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Zkpilot
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Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 am

Surprised this isn't making headlines.

ISIS is claiming that they have at least 4000 fighters in Europe already having arrived disguised as refugee's.
This isn't hard to imagine when you see that 90% of Syrian refugee's arriving into Europe are men.
Where are all the women and children? One child drowns and the media focuses on that yet 90% are grown men!

http://www.ibtimes.com/refugee-crisi...mists-exploit-refugee-flow-2085787
http://www.rt.com/news/314788-hungary-migrants-isis-terrorists/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-psychological-weapon-bombed.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...DS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees
http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/isis-smug...refugee-crisis-to-infiltrate-west/

Those last 2 links are very tabloid in style admittedly but most mainstream media seem to be ignoring this.

Thoughts?

[Edited 2015-09-09 19:26:51]
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WarRI1
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:35 am

Europe opens the door, and look what comes through. ISIS would be stupid to not do this. They are not stupid, but Europe is. Obama wants to let more in now, supposedly only 5000 more. That is 5000 too many. Humanitarian aid for terrorists, how stupid is that?
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airportugal310
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:44 am

Real shocker there...this shouldn't surprise anyone but TA DAH!! It somehow does...
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YVRLTN
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:29 am

That is what Harper is saying, but everyone is beating up on him because the little boy who drowned was destined for Canada and his family had an immigration application turned down.

What is too bad is that the genuine ones who need real help may not get it with this attitude. So to avoid that all will have to be welcomed.
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kngkyle
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:36 am

I can think of some pretty good reasons why ISIS would want us to think this, regardless of whether it's true or not. So I'll take their claim with a giant grain of salt. Not that I don't think some might sympathize with ISIS, but 4,000? Nope, maybe like 50. Far fewer than already live throughout Europe.

[Edited 2015-09-09 21:43:56]
 
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seb146
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:33 am

And what happens when those indoctrinated see that the West is not out to kill them? That the West is not out to stop all religion ever and that they (Muslims) are not persecuted in the West? What then? Will they just do the tea party thing and plug their ears and say "you hate us! I can't hear you so it must be true you hate us!"
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PanHAM
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:14 am

What a suprise. REven if that number is Propaganda and they are only 400 or whatever. Europe and especially Germany has opened the flood gates and we are flooded, not only with nice and neat genuine refuguees but with criminal hordes as well.

What can Europe expect from People that do not follow the rules? Whjat can we expect from People that force their way through Europe instead of accepting the rules and letting themselves registered. What ecan we expect when lunatics help them to sneak into countries without rehistration, without background checks?

It is obviously easier for an IS criminal to sneak into Europe than for an old Lady to get on a flight.

And once we have this backwards religion indoctrinated morons killing People on the streets no one will accept responsibilty again.
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seb146
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:21 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
And once we have this backwards religion indoctrinated morons killing People on the streets no one will accept responsibilty again.

This is what I am saying: Too many people are convinced that the one side of the story is the only side of the story that is true. When they see reality, they either have a total melt down and assimilate, or they shut down and stay silent. There are those rare few who refuse to believe their own eyes and still kill, but, more often than not, they chill. I am sure MI-6 and Interpol are watching all refugees. They should. There are the rare crazies among them. But, there will be those who say "I just wanted to kill and convert, but these people actually are the opposite of what I was told."
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Kiwirob
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:23 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
And what happens when those indoctrinated see that the West is not out to kill them? That the West is not out to stop all religion ever and that they (Muslims) are not persecuted in the West? What then? Will they just do the tea party thing and plug their ears and say "you hate us! I can't hear you so it must be true you hate us!"

They already know all this, remember thousands of ISIL fighters are European born, they simply don't care. 4000 is a big number, it really doesn't matter if it's only 4 fighters, shit's gonna happen and people will die.
 
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 4):
I can think of some pretty good reasons why ISIS would want us to think this, regardless of whether it's true or not. So I'll take their claim with a giant grain of salt.

  

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
shit's gonna happen and people will die.

Shit's been happening and people dying long before anyone had ever heard of IS / ISIS / ISIL or whatever they're called this week.
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pvjin
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:38 am

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 4):
I can think of some pretty good reasons why ISIS would want us to think this, regardless of whether it's true or not. So I'll take their claim with a giant grain of salt. Not that I don't think some might sympathize with ISIS, but 4,000? Nope, maybe like 50. Far fewer than already live throughout Europe.

From Finland alone over 50 people have left to fight for ISIS.

According to this article there could be 5000 - 6000 Europeans fighting for ISIS:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-over-...isis-other-jihadist-groups-1496058

Then obviously nothing would prevent ISIS from smuggling also their non-European fighters into this continent, so I don't really can think of any reason why they couldn't have indeed smuggled 4000 fighters to Europe.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
And what happens when those indoctrinated see that the West is not out to kill them? That the West is not out to stop all religion ever and that they (Muslims) are not persecuted in the West? What then? Will they just do the tea party thing and plug their ears and say "you hate us! I can't hear you so it must be true you hate us!"

5000-6000 people actually living here hated our way of life so much they decided to join ISIS. The type that joins ISIS doesn't want freedom of religion and democracy, they want a global Islamic caliphate.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:49 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 9):
Shit's been happening and people dying long before anyone had ever heard of IS / ISIS / ISIL or whatever they're called this week.

This is additional on top of all the other shit, it's more crap that we don't need. I don't want to be living in fear of a terrorist attack just because some do gooders felt we needed to save a whole bunch of people who aren't invested enough in their own countries to save them from what's happening.
 
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:13 am

If they got 4000 crossing into Europe with the refugees, then I expect to see a lot more ISIS territories to be lost... Until then... this is just a bluff trying to scare Europe into throwing those refugees back. ISIS would want to see these "traitors" dead... if they couldn't kill them, make the Europeans kill them.

As for Europe... I pray to God that they screen each and everyone of them and anyone who is or was an ISIS member, be thrown to prison, or sent elsewhere... Hey, is Guantanamo still open?    Eh... Guantanamo? Oh that is so ironic...   
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AirPacific747
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:23 am

This is truly a disaster in the making and Europe will be lost forever within this century. I am extremely worried on behalf of al of Europe. This immigration has got to stop completely.
 
Danny
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:30 am

I can't believe how stupid and naive western european politicians are by taking those people.

Obviously ISIS is among them. The would be stupid not to be - it's an ideal moment - no one controls borders and who those people are.
 
LMP737
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:30 am

I have a hard time believing that ISIS in the middle of a war is going to let go 4000 of their fighters.
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Danny
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:34 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16):

I have a hard time believing that ISIS in the middle of a war is going to let go 4000 of their fighters.

They have circa 40-50k fighters with no one actively attacking them. Why not take the chance where you can move terrorists into Europe without any control. Such opportunity might not repeat itself.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 14):

This is truly a disaster in the making and Europe will be lost forever within this century. I am extremely worried on behalf of al of Europe. This immigration has got to stop completely.

Fully agree.



[Edited 2015-09-10 01:35:38]
 
LSZH34
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:21 am

Apparently a terrorist act by a "refugee" is really needed so the EU and the liberals open their eyes. Right-wingers are extremists? They are the ones using their brain, not their heart.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Thread starter):
Surprised this isn't making headlines.

ISIS is claiming that they have at least 4000 fighters in Europe already having arrived disguised as refugee's.
This isn't hard to imagine when you see that 90% of Syrian refugee's arriving into Europe are men.
Where are all the women and children? One child drowns and the media focuses on that yet 90% are grown men!

http://www.ibtimes.com/refugee-crisi...mists-exploit-refugee-flow-2085787
http://www.rt.com/news/314788-hungary-migrants-isis-terrorists/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-psychological-weapon-bombed.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...DS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees
http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/isis-smug...refugee-crisis-to-infiltrate-west/

Those last 2 links are very tabloid in style admittedly but most mainstream media seem to be ignoring this.

Thoughts?

Syrian Islamist rebels - BEFORE AND AFTER

From massacring Syrians to being a refugee in the streets of Europe

http://twitter.com/leithfadel/status/641335783073280000

http://twitter.com/moscow_ghost/status/641559371164594176

http://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/640864393694183424

http://twitter.com/IadArtwork/status/641827596444004352

 Wow!    

A Very powerful image of Syria under Assad compared to the Syria under jihadist rebel control

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUTXTpWwAQEa9s.jpg

Well, you can't say that Europeans didn't ASK FOR THIS.
You get the governments you vote for. It's pretty simple, in the end.

"Europe" will die from apathy, to be replaced by the Caliphate.


 Wow!    

[Edited 2015-09-10 11:53:32]
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LMP737
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 17):
They have circa 40-50k fighters with no one actively attacking them.

I'm sure they are sitting around doing nothing.
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seb146
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 18):
Apparently a terrorist act by a "refugee" is really needed so the EU and the liberals open their eyes. Right-wingers are extremists?

Sounds like a right wing scare tactic to make Europe more xenophobic. How does one not know governments screen every single one of these people and demand their minute-by-minute whereabouts? Some of the comments here and across the internet make it sound like people just let the door open and give refugees the keys to the vaults.

Before the flood of refugees, what has stopped IS from sending fighters to bomb Europe? Both Canada and the United States have stopped people who want to join IS, even before they leave the country.

Are people that willing to be hateful and scared of Islam and foreigners that they will use any language possible to remain isolated?
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LSZH34
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):

Where would Europe be without right-parties? They also have a say and are making valuable points concerning this whole crisis. I'm totally against burning asylum centers or racism or any kind of hate towards these people but maybe people should start using their sanity for once and think about what opportunities and signals they are sending out the the world with all this good-will.

What has stopped IS-Fighters to come to Europe before the flood? Probably because the EU was willing to check these men about their recent whereabouts. Today they just let them pass multiple countries. They don't care and obviously Merkel doesn't care either with her message. With people crossing multiple countries without getting checked of their background sounds like the easiest way nowadays to get illegaly into Europe. I doubt it is NOT suspicious when leaving a stable country like the U.S. or Canada for Syria whereas people from Syria can easily claim they are war refugees.

I do partly agree with you though about the Islamization part. My father is from Tunisia, a muslim. I'm an atheist BTW. I've been there several times and I sometimes have the feeling people here in Europe truly believe all women walk around in burkas and everyone prays 5 times a day and is a hardcore anti-west islamist. This is just NOT true.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
"Europe" will die from apathy, to be replaced by the Caliphate.

Too much champagne today? Plato would have interesting comments about this.
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seb146
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 21):
They don't care and obviously Merkel doesn't care either with her message

Really? So she simply said that all refugees are allowed in with no back ground checks at all? With no tracking of them at all? For the security of her nation and the EU at large? I hardly think that is the case.

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 21):
I do partly agree with you though about the Islamization part.

Having family obsessed with Fox, there are way too many people in this country who believe the only thing all Muslims are about is bringing down Christianity and the West. Anyone who reads a variety of accounts from very different places knows that is simply not true. As an American and a Christian and gay, I am more concerned with the radical Christians in this country than I am with radicals in the Middle East.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 20):

Sounds like a right wing scare tactic to make Europe more xenophobic. How does one not know governments screen every single one of these people and demand their minute-by-minute whereabouts? Some of the comments here and across the internet make it sound like people just let the door open and give refugees the keys to the vaults.


How would they even know how many there are let alone screen them?? There's thousands of them walking along train tracks, coming ashore on boats etc. The EU has no clue as to who 1/2 of them are.
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DocLightning
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
Too many people are convinced that the one side of the story is the only side of the story that is true. When they see reality, they either have a total melt down and assimilate, or they shut down and stay silent.

That may be true for most but not all. We have seen that terrorists do come to the West, live in the West, and then do horrible things. Some are even born and raised here. The Tsarnev brothers come to mind.
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seb146
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:15 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
hat may be true for most but not all. We have seen that terrorists do come to the West, live in the West, and then do horrible things. Some are even born and raised here. The Tsarnev brothers come to mind.

And live in a bubble. Like Sara Palin. Yes, I get that some do stay in that bubble. Immigrants should be kept track of, to some extent. I know that and I get that. The Fox/tea group do not get that. They lump "us" all together.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 24):
How would they even know how many there are let alone screen them?? There's thousands of them walking along train tracks, coming ashore on boats etc. The EU has no clue as to who 1/2 of them are.

I highly doubt that. The way the world is today, I very seriously doubt EU would just let people in willy nilly. I know USA and Canada will NOT just let people in for no reason. Despite what Fox says.
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tommy1808
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:35 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):

Syrian Islamist rebels - BEFORE AND AFTER

I am sure many racist right wing nutjobs and scared chickens are busy trying to find people that look like other people on some pictures they find of extremists.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):

http://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/st...83424

This guy, if properly identified, would be a former FSA fighter. So, in case you don´t know that, if he is that guy, he was fighting against ISIS. Why is he in your list?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
I highly doubt that. The way the world is today, I very seriously doubt EU would just let people in willy nilly. I know USA and Canada will NOT just let people in for no reason. Despite what Fox says.

Got to love the German BND, their commend when asked about those 4000 ISIS terrorists, paraphrasing:

Coming in as a refugee is much to dangerous compared with air travel (ha!), a terrorist would just buy a ticket.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
That is 5000 too many. Humanitarian aid for terrorists, how stupid is that?


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pvjin
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 27):

Even if 0,05% of refugees coming here are ISIS supporters we'll still be in huge trouble.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
Humanitarian aid for terrorists, how stupid is that?

Finland actually pays social welfare to ISIS fighters. According to our laws joining a terrorist organization isn't a valid reason to stop social welfare from flowing in.
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tommy1808
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 28):
Even if 0,05% of refugees coming here are ISIS supporters we'll still be in huge trouble.

Well, when you jump in a river to safe someone from drowning your risk may very well be higher than 1:2000, so I take it you wouldn't do that either?

Best regards
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Danny
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:42 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 28):
Finland actually pays social welfare to ISIS fighters. According to our laws joining a terrorist organization isn't a valid reason to stop social welfare from flowing in.

No wonder they all want to go to Germany, Sweden or Finland. Is about social welfare not escaping war.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:05 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
I very seriously doubt EU would just let people in willy nilly. I know USA and Canada will NOT just let people in for no reason. Despite what Fox says.

What you doubt or what you know is irrelevant. OK, you choose to live in denial because your family "is obsessed with Fox". You tuck Your head in sand to balance it out, i guess. Fair enough, that's your choice. However, your denial changes very little on the fact that at the moment there is basically no protection of EU's external border and there is NO idea who is landing on those shores. One can reasonably assume that whoever is plotting something sinister against Europe would be simply stupid not to take advantage of the window of opportunity they are being offered by clueless Europeans.
If you are silly enough to arrive by plane and alone, you will then stay in the line at any given EU airport waiting for your visa and passport to be checked.
Arrive by the dozens by boat on the shores of Greece or Italy and shout "Germani, Germani" and you will get a free passage accross Europe, no questions asked, no documents needed. That's the reality of the last couple of weeks. Those who try to follow the rules are tarred and feathered by others who decided overnight that rules n longer apply and that their policy will be governed by solely by Schuldkomplex, (post-)colonial guilt trip and bleeding heart emotions.
Europe is sleepwalking into a major disaster.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
I am sure MI-6 and Interpol are watching all refugees. They should.

LOL! You are funny. MI6 doesn't care what's happening on other side of Europe, they have more than a plateful to worry about at home so they do not look caught too much by surprise (again) next time someone on their watch chops or blows people to pieces. There is no "Interpol" police force per se, just as there is no NATO army. If the police of an Interpol member country is told to stand down and look the other way, then there is nothing Interpol can or will do.
How "effective" is intelligence sharing accross EU, when it comes to terrorism, one could see couple days ago with the failed train attack in France.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 29):
Well, when you jump in a river to safe someone from drowning your risk may very well be higher than 1:2000, so I take it you wouldn't do that either?

These refugees need a safe place to stay, nothing more, nothing less. Refugee camps built into stable parts of ME / Africa, funded by European powers would be perfectly adequate for that, much more cost effective than the current model, and they would pose no threat to Europe.
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Dahlgardo
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:26 am

The concept of open borders within EU Schengen has failed completely.
As long as the outer borders cannot be enforced the system collapses and makes us all vulnerable to terrorist infiltration and uncontrollabe immigration.

Schengen is dying
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Kiwirob
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
I very seriously doubt EU would just let people in willy nilly.

Have you not followed any of this in the news, this is exactly what Germany has done, it's given carte blanche approval for all Syrians to come to Germany, they rest of Europe was not consulted.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:11 am

I reckon IS would claim anything was their work if it pushed their cause, as would I expect either side of the refugee debate in Europe to use it as ammunition to fuel debate.

Either way they have to make it a more in-hospitable journey and try and stem the tide. If they don't like it then they shouldn't have tried to bring down a tyrant and then quit halfway through once they got everyone else to do the work for them.

It is getting to the point where the countries like Hungary will shoot first ask questions later at fleeing illegals from police and Med states will start blowing the dinghies and rafts out of the water if they refuse to turn around. (and I wouldn't blame them if they did - it's a threat to their territory) and Hungarian style internment camps everywhere outside Germany where they are stored until they can be air-dropped/shipped back to Syria. I can see this ending in bloodshed even without IS.
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Danny
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 33):
The concept of open borders within EU Schengen has failed completely.

In my opinion Schengen is not a problem. The problem is that we cannot protect the extrernal borders of Schengen.

If we cannot do that we won't be able to guard all internal borders as well. Dropping Schengen would effect your or my travel but not those immigrants crossing illegaly in the forest.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:23 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 31):
Europe is sleepwalking into a major disaster.

Although I'm sure the various EU nations security services are shitting themselve over Germany's stupidity, and they will be the people carrying the can when the bombs and shootings start.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 32):
Refugee camps built into stable parts of ME / Africa, funded by European powers would be perfectly adequate for that, much more cost effective than the current model, and they would pose no threat to Europe.

Saudi Araba has housing for 3 million in Mina, only in use 5 days per year.

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/hajj2010_11_15/h09_25935643.jpg
 
jacobin777
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:54 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
And once we have this backwards religion indoctrinated morons killing People on the streets no one will accept responsibilty again.

Are you calling Islam a "backwards religion"?
"Up the Irons!"
 
tommy1808
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:31 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 32):
These refugees need a safe place to stay, nothing more, nothing less. Refugee camps built into stable parts of ME / Africa

So, you are ok with ISIS terrorists getting into stable parts of ME/Africa and start killing there? How generous of you!

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 38):
Are you calling Islam a "backwards religion"?

I agree, it is redundant. All religions are backwards.

Quoting Danny (Reply 30):
No wonder they all want to go to Germany, Sweden or Finland. Is about social welfare not escaping war.

So, what way do you want it? Are they no refugees because they are rich, they do have cellphones after all, or are they coming for welfare?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:35 am

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 38):
Are you calling Islam a "backwards religion"?

Well it is a pretty backwards way of thinking, no question about that.
 
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Dahlgardo
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:42 am

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 38):

Are you calling Islam a "backwards religion"?

Islamic ideology is certainly not progressive.

Quoting Danny (Reply 36):
In my opinion Schengen is not a problem. The problem is that we cannot protect the extrernal borders of Schengen.

If we cannot do that we won't be able to guard all internal borders as well. Dropping Schengen would effect your or my travel but not those immigrants crossing illegaly in the forest.

I think we agree.
One of the conditions for Schengen to work is that the outer borders are secure.
In todays world this is not realistic, and the consequences are clear today.
As a thought Schengen is a great idea, but in reality it is not realistic.

[Edited 2015-09-11 04:43:14]
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
tommy1808
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:50 am

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 41):

As a thought Schengen is a great idea, but in reality it is not realistic.

In reality the total Schengen Outside Border is a hell lot short than the member states borders combined. However bad Schengens outside borders work, giving the concept up and guarding national borders again can only work worse.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dahlgardo
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 42):
In reality the total Schengen Outside Border is a hell lot short than the member states borders combined. However bad Schengens outside borders work, giving the concept up and guarding national borders again can only work worse.

For some countries that is certainly true.
There is no doubt the situation today highlights that the defence of the (outer) borders require a huge increase in effort and ressources.
The current migration crises is economicly unsustainable for EU (Schengen), not to mention the security risks.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
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Aesma
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 42):
In reality the total Schengen Outside Border is a hell lot short than the member states borders combined. However bad Schengens outside borders work, giving the concept up and guarding national borders again can only work worse.

best regards
Thomas

The Iron Curtain was pretty secure (not 100%), however how many people were guarding it ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:29 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 34):
it's given carte blanche approval for all Syrians to come to Germany

... now everyone from Lahore to Lagos pretends to be "Syrian" with god knows how many counterfeirt passports in circulation. Thanks Angela!

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/a...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11509101

Quoting Danny (Reply 36):
In my opinion Schengen is not a problem.

Once you try to enforce the resettlement quota it will be a major problem. With Schengen in place it will be difficult or even impossible to prevent the migrants from re-migrating to where the social system is easiest to milk.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 38):
Are you calling Islam a "backwards religion"?

It's a "religion of peace". We all know that. It's ironic you are asking such question on September 11, out of all days.
 
Danny
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 39):
So, what way do you want it? Are they no refugees because they are rich, they do have cellphones after all, or are they coming for welfare?

Only a small fraction of them are real war refugees. Most are economic migrants who should be send back where they came from. Accepting them is not a solution as it will only encourage others.

I have no doubts about this - they come not just from from Syria, but also Lebanon, Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, Lybia, Nigeria etc.- potentially millions will follow.

Naturally each country should have the right to make its own decision so if Germany wants to take a million of immigrants then go ahead.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 44):

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 42):
In reality the total Schengen Outside Border is a hell lot short than the member states borders combined. However bad Schengens outside borders work, giving the concept up and guarding national borders again can only work worse.

best regards
Thomas

The Iron Curtain was pretty secure (not 100%), however how many people were guarding it ?

It's more about the measures that were taken. If we start shooting at anyone illegaly crossing the border like it was at Iron Curtain then the immigration will stop immedialy. Do we really want to do this?

[Edited 2015-09-11 05:35:31]
 
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pvjin
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 39):
So, you are ok with ISIS terrorists getting into stable parts of ME/Africa and start killing there? How generous of you!

There would be little point for them to do that as those countries really don't have many westerners in them and committing random terror attacks against Sunni's living in those countries wouldn't really do anything good to their cause. Also, as most nearby countries in ME/AFR are dictatorships that don't have too many human rights activists clowning around local officials could fight against ISIS terrorists much more effectively than we here in the west can. The freedoms we have here in the west make our societies very vulnerable target for violent extremists.

But yes, if I have to choose between someone blowing up stuff in my country and someone blowing up stuff in another country I'll pick the latter option.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Dahlgardo
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 46):
It's more about the measures that were taken. If we start shooting at anyone illegaly crossing the border like it was at Iron Curtain then the immigration will stop immedialy. Do we really want to do this?

If that's what it takes, then yes, otherwise the migration will continue and eventually undermine the economy in EU.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:53 pm

I still don't understand why the EU don't do the same as Australia. We have a continent to the south with a booming population that is set to double to over 2 billion people before 2050. So will the influx of refugees. And that's before taking the Middle East and Central Asia population growths into account. There's no way we can help all the people wanting to come to Europe.

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