeking new homes in European countries, most favorably Germany! There has been a lot of protests at the Budapest station in Hungary because they all want to cross in to Germany. It is hard to argue against helping them but videos like above makes you wonder how genuine their stories actually are that we see in the media. Some of these migrants are not even from Syria and could just be using the Syrian crisis to cross in to Germany for economical purposes.

Here's the article in BBC with conveniently trimmed parts so the push isn't there and the blurb mentions police "clashed" with them.

Reuters published a picture of the incident with the following comment: "Hungarian policemen detain migrants on the tracks as they wanted to run away at the railway station in the town of Bicske." Here's the Article

Austrian Newspaper with fact twisting screen shots

Classic case of Media manufacturing the stories again to get more clicks/viewers.

There are more videos like the one above where these migrants are just acting in public to appear helpless. Here's one of them.

Seems like Hungarian police and government has a tough job these days. No matter what they do, media will just portray them bad. As far as calling them racists neo-facist Government

[Edited 2015-09-03 12:25:06]
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Aesma
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:20 pm

The part about the Hungarian government is true and not linked with the migrant crisis, it was also the case before.
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OA260
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting AI121 (Thread starter):
Starts yelling as if someone is hurting them.

I saw this live on Sky News. To be honest I have some sympathy. Not with the media who are making millions out of this situation but that guy was probably stressed and flipped. When you think of the journey they have had and being homeless and a young Family to support maybe he was just at the end. He didnt want to go to the camp rightly or wrongly. Other refugees report leaving the camps because they were not given any food or water. So thats another reason that needs addressed.

On the flip side its a very hard time for Hungary. Up until now I feel the Hungarian authorities have been quite restrained but of course the cameras and the worlds eyes are on them so they would be.

Their leader did indeed say this though :

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban Says Migrant Crisis Is Germany’s Problem

“The problem is not European, it’s German. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither Slovakia, Poland or Estonia,” Mr. Orban said after talks with European Parliament President Martin Schulz. “All of them would like to go to Germany.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrants...rain-station-in-hungary-1441268482
 
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eurowings
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:47 pm

It does seem that Hungary is portrayed very negatively in the media at the moment. The UK media seem happy to portray them as bad guys but ignores the fact that displaced persons at Calais desperate to reach the UK are not permitted to proceed further either. It seems very different when these people want to reach Germany vs people wanting to reach the UK. Those at Calais don't want to be registered in France nor do those transiting Hungary, with Hungary being in the worse position due to the sheer volume of people. If conditions at camps in Hungary are not good, then that is a separate issue.

Yes, I do have empathy for genuine refugees, and I don't blame them for wanting to reach certain EU countries. However EU Law doesn't permit refugees to choose which country they wish to present themselves to. A solution here is for willing EU countries to support those peripheral countries such as Hungary, Greece and Italy by directly transferring them from camps and other accommodation in these countries. I guess that is what is proposed with the quota system.

[Edited 2015-09-03 14:48:34]

[Edited 2015-09-03 14:52:00]
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AI121
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm

Quote:
Yes, I do have empathy for genuine refugees, and I don't blame them for wanting to reach certain EU countries. However EU Law doesn't permit refugees to choose which country they wish to present themselves to. A solution here is for willing EU countries to support those peripheral countries such as Hungary, Greece and Italy by directly transferring them from camps and other accommodation in these countries. I guess that is what is proposed with the quota system.

Exactly, when you're seeking asylum to escape war-zone you can't window shop for countries. Sense of entitlement is high among these migrants. There's videos of them refusing food and water in Hungary camps and protesting to go to Germany. I like Briton's idea to get refuges directly from refuge camps in Syria. At least that will ensure that they're accepting people that actually need asylum, not the economic migrants.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting AI121 (Thread starter):
Classic case of Media manufacturing the stories again to get more clicks/viewers.

Reuters and BBC have a certain notoriety in this regard, don't they?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
“The problem is not European, it’s German. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither Slovakia, Poland or Estonia,” Mr. Orban said after talks with European Parliament President Martin Schulz. “All of them would like to go to Germany.”

Well, Germany made it a German problem by unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement and declaring that Syrians will be automatically granted asylum. Now, everyone from Lahore to Lagos is a "Syrian refugee".
What happend to German, almost pedantic insistence on doing everything by the book we have seen during the Greek fiasco? In this case we see policy driven by - I suspect - emotions, political correctness indoctrinaton and Schuldkomplex which incentivise even more immigration
 
AI121
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 5):


Well, Germany made it a German problem by unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement and declaring that Syrians will be automatically granted asylum. Now, everyone from Lahore to Lagos is a "Syrian refugee".
What happend to German, almost pedantic insistence on doing everything by the book we have seen during the Greek fiasco? In this case we see policy driven by - I suspect - emotions, political correctness indoctrinaton and Schuldkomplex which incentivise even more immigration


They made it German problem, but now politically forcing other European countries to help out. Merkel warns Schengen could be at risk. So it has come to blackmailing other countries now, take refuges or else there will be no Schengen. What did Merkel expect by making such statements that they will accept everyone?

Somebody needs to tell this self entitled idiots that throwing free food and clean water they are getting from infidels on train tracks is not ok. Being a refuge they can't window shop for countries. They all think that Germany is a fairy tale land with free BMWs and Mansions.

KR Bicske, Hungary - train station. Food and water support rejected by refugees
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NoUFO
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting AI121 (Reply 6):

This just screams cluelessness.

There is no way to send failed asylum seekers back into war torn countries like Syria. UNHCR rules still apply. It is therefore the right thing to free capacities at immigration offices and grant Syrians residence permit for the time being.

> ... forcing other European countries to help out.
> What did Merkel expect by making such statements that they will accept everyone?

Merkel cannot force governments of countries other than Germany to do anything.
It is not about accepting *everyone*. It is about doing what is neccessary and to remember that not only the U.S. has "founding ideals" rooted in humanity.
Please learn to differentiate!
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Braybuddy
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:45 pm

Given that most of the refugees claim to be fleeing IS, and IS is part-funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE, why is this considered Europe's problem? Funny that there only seems to be a flow towards the west. No refugees seem to be heading north or east, to Russia or China, two other wealthy countries who could easily take their fair share of refugees.

Europe cannot allow this uncontrolled migration to continue. A line has to be drawn . . . and quickly.
 
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winterlight
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 8):
Given that most of the refugees claim to be fleeing IS

Why don't the US offer to take any? They created ISIS and continue to bomb Syrian infrastructure.
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OA260
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:30 pm

Ireland has said it will take more but many people say they are under pressure from certain areas of the EU. They may end up having to take in up to 5000. The Irish were once refugees themselves so its an uncomfortable position to deny the same aid.


'People should not be afraid of migrant influx' - Higgins

President Higgins told RTÉ News at One the EU has also failed in not having being able to agree an adequate figure, with an implementable regime, raising the issue of a voluntary or compulsory compliance.

He said EU countries are going to have to talk about the number of refugees they are accepting, saying it is more likely two to three times the figure that was originally suggested to them.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0904/725569-ireland-refugees/
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
The Irish were once refugees themselves so its an uncomfortable position to deny the same aid.

I would say the Irish were more economic migrants than refugees. My great great grandfather was one, he had the good sense to emigrate to New Zealand.

That's like saying the 120,000 thousand young Swedes in Norway are refugees, which in a way they are, they can't get jobs in Sweden due to the govt letting in so many migrants. As a Swede said to me on Saturday night, immigrants are prepared to work longer hours, for less money in worse conditions than a Swede will, so they come to Norway and take work from young Norwegians.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:17 pm

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02c_1441365239

Another clip that the mainstream media won't show you.

Here in Finland most internet newspapers prohibit comments on articles regarding the crisis while allowing them on other topics. Today I read in the news how a Swedish minister compared Finnish children that were sent to Sweden during WW2 to Syrian / African refugees, most of whom are strong young men in their 20's... Unbelievable BS!

Oh well, when Europe faces a wave of terrorism and social problems never seen in our history since WW2 all those people know they can only blame themselves. Too bad it's generally lower and middle class that gets affected by increasing crime and violence the worst, not the irresponsible elite. Though of course there's a collective responsibility too, European voters are at fault too.

I hope they won't open a refugee center in my city, apart from few jobs funded by tax payers they bring only issues.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
I would say the Irish were more economic migrants than refugees.

It depends how far back you go .


Comparing Irish emigration and today’s refugee crisis

Why do we feel entitled to travel the world while Ireland closes its borders to others?

The images that link today’s refugees with the desperate Irish emigrants of the 1840s are powerful, but we don’t need to go back hundreds of years to find parallels.
The hand of a drowning Irish refugee reaching towards America in the 1840s, set next to the hand of a modern-day Syrian, stretching towards Europe as its owner disappears below water. A Middle Eastern mother, with her children, superimposed among the emaciated figures of the famine memorial on Custom House Quay.
No doubt you’ve seen these images, and others like them. They’re timely and powerful reminders of the hypocrisy of the Irish people who, not all that long ago, sought international refuge as they fled famine and oppression, now turning their backs on the world’s most desperate people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-s...d-today-s-refugee-crisis-1.2339342


Its a conversation being had here however.
 
KLMA330
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:24 pm

Whatever happened to staying and fighting for your country at all costs?
why leave? Fight and die if you have to.
They are playing the West. And te West is eating it up.
IS declared months ago they will be sending hundreds of thousands of migrants to Europe with the intent of waging psychological warfare on European nations.
If you think all these people are coming to Europe because they are looking for a better life
And will be assimilating to European culture once there, you’re very wrong.
This is going to be a mess that will plague Europe for decades to come, and the pessimist in me
Worries that things will never again be the same for the Continent.
I would have liked to see these refugees try this [email protected] 100 years ago, and how Europe would have reacted then.
We are nothing but a bunch of pushovers that fall victim to propaganda pictures while missing the whole story behind
The picture cause everyone is too busy to sit down and read and make educated thoughts and decisions.
Europe is toast.
Why not go to Dubai? Or Qatar? Or Saudi?
How many migrants have they taken in? wonder how guilty they feel about the current state of affairs.
There’s so much more than meets the eye here. Beware my European friends. Your native lands are at risk.

And yes, many will call me a racist and a bigot and heartless and so on.
Be that as it may. The facts speak for themselves.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):

Indeed. While Saudi-Arabia & Qatar of course aren't known as particularly human rights friendly countries I think there's definitely also another reason why they don't do anything to help fixing these crisis or at least offering a safe place to stay for refugees. These crisis will significantly grow the European Muslim population, and for these countries that hate all other religions than their own that's obviously a good thing.

""We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe - without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

"I want to make myself understood: if one threatens [Libya], if one seeks to destabilize [Libya], there will be chaos, Bin Laden, armed factions. That is what will happen. You will have immigration, thousands of people will invade Europe from Libya. And there will no longer be anyone to stop them."

- Muammar Al Gaddafi

I think he was right, even if decades is quite a bit too optimistic. How interesting that as he predicted his own collapse has allowed a huge amount of refugees to enter Europe through Libya.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:49 pm

The migrant crisis is like a leaking tap, at the moment we have the paper towels out are mopping it up, what we really need to do is replace the washer and fix the leak.
 
777way
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:24 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 15):
Indeed. While Saudi-Arabia & Qatar of course aren't known as particularly human rights friendly countries I think there's definitely also another reason why they don't do anything to help fixing these crisis or at least offering a safe place to stay for refugees. These crisis will significantly grow the European Muslim population, and for these countries that hate all other religions than their own that's obviously a good thing.

Unagi! as david schwimmer from an episode of friends would have said while pointing to his head.
 
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Dano1977
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:30 am

A guy knocks on your door and asks - you give him food and shelter until he can make his own way. He then tells his mates that there is this really nice guy on a nice Island that will help - you then get 5, 10, 15, 20 people knock on your door. Now you are full - your resources are stretched and your own family are suffering as a result. At what stage does saying No become nasty?


Under EU Asylum laws the UK has no responsibility at all for these migrants. None. The very fact that we are helping demonstrates that we are not a 'nasty' nation?!


The UK has given £920million to aid Syrian refugees. This is more than Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, Hungary, Austria and Poland combined. Only the USA has given more...

Just today the NHS has cancelled 23 life extending cancer drugs because of cost...


Yes, the pictures shown of that little boy on the beach was heart breaking, and i'll bet even the most cold hearted person wouldn't be moved by it. But where was the moral outrage earlier?.

Hundreds of boats have sank in the Med and thousands have died, I didn't see the press get on their high horse for those poor people.

Objective reporting, especially on the TV media, has been thrown out of the window, to be replaced by New Age emoting and political posturing on behalf of the ‘Let Them All In’ and ‘We’re All To Blame’ Brigade.

the shocking death of a child should never be exploited just because media tarts and ‘liberal’ luvvies can feel good about themselves.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 9):
Why don't the US offer to take any? They created ISIS and continue to bomb Syrian infrastructure.

Surely you jest. You folks deal with it. I myself am sure glad of the Atlantic Ocean being between them and us. We are dealing with immigration issues now from people who do not want to kill us, cut our heads off, and send us back to the middle ages. They just want to earn a living and improve their lives, not destroy our culture.


I have to wonder how many trained ISIS agents are flowing towards you people? Surely you cannot be that naïve to think these people will assimilate into the Western culture. They will destroy it, they have tried in the past and are now flowing into Europe once again to try to accomplish what was fought off by people of courage many years ago.


This does not seem to be what is happening now for sure. For Europe to give in, to welcome them by the millions will spell the end of your cultures in the future. Obviously they will out populate you, as they have been doing for years in Europe. I can just bet that you will not see them attempt to storm Russia, they know where the easy targets are, and you folks are showing them the way.


A tide of humanity, who in the future will show you a different face as recent events have shown. Wise up, or perish. I personally think we in the US have learned a lesson from past errors in judgement when it comes to certain cultures, religions and how we let them in and how it has affected us. I do not think any politician here would dare suggest letting more potential terrorists in as immigrants.

[Edited 2015-09-04 18:19:51]

[Edited 2015-09-04 18:20:34]
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tommy1808
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I personally think we in the US have learned a lesson from past errors in judgement

Like lessons learned in the 30s I presume?

If their had been Internet 70 years ago, I assume the discussions to let Jews in or not would have been much the same as todays.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
They just want to earn a living and improve their lives, not destroy our culture.

Ah, good old prejudices. Even the toddlers are already evil and want to destroy our culture. Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them, right?
I wonder when the first claims they kill babies and drink their blood come up.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I do not think any politician here would dare suggest letting more potential terrorists in as immigrants.


It is just other people's lives, right? Let ISIS behead, mame, rape, enslave or do whatever they want with the 50 million people of Iraq and Syria just as long not a single potential terrorists comes into my country!

Probably they should just call their ships "St. Louis" and see if they get send back to be murdered, again. History repeating.

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seb146
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:16 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
“The problem is not European, it’s German. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither Slovakia, Poland or Estonia,”

I would love to stay in Estonia.

Part of the problem is the media. Remember when American media was up in arms because Obama refused to talk about "Islamic terrorism" but, instead, called it "terrorism"? Little things like that. It has been so ingrained in Americans, for sure, that Muslims have a terrorist connection. Americans can not ever sympathize with Palestinians because they are perceived to be Muslim. May people fleeing their own counties are leaving, not because they want to live off the government, but because they are tired of being shot at and bombed and persecuted by factions within their own country. They want to live and work and love and worship and laugh their own peaceful way. They are tired of "do things our way or you will be savagely and brutally be murdered in the name of the religion we demand you live by!"
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tommy1808
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:07 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Remember when American media was up in arms because Obama refused to talk about "Islamic terrorism" but, instead, called it "terrorism"? Little things like that. It has been so ingrained in Americans, for sure, that Muslims have a terrorist connection

way before that, and not just in the US. How often did we hear "Bosnien Muslims" when yogo broke up? How often did we hear "Serbian Christians" or "Croat Christians"? I can't recall hearing the latter two even once.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:55 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
May people fleeing their own counties are leaving, not because they want to live off the government, but because they are tired of being shot at and bombed and persecuted by factions within their own country.

I see, that's why they are cherrypicking two or three countries where the asylum benefits are most generous...
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:22 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 18):
A guy knocks on your door and asks - you give him food and shelter until he can make his own way. He then tells his mates that there is this really nice guy on a nice Island that will help - you then get 5, 10, 15, 20 people knock on your door. Now you are full - your resources are stretched and your own family are suffering as a result. At what stage does saying No become nasty?

You can see the results of this in Sweden today. The Swedish govt have allowed so many immigrants in that younger Swedes are leaving by the thousands every week. There are no jobs, no housing and increasingly young about to enter the workforce Swedes see no future in Sweden, there are over 120,000 young Swedes in Norway and it's growing.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
not because they want to live off the government, but because they are tired of being shot at and bombed and persecuted by factions within their own country. They want to live and work and love and worship and laugh their own peaceful way.

They need to fight for this. Europe had it's revolutions, the people overthrew monarchy's, the church and the landed nobility, they fought for their freedoms and won, it would appear to me that Europeans are made of sterner stuff than Arabs.
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
I would love to stay in Estonia.

I guess the issue is that in some of these new member states they are very different in terms of culture than traditionally Western European older members. Some of these countries are not used to this kind of immigration like the UK,Germany,Austria etc.. There is a huge backlash against it and many are quite racist as we have seen. The Syrian refugees and others find it easier to settle/get work/protection etc... where members of their community already exist. When you hear countries such as Slovakia,Hungary saying they dont want any Muslims then I guess you cant blame the refugees for not wanting to settle there. An interview with a Syrian refugee on TV last night said they dont want to say in Turkey either because they get beaten up and arrested without cause and they cant get proper employment. Obviously that is another thread but after hearing from Turkish friends who are not biased I would believe it.

Hungary lost the battle anyway last night as roads and motorways filled with refugees who walked towards the Austrian border. Some collapsed at the side of the road with exhaustion. It then changed rapidly with Hungary realising they cant stop them and to stop another humanitarian crisis and bad press they got buses to take them to the border with Austria.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 25):
Some of these countries are not used to this kind of immigration like the UK,Germany,Austria etc.

Why do you think they should emulate Western Europe's "stellar success" with multiculturalist immigration and integration policies?
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
Ah, good old prejudices. Even the toddlers are already evil and want to destroy our culture. Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them, right?

Most immigrants are young men between ages 15 and 30, very few are toddlers. Integrating someone who has already adopted very different cultural and religious values in his/her home country is a lot more difficult than integrating a child.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:19 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 26):
Why do you think they should emulate Western Europe's "stellar success" with multiculturalist immigration and integration policies?

Well they signed up to the EU and part of that is its laws and rules on human rights/refugees etc... If they dont like it and want to have no Muslims then maybe they need to leave the EU ? On the flip side why should the EU pump money into countries that think its ok to let others to take refugees and themselves none?

If they want ethnically clean countries then maybe they joined the wrong club ?
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:03 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 28):
Well they signed up to the EU and part of that is its laws and rules on human rights/refugees etc... If they dont like it and want to have no Muslims then maybe they need to leave the EU ? On the flip side why should the EU pump money into countries that think its ok to let others to take refugees and themselves none?

If they want ethnically clean countries then maybe they joined the wrong club ?

Originally EU's rules said that refugees are handles by whatever country they first arrive in the EU zone. But as usual EU is willing to break against its own rules just to keep this whole pile of junk together for few more years.

But yes, I agree that every sane country out there should leave the EU ASAP. EU's liberal immigration policies are a recipe for disaster, I don't want to get blown up by an ISIS guy just because some clowns in Brussels have unrealistic ideas of what multiculturalism truly is and how immigration and integration really work.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:44 pm

Reason the Syrian boy drowned - why/how this happened is explained by their relative in Canada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

it seems that the father was already refused asylum in Canada but he insisted trying to go there again.

 Wow!  

Not saying this is true as I am not a personal witness to this whole story and I don't know the family in person.
Believing everything that the media are reporting on this "refugees" crisis is a whole different story.

I have witnessed my share of them living nearby the Italian border and being a frequent visitor to Ventimiglia.

[Edited 2015-09-05 06:48:45]
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Aesma
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
I would have liked to see these refugees try this [email protected] 100 years ago, and how Europe would have reacted then.

100 years ago thousands upon thousands of Armenians emigrated to France. Many Italians, Portuguese, too, for decades. My Italian family emigrated to France in the 1950's.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Surely you jest. You folks deal with it.

I wonder who created the mess in Iraq ? Who is besties with Saudi Arabia ?

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
Whatever happened to staying and fighting for your country at all costs?
why leave? Fight and die if you have to.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
They need to fight for this. Europe had it's revolutions, the people overthrew monarchy's, the church and the landed nobility, they fought for their freedoms and won, it would appear to me that Europeans are made of sterner stuff than Arabs.

Yes Europe had its revolutions, but they didn't happen in countries that had been invaded by foreigners. And they succeeded either because the rulers gave up or fled, while the armies took the people's side. In Iraq the army has been dismantled by idiot Americans, in Syria the army is loyal to the dictator.
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 31):
100 years ago thousands upon thousands of Armenians emigrated to France. Many Italians, Portuguese, too, for decades. My Italian family emigrated to France in the 1950's.

Back then they weren't give free unconditional housing, food and money though. What makes the difference between immigration waves of the past and this current one is the social welfare system. Before you either adapted to your new home country's society, found work and survived or didn't adapt and died from hunger. Now the welfare breaks the whole thing, there's not enough of an incentive for refugees to learn their host country's culture, customs and language. Obviously the lack of labour heavy jobs that requite no education doesn't help either.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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seb146
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:50 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
the asylum benefits are most generous...

And, from what I understand, jobs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
A332DTW
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Part of the problem is the media. Remember when American media was up in arms because Obama refused to talk about "Islamic terrorism" but, instead, called it "terrorism"? Little things like that. It has been so ingrained in Americans, for sure, that Muslims have a terrorist connection. Americans can not ever sympathize with Palestinians because they are perceived to be Muslim.

You hit the nail on the head.

An Islamic organization in a suburb here in Detroit requested permits from the city to construct a mosque on vacant land. Soon after we had protesters with signs telling these people to go back to where they came from, and one man speaking at a city hall meeting concerned that these "terrorists" will store bombs and weapons in the mosque... which he actually called a "terrorist headquarters". Fortunately sane and reasonable people outnumber the ignorant and bigoted, much like on here.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:48 pm

I definitely think Media coverage is slanted. The focus is on the humanitarian aspect.

Instead of blasting a lowly border guard though, why are they not questioning the foreign policy and national governments that lead to this crisis? Why not the pressure on high government officials advocating toppling Ghadaffi and Assad instead? The border guard is a nobody.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 1):
The part about the Hungarian government

France was THE major power advocating toppling Gaddafi and Assad. I'd dump all these muslims refugees on your doorstep.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 8):
Europe cannot allow this uncontrolled migration to continue. A line has to be drawn . . . and quickly.

Agreed. The silence on the immigration side in media is appalling. If you think these people are going back, you are seriously, seriously, mistaken.
 
AR385
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:41 pm

The other day I saw a commercial on some Euro channel I have where the government of Denmark is paying for Danish couples to take a vacation. Apparently Danish couples have more sex on vacation. Sex in Europe is important apparently, and a serious concern for various governments. Non country in Western Europe has a sustainable birth rate (many have negative ones). The population is shrinking and Europeans simply do not want to have children. Europe is headed the way Japan did in the 90s.

So what happened to Japan? They went from the second biggest economy, to the fourth, in 20 years.There are entire fields empty of crops and many industrial parks abandoned. It´s a sad sight. And Europe is going to have that exact same sight starting 2030 I believe (It maybe 2050, but I´m positive I heard 2030)

You may think this may be of no consequence. Fewer people, it´s nicer, less crowds, the environment will be saved yada yada yada. Right? But among many issues with this, there is one major we can discuss. It´s going to be OLD people. Costly old people with hip replacements, Alzheimer´s and other chronic, expensive, diseases. They will have some of the longest life expectancies in the world too. They will also need pensions. Their pensions.

So. Who is going to pay for, among others, European social security nets? There will be a significant shortage of young people to work and pay taxes. And health systems is just one example I cited.

And no amount of sex starting now will deliver nowhere near the amount of babies needed. The only answer is immigration. And unfortunately, just as these poor, wretched people

Quoting AI121 (Reply 4):
can't window shop for countries.

Europe will not be able to window shop for immigrants. The skilled, well paid young professionals, such as doctors, engineers, arquitects, economists, et al, are not going to simply pack and leave for Europe if they have a well set life in their own countries. Sure, some will go, but nowhere in the amounts that Europe needs. So in the medium term, Europe, and many here, have it backwards. It´s not these refugees that need Europe. It´s Europe who needs them.

The CURRENT situation is a crisis for sure. But the problem is not the refugees. The problem is that Europe does not have a good system of integrating immigrants in its culture. They just let them be. Europe needs a PAN-EUROPEAN system that all the states in the EU agree on and implement. So now and in the future immigrants are fully assimilated into the society they arrive. It may not be PC, but an obligation to learn and USE the language, study the history, the culture, and everything needed to develop in the immigrant a sense of belonging, and love for its new nation. Severe penalties, including deportation, should be in the cards for immigrants who refuse to undergo that assimilation. Now don´t get me wrong. I´m not a cyborg. I´m not advocating for immigrants to forget their origins. But to acquire a sense of nationality for their new country while remembering the traditions of the other one. Much like it happens, generally, in the US.

I do not buy for a minute, and frankly find disgusting, the comments below of member AI121.

Quoting AI121 (Reply 4):
Sense of entitlement is high among these migrants.
Quoting AI121 (Reply 4):
not the economic migrants.
Quoting AI121 (Reply 6):
Somebody needs to tell this self entitled idiots that throwing free food and clean water they are getting from infidels on train tracks is not ok

These people, AI121, are fleeing hunger, disease, death, military strife, persecution and other niceties, that you know, generate refugees. Sure, there may be a few smart alecks who are taking the advantage to move easily to another place mainly for economic reasons. But I doubt fathers and mothers would take their children on such perilous journeys just because they want more money. Most are facing dire situations at home. Life or death. Death in many ways. Day after day, after day.

And why do you blame THEM for wanting to go to the country that is most generous and offers better opportunities? Why do YOU think it´s THEIR fault. I mean, as a parent, I would be stupid to stay in Romania or Greece if I can go to Germany/UK/France. Why, for God´s sake would they head to Spain, which has an outrageous unemployment rate? It may not be right. But it´s the logical thing.

The problem is Europe. Again. A system must be agreed in the EU, a NEW one, as one already semi-exists but does not work. One that would make the benefits refugees/migrants receive all the very same across Europe (adjusted for different costs of living) But you have to understand that that will only solve part of the problem. People will always flock to the country with better opportunities. Such is life.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 8):
Europe cannot allow this uncontrolled migration to continue. A line has to be drawn . . . and quickly.

I agree. Such a crisis cannot be allowed to continue.

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
Whatever happened to staying and fighting for your country at all costs?
Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
They are playing the West. And te West is eating it up.
Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
I would have liked to see these refugees try this [email protected] 100 years ago, and how Europe would have reacted then.

Pure BS. And 100 years ago, these refugees did not exist. Europe had not yet gone and F***** up the Middle East for its own advantage.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
May people fleeing their own counties are leaving, not because they want to live off the government, but because they are tired of being shot at and bombed and persecuted by factions within their own country. They want to live and work and love and worship and laugh their own peaceful way.

Exactly.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
I see, that's why they are cherrypicking two or three countries where the asylum benefits are most generous...

Perfectly logical, don´t you think? But that is Europe´s fault, no the refugees´s

Quoting OA260 (Reply 25):
There is a huge backlash against it and many are quite racist as we have seen.

Hungary has always been known for being pretty xenophobic. And that is a euphemism.
 
AR385
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 34):
Fortunately sane and reasonable people outnumber the ignorant and bigoted, much like on here.

These days I´m not so sure...
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
uoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I personally think we in the US have learned a lesson from past errors in judgement

Like lessons learned in the 30s I presume?

If their had been Internet 70 years ago, I assume the discussions to let Jews in or not would have been much the same as todays.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
They just want to earn a living and improve their lives, not destroy our culture.

Ah, good old prejudices. Even the toddlers are already evil and want to destroy our culture. Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them, right?
I wonder when the first claims they kill babies and drink their blood come up.




Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I do not think any politician here would dare suggest letting more potential terrorists in as immigrants.


It is just other people's lives, right? Let ISIS behead, mame, rape, enslave or do whatever they want with the 50 million people of Iraq and Syria just as long not a single potential terrorists comes into my country!

Probably they should just call their ships "St. Louis" and see if they get send back to be murdered, again. History repeating.

Best regards
Thomas

I am puzzled how anyone from certain parts of Europe can preach to us in the US about immigration, death tolls, starting wars, concentration camps and much more. Our totals of death pale in comparison to Europes. Our refusal in WW 2 to take certain people in was deplorable, yet in totals it was miniscule to the overall totals of death and destruction and horror and the price we all paid to end it. The Allied Forces mostly paid the price for something they did not start. Europes politics caused it, along with Dictators, and madmen and political, racial, and religious hatred.

We have paid dearly in life and treasure over the years to protect our way of life here because of madmen over there and elsewhere. We are still paying the price today, and the bleeding hearts of Europe for these people, will cause the next generations to suffer as they have caused past generations. These immigrants are seething with and will themselves encounter what has caused so much horror and death in Europe and the world, political, racial, ethnic and religious hatred. We have enough over here, so keep it over there where it will once again and is rearing its ugly head. You are preaching to to the choir as the saying goes.I and many others have heard it all before from Europe and elsewhere.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 36):
So. Who is going to pay for, among others, European social security nets? There will be a significant shortage of young people to work and pay taxes. And health systems is just one example I cited.

We must take into account the amount of jobs being lost due to automation. How far automation will eventually progress is of course unknown, but we may be facing as big of a change as the industrial revolution. Getting more working age people to Europe doesn't help if automation destroys most of the jobs they would need and doesn't bring enough new jobs in return.

Back in the era of industrial revolution things were more clear. When machines very much reduced the amount of workforce needed in agriculture new labour heavy factories, and eventually new city service jobs in fast growing industrial cities offered new jobs for the unemployed. Now we are at point where machines are taking over more and more manufacturing and service jobs without creating anywhere near as many new jobs.

In the future we'll either have a system where the wealth generated by production is distributed among the population that is largely unemployed in that word's traditional sense, or alternatively we have an undemocratic, probably militaristic class society ruled by a small owning class elite and a lot of poor and miserable people.

For last 20 years there has been a lot of talk about how a severe lack of workforce will hit Finland after large generations born after the war retire. Guess what, now they are retired and unemployment remains high. Automation and China syndrome have changed things in ways that people 10 or 20 years ago didn't expect.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 36):
The CURRENT situation is a crisis for sure. But the problem is not the refugees. The problem is that Europe does not have a good system of integrating immigrants in its culture. They just let them be. Europe needs a PAN-EUROPEAN system that all the states in the EU agree on and implement. So now and in the future immigrants are fully assimilated into the society they arrive. It may not be PC, but an obligation to learn and USE the language, study the history, the culture, and everything needed to develop in the immigrant a sense of belonging, and love for its new nation. Severe penalties, including deportation, should be in the cards for immigrants who refuse to undergo that assimilation. Now don´t get me wrong. I´m not a cyborg. I´m not advocating for immigrants to forget their origins. But to acquire a sense of nationality for their new country while remembering the traditions of the other one. Much like it happens, generally, in the US.

Exactly. The lack of integration is my main concern. At least here in Finland the discussion regarding immigration is pretty horrible, people fight over whether immigration is bad or not and then forget the integration part completely. The lefties in particular seem to think creating a successful multicultural society requires nothing more than opening borders to anyone who wants to enter this country, as if cultural, linguistic and religious barriers didn't exist.

Everywhere in the planet basic human nature is obviously the same, however the environment we grow in, the culture, traditions, language, religion, all those very much affect the way we look at the world. When two people with very different views and values meet a conflict is inevitable, and when it comes to immigration the only successful integration policy can help overcoming that. A successful form of multiculturalism certainly involves an amount of assimilation especially on immigrant's part, otherwise you'll get something like South African apartheid where different ethnic groups stay apart from each other, a divided society.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tommy1808
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 38):
Our refusal in WW 2 to take certain people in was deplorable,

q.e.d.
Yet, you expect us to repeat those mistakes. I was brought up with two mantras, "never again" and "no pasaran fascistas", on top of the idea of universal human rights. I am exactly the German the world wanted to have after WWII. And finally understand what it feels like to be proud of my countrymen:



But I understand... love your neighbors, as long he is Christian. Or at least no Muslim.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PanHAM
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 36):
And no amount of sex starting now will deliver nowhere near the amount of babies needed. The only answer is immigration. And unfortunately, just as these poor, wretched people

Sounds all very nice, but we have to take care that These People coming in now arrive in our Society and not again in existing or new parallel societies.

Whoever comes here has to fully accept the constitution/bns that the constitution stands above everything, including the Quran. Women are equal, the Little sister has the same rights that the Little brother has and if she wants to mess around, be that so. There is not family honor, there are individual rights whoch apply to anyone.

The laws are imperial and not the local mediator from the next mosque. If that is not acceptable, These persons must realize that they are in the wrong country Nobody is kept here by all means, we are deocratic and not the DDR.

I would prefer that we get an Immigration law similar to the Camadian or copy the Canadian straight away. That would prevent the flooding we experience currently and get the Immigration that will be positively adding to the mutual wealth and enable Germany to Keep up the socal Standards. The Money we are spending now on uncontrolled Immigration should better be invested in infrastructure, roads and bridges are crumbling away becaiuse there are too miuch consumption expenses and too Little Investments. .

If nothing happens PDQ there will be a bitter awakening..
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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pu
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 5):
almost pedantic

almost?

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7):
It is not about accepting *everyone*.

Wrong.

You're obviously having a disconnect between your idyllic view of who is immigrating and the reality of who is immigrating.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7):
Merkel cannot force governments of countries other than Germany to do anything.

hmmm....I think a few Greeks might disagree.

Quoting winterlight (Reply 9):
Why don't the US offer to take any? They created ISIS

Sure, we'll also get Spain to take the Mexican immigrants since Spaniards created Mexico.

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 14):
Fight and die if you have to.

Easy to say, harder to do. BUT I basically agree with you. Lots of peoples prefer to put up with sh^t government instead of fighting for something else....like all the former Warsaw pact countries in Europe, for instance.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
Jews

Somehow a German lecturing America about Jews, human rights and so forth doesn't quite seem persuasive.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 29):
But as usual EU is willing to break against its own rules just to keep this whole pile of junk together for few more years.

That is funny, thanks. You're kind of right. The EU rules are great idealistic goals, bent or ignored as necessary.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 31):
I wonder who created the mess in Iraq ? Who is besties with Saudi Arabia ?

You might also ask who created Iraq? Or Saudi Arabia?

....isn't all of this ultimately a result of the awkward governments and lines on maps imposed on people by European powers?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 38):
I am puzzled how anyone from certain parts of Europe can preach to us in the US about immigration, death tolls, starting wars, concentration camps and much more

Well, some Europeans are worse than others. You have, however, pinpointed the underlying reason for Germany's stance on this immigration crisis - they think it proves their rehabilitation from that guy with the mustache.




Pu.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 40):
Yet, you expect us to repeat those mistakes. I was brought up with two mantras, "never again" and "no pasaran fascistas", on top of the idea of universal human rights. I am exactly the German the world wanted to have after WWII. And finally understand what it feels like to be proud of my countrymen:
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 40):
But I understand... love your neighbors, as long he is Christian. Or at least no Muslim.

Don't you realize that a large portion of world's population doesn't share your views on universal human rights. If they did the human rights situation of sexual and religious minorities wouldn't be so abysmal in the MAJORITY of Islamic world in particular, and in some Christian majority states of Africa.

So, tell me, should we tolerate the intolerant? Should we tolerate somebody who is okay with stoning of homosexuals, atheists and those who abandon Islam?

And now, of course not all Muslims are like that, but it's fallacy to think that it's just a small minority who thinks so.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg/2000px-LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg.png

https://sojo.net/sites/default/files/blog/thumbRNS-PEW-HOSTILITY011414a.jpg

These maps wouldn't look like that if the majority of Muslims had same ideas of universal human rights as we do. I don't mind the minority of secular Muslims who don't judge others based on such backward traditions, however the rest should have no place in Europe. Same applies to intolerant Christians, Hindus and such too of course.

When in Rome do as the Romans do. I don't mind lack of human rights in Islamic world as long as people who come here are ready to adopt our ideals of human rights, something that doesn't seem to be happening in most cases.

[Edited 2015-09-06 01:08:44]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 36):
So. Who is going to pay for, among others, European social security nets? There will be a significant shortage of young people to work and pay taxes. And health systems is just one example I cited.

And no amount of sex starting now will deliver nowhere near the amount of babies needed. The only answer is immigration.

And there are also plenty of people stating a declining birthrate is not a problem, you just have to rethink the problem. Mass immigration will eventually lead to the same problem in another few generations time.

People are living lomger so make them work longer, I expect the retirement age when I'm ready to stop work will have increased from Norway's current 67 to 70 or higher.

The birth rate in Norway is one of the highest in Europe, there are plenty of counties in Norway were the birthrate is well above replacement level, children should not be a financial burden, make it easier and less expensive to have them and make women feel like they won't be giving up their careers and more babies will be the result.

Quoting pu (Reply 42):

Somehow a German lecturing America about Jews, human rights and so forth doesn't quite seem persuasive.

You really went there, I don't often see eye to eye with Tommy but in no way should German's feel any guilt or accept any blame for what happened in ages past. The past is past, learn from it, don't repeat it.
 
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pu
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:25 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 44):
You really went there, I don't often see eye to eye with Tommy but in no way should German's feel any guilt or accept any blame for what happened in ages past. The past is past, learn from it, don't repeat it.

What a crock of sh&t. Read post 40 = he admits exactly the point I am making.

Note how in post 20 the mistakes of 1930s America are accused towards an American....but we can't remind the Germans of their own history in the 1930s???

This German adoption of uber-humane feeling towards the weak/non-Christian/poor etc. is all because of an ingrained desperation to prove to the world the modern Germany is the opposite of you know who.





Pu

[Edited 2015-09-06 01:37:07]
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 39):
We must take into account the amount of jobs being lost due to automation. How far automation will eventually progress is of course unknown, but we may be facing as big of a change as the industrial revolution. Getting more working age people to Europe doesn't help if automation destroys most of the jobs they would need and doesn't bring enough new jobs in return.

It is an established fact that the current European welfare system, or at least the system of those countries who do have one, is largely unsustainable in the long run. Rather than address the problem, however, you're advocating that nothing be done because possibly, perhaps, maybe, automation will solve it. Like automation solved Japan's workforce participation rate. Or didn't.

The real world deals in facts. Incomplete facts as may be, but facts, not hopes and dreams and suppositions.

it is irresponsible at best to do nothing because some vague, unproven, un-quantifiable factor might perhaps change these facts in a totally unknown way within a totally undefined time-frame. When will this automation save the welfare system? In 10 years? 20? 50? How much worse will the problem be if automation doesn't come fast enough? Or in smaller dose than needed?

Frankly this reads like someone trying to hide their distaste for the current situation behind some technological mumbo jumbo.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 43):
I don't mind the minority of secular Muslims

This says so much in so few words.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 46):
It is an established fact that the current European welfare system, or at least the system of those countries who do have one, is largely unsustainable in the long run. Rather than address the problem, however, you're advocating that nothing be done because possibly, perhaps, maybe, automation will solve it. Like automation solved Japan's workforce participation rate. Or didn't.

Taking more refugees who end up staying unemployed for years and thus stressing the welfare system further certainly doesn't help the situation one bit. I don't want to destroy the welfare system we kept building for decades just because some people in Middle East and North Africa are incapable of living in peace.

What exactly is your idea of "addressing the problem"? Taking more refugees who end up unemployed due to lack of available jobs, something that will only become worse due to automation? How does that help the situation?

I believe right wing parties, such as National Coalition in Finland, are promoting liberal immigration policy simply to increase the stress on our welfare system. Then they can claim it's unsustainable, destroy it and proceed in creating a class society divided between rich and the poor. As a leftist I oppose that, I believe that every member of this society should be given equal chances to become anything through state funded education, healthcare and social safety net.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 46):
This says so much in so few words.

It's a plain fact most Muslims living on this planet have very different values from what native populations here in the west have, in particular when it comes to ideas of universal human rights and freedoms. Even if saying it aloud isn't politically correct it's still absolutely true.

Religions are no different from other ideologies in my mind, criticism and mocking of Islam, Christianity and so on should be seen as just as acceptable as criticism and mockery of communism, national socialism, fascism and so on.

[Edited 2015-09-06 02:24:18]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:04 am

On the island of Lesbos

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=374_1441514182

all the way to Calais.

 Wow!   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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pvjin
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RE: Europe's Migrant Crisis And Media's Propaganda

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:13 am

Those poor Greek islanders who have to cope with this mess, not good for tourism business either. Only thing those rioting thugs deserve is a trip back to Syria on board a cargo ship.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr

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