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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:48 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 41):
If I thought it was a suspicious device in this climate of terrorism and with the homegrown terrorist constantly in the news, and I did not know if it was harmless, and my students and myself could possibly be in danger, I most certainly would not let this boys word satisfy me

His name is Ahmed Mohamed and he has darker skin and his project has wires and a clock on it.

If his name were John Smith and he has white skin and his project has wires and a clock on it, it is probably a clock. That is what you meant to say.

To be suspicious of isolationists like the Tsarnaievs and James Holmes and Dylann Roof is understandable. But, to be suspicious of a teen doing well in school and well adjusted is overboard.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:58 am

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 49):
In that case I retract my statement, however your history on here has shown that you have little tolerance for Muslims. I'm skeptical, but I'll still retract my statement.

You are 100 % correct, I am not one who has much patience with Muslims who come to any country, and then refuse to assimilate into regular society, and then demand accommodations to their ways which are not always compatible to the society in their host country. We have seen this time and time again here there and everywhere. I am also no fan of the silence from the Muslim community when terrorists strike, no condemnation. I am certainly not sympathetic to Muslims who persecute Christians and anybody else who has a different religion, and then come to a country where religious tolerance is written into the constitution. I am no fan of anyone who kills their own children for trying to assimilate into a non Muslim society. I am no fan of Islam whose English translation means (submission) I have reservations about such a religion, yet I unlike most of them believe in religious freedom for all.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
To be suspicious of isolationists like the Tsarnaievs and James Holmes and Dylann Roof is understandable. But, to be suspicious of a teen doing well in school and well adjusted is overboard.

Only his teacher who was alarmed by his actions can answer that. The race card, the religion card is always paramount in these cases these days. He was a bright kid, and he could be a bright dangerous kid as we have seen many times in this country, color and religion has not been a big factor in children killing children in these school shootings. They just kill whoever is in the way, or attempt to.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:27 am

I'm surprised nobody has started a topic "Americans - Compatible With Science?" yet...  
 
A332DTW
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:31 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
You are 100 % correct, I am not one who has much patience with Muslims who come to any country, and then refuse to assimilate into regular society, and then demand accommodations to their ways which are not always compatible to the society in their host country. We have seen this time and time again here there and everywhere. I am also no fan of the silence from the Muslim community when terrorists strike, no condemnation. I am certainly not sympathetic to Muslims who persecute Christians and anybody else who has a different religion, and then come to a country where religious tolerance is written into the constitution. I am no fan of anyone who kills their own children for trying to assimilate into a non Muslim society. I am no fan of Islam whose English translation means (submission) I have reservations about such a religion, yet I unlike most of them believe in religious freedom for all.

I know, I know... believe me, I have not forgotten all of that. We are all such evil monsters, we destroy your country, you will live in Sharia this time next year... I know.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 53):
The race card, the religion card is always paramount in these cases these days.

*facepalm* Which is why we have people bending over backward to demand there is Islamic terrorism when dark skinned people murder but misunderstood when white people do it.
 
AR385
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:35 am

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
And that's why private schools in the DFW area manage to lure the best and the brightest students away from public schools thanks to financial aid and scholarships.

Having lived in Irving, I am not surprised. In Irving the police do the bidfding of he blond, blue-eyed white American with MONEY. it´s been like that since forever. A Muslim, brown skined, weird named teenager stands no chance, just as a Black kid, a Hispanic kid etc...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):
It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

So. You agree with:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 30):
"We live in an age where you can´t be taking things like that to school"

Irving, Tx. Chief of Police

I guess kids in the US will be relegated for their science projects to bring volcanoes made with Play-Doh and Alka-Seltzer with water to simulate eruptions. God forgive one thinking outside the box. He will get arrested. Osama has won, beyond his wild imaginings. Now he is contributing to the dumbing down of America.
 
N1120A
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:09 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
Once again, much ado about nothing. We have zero tolerance here in schools.

Zero tolerance for clock making?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
He was naïve, the teacher was scared, the police did not have a clue what it was and neither would I. I know one thing, when you think your ass is going to get blown off, you are not looking at skin color, nor religion.

HE IS FOURTEEN! Defending this is absolutely sick.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 39):
How could you possibly tell what the clock was doing? How could you tell it was a clock? Did I miss something, it does not look like any clock I have ever seen, how the hell was this teacher supposed to know what it was? Is she an electronics expert, a clock expert, a bomb expert?

Take one look at it. The engineering teacher knew what it was.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 47):
In this climate of terrorism, everyone is suspect, white, brown, black red, yellow.

That is a sick way of thinking.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):
It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

What on earth are you talking about? This is a 14 year old child. One who made a clock. One who takes an engineering class.

Here's a question - would he be suspicious if he had a cell phone? You know, because the vast majority of kids now are allowed to carry cell phones to school. You know how they blew the trains in Madrid? Cell phones?

How about wearing a watch? Especially a digital one? Suspicious? Arrest him?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
If his name were John Smith and he has white skin and his project has wires and a clock on it, it is probably a clock. That is what you meant to say.

Of course.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Clocks? FFS - what a disgusting, bigoted idiot the guy who said that is.

It'd be nice if it was just one bigoted idiot, but it's Irving. The city is a cesspool of bigoted idiots. It starts at the top with a mayor who recently went on a campaign to stop Muslims' attempt to impose Sharia law in the US. And on down throughout city government.

To make matters worse, they also trample basic rights. When the kid was hauled in the principal's office to meet with a few of the city's not-best-and-brightest, he was smart enough to ask for his parents. A request the officers ignored for an hour while they pressured him into writing a statement that would confirm their bigoted, idiotic view of the world. When his father finally arrived at the police station, they had the audacity to tell him he couldn't see his son because he was being questioned. Alone. At 14.

Making a clock is bad. Ignoring rights, not so much. The police chief has already announced there would be no investigation of his officers' conduct. Good old bigoted idiotic white boys must stick together I suppose.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 46):
This smells like a classic case of cover your ass from the school administration.

Irving makes no wrong. Their only official reaction so far has been to send parents a letter reminding them not to let their kids bring fake bombs and fake weapons onto school property.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:45 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
He was naïve

He's a school kid.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 39):
Is she an electronics expert, a clock expert, a bomb expert?

No she's probably a very religious, right-winger who thinks science is the work of the devil.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 41):
I did not miss that part at all. If I thought it was a suspicious device in this climate of terrorism and with the homegrown terrorist constantly in the news, and I did not know if it was harmless, and my students and myself could possibly be in danger, I most certainly would not let this boys word satisfy me.

Mainly because he has brown skin and is called Mohammed.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):
It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

He's a school kid. It was his science project.   

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
If his name were John Smith and he has white skin and his project has wires and a clock on it, it is probably a clock. That is what you meant to say.

Bingo!

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
I am also no fan of the silence from the Muslim community when terrorists strike, no condemnation.

There is, but seeing it doesn't fit the "all Muslims are terrorists" agenda.
 
Mir
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:00 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):
It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

Since when is a clock a suspicious device?

-Mir
 
Arniepie
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:04 am

What an absolute clusterfuck, there is no excuse for such stupidity, and yes this smells, looks and tastes a lot like
Islamophobia and/or racism.

At least he gets a visit to the president as a result of this, good for him.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ded-muslim-teen-to-the-white-house

Quoting link:
Obama invites suspended Muslim teen to the White House
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
You are 100 % correct, I am not one who has much patience with Muslims who come to any country

We already know that.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
and then refuse to assimilate into regular society

This guy was assimilating, he was in school.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
and then demand accommodations to their ways which are not always compatible to the society in their host country

He didn't demand anything

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
I am certainly not sympathetic to Muslims who persecute Christians and anybody else who has a different religion, and then come to a country where religious tolerance is written into the constitution.

At 14 i doubt that he was persecuting anybody.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
I am no fan of anyone who kills their own children for trying to assimilate into a non Muslim society.

At 14 i don't think he has any children to kill.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
yet I unlike most of them believe in religious freedom for all

Except for Muslims.

Instead of accusing all Muslims with the above why don't you try to base your opinion on a case to case ?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):
It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

I have a question for you here. If they suspected that he did have a suspicious device why was the school not evacuated, why nobody called the bomb squad? You risk the life of hundred of children by not acting properly when you suspect there is a bomb in school. I think all teachers involved and the principal should be suspended.

Having said that,they also were to blame for the disruption of the school, they over reacted, you could have asked the proper teacher to check the clock,and that would have been the end of story.

Now, the police investigated and at the end it was cleared as being a clock why not lift the suspension?


I am glad to say that not all Americans are like you, from the responses on twitter and the encouragement he is receiving for other Americans you seems to be in the minority.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 54):
I'm surprised nobody has started a topic "Americans - Compatible With Science?" yet...  

No need to, everyone knows that 80% of Americans believe in miracles, 75% in Jesus born by a virgin, 50% in intelligent design and 40% earth is less than 10.000 years old.
I mean... none of the teachers or cops noticed the clock wasn't counting down and probably showed the current time ....
A backpack holds some 60 lbs of C4, why bother with a strange looking clock, but going through the motion of "hiding" the purpose of the trigger mechanism by showing the correct time?

Quoting Mir (Reply 61):

Since when is a clock a suspicious device?

For people believing that every single muslim refugee is in fact an ISIS terrorist in disguise, everything in the hands of a Muslim is a suspicious device.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 59):
Their only official reaction so far has been to send parents a letter reminding them not to let their kids bring fake bombs and fake weapons onto school property.

And a clock is neither.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 47):
In this climate of terrorism, everyone is suspect, white, brown, black red, yellow. Nobody is exclusive, nor excluded.

Well, I guess US security forces better start rounding up gun owners. Since according to you everyone is suspicious and they have much more dangerous weapons than clocks, it would be the only logical move. Or was that just an empty statement?

Best regards
Thomas
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 64):
Quoting Mir (Reply 61):

Since when is a clock a suspicious device?

For people believing that every single muslim refugee is in fact an ISIS terrorist in disguise, everything in the hands of a Muslim is a suspicious device.

The Hollywood version of a bomb timer. I have learned a bit about real terrorist bombs from my former blasting instructor in the German civil defence (THW), where I got trained in civilian use of explosives (demolitions, quarrying etc.). He was often called by police as an explosives expert to assess terrorist bombs, and during class he would sometimes tell stories about them. Yes, I had a blasting and explosives licence, but it is long expired.

Real bombs look in no way like what Hollywood proclaims (though I would not want to go into details).

Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):
If you are carrying this?

If I were a physics or engineering teacher, I would ask the student where he got hold of this super accurate cesium atomic clock. I have only seen them in books so far.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):
or this:

The question would be: What electrolyte did you use to make the two bottle batteries powering the clock?

When I was in highschool I used to hang out at the physics department of Freie Universität Berlin and earned myself a bit of pocket money by doing odd chores in one of the laboratories.
As the physics department was close to my school, I often cycled to school from home wearing coveralls and bags full of weird equipment, e.g. a high vacuum diffusion pump or Geiger counters (I had some radioactive minerals (Uranium and Thorium ores in my collection of rocks), because after school I was cycling straight to the university.
Fortunately we had somew science teachers, who were just equally weird, curious and funny, and especially the chemistry teachers loved explosions themselves.
I would also regularly carry a pocket knife (one of the Spanish clasp knives, which make the ratcheting sound when opened, it was a good carbon steel and I honed it as sharp as a razor).

But it was a different time as well:
Close to my school was a training area of the US Army Berlin Brigade, where they practised combat in urban area (basically a mock city district). The area was fenced in and strictly verboten, but some of my classmates climbed over the fence and collected leftover ammunition and pyrotechnics. One day a classmate came with a live practice grenade and showed off with it. It got confiscated by a teacher and left in the teacher's room on one of the desks.
One of the crazy chemistry teachers saw it after school, when the school yard was empty, and, having been a conscript in the Bundeswehr decades before, decided to dispose of it by arming it and throwing it out of the window. Unfortunately he forgot to hold down the lever, so it explosed just after it left his hand, causing a big bang and a vcloud of plaster dust. He stood there, counting his fingers (all still there), and an elderly spinster tyüpe English teacher, who was sitting at a desk, correcting assignments, went into a screaming fit. But this was in the early 1980s.

In university I almost got expelled once because I made gun cotton. During inorganic chemistry lab class I had a bunch of beakers sitting in a hot sand bath, slowly boiling for hours. I could not leave the lab while the heat was on for safety reasons, and was terribly bored. During lunch break I went to a pharmacy and bought some cotton wool, because I wanted to make a small series of samples, seeing which mix of concentrated sulfuric and nitric acid would give me the highest nitrated gun cotton (just small samples), while waiting for the liquid in the beakers to boil down.
The female assistant teacher came "What are you doing here Mr.....? Explosives! I'm going to call the professor in charge!". The professor came and told me that if I wanted to make experiments like this, I should do it in his personal lab, not in the student's one. I think that, as a student he had done similar things.

And my father told me a few stories from his time as a student in the 1950s, totally unthinkable today!

Jan
 
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casinterest
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 41):
did not miss that part at all. If I thought it was a suspicious device in this climate of terrorism and with the homegrown terrorist constantly in the news, and I did not know if it was harmless, and my students and myself could possibly be in danger, I most certainly would not let this boys word satisfy me. I would have called the Police, they are the experts in a crisis. Look at the ages of the school shooters, just fresh faced kids mostly.

No, the teacher was another of a long line of bad educators . They didn't recognize that it takes wires and circuits to create a clock. They are just too used to their sleek ipad and calculator cases that hide all the nitty gritty from their view. This teacher over reacted, and then the police overreacted by arresting the kid when there was no bomb, no threat, and no claim of a threat.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 24):
And neither do you. You formed an opinion based on what you read and I formed mine. The kid told his teachers, school and police several times that he had made a clock. It was the rest of them that insisted on the word "bomb" even though there was nothing (other than specific prejudice) that would point to that. As for the pictures you posted above, well, any mechanism involving cables and liquids - so anything that involves robotics and electronics - could be mistaken for a bomb. I ain't buying it.

I know, and while I disagree I can't fault your concerns. I just hope you and others understand (and you appear to) that your concerns may not be the core issue. I do realize the same. I keep my eyes open for it and will jump on it if it turns out to be such.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Every teacher and police thug involved should be terminated, prosecuted and sued. This was abject bigotry and has no place in a school, or anywhere.

Wow.... Sorry. No. I just do not think that was at play. I think everyone afterwards has turned it into that but it did not start out as that. It started as a kid bringing an object that some people misinterpreted, to class. To be "safe" the teachers freaked out and ignored the kid statements, ignored common sense, and that lead to calling the police which also ignored common sense and instead "went by the book".

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
His name is Ahmed Mohamed and he has darker skin and his project has wires and a clock on it.

So you are being racist and making assumptions based on his skin and name? I thought you were better than that. Seriously, you are making this statement "about others" but it you that's making it, not the others. You are pushing words into other peoples mouth because I suspect that is how you feel. Because you can't actually know what others are thinking and feeling... unless you can agree I can know what you are thinking and feeling....

I certainly don't. I am simply positing what I believe happened and why, and I do not think it was race or faith based but stupidity and overreaction based.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
If his name were John Smith and he has white skin and his project has wires and a clock on it, it is probably a clock. That is what you meant to say.

No, I think the same thing would have happened but we would have never heard about it because it was just another kid getting screwed and someone couldn't turn it into a race/religion thing. Now people can get attention and make money from it. If it was John Smith there would be no invitation from the white House or Facebook, there might be some minor outrage locally but everyone else would just shrug.

And let me ask you this, if it DID happen to John or Jane Smith, do you think he or she would deserve all the attention currently being displayed? Do YOU think they would get all the invitations? And if not, why? NO kid deserves to have their love and excitement for science and school stamped on.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
To be suspicious of isolationists like the Tsarnaievs and James Holmes and Dylann Roof is understandable. But, to be suspicious of a teen doing well in school and well adjusted is overboard.

That is where it all went out of control.

Though I will note that you are making a statement regarding the "isolationists" that is completely based on hindsight. Figuring out BEFORE something is done, who is going perpetuate such a travesty is much harder than what you imply ("just find the isolationists"). The teachers were concerned or scared, and scared of "not following protocol" and reporting anything suspicious. The school leadership were probably the same and perhaps also suspected "mischief", not a bomb, as in "he is trying to scare people here at school" and that is also not allowed. And the officers were also following protocol and while some of the officers or others may have had thoughts that ranged into the "racist" territory, I do not think they caused the situation to become stupid. I firmly think our over zealous "zero-tolerance" and overly fearful reactions to anything "suspicious" at a school is what caused this.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 54):
I'm surprised nobody has started a topic "Americans - Compatible With Science?" yet...  

Actually... I did:
Overreaction: A Clock Or A Bomb? Sciences Problem (by Tugger Sep 16 2015 in Non Aviation)

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 65):
If I were a physics or engineering teacher, I would ask the student where he got hold of this super accurate cesium atomic clock. I have only seen them in books so far.

Well I was more using the image of a "homemade clock" to make the point, but yes they are exceedingly rare. I couldn't find a picture of a tupperware container with wires and a digital clock. I was actually surprised that I couldn't.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 65):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):
or this:

The question would be: What electrolyte did you use to make the two bottle batteries powering the clock?

Yes, but I guarantee if you built one and showed up to security screening at the airport they wouldn't just tell you that you can't bring water bottles past security and to throw out the water....

Tugg
 
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afterburner
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 52):
I am also no fan of the silence from the Muslim community when terrorists strike, no condemnation.
You don't hear nor read nor see any condemnation because you only watch or listen or read the media that don't air or write about condemnations by many Muslims around the worlds.
U.S. Muslims ask why their religion's condemnation of violence often goes unheard



[Edited 2015-09-17 08:04:31]
 
N1120A
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 53):
The race card, the religion card is always paramount in these cases these days

Oh look, the race card card and the new religion card card.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 68):
and that lead to calling the police which also ignored common sense and instead "went by the book".

The "book" would dictate you call in the bomb squad if you truly believe an explosive is there. You don't handcuff a 14 year old boy who brought a clock to school.
 
A332DTW
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:37 pm

When you think of media swarming your home, you usually feel the urge to tell them to go ... themselves. But not Ahmed's dad, he orders them pizza.

http://www.scoopnest.com/user/MuhammadLila/644310618175049728



I read somewhere on here where a poster compared what Christians ask themselves, "WWJD?", and what Muslims would ask themselves, "WWMD?"... and how the two are incompatible.

"He is not a believer who lets himself be satiated while his neighbor goes hungry."
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 68):
if it DID happen to John or Jane Smith, do you think he or she would deserve all the attention currently being displayed? Do YOU think they would get all the invitations? And if not, why?

They should get attention if it was found out to be a science project but not all the invitations because white privilege. If people have not noticed, it is the white people who tend to be violent in this country. If a white child had brought a bomb looking device to school, as principal, I would IMMEDIATELY evacuate campus and call ATF.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 68):
I do not think it was race or faith based but stupidity and overreaction based.

Because of race and faith. The media has conditioned this country to over react to Islamic sounding names and Islamic sounding language. Instead of using our heads, too many people see hijab or burqa or hear "Mohammed" and go off the deep end.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 68):
NO kid deserves to have their love and excitement for science and school stamped on.

Best. Line. Ever.
 
N1120A
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 72):

When you think of media swarming your home, you usually feel the urge to tell them to go ... themselves. But not Ahmed's dad, he orders them pizza.

Class act.
 
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OA412
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 3):
I do not think this is a "Muslim" issue, I think it is a science issue.

I have to disagree. Of course it's a Muslim issue. As many others have already said, if this was a blond haired, blue eyed baptist, we wouldn't be having this convesation.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Every teacher and police thug involved should be terminated, prosecuted and sued.

Seriously. A bunch of absolute fools.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
Embarrassing. If it was a white christian open carrying an AK 47 the same knuckle draggers would be drooling over the wonderful freedom loving patriot teen with every republican presidential candidate falling over themselves for a photo op. When did we become so stupid??

This statement would be funny, if it weren't true. In the words of Darlene McBride:
"The lord loves the NRA. He told me so the other day. He wrote it out in bullets in the sky. He's sittin' up in heaven with his AK-47. He's a rough and ready macho kind of guy. Yee haw!"

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 34):
I am still surprised as why he was suspended 3 days from school.

Don't be. Other than Mohammed's engineering teacher, every ADULT involved here, from the teacher, to the principal, to the police is a moron.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
We have zero tolerance here in schools.

Not for clocks. That said, where exactly has zero tolerance gotten us? We've clogged the court system with cases that should be handled by the schools because zero tolerance. Kids are being prosecuted and registered as sex offenders for touching another kid's butt. When I was in school, the teacher would deal with these sorts of issues, and if needed the kids would be sent to the principal. Now schools use zero tolerance as an excuse to thrust their problems onto others. Rather than sitting down and thinking through what should be dealt with internally and what shouldn't be, they're branding kids with criminal records for doing something many of us did at one point or another.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
I know one thing, when you think your ass is going to get blown off, you are not looking at skin color, nor religion.

  

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
I have to wonder what would have been said on here if this boy was white, blonde, blue eyed?

Nothing, because the kid wouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 58):
The engineering teacher knew what it was.

The only intelligent person in the bunch.

Quoting us330 (Reply 66):
You haven't been to the South or Texas in long, long time if you think it is White Cracker country.

Here's the thing, we know that. And there are a lot of progressives in the South who are doing a lot to change things. Nonetheless, if the rest of the South doesn't want to be labeled a bunch of redneck, cracker ass crackers, people there should probably stop acting like redneck, cracker ass crackers.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):
Islamophobia at it's best

Better to be safe than sorry, especially given some of the things that happen in US schools  

Call it what you like though...

Quoting OA412 (Reply 75):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 3):I do not think this is a "Muslim" issue, I think it is a science issue.

I have to disagree. Of course it's a Muslim issue. As many others have already said, if this was a blond haired, blue eyed baptist, we wouldn't be having this convesation.

You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes  
 
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zckls04
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 75):
I have to disagree. Of course it's a Muslim issue. As many others have already said, if this was a blond haired, blue eyed baptist, we wouldn't be having this convesation.

To be fair, the school haven't yet put forward their complete side of the story. It is possible there's a sequence of events whereby this boy acted sufficiently suspiciously to justify their fears.

All the scenarios I can think of though are spectacularly unlikely. I'm not going to say those claiming racism was not a factor are wrong, but if I was a betting man I know where my money would be.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 68):
you are making this statement "about others" but it you that's making it, not the others.

The administrators thought it was a bomb. Did they call the bomb squad? Did they separate human life from the suspicious device? If they thought it was a bomb, the lives of every person would have been first and foremost. But, he has a Muslim name and dark skin, so they put the suspicious device near the police and the student. If they had really thought it was a bomb, they would have acted completely different.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 75):
Nothing, because the kid wouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

A ridiculous assumption as usual.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 75):
The only intelligent person in the bunch.

I would not say that for sure, but he is the science teacher, and it does not surprise me that he figured it out after he looked at it. Wires and components in a case, is that correct? Hmm, I wonder what would be alarming about that to a regular teacher? Just asking, it did not look like any clock I have ever seen.
 
wingman
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 78):
The administrators thought it was a bomb. Did they call the bomb squad? Did they separate human life from the suspicious device? If they thought it was a bomb, the lives of every person would have been first and foremost. But, he has a Muslim name and dark skin, so they put the suspicious device near the police and the student. If they had really thought it was a bomb, they would have acted completely different.

Exactly, where were the choppers, the ATF, FBI, the TV vans..where were the images of a thousand kids streaming out of the school and into the arms of their desperate parents?

The whole script would work great as a Beavis and Butthead episode.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting afterburner (Reply 69):
You don't hear nor read nor see any condemnation because you only watch or listen or read the media that don't air or write about condemnations by many Muslims around the worlds.

You are quite mistaken, I try to watch and read everyday about current events. Where are these people protesting the terror? I do not see it on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, My local paper, my town paper. I do not watch Al Jazeera all that much, but when I do, I do not see any protests, no protests in the street defending Democracy and Christianity very often. Usually a very small acknowledgement that something is not right. It is usually a few Ministers and Priests and a few Muslim leaders, certainly no large turnout for the acts of terror against even their fellow Muslims, who are killed on a regular basis. Can it be Sectarian hatred among Muslims? I wish someone did know, all I hear is a bunch of Rhetoric about my distrust of people who kill each other as well as Christians.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 57):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 48):It is called zero tolerance. He disrupted the whole school because he did not think out what the ramifications were of bringing a suspicious device to school.

So. You agree with:

I have no young children in school these days, but I do know the policy here is zero tolerance. There are some things that over reach for sure, but by and large, when you look at the insanity of the last few years in US schools, everyone is somewhat paranoid about the possibility of not Muslims exclusively, but insanity by a fellow student, or fellow students who may have known each other all their lives. I may not always agree with the extent, but I do support the method used and needed.

We are a violent society, we are a mixed society and as we have seen, not always with good results. The Europeans are learning and will learn the hard like they always do. The melting pot is a violent place which does not always improve racial, ethnic and religious relations. I say again, I have never felt such warm feelings for people from own side of the world. I like people who do not practice religion that demands submission. Islam (submission) I have to question that demand, and surely it is a demand.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):
Student suspended for 3 days, even when he committed no crime  

Yeah this one was just more embarrassing than anything else. Whats really pathetic is 1) the sense of fear from supposedly the world's super power and 2) He obviously did not need to be suspended for 3 days due to the idiocy of the society he lives in.

It was great that Silicon Valley and the White House were supportive of him, and it did surprise me, but the problem is there are really 2 Americas. The bigoted, scared, idiots and the intelligent, creative and technological people. The immigrants that came here (including yours truly) are quite familiar with this phenomenon.
 
AR385
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
I have no young children in school these days, but I do know the policy here is zero tolerance. There are some things that over reach for sure, but by and large, when you look at the insanity of the last few years in US schools
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
We are a violent society, we are a mixed society and as we have seen, not always with good results.

I see your points. Although I believe there has been some misundertanding of your posts on this thread, given what I read from you regularly, I still think that while what you say is true, it does not exclude the possibility (although I am certain) that racism, bigotry and plain ignorance played a part here.

I am also sure, although again I can´t be certain, that the individual rights of this teen would not have been trampled so callously by the police if he had been your all American, typical teenager. And I dare say that this is not me judging the police. I am just saying what seems to be a fact, in many police departments in the US these days. It is just the way it is. And it is wrong, of course. It also increasingly, seems to be the case with school districts.

And while your points hold true in general, the important thing to me, in this case, is how the other parts (the racism etc.) were, in my opinion, what drove the entire situation.

It also seems to me that given the history of the Mayor and her rabid anti-muslim policies and ideas, police had no trouble doing what they did.
 
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afterburner
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:31 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 81):
Where are these people protesting the terror?

Do Muslims have to have a rally in front of your house (and other houses belong to people that don't believe that Muslims condemn terrorism) to show it?

Here's another article written by a rabbi who knows that Muslim leaders do denounce terror acts done by radical Muslims: Why don’t more moderate Muslims denounce extremism?

Quote:
In fact, mainstream Muslims are speaking out, clearly and consistently. Leaders around the world, many of whom I know personally through my work at the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding, have issued strong and unambiguous statements virtually every time a violent attack has occurred, condemning such acts as immoral and counter to the fundamental precepts of Islam.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
I have no young children in school these days, but I do know the policy here is zero tolerance.

I have no children either. So, why, was ATF and the bomb squad and FBI and CIA not called in if there is zero tolerance? Why was this student not treated the same as blonde hair, blue eye Joe Smith? That is: oh, well... what a silly prank. Get back to class, you scamp.

This is what the Black community is saying: why are unarmed Black people being gunned down by police but armed White people are being detained and driven through Burger King?

If "all lives matter" why, then, is an excelling student (who happens to have a Muslim name) being handcuffed by police? If "all lives matter" why are unarmed Black people being murdered by police? If "all lives matter" why are White lives more precious? Asks the pi*sed off Christian Gay White man?
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 76):
You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes  

How many suicide bombers did you see with a bomb that is a working clock?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 78):
The administrators thought it was a bomb. Did they call the bomb squad? Did they separate human life from the suspicious device? If they thought it was a bomb, the lives of every person would have been first and foremost.

Exactly! If they for as much as one second really believed it was a bomb and didn't evacuate the school, they all need to be fired.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 79):
A ridiculous assumption as usual.

Let me guess, African Americans do not get arrested more than white people either, right?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
, when you look at the insanity of the last few years in US schools

And this is one of those follies in US schools.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
everyone is somewhat paranoid

So get treatment! Don't abuse children.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
The Europeans are learning and will learn the hard like they always do. The melting pot is a violent place which does not always improve racial, ethnic and religious relations.

Cute. Are you a prepper? The EU has more immigrants than the US, that's non-EU citizens, and has had so for a while. Forign born immigrants have about the same percentage in some EU nations as the US.
Seems the melting pot is only a violent place in the US, so you may want to entertain the thought that it is you, not them.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
. I like people who do not practice religion that demands submission. Islam (submission) I have to question that demand, and surely it is a demand.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:7

Yeah, no submission in Christianity. The inventor of the Nurenberg defense, "I was just following orders" Abraham, sure as hell was submissive. Any religion that requires you to believe BS demands submission from you.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:19 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 87):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 76):
You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes  

How many suicide bombers did you see with a bomb that is a working clock?
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 87):
African Americans do not get arrested more than white people either, right?


I do agree that there is way too much White privilege in this country. I do agree that Whites should take a second before screaming "TERRORIST!!" when they see a dark skinned person setting a bag down. That being said, I have seen unattended bags at airports and public transit and public spaces in this country and no one says a thing. Yet, when a dark skinned boy with an Islamic name has a clock, people freak out.

Think about that.

Should I dial 911 when I hear the person in front of me at the bank is not speaking English and named Ahmed? Should I dial 911 when I see the person in front if me at Six Flags is wearing a burqa? Where does it end?

If we are truly a free nation, where does freedom end? As a gay Christian "liberal" White male, I don't care what religion people follow. I don't care what their skin color is. I don't care what gender they identify with. I don't care where their family is from. I ask "who's bag is that?" and "why are they doing that?" If a person drops to their knees in prayer, it has zero effect on me. That is what they want and feel they need to do. While they do that, I am going to look at the pretty shiny thing over there. They are happy, I am happy. America is great!
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:05 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 85):
I do agree that there is way too much White privilege in this country.

White Christian. If a white Christian violates other people's rights, even after exhausting her legal options to the max, she gets a few days in prison and is out again, if a white atheists violates a court order, because she wants real counseling instead of a payer circle, her children get taken away.
http://boingboing.net/2015/09/15/non-religious-woman-who-refuse.html

best regards
Thomas
 
N1120A
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:18 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 72):
Don't be. Other than Mohammed's engineering teacher, every ADULT involved here, from the teacher, to the principal, to the police is a bigoted moron.

Fixed that for you  
Quoting OA412 (Reply 72):
The only intelligent person in the bunch.

Even he was kind of stupid.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 73):
You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes

No, just mass murderers and homicide bombers with big Ryder trucks.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 76):
A ridiculous assumption as usual.

No. I'd say it is pretty spot on.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 79):
I do know the policy here is zero tolerance.

For making clocks?
 
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OA412
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 76):
A ridiculous assumption as usual.

Is it? What about this article?

http://gawker.com/7-kids-not-named-m...ught-homemade-clocks-to-1730999866

Notice that none of the names sound Arabic? What about the kid in that story who brought an actual inert bomb to school and wasn't even suspended?

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 73):
You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes

I don't recall any suicide bombings in the US or the last time a kid blew up a school in this country either...

Quoting afterburner (Reply 82):
Do Muslims have to have a rally in front of your house (and other houses belong to people that don't believe that Muslims condemn terrorism) to show it?

Listening to some people, even that wouldn't be enough to convince them that Muslims really do condemn acts of terror.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 87):
Fixed that for you  

Haha touche!

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 74):

I agree with you that they haven't yet released the full side of their story, but I just don't see it plausibly going down any other road.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 88):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 73):
You don't see too many suicide bombers with blonde hair and blue eyes

I don't recall any suicide bombings in the US or the last time a kid blew up a school in this country either...

There is a German guy fitting this description sitting in prison in Israel. He is a convert, and as usual for converts, became radicalised and joined a Plaestinian Islamist group (IIRC HAMAS). They groomed him because of his non-Arab looks to be a suicide bomber for a high profile target, but he got caught before.

Jan
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 88):

Listening to some people, even that wouldn't be enough to convince them that Muslims really do condemn acts of terror.

or call the cops because they feel threatened.

Best regards
Thomas
 
D L X
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 13):

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
Yeah, right. Because if it had been Billy-Bob Smith, a blond, blue-eyed "all American" boy, the school would not have called the police and told them he'd made a bomb in class.

Honestly? Yes, they probably would have.

I tinkered with electronics like crazy when I was a kid. Hell, if you went to a Radio Shack store, you saw all sorts of kids there getting ready to tinker.

I brought those things to school and didn't get arrested. I got praised. But I'm not Muslim.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 81):
I see your points. Although I believe there has been some misundertanding of your posts on this thread, given what I read from you regularly, I still think that while what you say is true, it does not exclude the possibility (although I am certain) that racism, bigotry and plain ignorance played a part here.

That maybe a possibility, and yet it may not be what happened at all. I have read of speculation that he did it as a test, as a challenge to the system which is common among bright kids. I myself never challenged the system  
Quoting AR385 (Reply 81):
I am also sure, although again I can´t be certain, that the individual rights of this teen would not have been trampled so callously by the police if he had been your all American, typical teenager. And I dare say that this is not me judging the police. I am just saying what seems to be a fact, in many police departments in the US these days. It is just the way it is. And it is wrong, of course. It also increasingly, seems to be the case with school districts.

That is very common in the US. We have also had lawsuits by very wealthy white parents in very wealthy white communities here, make accusations against the police for these same reasons. It seems Attorney parents are prone to such. Let us remove the Muslim element from this argument. We have many black and other minorities here on the police departments now, they are still hated, still assaulted, and sometimes killed by people of the same minority who bitch about the police and their tactics. It is the uniform, the symbol of authority which is hated, and they will hate anyone wearing it. When you deal with violent people of one group over and over and over, no matter what your color, you begin to hate them back. It does happen among teachers and staff who deal with minorities everyday in public inner-city schools. As I said, the melting pot is a violent place, no matter where.






[quote=AR385,reply=81]It also seems to me that given the history of the Mayor and her rabid anti-muslim policies and ideas, police had no trouble doing what they did.






I would be a fool to deny this, anything is possible, maybe the Mayor is related to or knows a soldier like the one I saw today at lunch with his arm and leg blown off. Maybe the Police have served over there as many have done. There have been hundreds of Police here who are in, or have been in the service over there in the Middle East. I served many years ago, but I can understand human emotions in these cases. It is the same when policemen are gunned down, the same emotion, the same dislike of certain people. It will never change, it never has. It is built in to our nature for most of us.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:43 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 88):
Is it? What about this article?

http://gawker.com/7-kids-not-named-m...ught-homemade-clocks-to-1730999866

Notice that none of the names sound Arabic? What about the kid in that story who brought an actual inert bomb to school and wasn't even suspended

You cannot be serious. Science fairs, school projects, 1999. Man that is desperation at its best by the reporter.    
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:46 am

[quote=tommy1808,reply=90]Listening to some people, even that wouldn't be enough to convince them that Muslims really do condemn acts of terror.
or call the cops because they feel threatened.



I did admit a few do, so few it is ridiculous. Of course they will use the system to protect themselves. They are experts at it, they may not like the system, but they sure know how to use it when it suits.
 
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AAlaxfan
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:22 am

I did not read through the entire thread but, correct me if I'm wrong, this is what happened:
1. Student brought a homemade clock to school.
2. Student showed said clock to science/ engineering instructor.
3. Instructor, who has knowledge of how this type of device should look, says good job. Don't show it to anyone else.
4. Student shows it to English teacher.
5. English teacher has no idea what he/she is looking at panics.
6. Principal and police called. Student detained / arrested because nobody knows what this is except student and science teacher.

My take.
If a person who knows what my contraption is, and tells me don't show anybody else, he has a reason. If I show it, there may be a consequence that I'm not expecting. I don't think race had anything to do with this, but the consequence of this happening in today's zero tolerance school environment did. Common sense has been taken out and replaced by zero tolerance rules. It's time we went back to using our mind for the purpose it was made....Rational Decisions.
 
A332DTW
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:28 am

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 95):

Actually the clock alarm went off while in class, was asked what it was, and that's when everyone lost their mind and the kid got handcuffed.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14666
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 92):
As I said, the melting pot is a violent place, no matter where.

You don't get around much, do you? Most melting pots are in no way violent.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 92):
I have read of speculation that he did it as a test, as a challenge to the system which is common among bright kids.

Damn, you guys are desperate. I think they should sue you for libel.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 92):
It will never change, it never has. It is built in to our nature for most of us.

Speak for yourself, most of us have no problem separating guilty parties from the rest. Hyperactive Agent Detection is a time saving device build in by evolution, but humans have the wonderful ability to overcome that, as it is mostly usefull for snap decissions. Animals probably can't, but we can. And most people do.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:01 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 38):
Somewhat like a bomb? This was a digital clock.
Quoting casinterest (Reply 40):
You missed the part, as did the instructor, where the kid said it was a clock.



C'mon, if you can't understand where some people may have been at least slightly concerned at first glance, I don't know what to tell you.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:40 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 98):
C'mon, if you can't understand where some people may have been at least slightly concerned at first glance, I don't know what to tell you.

...and where is Wald...ah... are the explosives?

Of course... it is a hoax bomb. One that keeps time, and has an alarm function..... riiiight.

Best regards
Thomas

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