Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
B777LRF
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:14 pm

Don't know about you, but to me the '4000 IS fighters have infiltrated Europe' sounds very much like 'Saddam has a nuke, which can be delivered to any European capitol city within 45 minutes'

That's the thing about propaganda, as anyone who's been inflicted by Fox News can attest to; it's hardly ever a reflection of reality.
Signature. You just read one.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12959
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 50):
Don't know about you, but to me the '4000 IS fighters have infiltrated Europe' sounds very much like 'Saddam has a nuke, which can be delivered to any European capitol city within 45 minutes'

It doesn't sound like that at all, Saddam never had the ability to build one or the technology to deliver it, inserting 4000 potential terrorists amoungst the hundreds of thousands of people pooring unclecked into Europe right now is a far more plausable senario than Saddam and nuclear armed ballistic missiles ever were.

It doesn't really matter if it's 4000, 400 or 40, it's still too many.
 
LSZH34
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 45):
It's a "religion of peace". We all know that. It's ironic you are asking such question on September 11, out of all days.

Listen, I totally agree with you about your views on immigration. But it seems like you got brainwashed by islamists. They want to turn the west against normal, secular muslims so organisations like Al-Qaeda and IS gain more support from the locals there. Have you ever been to countries like Tunisia or Syria before the arab spring? These people are not hardcore islamists trying to bomb your house. My family is in Tunisia and they've got to a point where they are afraid to go outside because of some stupid radicals. If you think the locals there are supporting and cheering IS you got a problem. Open your eyes, widen your horizon and don't get offended by quotes from muslim hate preechers because we all know they are delusional. Remember: They want you to hate them.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12314
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 52):
Open your eyes, widen your horizon and don't get offended by quotes from muslim hate preechers because we all know they are delusional. Remember: They want you to hate them.

Exactly. ISIS morons stated to a German journalist who did a piece for CNN months ago the following: 'our dream is to provoke a war with the Americans and fight them here in our lands'. The more people respond to their poking, the more they get what they want. Which begs the question: why the #'&"$ would anyone in the west want to be giving these people what they want?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4783
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 39):
So, you are ok with ISIS terrorists getting into stable parts of ME/Africa and start killing there? How generous of you!

Of course. It's OK if they kill other browns, but god forbid they come into Europe and kill us...

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 41):
Islamic ideology is certainly not progressive.

Neither is Christian ideology.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 45):
It's a "religion of peace". We all know that. It's ironic you are asking such question on September 11, out of all days.

Spare us your fake outrage.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 50):
Don't know about you, but to me the '4000 IS fighters have infiltrated Europe' sounds very much like 'Saddam has a nuke, which can be delivered to any European capitol city within 45 minutes'

Agreed. I'm sure there are some ISIS fighters within the refugees. That was bound to happen, but 4000 is a scare tactic and people are buying right into it.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 53):

  
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 52):
They want to turn the west against normal, secular muslims so organisations like Al-Qaeda and IS gain more support from the locals there.

We have already done that to ourselves. It is the whole reasoning behind why Obama refuses to talk about "Muslim extremists" because he knows good and well that is a scare tactic to get Americans to hate ALL Muslims.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:00 pm

Quoting oa412 (Reply 54):
Of course. It's OK if they kill other browns, but god forbid they come into Europe and kill us...

No it's not okay for ISIS to kill anybody, but realistically speaking we can't do a damn to prevent them from messing around in Middle East. But we can and we should do our best to prevent them from killing people in areas controlled by us.

Quoting oa412 (Reply 54):
Agreed. I'm sure there are some ISIS fighters within the refugees. That was bound to happen, but 4000 is a scare tactic and people are buying right into it.

Just a couple of hundred are enough to cause a huge mess, and that amount is certainly very realistic. Taking in massive amounts of refugees with low chances of ever integrating into Europe has no economic or social benefits whatsoever, thus side effects like this are unacceptable.

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 52):
Listen, I totally agree with you about your views on immigration. But it seems like you got brainwashed by islamists. They want to turn the west against normal, secular muslims so organisations like Al-Qaeda and IS gain more support from the locals there.

But just how secular an ordinary / "normal" Muslim is? What is normal by standards of many Islamic countries is seen very conservative and restrictive by standards of liberal western societies. When people from conservative Muslim countries move to Europe issues will arise if they don't integrate well and adopt some western ideas of universal human rights, freedom of speech and equality.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:39 pm

All you guys who are losing your humanism out of fear for terrorism have to admit you are the ones that are already defeated by them.

If having terrorism is the price to pay for freedom and solidarity, then I'll pay that price. To a certain extent, of course, but today the number of people injured or killed by terrorism in Europe probably is far lower than the number of people injured or killed while going to the pub.

The West is partly responsible for the mess the ME is in. Then we have to take our responsability and do what we can to help those whose lives have been destroyed. If we cannot take that responsability and accept the consequenses of our actions, then we what have we become?
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting Jalap (Reply 57):
All you guys who are losing your humanism out of fear for terrorism have to admit you are the ones that are already defeated by them.

If having terrorism is the price to pay for freedom and solidarity, then I'll pay that price. To a certain extent, of course, but today the number of people injured or killed by terrorism in Europe probably is far lower than the number of people injured or killed while going to the pub.

Objectively speaking lack of border control leads to both more terrorism and less freedom at the same time. Due to fear of backslash from Islamic radicals people in Europe are increasingly afraid to publicly criticize Islam and talk about human rights issues among our Islamic communities.

So, basically you want to give away your freedoms, money and safety so that in return you can feel humane and a false sense of one way "solidarity".

Quoting Jalap (Reply 57):
The West is partly responsible for the mess the ME is in. Then we have to take our responsability and do what we can to help those whose lives have been destroyed. If we cannot take that responsability and accept the consequenses of our actions, then we what have we become?

Yes, those Finnish colonialists did horrible things in Africa and Middle East, and now in 90's and 2000's we have made the issues only worse by invading Middle Eastern countries with our huge military machine. We are clearly responsible for the mess, thank fictional god there's the EU trying to impose obligatory refugee quotas upon us too.

Seriously, I don't mind if Belgians, Germans, French, British and so on destroy their countries to repay their colonial crimes, but please don't do it as long as the EU and schengen area exist.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6232
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 52):
If you think the locals there are supporting and cheering IS you got a problem

Islam has got far more problems than just IS.

Quoting oa412 (Reply 54):
Spare us your fake outrage.

Spare me your patronizing.

Quoting oa412 (Reply 54):
It's OK if they kill other browns, but god forbid they come into Europe and kill us...

Exactly. They have to sort it out themselves whose flavor of islam is the right one. Not my fault and not my problem that a cartoon in a provincial Danish newspaper causes more outrage than hundreds of dead when muslims butcher other muslims.


Quoting pvjin (Reply 58):
Seriously, I don't mind if Belgians, Germans, French, British and so on destroy their countries to repay their colonial crimes, but please don't do it as long as the EU and schengen area exist.

  
 
LSZH34
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 56):
But just how secular an ordinary / "normal" Muslim is? What is normal by standards of many Islamic countries is seen very conservative and restrictive by standards of liberal western societies. When people from conservative Muslim countries move to Europe issues will arise if they don't integrate well and adopt some western ideas of universal human rights, freedom of speech and equality.

I don't deny that, you are right and the longer this immigration is going to last the more we see these problems. It just bothers me that nowadays every muslim got that label of a potential terrorist.
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 58):
Objectively speaking lack of border control leads to both more terrorism and less freedom at the same time. Due to fear of backslash from Islamic radicals people in Europe are increasingly afraid to publicly criticize Islam and talk about human rights issues among our Islamic communities.

So, basically you want to give away your freedoms, money and safety so that in return you can feel humane and a false sense of one way "solidarity".

For every European country, internal extremism or terrorism is a greater threat than muslim terrorism. Despite the large muslim communities we've had for decades. Compare your sentiments about Breivik with your sentiments for the Charlie Hebdo killers. There is a few muslim freaks and people blame Islam in general. There is far right freak and people go "meh, just a freak". Well I do not blame far right for what Breivik did, and I do not blame muslims for what their freaks do.

I will not give away my freedom or sense of safety for Breivik, or for the Charlie Hebdo killers. And if I do, I know they have won. (I had to add "sense of" to safety, because I doubt there are many safer places to live in than the EU, today and in the foreseeable future).

As for giving up money, well, if the West was a bit less greedy, I think quite some mess could have been avoided. But that's the point about responsability.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12314
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:16 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 58):
Seriously, I don't mind if Belgians, Germans, French, British and so on destroy their countries to repay their colonial crimes, but please don't do it as long as the EU and schengen area exist.

Sounds like you should be directing your attention to the grey-haired suit crowd sipping sparkling wine in Brussels instead of wayward migrants.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
Really? So she simply said that all refugees are allowed in with no back ground checks at all? With no tracking of them at all? For the security of her nation and the EU at large? I hardly think that is the case.

Correct. They are being let in without proper processing. And of course once in Germany, they can surface anywhere in the Schengen region.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obscure-...rant-march-from-hungary-1441901563

On Tuesday, Aug. 25, at 1:30 p.m., a government agency in the southern German city of Nuremberg posted a sentence on Twitter that would change the lives of tens of thousands of desperate people.

“We are at present largely no longer enforcing Dublin procedures for Syrian citizens,” said the note, posted on the account of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees.

The bureaucratic tweet was the first confirmation of an online rumor that had begun to spread a day earlier: With more Syrian refugees arriving via Hungary and other European Union member states, Germany was using its prerogative to stop enforcing the bloc’s asylum rules that require all migrants to be processed in the first EU country they enter.

Within hours, the news contained in the obscure German-language message spread, amplified by news media and word-of-mouth.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 63):
Within hours, the news contained in the obscure German-language message spread, amplified by news media and word-of-mouth.

So they are still checking people, just not up to the stringent standards as before. Because hungry and sick people from a war torn country are kind of important. Sounds mighty Christian, if you ask me.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:59 am

Quoting Jalap (Reply 61):
For every European country, internal extremism or terrorism is a greater threat than muslim terrorism. Despite the large muslim communities we've had for decades. Compare your sentiments about Breivik with your sentiments for the Charlie Hebdo killers. There is a few muslim freaks and people blame Islam in general. There is far right freak and people go "meh, just a freak". Well I do not blame far right for what Breivik did, and I do not blame muslims for what their freaks do.

I don't think that's true, just a couple of weeks ago a Muslim with an AK was very, very close from committing a massacre in a train. The number of Islamic extremists seems to be much higher than the number of far right extremists out there, let's not forget that thousands of European Muslims have left to fight for ISIS.

Also, what worries me is the fact that there are entire nations with governments that support radical Wahhabi / Salafist Islam. KSA and Qatar are such nations, and due to their massive wealth their influence in Europe is growing. They fund mosques and as a result often get to choose what kind of Islam is taught in them, and that's not good at all.

To put it simply, it's not just the terrorists who are an issue, even the peaceful radicals / conservative (by our standards) Muslims are a long term threat to freedom and democracy in Europe. When their numbers grow they are going to gain more and more political power, and what you see in KSA is pretty much their ideal society.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 62):
Sounds like you should be directing your attention to the grey-haired suit crowd sipping sparkling wine in Brussels instead of wayward migrants.

Sure, of course in the end all of the problems we are having with immigration are a fault of our gutless loser politicians, and that of the people who vote them. But what can I European voters are irrational and continue voting them? Not much really, I can just raise awareness on internet forums and wait for the imminent wave of Islamic terrorism that might wake the sheeple up.

Perhaps in the mean time I should try playing Eurojackpot. If I won a million euros I would immediately move to some Caribbean or Pacific island and stop instantly caring of what happens to Europe.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6232
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:19 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 63):

So they are still checking people, just not up to the stringent standards as before.

What makes you arrive to that conclusion? In reality they do not even know their real nationality (everyone is suddenly Syrian for obvious reasons).
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Thread starter):
SIS is claiming that they have at least 4000 fighters

There are certainly some. You see plenty of young men among the refugees. Another huge blunder.

The other problem is that some of these Syrians will be treated poorly, not get jobs, become disaffected youth and then turn toward extremism. If you let in 1 million this year (as seems likely), some are bound to either be terrorists or destined to become one. The same could be said for any group of migrants but the rate of those likely to be extremists will certainly be higher. This is probably the highest risk group in the world at the moment.
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:22 pm

Just keep families, send back the single men.
 
User avatar
kngkyle
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:33 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:25 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 67):
The other problem is that some of these Syrians will be treated poorly, not get jobs, become disaffected youth and then turn toward extremism. If you let in 1 million this year (as seems likely), some are bound to either be terrorists or destined to become one. The same could be said for any group of migrants but the rate of those likely to be extremists will certainly be higher. This is probably the highest risk group in the world at the moment.

So stopping them, holding them in detainment camps, and sending them back to Syria is not going to cause that to happen?
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6232
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 67):
this is probably the highest risk group in the world at the moment.

My bet would be on those Somalis and Eritreans who think that money grow on trees in Europe and that they are handing out cars and houses in Europe. They are up for a great disappontment and desillusion.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 69):
So stopping them, holding them in detainment camps, and sending them back to Syria is not going to cause that to happen?

At least then they are going to get radicalized outside our borders.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 70):
My bet would be on those Somalis and Eritreans who think that money grow on trees in Europe and that they are handing out cars and houses in Europe. They are up for a great disappontment and desillusion.

That would be my bet too. At least most Syrians got some kind of education. Somalia has been a huge mess for 25 years now, there'a an entire generation that hasn't got any real education at all. Needless to say they have generally integrated to Finland very poorly. I doubt Eritrea is too much better, even if it has some kind of a functioning government.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:52 pm

Why not just take in the fair, good looking Syrians, including single men.
 
LSZH34
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 72):

Leave racism out of this discussion. It's not about black, white, tall, small people. This topic is about how to deal with the endless mass immigration and the problems that come with it.
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:12 pm

You're deluding youself if this thread is not concerned with racism and bigotry.
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 74):
You're deluding youself if this thread is not concerned with racism and bigotry.

That's a bold statement, which you should back up with evidence.
FWIW religion is still not a race, hence any expressed concerns about mass muslim immigration into secular western democracies, is a cultural concern and not a race concern.

There is plenty of statistical evidence about the challenges of integrating muslim immigrants into western secular democracies. Fx. is the unemployment and crime rates for muslim immigrants *significantly* higher than other groups here in Denmark.

So the concerns about more "non-western" immigration is based mostly on empirical evidence and not prejudice.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:03 pm

Religious bigotry? anti-Islam.
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 76):
Religious bigotry? anti-Islam.

I'm glad you're backing down from the racist accusations.

Sure, many are concerned about islamic ideology, and IMHO often with good reason.
I am, for one, very concerned about the doctrins of islamic ideology and their impact in the world today.
That's not the same as saying all muslims are fanatics, far from, but there's still good reasons to be concerned about the ideas of Islam.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
User avatar
cougar15
Posts: 1442
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:10 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 9):
Shit's been happening and people dying long before anyone had ever heard of IS / ISIS / ISIL or whatever they're called this week.

Yep, and the UK of course have really been doing their bit for their (albight small) interest in european unity by being as ´open minded´as they are in dealing with this! Subsidies are loved, some common EU laws, morals & Standards (only when it suits one....) that the EU envisioned only if in your interest - think about it objectively ! " God save the queen"! And interesting to see a little isle shiksing itself when it comes to take on some responsibilty for refugees from Areas they have - well, - not been ´inactive in´ in recent years! Plant the seed, then chop the plant you grew....

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 34):
Have you not followed any of this in the news, this is exactly what Germany has done, it's given carte blanche approval for all Syrians to come to Germany, they rest of Europe was not consulted.

Your ussual rant & rave from the right....... funny that you judge a Country ´on top´ and about 20000 miles away from the most beatiful country of sheep!

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 51):
It doesn't really matter if it's 4000, 400 or 40, it's still too many.

As above, what is it - jeleausy that Germany is working their butts off to help genuine refugees (and yes, even here laws are changing, econimic refugees will very soon be no more...) from a wartorn Country!
Bloody assamed for all our compasion and my flag above Rob! Shame on all us stupied Gerries running to the trainstations with Food & Waterbottles each eve to welcome these poor souls! And do forgive my Irony in these extreme times for many thousands of needy People!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 75):
That's a bold statement, which you should back up with evidence.
FWIW religion is still not a race,

There are no fewer than six different posters in this thread who are anti Islam and all Muslims are terrorist and all Syrians are Muslim types. Go back through and read some of the posts. I don't want to name names because I don't want to be flagged for bullying. I have had that happen before....

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 77):
I am, for one, very concerned about the doctrins of islamic ideology and their impact in the world today.

Which branch of Islam? I lived next to a Muslim neighborhood in PDX. We never had one hint of problem with them at all. I made deliveries to that same neighborhood. Some houses, I had to deal with only males. Usually a preteen boy. They understood that, in American culture, adults deal with adults and I understand that in some Islamic cultures any male ranks above any female. We all met in the middle.

There are some sects of Islam that I do not agree with. Just like there are sects of Christianity that I do not agree with. But, to say that ALL Muslims are evil or that ALL Christians are holy is just rubbish.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 77):
That's not the same as saying all muslims are fanatics, far from, but there's still good reasons to be concerned about the ideas of Islam.

So, no one can have ideas? We have been having similar debates in this country over who can sign government issued marriage contracts and certain health care procedures.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 79):

There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons to worry:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...it-Syrian-refugees-in-Germany.html

Salafism / Wahhabism isn't just an irrelevant small sect, it's the main religious ideology of Saudi-Arabia. KSA (and some rich Saudi individuals) with all their money and might do their best to spread this very radical form of Islam globally for example by funding mosques and training imams, who will then proceed by spreading this ideology of hate among ordinary Muslims. ISIS, Al Qaida, Taliban, all of them are ideologically more or less Salafist.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 79):
So, no one can have ideas? We have been having similar debates in this country over who can sign government issued marriage contracts and certain health care procedures.

If your ideas of good legal system include severe inequality between men and women, harsh punishments for "crimes" that don't harm anyone (such as homosexuality, extramarital relationships and so on), then you definitely should have no place in western world.

Similarly how European free democracies defended their freedom against Nazis we must defend them against any other forms of hate preachers and invaders.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12959
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 78):
Your ussual rant & rave from the right....... funny that you judge a Country ´on top´ and about 20000 miles away from the most beatiful country of sheep!

I live in Norway, don't let the flag fool you.

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 78):
Shame on all us stupied Gerries running to the trainstations with Food & Waterbottles each eve to welcome these poor souls!

Yes I agree with this completely, your lot have screwed us all.
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 79):
There are no fewer than six different posters in this thread who are anti Islam and all Muslims are terrorist and all Syrians are Muslim types. Go back through and read some of the posts. I don't want to name names because I don't want to be flagged for bullying. I have had that happen before....

Raising concerns over muslim immigration is not "anti-muslim" or "anti-islam".
Fact of the matter is, that muslim immigration until now have had a significant negative economic impact here in Denmark.
There are differences between different groups, but as an example, the unemployment rate in 2013 among Syrians that arrived here up till 2009 is around 80-85%. This is only a little better than Somalis which has the highest unemployment rate.

Apart from that we have plenty of immigrant ghettos, a high crime rate, and a very high unemployment rate among muslim immigrants (and especially among young muslim men) and their decendents. This is just neutral statistics, and not prejudices. I'm sad it is that way, but it explains why many are concerned about the current influx of immigrants.
The experience tells that integrating these people is difficult, and I'm affriad this is not only a Danish phenomenon.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 79):
So, no one can have ideas?

I'm not sure who you are arguing with here.
Everybody is entitled to thier ideas, but some we need to worry about.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 82):
I'm not sure who you are arguing with here.
Everybody is entitled to thier ideas, but some we need to worry about.

Yeah, I mean, when I go to tulevaisuus.org (which funnily enough means future.org), the main Finnish Muslim forum, I see supposedly sane adults worrying about whether they can use their clothes after some dog hair ended up on them. Obviously these same adults believe that an invisible creature called Allah or God will punish them if they eat pork, have an alcoholic drink or keep dogs, rodents and such as pets, they discuss how to fully clean an apartment after a dog has visited it.

Then there's music. Many of them seem to think instrumental and non-religious music is haram.

And then people tell me I shouldn't worry about this kind of madness? I would rather have myself beheaded than live under their ideal society.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
CplKlinger
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:05 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:10 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 83):
Yeah, I mean, when I go to tulevaisuus.org (which funnily enough means future.org), the main Finnish Muslim forum, I see supposedly sane adults worrying about whether they can use their clothes after some dog hair ended up on them. Obviously these same adults believe that an invisible creature called Allah or God will punish them if they eat pork, have an alcoholic drink or keep dogs, rodents and such as pets, they discuss how to fully clean an apartment after a dog has visited it.

Funny how everyone wants to poke fun at the Muslims for their "odd ideologies" when the Jews hold the same things, to a varying degree. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still bigotry.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:20 pm

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 84):
Funny how everyone wants to poke fun at the Muslims for their "odd ideologies" when the Jews hold the same things, to a varying degree. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still bigotry.

I don't see masses of Jewish refugees flooding into my country. Also, I've never heard of Jews who would think instrumental music or keeping dogs as pets is wrong. Judaism also allows drinking alcohol which to me is a huge plus, I honestly believe Middle East would be a lot more peaceful place if most people there got drunk once in a while.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:40 pm

Critical comments are flooding the Facebook account of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the citizens react increasingly indignant, almost angry at the refugee policy.

Here are a few comments which represent the overwhelming opinion of the users:

"You will bring Germany to the brink of civil war".

"Mrs Merkel, it is better they withdraw. You are no longer acceptable for us".

"Mrs Merkel will go down as the chancellor in the history that has inflicted upon the land the most damage. We are overrun by refugees because of her irresponsible concessions".

"Mrs Merkel you have the future of the Germans in the last few days, sentenced to death."

http://www.facebook.com/AngelaMerkel?fref=ts

http://translate.google.com/


 Wow!   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
CplKlinger
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:05 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 85):
I don't see masses of Jewish refugees flooding into my country.

Probably because you took care of that back in the '40s, right? Jews can't eat pork, find certain animals unclean, keep kosher to varying degrees and so on. Hell, orthodox Jews won't sit next to women they aren't married to on a plane (much to the chagrin of others on Anet) and won't use an elevator on the Sabbath unless they have a shabbos goy to press the button.

Look, I can understand the concerns of all of these people flooding into Europe. But this blanket racism and bigotry has been seen before in Europe, and that didn't end well for anyone involved.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 87):
Probably because you took care of that back in the '40s, right? Jews can't eat pork, find certain animals unclean, keep kosher to varying degrees and so on. Hell, orthodox Jews won't sit next to women they aren't married to on a plane (much to the chagrin of others on Anet) and won't use an elevator on the Sabbath unless they have a shabbos goy to press the button.

Based on my understanding an average Jew is quite a lot more liberal than an average Muslim, otherwise Israel wouldn't be the most liberal and gay friendly country in Middle East. Also, in the 40's Finland was one of those few countries under German influence that didn't give up a significant amount of its Jewish minority. Apparently we only gave them 8 Jewish refugees, which of course is still 8 too many.

Curiously enough hundreds of Jewish soldiers fought in Finnish army alongside with Germans.

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 87):
Look, I can understand the concerns of all of these people flooding into Europe. But this blanket racism and bigotry has been seen before in Europe, and that didn't end well for anyone involved.

I don't think there's much racism going on, just legitimate concern. European mass immigration to the new world didn't end up too well for the Native Americans either.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 82):
Everybody is entitled to thier ideas, but some we need to worry about.

I get that, but people need to stop lumping everyone in the same group.

Yes, there are radicals and extremists. We are dealing with that here with Christians. But, to call the peaceful ones "extremists" and "radicals" just feeds into this blind hatred of an entire religion.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 82):
Raising concerns over muslim immigration is not "anti-muslim" or "anti-islam".

Yes, it is. Like I said, too many people are painting with such a broad brush.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 80):
who will then proceed by spreading this ideology of hate among ordinary Muslims. ISIS, Al Qaida, Taliban, all of them are ideologically more or less Salafist.

So, we know where the radicals are and are funded by. Why, then, did our last president get to first base with their leader? Also, many, many Muslims reject these extreme and radical forms of Islam. Just because they have not taken up arms against them does not in any way mean they are for it.

I suspect that you are a hard core Mormon. How did I come to that conclusion? Well, you and all of your sect did not speak out against Mormon fighting against the US Military for a homeland. Therefore, you are Mormon. It is the same logic and reasoning.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:28 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 85):
Also, I've never heard of Jews who would think instrumental music or keeping dogs as pets is wrong

The Israeli minister of sports wants to ban all football on Saturday. That's pretty much on par with keeping dogs as pets.

If religious people would stop imposing their interpretation of their religion on others, then the world would very soon be a far better place.
Every religion has that kind fanatics, that's not an Islam monopoly. If we count in what happened in history, Christians probably have had by far the most of that kind of fanatics in power. If you want to leave Europe, you best avoid all Christian countries as well. And countries too close to sea level, just to bring in a far greater threat we're facing the coming century.
 
LSZH34
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:45 pm

Munich is overran, people now have to sleep on the streets, border control reinstalled in Germany. Wait, who said Germany can handle this immigration? One single week and they are already in panic mode. Well done Merkel!
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 85):
Quoting pvjin (Reply 85):
Also, I've never heard of Jews who would think instrumental music or keeping dogs as pets is wrong.

Its also considered unclean in hinduism, saw a movie or drama in which a pious hindu woman had her room washed seven times or more after a puppy entered it.

Many people in Pakistan keep dogs, I have a few, infact you will be baffled by the fancy breeds living in run down supposedly backward and conservative areas of cities, especially Lahore. I have practicing relatives who have dogs living outside some others keep them indoors, but then they have a seprate room for prayers, mine are living indoors as its too hot outside for them, I personally think no pet should be kept inside a house because they are all unhygenic in someway,

In Islam its ok to keep cats, but I have seen pet cats wander out and exploring all kinds of filthy places including garbage bins, mine too got bored of being home and is out mostly, comes home for a short while in a f messed state then goes out again after snacking and a short nap.

As for music depends on the type, music that inspires you in a good way in fine, classical music is harmless, but there is music that can move one in the wrong way, depends on the mindset how one sees things.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13210
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:30 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 59):
Exactly. They have to sort it out themselves whose flavor of islam is the right one. Not my fault and not my problem that a cartoon in a provincial Danish newspaper causes more outrage than hundreds of dead when muslims butcher other muslims.

If you cared about "truth" to the tiniest bit you would know that it wasn´t the cartoons that caused the outrage, but the way it was edited, for example by adding fake pictures (Men with pigs nose e.g.) and claims like those where government published.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 55):

We have already done that to ourselves. It is the whole reasoning behind why Obama refuses to talk about "Muslim extremists" because he knows good and well that is a scare tactic to get Americans to hate ALL Muslims.

With his term coming to an end, he can just start calling them "religious extremists".

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 86):
Critical comments are flooding the Facebook account of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the citizens react increasingly indignant, almost angry at the refugee policy.

Well, the right wing, the fascists and the remaining Nazi´s freaking love Facebook:

Caption on top reads "how Facebook works".

Not that difficult to see who´s brainchilds are posting those christian messages of kindness:


It is especially hilarious when the people posting it are immigrants themselves.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:31 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 93):
Well, the right wing, the fascists and the remaining Nazi´s freaking love Facebook:

I suppose by "Nazis" you mean native ethnic Germans like this guy?

https://youtu.be/riQh4Qpvxm4?t=33

[Edited 2015-09-14 04:31:32]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13210
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:07 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 94):
I suppose by "Nazis" you mean native ethnic Germans like this guy?

you know that guy is a socialist, right?
But I do mean the Nazis the guy is talking about.

And btw, the English subtitles are let's say, very free translations. And of course the video us out of its sociocultural context, you can not understand it w/o knowing that Nazis here often claim we don't need immigration. But they don't produce enough offspring to sustain the population either. That's how the Nazis come in this video, which is an invitation to a counter-protest against a nazi rally.

Again you swallowed propaganda hook and sinker.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 95):

Well, you really don't need large scale immigration. Automation is going to destroy a lot of jobs in nearby future, and secondly from an environmental perspective it's only good if the population levels in rich consumerist western societies finally start to drop.

Here in Finland we should now be in middle of a huge lack of workforce right now due to retirement of the large generations born after the war, just as I was taught at school in mid 2000's. Yet unemployment is at its all time high. The need for a large scale mass immigration to Europe is a myth.

[Edited 2015-09-14 05:26:15]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13210
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
The need for a large scale mass immigration to Europe is a myth.

Funny, the German population would be millions smaller and older on average without immigration. There are 15 million people with a immigrant background currently in Germany, that is 19% of the population. Only one third of them were born here. In my city, Hanover, it is almost one out of three.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 97):
Funny, the German population would be millions smaller and older on average without immigration. There are 15 million people with a immigrant background currently in Germany, that is 19% of the population. Only one third of them were born here. In my city, Hanover, it is almost one out of three.

So? More is not always better. For example refugees from Somalia have an unemployment rate of 60-70% or so in Finland, which means their total impact on our economy is very much negative.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Isis Claims 4000 Fighters In EU Mixed In Refugees

Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 97):
Funny, the German population would be millions smaller and older on average without immigration. There are 15 million people with a immigrant background currently in Germany, that is 19% of the population. Only one third of them were born here. In my city, Hanover, it is almost one out of three.

Nobody is arguing against all immigration. If people are allowed in gradually, and are assimilated into the German culture, learn to speak German and fit into German society, then there is no problem. But when you have a flood of people they will inevitably gather in ghettos, have trouble assimilating, and end up being a major problem for the host society rather than a benefit. It has happened in many countries - this is nothing new. You seem to be arguing "but that won't happen this time", but there is no empirical or logical data to back it up.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: casinterest, emperortk, FGITD, flipdewaf, N583JB, N867DA and 77 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos