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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 99):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 98):C'mon, if you can't understand where some people may have been at least slightly concerned at first glance, I don't know what to tell you.
...and where is Wald...ah... are the explosives?

Of course... it is a hoax bomb. One that keeps time, and has an alarm function..... riiiight.

Ask the average person what a "time bomb" looks like and then show them this picture. I'm guessing "Where are the explosives?" won't be their first question.

And as far as keeping time, having an alarm function, etc. are concerned, if you didn't preface what they saw with, "What you're about to see is an alarm clock," it's completely reasonable for the average person to look at that gadget and NOT immediately think, "Yep, alarm clock. Definitely an alarm clock."
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:55 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 100):
it's completely reasonable for the average person to look at that gadget and NOT immediately think, "Yep, alarm clock. Definitely an alarm clock."

It is still far more reasonable than thinking "it is a bomb". And it's not like the boy didn't tell them it is a clock. I am sure he also could have explained in great detail how exactly it works, well, it would probably have been beyond the comprehension of anyone in the room but the kid, otherwise it would not have gone down that way.
Is being scientific illiterate a requirement for teachers in Texas or just acceptable?

Best regards
Thomas
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:12 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 101):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 100): it's completely reasonable for the average person to look at that gadget and NOT immediately think, "Yep, alarm clock. Definitely an alarm clock."
It is still far more reasonable than thinking "it is a bomb". And it's not like the boy didn't tell them it is a clock. I am sure he also could have explained in great detail how exactly it works, well, it would probably have been beyond the comprehension of anyone in the room but the kid, otherwise it would not have gone down that way.
Is being scientific illiterate a requirement for teachers in Texas or just acceptable?

Thing is, he told one teacher it was a clock. Then after that teacher said, "Y'know, you may not want to plug that in," or something to that effect, he went into a completely different classroom with a completely different teacher, didn't explain at all what it was, and just plugged it in and set the timer.

Yeah, that whole "far more reasonable" thing at this point is really geared toward going, "Um, what the heck is THAT?" instead of thinking, "Huh...clock. Cool."

Oh dear.....this may have all been a setup.

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...hmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:22 am

Only in Hollywood has a time bomb a big, flashing display. You watch too many stupid movies.

Chemical time bomb fuze (WW2, British):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Chemischer.Bleistift.Zeitzuender.jpg/1024px-Chemischer.Bleistift.Zeitzuender.jpg

There are so many possibilities of fuzing IEDs, but I'm not going to describe them here. Also, most lay people will not recognise even commercial explosives, not even to speak of military ones. Just as a hint: They don't often come as red sticks wrapped with wax paper.

Jan
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 98):

Enquiring minds would like to know, if the school and/or police even considered the device MIGHT be a bomb, why wasn't the school evacuated, and the bomb squad, FBI and CIA called?     
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:56 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 102):
Oh dear.....this may have all been a setup.

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...hmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/

Ah, thank you for the good laugh. ...

Quote:
I’m curious, why would “looking suspicious” have even crossed his mind before this whole event unfolded, if he was truly showing off a hobby project, something so innocuous as an alarm clock.

Because he is a smart enough kid, knowing where he lives and that 1 out of 3 people he talks to believe he wants sharia law in the US.
Maybe you should move to a place where a lot of people hate you and see how much you think about not being suspicious?

If he wanted to bring a bomb, why didn't he just bring a bomb? If it is supposed to be a hoax bomb, why no hoax explosives.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 103):
Just as a hint: They don't often come as red sticks wrapped with wax paper.

*pssssst* they start arresting kindergarten kids if the "Oh my god, a muslim terrorist" folk finds out that plastic explosives look like Play'Doh. You can even get lots of colors, Semtex-H is orange, Semtex 1A is red, NP10 is black, C4 is white, Knaverit S1 is light orange, PE7 is beige.... and you can even hide the timer and fuse inside...



ISIS Kindergarten IED Kit Pro ...

And it is not like they are difficult to make, even something powerful as RDX can be made at home. If you like to live dangerous, but a wannabe martyr probably wouldn't care that much.

Best regards
Thomas
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:17 pm

If we'd ever meet in privacy, I can tell a few things I have learned during my blasting courses and my chemistry lessons later in university. But I don't want to be accused of spreading bomb making instructions on the net.

When I used Semtex 1A (after it got introduced here shortly after the Wall fell), it was still a black, sticky stuff, smelling of kerosene. We received a test sample of fifty kilos or so and tried it out together with Berlin's police anti-terrorist unit.
Did you ever hear of Resaflex? This is a Russian nitroglycerine / blasting gelantine explosive for metal work. It comes either as linear shaped charges or as tan matts looking like rubber matts, in various thicknesses (used for explosive plating of metal).

In Germany by law all civilian high explosives (detonating, not deflagrating) need to be dyed red, if possible (some explosives contain aluminium powder and are naturally black), or sold in red containers.
We also used the old "Sprengmasse Formbar DM12" of the Bundeswehr, a PETN based plastic explosive, which looked and smelled like marzipan, even mice and rats ate it (but poisoned themselves on it). it got replaced by a pink version, which smells of kerosene or diesel fuel and comes in two versions, a military one and a civilian one (different packaging). Very useful for blasting steel structures.

I used linear shaped charges called "Blade" and made by Royal Ordnance in the UK to demolish the old AFN transmission tower in Berlin Zehlendorf. They also looked very unlike any typical explosive as shown on TV.

The old 200 gramm TNT blocks looked like soap bars (except for the hole for the blasting cap).

Jan
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 106):
If we'd ever meet in privacy, I can tell a few things I have learned during my blasting courses and my chemistry lessons later in university. But I don't want to be accused of spreading bomb making instructions on the net.

I know what you mean. Back in the 90s the University of Münster had a chemistry professor that was obsessed with explosives, he even used "lethality" as a quantifier. I did end up switching to economics after two semesters though, too many attendance required classes to reconcile financing university and actually going to university.
And well, I grew up next to the WTD91, growing up with regular artillery fire and explosions sure peaks interst for that kind of stuff.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 106):
They also looked very unlike any typical explosive as shown on TV.

aside of the 100 or so shows about demolition. Although even they are often over dramatized .... I guess reality is too boring.
Well, and Mythbusters of course 

best regards
Thomas
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 107):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 106):
They also looked very unlike any typical explosive as shown on TV.

aside of the 100 or so shows about demolition. Although even they are often over dramatized .... I guess reality is too boring.

Exactly. Leaning for days on a air drill, drilling shot holes and eating dust while doing it. Or making hundreds, if not thousands of small charges (e.g. 50 gramms each) and loading them into the shot holes. It gets quite boring after a while.
And don't forget about the bureaucracy and the paperwork involved.
Been there, got the t-shirt. Except for the moment when you got the exploder wound up, your mate counts down on the walky talky and you wonder if you have forgotten anything, just when you are about to press the button.

Jan
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 98):
if you can't understand where some people may have been at least slightly concerned at first glance

Again: If they had really thought it was a bomb, why was the school not evacuated? Why was the bomb squad not called? If they had really thought it was a bomb, why did they continue to put the lives of police and children at risk?
 
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AAlaxfan
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 109):
Again: If they had really thought it was a bomb, why was the school not evacuated? Why was the bomb squad not called? If they had really thought it was a bomb, why did they continue to put the lives of police and children at risk?

Maybe because the science teacher came over and said "Oh, that. That's _______'s homemade clock. He showed me that earlier. Neat contraption. Not a threat."
Why was he handcuffed and arrested. Because common sense is being removed from "ZERO" tolerance laws. The race, nationality, skin color, religion, hair length, ETC. does not matter. Bring something even remotely possible to being a threat and you're getting new bracelets. For Christ's sake, we've seen students arrested and suspended over nail clippers .

edit: punctuation

[Edited 2015-09-19 10:23:54]
 
Maverick623
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 110):
Maybe because the science teacher came over and said "Oh, that. That's _______'s homemade clock. He showed me that earlier. Neat contraption. Not a threat."

Nope. The statement by the school and the mayor of that ass-backwards town specifically cite the kid "not being forthcoming about the nature of the device", and handcuffing him for "his and the officer's safety".

What safety? He's a scrawny kid with no record of behavioral issues, so little threat of physical violence. Obviously they knew it wasn't a bomb, otherwise they'd evacuate the school.

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 110):
Why was he handcuffed and arrested. Because common sense is being removed from "ZERO" tolerance laws.

He was arrested for being smarter than every single adult he dealt with that day (except for his science teacher, who was smart enough to know his colleagues are knuckle-draggers).

Zero tolerance hysteria is solely a product of a few idiots and yellow journalism. Administrators merely use it as a tool to keep totalitarian control over their schools. They know what they are doing.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 111):
The statement by the school and the mayor of that ass-backwards town specifically cite the kid "not being forthcoming about the nature of the device"

His science teacher saw and knew it was a clock. How is that not forthcoming? One instructor knew and understood there was no threat. Logic and reason. So, why was Mohamed Ahmed handcuffed?
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 97):
You don't get around much, do you? Most melting pots are in no way violent.

How is it working in London? Ask that the soldier killed on the street. How is it working in Paris, ask the Police Officer shot to death while he lay on the sidewalk. Ask the cartoonists shot to death in their work place. Ask the People in Australia, in New York, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt. Ask the children in Russia at the school. All melting pots after all there are so many different sects which like to kill each other, and do not live together because the melting pot does not work because of religious, sectarian violence. You were saying?

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 97):
Damn, you guys are desperate. I think they should sue you for libel.

Kind of naïve, which does not surprise me.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 97):
Speak for yourself, most of us have no problem separating guilty parties from the rest. Hyperactive Agent Detection is a time saving device build in by evolution, but humans have the wonderful ability to overcome that, as it is mostly usefull for snap decissions. Animals probably can't, but we can. And most people do.

Well , you brought the word animal into the conversation, so I will not have to when describing many humans. Evolution trumps religion in most cases, but not in all. Religion blindly followed can overcome the traits of humans to treat each other like humans. Have you not noticed that?


   
 
Mir
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 98):
C'mon, if you can't understand where some people may have been at least slightly concerned at first glance, I don't know what to tell you.

There's a long way between people being slightly concerned, or even moderately concerned, and the school suspending him and the police arresting him. There are many opportunities to get off that road along the way. This isn't about how people shouldn't be suspicious about the thing, it's about how those suspicions shouldn't end up with a kid in handcuffs when it could be easily established that the thing doesn't pose a threat.

-Mir
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 114):
There are many opportunities to get off that road along the way. This isn't about how people shouldn't be suspicious about the thing, it's about how those suspicions shouldn't end up with a kid in handcuffs when it could be easily established that the thing doesn't pose a threat.

The system is poisoned and distorted because of the happenings over many years, Paranoia is now induced. The arresting of one boy, black white, brown, will not restore the balance. It is time to realize the reality of life in 2015. He was not killed, he was not beheaded, he is alive and going to see our President. Whether he deserved any of it or he did, we will never know. Life as we now know it. We do know the circumstances which got us here for sure.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
All melting pots after all there are so many different sects which like to kill each other, and do not live together because the melting pot does not work because of religious, sectarian violence.

Don't forget misinformation. Why are people reluctant to hire someone named Mohammed Abdul or Juan Martinez? Don't you think that leads to frustration? It has already been proven that a resume with a white sounding name will get more responses than a resume with a foreign sounding name. How does that not cause resentment? How does that not start things like Black Lives Matter?
 
Mir
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 115):
t is time to realize the reality of life in 2015.

No, it's time to rebel against that and decide that we're not going to let petty fear ruin our society. What message does it send to the would-be inventors out there that their creations may be viewed suspiciously and could land them in jail if they try to show them to people? We need to encourage invention, not discourage it. That's why he's going to see the president - it's not some consolation gift, it's to send a message to people like him.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 115):
He was not killed, he was not beheaded, he is alive and going to see our President.

Doesn't matter. You don't get to excuse people being screwed with unfairly because others stepped in to compensate.

-Mir
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 117):
No, it's time to rebel against that and decide that we're not going to let petty fear ruin our society. What message does it send to the would-be inventors out there that their creations may be viewed suspiciously and could land them in jail if they try to show them to people? We need to encourage invention, not discourage it. That's why he's going to see the president - it's not some consolation gift, it's to send a message to people like him.

I am not so sure it is petty fear as you call it. I do not think us spending billions to fight off the terrorists is because of petty fear. This boy was caught in the aftermath of what certain people have done and continue to try to accomplish against any Western Democratic Christian Nation. That is the destruction of our societies, and the subjugation of us, or our descendants. Now if that is petty fear, I cannot see it. Our death toll is certainly not petty.

This boy is safe and whole, a learning experience for him. This is not a nice world. He is safe here, and he should appreciate that, and so should his family. Look at what he went through here, and look at Europe. Minor shit in the scheme of things, something to talk about later. 15 minutes of fame.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 109):
If they had really thought it was a bomb, why was the school not evacuated?
Quoting Mir (Reply 114):
There's a long way between people being slightly concerned, or even moderately concerned, and the school suspending him and the police arresting him.

Obviously I can't speak on behalf of the school or the police, but I'd imagine they'd say that the school wasn't evacuated because they truly thought it was an explosive device, however the punishment (suspension, arrest) was based on the thought there may have been intent to create the impression it was an explosive device.

Again, I wasn't there. I wasn't part of this. But from what I've seen and read, interviews given, and the photos of the device itself, it's not unreasonable to see where the school or teachers may have thought it was something OTHER than a clock, and to those who knew better, that they may have thought there was intent to create the impression it was something other than a clock.

Jumping to "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACISM!!!!!!" is not the right conclusion, if you ask me.
 
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seb146
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:08 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 118):
Western Democratic Christian Nation.

We live in a republic not ruled by any holy text.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 118):
This boy is safe and whole, a learning experience for him.

He learned that dark skinned people are suspicious and should be in handcuffs. He is far from safe in the south. If he wants to expand his mind and learn things, he needs to live in Seattle or San Francisco or New York. Not Texas.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 118):
Western Democratic Christian Nation.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 120):
We live in a republic not ruled by any holy text.

Not just that, you live in a country that very specifically is in no way Christian.

Quote:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

Treaty of Tripoli

best regards
Thomas
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
Well , you brought the word animal into the conversation, so I will not have to when describing many humans.

All humans are animals, that's just a fact.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
Evolution trumps religion in most cases, but not in all.

Evolution is fact and religion is made up but in the competition of a good story then I agree that religion probably trumps evolution as it does in subjugation of the masses but as a force for good they 're difficult to compare.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
Religion blindly followed can overcome the traits of humans to treat each other like humans. Have you not noticed that?

I definitely have noticed that, religion has caused so many normal people to do inhumane things that its a wonder people still get indoctrinated in different religions from a young age.

Fred
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 105):
Ah, thank you for the good laugh. ...

So glad I can amuse you. But if you're seriously denying the points made by that author, you're the funny one.

And not in a good way.

Seriously, re-read this part:

Why did he choose a pencil box, one that looks like a miniature briefcase no less, as an enclosure for a clock? It’s awful hard to see the clock with the case closed. On the other hand, with the case open, it’s awful dangerous to have an exposed power transformer sitting near the snooze button (unless, perhaps his invention was to stop serial-snooze-button pressers by giving them a dangerous electrical shock!)

So again, I’m pointing all this out – about the specifics of the clock – not to pick on the poor kid. I’m picking on us, our culture, and our media. I don’t even care about the clock itself at this point.

If we stop and think – was it really such a ridiculous reaction from the teacher and the police in the first place? How many school shootings and incidents of violence have we had, where we hear afterwards “this could have been prevented, if only we paid more attention to the signs!” Teachers are taught to be suspicious and vigilant. Ahmed wasn’t accused of making a bomb – he was accused of making a look-alike, a hoax. And be honest with yourself, a big red digital display with a bunch of loose wires in a brief-case looking box is awful like a Hollywood-style representation of a bomb.


What good is an alarm clock that has its display and input controls on the INSIDE of a case designed to close securely? Especially considering that when opened to show the digital display, you see open circuitry, wires, a power transformer, and other electronics that could easily be mistaken for an explosive device by the average person?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:49 am

Hey, kid.

You have brown skin and your name is foreign.

But...

...you totally science. I dig that. You can science with me any time.  
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
If we stop and think – was it really such a ridiculous reaction from the teacher and the police in the first place? How many school shootings and incidents of violence have we had, where we hear afterwards “this could have been prevented, if only we paid more attention to the signs!” Teachers are taught to be suspicious and vigilant. Ahmed wasn’t accused of making a bomb – he was accused of making a look-alike, a hoax. And be honest with yourself, a big red digital display with a bunch of loose wires in a brief-case looking box is awful like a Hollywood-style representation of a bomb.

Okay, i will go with this, now if there were any chance that this was a bomb even as a hoax why was the school not evacuated, why was the bomb squad not called?
Also after explaining to the police and the school that this was a clock, why was he arrested and handcuffed?
Did he at any time said that he had a bomb, no, so where did the hoax part came from?
Why was he suspended even after all things were cleared?
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
Seriously, re-read this part:

gladly so, i can laugh about a good joke many times....

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
Why did he choose a pencil box, one that looks like a miniature briefcase no less, as an enclosure for a clock?

Having build all sort of stuff as a kid myself, that is easy: he needed a case and he had that one/it had about the right size and it was cheap.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
It’s awful hard to see the clock with the case closed.

It is not a bug, it is a feature. My gf puts aluminum stickers on all standby/power LEDs in the bedroom because even a little light keeps her from falling asleep.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
On the other hand, with the case open, it’s awful dangerous to have an exposed power transformer sitting near the snooze button (unless, perhaps his invention was to stop serial-snooze-button pressers by giving them a dangerous electrical shock!)

Ah, i got my first electrical shock from a radio alarm clock with a faulty power cable. Memories....
He wasn´t arrested for violating UL standards. Now, constructive criticism would have been to ask parents and the science teacher why they didn´t advise him how to convert it to battery power, which would pretty much remove all that danger. However, he did move the 12/24 hour button to the outside, but not the snooze button. Stands to reason that he doesn´t use the snooze button, or he hasn´t figured out yet where to solder the switch on, or did get around doing it. Maybe he just unplugs it when he wakes up? Only he can tell us that, but considering he is 14 years old he probably just did think it through to that point.
Heck, at age 14 we were grinding fertilizer to powder in my parents coffee-mill to build rockets out of plumbing tubes and fused them with light-bulb filaments openly connected to 220V..... but i am sure you never, never ever did anything reckless as a kid, right?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
If we stop and think

The first reasonable thing he writes. Eureka!

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
And be honest with yourself, a big red digital display with a bunch of loose wires in a brief-case looking box is awful like a Hollywood-style representation of a bomb.

Only if you want to see a bomb. If you look at Hollywood bombs, they all come with some sort of explosive. If he had put 2 pounds of Play'Doh in the case and connect that to some wires, yes, then you´d have a case. Without it, it is just a case of dumb. They also don´t show 00:00 when you plug them in, that would sort of defeat the purpose of putting a timer on a bomb, and also ordinarily don´t count up when under power.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
and other electronics that could easily be mistaken for an explosive device by the average person?

So, no. Only a person that wants to see a bomb can see a bomb w/o explosive blocks.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
Especially considering that when opened to show the digital display, you see open circuitry, wires

Open wires are a very good reason to put it in a box that closes securely. If you check the electronic devises in your house, you´d find that they are all screwed, welded, soldered or glued shut. If you open your computer, you may find wires, open contacts and in some cases, a Display. A POST display:



I never realized Gigabyte was in the business of bomb mass production.

best regards
Thomas
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:32 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
How is it working in London?

You do know we've had terrorist attacks in London for decades. Hell, the first bomb on the Underground was in 1897 - long before most people had even seen a Muslim.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 125):
if there were any chance that this was a bomb even as a hoax why was the school not evacuated, why was the bomb squad not called?

Exactly. Many of us have been asking the same question. It's never been answered.   
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:12 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 125):
Okay, i will go with this, now if there were any chance that this was a bomb even as a hoax why was the school not evacuated, why was the bomb squad not called?

Just guessing, but I'm assuming that once someone like a school resource officer (a police officer) determined it wasn't actually a bomb, they elected not to evacuate. But that's just a guess on my part.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 125):
Also after explaining to the police and the school that this was a clock, why was he arrested and handcuffed?

Again, just guessing, but they probably did so to get him to the police station, question him and determine intent.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 126):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):It’s awful hard to see the clock with the case closed.
It is not a bug, it is a feature.

  

Now who's the funny one? C'mon maaaan.....

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 126):
If he had put 2 pounds of Play'Doh in the case and connect that to some wires, yes, then you´d have a case.

Right, because all bombs are plastic explosives.   

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 126):
Open wires are a very good reason to put it in a box that closes securely.

Now tell me why you'd have open wires on something that isn't closed securely, nor designed to be that way when fulfilling its (supposed) purpose as an alarm clock?
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4194
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:57 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 128):
Now tell me why you'd have open wires on something that isn't closed securely, nor designed to be that way when fulfilling its (supposed) purpose as an alarm clock?

He didn't make it to sit next to his bed and use it for its functional purpose, he made it because he wanted to make it. Does he want to break it when he takes it to school? Probably not so he puts it in a box that keeps it secure and safe. Why isn't it secured? because otherwise he gets to school and says " look at my clock, I promise its in there but for safety reasons you are just going to have to believe me". Get him on a charge of not conforming with UL regs.

Fred
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 128):
Right, because all bombs are plastic explosives

No matter why explosive you use, it won´t be weightless and transparent.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 128):
Now who's the funny one? C'mon maaaan.....

Just because you can´t imagine something doesn´t mean it isn´t true. Innocent until proven guilty.... oh, no.. right, he is a Muslim, forget i said that.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 128):
Now tell me why you'd have open wires on something that isn't closed securely, nor designed to be that way when fulfilling its (supposed) purpose as an alarm clock?

Paraphrasing his father: "he wakes up to it every morning." Apparently it does work for its purpose. He isn´t an electrical engineer, he isn´t selling it as product to the general public. He doesn´t need any justification why he was satisfied with his design.

And btw.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 126):
i am sure you never, never ever did anything reckless as a kid, right?

best regards
Thomas
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:57 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):

How is it working in London? Ask that the soldier killed on the street. How is it working in Paris, ask the Police Officer shot to death while he lay on the sidewalk. Ask the cartoonists shot to death in their work place. Ask the People in Australia, in New York, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt. Ask the children in Russia at the school.

How about you count to 500 million, rough guess how many people life in those areas, and when you are done in about 20 years and about 125 -150 million of them have died, we can discuss how significant those events really are.
Heck, i actually did have Muslim (OMG!) refugees (OMG!!!) threaten to slit my throat in my sleep twice, once in 1991 or 92 in Esterwegen, where a bunch of teens from Albania treatend to sneak in our Whitsun camp and slit everyones throat in our sleep (~200 people, ambitious bastards), called the police, had a few riot police men set up camp and kept on trucking like they didn´t exist and in 1996 or 97 during summer camp in Butzbach, when one of "my" kids threatened to slit all our throats in our sleep and i still slept just fine in the same tent.
I suggest: grow a pair, fear is life debilitating.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 113):
All melting pots after all there are so many different sects which like to kill each other, and do not live together because the melting pot does not work because of religious, sectarian violence. You were saying?

I was saying that you are wrong.

"Foreign-born individuals exhibit remarkably low levels of involvement in crime across their life course." (Bianca Bersani, University of Massachusetts, 2014. Published in Justice Quarterly.)


I live in a city with 25% migrants, in a borough with 47% migrants, i just looked it up to not go from memory. No riots, no sharia law, no one screaming at girls for being slutty, no shooting, no looting, a murder rate you wouldn´t dare to dream about...... yeah, this melting pot is like a civil war.

best regards
Thomas
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 119):
Obviously I can't speak on behalf of the school or the police, but I'd imagine they'd say that the school wasn't evacuated because they truly thought it was an explosive device, however the punishment (suspension, arrest) was based on the thought there may have been intent to create the impression it was an explosive device.

If there was the thought to create the impression of an explosive device, not showing it to people is a strange way to go about it. The teacher only found out about it because it happened to beep in the middle of class - were it not for that they'd never have known.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 119):
Again, I wasn't there. I wasn't part of this. But from what I've seen and read, interviews given, and the photos of the device itself, it's not unreasonable to see where the school or teachers may have thought it was something OTHER than a clock

No, it's not. But let's play that in a rational world:

Teacher has suspicions, teacher notifies supervisors. Supervisors pull the kid into the principal's office, and they ask him what the thing is. They ask him to describe how it works, what each component is and what it does. They realize that they have someone on the faculty who knows about these things, so they bring him or her down to give an opinion. Then, satisfied that it's just a clock that he built, they apologize to him for disrupting his day, ask for his understanding that they have to investigate those sorts of things, and send him back to class. Nobody gets arrested, nobody gets suspended, none of this ever makes the news.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 118):
This is not a nice world. He is safe here, and he should appreciate that, and so should his family.

That sort of thinking will lead to the economic ruin of this country. "Don't innovate, don't create things and show them off, just go along with the flow, because at least you're safe." People with the choice to will go elsewhere, where their abilities are appreciated. And where they'll still be safe.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 118):
Our death toll is certainly not petty.

Our terrorism death toll is remarkably petty considering the size of the country. You're more likely to get struck by lightning than you are to be killed by terrorism, and I don't see us freaking out whenever a thunderstorm comes along. Sure, we take reasonable precautions - don't stand out in an open field, don't lean up against a tall flagpole, but if we approached lightning the way we do terrorism we'd have mandatory "shelter in place" rules every time a thunderstorm passed through.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 123):
What good is an alarm clock that has its display and input controls on the INSIDE of a case designed to close securely?

Why does the clock have to be useful? That's not the point of it. If the kid wanted a clock to be useful, he could have gone and bought one for very little money. The point was for him to have a working clock that he made. Aesthetics and usefulness are way down the priorities list there.

-Mir
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:35 pm

So it took me a few days to finally get around to this story as something smelled fishy and it didn't seem we had heard all the facts... turns out I was right to wait. The more information comes out, the more it appears this was nothing more than a work of agit-prop set up by the kid's father, a known muslim activist with connections to CAIR (the U.S. arm of the Muslim Brotherhood). Of course a willing media bought into the story hook, line and sinker, and will not do any form of self-analysis or retraction.

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 69):
When you think of media swarming your home, you usually feel the urge to tell them to go ... themselves. But not Ahmed's dad, he orders them pizza.

When you set this whole thing up from the start, as he apparently did, you want to milk this for what it's worth, not make it go away.
 
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SOBHI51
Topic Author
Posts: 3950
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RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 133):

Hmmm. Do you have any sources to your allegations?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 133):
When you set this whole thing up from the start, as he apparently did, you want to milk this for what it's worth, not make it go away

So American media can be bought with a few Pizza's?
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 134):
Hmmm. Do you have any sources to your allegations?
http://www.infowars.com/fake-hate-is-clock-kid-furor-all-a-big-setup/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...lock-is-1970s-digital-alarm-clock/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/17/...ts-its-about-pretend-islamophobia/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ohamed-and-the-islamophobia-clock/

No definitive proof yet but seeming increasingly likely that even Obama and Mark Zuckerberg fell for a well-orchestrated hoax...

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 134):
So American media can be bought with a few Pizza's?

Doesn't even take that much, if you happen to be aligned with the message they want to listen. There was a recent example of a guy caught in an undercover camera claiming something along the lines of "We need to be very careful with this, as if this shows up in the cover of the New York Times we will look really bad" (basically admitting that what he was doing was wrong) and the actual New York Times refused to cover even that, as he represented an organization they defend with tooth and nail.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 133):
When you set this whole thing up from the start, as he apparently did, you want to milk this for what it's worth, not make it go away.

worthy of Ethan Hunt. He "planned" that his no one in his school would be smart enough to recognize a clock as a clock, that they would call the cops, and none of them would just laughing and tell them that they are being stupid, and arrests the kid.

Master plan! Of course in the real world that only works when you arrange for your victim to only have one option.
They had all options.

That hypophysis falls flat in the face of logic. Occam's razor is a useful tool.

best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Topic Author
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 135):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 134):
Hmmm. Do you have any sources to your allegations?
http://www.infowars.com/fake-hate-is-clock-kid-furor-all-a-big-setup/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...lock-is-1970s-digital-alarm-clock/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/17/...ts-its-about-pretend-islamophobia/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...lock/

Excellent sources really.    Couldn't you find anymore right wing sources?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 135):
No definitive proof yet

So why bring it up? If it was not proven why this?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 133):
turns out I was right to wait. The more information comes out, the more it appears this was nothing more than a work of agit-prop set up by the kid's father
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22258
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 135):
http://www.infowars.com/fake-hate-is-clock-kid-furor-all-a-big-setup/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...lock-is-1970s-digital-alarm-clock/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/17/...ts-its-about-pretend-islamophobia/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ohamed-and-the-islamophobia-clock/

Conspiracy theory websites are not valid sources. I love how infowars uses the meme with a fake "suitcase bomb." Too much "Mission Impossible," not enough reality.

No suitcase bomb has so many circuit boards unless they want it to put on a choreographed pyrotechnics show before it blows up. An IED needs a switch, a battery, and, most importantly, an explosive.

REAL time bombs don't tick or beep or have a countdown display on them. That would be mighty stupid.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:22 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 138):
No suitcase bomb has so many circuit boards unless they want it to put on a choreographed pyrotechnics show before it blows up. An IED needs a switch, a battery, and, most importantly, an explosive.

REAL time bombs don't tick or beep or have a countdown display on them. That would be mighty stupid.

And that is why the school was not evacuated, as it would have been if anyone thought it was an actual bomb - he was arrested because he was not cooperative with authorities, for having a fake bomb (the operative word here being FAKE). Same as he would have been arrested if he had a realistic-looking fake weapon, as so many people have been.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 139):
he was arrested because he was not cooperative with authorities, for having a fake bomb (the operative word here being FAKE).

wow, now the kid telling the truth and nothing but the truth, "it's a clock", is not cooperative with the authorities?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 139):
. Same as he would have been arrested if he had a realistic-looking fake weapon, as so many people have been.

He had a very realistic clock that looks in no way like a bomb or a hollywood fabrication of a bomb.

Best regards
Thomas
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 135):
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ohamed-and-the-islamophobia-clock/

"When questioned about what the device was, Mohamed wouldn’t answer."

Wow, starting off with a lie, that has class. I guess they are at the point to "know" that whatever they make up with be swallowed whole.

Best regards
Thomas
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 140):
He had a very realistic clock that looks in no way like a bomb or a hollywood fabrication of a bomb.

It was a very realistic clock because it WAS an actual clock. All the kid did is take an old alarm clock, disassemble it from the case and stick it inside a briefcase. Now why the hell would you do that if not just to cause a stir? Does it make it more practical as an alarm clock? No it does not.

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...hmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=224&v=CEmSwJTqpgY

https://imgur.com/drGpVJL

Heck, even Bill Maher and Chris Matthews (people not known for being very conservative...) are skeptical of this story. Makes me somewhat hopeful that there are pseudo-journalists out there willing to at least think before they jump on the bandwagon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=479&v=aGit-XltUB4
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 142):
Now why the hell would you do that

because you can.

Same reason why people climb up mountains.



best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15867
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 132):
The teacher only found out about it because it happened to beep in the middle of class

After showing it off in other classes.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 133):
The more information comes out, the more it appears this was nothing more than a work of agit-prop

  

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 137):
Couldn't you find anymore right wing sources?

How about a left-leaning one like Bill Maher, coupled with Mark Cuban AND Chris "Tingles" Matthews?
http://youtu.be/aGit-XltUB4

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 142):
All the kid did is take an old alarm clock, disassemble it from the case and stick it inside a briefcase. Now why the hell would you do that if not just to cause a stir? Does it make it more practical as an alarm clock? No it does not.

  

I'm so unbelievably thankful that someone gets this.

[Edited 2015-09-20 14:38:42]
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 144):
How about a left-leaning one like Bill Maher,

I guess you did miss that he confirmes it was because of religion? I have the feeling he even missed it himself.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15867
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 145):
I guess you did miss that he confirmes it was because of religion?

Which isn't a race.

But you probably missed where he pointed out it looks a helluva lot like a bomb, and where even Mark Cuban said this kid was being coached.

Or, more likely, you chose to overlook that.

Eh, details...   
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 146):
But you probably missed where he pointed out it looks a helluva lot like a bomb,

he is a comedian.... he went for a cheap joke.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 146):
and where even Mark Cuban said this kid was being coached.

nothing unusual about that.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 146):
Or, more likely, you chose to overlook that.

Nah, it is just irrelevant. I had 17 year old kids that brought their parents along for job interviews and where surprised that they couldn't sit in....

Best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15867
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:34 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 147):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 146):and where even Mark Cuban said this kid was being coached.

nothing unusual about that.

Kiss the last of your credibility goodbye.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Muslim Teen Creates Clock Shows Teachers Arrested

Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 142):
All the kid did is take an old alarm clock, disassemble it from the case and stick it inside a briefcase. Now why the hell would you do that if not just to cause a stir?

Because some people like to take things apart and put them back together to see how they work. That's a time honored tradition of people who have an engineering mindset.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 144):
After showing it off in other classes.

To a teacher who had expertise in the subject, yes.

-Mir

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