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Mortyman
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U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:59 am

U.S. Military to Reopen Base in Iceland?

"The U.S. government has expressed its opinion to Icelandic authorities that considering increased Russian aggression there may be reason to reopen the U.S. Navy base in Iceland; the U.S. Armed Forces operated the Naval Air Station in Keflavík as a NATO base from 1951 to 2006. Its location was considered to be of great importance during the Cold War."

http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/0...11/us-military-reopen-base-iceland

Strategically, it's not a bad idea I think ...
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:09 am

I actually think it's quite intriguing that the U.S. (I'm a U.S. Citizen btw, so no hard feelings) continually finds a "reason" or someone to blame in order to continue popping up bases all over the world. But when another major world power tries to do the same and also protect their own self-interests by opening a base or tightening borders, the media frenzy and propaganda take over to make the U.S. look like angels in the scenario while the other nation suffers headlines which make them aggressors.

Some things never change I suppose, the sad thing is just how many people succumb to this media and take it in as fact and truth. Of course this happens everywhere, but still sad we live in this kind of world.

Also, a serious question, how many bases does the U.S. have worldwide and where are they?
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:16 am

... never mind, went ahead and did a quick search myself.

"Altogether, based on information contained in the DoD’s latest Base Structure Report (BSR), the US has bases in at least 74 countries and troops practically all over the world..."

http://qz.com/374138/these-are-all-t...re-the-us-has-a-military-presence/

Mindboggling.

On the flip side, let's just only take Russia for instance since the Russian Federation was cited in the thread opener. Russia has bases in:

Armenia, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Transnistria, Crimea, Syria and Tajikistan

Most of which are surrounding nations close to home borders and partners during the Soviet Union.

[Edited 2015-09-13 01:24:00]
 
johns624
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:13 pm

I saw a couple of P3's at KEF back in May.
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Strategically, it's not a bad idea I think ...

Yes, it's a great idea. The Cold War is back whether we like it or not, so the ability to cut off Russia from the Atlantic is a worthwhile objective.

Going forward, it will be important to develop technology and strategy to deny Russia and China the ability to operate outside their own shadows as much as possible.
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Pyrex
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 2):
Russia has bases in:

Armenia, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Transnistria, Crimea, Syria and Tajikistan

Most of which are surrounding nations close to home borders and partners during the Soviet Union.

The difference, of course, is that, for the most part, when the U.S. opens a base somewhere the host country actually wants them there, which is not usually the modus operandi of the Russians.

Let's see, of the list you provided, two of them (Crimea and Transnistria) aren't even countries, but pieces of neighboring countries Russia annexed (same reason why the Russians still have anything in Georgia, btw), Armenia reluctantly bites the bullet to protect from an invasion from Azerbaijan, Belarus is a vassal state, Syria is run by a despot that gasses his own people and is barely hanging on to power and the Stans are just Soviet-style authocracies.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
The difference, of course, is that, for the most part, when the U.S. opens a base somewhere the host country actually wants them there

Oh but of course... All those host countries just want the U.S. everywhere. Give me a break man, this is the same brainwashing stuff that I was referring to. The U.S. also doesn't have to ask to make a presence. That's just how it goes these days. And that is not also just referring to bases. When you are a big guy, you can do what you want - they just conveniently make it seem like it's the correct thing to do.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
Let's see, of the list you provided

Yup, most of those bases have been there for a while. No nonsense expansion. And also, how long has the Crimean base existed? I mean you are so focused on underlining annexation yet it adds no value to the discussion regarding bases. Even though I'm not a supporter of what happened in Crimea personally (I don't think it was handled correctly at all and the timing), the fact that there was a base out there for so long actually supports the Russian agenda and most of the cries from the citizens of Crimea themselves.
 
Pyrex
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
And also, how long has the Crimean base existed?

Precisely my point. When there is a risk the people of the country where the Russian bases are located will want them out, they just annex it. How many of those Russian bases would exist if that was not the case?
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):

You lost me there. Have you been to Crimea? Judging from your stance, no. The population of Crimea is very different from the rest of Ukraine. There was no majority in Crimea that wanted Russia out of anywhere, that base has been a long time standing. And just like the US would do anywhere else in the world, Russia is protecting their base. Go talk to all the Crimeans who stampeded to apply for Russian passports, it paints a a very different picture.

But we digress, this isn't a Crimea thread.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
All those host countries just want the U.S. everywhere. Give me a break man, this is the same brainwashing stuff that I was referring to.

If you consider the bases in the Gulf monarchies, the US had not presence there until Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The monarchies all asked for the US assistance in case Saddam decided to invade the neighboring countries. Notice how none of the monarchies has even asked for the US to withdraw.

The bases in the Pacific are due to North Korean activity (and China is getting into the mix).

I think Japan is the only one grumbling about continued US presence, but Japan is a neutral country so it considers the US military as a liability to its neutral status.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 8):
And just like the US would do anywhere else in the world, Russia is protecting their base.

Except it was official that Crimea was Ukrainian. It's like if the US invades Kiribati and reclaims the islands it relinquished to the country back in the 80s under the pretense that they were once American possessions. Would you agree with the action, then?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
Would you agree with the action, then?

When did I *ever* say I agreed with any actions in Crimea? I've mentioned continuously on this forum that my views on Crimea do not follow the Russian government's. But this is just another example of people on this forum constantly drilling a perspective without listening to the opinion of others, and it's getting worse lately.

While I don't agree with military action in Crimea itself, I also don't think that Ukraine is a saint in this conflict either. I won't even open up the can of worms that is the West's interference in this conflict, including the US. Everyone is involved and everyone has gone about it the wrong way. All at the expense of the innocent citizens of both Ukraine and Russia. I've been to both countries a few times this year alone, with family in each, including Crimea. I'm not pulling any of my opinions from what I read in media, I'm pulling them directly from what I see with my own two eyes and hear with my ears from countless people on the ground in UKR/RUS. This is a lot more of interest to me than hearing the ridiculous directions people on this forum take conversations while sitting in their seats thousands of miles away. I have another trip coming up to Kiev very shortly and can't wait to be back there.

Now, back on the subject of bases. Yes, regardless of which country the Russian base is in, I do expect them to protect it.

It doesn't matter why US bases are where they are, I'm merely referring to the amount of them scattered around the globe. The US has conveniently positioned itself to be everywhere at a moments notice in case it needs to be. Regardless of whether there are active or not, there is infrastructure.

So my point still stands, the US is scattered, but starts throwing a major hissy fit like a little kid when other powers arm themselves. That is all.
 
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pu
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
When you are a big guy, you can do what you want -

Jealous much?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
the Russian agenda

....which you support very well. A fine Putin surrogate.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
The monarchies all asked for the US assistance

Scandinavia is actively seeking greater US military ties -like the rest of the Baltic- because Russia is, as always, a threat to its neighbours. Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden + Finland move in a coordinated effort, although some moves seem public and some are hidden. Throughout the region there is increasing US military presence and I applaud Iceland's very public consultation with the US on reopening the base.

Russia is a backwards drag on human progress only held together by war, the threat of war, and the perverse nationalism born of a paranoid belief the world is in conspiracy against them.




Pu.
 
photopilot
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
The difference, of course, is that, for the most part, when the U.S. opens a base somewhere the host country actually wants them there

And when the host country wants the USA to leave, and close their base, and return the land, and the U.S. refuses, then what? Does might make right?
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:34 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
I think Japan is the only one grumbling about continued US presence, but Japan is a neutral country so it considers the US military as a liability to its neutral status.

I think it has really only been factions of Japanese people, I don't know of the government pushing back on the US that hard except for their dislike for anything nuclear.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 10):
Everyone is involved and everyone has gone about it the wrong way.

Very true. The US should be arming Ukraine and every other eastern European country to the teeth as we speak.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:56 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 11):
Jealous much?

  Funny. Jealous of what? I'm also an American.

Quoting pu (Reply 11):
....which you support very well.

Obviously shows how little you know and understand me. But again, wouldn't expect much more from people on here who just shove a one-sided opinion (and that's all anyone really has when it comes down to it) down everyone's throats instead of coming together and learning from one another. The whole pissing contest is just ridiculous to watch.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Very true. The US should be arming Ukraine and every other eastern European country to the teeth as we speak.


I would love to have a simulated parallel universe in which we play out various scenarios of what would happen if we go down particular paths. If the US arms Ukraine right now, shit will go down. And it won't be in Ukraine's favor, especially for it's unfortunate citizens. Also, the mere fact that you say you need to arm Eastern Euro countries at the moment is already an aggressive stance of it's own. You aren't protecting anyone, but rather poking at a situation that doesn't exist. While Putin's actions are questionable currently and God only hopes this stops soon, Other Eastern European nations are not being touched. And won't be. Ukraine and Russia has ties that most people can't even begin to comprehend.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 11):
because Russia is, as always, a threat to its neighbours. Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden + Finland

Also, about that. Please tell me you are kidding. Russia is a threat to Scandinavia? Sweden's policy to let in unlimited asylum seekers is more of a threat to your nation right now than Russia will ever be.
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
If the US arms Ukraine right now, shit will go down. And it won't be in Ukraine's favor,

A well armed Ukraine can make things painful enough that Russia will get back in Russia where they belong. The goal, if not to defeat the separatists and their Russian helpers entirely, is to make the conflict so expensive in terms of men, materiel and money that it brings Russia to its knees if they persist. Coffins and a crappy economy form a tough obstacle for any dictator.

And if the Ukrainians struggle, a more decisive intervention may be needed.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
Also, the mere fact that you say you need to arm Eastern Euro countries at the moment is already an aggressive stance of it's own. You aren't protecting anyone, but rather poking at a situation that doesn't exist.

Russia has invaded two of its neighbors in a span of six years.

Isolationism has been an abject failure time after time.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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pvjin
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
A well armed Ukraine can make things painful enough that Russia will get back in Russia where they belong. The goal, if not to defeat the separatists and their Russian helpers entirely, is to make the conflict so expensive in terms of men, materiel and money that it brings Russia to its knees if they persist. Coffins and a crappy economy form a tough obstacle for any dictator.

And if the Ukrainians struggle, a more decisive intervention may be needed.

The majority of local population in Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine wants to be part of Russia. Their wish should be respected.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Russia has invaded two of its neighbors in a span of six years.

Isolationism has been an abject failure time after time.

No, lack of isolationism already caused WW2. Without you Americans intervening Germany would have probably won the war, or at least it wouldn't have lost so badly. As a result German economy wouldn't have been ruined so badly, and German people wouldn't have been left so bitter, both of which were required for the rise of Nazis.

Your actions in Iraq gave us ISIS.

It would be the best if you returned back to isolationist policy, we here in Europe are already in deep trouble thanks to your failures. I hope Russia will help to stop these refugee crisis from continuing for decades by helping Assad to remain in power and defeat western supported terrorists who fight against his legitimate and secular rule.

[Edited 2015-09-13 12:22:44]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Russia has invaded two of its neighbors in a span of six years.

That's all a matter of opinions and media really. Invasion is not a word most people on the ground in Ukraine would call what had happened. It's a word used in the West to spread coverage and point fingers at Russia (because let's face it, relations between Russia and the West were never good - there was a period of calm, but still constant tension regarding politics in the late 1990s and 2000s) and what is convenient for Western governments.

And if you are talking about Georgia in the past, all you really have to look at is the relationship of the Georgian president at that time with the US administration. That should answer all the answers. Ironic that the same man that cried wolf back in the Georgian crisis is the same man that supported all the revolutionary protests in Ukraine. Saakashvili was even given citizenship in Ukraine if memory serves me right. Now, he is there pushing that same agenda on different soil, being close buddies with the current corrupted officials that are leading Kiev. I find a very interesting parallel between the innocent citizens of Ukraine and those of Georgia back in the day. They wanted none of this, but yet suffered because of the chest pumping of administrations much larger.

Notice how things in Georgia are relatively peaceful at the moment. Once Giorgi Margvelashvili stepped up to the plate, he knew what to do and has done a wonderful job bringing his country back to stability, while opening up ties with European nations and simultaneously easing the situation between Russia - something that he unfortunately has to deal with as an aftermath of Saakashvili's crazy term in office. Wheels down in Tbilisi, it's amazing to see the difference in the country since after 2013.

[Edited 2015-09-13 12:23:04]
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:26 pm

... oh yes, of course he has Ukrainian citizenship now as a Governor of a Ukrainian region. Convenient.
 
Pyrex
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 12):
And when the host country wants the USA to leave, and close their base, and return the land, and the U.S. refuses, then what? Does might make right?

If you are talking about Guantanamo, it is not like the U.S. annexed Cuba...

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
Jealous of what? I'm also an American.

Just goes to show how wretched the Russian genes can be. Not that we needed any more examples after the fine behavior we have seen from populations of Russian descent in the Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc... as long as you don't start demanding "independence" for Brighton Beach I guess we can consider ourselves lucky.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):
ust goes to show how wretched the Russian genes can be. Not that we needed any more examples after the fine behavior we have seen from populations of Russian descent in the Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc... as long as you don't start demanding "independence" for Brighton Beach I guess we can consider ourselves lucky.

Again, no words to describe the utter crap that people on here spew up just to puff their chests and show they know all. At the end of the day it's a good thing, because it just goes to show true human nature and hostility. Good job though, Pyrex, you've accomplished that.
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
Without you Americans intervening Germany would have probably won the war, or at least it wouldn't have lost so badly.

That is questionable at best.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
As a result German economy wouldn't have been ruined so badly, and German people wouldn't have been left so bitter, both of which were required for the rise of Nazis.

There is no contortion you won't make to make it sound like it's America's fault.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
Your actions in Iraq gave us ISIS.

Lack of action in Iraq allowed the rise of ISIS. Lack of action allowed Al Qaeda to get to the point where it could pull off 9/11.

Saddam should have been removed and Iraq split up in 1991. We took the easy way out in the Gulf War and it turned into just a Band-Aid. Lack of intervention in Syria is allowing ISIS to persist and refugees to flood Europe. It's better to act decisively early than to allow a humanitarian crisis.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
I hope Russia will help to stop these refugee crisis from continuing for decades by helping Assad to remain in power and defeat western supported terrorists who fight against his legitimate and secular rule.

Assad is no longer useful and too close with the Russians. It's time for him to be removed along with Russian influence, but we must be careful to replace him with the right people.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):
Just goes to show how wretched the Russian genes can be. Not that we needed any more examples after the fine behavior we have seen from populations of Russian descent in the Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc... as long as you don't start demanding "independence" for Brighton Beach I guess we can consider ourselves lucky.

Please tell us just which groups do meet your ethnic standards.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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pu
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:21 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 12):
And when the host country wants the USA to leave, and close their base, and return the land, and the U.S. refuses, then what? Does might make right?

It's not the host government's wishes that are as important as the people's wishes. The Cuban people were pissed off when the US vastly reduced the hiring of local Cubans to help out with administrative/housekeeping tasks; likewise the Cuban people will be llining up for miles to apply for jobs at Guantanamo once they presumably become available again in the wake of the US-Cuba thaw.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
Obviously shows how little you know and understand me

Genius, no one is interested in understanding the many different complexities of your wonderfully deep personality. The intricate details of your many loyalties are fascinating only to yourself - we only have your apologist stance for Russian crimes and your anti-American rhetoric to go by.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
The whole pissing contest is just ridiculous to watch.

Says the man with 10+ posts in a 23 post thread. Who's making it a contest again?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 15):
Also, about that. Please tell me you are kidding. Russia is a threat to Scandinavia? Sweden's policy to let in unlimited asylum seekers is more of a threat to your nation right now than Russia will ever be.

Russia violates Swedish airspace and territorial waters almost weekly. Without Sweden's ties to NATO and the US, we would be just another target of opportunity for Putin.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
No, lack of isolationism already caused WW2. Without you Americans intervening Germany would have probably won the war, or at least it wouldn't have lost so badly. As a result German economy wouldn't have been ruined so badly, and German people wouldn't have been left so bitter, both of which were required for the rise of Nazis.

So America caused the rise of the Nazis and not the Germans?

Someday you'll realize that people choose their own government and are entirely responsible for its policies. Regardless of what America does or does not do.

You might want to check on America's net contribution to both world wars btw, in comparison to the British Empire, France and the USSR...and then get back to us about who is mostly responsible for the wars outcomes.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
Your actions in Iraq gave us ISIS.

No, the Muslims who support or tolerate ISIS gave us ISIS.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
It would be the best if you returned back to isolationist policy,

The Baltic states would disappear, China would takeover its week neighbours and the entire Middle East would plummet into war. We are fortunate to live in an era where the reigning superpower is not interested in territorial expansion and once it fights wars, leaves, and asks the local population to govern itself - this is unheard of in history.

Of course America makes mistakes, and Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters. This does not, however, excuse Iraqis, Afghanis and Syrians from the incumbent requirement to govern themselves in a way that does not threaten the world.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
we here in Europe are already in deep trouble thanks to your failures.

Just as each individual is largely responsible for the success or failure their life becomes, so it is with Europe. Europe's destiny is entirely in its own hands. It's success or failure is entirely it's own.

How did you come to believe that only the Americans are capable of deciding their own fate? When did you give up the responsibility to govern yourself and outsource the decision making to America? Because you don't like the fate Europe has chosen for itself?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
There is no contortion you won't make to make it sound like it's America's fault.

Agreed.

One of the most painful moments in the life of an individual, a nation or supra-national entity like the EU is the moment it is realized that all mistakes and failures are self created. Many never realize this and blame others, blame the US, blame God etc. for their troubles.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
Lack of action in Iraq allowed the rise of ISIS.

Agreed.

The Iraqis and Syrians have the entire power to govern themselves, whether they choose to govern themselves or not. It may require some sacrifice. All things considered, I'd probably rather move to Germany than fight and die in a long war, so I don't blame them if the German door is wide open.





Pu
 
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WarRI1
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 12):
And when the host country wants the USA to leave, and close their base, and return the land, and the U.S. refuses, then what? Does might make right?

Was it not Cuba who signed the lease, and Cuba who imported nuclear missiles into our back yard by our cold war enemy. the USSR.  
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 24):
Genius, no one is interested in understanding the many different complexities of your wonderfully deep personality. The intricate details of your many loyalties are fascinating only to yourself - we only have your apologist stance for Russian crimes and your anti-American rhetoric to go by.

I'm not asking you to understand me personally. Just a simple, educated discussion that we are having, a mutual discussion. I have 10+ posts in this thread because I'm responding to other posters. Or am I supposed to post once and then shut up? Not my problem that people just read and don't contribute.


Apologetic stance for Russian crimes? I never support or bash these said crimes. I merely speak what I see and hear, all opinions of mine and I'm entitled to them. I'm perhaps offering a view that others haven't heard before because they just hear what they read online or in the news. It's very sad that when people that actually have close ties to the conflict get shot down and don't want to be heard just because they present a viewpoint that goes against the majority on this site. And according to you, my view is wrong and your view is right. Sounds wonderful, what's the point of even engaging in discussions then? Is there any reason to participate in forums? People on here can't be grown adults and carry on in decent conversations without making them into pissing contests. Auf Wiedersehen.

[Edited 2015-09-13 14:40:09]
 
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pvjin
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:42 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25):
Was it not Cuba who signed the lease, and Cuba who imported nuclear missiles into our back yard by our cold war enemy. the USSR.  

What's wrong with importing nuclear missiles into your backyard? Every country should have the right to own as many nuclear missiles as they want, the idea that only some countries should be able to do so is nonsense.

Quoting pu (Reply 24):
So America caused the rise of the Nazis and not the Germans?

Someday you'll realize that people choose their own government and are entirely responsible for its policies. Regardless of what America does or does not do.

You might want to check on America's net contribution to both world wars btw, in comparison to the British Empire, France and the USSR...and then get back to us about who is mostly responsible for the wars outcomes.

Peace treaties that treat one side of the conflict totally unfairly and destroy people's economies are bound to raise hate and extremism. Of course the French are admittely more to be blamed for that.

Quoting pu (Reply 24):
The Baltic states would disappear, China would takeover its week neighbours and the entire Middle East would plummet into war. We are fortunate to live in an era where the reigning superpower is not interested in territorial expansion and once it fights wars, leaves, and asks the local population to govern itself - this is unheard of in history.

Sometimes you just need to let the whole pile of junk to collapse rapidly so that something better would emerge. Eventually the strong would win and there would be less wars than right now.

Quoting pu (Reply 24):
Of course America makes mistakes, and Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters. This does not, however, excuse Iraqis, Afghanis and Syrians from the incumbent requirement to govern themselves in a way that does not threaten the world.

Without America messing around Middle East would have a happy status quo of secular dictators like Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein maintaining order and keeping religious extremists nutjobs in jails or buried underground where they belong to.

Quoting pu (Reply 24):
One of the most painful moments in the life of an individual, a nation or supra-national entity like the EU is the moment it is realized that all mistakes and failures are self created. Many never realize this and blame others, blame the US, blame God etc. for their troubles.

Sure, a lot of our failures are self created, but the US has certainly also very much contributed to them. If the Soviet Union still existed Europeans would have much better things to worry about than flooding our countries with refugees in name of solidarity and tolerance. The world needs a balancing counterpower for the US and its puppets in Europe.
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Aesma
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:45 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
A well armed Ukraine can make things painful enough that Russia will get back in Russia where they belong. The goal, if not to defeat the separatists and their Russian helpers entirely, is to make the conflict so expensive in terms of men, materiel and money that it brings Russia to its knees if they persist. Coffins and a crappy economy form a tough obstacle for any dictator.

It would be nice if you would start WW3 on your own soil, Europe is a little tired of wars.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25):
Was it not Cuba who signed the lease, and Cuba who imported nuclear missiles into our back yard by our cold war enemy. the USSR.  

Why does the US have a right to nuclear weapons, but not Cuba ?
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
Funny. Jealous of what? I'm also an American.

I had not known that, interesting choice of a sign on name, it does seem Russian orientated to me as your contributions/ opinions also seem to be. Your words, your right to use them. Interesting though. I do not support the USA blindly, only about 99.9%. The other .1% I question sometimes with foreign affairs concerning Russia and our other enemies. I also live in the USA and use the flag thereof. Forgive me I was raised that way, to be loyal to the country that has given me so much.
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 27):
What's wrong with importing nuclear missiles into your backyard? Every country should have the right to own as many nuclear missiles as they want, the idea that only some countries should be able to do so is nonsense.


Says the one from Finland where there is nothing to Nuke. All according to perspective I guess. It does matter who owns the missiles and where they are located and who they are targeted at. My perspective anyway as it was back in the USSR days and the Cold War Era and even today, surprise, surprise! We will not give that chance again to one of our neighbors, and Cuba is still one of our neighbors along with South America.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Pyrex
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Please tell us just which groups do meet your ethnic standards.

Someone who has had a single democratically-elected, non-authoritarian leader at least once in its lifetime would be nice, for starters. In the long-run, every people has the leaders it deserves - a couple of despots at most may be a fluke, but if you keep being run by assholes, at some point it starts saying more about yourself than it does about the people running you.
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BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 27):
What's wrong with importing nuclear missiles into your backyard? Every country should have the right to own as many nuclear missiles as they want, the idea that only some countries should be able to do so is nonsense.

Strictly speaking, yes every country does have the right to do that. Of course, those actions will have certain consequences. That's the beauty of force after all.

Cuba has the right to bring in nuclear weapons, but they won't exercise that right and they're going to like it because doing so might mean they become a smoking hole in the ground.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 27):
Peace treaties that treat one side of the conflict totally unfairly and destroy people's economies are bound to raise hate and extremism.

Avoiding such things is why you shouldn't invade your neighbors, and if you do, need to make sure they can't defeat you.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 27):
Without America messing around Middle East would have a happy status quo of secular dictators like Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein maintaining order and keeping religious extremists nutjobs in jails or buried underground where they belong to.

Perhaps you would think differently after a dose of sarin...

And the refugee situation Europe is dealing with now happened precisely because of isolationism and not messing around. Isolationism has failed over and over.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 28):
It would be nice if you would start WW3 on your own soil, Europe is a little tired of wars.

That's why the right move is to be well armed enough to make sure there is no possibility of a little war.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 28):
Why does the US have a right to nuclear weapons, but not Cuba ?

What is anyone going to do about it?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 29):
The other .1% I question sometimes with foreign affairs concerning Russia and our other enemies.

That other .1% is the part that values economic freedom, the part that tolerates Chinese, the part that tolerates Mexicans, the part that tolerates Muslims, etc.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
Someone who has had a single democratically-elected, non-authoritarian leader at least once in its lifetime would be nice, for starters. In the long-run, every people has the leaders it deserves - a couple of despots at most may be a fluke, but if you keep being run by assholes, at some point it starts saying more about yourself than it does about the people running you.

Explain what that has to do with genetics. Of course, it has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with your prejudices.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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pu
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
In the long-run, every people has the leaders it deserves - a couple of despots at most may be a fluke, but if you keep being run by assholes, at some point it starts saying more about yourself than it does about the people running you.

^this^





America has a huge influence in the world.

...and rightfully so. They've invested much of their wealth in this influence. But it's like your parent's influence. Or maybe your big brother's influence - he can bribe, argue and threaten you but ultimately you make the final decisions in life. What's telling is how the same people saying ISIS is America's fault since they toppled stable regional dictators were also saying how wrong it was for America to support Saddam and other dictators in days past.

Those under murderous Saddam and the mass murderer Assad may have enjoyed slightly more favourable odds of long term survival in the roulette wheel of life under a Muslim government than they do under ISIS. BUT, we should recognize this as going from bad to worse in a culture that refuses to govern itself reasonably and denies self-responsibility for their own fate.

Bring on the US base at Keflavik....




Pu.
 
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 33):
America has a huge influence in the world.

...and rightfully so. They've invested much of their wealth in this influence. But it's like your parent's influence. Or maybe your big brother's influence - he can bribe, argue and threaten you but ultimately you make the final decisions in life. What's telling is how the same people saying ISIS is America's fault since they toppled stable regional dictators were also saying how wrong it was for America to support Saddam and other dictators in days past.

Those under murderous Saddam and the mass murderer Assad may have enjoyed slightly more favourable odds of long term survival in the roulette wheel of life under a Muslim government than they do under ISIS. BUT, we should recognize this as going from bad to worse in a culture that refuses to govern itself reasonably and denies self-responsibility for their own fate.

Bring on the US base at Keflavik....

  



Absolutely, what is that old saying? "You are Master of your own destiny" It seems most in that area are incapable of that. What do the advocates of free trade, big business, trade with anybody, just make money call these types such as these people in the Middle East? I think the term is Losers.

[Edited 2015-09-13 16:07:53]
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Pyrex
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
Explain what that has to do with genetics. Of course, it has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with your prejudices.

It is either genetics or culture, your pick, but considering how easily Russians even after being exposed to the outside world fall over themselves for a guy like Putin I know which one is mine. You have a guy in this thread professing to be a U.S. citizen and even he falls for it and shows where his true allegiances lie. I know Russians educated at Harvard and MIT that just scoop up whatever bullshit is offered by the Kremlin (the sad thing is that Putin's popularity numbers are probably not too far from the truth).
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YYZatcboy
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 27):
Without America messing around Middle East would have a happy status quo of secular dictators like Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein maintaining order and keeping religious extremists nutjobs in jails or buried underground where they belong to.

Can you possibly be serious? Here is just one example of the crimes of Saddam:

1988 -- Halabja Gassing

During the Anfal campaign, "Chemical Ali" ordered an attack against civilians in the town of Halabja. Iraqi forces dropped bombs containing mustard and nerve gases. An estimated 5,000 men, women and children died in a single day. Many more died from long-term medical problems, and birth defects are still common in the area.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=2761722&page=1

He was also by no means secular just because he never went after Christians. Just ask the millions of Shi'ite Muslims he murdered. He also started a "Faith Campaign' in 1994 that funded thousands of Islamic schools and mosques he built and the Koran written in his own blood.

Gadaffi was also guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, he starved entire cities and murdered wounded soldiers in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions. Assad likewise tortured and imprisoned thousands of citizens who had participated in protests, routinely bombs and murders civilians, and destroys key infrastructure.

To post here that these men are better than giving the people a chance to rule themselves is heinous. These dictators should have been disposed and brought to justice long ago as hundreds of thousands of dead civilians could have had their lives saved if the world had acted earlier instead of pretending that Libyan, Iraqi, Syrian and Kurd lives don't matter.

[Edited 2015-09-13 18:51:09]
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Caryjack
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
The difference, of course, is that, for the most part, when the U.S. opens a base somewhere the host country actually wants them there
Oh but of course... All those host countries just want the U.S.

I believe they do. On December 28, 1991 the Philippine Senate voted to overrule their President and told the US military to pull out of the Philippines, which they did. In doing so, the US Navy lost Subic Bay and the US Air Force lost Clark Field. I understand that the Filipinos are thinking about having the US Military back.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...back-the-americans-they-kicked-out

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
If you consider the bases in the Gulf monarchies, the US had not presence there until Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The monarchies all asked for the US assistance in case Saddam decided to invade the neighboring countries. Notice how none of the monarchies has even asked for the US to withdraw.

  
The Qatar Government built a very large military air base in the desert called Al Udeid at a time when they didn't even have an air force. The plan was to offer it to a foreign power thereby avoiding the cost of their own air force while gaining the security they need. The US took them up.
Qatar isn't the first country to cook up such a scheme. In fact Costa Rica and the US have a mutual defense agreement. If the US is attacked Costa Rica will respond with their ...police force. They don't have a standing army or navy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Udeid_Air_Base
Thanks,   
Cary
 
BMI727
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 36):
Can you possibly be serious?

He can.

Pvjin has proven himself in thread after thread to be an unapologetic racist. He wouldn't mind if every Muslim on the planet were gassed. Probably the same with other groups too...
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Aesma
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:04 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
What is anyone going to do about it?

Most people won't do anything, but such attitudes bring resentment, and that sometimes leads to things like airplanes being flown into buildings.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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pvjin
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 36):
To post here that these men are better than giving the people a chance to rule themselves is heinous. These dictators should have been disposed and brought to justice long ago as hundreds of thousands of dead civilians could have had their lives saved if the world had acted earlier instead of pretending that Libyan, Iraqi, Syrian and Kurd lives don't matter.

Giving people in failed states like Syria, Iraq and Libya a chance to "rule themselves" means civil war as we have already seen. Radical extremist organizations such as ISIS take full advantage of any freedom. Democracy does not work in these areas, too many religious bigots and uneducated people around.

Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad. They weren't / aren't good men, but they were/are better than the alternative, which is ISIS.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
gocaps16
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:09 am

Funny how this was never mentioned from the top brass earlier this week at an All-Hands call. I won't believe it until it actually happens. However, I do wish NAS Keflavik would re-open. It would be a great opportunity my my wife and daughter to experience living in Iceland and I do miss it out there during my P-3C days before it was shutdown.
 
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 2):
"Altogether, based on information contained in the DoD’s latest Base Structure Report (BSR), the US has bases in at least 74 countries and troops practically all over the world..."

Your list includes anywhere they might have a single military officer stationed, like a military attache in an embassy. So I call bullshit on that list.

That said, I tend to think that unless our military is on a mission to kill people and break shit, all units should be based in the US.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
910A
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RE: U.S. Military To Reopen Base In Iceland?

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 42):
Your list includes anywhere they might have a single military officer stationed, like a military attache in an embassy. So I call bullshit on that list.

   Single military officer stationed as an embassy, what happen to the Marines Security Guards?
Even one of your favorite politicians Ron Paul knows better. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...has-military-personnel-130-nation/

U.S. military personnel by country. The United States has active duty military troops stationed in nearly 150 countries. The table below details how many troops are in each country as of September 30, 2011, according to the U.S. Department of Defense.
www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/04/us/table.military.troops/

In this regard, Hugh d’Andrade and Bob Wing’s 2002 Map 1 entitled “U.S. Military Troops and Bases around the World, The Cost of ‘Permanent War’”, confirms the presence of US military personnel in 156 countries.

The US Military has bases in 63 countries. Brand new military bases have been built since September 11, 2001 in seven countries.

In total, there are 255,065 US military personnel deployed Worldwide.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-wor...-network-of-us-military-bases/5564

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